Why Harry's Garage Take on the UK Electric Car Market Is (Mostly) WRONG

[@Sven.Bornemark]

One wish for future videos: more focus on charging speeds. When I bought my Tesla Model 3 LR a year ago, I was concerned about its long-ish range. I have since come to realise, that charging speed on longer trips is more important than range itself. My cross country travels now look lik this: drive for 2 hours, charge for 15 minutes, drive for 2 hours, charge for 15 minutes etc etc. Those 15 minute breaks also include short walks, and when I reach my destination, I feel more refreshed than after long journeys in my previous cars.

[@Paul.Woodcraft]

I agree my standard range Model Y has less battery and slower charging than yours, but I still struggle to take a comfort break and return to the car on a supercharger. If slower chargers were the same cost, rather than more expensive than Teslas's, there are times I would have preferred them rather than rush.

[@johnmackay7789]

I can't believe i watched that all the way through, I usually watch Harry's videos but haven't got around to viewing the one you refer to , but still some great explaining and clarification there. TBH I'm one of those that is using battery degradation along with fire hazards as a reason in my hesitation to buy an ev, even though i think it will suit our lifestyle very well and think the technology is excellent. However never been convinced with a hybrid as i dont get the idea of a car hauling everything around and in essence doubling the possible areas of things to go wrong, added to that what's the point in a small battery and motor pushing around a dead weight of an engine,gearbox, etc for 30-40 miles? To me its simple , i either run an ICE car or an EV. Thats what i can't decide on. Ive been enjoying you posts on both channels recently, keep it up.

[@pqvid]

No reason to be worried in both cases, actually. For the battery degradation, there's been a lot of high mileage cars with the degradation figures, just look it up. The same table from Bjørn Nyland that Harry was referring - just look at the source. There's only a few models with high degradation numbers, and know what is common among them? They lack a proper battery cooling and heating system. That's it. The batteries don't like cold and they don't like hot. They also degrade (a small bit) with every cycle. But in comparison with your smartphone that runs a full cycle from almost 0% to 100% and back down to 0% in a single day, a car with a range of, say, 300 miles will need to drive 300 miles to empty the battery. So when your smartphone lacks a bit of the original battery capacity after 2 years (700 cycles), a car will be at 21000 miles already. And again, with proper battery management, heating and cooling, the EV battery can really not be compared to a smartphone battery. My 2019 Model 3 lost about 3% over the first year, then another 2% over the second year, and now it sits there at 5-6% degradation, with 70000km and 5 years old. I see no reason to be worried. As to the fire hazard - well, again, do a bit more research, there are plenty of evidence, but also firefighters courses, teaching how to deal with such fires. Basically, the worst part of a modern car is plastic. And it's the same amount of plastic in both. As to the potential of battery exploding - it's very, very limited. And believe me, you won't be better off if your gas tank explodes. So yes, there's some potential danger in both ICE and BEV. Which one is prone to fire? It's clearly ICE, look up the statistics. So please go ahead and try how EV will work for you. Maybe you can rent for a month or two, to play safe. My friends switch one by one over time, and they come back to me with the same phrase: "I have only one regret regarding EVs - why didn't I listen to you earlier?"

[@johnmackay7789]

@@pqvid thanks very much for your reply 👌👌

[@MartinKarel]

Thanks for making it to the end! 🙌 (Didn't expect many people to do.) As suggested, I would recommend trying one for a week or speaking to owners to see what they actually think about running one. Just like ICE cars, not EVs are equal but with how far they have come they will generally suit the vast majority of use cases.

[@Joe-lb8qn]

battery degradation was a thing with the earliest EVs especially the Leaf. Its not really a thing any more with newer chemistries (especially LFP) and this is reflected in much longer guarantees. Kia (for example) dont give an 8 year battery warranty because they think the battery will only last a short while. Evs have roughly 1/10th the risk of a fire as ICE. Just google it, numerous studies for example Sweden did a massiev study. Certainly battery fires, if they start, are harder to put out but they also give you time to get out of the car unlike exploding petrol tanks etc . On which subject, how many ICE cars (which i presuem you think theres a low risk of combustion by what you posted?) do you think accidentally catch fire in the UK every day. Notr from arson, just from faults. Give your best guess. Its 100. Every day. Yet you almost never see a picture of a car on fire in a newspaer unless its an EV. (Or its Sharon Davies Range Rover (diesel?) which just spontaneously burst into flames whilst parked outside her house).

[@st-ex8506]

I can't believe people bought an EV without doing their homework on how good (and reasonably priced) a DC fast-charging infrastructure that EV brand has access to... and then complained! Those that did bought a Tesla! The quality of the charging experience is definitely a most important attribute of an EV. I had to queue before a Supercharger only once, and only for 5 mn, in nearly 5 years and 90'000+ miles... and that was in the very first months of ownership, when the Supercharger network was still in its infancy.

[@CerveloS5rider]

If anyone asks what the range is or how long it takes to charge my model Y I just say range better than my bladder, charges quicker than Costa can make me a coffee.

[@simplygregsterev]

This is what my wife and I tell people!

[@pieceofhamvr6631]

Well Martin. Well done. Very well explained and documented. We have a petrol a diesel and an EV in the household for the last almost 3 years. The Ev was used for 40 thousand miles in these three years , the other two for 10 thousand miles. Next car is going to be electric as well…The other are history

[@mintyedinburgh5570]

the other huge difference between the PCP quotes is the APR interest rate for the diesel vehicle is 5.9% versus 9.5% for the hybrids! More incentive from JLR to sell diesels if you ask me.... and not mentioned on Harry's Garage video either!

[@MartinKarel]

Yep. But didn’t even attempt to open that can of worms. 😅

[@jonathantaylor1998]

Yep... I saw that too on Harry's video numbers - as I was then exposing that to some 'online keyboard warrior' who'd pitched Harry's video as 'the reason EVs aren't selling' on another You Tube channel...!

[@peterf03]

Excellent video Martin. I saw the video in question as presented by Harry Metcalfe. I thought that he spun a disappointingly anti-EV mis-representation from the point of view of a wealthy old man, who relies on the goodwill of ICE auto manufacturers, Big Oil, their suppliers & allied interests to maintain his lifestyle & hobbies, and really doesn't care a whole lot for the environment he will leave behind for future generations. Harry concerned himself more with the politics than the physics of the situation.

[@MartinKarel]

I personally wouldn't go as far. I do think it was based on his experience, but the problem is most of his (quite impressive) knowledge is from the ICE-era and it doesn't really translate into the world of EVs.

[@Uchejnr]

Great video Martin. The key thing I got from this is education. It seems a lot of noise around ev’s are coming from those who aren’t educated on it and have not experienced it enough.

[@turbolevo8703]

You sound like you prefer re education camps.

[@61mja]

Great video, we need more this! Im a long time subscriber to Harry’s Garage and commented on the video in question. Whilst I made some of the same general points that you have made here, you have done an outstanding and thorough analysis based response. All without ranting and getting into confirmation bias of your own.

[@simplygregsterev]

Finally someone called it out! Its hard to take harry seriously these days when he spends 200k a year to keep his cars going, uses £12L synthetic fuel, rubs shoulders with rich classic car owners and then grumbles about “AC charging loses” How will he ever recover financially from that! He has basically become that Tory uncle that comes over for dinner and blames everything on young people not working hard enough… While living in an Ivory tower and spending time in a yacht in southern france

[@cotswoldphotographers]

Don’t get me wrong I’m on side of EV and we run both a mini electric and a family diesel for our long journeys which works brilliantly for us. However, I agree with Harry and his choice and at then end of the day you have to look at the figures. I know you can’t buy like for like on the RR sport but it’s only a cosmetic difference. If you put both cars into the configurator with exactly the same deposit over 49 months you save over £400 month, that equates to nearly £20,000 over 49 months and then add that to the option to buy cost is a difference of £28,000! For me it’s a case of simple economics and I’d buy the diesel as well. I’d rather buy the hybrid but it doesn’t make financial sense.

[@MartinKarel]

Yes, sorry if this didn't come across. Like I mentioned, I have no problem with him buying what he got. It just changes the narrative from "nobody wants EV and the market has no future" to "I like Range Rovers and looks what an amazing deal you can get on the diesel version" (which has nothing to do with depreciation because that's actually better on the PHEV).

[@cotswoldphotographers]

@@MartinKarel I agree with you it is just silly that it’s so much cheaper to buy a diesel and believe this is where things have to change because even if you take into account a better depreciation you’re never going to erode £28k

[@somewhat-similar]

I would like to see the "topic for another video" you mentioned, on battery degradation! I got a bit confused, since your brief comment in response to battery degradation was "we absolutely can see that number" (and you even showed it), but then your explanation made it clear that this number isn't really that number which people expect that it is; you can't know the real capacity without a full discharge test. I think this was Harry's original point, but you did say it's more complicated than that, and I would love to learn more!

[@MartinKarel]

I see. Sorry for not explaining it the best - it's basically a topic for another hour long video and has mostly to do with every manufacturer tackling the problem differently. But in general, EV batteries tend to have hidden top and bottom buffers as li-ion batteries do not like to sit fully charged / completely drained. To compensate for the loss in total capacity, some manufacturers reduce the size of the buffers over time, meaning the user still experiences the same range yet the battery has aged in the background. And some calculate the SoH based on the usable capacity whereas others based on the complete battery pack data. Lastly, yes, these are estimates. I have personally seen them fluctuate slightly for example depending on the battery temperature and state of charge, but with how good battery management systems have gotten, this is quite minimal. Hence, if you want an absolutely "scientifically" accurate number you need to do the discharge test, but for most of us, the estimate is more than accurate enough. For example, I personally wouldn't go for a particular car over a different example just because the SoH is higher by 2%, as that is within the margin of error and is practically imperceivable in the real-world, but if there is a massive difference (especially just for one vehicle in a large sample of similar age / mileage) that would indicate that something has actually gone wrong in the battery. Hope this helps. 😊

[@johnbb99]

@@MartinKarel Like Somewhat-similar, I found that bit to appear contradictory, but I think I've 'got it' now. But please do make a video on degradation, it would be most valuable. :)

[@f3rr31r4]

You're comparing horsepower of a Passat and a model 3 as if that's the criteria for a Passat owner. The entire video is a desperate coping to Harry's review of real life.

[@jonathantaylor1998]

Hey Martin. I am genuinely SO chuffed you called Harry out over his 'old-curmudgeon' rant - he's old-school... you're current. 😉 Couple of things to say: 1. Your house décor is lovely - good job, dude. 👍 2. "...pee in a bottle..." on a 700 mile road trip - hilarious...!🤣 Yet there are SO many ICE owners out there who rant on about "I'm never buying an EV until it can do 800 miles on a full tank, just like my diesel Audi..." yet never seem to acknowledge that they'll stop 2 or 3 times during such a journey and just leave their car sitting idle in the service station car park whilst they take their 30 minute comfort breaks. Like I often reply to such rants - it's just a different mind-set... you plug your car in to a rapid, THEN go have your pee... 3. The hydrogen numbers were interesting - I've not seen them set out that way. Again, in reply to such "hydrogen's the way forward" comments, I've used the following figures: it takes an average of 48kWh of electricity to make 1kg of hydrogen fuel, enough to power a FCEV between 30-60 miles (depending on its fuel cell efficiency) vs 168 miles for an averagely-efficient (3.5 miles/kWh) EV. It's honestly a no-brainer, really... 4. Finally, the 7% global emissions argument - my reason for going electric was to help reduce the ever-worsening local air quality in our towns and cities, which, in my humble opinion, would be the biggest 'win' if everyone was able to run an EV (remember just how clean the air was during the UK's Covid-19 lockdown when no one was allowed to drive?) After all, no parent would consciously choose to walk in the shoes of Rosamund Kissi-Debrah, would they...? 😔

[@MartinKarel]

Thank you very much! I will pass the lovely remarks about the decoration to my flatmate who was entirely in charge of that.

[@mnoovurvi]

Buddy, the point of "i need 800 mile range" is not that you drive 800 miles at a time. It's that it will give you a decent amount of USEABLE range. An 800 mile useable range will be 1000+ mile official range. Yes, you do stop more often in an ICE. But you also stop wherever you want for however long you want. You can also not stop if needed. It's a choice, not a necessity.

[@darrenprior6339]

I've been watching Harry's Garage for years and before that religiously subscribed to his EVO magazine for an even longer amount of time. The guy knows his stuff. And he is also not-anti EV. I think you'll find that 1) He finds EV's boring to drive and 2) Useless at towing. As he stated many times he needs a vehicle that can tow without running out of juice. The other issues he has raised in previous videos is no one really knows how healthy an EV battery is. EG: An EV with 50,000 miles on it that has been charged only at home (not on a supercharger) and hasn't been subjected to extreme temperatures is going to be in better shape than, say, an EV battery with 20,000 miles that has been charged on a supercharger all its life, and in extreme heat or cold. Hence why EV values are plummeting. The dealers don't know how to value them. As a result the rapid depreciation affects running costs in a big way. Anyone familiar with a Porsche Taycan will attest to the plummeting values right now. Ultimately, after many years of motoring experience, combined with farming needs, Harry sensibly concluded that an EV is not appropriate for his needs. Good on him.

[@bustex1]

So you think the huge depreciation is caused by EV battery degradation playing the biggest factor in it?

[@darrenprior6339]

@@bustex1 Potentially. I certainly am not interested in buying a second hand car if I have no true idea of how big the ever-shrinking fuel tank actually is.

[@bustex1]

@@darrenprior6339 lmao ever shrinking fuel tank. Yea the 1-2% lost per year is massive….

[@darrenprior6339]

@@bustex1 Cute but no. I owned a M3P and it lost 10% after the first year and another 6% the year after. Really not interested in your rhetoric. Ask your average Kia or Hyundai owner in 5 years how theirs is going. Keep dreaming about your 1-2% 🤡, and BTW: The claimed figures are lies you can never achieve unless you drop the car from a cliff, especially if most of your miles are freeway or highway.

[@bustex1]

@@darrenprior6339 got a MY and not experiencing that at all

[@Sven.Bornemark]

Boy, I actually spent one full hour watching this video. It's that great! ♥ I love the way you explain things, the clarity, and the fact when you know when to stop digging into finest of details to keep up the interest for us viewers. Brilliant! I will gladly follow your channel and I'm looking forward to your upcoming videos. Thank you! 😊👍

[@timoliver8940]

Martin which OBD dongle / phone and software do you use in your Mini? I have a 2022 Mini Cooper S E L3 and have tried 2 dongles (vLinker BM+ and ELM) and CarScanner app for IOS on a 3rd gen IPhone SE and the app shows it cannot connect to either dongle……. I stayed to the bitter end of the video - great content and comments on Harry’s video. I run a 2023 Land Rover Defender 90 D250 as well as my Mini EV. It’s a great combination as the Defender does the offroad stuff (there are so far no viable offroadable EV’s, not even the Munro, that can do it like my Defender does) and towing, Mini does the 32 miles round trip to the nearest supermarket and local short trips. Just to go to the local nearest supermarket the Mini (that has really good efficiency of around 3.5 -4.5 miles/kWh depending on the weather) costs 80p in the Mini compared to just over £7 at current diesel prices for the Defender.

[@MartinKarel]

The dongle is the OBD Link MX+ which works through Bluetooth and the app I use is called mi3. It's technically intended for the BMW i3, but with the electronics architecture being pretty much identical in the MINI, it works without any problems. Daily EV + niche ICE is a very good combination for now and at least lets you explore the situation of living with a plug-in car. Maybe keep an eye out for the Rivians with the rumours of a potential UK launch very soon? 😉

[@timoliver8940]

@@MartinKarel thanks for the dingle and app info I had a reservation on a Rivian R1T but they returned it saying that at that time they weren’t intending RHD. I saw one at the Fully Charged Show in Harrogate and it’s too big for many of the roads around here………….. the Ford F150 Lightening parked next door made the Rivian look dinky! When the PCP end on my Mini I’ll either go for the Tesla Model 2 or a Fisker Ocean Sport or PEAR as I will still have the Defender 90 in 2025 when the Mini’s PCP ends (I own the Defender outright). Looks like the Rivian R2S might be a good replacement for the Mini and the Defender.

[@andrewcooper1832]

Harry is spot in... I have a fleet if 54 vehicles... 9 are EV... 3 tesla.. the Tesla are good major issue with lack of fast charging in London. The other ev we have bmw are useless and awful, expensive and range is 2 thirds claimed as business use they are useless. EV vans awful range once loaded my commercial need to do 35k miles per year fully loaded... Harry is not sneaky... he's best reviwer on you tube

[@grahamwoodier5066]

My MINI Electric is a great local runabout fuelled by low-cost overnight electricity in winter and solar in summer however if you want to travel more than 50 miles from home it becomes both inconvenient and expensive. Your experience of driving up and down the UK from London might be acceptable but many of my journeys involve East-West or North/mid-Wales trips where the charging options are much reduced. Whilst I really want to swap my other car (a diesel) for an EV I have decided to delay this move until the infrastructure situation improves. Good video though - if a bit long.

[@leelittle1325]

Thanks Martin, that was a well structured and informative counter point to Harry’s video. I suspect there is a lot of “fear of the unknown” going on, but this is just a shift in technology and at this point we are moving from early adopters into mass market, so there will always be some pushback. As you say, the best products will have had more development cycles. These will bring more efficiency and less reliance on battery size and people will stop trying to compare them with ICE products and begin considering EVs in their own right…

[@michaelridley2864]

Thanks, excellent video and great use of evidence and insight to respond to some of the points in Harry's video. Always good to disagree agreeably as well rather than getting into a shouting match. On the issues around degradation, it would be useful to have other more recent studies that replicated the findings from the Nissan leaf study in relation to the long term effects of DC vs AC charging for other models with more advanced battery management. Do you know of any? In relation to degradation I look forward to your promised video. But I'm not sure that you are being completely consistent arguing on the one hand that the state of health figure is widely available via an OBD device, and on the other hand saying that battery health is a really complicated thing that can only be measured via a proper discharge test. Even where there is a SoH figure available (and it's not something I have been able to find on my MEB based model) then it seems quite opaque as to how that figure is derived, or whether that is consistent between different manufacturers or models. But my own view is that even if people selling EVs don't worry about it, the problem for consumers is that anecdotes (and of course a lot of FUD) around battery degradation is filling the void and probably not helping get us to a well functioning market....

[@craighudson6684]

Really informative video. Ref the charging infrastructure challenge. In the late 80’s and early 90’s the step change in the fuel market was Supermarkets adding petrol stations to their supermarkets. Clearly over time these will become redundant but are the obvious choice to repurpose to charging. The economics of the Supermarkets has changed and so they may not see the investment as viable. But perhaps partnering with energy companies. Why not a chain of Octopus charging stations at Supermarkets across the country?

[@MartinKarel]

Many supermarkets have started putting in rapid chargers. Tesco partnered up with Pod Point, Waitrose with Shell Recharge, and Sainsbury's came out of nowhere with a very impressive rollout of their in-house Smart Charge brand, so I am confident we will eventually get there.

[@nicklov1]

A really interesting video Martin, though I am a little surprised that you didn’t mention new battery technology. The speed of development in better battery technology is simply gobsmacking! I run a little electric car in Finland where, as you well know, temperatures in winter stay into -celcius conditions for months. Now there is new sodium battery technology that doesn’t degrade in temperatures up to -20C! The technology is there, the batteries will be built and for countries like Finland this will be a complete game changer! Perhaps a new video from you explaining the astronomical speed of new battery technology will help to get people to understand that ev’s are the only answer to help in reducing emissions. (For now).

[@mikejoseph425]

Very interesting and powerfully presented and you are talented, and in the big picture I don’t doubt that are you are correct, but as an ev owner for over 5 years benefiting from 99% home charging @ 7.5p kW, it does not make up for the depreciation from £72k to £16k depreciation over 5 years I have enjoyed the car immensely so why am I selling. Battery failure not degradation is becoming a very common problem and even though this is covered by warranty. Dealer takes the car in to his workshop. 3 weeks before they can investigate. 3 months for the part to arrive, though strangely they have enough for the production run. Then the bonding on the front window starts to break down and water gets in. The re-bonding/replacement is not covered because you are out of standard 3 year warrantee, and even if you have “manufacturers annual extended £800p.a. warrantee, it does not cover water ingress or more importantly issues related to electronics damage caused by water ingress. So I’m buying your critiqued Toyota Plug in Hybrid which is a double Hybrid as you have 30-40 range pure electric and then 50-60 mpg self charged electric. And you know what; 10 years warrantee on the car, 15 years on the batteries So as I say in the big picture you are probably correct, but from my experience does not gel for me. By the away my wife’s Toyota Hybrid cost £30k 6 years ago is still worth £15k+

[@michaelgoode9555]

I have drifted away from Harry's Garage. He is stuck in the past.

[@grandtourerpt]

He still thinks hydrogen and e-fuels are the future. Hydrogen is dead, e-fuels will be useful to keep classics going, but that's it.

[@MartinKarel]

It’s such a shame because he obviously has a massive following, is very well spoken (much better than most of will ever be), and is quite open to EVs but I wish he would do a bit more research before making such blanket statements.

[@TheWinstn60]

@@MartinKarel He's a dinosaur and I'm probably older than him

[@itspart]

Thank you for your great video. You have convinced me to never buy an EV.... 😊

[@MartinKarel]

And what specifically made you come to that conclusion?

[@johnbb99]

Huh?

[@steveearley8352]

Thank you for this. I watched Harry’s video and was surprised at the BS coming out. Normally he’s a sane voice. My thoughts are that he’s been pressurised into this as it was a real ramble - I wonder if he’s really comfortable with what he did. Hopefully not. Also learned a lot from you, so thanks a second time. Your channel as with Wisely, Symmons, and Bjorn have been on my radar for a few years and I’m now an EV owner. It just makes sense 👍🏼

[@babyphat8965]

Harry featured a lot of EV on his channel because he actually tried to love them. But between roadtrips, having fun at B-road, towing stuff, etc., it's just make sense that he can't live with EV.

[@maygarland6123]

Brilliant Video, very well thought through and did surprise me how Harry had such poor journalism

[@steve-zschannel2729]

Reducing the carbon footprint of passenger cars may not make a huge difference globally but going electric makes a big difference in reducing pollution and improving air quality with its obvious health benefits.

[@wernerengel4919]

Good review Martin. I’m older than Harry but all in on electrification.

[@arthurking2614]

Let people decide the type of car they wish. Letting politicians create regulations on banning sales of one tyoe while giving taxpayers money support to another type makes fools of us all. Now if EVs are as good as seem claimed their unaided sales would be reflecting that. Note I am not an used EV salesperson.

[@philtaylor1672]

Great video you covered some great points what i am concerned about as i am considering an ev form my next car

[@maxflight777]

*Harry Metcalfe judges all EV’s by his experience with the “polished turds” BMW serve up* If Harry took his wife on a European trip in a Model X, Model S Plaid or perhaps a modest Model Y Performance. He would be astonished. *I won’t hold my breath*

[@matthewgodwin3050]

Harry did have a Tesla something or other on long term test, and he did an excellent review of it. He's also done countless road tests on several battery operated cars, from a number of different manufacturers. The Tesla Model S Plaid isn't available in the UK, so he's unlikely to get one for a roadtrip. Not that you need to drive one to know that it's a fire prone death trap that only an idiot would waste their money on.

[@MatthiasDuyck]

Would love to see that video on SOH/range losses discussion.

[@doomsday9973]

Excellent rebuttal video Martin well done!

[@fenegroni]

Amazing video. This channel really deserves more followers.

[@maxflight777]

Well done Martin ! ✅✅

[@antonymcneillis]

Great rebuttal and well balanced analysis.

[@fenegroni]

Next time I’m in London I’m popping in to visit. Name your gift!

[@MartinKarel]

I will take one of those heavily depreciated Taycans pretty please. 🤪

[@fenegroni]

@@MartinKarel I’ll see what I can do 😅

[@passonful]

Thank you very interesting information and good to have researched facts presented rather than anecdotal stuff

[@tubistify]

Your figures at the end of the video are spurious. You talk only about the usage after manufacture while actually driving the car. The manufacturing usage of energy is considerably more for EVs and their batteries than ICE cars. Battery manufacture energy and minerals use is phenomenal for EVs. Then you have the end of life disposal of the battery. That could well become a larger issue than the end of life issue for nuclear fuels. We're going to have to find ways of disposing of them which have yet to be invented.

[@Nexus6Variant]

I found this interesting and factual, I’m really looking forward to the future of ev’s when there is a breakthrough in battery tech that reduces weight and cost.

[@pqvid]

There's actually quite an amount of hype about "the next generation battery" created by the outsiders on the market, to achieve exactly that behavior - "Oh, it's too early now, and I've read in the paper there's this new super technology that's going to change everything in cars, so I'll wait or buy a combustion car for now". If you look it up, Toyota has been announcing for years that they're immediately before launching a new kind of battery. And then the same story repeats a year later. And a year later. And again... If you don't have anything to compete, you keep promising a technological breakthrough, to scare off the people and make them wait. The battery technology didn't start with EVs, it's been evolving for years and years. The smartphone market is probably way larger than the current EV market. So the drive for battery technology has been huge, for long time. But for the moment, the improvements are more evolution than revolution. Yes, maybe the next generation of battery will deliver 10% more capacity and 10% more charging speed. But one generation ICE vehicle was also good 10% more economical than the other?.. So would you say "I'll skip another 3 generations of cars, until the next one is 30% more economical than my current one?" My strategy is simple: if you need a new car and an EV fits your usage, go buy one. If you're happy with your current one, keep it. If you evaluate an EV and it really doesn't fit your use case - well then, buy an ICE and be assured that you at least tried. But don't buy an ICE car just because you wait for a technology breakthrough. There's not a single one approaching, it's all just empty hype.

[@Nexus6Variant]

I agree with all that, I wasn’t saying I was waiting for a battery breakthrough to buy, I will be buying a used (18 month old) MINI SE towards the end of the year as the depreciation is pretty epic and the range fits our needs as a second car to our ICE vehicle. I was just saying that when the energy density and weight drops it will allow for an epic selection of electric vehicles. I really don’t like the weight of EV’s.

[@pqvid]

@@Nexus6Variant True, there's some bright future ahead, but no need to wait. I only hear brilliant reviews of the Mini SE, and looking at the new one - it will have a larger battery, yes, but the interior is a disappointment. So I believe that's a smart move to go for a nicely depreciated, almost-new one. Good luck!

[@MartinKarel]

There is always talk of a "breakthrough" in the battery world, but what I think we will realistically see is more of a gradual improvement to energy density, charging rates, prices, etc. rather than a massive jump. By the way, there are already some EVs which are very light or at least on par with their ICE equivalents - the BMW i3 and the Tesla Model 3 come to mind.

[@johnbb99]

@@Nexus6Variant You'll find that in most cases EV versions are about 100kg heavier than an ICE same model. But eg a Renault Clio as put on 300Kg in 30 years...

[@bitmanev4331]

Oh dear oh dear Martin... you opened a can of worms 😃 This is boys racers UK don't forget that. You probably talking mostly against a concrete wall I'm afraid. Keep up your great video's!!

[@vladimirkarel6111]

you need courage and technical knowledge to open a can of worms...fingers crossed Martin

[@st-ex8506]

Correct! But let me remind you that, over a century after having lost any role in transportation, horses are still being raced! But that is perfectly OK, every disruptive market has its early-adopters and laggards at both ends of the adoption curve. What is not OK is to disinform the general public, and we are in the midst of a worldwide, rabid EV disinformation campaign. Kudos to Martin for staightening up a few facts!

[@Soulboy63]

Intelligent video

[@matthewgodwin3050]

Every Tesla vehicle has been sold at a substantial loss. The Tesla car division has never made a single profit on any vehicle sold. Vacuous Elon only scrapes by from selling green credits to other vehicle manufacturers.

[@MartinKarel]

Tesla had a total revenue of $25.2B in Q4 2023. Automotive credits made $433M of that, in fact a 7.3% decrease YoY. Even after all the costs, it's a small part of the $7.9B of the net income. Don't know where you got this idea from, but Tesla has actually been at the forefront of maintaining very high margins in the auto industry - profit margin per car in 2023 was $8,279, whereas the mainstream manufacturers like Toyota, VW, GM, etc. are around the $1,000 to $2,000 mark at best. 🤷‍♂️

[@matthewgodwin3050]

@@MartinKarel No Martin, it hasn't. Go and do some actual research, instead of insulting our intelligence. Check out a 4 part series of videos on Elon musk and Tesla by Auto Expert John Cadogan on his KZbin channel. You might just learn something.

[@gd1531]

You come across as very biased; if you work for an EV sales company, not a surprise. Still subscribed to the channel though. Like to hear more from you. What is going on is whether the private motor car has a future at all. It is a technology from 130yrs ago, and relied, like lots of things at the time, by originally borrowing from the environment around it. That issue still applies; the proof of this being the increasing integration of the live data from vehicles into the wider System. ADAS and all that handing over control to the machine. Modern cars are no longer at all private to you. and your usage of it. Yet the first acceptance of the private car was freedom from the train timetable. Motor cars and society, never has been a happy mix, and so it continues. Toad of Toad Hall.

[@jojosthlm]

The utopia of no production of petrol and diesel cars after 2035 will never happen. There is not that demand for EVs and not enough material to make that transition. Harry is a man of great wisdom and character. EVs cannot replace the ICE cars, they can only work as a complement.

[@MartinKarel]

Ah. Where do I even start... 🤦‍♂️ Which material is there not enough of? And how much do we need?

[@mrassaboutface]

Have you thought about running for PM ?

[@SH-pg1wo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWi8oGeCpdCmja8 Does he have a point? It does seem the same cars are the same price on your forecourt. Is this just the vehicle or a trend?

[@AndyAshworth-h6w]

bad video to link to the ev driver broke his own rule and took a different route, older video though fairer test:kzbin.info/www/bejne/iau9ioV8j7qVpJI

[@FoxInClogs]

I stopped watching Harry's video after a few minutes when he first posted it. He came over as a bloke who was desperately trying to justify his decision to himself. As someone who's never bought or leased a new car, I just kept asking myself "really!?" when he was banging on about his decision being primarily based on financial logic. - Do you really need to drive such an expensive status symbol if you find it so expensive? - Do you really need to buy (or lease) new? To me, it makes more financial sense to buy young secondhand. I'm guessing that he could have bought a two or three year old car that could pull his horse box (or whatever it is) for the money he put down as a deposit. I just checked the Kia UK website and they offer the EV9 for 785 GBP a month with a 20,000 deposit on a 3 year PCP, 10,000 miles per year. The EV9 seats 7, can pull a 2500 kg trailer and would surely be cheaper to run than a diesel, mostly charging at home.

[@charleshall7033]

Right on target Martin, I love Harry but it's been clear that he doesn't quite "get" EVs. This last video proves it. Keep up the good work and don't forget to make that "driving impression" video on the Mini.

[@vailydragon]

Harry is not sneaky. As you suggested, I will tune in 2035 to view my potential options then. Hate being forced, especially by governments, to do anything. Maybe we will start to look like Cuba!!

[@smc812]

If you hate being forced, why are you going to wait until 2035 ? Sounds like you need to be forced. I also don't think anyone is forced to own EVs in Cuba.

[@vailydragon]

@@smc812 You miss understood. I drive the ice car I have always wanted. The Cubans generally drive very old cars due to imposed import restrictions. If they stop us buying ICE cars, so will a lot of us. When the time is right for the Mrs, we may by an EV, as we can always charge it at home once every 1 or 2 weeks. We travel back + forth to the south of Spain from Bilbao. Currently infrastructure there is yet to be properly invested in. So, an EV, currently in Spain have mostly German number plates. Reality is the EU are sliding back the rules. It is not going so well - Lets see!

[@smc812]

@@vailydragon It's 11 years until 2035, there will be lots of infrastructure by then. Even today when I plan a route from Bilbao to Malaga there's hundreds of places to charge and it would take 3x20 minute stops in an 8 hour drive, I bet it's far better than you imagine.

[@vailydragon]

@@smc812 Admittedly I am not looking. EV's generally are rarely seen in Estepona or along that coast line. Take your word for it.

[@vailydragon]

@@smc812 You are right - Never needed to look. There are two at a mates golf course. Membership dominated by Germans and Swedes - Makes sense!

[@metallicbeast]

You look exactly like a person who would drive an EV. Do you take your coffee with soy milk or almond milk?

[@MartinKarel]

Actually am more of an oat milk kinda person.

[@metallicbeast]

@@MartinKarel hats off to your sense of humor sir

[@anthonykempton1414]

Vehicle manufacturers make no money on £30k products. 80% of the population cannot afford this level.

[@MartinKarel]

This is true and it's the reason behind all manufacturers trying to go upmarket. However, I think the new Chinese brands will really shuffle the cards, especially in the world of EVs.

[@Gadgetlava]

@@MartinKarel Unfortunately i think tarriffs will impact chinese brands eroding their price advantage bringing them inline with the european counterparts

[@marklatjes7829]

Harry is never wrong, electric cars are horrific

[@mollyfilms]

Harry is a petrol head a bit like Mr Bean. It’s funny that these two have dissed EV’s which is a little bit like Trump dissing NATO.

[@rodwhitley3257]

Harry is also a multi millionaire so dont think hes gone wrong too often and only reason trump dissed nato is because america was paying its way while others werent but expected america to pic up the slack when it came to defence

[@tubistify]

If you can listen to this entire video then maybe, congratulations, you are a nerd and EVs are for you. 😆 Most of us just need to put 'fuel' in our cars and drive from A to B knowing the exact amount we have remaining. ICE cars do this for us. With EVs you need to know the battery capacity, health, efficiency, etc. They will also magically lose 'fuel' while stood still for a week or so after parking the car at an airport. That could be the least of your concern though as battery fires while parked at airports are mysteriously becoming more prevalent.

[@MartinKarel]

How is the detail of EV technicalities different from an ICE? Direct vs port fuel injection? Turbo vs supercharger? Revving a cold engine? Watching oil consumption? DPF and EGR problems? The list goes on. What you are saying is that you are used to a combustion engine and find it simple. But for most people, plugging in a car when they get home and having it ready in the morning is about as simple as it gets. Also, you will be glad to hear EVs do not lose charge when they are parked for weeks. 🙃

[@kevinnicholson7722]

interesting but you are an evangelist working for an electric car sales company. Harry Metcalfe is more independent

[@dusty3194]

The evs would be only worth for me if the battery are able to be replaced or even better upgraded down the road until that technology is not available I'm not ever going to buy one.

[@smc812]

All EVs have batteries that are able to be replaced, not sure what your point is.

[@st-ex8506]

I suppose you are referring to battery swapping. It has been tried before (Tesla, Renault, ...) and discarded. Nio is presently doing it, but with very ,mixed result I hear (no personal experience). What is fact is: -A battery-swapping station is much much more capital intensive than even a full row of superchargers. So, battery swapping is and will be more expensive than fast-charging. - It is limited to a single brand of EV... and possibly other brands using the exact same battery geometry and connections. - A "swappable" battery means that it can't be structural, hence impacting negatively and significantly the weight of the vehicle. I have 5 years of experience with a Tesla Model 3, and fast-charging it is just a flawless, painless and reasonably priced experience. I understand that it might be different with other brands who do not control that indispensable part of their products' value-added package.

[@MartinKarel]

You will be glad to know then that the time is now! 😁

[@adairjanney7109]

EVs are a waste of time, the only idea that is good is hybrid but even that isnt really doable at scale

[@st-ex8506]

I am afraid every fact, every statistics, every EV owner, .... disagree with your statement!

[@adairjanney7109]

@@st-ex8506 You don't even know what I was talking about, Listen child, if your Utopia were even possible it would take more resources than are currently even possible to come online, its a FANTASY even people on your side the hardcore know the truth see Michael Moores planet of the humans you cannot replace industrialized society with industrialized society