Why I Don't Use Fountain Pens

[@ThiagoMedeirosGeo]

What you describe about a pen drying out overnight should not happen with a properly tuned fountain pen. And what you describe about the feeling against the paper, you need what is called a "feedbacky" nib. Your Visconti is quite the opposite of that, a really smooth / polished tip. If you try a Platinum or Sailor EF nib, you'll be hooked ;)

[@jiangongluo1093]

Platinum or Sailor f or mf nib will do. EF is just so scratchy.

[@MilatovichFamily]

I have fountain pens from my parents and their fountain pens as well as mine from elementary school days(it was mandatory to write with it whole time in elementary school. And when you have proper gold nib pen like Pelikan, Saylor, Montblanc is just amazing. I have totally different handwriting than with ball point pen.

[@bobak5126]

and how much does this proper tuning cost? Who can do that?

[@ThiagoMedeirosGeo]

@@bobak5126 ideally they should come like that from the factory, but we know how it goes. The name of professional pen nib tuners is "Nibmeister". Google that and find someone in your area! Alternatively, shops like Appelboom and Penrealm have in-house nibmeisters who can check / tune pens before shipping. Best regards

[@babbisp1]

Gotta love that cone on his head lol

[@dampfnudel6801]

Non of my fountain pens have ever dried out. And also a good Extra Fine Nib should have no problem with fast writing.

[@PerfectBiscuits]

By "dried out", I don't mean completely dried out. I just mean dried out to the point where I have to get the nib a little wet to get it flowing again. And the fast writing issues specifically have to do with the Palmer Method style of writing, where you are starting your initial strokes with a lot of speed. If you haven't studied Palmer Method writing or arm writing of some kind, you probably don't understand what I mean.

[@monkey_kang]

never used a dip pen. love to try it out some time

[@PerfectBiscuits]

You can get a holder, a few nibs, and some ink for less than $20. See my recommendations here: thepalmermethod.com/palmer-method-tools-supplies/

[@TheLindaLWeeks]

I wasn't aware that this was involving pens and inks - but I did find a good recipe for biscuits! Good luck with your work!

[@deshan314]

Why I don't use ballpoints? I just hate them. They are scratchy and you have to press them hard to the paper to get them to write. And when I have to use one it has always dried out. They are just annoying. But I love my fountain pens. So there is no way to convince me to use a ballpoint. 😄

[@PerfectBiscuits]

Exactly. Use what works for you.

[@pagisubuh]

@@PerfectBiscuits indeed

[@ccxu4764]

"And the fast writing issues specifically have to do with the Palmer Method style of writing, where you are starting your initial strokes with a lot of speed. If you haven't studied Palmer Method writing or arm writing of some kind, you probably don't understand what I mean" I do palmer, and I know exactly what you mean. I also do chinese calligraphy and false start is even more problematic. Not trying to convince you because you are happy with what you have. But after a few years in this hobby (writing with fp, not collecting fp), I realized that most people new to fp don't know that a well tuned $30 fp is way better than a stock $150 gold nib fp. Bring (or buy) your pen to a penshow, book a timeslot with the onsite nibmeister and sit down with him. Tell him how you want the pen to write (how wet you want the ink flow, whether you want more resistance or smoothness in the nib, line width, etc etc). Let him tune it, you try it, hand it back if it's still not exactly how you like it, repeat for 3-5 times and you got a personalized, perfectly tuned (for your writing style) nib. I have some fp that is tuned so well that it's unlike any other writing experience (even compared to new, very expensive $$$$ 4 digit fp), and I cherish writing with them (not all of them are tuned for business cursive) (And BTW, like many other mentioned, quite a few FP models have spring loaded cap and those don't dry out , the cheapest is a platinum preppy for $4 with said cap, but you still want to tune the nib for your desired ink flow)

[@EpicCookieGamer]

These are valid points. Respect the preferences. I just disagree. I prefer a fine, wet nib with Noodlers Black and I’ve never had an issue with drying out and taking fast notes. It may have something to do with your pen seal and/or type of ink. I dislike ballpoints because they take too much hand pressure to use and messes with my posture too much.

[@Insomniium]

Try a Platinum 3776 F or EF or a Pilot PO. All the problems you listed actually come from a bad fountain pen, not all fountain pens are like that.

[@imsathyasekar]

I love your videos and have been learning the Palmer style using them. I use fountain pens mostly and love them. But you are right on a few points here- I agree that not all paper is suitable for an enjoyable writing with fountain pens, you need to have suitable paper. For Palmer writing specifically, I have struggled using Broad and even Medium nibs. As you have said, the level of control required is higher than what these pens can serve. I tried using a roller and ball point but I found my fingers tiring faster. So I got myself an Extra Fine nib pen and that works perfectly for me. I have never faced the ink drying out issue. Most modern pens I have used write great even after remaining unused for a week. I guess this may be a specific pen or brand issue. Overall, for enjoying writing, I still think fountain pens are the way to go, though I can see the value of other kinds with lesser or more normal paper. I haven't used dip pens yet.. Will try that also.

[@nope8535]

I have literally free and sub 10 dollar fountain pens that dont dry out after months of no use. Literally just picked up a pen not used for 3 months that I got for 2 dollars. Wrote fine. When you start with a false premise then everything else is suspect.

[@barfy362]

I'm new to fountain pens and can't speak on the use of them for Palmer Method but I'd just like to say I have never had the experience of my EF or F pen nibs drying out (they are all inked with Noodler's Black). I just tested my Pilot Kakunos (F and EF) that have been sitting horizontally on my desk for over a week and they wrote instantly. The same goes for my eyedropper Ranga pens fitted with F and EF Jowo #6 nibs. Regarding your issue with feeds not keeping up with your handwriting, I know certain ebonite feeds would reduce that problem substantially if not create a new problem of making the feed too wet.

[@mjcossel6136]

Agreed. I think he just had some bad pens. My husband uses cheap EF Pilots and has none of these problems, no drying out or hard starts.

[@juicylouisey]

Try an Opus 88 pen. It has a massive ink capacity and you can adjust the amount of ink getting into the feed.

[@peteresher4580]

I totally agree, dip pens are wonderful.

[@vinhtantran]

You should try Platinum fountain pen. They have "slip sealing mechanism" that was advertised to help dry-out problem to up to 2 years.

[@clc3897]

Which pen are you referring to since I know there are a few to choose from.

[@vinhtantran]

@@clc3897 Platinum 3776 for example.

[@russellstutler8234]

@@vinhtantran My Platinum Century 3776 pens never dry out. I have the extra fine and ultra extra fine nib.

[@mjcossel6136]

Platinum Preppy! Under $10 for a cheap, great pen.

[@arnar8238]

If your fountain pen does that (drying after 24 h) it is defective.

[@randallrobinson827]

There are several variables that impact fountain pen writing: wetness of ink, type of nib, type of feed, paper grade, how the pen is stored, just to name a few. Some of your problems with fountain pens are remediable. I find that a comprehensive collection in a set of a fountain pen, a ballpoint, a rollerball, and a mechanical pencil will cover all the bases I need.

[@dragoninnight]

Wish I could give you my cheap Lamy-look-alike FP from Viet Nam, it seems perfect for what you need. If you want to try FR again, I suggest looking into Asian Pen. We have some crazy good EF nips and there is a market for signature pens, so they are designed with no failed start and to be unused for a while.

[@DB-cx6cb]

I look the dip pen with any nib for any style, and especially the inexpensive cost! The $200 plus fountain pens are limited to the no that is fixed, and they do have limited availability. I would not ever spend $200 plus when I can write unlimited fine to broad strokes with a Dip nib holder, simply change out whatever nib I decide to use. Your comment is hitting the mark!❤

[@victoriapoggenpohl7493]

Whqt paper are you using for your dip pens. Mine seems to bleed unless I'm using HEAVY cardstock.

[@PerfectBiscuits]

Just like a fountain pen, it's all about the combination of ink and paper. Not that you were comparing to fountain pen ink, but in my experience, dip pen ink is less likely to bleed on paper than fountain pen ink. Walnut ink is a really solid ink that will work on almost any kind of paper, just not very cheap paper. The only issue is that it's brown, not black. Good black inks are Higgins Eternal or Moon Palace Sumi. For paper, I recommend the Kokuyo Campus paper on my website here: thepalmermethod.com/palmer-method-tools-supplies/. Rhodia paper pads are also really popular and work well with dip pens.

[@victoriapoggenpohl7493]

@@PerfectBiscuits thanks!

[@christenalloccoturney1835]

You know I love me a good dip pen 😂😂. I just got my first two fountain pens ever, Lamy Safaris, both the medium and fine. I have had the occasional dry moment with the medium nib, but otherwise I’ve really enjoyed using them. Of course, I’m not experienced in the Palmer method/BP...but for taking notes in cursive at work, it’s been great for me. Interesting thoughts though. You do what works for you! I’m about to take a cursive class with Amy Owens and was planning to use the fountain pens. I’ll let you know if I change my mind lol!

[@PerfectBiscuits]

Haha, don't change your mind!

[@gordonhall9943]

I rarely use FP these days. I practice OP with dip pens of course. Sailor 1911 L EF is what you need if you wanna give fountain pen a shot. Goulet doesn't know anything about penmanship and what penmans like. The Sailor 21K EF nib doesn't dry after months of in the drawer, excellent ink flow and feedback. I can send you mine to try. ;)

[@PerfectBiscuits]

Getting a lot of conflicting experiences with fountain pens drying. I think another factor to consider is humidity. Not sure where you live, but it's pretty dry here in Michigan for 5-6 months out of the year, plus my home is pretty dry on top of that. I bet if I kept my pen in a little humidifier it wouldn't dry out.

[@arturooui]

I have a modern Platinum desk pen with a fine nib. It’s a little boring as far as line sensitivity goes but it writes a thin line and never skips or fails to write. I have experienced pens that have the inconsistencies that you mention but I just don’t use them. Life is too short. I find that writing with a quality antique fountain pen is the most satisfying for me. Unfortunately many of the best writers are quite expensive but generally they all seemed to beat modern pens in quality of line and sensitivity. Although my experience is limited with dip pens I think that they are an interesting area that I have not explored as yet.

[@_davidsynth]

Hello! Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Its a piece of Matt McCormick there in your back wall? Happy writting!

[@PerfectBiscuits]

No, nothing by Matt McCormick on the wall.

[@thiagao31]

You should try a Sailor EF, all of those problems will disappear. Especially these hardstarts

[@bkr_418]

Have you considered Platinum pens? I use bic crystal almost exclusively for similar reasons to the ones you’ve listed. Platinum pens in the EF are about as close as I can get to something comparable.

[@PerfectBiscuits]

Like a Platinum Preppy?

[@sergiomarincontreras5647]

When I was a Teenager, in my middle school was mandatory the Fountain Pen . Now I am 62 years old and I keep some fountain pens for writing.

[@charlestuthill2928]

I definitely get using the tools that work for you. For that reason, I gravitate to simple, well made ebonite eyedroppers from India, with ebonite feeds. I do a lot of work on my nibs as well, mostly because I enjoy creating a tool that really fits my needs. I do not have any of the problems you describe, but then again, that's just what works for me.

[@carlas.artnook]

Not even going to try to convince you and I respect the way you feel about those pens, but as Fountain Pen user since a kid I have to say David that the only problem I found in using fountain pens is me. Because I use it and I let them fall and then is when they start not behaving the way I like but mostly is ink that starts coming out or the nib gets damage. But other than that I never had problems with dry nibs. That's why I stay loyal to Lamy and even though there's a lot of expensive fountain pens that look gorgeous my Lamys do never fail on me... and I refuse to pay more than 50 bucks for one just because of the look of it and yes all my pens have EF nibs. But I love your insight on this matter. 👍

[@kamael1125]

ok. So. You have absolute right to not like writing with fountain pen as much as anyone else. But you don't have right to talk BS. 1. I used fountain pens since I was a kid. Cheap Parker pens for few quid. Chinese knockoffs...None of them dried out for me in 24 or 48h. I don't know what are you using...but if that's the Visconti you are talking about...you need to get it fixed or returned. 2. refills argument. I hear ya. If you are using bottled ink...obviously it is a bit of a hassle to refill the pen. Some enjoy it...some don't... But you do have ink cartridges that replenishing takes the same amount of time as your ball point. And if you are so busy that you don't have the time to do it more often than the ball point...Fountain pen is the least of your worries. 3. Pen starting. That is true. To certain degree. I have TWSBI mini that is horrible at the start. I need to either press it hard against the paper or start it on the side...But that's not the issue with fountain pens in general....it is issue with the nib. On the other hand I have Lamy Studio and parker....(the one above Jotter) and they both run from the second you touch the paper with no issues whatsoever. 4. Nib too smooth - agree...matter of preference I guess. But again, you saying that fountain pens are too smooth and you need to get them customised on the side to get them to give you enough of feedback is yet another pile of steaming poo. What you need to do is to go to a pen store and try out different brands and different nibs until you find what you need. Just to repeat myself...If you just said: I simply don't like writing with fountain pens....I would have no problem with that whatsoever. But instead you jumped straight onto general assumptions blaming everything else other than yourself while making really uneducated, untrue general statements. The biggest argument against using Fountain pen on day to day basis is paper and workplace requirements: - Regular cheap notebooks, or stuff that you get in the office or...printer paper are horrible when used with fountain pens. To the point where your signatures look like a massive blob...rendering fountain pens useless in that environment. - A lot of workplaces forbid to use fountain pens due to smudging, liquid damage etc. - Traveling with pen in your pocket, especially flying...is asking for trouble unless you are careful an know what your are doing.

[@DieyenDualPen]

I had a nib customized by nibs.com. Before that my visconti pen was horrible when it came to false starts, but now it's a pretty top notch pen now. I certainly do feel you on the #1 complaint: nibs drying out is the worst. I tend to use the pen like a dip a lot of time.

[@officialprinceharrydukeofs2420]

Really informative. Thanks you for this video.

[@kamael1125]

This vid is everything but informative :D It's bunch of subjective opinions based on little experience from what I can tell.

[@lindasue8719]

When you say slippery are you talking the pen itself, or how it responds to the paper? From my own experience some fountain pen makers want to create a cool looking pen with a very glossy body and I have found **those** so slippery to hold, that I've had to get rid of them

[@PerfectBiscuits]

I was talking about the nib on the paper, but yes some fountain pens (or any kind of pen) can become slippery in your hand which is no good.

[@sea_heathen]

I’m not going to try and convince you, everyone has preferences and I respect that. Saying that I use a Lamy safari for my watch keeping log at work and on my days of rest which is 6 days, I come back to work and it starts right away no issue. I’ve tried to convert my wife but she prefers ball point and that’s that.

[@Fernandohe111]

I began with fountain pens (I have three, but there is just one that I like to use) before I even knew about writing with the arm, so I am getting used to write with the arm for fountain pen (and the quality of my letters are the same, in ball point as in fountain pen, so I end up prefering the fountain pen, because the color is superior, "the black is more black"). But I do have a few zebra g nibs and its true that its easier than the fountain pen, and I think easier than the ball point as well. But I don't use the dip pen, because its more saturated than the fountain pen, and messes up the other side of the page; and its a bit of sentimentalism, since I like the pen so much.

[@PerfectBiscuits]

Fair enough! Surprised your dip pen is bleeding through the paper and your fountain pen is not. Usually it's the other way around, but I don't know what ink you're using with the dip pen.

[@Fernandohe111]

Pelikan 4001 blue-black, more of a fountain pen ink, but works with dip pens.

[@stuartbradley2692]

I hear you but I'm going to persevere.

[@plouteo6612]

TL/DR: Fountain pens dry out, EF dry out faster than broader nibs. I get false starts. Too smooth and slick for arm mov't. Prefers ink flow in vintage Esterbrook nib.

[@GeneHouse]

There's not many absolutes in writing, you've done it long enough to know. So trying to convince you fountain pens are the best is futile and probably inaccurate. With that said, I do love fountain pens and use them daily. But I also use ballpoints, dip, gel, pencils etc. I probably write the most with a Uni SXR-5 in a Uni One host body - my perfect daily jotter. I can speak at length as to why if interested. With respect to the issues you mentioned - hard starts, speed of ink flow, friction (not to slippery) and sitting for days without drying out, then I would simply say buy a cheap TWSBI ECO EF. You appear to write as much as I do, so odds are you gave it a whirl and found it lacking with regard to meeting your needs. Cheers, and keep up the fine penmanship...

[@thorhilda]

It saddens me that you advise against fountain pens on these grounds because it only reflects your inexperience. No, fountain pens do not dry out in matter of hours. What you have described is a defective pen. An ordinary fountain pen will start without any problems after several months of disuse. Nibs come in a wide variety of roughnesses, from extremely smooth to scratchy. It is up to you, the user, to polish the nib to your taste. If you want more feedback, simply roughen the nib with the appropriate sandpaper. The same applies to the ink flow. You can adjust the nib to make it drier or wetter, as you wish. Newer pens usually have a dry, smooth nib, as it is easy to make them rougher and wetter, but not the other way around. I suspect that you have not adjusted your pen to your need and, unluckily, you have bought a pen with a non-airtight cap.

[@dc-wp8oc]

So, what fountain pens would you recommend that do not cost a fortune?

[@markcollins2876]

I love fountain pens, but dip pens are cool.

[@parappathenappa1429]

The penmanship masters of the 19th and early 20th century would have used dip pens, right? On that note, have you ever used a bird's quill?

[@PerfectBiscuits]

Yes, they were using dip pens for the most part. I'm sure some of them used fountain pens as they became popular though, but they didn't use them when they were trying to produce their best work, as far as I understand. And yes, I've used a quill, but a fairly broad edge quill that you would use for writing italic or other types of broad edge calligraphy.

[@oscarcalva2189]

Fountain pens don’t dry out if you keep them capped and if you use GOOD pens (a crappy pen is a crappy pen fountain or not). I have pens which I havent used MONTHS and each time I pick them up they write as if recently primed. “I write too fast for the pen” once again, you use crappy pens with bad feeds that cannot get proper ink flow, fountain pens ARE meant to be used FAST, faster than what you can get from a roller or ballpoint (remove the pressure and see how fast you can write). “Super slick” depends on the nib you use, if you want more control, use nibs with more feedback, without even a special grind (sailor’s for example). A lot of false facts on your video.

[@thestevenbell]

I'm with you. Fountain pens are often more trouble than they are worth but there are some upsides like being able to switch up inks and getting a very wide line for larger work. For practice I prefer gel pens like a Pilot G2 fine.

[@clc3897]

Jake Weidman has just the opposite take on this subject. Goulet are the wrong people to talk to. They are great people, but I doubt they understand the technicalities of penmanship. Keep in mind that fountain pens were a thing before ball point pens. I would love to sit in a laboratory with all the different nibs and pens and try them all out. If the pen dries out it is not a quality pen. I have a Mont Blanc that has been sitting for months and yesterday when I wrote with it it started the moment it touched paper and it is a fine nib. I also have a Conklin broad nib that can sit for five minutes and when I pick it up to write with it it takes a while for the ink to flow again. The ink is also important. Some inks are designed for dipping even though they can be used in fountain pens. Those inks can cause various problems with flow, because of the various things they add in the ink to give you the different colorings in one ink bottle. Diamine inks have a variety of colors and I love that. However some of the inks if they sit for too long, will have a bit of a built up that cause the pen to stop writing. So it is important to know these things before jumping in with fancy inks. Cartridge converters are much better than cartridges, because you can adjust the amount of air inside the cartridge. I have two pens that are exactly the same. In one I have a cartridge and the other one a converter. The cartridge always takes time to let the ink flow, whereas the converter allows the ink to flow better. For me ball point pens are best for drawing. I can write with them just fine, but I like them more for drawing. I have used all sorts of ball point pens from Mont Blanc to BIC and everything in between, but I still love my fountain pens for writing and journaling. Of course, this means having the right kind of paper as well. The best cheap paper I have found is the Campus brand notebooks you can buy on Amazon. I have never seen paper like that. I have all sorts of fancy paper journals, but none of them compare with these student notebooks made in Japan. There is absolutely no ghosting and the paper is so smooth and lovely to write on, I make excuses to just copy quotes and draw letters just so I can write in it.

[@PerfectBiscuits]

Listen to Jake for sure. He's forgotten more about penmanship than I'll ever know.

[@TheTimeDetective42]

I agree. They were superseded for a reason. Wooohoooo!

[@jamesjoyce2528]

Totally with you. Fountain pens are grossly overrated. You have to hold the fountain in a particular way, with nib facing down, some FPs even have a particular angle. What's more, today even disposable gel pens and rollerball pens have amazing quality and ease of use. Plus gel/rollerball pens have none of the fuss and mess of fountain pen cartridges, cartridge converters, having to buy ink, ink on fingers, leaking, drying out, having to store the pen face up or face down, etc. Gel pens, rollerball pens, and ballpoints today are vastly superior to fountain pens.

[@raba2d723]

you are just trying to get views, honestly

[@PerfectBiscuits]

@@raba2d723 i made this video after years of people asking me about fountain pens, in retrospect, it doesn’t really matter what I think