Why I Can't Love the Spear LT

[@mattb8758]

I was ringing 9 inch plates at 400 yards with 77 grain AAC with extreme consistency. Your mileage may vary. This was 11.5 5.56 btw.

[@Pacificplinker556]

3 grand for over 3moa is insane

[@4MRRanch]

Agreed

[@patrickcollins5945]

My 11.5 has the barrel flex issue. I torqued down to spec and installed the Arisaka device. Helps, but it's insane that this product got to market with the flex issue.

[@4MRRanch]

My 11.5 is rock solid. Guess it just goes to show the variability in the platform.

[@I_Finger_Triggers]

What did you torque them down to?

[@ch3cksund3ad]

@@4MRRanch if you bought one later, they supposedly fixed it Im going to get one soon

[@Contextual_Applications]

MCX user since 2016 and former GM of a Sig Master Dealer here. MCX barrels do not, and never have, "flexed". What you are experiencing is handguard* flex in relation to the barrel and has been inherent to the MCX design since the Gen 1 (the Virtus series has the least due to handguard thickness if it really bothers you, but you still want a MCX). Modern day optic setups that move all aiming devices rearward onto the actual receiver (HRF Skiff, GBRS Hydra, etc) completely negate this being any sort of issue. Not to mention Vortex's XM7 contract optic that retains all of these features in one, and thus moves them off the handguard and onto the upper. TLDR: it's not an issue when used in its intended context. Your own mileage may vary.

[@supermario5]

Yeah totally and at their price point

[@4MRRanch]

Thanks for watching guys. Anyone else in an abusive relationship with their Spear LT? I know it’s not good for me, but I still find myself drawn to it 🫶 And for the record, yes some of the ammo tested did “ok”. I’m sure there’s ammo out there that would do even better. That said, on average, my two spears don’t typically do too great with regards to accuracy.

[@sapperstyle57]

11.5" Spear Lt owner. No barrel flex, it was the rail. Retorqued the rail screws which fixed the problem. Accuracy sucked. Gas problems. Gas block was loose. Sent back to Sig. Now 1 to 1.5 MOA with 69gr SMK with the new barrel.

[@thewolfof3am874]

Underrated channel (just commenting to feed the algorithm)

[@4MRRanch]

I appreciate that! Thanks for stopping by

[@OGJonnyKamikaze]

Good video I was going to drop 3k on a spear Lt but decided I needed good NV way more.

[@4MRRanch]

Going to revisit this with a larger variety of match ammo

[@ThinLineDefenseCo]

I think I relate to you more every video lol

[@4MRRanch]

Glad to have a like minded individual out there man!

[@willthrill94]

Thanks for putting together this content man!

[@4MRRanch]

Happy to do it. I have more video ideas than I have time, but more to come.

[@number1squib488]

Such a great channel. Hope you grow at an exponential rate.

[@4MRRanch]

I appreciate that! You and me both!

[@shookfng]

I would like to know wish is better Spear LT 300BLK with Silencer or Q Sugar Weasel 330BLK SD? Thanks.

[@WearilyCorrect]

Glad I went with the Dissent.

[@zackz4015]

As always very informative and great video.

[@4MRRanch]

Thanks for watching!

[@eriklambert3809]

I think a lot of people do not measure correctly or their yardage is wrong. I’ve seen a number of ranges that say 100 but aren’t. I also think some bought it and shot it a couple of times and just post how awesome it is. I’ve not seen one shoot moa in person.

[@4MRRanch]

I shot groups at a target at a measured and confirmed distance of 25 yards, meaning I could clearly see the target. Felt comfortable with all shots taken. These were my unfiltered results. As somebody with a $15k spear build shown in this video, wish it wasn’t the case.. but for me it was.

[@Gmny1MOA]

Yea...ive squeaked some 5shot groups at ab 1 and a quarter or so w my 308 but it might have been luck...and w AAC 168gr of all things. Not even the smk's

[@eriklambert3809]

@4MRRanch that's why people love your channel. Numbers don't lie. The worst AR I have is also the only one I have I wouldn't trust. Even though it has been fixed by the factory, it still has a stigma. The worst part is the fear of it letting down someone else keeps me from selling it. 😪

[@eriklambert3809]

@@Gmny1MOA I've been pleasantly surprised by AAC ammo. Both the 168 .308 and the 77 gr 5.56.

[@eriklambert3809]

@4MRRanch I was waiting on the everyday Joe's to start posting on sights to see if the Sigs were ok. I was just about to by one when the issues started being talked about.

[@frankopanklaric]

My shoots 1 moa with 69-77gr match ammo. The MCX virtus was a better rifle. This is a downgrade.

[@4MRRanch]

What barrel length?

[@frankopanklaric]

@@4MRRanch The 16 incher bangs out 1 moa with match ammo.

[@MrCashewkitty]

Id love to see video proof of that. I havent seen a single big or little spear hit that.

[@thowd11]

My 16 in LT is 1 MOA with match 69gr

[@juanriv01]

I understand the modular component of the MCX Spear, having the flexibility to change barrels, but if I’m only interested in 300 blackout, not changing barrels, then is the accuracy issue not an issue?

[@H538-w3q]

I had a few of the Virtus models in 14.5 and 11.5, both were not great in accuracy and heavy guns. Surprisingly I’ve had a few of the rattlers and they were all extremely accurate. Sig is super overpriced and when I had them spare parts were never available. I’ve since gotten out of Sig and into the Geissele’s and couldn’t be happier.

[@astromoosie]

I wonder how the Virtus compares

[@doublepiedavid8908]

I am getting 2 MOA with M193 with my 16". The barrel flex is real, but it seems to be self correcting by slamming the bolt or firing it a couple times.

[@4MRRanch]

Yeah it corrects but this shouldn’t be an issue for this price point and is a huge miss on sigs part

[@The.End.]

good stuff. exactly what I was looking for thank you! just swapped out my DD for one and i am not pleased with the accuracy. Sounds like i need to buy more expensive ammo to achieve still worse accuracy than my DD.

[@colethomas157]

Goat KZbinr

[@4MRRanch]

Appreciate you

[@harryparma8941]

Good insight

[@4MRRanch]

Thanks

[@daviddrago9360]

I’ve been hesitant on picking one up, I think I’ll pass. Didn’t make it very far in a burn down either. Anderson upper lasted longer by over 400 rounds and the only reason they stopped was because the plastic handguard caught fire.

[@4MRRanch]

My $280 BCA upper shoots 1/2 MOA

[@daviddrago9360]

@@4MRRanch I get .78 moa with an Anderson Midlength 16 inch barrel I used to think Aero was better than Anderson, but this barrel has me thinking differently

[@AnrchyXRY]

@@4MRRanch1/2 moa with 3 round groups and 77 grain MAYBE😂

[@AnrchyXRY]

@@daviddrago93603 round groups don’t count

[@CoryIsMyName]

Which burndown are you referring to? Goldenwebb's made it to 1010 rounds with an 11.5" barrel, with the only rifles scoring higher being a Radian Mod 1 with 1055 and a custom Geissele HBAR with 1600.

[@NotABot-m6e]

Ar15 Master race

[@carbon4201]

Shoulda just gone XCR Siggers didn't increase the bolt face size for the 7.62x39 conversion, so skipping it was the correct choice

[@4MRRanch]

Makes me wonder if I shoulda just got a scar 16

[@carbon4201]

@@4MRRanch not bad if you swap jets but the ergos are kind of lacking. Conversion kits are pricey. You probably wouldn't enjoy the 16 long term.

[@josephregner7378]

Nice Rifle power

[@davidschlageter5962]

Another bougy SCAR for men who wear Coach backpacks

[@4MRRanch]

*hides coach purse in shame*

[@eriklambert3809]

Sig gave a lot of them to “influencers”. I usually wait to see what the average joe gets. Way too many horror stories.

[@Redbusser40]

Scar is better then spear dude

[@davidschlageter5962]

@@Redbusser40 if so, why did the army ditch the SCAR?

[@Redbusser40]

@@davidschlageter5962dude theres scar 16s over 40000 rounds still going strong. I run mine with rc2. Thing is bullet proof. Good luck to the army going with 6.8 high pressure round, going to be breaking lots of parts / going through a lot of barrels fast

[@ludybahneman7229]

I’ve had a very bad experience with Hornady’s 75gr in my Virtus. 77s work the best for my rifle.

[@RedEarthRider]

I also own 2, and mine are slightly better but not by much. I too wish they were more accurate.

[@strat1960s]

NGAL question. Who'd you get your dual switch through? I'm trying to find a dual switch for the NGAL (la23 plug) and Streamlight Protac (Crane laser plug). I did do some cutting and soldering and it works for now, but for how long is unknown. LOL

[@4MRRanch]

My NGAL clone has a crane port!

[@strat1960s]

@@4MRRanch Nice. I must have gotten an older model.

[@whiskeyactual.]

I'll be sticking with my Virtus. Newer isn't always better.

[@4MRRanch]

Agreed. But the aesthetics appealed heavily to me on this one. Just wish she performed as well as she looks..

[@TheMikeshannon]

I'd really like to see this done with better ammo. I've done some decent data gathering with alot of my personal rifles and not a single one has preferred the hornady 75gr. ADI 69, hornady eldm, federal gmm 69 and 73, have all performed better consistently and the sig 77 has without a doubt been my most consistent for small groups. I would definitely snag a few boxes of the sig 77 marksman or fgmm and it might change your mind on the accuracy. My virtus shoots pretty close to if not under 1moa for 5 shot groups with the sig ammo. That being said with all the cons to the mcx line I definitely agree they aren't for most people. I'm stuck in a ban state with a "preban" mcx which is the only reason I really still own my virtus

[@TheMikeshannon]

Just to add- I've tested the following barrels and none have preferred the hornady 75gr. Capable citizen THICC 13.9, FCD 12.5, Rosco PB 16, BA 13.7, SOLGW 13.7(old BA version) RD15 Proof 16", Rosco 18" DMR, Rosco govt profile 18", colt 6921 14.5, CZ bren 11.5, virtus 11.5, virtus 16, KAC 11.5, colt commando 11.5, FN m16 18", BCM BFH ELW 16, and probably atleast a few more im forgetting

[@4MRRanch]

I’ll revisit this with better ammo, because I’m curious to get the best possible accuracy

[@TheMikeshannon]

@@4MRRanch this has made me curious though, definitely taking my virtus back out to play with some more different loads

[@4MRRanch]

@@TheMikeshannon keep me posted if you do.

[@TheMikeshannon]

​@@4MRRanchwasn't able to get enough content on it but might eventually do a video on the virtus. Unless I have an oh shit moment that I know for a fact I pulled a shot i don't remove outliers. 10 shot groups from a less than ideal shooting spot, 100yd. Sig 77-1.69", FGMM 75gr 1.75, FGMM 69gr 1.81, pmc 77 2.53, hornadu ELDM 73 2.68. The 69gr fgmm is the only one I had a called flyer. 16" virtus, 4-16 arken, flow6k, arisaka clamp. Also confident i could do better but this is what I had that day

[@stritheor]

I have tried and tried to figure out the love for this gun. A buddy of mine has tried to sell me on it three times. I still just don't get it. Sunk cost fallacy and everybody is doubling down on their purchase to justify it?

[@4MRRanch]

It’s incredibly reliable, I’ll give it that.. and it looks damn good lol

[@andyprairiedog]

With this Sig...question is...Did it fire on it's own? Jp. Great insight and I'm not too familiar with the Spear rifle. Bit thank you for putting content out that some people may be looking for and what to possibly expect before dropping $3K for a Sig Spear with super-spear-like accuracy of a 50-cal Barret. I know, thats probably a peanut to grapefruit analogy...just walking through some people's fighting position with a white lens flashlight.

[@tylerfrogley1227]

Mine hasn’t been horrible.my11.5” Seems to be on par with any criterion AR15 barrel I’ve had, but if I’m doing precision work it’s not my go to.

[@4MRRanch]

Some of the ammo tested did “ok” and I’m sure there’s ammo out there that will do better. But on average, accuracy wasn’t great.

[@tylerfrogley1227]

@@4MRRanch ya I get that. Glad to know the flex is less in the 11.5

[@db9271]

I own a lt 16 and it averages about 1.5 moa at 100 with a nightforce 1x8. Torque the screws to spec. I’m so tired of this barrel flex BS. Don’t screw with it and enjoy the darn gun.

[@Kisara556NATO]

HONESTY! Thanks. “Subscribed”👍

[@4MRRanch]

Welcome to the channel, happy to have you

[@kaylensmith1293]

M4SDK? If so how you like it?

[@4MRRanch]

Love it

[@WendigoACTL]

So here’s my problem with the accuracy issue. The reason this rifle was justified to be the standard issue for the army was because some general determined that fire superiority by “accuracy” was a fair trade off for fire superiority by volume. So if we’re seeing accuracy issues, then it blows that theory out of the water and it’s going to result in people dying instead of

[@4MRRanch]

You can definitely hit targets with it (as shown by my clip hitting a 24 x 24” target at 500 yards consistently) but don’t expect precision grade accuracy out of it

[@nickcomp1664]

Mine have shot much better then that. Weird.

[@4MRRanch]

I showed it’s capable of around 1 MOA, but only with select ammo. On average, not too great

[@nickcomp1664]

@@4MRRanch your 11.5 was over 2 across the board no? Mine has consistently been around 1-1.25. They are over priced, for sure. But like you said, meant to be a “combat rifle” so 3-4 moa would be acceptable, yet very annoying for the price. They are sigs after all.

[@davesackenheim2937]

Mine is sub MOA with 77 grain match.... I got no use for green tip garbage, all the veterans say absolutely no green tip their garbage they're four and five MOA out of most guns.... I use 55 grain ammo and I still get close to an inch I don't know what your problem is I did crank my handguard down and stop the barrel Flex problem, completely

[@TheGrizzLee87]

Saw a lot of videos about the gun, 50% are happy and have zero problems the other half complains about barrel drift 😅

[@durkadurka1988]

@@4MRRanchoh so like every rifle.

[@brendanstewart5074]

You should redo the test without the first shot (after barrel reinstall) being included in the group. I bet those numbers come down, significantly.

[@jamfd3s788]

I have never liked American Sig but the Spear LT has always looked so good to me, I just cant justify paying the price for how poorly it shoots in every review I've seen.

[@georgeshorter142]

Based on your expectations, it sounds like you really aren’t aware of M855 standards. Also your expectations are a little contrived for the barrel swap repeatability

[@4MRRanch]

Pretty actual sure nato spec ammo is supposed to meet a 2 MOA specification. Regarding the barrel swap, I was hoping this feature would win some points back for the spear (it didn’t)

[@CxS_Nico]

Are you surprised you didn't get the same zero by swapping the 11.5 and 16 inch barrel? You need to re-zero when you swap barrels. No brainer.

[@4MRRanch]

I was curious to see if this would be a “perk” of this system to make up for the only half decent accuracy. The barrels have a taper system, and I torqued them to the same spec. I feel like it’s not completely in reasonable to have hopes it would return to zero. There are systems out there in a similar price range that do return to zero when removing and replacing the barrel. Edit: clarification, I didn’t swap barrels and expect it to stay zeroed. I removed the barrel and replaced it within the same upper. There were TWO separate uppers tested for this video.

[@CxS_Nico]

@@4MRRanch Yeah anytime you remove a barrel and re-install its probably best to confirm zero. Hell, even altering the muzzle device/removing suppressor alters the point of impact. I've tested this with similar barrel systems like LMT and a Scar 16s. I'm not surprised the zero wasn't completely on point.

[@4MRRanch]

@@CxS_Nico I wouldn’t call it a terrible shift, but not great either. I was just searching for a reason to love this build… guess I’m still looking lol

[@CxS_Nico]

@@4MRRanch Yeah nonetheless I’m interested to see more content on this platform. I recently invested in this platform as well.

[@o329o]

🔥

[@4MRRanch]

Thanks for watching

[@CoryIsMyName]

1. MOA measurements taken by hand at close distances are almost worthless. There's just too much possibility for error. If your measurement is off by 1/8", which is only 1/16" in each direction, that translates to 1/2 MOA error. 2 +/- 1/2 is a pretty large range and that's just one measurement. If your final group size is determined by multiple measurements with that amount of error then I wouldn't really trust those numbers as being accurate. 2. Barrel/rail flex is only a real issue if your screws aren't tightened to the correct torque specs. It sucks that it's such a simple QC issue for a $3k rifle, but that's the world in which we live. 3. It might seem heavier, but the reality is that the weight difference between a Spear LT and a random DI rifle is a matter of ounces. If an increase of 8oz is a dealbreaker, then maybe the rifle isn't your biggest problem.

[@4MRRanch]

The groups were measured with a caliper on an annual calibration cycle with accuracy to a thousandth of an inch. I also shot a few groups at 100 yards and my calcs did translate very well.

[@CoryIsMyName]

@@4MRRanch The issue isn't with the tool so much as it is with the measurements being taken by hand. If you're going center-to-center then you're eyeballing it, and if you're going edge-to-edge then you'll have another layer of inconsistency with how the paper tears. It's cool though that your measurements translated to 100yds. Maybe you're just on the opposite end of the luck spectrum here. I'm usually getting 1-2 MOA depending on ammo and how I'm feeling. Either way, none of this really matters when all we're shooting at is paper targets. It's a cool gun that turns heads at the range.

[@andersalbertsson215]

Sig moment

[@vettepilot427]

I have a 16” Spear LT. Did not have the issues that you describe. I shoot Winchester USA XM193 55 gr and Hornady Frontier 62 gr FMJ and get 1.5” groups at 100 with a Sig suppressor (7.62 SLH). Not quite as accurate as a Geissele URGI, but significantly better than a lot of ‘mil-spec’ AR’s. The issue that I do have is the ergonomics of the fixed skeleton stock. I found it extremely uncomfortable and switched out to a folding buffer tube extension (stock on the 7.62 SPEAR) and a B5 Bravo stock. I also swapped the trigger to a SSA-E. Otherwise, it has ran flawlessly and been as accurate as I am in various carbine classes over several thousand rounds.

[@4MRRanch]

Seems like you’re one of the lucky few. Many people in the comments have expressed similar accuracy as what I got out of mine.

[@JamesMelton]

This rifle is so damn sexy to me. However, that's not enough. I'd probably accept the wider grouping if it were at least consistent with crappier ammo, but if it goes outside 4 MOA, it's a no go. At $2500+ it just isn't for this family man.

[@ThinLineDefenseCo]

Plus it has the balance of a boat anchor that wants to continually dive into the ground. It's not great.

[@4MRRanch]

After about 10 minutes of drills my bicep legit starts burning a bit. And I hit the gym at least 5 days a weak, so it’s not for a lack of staying in shape. Super front heavy.

[@JamesMelton]

@@ThinLineDefenseCo Man, that's such a deal breaker. I don't think guys appreciate how awful a front heavy gun really is. You can be jacked, but running a gun ready up when you have all the goods on? You're going to get smoked.

[@ThinLineDefenseCo]

@@JamesMelton absolutely....AND you gotta add lights, illuminators, cans etc....so it gets even worse.

[@davesackenheim2937]

tighten the handguard bolts up to 65 ft lbs and you will have no more handguard Flex it's not to do with the barrel....

[@4MRRanch]

Everything was tightened to spec per sig’s manual. The handguard is a free floated handguard and shouldn’t have bearing on accuracy, only the two barrel bolts. Additionally, each upper had the Arisaka zero retention clamps to further stiffen the handguard. These were the unfiltered results of my samples.

[@davesackenheim2937]

Wel ..I talked to a Sig Sauer rep, I called Sig Sauer and they said the fix was to tighten that handguard up to 65 lb because it's pretty much indestructible, and it'll fix it..... consequently I own three of them and I tightened the handguard up on 15 customers at the local gun store because he sold a ton of them and there have been no problems and or complaints.. all of my LTS are absolutely unbelievably accurate, but I talked to the Sig Sauer rep and he said they've had some problems with the earlier guns and accuracy

[@chenlmax]

@@davesackenheim2937 cope

[@davesackenheim2937]

@@chenlmax suck it

[@kennyphillips1624]

Were you shooting 5.56 or the ammo that the military designed for it?

[@4MRRanch]

Both 5.56 and 223 of varying weights

[@whiskeyactual.]

Did you bother with actually watching the video?

[@kennyphillips1624]

@@whiskeyactual. yes I started watching it then got interrupted.

[@ThinLineDefenseCo]

@@kennyphillips1624 but you still had time to comment? kinda weird.

[@phillip6919851]

I have ALWAYS said sig is overpriced for what you get. You can buy cheaper and better stuff and just as reliable

[@4MRRanch]

They have some good stuff, and some not so good stuff.

[@phillip6919851]

@@4MRRanch most definitely. I own a lot of sig handguns but this is after they fixed all the bugs. Sig’s QC to me is horrible until they fix everything and that typically takes about 2 years

[@Gmny1MOA]

Im commenting before ive watched the video but my big boy spear accuracy kind of sucks too...its a 2 to 3 moa gun...reminds me of akm accuracy...i got it to hunt deer with and bc ive had problems w other ar10 platforms being reliable so just impulse bought it basically like a moron...i was kind of depressed that day so i threw away all my money

[@4MRRanch]

Sounds like the accuracy is about the across the board

[@Gmny1MOA]

​@@4MRRanchyea I still think it's cool though...I've modded it to my taste...ergo grip was a major upgrade i hated the factory grip angle...its all kitted up...one thing ab the 308 is it recoils just like a bolt action...spent a cpl hundred rounds at the 600m cmp range and I felt like I had been in a mild fender bender

[@henrygonzalez360]

You are absolutely right brother. Theu have always been Touted asnan extremely quick battal change in the field by the actual guys are running this.

[@bdbeats7209]

Oooo the fan boys will loose their shit over this. I've heard it is worth around half the price that they are charging for them.

[@4MRRanch]

Don’t get me wrong, there’s still a cool factor to this rifle I can’t deny, but the accuracy is disappointing and the barrel flex issue on the 16” is inexcusable for the price.

[@fuzzyreticle]

Why change the barrel?

[@4MRRanch]

I personally won’t be, but it’s a feature so I tested it

[@charltont23]

Mine shoots much better than that. You have a lemon if shooting 4 moa

[@4MRRanch]

Or you have the lemon but it’s in your favor lol

[@narutobroken]

There have been multiple KZbin videos proving that bad accuracy

[@charltont23]

@@4MRRanch I have several friends that shoot their Lt's under 1 1/2" moa. Blackhills 77 gr and 62 gr mk318 are very good in mine. I get around 1" Moa. Send yours back to sig. Its not normal for 2" - 6" MOA. The other 2 people on youtube that say they have bad accuracy didnt have their barrel properly torqued. Im sure other Lt owners will comment the same that I have. Accurate and very reliable gun.

[@platinummarketingservices8448]

Agreed! Mine shoots MOA. Send it in to sig if your barrel is torqued down correctly to 60 inch pounds. If its not 60 inch pounds tighten and re try your accuracy test. Great gun

[@1jordanledwards1]

Hate yours is so bad. Mine is 1.2 moa for 10 shots @ 100yds

[@4MRRanch]

Going to revisit this with different ammo.

[@1jordanledwards1]

@@4MRRanch 55gr fmj and the 69gr rmr bullets are about the same around 1 - 1.5moa. Shooting handloads with a razor 1-6. Not bad for lower magnification.

[@1jordanledwards1]

Love the channel tho. You helped me with laser purchases!!!

[@6tuf85dyfu]

WHAT'S UP MY SIGGERS!