Why I Don't Use a Bladder for Trail Running

[@JeffPelletier]

I realized too late that the flask cap I mention in this video is no longer available. But you can shop for all of the other products featured in this video at the links in the description. ⤴️

[@cordeiropedro]

I just found out Salomon is making the on/off caps that's even better that that flask cap, because you don't have to change it (specially with tired /shaking hands that get all sticky with sports drink spills). But they are an extra 4 euros on top of the flask price.

[@bikeinmotion]

For races definately flasks. Bladder only on solo adventures when there is no water available for hours

[@22RedEyeJedi22]

during most of my summer training I

[@AllThingsZz]

@@22RedEyeJedi22 what kind of lack do you run with?

[@MichaelLSmith-eg3hn]

Great video, Jeff. For long races (100k and above) I use both bladder and flasks. For the reasons you mention, the bladder is only for water, while the flasks can have ionic. The main reason I carry both is that I can easily skip quite a few aid stations (and saving a lot of time) instead of stopping to fill up flasks. Also, I don't think it's too difficult to fill up a bladder while it's in the pack. Yes, you can't completely fill it up, but I can usually get 1 liter in there and it's fast to do. That's worth doing and carrying, it it means I'll skip the next aid station.

[@dantonchat71]

I use a source bladder with a addon piece you put on place of the mouth bite, so that you can refill the bladder with a regular water bottle. Quite a handy system, the bladder never leaves my trail bag during a race

[@williamchase5698]

Source Tactical Gear 3L Widepac Low Profile Hydration Reservoir

[@GenePavlovsky]

The accessory is called Source UTA, I use it for filling up all the time (including at home).

[@leonda4817]

that's a clever solution!

[@GenePavlovsky]

Properly cleaning and drying a bladder is more hassle, so for shorter runs I use a flask or two. For longer runs, bike rides, when it's hot, etc. (not races, no water stations...), I take either the bladder or bladder plus one or two flasks. I only ever use water in the bladder, for the reasons you mentioned. I use Source Tactical 3 l bladders for hiking and mountain biking (in a Deuter backpack), and a smaller Source Widepac 1.5 l bladder for running (in a running vest). I shortened the original hose, added some neoprene insulation tube to it (easily found on eBay from many sellers), and installed the Source Quick Connector (SQC) kit on the drinking end of the water tube. I use a Source Tactical Storm no-bite valve which plugs directly into the hose connector. Source Tactical also makes an accessory called Universal Tap Adapter (UTA): unplug the drinking valve from the hose, plug in the UTA, and reverse-fill the bladder from a tap, a plastic water bottle, or a drinking flask. This way there's no need to remove the bladder from the backpack/vest. I'll also mention, even though this probably doesn't apply to most running scenarios, that the Platypus Quickdraw water filter comes with a hose that ends with a CPC connector, which is fully compatible with SQC - so the filter can be plugged in instead of the drinking valve to reverse-fill the bladder. Water bladders are indeed more cumbersome to clean, although a few accessories help with this. I only use bladders with a wide opening that I can put my (large) hand into for cleaning. For the hose, I use a Deuter Streamer Tube Brush (by the way, the Deuter Streamer bladders are made by and are identical to Source Outdoor bladders). I use a no-name hydration pack drier (a plastic thing that can fold or spread a bit) to help keep the bladder open for air drying. There are various tricks to minimize the need to clean. If you are too tired after a trip, just throw the (empty) bladder into the freezer, and clean it later. You can also wash/rinse the bladder and the hose, empty it out and, rather than waiting for it to fully dry, keep it in the freezer. Take it out before going out on the next trip. For a deep clean, if the water starts tasting bad, use a citric acid solution (or vinegar, but the water will likely have some vinegar taste later) or a bit of hydrogen peroxide to soak the bladder and the hose. I usually disassemble the drinking valve, clean the individual parts with a brush, then dry them thoroughly. It is indeed inconvenient not being able to tell how much water you have left in the bladder. I am always wondering if in the future someone will develop a flow meter that can be spliced into the hose. Although it would be yet another part that needs cleaning...

[@Trebornotaes]

I'll go against the grain, i prefer bladder,lol. Never had an issues with leaks and find fill/refill with the sliding closure quick and simple.

[@JeffPelletier]

Whatever works for you! I know a lot of people who still prefer bladders. It could be argued that it's just simpler to fill up a single large reservoir and to not mess around with smaller flasks.

[@alexm1841]

I’m a year into trail running and I’ve only used a Nathan hydration pack. The only negative is monitoring my intake and cleaning. Aside from that, refilling is easy with a trust top on the bladder

[@alexm1841]

Ahh. The balance/weigh distribution aspect was a good point as well

[@andyheilmann1656]

I thought you were going to insult bladders in general, and I was about to throw hands! Your points are 100% valid for long distance races, especially filling/refilling. For hiking I think they are still great

[@Harrythehun]

I agree, when I mountain hike with many hours between civilisation I can't risk getting dehydrated and great to be prepared in the case of emergency situations

[@runningwithsimon]

Good stuff - totally agree with all the points. I once realized at the bottom of Grand Canyon my bladder couldn't hold water. Lovely... Only thing I'd add is for hot and fast pace races, I drop the vest during daytime and use handhelds. Really helps cooling down, and minimize your load. Worth trying for races like Javelina or Black Canyon.

[@JeffPelletier]

That’s a great point about the vest - it’s amazing how much heat those can hold in!

[@MicaCardillo]

I've arrived at a slight different setup after a lot of experimenting. The idea came from watching an elite ultra runner cruise by me and at a fast downhill clip. She had no problem reaching behind her to pull out a hard water bottle and then put it back. I believe she had one of those older Solomon packs. In any case, this got my wheels turning. The trick was to find the best size water bottle with the best flip-top cap. I found the Smart water bottles evangelized by thru-hikers were too tall and skinny. A few months later, I was doing some grocery shopping and noticed that next to the Smart bottles they had these 700mL Essentia bottles that were shorter, and their cap design was perfect. I picked up a couple and ordered an Alpha 4.0 vest. After several trials on longer unsupported runs, I figured out that carrying 2 Essentia 700mL hard bottles could be done, but that it was more comfortable to have just one. You only need one for those quickdraw situations on the downhill. To round out my system, I carry a soft flask with a filter up front (so I can quickly react of a great water source all the sudden appears on the trail), and an extra (usually empty) soft flask in the rear. Most of the time, my 700ml hard plastic alone gets me to the next aide station or creek crossing. If there's a particularly long water carry and/or a hot day, I'll fill up the 3rd flask (1L) as an insurance policy, bringing my total capacity to about 2.3. This system allows me to keep a lot more of my calories up front and go longer distances without having to take off my pack for those additional calories. No sloshing. Very little bounce. I think for shorter, faster efforts with aid stations, I might stick with the same system but a smaller vest that has the rear pockets. UltraSpire's Momentum looks good, but maybe one of the other brands has those rear bottle pockets that I should consider?

[@giseleSF1234]

Very good video with excellent points to consider. I've been debating how I want to proceed with my hydration set-up. I'm finally able to be comfortable with a pack - the Salomon Adv Skin 12. However, as with all hydration vests, if I use the flasks up front, the vest bears down on the back of my neck. It is very uncomfortable. This is because I'm a woman who is not skinny and I have these fatty things up front. Because of the need to snug the vest against my body, this causes the flasks to contour with my body and it causes the back of the vest to pull on my neck. When I ran and rode a horse (same time, alternating), wearing the bladder was much more comfortable than having flasks. I landed a small 8 ounce Gatorade from a fellow trail user on the same run/ride as the bladder use. It fit nicely in the front pocket and didn't interfere with my running movement. For purposes of electrolytes, I'd much rather have a bottle I can rinse and later recycle. Though if I get skinny and lose the fatty things in the front, and flasks cease to be a problem, I would possibly switch to carrying electrolytes in the soft flask because those vertical pockets for the flasks are otherwise not handy for anything else that I can think of except perhaps my thin summer sleeves. So in the end, it can depend on body geometry. And I rarely like to entrust well-intended people with property that means the world to me. They can hold the button on the water cooler though! That's a great help while I finagle the hydration pack. Bummer the flask caps are no longer offered. I'd really want to use those if carrying extra flasks.

[@poccari82]

Great video. I would usually rely on flasks, but for longer races I would use an additional bladder as a backup only. However I like your idea of just extra flasks in the back of the pack instead. Thanks for the video

[@skrzynka3]

You are Salomon ambassador - well, I have to say that the Salomon bladder 1.6 l leaks so heavy that there is water just everywhere - the leakage site is below the zipping system and - I do everything correct, so one big disaster for that price.

[@AlexReimerTrail]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who struggles with bladders! 😂

[@JeffPelletier]

😅

[@jonroberts7667]

First time using a bladder.. Heading to a water fountain.. Do I need to fill the bladder... Is there enough to get me to the next water source.. Having to stop and pull it out to get a look... Went right back to water bottles. You always know how much water is in your bottle at any given time.

[@ririemarilyn]

If you don't stand a chance of winning a race, a bladder should be fine. If you're a racer then a wet tissue could be a viable option

[@JeffPelletier]

Wet tissue 😂.. You hit on a good point though, I can get a little carried away in terms of assuming everyone cares about their pace as much as I do. Those few extra minutes might be a totally fine trade-off for others, as bladders do provide benefits as well.

[@helloklho]

Ok, I will switch to flasks. Good points all around.

[@HenkieHeadache]

It takes some experience to know your consumption out of a bladder and if you know how much you need to drink for a certain distance at that day, it's a good way to go for a bladder. I use my bladder a lot when I don't have to refill and use it mostly on solotraining on the trails and occasionly on selfsupplying trailevents aswel. I always carry a spare flask with me, JIC.

[@JeffPelletier]

You're probably right, with time I'm sure I'd learn to get a better sense of how much I'm drinking from a bladder. Good call in using it more for when you likely won't need to refill, thanks!

[@IdRatherBeHiking]

I've done the same, ditched the bladder. I like having 2 flasks with an empty katadyn 3L filter bag in the back if I need to really load up with water.

[@fredrik.eriksson]

Salomons bladder lock is terrible to be honest. Camelbak is much better with their new screw lock that you can't basically fail and takes 1 second to open/close. Their packs open up more also giving more space for the bladder when refilling. I like the benefits with the bottles but I actually find the weight balancing to be more pleasing when it's on my back - giving points to bladder over flasks. They are also easier to fill with powder due to their bigger openings. With flasks I can't use scoops to pour powder so I have to come up with different solutions depending on situation. I find it to be situational and like the mix. Having at least one empty flask with you to mix something else is smart no matter what you aiming for.

[@scottstw456]

Im not very used to getting water on route from streams and such so iv always carried what i needed for the run but i might start trying to filter water on run now.

[@mrkringlan]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I have utilised my bladder in combination with my soft bottles in a specifik way the last months on long unsupported runs - carry water in soft bottles in front and in the bladder I carry VERY strong carbohydrate drink (mixing 500g of carbohydrate mix into 1l of water). That way I can carry a huge amount of carbs, easy to digest, easy to get to, at the same time that I can drink plain water according to my thirst.

[@gracebarrett-johnson]

I’ve been doing the exact same thing. When I go out for more than 3 hours by myself, I have to take my bladder. And I’ve never had leaking problems with my Nathan 1.5 liter bladder, and I find it to be easy to fill up and put in and out of my pack (although I haven’t used a bladder in a race before)

[@nathanjsimpson]

Love the idea of carrying extra flasks. Good tip.

[@ninetynineowls]

I have two reasons for using a bladder: 1) I personally can easily get through 1L of fluid an hour on a hot day. I'm training for an ultra with more than 2 hours between aid and no along-route drops allowed, but the majority of vests don't seem to be equipped with more than about 1L of flask storage, and that was if I didn't also encounter the issue of 2) the fact that as I woman I find it's an absolute nightmare trying to use chest mounted flasks if you have any chest whatsoever. The vest deforms too much over your chest and the flask just doesn't fit in the pocket. If you try to put the vest on with flasks already loaded it feels like you're going to burst them! (If anyone can recommend a vest or belt with more than 1L of non-chest flask storage (or has any other ideas for these problems) I would love to hear them!)

[@JCNegri]

Actually, that is a great idea. All points taken. Following your steps. Still, I just keep a few bladders in the dark spare room for survival mode. You know, in case the Martians arrived and take all the waters.

[@lh3540]

i run with a 1/4 full metal bottle (Idk, I just like it as a quirk). It's good to bang on for animals, or chuck at a coyote if need be. I thought I was clever bringing it all the way full on a longer summer trail run, and dropped the dang thing straight on a toe and broke it 4 miles up. Water is heavy. Do not carry all of it in the same container. Am now team vest/flasks.

[@esthervisser-vandermeer2565]

Good tips, keep them in mind for my first marathon race next month in Rotterdam 👌🏼🏃🏽‍♀️👊🏽

[@lybby2]

This video is great, I recently got my first running vest Solomon Active Skin 8 which I love. I do have a similar conundrum in that I like Nuun in one and water in the other however, I am often running with my dog and like to bring water for her as I have a collapsible bowl too. I think I will take your advice of additional flasks filled and in the back. I am not crazy about bladders but felt I should be ordering one - not anymore. I am curious if you have found these leakproof caps anywhere else as I would like that peace of mind, two back ups filled and not worrying about getting my dry stuff wet. Cheers!

[@clingenpeelc]

I’ve never done an ultra race longer than 50K and they typically have aid stations every 6 miles or so. For races, I only run with a handheld and a gu and cliff bars in my pockets…I don’t carry a pack…it’s just added weight and the add stations are close enough with food and water…I can see if you do a longer race in adverse/changing conditions with larger gaps between add stations you may need to carry more clothes and other stuff and would want a pack…I have done several adventure runs…R2R2R, Zion Traverse, and other 20+ mile runs with not a lot of water available, and always carry a bladder and maybe the front flasks…I find I get much more consistent hydration by having the hose right next to my mouth and all I have to do is sip on it. So easy to do while running…taking the flasks out of the vest while running and then returning is a major pain. So much so, I find I drink less often. Bladder is so much easier to drink out of. If I only need 1 liter of water on a long run that wasn’t a race, I’d opt for the bladder every time. I’ve never had one fail, but agree cleaning is not as easy as a flask. Yes you have to take the pack off your back to refill, but I’ve never had an issue with just opening the pack and refilling…I don’t remove the bladder from the pack…it’s not a race, so it’s really about being able to carry the most water and making it easy to drink.

[@thecrowfliescrooked]

I don't drink water unless I run over 50k.

[@Harrythehun]

Congratulations! I sweat to much and get headaches from dehydration and salt losses.

[@thecrowfliescrooked]

*sarcasm. ​@@Harrythehun

[@pichers5528]

🗿

[@colemanhambleton9464]

You had me at "monitoring fluid intake."

[@kjellruben]

haha...that was late, he had me at "bladder" :D

[@JeffPelletier]

That to me is actually the biggest reason to use flasks over bladders in most cases. A lot of people haven't experienced the other issues I mentioned, but running out of water (or not drinking enough) can be dangerous.

[@jaygrady]

Great video and good to hear your views as always! I'd add that the tipping upside down of a full pack and sucking out the air bubble is a total pain on a race too but not as annoying as that slosh,slosh,slosh if you don't. When I take extra full soft flasks though I've found those blanking caps create that exact noise, so I just use the normal drinking caps and pack them carefully. A bladder IS useful if you want to add weight to the pack on training runs though, 1L is 1Kg obviously and the train hard fight easy mantra makes this a go to for me on long runs, quite a mental boost when you realise a) you don't mind the weight any longer and b) your race day pack is going to be 2.5kg lighter than the one you're used to! I love my soft flasks too though! :)

[@JeffPelletier]

Thanks Jay, that's actually a really good point about weight training and carrying a lot of extra water on training runs is the best strategy IMO. You can always dump it, and of course it never hurts to have extra on a hot day anyway.

[@logiconabstractions6596]

Good points there. Though the "missing volume point" (e.g. you're only using 11L out of a 12L liter pack if not using front flasks) isn't quite accurate, one can always put more stuff in there instead of the flasks.

[@JeffPelletier]

That’s true! I often carry a phone, bear spray, etc up front.

[@lisarunsfast7368]

I totally understand the convenience of flasks over bladders, but I have never found bottles that truly work for me. Im a petite lady and putting a bladder on my back distributes the weight far better. The flasks bounce too much, and have broken skin on my front. Talking about painful. Not to mention, the flasks are too heavy in the front for me. I keep going back to using a bladder because its just more comfortable. My pack came with a bladder anyway.

[@mountfairweather]

I found something similar. Now I carry a flask and have a quick draw on the side of my pack.

[@RyanBetker]

Camelbak bladder (3L) has been reliable n super easy to fill. Perfect for some folks that need more hydration and use water only.

[@williamchase5698]

You should check out these bladders, solves a lot of the problems you talked about Source Tactical Gear 3L Widepac Low Profile Hydration Reservoir

[@parkerliang]

Good idea, Jeff. I decided to buy two extra flasks instead of a bladder because of your valid reasons. Flasks are quicker to swap and fill. As a leak redundancy, it is good to have multiple smaller backups than stored in one large source.

[@JeffPelletier]

Glad to hear you found it helpful! There’s definitely still a time and a place for bladders, but it’s rare.

[@beeclimbing9954]

@Jeff Pelletier, one question you didn't happen to cover: which do you think has the advantage for drinking whilst running? I use both flasks & a bladder because I find drinking from flasks fine when climbing/fast hiking in races (where I'm moving slower). But if I want to drink on downhill or undulating terrain, the hose/bladder situation is less fiddly than pulling out a flask from the front pocket. Granted, I don't like the extra long straws as I don't like them in my face/peripheral vision, which some would say prevents the need to pull the flask from the pocket.

[@JeffPelletier]

Hm, that’s something I’ve never really considered actually. I guess bladders may be a little easier to drink from as you say. I was going to suggest those long straws but you’re right, they kind of get in your way.

[@narrowboatlongpod4176]

If the pockets are suitably positioned then its possible to use flasks without straws. Personally, I like the straws and some vests have clips to keep them out of your face when not drinking.

[@svenfokkema3440]

No need to pull out the flask, or use a straw with the Salomon soft flask.

[@tombargerstock3419]

Great ideas Jeff. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I have been torn between purchasing a bladder or additional flasks. You have made a compelling case for the flasks. Thanks!!

[@JeffPelletier]

Thanks Tom. Good idea to experiment with both, as there may still be a place for a bladder occasionally in your hydration strategy. But if I had to choose one over the other, I'd definitely just go with a handful of spare flasks myself.

[@wazzup105]

Way way back I tried running with a bladder once or twice.. hated it. Too much slushing (even with all the air bled). Nope. Started carrying one (or more) ordinary (plastic) bottle(s) of water (with a diy drinking tube attached) and strangely even an half full bottle didn't bother me a bit... weird. Only later on proper front pocket vests became available and softflasks...

[@LanceWinslow]

Good point about volunteers. I had one at an aid station once, I handed him my handheld and it filled it up with water and got everything else completely soaked, ruined my snacks and my already opened cube wrapper. Now I am like, "NO" - give me the water and I will fill it up myself, 20-seconds and I am gone.

[@mrnobodieswildcampingadventure]

Great idea

[@mikekiss648]

I've always had bladder problems ... especially if I've had too much to drink

[@gilbertamthor5098]

Great idea. As a triathlete i am anal about knowing exactly how much fluid and electrolyte and carbs per hour . Bottle are way better to do that with

[@giorgossifnos1]

I run medium distances, up to 46 kilometers . I usually use flasks. But I believe that in a workout close to 3-4 hours or in a race up to 45 km is better to use the bladder . I like your idea for 2 full flasks and 2 empty . Maybe I'll try it at a race in October. Nice video Jeff. Thanks

[@Pww642]

Bladders just have more capacity. I live in the desert and run with 3 liters of water because there simply isn’t any chance to get more water. You’d need 6 flasks to equal one bladder.

[@elvagar]

I have ran out of water mid way through a 12 hour hike because of bladder, because I didn't ration my water properly. I haven't used it since. For running I only use flasks and if I need more water capacity I use dirt cheap solution. I just take a plastic bottle full of water.

[@micazim]

thanks your sharing

[@wplate]

Thanks Jeff. Great tips. Carrying extra flasks is the way!

[@JeffPelletier]

Thanks Wes!

[@msb3079]

Kinda silly. Depends on what you're doing and how. Not always this or that. Generally, bladder for self supported outings and flasks for races when you're refilling at aid stations. But not always, if you're in a place with water sources, yes, easier with flasks. I feel like this video is shi**ing on bladders, which is absurd. Often, they're the best option and they are very easy to fill and you don't need to take them out like you mention. You complain only being able to put one fluid in a bladder... yeah that's how it works. Can use flasks also for whatever else. Again, should not be "this or that" should be about what's best for use case and they can be used together.

[@hikingthe5095]

I recently bought that same vest and tried using flasks instead of my bladder. My biggest pet peeve with the flasks is I can't ever get them to fit properly into the pockets I just get super frustrated. I also drink water like its going out of style on my runs so having a 1.5-2L bladder is a godsend to me especially in a hot environment where I can fill it 3/4 full of ice when starting my run. I also can't remember the last time I had to actually remove my bladder from any of my vests when refilling from a creek using a filter. I know your argument is removing the bladder and having a good amount of luck to get it to fit properly once refilled but on the other hand I'm running into the same problem with the 2 soft flasks up front.

[@neilp8000]

FWIW, a bladder can be useful if you have to administer an emergency enema (it happened!). I use a bladder/flask combo on long solo runs, however after running dry on a recent outing have got myself an XA flask. Sorted.

[@XEinstein]

In my experience when my shoulder pockets are stuff with bars and other stuff and the flasks are half empty it's also a pain of getting the flask back into the front pocket. Just as difficult as trying to get a full bladder into a full backpack. Adding to the annoyance is that I have to try to wiggle the flask back into it's pocket at every zip I take. For zipping from the bladder all that is required is putting the tube into my mouth. No fiddling required.

[@karenguttridge]

Agree with everything you said-they’re such a faff to refill and I hate cleaning them though using baby bottle sterilising tablets then storing the pack in the freezer works well. Gets rid of the lingering taste issues too 😊👍 ATB Karen

[@ult1006]

It's real problem in the aidstation that's why I don't use bladder anymore. Flask is way better.

[@SkaiSharku]

Have only experienced longer solo runs and having to carry 3liters on me, no real fill up places in between. The one thing I do dislike about a bladder is not being able to gauge how much water there is left. That's I'd say the biggest reason. But that's why I'm sure to first finish up the bladder and then go for the bottles. I can see that for a race that just having bottles to fill up is much more efficient in many ways though.

[@maximelegendre8974]

The water freeze in the hose during winter and can get very hot in a bladder during summer.

[@JeffPelletier]

Yep, the hose really is the worst part about a bladder for either temperature extreme.

[@Brockdorf]

I agree although I do not have a problem filling my bladder up just leaving it in the back. I don't like flasks because they take up most of the food storage room. If someone would invent a product to tell your Garmin how much water you have left, I would have no issue with the bladder.

[@JasonFarrell]

A bluetooth-connected inline one-way flow valve might work for estimating water usage. If valve open, then decrement available liquid by the average human drink rate * how long it was open for. A spring-loaded one-way valve would mean that you couldn't blow air back into the bladder, though... Trade-offs.

[@Brockdorf]

@@JasonFarrell I found one, Camelback makes an inline flow meter

[@JasonFarrell]

@@Brockdorf Yeah, looks like it was released 10 years ago, was inaccurate, and the product recalled. No one else has attempted to improve on it again. Kindof a niche product, so not much $$$ there.

[@michaelpapadopoulos4957]

Great practice. Couldn't agree more. I use to carry 2 flasks with CHO or Electrolytes and a 1/4 full Bladder just to have some clean water with me. If a need to i will fill the bladder too, or wash my face, or give it someone else since i don't drink from that hose. The greatest truth is i never have a clue how much water i carry in a bladder. (also you posted the video on my birthday :-) )

[@willneverforgets3341]

I only use a bladder in very hot summer days for long runs, with few opportunities to refill, but never in races for the reasons you state.

[@mrtrailesafety]

Random thoughts: I’ve been a hard-bottle user since 1989. The Salomon flask is a limp-dick date-night shove-in at an aid station. The Out There pack was the best designed I’d used. I’ve worked too many aid stations and seen people stagger in with a 3/4 full bladder ... dehydrated.

[@JeffPelletier]

Haha, that does describe the flash pretty accurately ;). I've just found hard bottles sometimes start to hurt my ribs after a few hours/days.

[@meangirlbecca]

I haven't had a good experience running with bladders. They feel heavy and the water sloshes around and creates a lot of bouncing. I've found that bladders are great for hiking or walking when you're not sweating profusely and don't want to take off your backpack to drink water.

[@DScanes]

Salt in 1 flask, sugar in the other, water in the bladder. That way you can monitor usage of sugars and salts easy and plain water on a long run is always nice.

[@christianpfeiffer7015]

I like the idea. Gonna design it like that for myself. Thank you for sharing your experience :-)

[@mortonmedia]

500ml water right, 500ml tailwind left, all day all night

[@JeffPelletier]

Sounds like a good plan to me. I started experimenting with Tailwind last year and it's a great product.

[@cordeiropedro]

I used to use exactly the same old Salomon backpack pocket to put the 2 extra flasks. Now I put them in the compressport belt during winter longs then when the all the water points are still frozen.

[@kalleleman]

I agree bladders are a hassle. But I like having the extra water. My vest is a lightweight one with only a cargo net, but I'm gonna try to rig a way to carry two extra bottles like you said.

[@RSmod]

A bladder will make me feel more secure especially in the hot conditions . however , it is not convenience when I try to refill it.

[@mikelivesey5044]

I've experienced all those downsides of bladders, plus I find them difficult to fill up to the nominal capacity.

[@abeeral-qattan5997]

I agree with you . i carry 4 flasks .. had terrible experience with a bladder in an ultra and stopped using them ever since

[@desorourkeflytying1823]

Really well explained Jeff. I had so many questions around this

[@wordpress4373]

When you are in the mountains and you are missing water and its that time of year when there is still some snow left or just some new snow has fallen, you can stuff snow into the bladder and it will melt on your back from the heat as you continue your trail.

[@JeffPelletier]

Good point! Having said that, you could probably do the same with a flask and stuff it inside your jacket instead close to your chest where it may melt even faster.

[@MiccaPhone]

For me non of them are proper solutions due to the plastic taste that never goes away, no matter the manufacturer or material. Only PET bottles from the supermarket work.

[@MrJackson38]

Only used a bladder pack once, it leaked and damaged my phone so loved your video and great tips 👍

[@JeffPelletier]

Yep, there you go.

[@frabi23]

Just gotta make sure your flask fits perfectly into your vest. That's why I always stick to Salomon and their bottles. Nothing is worse than a flask bouncing around like a floppy c*.

[@JeffPelletier]

I hate a floppy flask. The newer Salomon packs are nice in that they have the hoops at the top of the pockets for the flasks to hold on to them when they're half-empty.

[@pat55378]

You make several valid points but one feature I like with my bladder is the insulated sleeve. I'm doing a 50k this weekend and plan on starting with a bladder with half ice, half water so I can have cold water while I run. Once the bladder is empty I'll switch to flasks for easier refills. At my pace, the few grams of extra weight to carry both won't make a difference. In most cases, however, I'd prefer flasks for a race, or better yet, a handheld if I don't need the gear storage of a vest.

[@SvetLana-mt1vg]

Great video. Thanks for the tips with volunteers ;)

[@JeffPelletier]

Glad it was helpful!

[@pavelk4437]

Another point is that flasks on the front side make it easier to distribute payload weight better. With a bladder especially a big one a backpack may have a tendency to shift its position.

[@danniseliger5172]

Redundancy is a super important concept - depending of course on how isolated you are on that trail.

[@mtrout3394]

I do ultras. Bladder for water, flasks for carb drink......

[@johncooper3171]

Hi Nice video. How do you get rid of that plastic taste in flasks/bladders? Thanks Jc.

[@JeffPelletier]

I find that to be less of a problem with the Salomon-branded Hydrapak products, but any lingering taste should go away after a few uses/washes.

[@johncooper3171]

Thanks Jc.

[@OmarAbdulMalikDHEdMPASPACPAPro]

If it's really hot and humid and, I'm doing a long run (more than 20 miles/50k), I use water bottles and a bladder. It's a heavy load but, I've crashed before from under hydration🥵. I don't use bladders in races though. Also, I only put water in my bladder b/c the sports drinks lead mildew in the mouthpiece.🤢

[@brentvanzyl-downtoearthwoo5681]

Perhaps drop salomon and check out osprey with their easy click and off bladder system and having used both salomon and osprey, the osprey os far better quality all round. The name is overated to some extent with there being many better products by other brands available, the salomon is known for their clip system to bonk out across the range too. Dont pay for a name.. pay for quality, do your research and you can get both

[@JeffPelletier]

Thanks Brent, I should have probably clarified that it's less about the hose attachment failing and more just about occasional user error in not attaching it correctly. But perhaps Osprey's are designed better.

[@matsmith1984]

Great video, Jeff. I was considering getting a bladder to supplement the two flasks in my vest but I've seen the light, so to speak, and you've swayed me to opt for two spare flasks stowed away to be swapped out when needed. Really useful and insightful video.

[@JeffPelletier]

Glad to hear it! It really comes down to having the right tools for the job, and in some cases you might still find a bladder helpful. It's a good idea to experiment with both to decide what works best for you.

[@today-nl]

I have 2 Solomon flasks and just would like to buy a bladder for extra water during the solo long trail run. Thanks for the great video which saves my money and trouble. I will buy 2 extra flasks.

[@JeffPelletier]

Good choice! Let me know how it works out for you.

[@bctrailbagger]

Agreed... bladders suck! The cap system seems better though. No way would I risk taking a bladder out to fill it during a race... nevermind the hose. The big camel hump bouncing around is definitely a con too. All good points... I also like having a more concentrated drink mix in one and water in the other. You can certainly carry more water in bladders, so that's a con with bottles... but with carrying a spare bottle and filter system on a route with water it negates that entirely. Especially was a fast filter system. Cheers

[@JeffPelletier]

So true, and not just the camel bump bouncing but the sloshing as well from a bladder drives me crazy.

[@youpigirl5731]

uniquement flasks pour moi. Pas de problème de vessie qui devient chaude au contact du dos, à moins de la mettre dans une poche isotherme, mais cela alourdit encore le sac. Et puis, le bruit de l'eau dans la vessie qui est secouée, c'est horrible. Il y a un système pour rendre silencieux mais compliqué si on doit recharger la vessie en cours de route

[@JeffPelletier]

Je suis tout à fait d'accord.

[@tobiasschneider8075]

Couldn't agree more! As of now, I only use my bladder for hiking. Carrying several flasks is a great idea, thanks a lot :) Btw: does a bigger isolation jacket fit into the Salomon ADV Skin 12? I am asking because my running vest (5 liters) is too small for me, so I am looking for a bigger one that can store my change of clothes and some warmer layers...

[@JeffPelletier]

The 12L is way roomier than the 5L, but it’s tough to say without knowing your specific jacket. I can easily stuff my Arc’teryx Cerium SL at the bottom in a Zip Lock bag and it only takes up maybe 1/3 of the space.

[@laurabogardus9868]

I now like the idea of using a flask. Thank you -great idea!

[@chrislee3350]

Thanks Jeff. Would have been useful to compare bouncing/ ergonomics...

[@JeffPelletier]

Yea, bouncing is another issue with bladders, although I suppose flasks aren’t great ergonomically.

[@JimLaheysPants]

Youre not wrong...bladders are a pita. I like the extra flask/bottle in the flask pocket idea. Much less fuss and muss.

[@JeffPelletier]

PITA pretty much sums it up ;)

[@cliftonmadden1992]

The slider on the Salomon bladder is over designed which makes it unnecessarily difficult to open and close. I have one but I also have a 2 liter Nathan that is much easier to open and close. I agree that bladders are not the best for competitive runs that have aide stations. I use my bladder mostly for long training runs where there are no aid stations. Very thoughtful VLOG! Thanks!

[@JeffPelletier]

Thanks! I’ve never used a Nathan pack or bladder, but that’s good to know.

[@EricSheffey]

Not being able to monitor my fluid intake while using a bladder has left me incredibly dehydrated at marathons, and so I almost exclusively only use flasks now. Same even for my long hikes in the backcountry, I tend to carry nalgenes now instead of a bladder, and keep them in a rotation for filtration and use. And I agree, many bladders are a huge pain to fill during races. I still remember when I was volunteering for an ultra trail run a few years ago how much of a struggle it was to get the racer’s bladders filled quickly and efficiently for them, and how difficult some of their bladders were to close up properly without making a mess.

[@JeffPelletier]

💯

[@garyloosemore2690]

Definitely knowing how much fluid you have is a real advantage to flasks. I have had a few "What - can't be running out already?" moments with my bladder. Time to look at carrying flasks. I might have to continue carrying a bladder to serve as water source for my partner though! :-)

[@JeffPelletier]

I think using them both in combination can be a good strategy as well. But it's always good to experiment for yourself to see what works best.

[@vlcince]

That Salomon XA filter flask is really a game changer at least for me. In my beginnings I used to run a lot with a bladder but not anymore. With the flask I am able to refill my water almost everywhere.

[@JeffPelletier]

Totally agree, I absolutely love mine.

[@olivierdormond8433]

Dear Jeff. Where did you get the flask cap showed at 7;58 on the video? Thanks a lot keep doing these great videos

[@JeffPelletier]

Hey Olivier, unfortunately it looks like that’s no longer available, at least not in North America 😕

[@Eric-469]

I'm strictly flasks on runs (which I'm new- it could change one day). Bladders for backpacking where water carry's may be long and where time is generally not of the essence.

[@JeffPelletier]

Yep, totally agree.

[@ajdvecjemput]

I have a problem that happened twice with my bladder - in sub 0 celzius weather on the longer run the bladder "pipe" got frozen and I was left without water.

[@JeffPelletier]

The hose freezing is the toughest part. There are insulation sleeves but I'm not sure how well they work..

[@nicolasmachado447]

I think it's a really good idea...Didn't know why i'd never thought about it...Thx

[@JeffPelletier]

Glad this was helpful!

[@grimmus1980]

Hi Jeff, i love your videos. I did the Tot Dret race last year and realised the o-ring connector on my bladder became faulty when i was at the gear check-in at Gressoney. It started to leak so badly i could not use it. I'll stick with flasks from now on !

[@JeffPelletier]

That’s exactly what has happened to me in the past. I should have clarified in the video that it’s less about a faulty or leaking bladder, and more about the chance of user error when connecting the hose which is bound to happen to all of us at least once.

[@deanmilne6744]

Use both... Problem solved 😂