Why Has the West Been so Successful? - a Response to PragerU (and Ben Shapiro)

I fucking hate arguing history. There's so much subtle misinformation in these videos I can't call it all out because I lack the education to identity it all.
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[@54tisfaction]

The question 500 years ago: Why has the Turks Been so Successful? The question 800 years ago: Why has the Mongols Been so Successful? The question 1000 years ago: Why has the Muslims been so Successful? The question 1500 years ago: Why has the Romans Been so Successful? The question 2000 years ago: Why has the Greeks Been so Successful? The question 2500 years ago: Why has the Persians Been so Successful? The question 3000 years ago: Why has the Sea Peoples Been so Successful? The question 3500 years ago: Why has the Egyptians Been so Successful? The question 4000 years ago: Why has the Babylonians Been so Successful? The question 5000 years ago: Why has the Sumerians Been so Successful? The question 6000 years ago: Why has the Urukians Been so Successful? The question 8000 years ago: Why has the people who built that town over there at the river Indus been so successful? It must be the "Western" ideas...

[@TheMiningProbe]

Wow that is a really insightful comment

[@MyChevySonic]

What about China? It's been around for billions of people.

[@54tisfaction]

The Chinese are STILL asking the question "Gee, why are we just so great?"

[@A86]

Or Nubia? Or the Mali Empire?

[@54tisfaction]

@@A86 I think you get the point.

[@jackriver8385]

Benny: innovation good Also benny: progressives bad

[@jankoleon3785]

I mean despite the name progressives aren't all that progressive they're actually really regressive..

[@jankoleon3785]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYmbnHigiLqlZpY

[@drew7311]

janko leon shut up lmao

[@jankoleon3785]

@@drew7311 Not a valid argument..

[@jankoleon3785]

@NotGonnaTell MyName Well I wrote this comment really quickly but my point still stands.

[@nataliagonzalez1698]

Its funny because Ben considers judaism and christianity “western” and not Islam, which formed not too far away from that region

[@TheMrVengeance]

He literally decided that Jerusalem was "Western" too. So when it's convenient, Isreal, a country bordering Syria and (almost) Iraq and Saudi Arabia, is "Western". So when they wanna stroke their ego over how noble the West is with women's rights, they love to bash on Saudi Arabia. But when you wanna claim "Judeo-Christian heritage" the country next door to it is suddenly "Western".

[@nont18411]

@@TheMrVengeance Even though that area has been officially called "the Middle EAST"

[@El-Silver]

the distance from from jerusalem to greece is shorter than the distance from jerusalem to mecca and in a world without islam the middle east would be considered part of the west or maybe the definition of the west would not exist .

[@TheMrVengeance]

@@El-Silver - You're comparing apple to oranges. Mecca is closer to Jerusalem than Athens is, 769 miles to 780 miles. _(And Baghdad is only 550 miles away.)_ Saudi Arabia is closer than Greece is, 110 miles to 560 miles. For that matter Syria is even closer, 75 miles. On top of that Israel shares land-borders with those countries or their neighbours, there's half the Mediterranean in between them and Greece. Israel is in the Middle East.

[@El-Silver]

@@TheMrVengeance oh yeah i agree but you seem to forget the rest I wrote Jerusalem is the middle East and is surrounded by islam nation's but it was not always the case turkey or that time Asia minor was Greek and more As well as many parts of it during the time of Jesus to the Muslim conquest in 630s While Shapiro is wrong on so many levels he could argue that Jerusalem ( as the ideas of Christianity) shaped the mindset from the Byzantine empire to the west Mediterranean And the original comment said Islam originated not that far away from the region which like I mentioned it did

[@ThePi314Man]

Thomas Jefferson also advocated for having the Constitution rewritten every 19 years, otherwise federal law would be an act of force by the lawmakers of the past rather than naturally evolving as society revolves. So whenever people talk about how the Constitution shouldn't change or bring up the founding fathers, keep in mind that one of the founders himself said the law shouldn't be absolute.

[@lexort4204]

The Constitution was meant to be a living document as well.

[@Guerillatoker]

For all of Thomas' personal indiscretions, he often seems the wisest political theorist of the founding fathers, though I imagine my understanding of them is different to that of a US citizen.

[@alexis6683]

This is really interesting. Do you have any source for this so I could use it?

[@AldenBunagCDAD]

It's hilarious too because each of the laws are called AMENDMENTS but chalk it up to Conservatives for not knowing what words mean.

[@EdMcStinko]

They should have kept fucking doing that! Goddam it.

[@jancerny8109]

Before India was ruled by the British, it was one of the wealthiest societies of its time. After the Brits were through with it, it was one of the poorest. "Lifting billions out of poverty," yeah. Right.

[@リンゴ酢-b8g]

india one of the wealthiest societies lol

[@tyronechillifoot5573]

@@リンゴ酢-b8g actually yes Akbar the great was one of the wealthiest in human history Because he ruled india

[@saladcaesar7716]

True but at the same time they were kind of in the middle of the Silk Road alongside with Iran. Plus they got spices. It's desired in Rome.

[@ajiththomas2465]

@@tyronechillifoot5573 True but Akbar the Great should also be known as Akbar the Literal because he was pretty literal with the stuff he named. Make a giant door to the middle of nowhere and what does he call it? Giant Door. Makes a fort at Agra and what does he call it? Agra Fort. Hats off to you if you recognize the Vir Das reference.

[@joseph_soseph9611]

@BALD CAT India was actually the wealthiest region in the world up until britain conquered it

[@pheo4156]

one time i asked a fascist what "the west" was, and he just straight up said "white countries" which, surprised me

[@othmaneelmansouri6314]

What is even white countries? Is Tunisia white? Is Russia Western? Because it's predominantly white.

[@pheo4156]

@@othmaneelmansouri6314 if only i could tell you

[@markopasha9644]

@@pheo4156 i am a turkish person. I've been to greece several times. There is a river between turkey and greece. When you cross the river and look at the face of the villagers of either side, their skin color is the same. There is not a geographical line where "white race" or "brown race" starts. When you go to south eastern turkey, skin color gradually gets darker. But its like every village is slightly darker than the previous one. I guess this pattern continues until you reach africa. You wouldn't probably find a place when you could see the "starting point" of black "race."

[@pheo4156]

@@markopasha9644 oh yah national borders and divisions between race are bs.

[@markopasha9644]

@@pheo4156 thanks!

[@unknown-hf3jg]

Ben "just sell your underwater house" shapiro at it again with his strawman arguments.

[@CSPaffy]

You just strawmaned his argument when saying he strawmans arguments.

[@antediluvianatheist5262]

@@CSPaffy Nope. He literally said 'you can just sell your house' when people pointed out issues from rising sea levels. To whom? What idiot capitalist is going to want a flooded house? And you sure know they don't want the Gov't to pay for it.

[@CSPaffy]

The point Ben is making is not that you can sell a flooded house but that you can just move inland. Also if you think sea levels are rising that quickly than why wait to sell. Just sell now to some climate change denier.

[@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676]

@@CSPaffy He literaly said "If houses flood, you think people wont just sell those houses and move"

[@SanvelloSerapiega]

@@CSPaffy climate science denyers are politically selective. Second you cant just move because you want to. That is expensive

[@leogorgone4414]

"facts and logic, also god gave us rules with magic don't question it" - Burp Shartpyro

[@rollandc.6118]

@Cian McCabe r/wooosh

[@shmeckle666]

And if you criticized political militant Zionist Jewish supremacism than you’re a Nazi-Wazi

[@Historywithapharoah]

@Cian McCabe you are an idiot if you think you can master every scientific theory and be able to be mindful of all these things together while going about your exploits. God who is all knowing knows everything down to the most minor phenomena. We dont see the whole picture so we trust. Trust is crucial for healthy human existence.

[@douglaslangley9251]

@@Historywithapharoah Exactly...just wish God would do something about all the baby cancer he knows all about

[@drts6955]

@@Historywithapharoah Honey, an omniscient God may exist but don't be so arrogant as to think you know what he wants

[@Hakasedess]

Ben Shapiro: Every life is infinitely valuable. Also Ben Shapiro: My wife, a doctor, providing healthcare for a poor person is the single most evil idea in modern political discourse. I dunno fellas, I'm starting to think Lil' Ben isn't all that honest.

[@disk0__]

Also Ben Shapiro: _[Fires 50 Cal into Palestinian Medic’s Head]_ Now that’s pretty epic

[@nicholas045]

And when did he say that?

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Uh, no. Stealing from one person through taxation to fund healthcare for another person (rich or poor) is evil. It is theft. A doctor voluntarily either donating their labor or exchanging it for money is morally just.

[@acutechicken5798]

@@GreyWolfLeaderTW That's why everyone should work for the government. No taxation, and no one dies from lack of healthcare. Perfect compromise.

[@jesust6463]

GreyWolfLeaderTW but you don’t make the same arguments for anything else the government does. You’re trying to say taxing people so we can all live healthy and fulfilling lives is evil? You think not allowing 40,000 people to die because they can’t afford healthcare is evil? You do realize the government taxes you for almost anything. Property, sales, income. There’s nothing you can purchase or do without incurring at least some tax. You want people to die because you’d rather save 2 dollars on your taxes. Wow. But I’m the evil one.

[@anyu]

>pagans believed in a chaotic disordered universe >that was cyclical Cyclical sounds... kinda... ordered?

[@EpicWinNoob]

cyclical would be even more ordered since that would establish a pattern and patterns usually are a product of order. not always, but, often. I hardly see how something with a beginning and an uncertainly timed and consistently mis-predicted end is considered more orderly.

[@conker690]

If pagan religions commanded that the universe is random and you shouldn't bother to innovate, then why were the Athenians rational innovators?

[@noincognito1903]

"Why bother to inovate, or try anything new? Laughs in stonehenge

[@psarkar2624]

well ik in vedic philosophy time and stuff is often seen as cyclical. Not like cyclical like people make the same mistakes, but that the universe has an inherent cycle of rise and decay to it. at least to my understanding

[@conker690]

P Sarkar the vedic religion also produced a philosophical tradition that predates the Greeks and profoundly impact some part of the enlightenment, so what the hell is ben talking about? Lol.

[@plasma-5330]

"you're arguing against a mirror and you're losing" well said

[@TheLostArchangel666]

32:47 Admittedly, Norse myth *is* cyclical; Ragnarok is merely the closing of the current cycle and the starting of the next. Really, it's quite poetic.

[@larsfrisk6658]

I think its both more interesting and more satisfying as a belief than Christianity.

[@thlkmura]

It's like poetry, it rhymes.

[@kato4792]

Lars Frisk not really

[@karsten11553]

@Cian McCabe Makes sense, given that all the sagas were written down by people who were christian, based on oral traditions of their asatru forefathers (+ whatever they would choose to add.)

[@MsOdale7]

@@kato4792 that's like your opinion, man.

[@alicecarter3742]

As a transwoman, “universal human rights” is certainly something Ben Shapiro would disagree with me having rights

[@alicecarter3742]

Socialist Sylveon gosh I feel like I’ve heard those exact words before

[@larsfrisk6658]

Bencil sharpeniro? Lol

[@minivergur]

Is it bad that I read "as a transwoman" in contrapoints voice? 😬

[@BagelBagelB1]

ThatGuyOnTheInternet silence

[@wickedAberration]

@ThatGuyOnTheInternet "I believe in equal rights: I believe any man should be allowed to marry any woman, so long as they do not engage in miscegenation." A hero for civil rights everywhere

[@ThePi314Man]

Are we just gonna ignore the fact that Ben Shapiro just said flat out that religion and human reason are incompatible?

[@ThePi314Man]

@@trentonmcclintock7836 I'm just saying it's interesting coming from an Orthodox Jew to say that religion and reason are distinct.

[@lexort4204]

@@trentonmcclintock7836 Its almost as if he is "conserving" tradition for no good reason 😂

[@CSPaffy]

He did not

[@lexort4204]

@Absolute Mad Lad Chud

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

No, he did not. He said both can work together and *BOTH ARE NECESSARY* for a healthy society.

[@CenterLion]

Also this idea that “Western thought evolved giving rights to minorities and women” completely ignoring the minorities and women that fought for years for their rights

[@UploadsfortheSoul]

They also like to omit the fact that american communists were the first party to rail against segregation while the Democrats and Republicans were quite content with the status quo.

[@sandcastledx]

@@UploadsfortheSoul a broken clock is right twice a day

[@gezi5927]

@@sandcastledx it’s also funny that communists created the weekend, child labor laws, and the Underground Railroad

[@sandcastledx]

@@gezi5927 again, if you put half your population in the gulag and have to murder people to support your vision you are probably a bit blind to weigh coming up with an idea a few years before someone else as really unique and valuable

[@gezi5927]

@@sandcastledx do you think i support the USSR? I don’t because for one, they are authoritarian. I am a libertarian. Two, they aren’t communist because communism is defined as having no leaders

[@AnimalFarmDance]

and i quote he said " progressives want to take us back..." good lord this was fun to laugh at

[@RadicalReviewer]

"You are arguing against a mirror Ben, and you're losing" - Vaush Beautiful

[@imjesusdad6361]

What time frame is that at, I wanna clip it

[@RadicalReviewer]

If you open the transcript and ctrl+f and search the video for the quote you want...it's a nifty trick that has saved me hours of watching lectures or interviews to find one stupid little quote lol...this particular quote is at 38:22

[@Hotshotter3000]

I actually noticed that. Whenever I hear Ben Shapiro just give a speech I notice he is always a fucking moron.

[@eastworlduniverse]

:D This is the same thing, only slightly worse

[@JJR93]

The old Ghandi joke.....Ghandi was asked what he thought of Western Civilization....He said "it would be a good idea."

[@piedpiper6425]

@Orlaith McManus Do tell more

[@imperator692]

Ghandi would actually probably agree with these right wing "totally-not-a-nazi" guys, if you look into his time in South Africa you'll discover he was heavily in favor of discrimination against the Native Africans (Apartheid wasn't around yet). He was incredibly racist himself saying of black people that they "are troublesome, very dirty and live like animals."

[@sammylong3704]

@Orlaith McManus What benefits?

[@sammylong3704]

@Orlaith McManus Yea sure, I'd like to know how exactly did his 'prestigious education in London' help him in his fight for Indian independence (you know, the actual thing he's famous for). I'd also like to know what exactly his British imperial education taught him beyond the delusions of white Supremacy which the British indoctrinated all it's colonial subjects with? Or did you think Ghandi's racist views were a self taught revelation he came up with all by himself?

[@sammylong3704]

@Orlaith McManus So you think it was just a coincidence that Ghandi believed in the British racial hierarchy, with Whites as the superior race at the top (even above his own race), with Indians in the middle and blacks on the bottom? You think the Indian caste system was teaching Indians that the white race is superior to them 5000 years before they even saw a British person? As for his education, Ghandi was a nobody when he arrived in South Africa, nobody knew him and nobody cared, he even got thrown off a train for being thinking his money and 'education' could buy him equality. He only became famous *after* he started fighting for Indian rights, thats the only reputation that precedee him. Are you implying his 'prestigious London Education' taught him how to fight for Indian rights?.....lol. Are you implying that thousands of Indians greeted him when he arrived in India due to his skills as a London lawyer?...lol. Stop it you silly child. British Imperialism spread racist propaganda all throughout the planet. There was not a single human on earth that was not affected by their racist indoctrination, Ghandi was no excpetion.

[@Justin14523]

Big brain Shapiro defines “western civilization” as “all the good things.”

[@Underscorezeus]

Benjamin Shapenjamin: When leftists think about western culture, they always think about the worst aspects Me, a leftist, thinking about western culture: Haha I love cowboys, yeehaw pardner

[@doopydoops2064]

Giddyup pardner 👩‍🌾🤠

[@TulipQ]

Indians and Arabs are why geometry is the way it is these days. The concept of relating the characteristics of a right triangle within a circle to angles and stuff came from India to the eastern Mediterranean through the Persians and what is now Iraq. It was actually an arab shorthand for the concept that was mistranslated as meaning "cavity" or "sinus" that gave us the Latin and later English name "sine" for this relationship.

[@chadtheafricanbullfrog418]

Lostin Thegarden what the fuck are you talking about

[@TulipQ]

@@trentonmcclintock7836 I did not know Trump was a Muslim. His continuation of the USA's terrorist drone program must be a religious thing then?

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Actually, those concepts originated in Ancient Greece.

[@r-pupz7032]

I did not know that! I mean, I knew how important Arabic science and maths was but I didn't know that fact. I love it when comments give you a TIL moment rather than inducing apoplexy.

[@bonthebunnycat667]

And there was also a guy who worked with lens* and made them, he is considered the father of Optics (His name is Abdul Ali Al-Hasan or more known as Alhacen or Alhazén, his disciple also made important works.

[@katrinal353]

Ben Shapiro: "Revelation and reason live in constant tension" Also Ben Shapiro: "The rules god gave us are vital for a functioning civilisation and happy life." Golly gee, it's almost as if reason got thrown out the window for a moment there...

[@CSPaffy]

No, he believes a functioning society has a secular, ratinal government and a moral religious culture.

[@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676]

@@CSPaffy He supports Israel, a ZIONIST JEWISH STATE. That's not Seculirism that's Theocracy.

[@jankoleon3785]

@@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676 I mean Islamic countries are full theocracy he's saying there should be a healthy balance between religion and reason !!!!

[@jankoleon3785]

I mean wether or not you want to admit and this is something even Atheist admits this country was founded by Christians values in the writing's of George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams there were clear cut references to christianity it why there is in god we trust on our money but the founding fathers realized that there far more other religions to be concerned about in the future so they balance Reason and Religion they gave us the freedom of religion but never forced on anyone else it's what the pilgrims wanted..

[@kenshin4113]

How to trigger a “western chauvinist”:Tell them that Islamic civilization is part of Weaterrn Civilization.

[@unluckyone1655]

Also that Marxism is western philosophy lol. I mean the name Karl Marx, that sounds suuuper Arabic, Persian, Chinese doesnt it?

[@iz2333]

@@JohnnyBGoode-xn9mo The left is one of our greatest cultural goods and these anti western chuds want to destroy it!

[@kieran6057]

Except its not

[@KMDarve]

Oh boy that ought to ruffle some feathers :D

[@haydenzhong4341]

Isn't Islam also Judeo-Christian? Didn't they preserve a lot of ancient Roman and Greek text? I guess the Middle East is Western Civilization by that logic.

[@mohmmednour3217]

It's astonishing how PragerU can fit so much wrong into such short videos

[@greedo2660]

It's amazing. Pure political propaganda in 2019

[@kingofkings3651]

It's much easier filling a small video full of false information than it is to make a same length video debunking it

[@byz88]

Propaganda streamlined.

[@Hotshotter3000]

This is the whole point of conservative propaganda. Short, quippy, and wrong. It takes them little to no energy to make those lies, but it takes a lot of time and energy to show just how wrong they are. The problem is, it is much easier to remember short, quippy, and wrong than it is to remember the truth. This is why anyone who says 'why not show both sides?' to this I would answer. The two sides they are referring to are lies and truth. Truth is much better when it does not have to content with a lie.

[@tristant3662]

Its astounding how partial you are to people who you disagree with

[@skylarpatterson1408]

When I was a conservative it made me angry when people would point out that "western civilization" wasn't all that special do to pride i had in some idea of what it was supposed to be. As I became an anarchist I started to learn that not only is that intellectually disingenuous, its historical revisionism. I also learn that the left has a place for religious folks as well (being a Christian that's important to me). When I was researching Rojava, I learned that religious tolerance was one of their key values, and shows a great example of atheists, Christians, as well as Muslims fighting to create a socialist society.

[@orbtain]

Nothing screams 300+ IQ like beginning your persuasive essay with "It's been around for a while... Everybody's talking about it"

[@StJiub-lc4eb]

'life is infinitely valuable' wants to kick millions of their health insurance

[@napoleonbonaparteempereurd4676]

And keep Palestinians under Israeli occupation.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Uh, Shaprio supports private health care. It is the modern Left that wants to kick people off their health insurance. See "the Affordable Health Care Act" and Warren and Sanders saying they want to outlaw private health insurance.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Oh, and Medicare/Medicaid are not "health insurance". They are social "welfare" programs.

[@bonthebunnycat667]

@@GreyWolfLeaderTW But a lot of people can't afford private healthcare, and public healthcare or has bad quality, or when they can atend the person, they hae already died some years ago, at least this is the case in my country 😔

[@braydentobin5150]

GreyWolfLeaderTW the left wants to abolish health insurance and develop universal healthcare, you know, like every developed country other than the US already has, and I’m pretty sure other countries have far less debt than Uber powerful USA.

[@wschippr1]

Does Ben Shapiro not consider Islam apart of the Judeo-Christian group of religions? Because it is.

[@shmeckle666]

“Judeo-Christian” doesn’t exist. That’s a canard made by political militant Zionist Jewish supremacists in order to convince Americans that they actually have a lot, religiously and culturally, in common and have shared interests with the Zionist-State and the political militant Zionist Jewish supremacists themselves. Neither of which is true. Bens just another political militant Zionist Jewish supremacists, God’s chosen lunatic plague.

[@حَسن-م3ه9ظ]

Judaism shares way more in common with Islam than it does with Christianity.

[@jankoleon3785]

It really isn't though.. Mohammad was a false prophet..

[@jankoleon3785]

@@حَسن-م3ه9ظ They took the Muhammad took pre existening old testament and change it and became a false prophet

[@jankoleon3785]

@@حَسن-م3ه9ظ What verse ? Well in modern day islamic countries they have sharia law and actively support stoning people to death..

[@spellman007]

Ben Shapiro Logic: "Humans were create to have a unique ability to genocide, therefore, their telos was to genocide"...

[@tbhon]

Hahahahha

[@anonymousmisnomer5443]

He’s getting the whole “Paganism says that history is cyclical” from Percy McFuckin Jackson.

[@SanvelloSerapiega]

Can back up the claim greeks believed in a cyclical timeflow. Can also point out that this made them view that everyone had to deal with the consequences of their actions forever a̶n̶d̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶i̶m̶i̶d̶a̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶c̶e̶p̶t̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶i̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶f̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶f̶u̶c̶k̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶i̶r̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶r̶a̶d̶o̶x̶ and he still misrepresents it

[@wschippr1]

Biggest Metroid Fan in All Existence The Norse believed that Ragnarök would end this world but a new one would be created. It is also suggested in the Poetic Edda’s that there has been other Ragnaröks and there will be more to after the upcoming one. That’s pretty cyclical.

[@SanvelloSerapiega]

@@wschippr1 yeah i heard that the norse believe in cyclical time from Imaginary Axis (in fact the greeks had a less cyclical seeming view of time so i dont know if that relates to how they interpreted it) just unlike the greeks I didnt have a political science philosophy professor explain the shorthand of how they believe specifically how social progress worked and give me enough notes to adequately come to the conclusion Shapiro both misrepresented how it played out culturally or how it was interpreted so I cant say if Shapiro is being fair or lying on Norse philosophy

[@danmorgan3685]

The Greeks are considered the start of Western Civilization. This serves the purpose of setting an arbitrary start point that excludes places like Egypt. The Greeks took a lot of cultural, scientific, etc ques from Egypt. To further this notion the ancient Greeks have been made "white".

[@maya-parisan]

Absolutely, the ancient Greeks are no doubt turning in their graves to be lumped together with the barbarians from the north, rather than with the Egyptians who could actually do math.

[@danmorgan3685]

@@maya-parisanWho was it, Aristotle, who despised sophists? Many of them would have actively despised those who claim to be their modern counterparts.

[@biggtk]

And don't forget that the Greeks learned a lot from the Babylonians as well, especially where Trigonometry and Astronomy are concerned. Today, the descendants of ancient Babylonians are known as Iraqis. Tell that to a lot of alt-righters and watch their heads fall off lol.

[@broken_abi6973]

The greeks were a major influence on the Muslim World. Are Muslims part of the West then?

[@danmorgan3685]

@@biggtk A very good point. I don't know where you come from but in the US they didn't really teach us much about the region. In primary school the world ended East of the Jordan river and didn't start again until it ran into British run India. I'm sure they cover the region with a lot more detail than way back when I was in high school. Considering the political climate and the willful pig shit ignorance of many "parents" (the great weak link in US education) it's probably not very good education.

[@Alex-qn9og]

"Western Civilization is built on Athenian philosophers, like Plato and Socrates" Plato: "The most blessed relationship is one which is erotic, but involves no sexual contact, between a middle aged man and a pubescent boy."

[@grilledcheese3916]

benny boy: human lives are infinitely valuable also benny boy: *literally compares human lives to their money value*

[@gezi5927]

Jenny Socks that’s because money is also indefinitely valuable

[@r.h.f.6073]

how can ben say 'greek thinking' and think that he's referring to a single ideology. greek philosophers had hugely contradictory ideas,

[@arbitool]

That was great Vaush. Please keep exposing PragerU and Ben.

[@lotsohugginbear6103]

Yes fuck Ben sharpener

[@yakutyakutson8719]

"pagan religions say that history repeats itself" hmm yes I will just ignore the fact that the bible says that history repeats itself all the time

[@insertatitlehere13]

38:09 My dude is using a Sony Playstation, a Japanese invention, as a demonstration of western accomplishments. Could the artist not draw an xbox?

[@aaaaaa-qj2et]

why do these people constantly refer to greece as "western civilisation"?? It's famous for being in EASTERN europe

[@aworldtowin955]

uwu help me greece has been seen as the “birthplace” of western civilisation, particularly with philosophy and politics, even being in eastern europe, and like what the vid says, characteristics of western civilisation (eg scientific method) originated in places like the middle east. Even some, coming from asia. This is why its so hard to truely define western civilisation and where it is

[@davidpaul6290]

Yes, eastern EUROPE, which is part of the west.

[@owenmonjesmugas3637]

@@davidpaul6290 he also is saying that Jerusalem is, when the city is in the middle east, which will mean either the muslim nations are part of the west, or this is neither geografical neither cultural.

[@Melodeath00]

You capitalized the wrong part. it's in Eastern EUROPE. Western civilization refers to Europe, and the colonies that developed in the same direction as the "homeland" (USA, Canada and Australia). Russia was also historically part of it, but tends to be excluded because of the whole USSR deal. Classical Greece and Rome are the two most important influences on the modern West.

[@SandhillCrane42]

It's western if it makes the west look better. The west invented everything, and nothing would exist without the west. Matter would evaporate into the void, were it not for the beautiful west.

[@conker690]

When he says "the left likes to focus on the bad" and then genocide is paused on the screen is just so perfect.

[@RuneForumwalker]

Colonization and exploitation. There problem solved. Asked and answered.

[@OsmoZchannel]

actually it was just pure luck in reality, lets face it guys.

[@SamuraiAkechi]

Then it brings up another question: why the West managed to do it sooner and better than others did?

[@RuneForumwalker]

Europe wanted to trade with the Far East, but with the rise of the Turks they didn't have control of the land trade routes. They went looking for another way to get the trade. The Far East, ie China, was more isolationist and wasn't as interested in exploration as Europe who mainly was because they wanted China's goods.

[@RuneForumwalker]

What? I'm not saying the ones with colonial empires are bad, but the countries that were subjects of colonial empires got a rough deal.

[@RuneForumwalker]

Well it's not just a colonial empire in the classic sense, but the developed world treats the third world as a "colony". Capital ships jobs to those country as labor is cheaper due to not having as robust labor laws and such policies.

[@yoavlinzen5669]

i think it will be better to call him bibi shapiro than ben shapiro

[@MrBenbaruch]

I call him a momzer.

[@lotsohugginbear6103]

Bibi sharpener

[@SantosAl]

Hmmmmm... What about Habibi Shapiro?

[@jbs1858]

I love how he goes from mentioning the nazi’s as part of western civilization to saying that the west is the only place that has religious tolerance

[@vanyadolly]

While living in the US.

[@mrpickenz7760]

Killin it with the content lately, keep it up comerade and may the fash be bashed ✊

[@mdashfaqulislam6998]

Why I'm a libertarian (........SOCIALIST) kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYK0laGFi9uAa9E

[@shmeckle666]

This is Ben Shapiro. So, in this case, may the political militant Zionist Jewish supremacists be bashed and crushed.

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

Gay

[@slimjim1042]

@Liam Marra Just shorten it to "fash", they can't process all that.

[@Anelkia]

@@kakyointhemilfhunter4273 *y e s*

[@sarcasticvalet1199]

"Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

Look up "German Zebra Cavalry".

[@pavelthefabulous5675]

Oh, also, maize and potatoes have way more calories per acre than wheat.

[@HomemadeSubmarine]

Environmental determinism is not an accurate explanation. Cortez had ~24 men with guns against tens of thousands of Aztecs. Guns were virtually a non factor. Badempanada has a good video explaining all of it’s faults.

[@goylefriend]

"Religious tolerance and universal human rights" *Genghis Khan has entered the chat*

[@stlchucko]

“Facts don’t care about your feelings” “My particular religious feels are the correct ones that cause all the good things.”

[@TreiberSeptim]

Ben shapiro „jerusalem is in the West“ Romans: „wtf is this Barbarian talking about?“

[@Vohlfied]

The best part about Wester Civilization? The Middle East! - Ben Shababi

[@satanshameer690]

The funny that is that ancient Greeks and Romans the cradle of western civilization had a better opinion about mesopotamians, Egyptians, Persians, etc when compared to the rest of Europe which they considered barbaric

[@حَسن-م3ه9ظ]

19:53 Jerusalem isn't western....

[@jankoleon3785]

He didn't say it was part of West but it greatly influenced western culture..

[@jamiewhitcomb8959]

Ben Shapiro is just parroting Dinesh D'Souza in the whole video.

[@cutecommie]

43:19 I can't believe Vaush would ctrl-f the n-word. I'm literally shakeing and crying irght now!!!11

[@-tired-of-people-6911]

I love how he talks about Ancient Greece so much and than says pagans are illogical. It’s almost like you don’t need judeochristian values to make a “successful” civilization-

[@Gray-dr2ri]

Ah yes, Genghis Khan, famous for creating a civilization built on the religious freedom that inspired our Founding Fathers, is the pinnacle of Western Civilization

[@AYouTubeCommentator]

Where did the founding fathers credit Genghis Khan as having influenced their belief in freedom of religion?

[@jordanarchuleta1649]

10:04 vaush "we're not done, lets do more.." Shapiro "slavery" BEN NO!!!

[@guillermoibanezgomez3031]

Maybe because the whole concept of "success" is a western thing? We're always in bed with a teleology of some sort.

[@rodolfodoce]

@@trentonmcclintock7836 bro you wouldn't be a depressed incell living in a mudhut, just saying.

[@tyronechillifoot5573]

@@rodolfodoce most people in africa live in modern cities most rural people live in wooden houses

[@rodolfodoce]

@@tyronechillifoot5573 just answering to a reactionary that got his comment deleted. also africa is a massive continent with a variety of cultures and customs. obviously i agree with you, also i am from mozambique.

[@oekalaboekala]

Ragnarok is the end of a cyclus. According to the old norse it happened countless times before.

[@RipTheJackR]

Odin, gi oss styrke :) Beware of Fenris.

[@DarkPrject]

According to which version? The Edda implies no such thing. The only part that could be construed as cyclical is the strongly Christian influenced idea that ragnarok is the beginning of a new world rather than the end of everything.

[@MrJohndoakes]

26:03 and 38:40 Their artist seems to think that ancient Greeks looked like American frat pledges in togas - notice how the "philosopher" at 38:40 looks like a stereotypical modern professor. They probably use the same drawings (with the clothing and backgrounds changed) in other videos on how "great" unaccredited Christian colleges in the Deep South truly are.

[@cutecommie]

28:35 Pictured: Ben offers AOC an umbrella (to own the libs)

[@willdenham]

Yeah when I think of 'Western civilization', and European history in general such as the crusades, the Spanish inquisition, pagan crucifixion, the holocaust, religious tolerance is one of the first things that comes mind.

[@johannaderee4763]

The idea that the Greek philosophers where somehow paragons of human reason and not religious is the result of early Christian scholars inventing that "brand" or "framing" of them in order to be justified in preserving their texts and not be declared heretics by the church (inadvertently sort of inventing secularism in the process). Greek philosophy was intensely religious. Many of the people we now think of as rational philosophers where actually the leaders of religious cults and they spoke in distinctly religious terms. Just because some Christian monks treated alternate creation myths as " thought experiments" doesn't mean we should.

[@dj3y3]

Hell, I’m NOT super educated in European history, and I could tell you that religious tolerance was minimal at best

[@r.h.f.6073]

Oh dear...Jerusalem is literally in the middle EAST. If Semitic religions are 'Western' then I have some news for you.

[@OscarMor5678]

But christanity devolped in europe

[@doopydoops2064]

@oscar no it did not, Oscar. Jesus of Nazareth was Jewish. Jesus of Nazareth lived nearly his entire biblical life in modern day Israel.

[@OscarMor5678]

@@doopydoops2064 When I say devolped they mean evolved just bcuz the origin was there doesnt mean it cant devolpe somewhere else.

[@doopydoops2064]

@oscar so then where’s your cut off for a religion developing? Quite literally no major religion has stopped developing. In this case, we could also call Islam a religion that developed in Europe.

[@OscarMor5678]

@@doopydoops2064 thats just not true wtf

[@HowToPnP]

Ben: "The ancient Greeks are the foundation of science." Ben, 1 Minute later: "the pagans Greeks were idiots!"

[@FlashmanJW]

I may be mis-remembering things, but I'm fairly certain on these few things. 1. The Silk Road had vast religions that interacted and co-existed with each other. 2. Persia had already outlawed slavery an entire generation before the Battle of Thermopylae; in fact, if we go by geography when talking about "The West", then the Spartans contradict his point because they had slaves during that time. 3. Ben Shapiro isn't the person to talk to about science and experiments and inventions whatsoever; he believes very strongly that Native Americans were savages that contributed nothing to society except for scalpings...even though we use their calendars, they had written language, had syringes, enemas, anesthetics, atlases, cultivated and bred crops (which we are eating in America). I don't think he's the guy to make a good faith argument about non-Enlightenment cultures and science (if he is talking about The West in terms of being part of the Enlightenment). Edit: 4. Athens' philosophy contradicts his assertion of giving rights to women/human rights in general. Society in Athens was misogynist, for lack of a better word. Sparta, the aforementioned slave holders, were more progressive toward women than Athens. In Sparta, women were allowed to hold land and actually get somewhat of an education and were considered more free than any other women in Greece. Point being, maybe don't make Greece your starting point when you've already made the assertion that The West has a monopoly on human rights and women's rights. 5. If God, if such a thing exists and could be quantified, ordained such morals/principles within us or our laws or whatever Shapiro was saying...then why did it take so fucking long for The West to realize that women should have equal rights, slavery is wrong, etc. 6. Just going by the graphic, I'm going to guess those were the 10 Commandments and I'm just going to leave this here:kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmralot9qaiebcU

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

Vaush is wrong about the Hundred Years' War. The Hundred Years' war was an ongoing inheritence dispute over the throne of France that had several hot and cold periods. The Thirty Years' War was a war between Protestants and Catholics NOMINALLY, but the Protestant side featured one of the most powerful Catholic countries in the world at the time, France, the Orthodox Russia, and the Islamic Ottoman Empire. The war was about religion in name. It was a proxy war via religion against the Habsburg dynasty, not against Catholicism. Seriously, leftist online people talking about history usually rumbles the fuck out of me, because generally they get the THEMES correct, but they get the individual events wrong in a way that makes it possible for cons to poke holes in their talking points.

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

Europe after the enlightenment was war after war after war after war after war. Vaush is wrong that it got better after the enlightenment. It only got better after the conclusion of the Napoleonic wars and a balance of power was established in Europe. There were fewer and smaller wars in the post-Napoleonic 1800s up until WW1 tossed things up.

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

If you actually look at the individual conflicts all the way through the 1700s and up into the early 1800s, there were pretty much constantly giant continent-wide wars.

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

Also, the world IS supposed to restart after Ragnarok.

[@mtvandamme]

The Aztecs invented brainsurgery hundreds of years ago

[@janparadowski4894]

7:21 those can be easily associated with imperial Japan. Last time I checked that was anything but western civilization.

[@gezi5927]

Jan Paradowski very true

[@richardarriaga6271]

Imperial Japan took Western technology and military doctrine with Prussian absolutism in its government structure. It was definitely influenced by the West.

[@ignitionfrn2223]

0:35 - Reaction to the comment section 3:10 - Who wants to end the west ? 6:15 - Historical pessimism on the left 8:00 - The "positives" 8:10 - Religious tolerance 9:20 - Abolition of slavery 10:10 - Universal human rights 11:15 - The scientific method 14:55 - Progressivism...in spite of you 16:10 - Lifting out of poverty 17:00 - "Modern world" invented ? 18:10 - The World is western 20:15 - Religion 20:50 - Religion vs reason 22:30 - Morals lead to a functional society 25:30 - Wrong clothing 26:20 - Greek scientific method 27:30 - Only the west did it 28:45 - Religion to improve the world 30:15 - Pagan religions are evil 31:50 - Why bother ? 33:45 - Each human is equal 34:40 - Strong vs the weak 36:55 - Slavery 38:45 - Greek reason 39:40 - Greek aren't part of the west 41:00 - American revolution 44:35 - What new political philosophy ? 45:30 - Scientific materialism 46:35 - Nihilism 47:35 - Fanaticism 48:00 - The commies did it again 51:30 - Islam 52:20 - Progressives 53:55 - Facts don't care about feelings

[@MinatoNamikaze798]

Glad to see Baldur dunking on squeaky benjamin

[@ExImperialDragon]

It's really interesting to go back 2 years and hear how Vaush spoke back then. He's really improved his speech methodology over the years.

[@KacieMarie]

I’m a Norse pagan, and actually the Nordic veiw is cyclical; the thing is not everyone dies at Ragnorok, after Odin, Thor and a few other dies, the gods that do survive actually get together and start over, and Thor’s sons take over the Mjolnir. Up until Christianity the majority of people viewed time as cyclical.

[@GordieKat]

Might I make a suggustion? You should try do a no pause watch reaction first and then go back and go through point by point.

[@creshiell]

Might get demonetized

[@Anelkia]

Yeah it would be more efficient I think

[@RudeGamer1988]

"is Jerusalem part of the west" well they allow Israel to take part in Eurovision despite being a part of the Asian continent 😁

[@JackKell100]

32:00 - 33:10 Vaush: "How can something be cyclical if it has an end?" Me: "Nascar races and springs are both cyclical and have an end, checkmate!" /s

[@Vohlfied]

Leftism destroyed!

[@gezi5927]

42:29 I think you mean *DECLARATION DADDIES*

[@notastrangeperson2298]

-praises democracy -praises Greek philosophers like Plato -ignores that Plato advocated for monarchy

[@n1w4]

I ceede my alt-right kingpinata swing to you for this video

[@jessbian3385]

43:18 uhhh someone slipped the N word in

[@jeffc5974]

Before I start the video, my guess: because they ignore or minimize the contributions of other cultures. Oh, wait, it's Prager U, so the opposite of that.

[@fallra]

I have not agreed to everything Ive heard you say thus far, but this is actually a really good debunk of his video. Thanks!

[@claudiarcade]

i missed the live one but man this is great!

[@h0len]

America - has no universal health care system Ben Shapiro - universal human rights Seems like the right to a healthy life isn't among those xD

[@Spencerwalker21]

Ben facts don't care about my sky God's feels.

[@jankoleon3785]

I mean it is a fact you irregardless of what you think and this is something to even atheist agree with the u.s was founded on christian values even though there's a separation of church and state George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin had clear cut bible acknowledgment and references in there writtings it's the reason why there's in God we trust on our money..

[@OscarMor5678]

Nice " tolerance"

[@Zhaife]

sped up ben shaprio gives me anxiety

[@poisondamage2182]

10:20 Ben Shapiroman pro Trans Rights confirmed xD

[@jankoleon3785]

I mean we all have equal rights and equal protection of the Constitution though a trans person quite literally have the same rights as everybody else..

[@danielssonnets7820]

Not to mention that conservatives confuse their feelings with facts and logic.

[@jankoleon3785]

I think you mean leftist..

[@elianicolettesnow512]

I can't believe he sped up the video and it just sounded like Shapiro talking normally this is off to a great start

[@AhrenAKADan]

When I think of Western Civilian I think of civilizations "inspired by" the early ones in Mesopotamia and the Nile vs Indus River valley, Yellow River, Andes and Mesoamerica. This includes the Phoenicians, Babylon, Israel, Persians, Islamic caliphates, etc. It's wide but historically and anthropologically it's really the only definition that makes sense to me.

[@cemaydn9284]

Ben shapiro: here is a 5 min of video Vaush: here is why that 5 min vid is wrong *in 1 hour*

[@DavidHeffron78]

Benny packs a lot in.

[@Nabs-xd2qr]

I feel emotionally exhausted and yet I'm watching another one of these vids.

[@joefinberg8387]

As an Ottoman History fan, I'm glad you brought up the religious tolerance part. Jews literally fled Christian Europe to the Muslim Ottoman empire to get away from Persecution by Christianity. The big problem(s) in the middle east now actually stems from how the Ottoman empire fell. Or rather how the British and French instigated its fall. Mainly because the British poured resources into Salafist movements in the Arabian peninsula, shifting the power base in the Muslim world from Anatolia to the Arabian peninsula was a sad byproduct of breaking up the Ottoman empire, but it also allowed less tolerant, more radical interpretations of Islam to flourish, and gave people in the region plenty of reason to feel cheated and used by Europe for generations.

[@stavrostziounis4756]

Dude there were religious persecutions in the ottoman empire too, especially against Christian minorities

[@joefinberg8387]

​@@stavrostziounis4756 When, what region? How were they persecuted?

[@joefinberg8387]

@@stavrostziounis4756 Do you mean like how Christians are "persecuted" in the US because people aren't letting them turn this country into "A handmaid's tale"

[@saampam894]

@@joefinberg8387 like in the Balkans were Christian were forced to join the Ottoman army's

[@joefinberg8387]

@@saampam894 1. Every major empire then had some kind of conscription 2. How does conscription count as "persecution"? 3. If you are referring to the Janissaries corps (the first standing army in europe) which was effectively a human tax that the ottomans enacted where the military age men in conquered territories would be conscripted for 10 years, then after their service would be granted a plot of land and some servants. That was a way to integrate conquered peoples into their territory. That doesn't count as persecution, as it was not intended to "hurt Christians" but to maintain the empire, and all conquered people were subjected to it.

[@martinn.6082]

Ben Shapiro: “A world view of endless repeating history is the reason other people don’t innovate!” Also Ben Shapiro: “The rapture is coming any day now! I’m a fundamentalist Jew who believes in the coming of the messiah! The earth will crack open and everyone will die!”

[@Ancienregime8090]

I'm honestly interested about what would happen if Ben debated an actual leftist.

[@patriciawilkes5079]

He would lie 4 times per sentence, gish gallop and strawman so much that it would be impossible to keep up and break it all down

[@roryreviewer6598]

Last weekend I saw a Ben Shapiro sticker on a public newspaper dispenser. Ripped it the fuck off. Felt good. A highlight of my week.

[@justsomeguy2825]

Just to correct Benny on one point as a Nhilist. Nhilism is not the belief that life has no meaning and you are just Stellar dust in a cold universe It is an agnolwegement that you are indeed stardust in a cold universe. And that life has no Objective meaning handed down from on high. This means your life can have whatever meaning you want it to if you choose to give it meaning.

[@Dave102693]

Pretty much

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Problem with that logic is it is entirely subjective and self-refuting on a logical basis. If life has no Objective meaning, then it *DOESN'T OBJECTIVELY MATTER* what meaning you subjectively attempt to ascribe to it.

[@SanvelloSerapiega]

@@GreyWolfLeaderTW why would that matter.... Even if i had an objective meaning for existence it WOULD SUCK DICK if i didnt want it. What if i was created to pass butter.

[@Tyxaar]

You know an Abrahamic has never done research on paganism, modern or ancient when they say "pagans evil, pagans wrong, one and only god good."

[@averynoe2954]

9:05 loved the vid but the 100 years war took place before Martin Luther or king Henry VIII

[@DDR23BEST]

The modern concept of religious tolerance developed out of the European wars of religion, more specifically out of the Peace of Westphalia.

[@smittannl]

So, I personally always saw western vs eastern civilization throughout the olden days, was expansion vs stagnation. The enlightenment was the start of Europe's expansion, whilst the Qing dynasty takeover and shutdown of china, lead to the start of the East's stagnation. As the European powers tried to make themselves the strongest power. The Chinese saw themselves as the strongest power and refused to change with the times. This has reversed in our modern times, with the Americans (great western superpower) being stagnate and China and India coming out and progressing further. Just a little thing from me. Feel free for civil debates in the comments, and have a great day.

[@thelastclassicist]

It was WESTERN ideals also brought around a billion people out of poverty in China, India, and East Asia, over the past 30-40 years.

[@christophersnedeker]

How have they adopted western ideals?

[@thelastclassicist]

@@christophersnedeker Free enterprise, foreign investment (through the 80s all the way until 2000s)

[@Ko0okieeZ]

Communism ended hunger in china

[@SoSoKayla]

Blood magic. I thought that everybody knew that?

[@brohemianrhapsody3039]

Fun fact: One of the first places to abolish slavery was the Persian empire.