Why I'm quitting the 'skeptical' community

judge for yourself.
• Video
-I only made it half way through this. It was just FUBAR!
They were doing this less than 24 hours after the shooting.
www.denverpost.com/2017/05/15/...
but the 'sceptical' community expects higher ethical standards than you.
• Discussing Candid with...

[@Thunderf00t]

if you're pushing the agenda that cos a twitchy guy got whacked out on shrooms and blew his girlfriend away, is 'cos feminism'....before the bodys even cold...... it might be time to question if your actions are tribalistic ideology, or fact based inquiry.

[@cocospops9351]

Thunderf00t Totally agree man. Disappointed in sargon to be honest

[@Blackmore278]

So does this mean you will only be making science videos then? I would be alright with that. Its the only reason why I am subscribed at all to be honest.

[@alms07]

Gallows humor is wrongthink Thunderf00t 2017

[@dominiccantwell]

Thunderf00t will you still be disproving kickstarters?

[@TheDaveknight47]

Thunderf00t the joke policeman.

[@JesseSwaney]

Wow, the like/dislike radio.. I guess the skeptic "community" had a hard time looking at their own community with skepticism.

[@DaInternetBear]

In retrospect, he hit the money on the head, applicable to this day. At the time I was a mindless right-wing troglodyte that just went with it, but this video was the turnaround for me that showed extremism on either side is detrimental. Being callous and rude doesn’t progress conversation, it just antagonises mindlessly

[@JesseSwaney]

@@DaInternetBear That's good to hear man. I will always consider myself a skeptic. But yeah, the community has gotten out of control. They've been deeply infiltrated by SJW rhetoric. Not that there aren't nuggets of truth in most communities. But their agendas pollute the cause.

[@joiscode3832]

Yah

[@DaInternetBear]

@@JesseSwaney Everything argued is based on truths tinged with opinion. Nowadays I just don’t like the conflict. Its fun to have a cause, but you end up realising taking sides isn’t as valid as extracting the best of both sides. The left wing is the most radicalised sect of well intentioned people outside religion, but their execution is so braindead it makes them seem foolish. The right wing is trying to bring back balance to the socio-political system but do it in a way that makes them inherently adversarial

[@professordrmao6321]

Ironic

[@Jim-so3zm]

Honestly, I don't know much about Thunderfoot. But there certainly is no denying that the skeptic 'community' is pure cancer. The whole Kraut debacle and all the shit with Kilroy has brought the true nature of the community to the fore.

[@StrazdasLT]

Its like any other youtube community ever. It will get together, start growing, egos start not fitting anymore and they start fighting eachother. Interpersonal drama, but filmed for all world to see. I try to avoid such videos in general.

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

Strazdas how do you do that? All the toxicity has been affecting my mental health and shit.

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

Strazdas I also fear that the same will happen to Breadtube.

[@hewitttribe5536]

@@StrazdasLT Hey fnaf wasn't bad

[@salmenzbroder452]

Good for you, Thunderfoot. I am behind you 100%.

[@taofist]

Thunderf00t is right about his main point: the "skeptical community" is not a "community" worth being part of. Better to just be independent and tell the truth best you can.

[@ketaminemoose6680]

taofist Being part of any Internet "community" can be pretty toxic at times.

[@Carltoncurtis1]

Agreed. Better to be productive with your time rather than listen to people complaining about people complaining about people complaining ad infinitum. The _idea's_ have been discussed to death and, as you we can see, the community has metastasized into producing and consuming _Skeptic Drama_. Now, 20 other Skeptic Channels are gonna make videos on a minor moral disagreement between two very loosely related individuals. If that ain't vapid, idk what is.

[@poopnach]

I'm skeptical that the "skeptic community" is a community.

[@goawayleavemealone2880]

@poopnach I'm skeptical that the "skeptic community" is skeptical.

[@dodgechance4564]

you don't have to say that you're part of a community to be put into it by the internet. By simply telling the truth and giving your opinion you can be put into a certain community by the internet even if you yourself do not say you are. Even those in the video do not all say they're part of a community they're simply labelled as such by the internet because of the types of videos they make and the people they talk to

[@JaguarBST]

I am confused by the high number of dislike on this video. This video aged quite well.

[@seanbalogun1108]

Because of anti-SJW dipshits

[@hendrx]

the anti sjw crowd is triggered

[@alexanderwalker3906]

This video aged like fine wine. The comments section, however....... oh boy.

[@yoavsnake]

+

[@Skylancer727]

Agreed. Shame for the 20K people who down voted it because they couldn't see how right he was.

[@Tal__]

@@Skylancer727 I think a lot of them were coming from Sargon after he lied and attacked Thunderf00t for supposedly splicing audio of him laughing about the shooting.

[@indodaemdaka]

Sargon is done now

[@bindukopparapu2795]

@@indodaemdaka What happened to Sargon? Is he declining?

[@MentalParadox]

Video that says what needs to be said: 19,900 dislikes. Faith in humanity decreased.

[@whyrobotslie8076]

Man and in hindsight he was spot on. In ten years this vid will have more likes than dislikes.

[@hewitttribe5536]

@@whyrobotslie8076 I know, right?

[@pumpkinot9900]

@Peter B what are you trying to say?

[@deenman23]

@@whyrobotslie8076 na it will get more dislikes because the neo natzi movement is growing

[@Mershaullk]

I'd like to see everyone defending the people talked about in this video by crying "context" and "Sargon said this, too, though" defend instead the incredibly thoughtless and crass comments such as "Can I praise the shooter". None of you will, in good conscience, try because you all know there is no defense for such a lack of empathy. To so nonchalantly express happiness towards the death of another because you disagreed with them is to dismiss the pain felt by their friends and loved ones. I disagreed with many of her views as well, but I am not happy for her death, and nobody in their right mind should be.

[@Mershaullk]

You're all making gods of these people and getting angry when your idols are spoken of in ill ways. You're becoming what you claim to decry.

[@thecavalrygeneral3453]

Context is everything. The "Can I praise the shooter" line that Tf00t played over and over again was Louis assuming the character of an Alt-Right journalist when they were talking about what the different reactions in the media and alternative media might be. No one in that stream was happy about Ivy dying, Kraut and Sargon specifically stated that multiple times. Please do some actual research before making emotionally driven broadbrush pronouncements like this... thanks.

[@thomascocks9136]

or how sargon said to an english mp and sexual assault survivor "i wouldn't even rape you". Or how, despite claiming to oppose collectivism, he has said that all feminists are cancerous. I mean i could go on but you get the idea.

[@EyeLean5280]

Honestly, I didn't think Sargon himself came off that badly in this particular version of things. He's still a gaping anus, though.

[@bimbowithadegree420]

@@thomascocks9136 or how he rallies for free speech but makes petitions to shut down university courses he disagrees with

[@kelbiekelbie909]

You obviously didn't watch the part of the stream where Sargon states that "We should not use the to show the falsity of feminism as that would be unfair. This was obviously the actions of a disturbed individual" (quoted from memory).

[@jhonlewis5758]

Kevin Kelbie Sargon also talked about his opinion on gun rights and pretty much said the same thing thunderfoot did. I remember it was in a responses for libertarians video or something like that.

[@hocusPocus4204U]

Right, but Sargon also laughed at an offensive joke!

[@TinfoilHatWearer]

hocus pocus oh my fuckin God.... Someone laughed at an offensive joke... THE WORLD IS GOING TO END

[@desertingdessert938]

Someone needs to adjust their sarcasm meter

[@battlebruvabdrv1836]

I loved the audio doctoring It really brought this pearl-clutching adventure forward

[@gruicix]

NO FUN ALLOWED

[@ooo-ev4cc]

gruicix oh yesss, so much fun laughing at dead people. Hahahahaha, laughing at tragedies is just fucking awesome. What fucken idiots

[@ooo-ev4cc]

Deathshead1923 they laughed at the victim too. Clean your fucking years

[@ooo-ev4cc]

awteserhrst5h4r asdvavsrfaSfdds ** clean your ears.

[@Deathshead1923]

Pretty much the first thing Sargon said in the stream was "we shouldn't be enjoying this". The only one using this tragedy for his own gain is ol' Thunderfoot here. It's Mr. Mason who decided to take edgy black humor seriously.

[@dimthecat9418]

Why are there so many dislikes but positive comments?

[@scylecs]

no arguments

[@hendrx]

because it aged well, the skeptic community used to be a mob

[@MrSocko-bh1jb]

I always considered myself to be a sceptic, and an atheist, but I never quite understood why I need a community for that!

[@paintbrush3554]

Same.

[@Fred-gu6pk]

You're all different. I am not

[@BromanderInChief]

We lose Thunderf00t and Bill Nye, but gain Laci Green and Milo Stewart? "This is the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals. Maybe ever"

[@LUROBOX]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOOOOL

[@Slick_Tails]

BromanderInChief Okay, that one got a genuine laugh out of me. XD

[@Mikey-gs1dx]

should make you question your "side"

[@S3NTRY]

BromanderInChief brilliant 😂

[@FrancoTiradorB420]

Fucking Culture Draft is worst than the Race Draft :(

[@heroinsucks645]

TF I don't understand why you allowed yourself to be grouped in with "the skeptic community" in the first place. Why not identify yourself as an individual and not allow yourself to be grouped with people of a diverse group of opinions?

[@timmya4000]

totally, he said he's wise to it, and has lived long enough to know this always happens

[@TheRealADHDavid]

Nearly 4 years later and this just continues to be right.

[@somethingsomething9008]

The modern anti siw community is so shit now lol

[@Julius064]

Indeed friend, 100% right

[@alexanderson7568]

I've bee with Thunderf00t since the employer writing campaign and saw him slowly leave the community as it became more and more toxic. I'm not necessarily happy that he left the "skeptic community" but he did what's ethical and morally straight which is really what he's been "fighting" for.

[@pauldroop]

Yes making a video out of manufactured evidence to fit your preferred theory is indeed a resignation from scepticism.

[@jackvernian7779]

and science, too.

[@michaelmartinek7408]

Just curious after 5 years are you still a sargon fan? Or have you finally grown up?

[@mechamahou8467]

@@michaelmartinek7408 I'd imagine that, like Sargon, they are the exact same people.

[@michaelmartinek7408]

Mecha yeah, that's probably a safe bet. Although I would still like an answer from this guy to see if he is still as cringy 5 years later.

[@NeverDeadChaos]

The most striking thing about this video is that Thunderf00t is primarily a science based channel... to see this kind of blatant manipulation of another persons views, edited together to say something he didn't really damages his credability for his other videos. i know it's the fallacy fallacy, but you can't trust a scientist who you've caught manipulating data.

[@Rozmic]

Then why no Bill Nye video?

[@jackvernian7779]

very good point

[@ExodusCore]

Thunderf00t never made a video about what Bill Nye did. Seeing as that was in his own backyard so to speak, it was pretty telling that he never addressed the issue in a video.

[@BareknuckleBill]

ExodusCore He never made a video about it because there isn't much to criticise from a scientific point of view. Most of the "criticism" of self proclaimed "sceptics" is based on a confusion of the psychological term "gender" with the biological term "sex" and basically an involuntary exposure of scientific ignorance.

[@SirWeirdGuy]

I was a massive pro-gamergate anti-sjw and honestly by this point the community's utter stupidity has pushed me to kind of become a feminist sjw

[@WithDiameter]

How embarrassing, don’t admit that 🥴

[@RavenFly1232]

This takes balls. To step back, and see what's going on, and then re-evaluate your own position on things. Communities have a lifespan, and to have integrity to say no when the communities start to become the very thing they sought to fight. It's like the saying: You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself to become the villain.

[@blackscienceman5031]

so they switched thunderfoot for lacie?

[@brianrhiel5292]

Sceptics got the better end of that deal. Odd seeing TF joining Anita's side though.

[@AholeAtheist]

The black and white fallacy is strong with you lot.

[@wotmot223]

Factions will always have strong adherents, and those who belong to them out of necessity. But many of the comments here are bashing him for his methods, and his deception, as well as for the " I stopped watching half way through" comment he made. Don't think that all, or even most of the criticism is aimed at him out of ideological fervor, it isn't.

[@blackscienceman5031]

a liar? well shit 700k subs ... must be a good one.

[@requiemforamerica8432]

+Pepe Kek he is good with science videos, and anti-theist videos but when it came to politics he always had shown himself to be a marxist/big government lover - his religion, alas was statism. He's been sore about brexit and trying to demonize sargon now for having been for it.

[@xiii0722]

Ok I didn't know what to think, but please everyone watch Sargon of Akkad's video. This whole video is just clips edited together to make someone look bad.

[@xiii0722]

lol that name =D

[@EyeLean5280]

I have deeply mixed feelings about Thunderf00t. He can be great, especially when he's calling out BS science, but he can also be pretty dishonest in his presentation of his opponents. However, in this case, I'm inclined to agree with him. And I'm glad to see he's encouraging people to listen to the entire hangout.

[@doriphor]

Rewatch the video, nowhere does it say it's specifically aimed at Sargon. The way I interpret it, it's directly aimed at the community as a whole, only using Sargon's quips about the community because they contrast the people in the hangout so well, not because Sargon necessarily stood out, besides associating with his co-guests.

[@jaysonedson]

New drinking game, watch this video and drink every time he says "before the body was even cold". Also you could play it by drinking every time he mentions the Westboro Baptist Church.

[@bonbonnom30]

He's not, alcoholics don't stop, this video does. See, Jason knows how to set limits.

[@c10lx2_6]

no it would kill people

[@bonbonnom30]

eh, i got an iron liver.

[@LukeTheArtist96]

Are Laci Green and Thunderfoot switching places?

[@spankeyfish]

LucasLeArtist ooooh, I hadn't realised that. Good spot.

[@vctorarmada5279]

LucasLeArtist shut the fuck up. He is right here. I do not even agree with him in many issues.

[@goldengail3418]

LucasLeArtist damn it. I've met one your kind before... the encounter did not end well...

[@coldwar45]

No. thunderf00t is still anti-SJW (Trumpalos are right wing SJWs in many ways) and Laci is still a Feminist. She just said she was willing to talk to the other side

[@snapdragon420]

Thunderfoot=Steve Shives 2.0

[@nescio03]

Hi Thunderf00t. I found this channel just the other day, tnx to movie night, and started exploring. Kudos to you for ditching a group of individuals with questionable morale, low on ethics and obviously no respect for human life or victims outside of their navel-staring tunnel visioned little circle. Their low esteem could only reflect on you. Love your content. Subbed.

[@Rotheric]

Thank you, Thunderfoot. That is all. Now back to watching cognitive dissonance in action in this comments section.

[@PraktikoolSinik]

They mocked him, not her. I have no problem with that.

[@ericselectrons]

8:02 - "Can I praise the shooter real quick." That's not mocking him; that's a joke praising him.

[@LiiRAE.]

Eric Electron looking really hard for that weren't you lol

[@kevinsuzan684]

They mocked the fact that he shot her. Most of the jokes were centerd atound a person murdering another person.

[@LiiRAE.]

yeaaaah... except that's completely different. Your example is laughing directly at the victim, while these shitposters are laughing at the perpetrator. Try again! If you feel the shooter deserves respect then you are a deranged person.

[@fordarkseid736]

Dr. Fun Police is here. He edited/altered the live stream to build a strawman, very dishonest.

[@zenlyfly-fo9de]

did you watch the stream

[@eddewes8409]

ForDarkseid # I watched the stream and sargons response and cant see why thunderf00t is triggered this is not the straw that broke the camels back this is about something else

[@LennonnJohn]

I watched the entire thing and this was some of the worst cherry picking I have ever seen.

[@Neslakim1]

Did you?

[@espalorp3286]

Is it touchy? Was it a sensitive subject? Perhaps. Were Sargon ect trying to make fun of or belittle the victim? No. But then again if this is the hill Thundy wants to die on, fine by me.

[@Di66en6ion]

Dumped the skeptic "community" in the late 2000s. I got what I think I needed from the debates in the heyday. It very much seemed like there was lots of rehashing in the early 2010s and people were getting bored so stupidity creeped in.

[@mrtalos]

3 years ago, I wasn't sure about what Thunderf00t was saying. Now, Holy none existent God, he was right.

[@fiscrest123]

"I'm fucking better than you! Much better! YOU ARE GARBAGE!" - Dr. Phil "Thunderf00t" Mason, May 20th, 2017

[@Mildly_Dead]

Kek

[@dieseltech386]

Lord Kek shadilay my Lord

[@VelvetySharkToast]

kek indeed, sir.

[@Mildly_Dead]

***** KEK.

[@juhopitkaranta6883]

In all fairnes, Kraut came later out and admitted this being a mistake

[@juhopitkaranta6883]

White Supremacist Hate Symbol Yes, and althoug I agree on the rest of the video I think Tf00t is wrong on that one. A sincear apology should (more or less) do it if the person really admits doing something wrong. And to clarify, I'm not talking about giving excuses, I'm talking about tossing your hands in the air and saying "I did somethin wrong".

[@nzjustin8420]

in retrospect looking at the state of Sargon today, Thunderf00t definitely made the right call

[@JessyDoyle]

why?

[@cuckoophendula8211]

I'm looking at this video as a historical piece. So when referring to that sargon meme where he's like the grim reaper killing everything he touches, is this one of the defining signs that he's killing the skeptic community?

[@alabaster5302]

@@cuckoophendula8211 Don't think so. It's when Sargon took on Mr Metokur (Internet Aristocrat) by accusing him of being a pedophile.

[@MostachioETwyler]

Thunderfoot is a Coal Mine Canary when it comes to internet communities, he has an amazing ability to jump and disavow before things collapse into an narcissistic shit fight.

[@bimbowithadegree420]

Absolutely

[@sym9266]

So I'm halfway through the video, would someone be so kind as to point out the 'misrepresentation'?

[@doritojohnson3211]

so you were part of the community when they agree with you, but when they dont....

[@rhyzvanic3660]

...Isn't that how communities work? I don't see how that's anything to point out.

[@yurisuika]

I just think Thunderf00t doesn't want to be in the same club as Laci Green.

[@bjarke7886]

Laci Green more redpilled then thunderfoot, what a time to be alive,

[@starmanda88]

Good for you mate. I've grown disgusted with this entire thing for quite some time. Nice to here some reason.

[@dudewatches6125]

Damn Thunder...mad respect. Your integrity is so massive, I think it's crushing. I have been following you for about a decade, give or take, back when I was a hardcore Christian. Though I sometimes think you are a bit too aggressive, snarky, or proud for my tastes, you are fucking consistent. Really, your integrity was already a factor I admired in you, but after this... seriously, defiance of tribalism, defiance of the community, thats hardcore, that is something human beings are not good at doing. Not once or twice, much less consistently. I hope you read this comment, I hope you see it and gain some kind idea of the track I have walked in this life I have, and how you have certainly been one of the surveyors that helped me map that road. I am still a spiritual person, but I owe a lot of my current belief to people like you. Strength brother, keep seeking truth, and keep holding the higher standard.

[@AdrianCelsiusTepes]

I always found kind of arrogant to call it the "skeptic" community, like skepticism is somehow exclusive to a certain community.

[@incinerati]

thunderfoot, why did you make cuts in their video?! you were intentionally bending their words in this clip. i love your work, but by doing things like that, you're losing all credibility. and i can bet that other subscribers think that as well. :/

[@xoso599]

The misleading cuts of the audio/video are inexcusable. I expected better.

[@incinerati]

yeah, such a shame. :( it's a level of dishonesty one would expect from anita sarkeesian.

[@erikshure360]

Agreed.

[@lineber2]

marquis1169 He linked to the original video and said to see for yourselves. His cuts were not dishonest, this is Sargon's argument that it is out of context because Sargon lacks a self-critical view: Watch the original video and listen closely to almost everything Vee says. Also in subsequent videos, Vee agrees with the narrative that Thunderf00t is presenting. Sargon must have missed that. I unsubscribed to Sargon because of this and did so to Vee a long time ago. Vee is especially the culprit. Listen to Vee's other streams on the matter regarding criticism from SkepTor. The disappointing voice is the German guy, Krause (sic). I've recently started following him because I think he has the right morals, that I agree with. He just did a video a few days ago about the poor behavior of SJWs, ironically he did something as bad as what he criticized. I watched the original video and cringed at Vee's giddy, joyful, and exuberant take on this. Sargon is laughing at every comment. While they kept pulling back in the original video, they'd always go back to the questioned narrative. THIS IS NOT WHO I WANT TO REPRESENT MY VIEWS. I am purging my KZbin subscriptions, based on those that are defending Sargon on this matter. Except for the Krause guy, I will research what he says about this incident before doing that. Vee mentioned that he is torn-up about his conduct.

[@lineber2]

tazzydnc Ah, Sargon was giggling at everything Vee said. My judgement comes from content that was originally posted. Also this argument has been going on before Thunderf00t got involve. I pointed out what Vee has said since this stream, he has conceded many of the facts. You are saying that because Sargon didn't say the stupid insensitive stuff, he is not wrong. Okay that is your view, obviously I have a different standard. Sargon also mismanaged the response. Never surpass the master? Really, he doubled down. Also I don't conflate Vee and Sargon. Vee was dropped a long time ago. I've watched everything Sargon has put out since he was introduced to me via Thunderf00t. Also, don't think Thunderf00t handled this right either. But he is not wrong about the part that I dislike.

[@azazel166]

Aged like fine wine.

[@RuleAxeMan]

Why tho I'm new fan of thunderf00t like a year ago i started watching his videos and I'm now trying to follow up on old videos but don't seem to understand many of them and context behind them

[@azazel166]

@@RuleAxeMan He started off tackling Creationists and calling out their nonsensical claims, then he moved on to debunking pseudoscience(Solar Roadways et cetera). When Gamergate happened, he began going after would-be feminists like Anita Sarkeesian, then the whole "Skeptic Community" came which was composed of Sargon of Akkad and other popular Anti-SJW channel, they too went after Anita Sarkeesian and her ilk. However, soon after, they went too far to the fringe, and began to brand anything they didn't like as "SJW", and this is where we are right now.

[@RuleAxeMan]

@@azazel166 Ah i get it now thanks

[@tinytim8173]

this video and videos like this are why I like your channel so much. it was probably obvious to you that this would be a very controversial video but you still made it.

[@clearspira]

You keep shitting on bad science and i'll keep on watching you, Thunderfoot.

[@seybertooth9282]

+Shades Asserted you with no evidence.

[@silviascolaro6937]

Shades stop repeating this shit in every science comment

[@Dreadnaught1Aw]

His debunking and busting of bad science are my favorite videos.

[@DriveCarToBar]

Proof?

[@RedSkyHorizon]

neutronium freaking highways

[@sirslam2414]

Yeah and like 30 seconds in Sargon says, and I loosely quote, "I dont think we should be enjoying this. Somebody died." Phil, what the fuck man?

[@Cyphosis]

mocking a killer is not mocking the victim you mongoloid

[@Dream0Asylum]

[mocking a killer is not mocking the victim you mongoloid] I don't believe I said it was. Be that as it may, some of these jokes sound an awful lot like mocking a killing - not just a killer. Like, and to paraphrase, [At least he didn't take any shit.] See, you can joke about OJ *lying* about killing his ex-wife. However, it's a different proposition to joke about the killing itself. Regardless, I was just pointing out what a ridiculous defense "but he said it was wrong" is - and it's a point that still stands.

[@Rick_Eastland]

He wasn't quoting you. He was explaining that there is a difference between making fun of the situation/the killer, and making fun of the victim. If you follow TF and are a fan of finding out truth in a situation, then watch the others videos explaining what happened. If anything admit to the truth that TF edited the live stream to take the jokes out of context. If you can't do that, then just quit now mate.

[@TheBrothergreen]

I'm a skeptic. I don't consider myself to be a member of the "skeptical community." Not really sure what that even means. *{shrug}*

[@alabaster5302]

Basically SargonofAkkad/Kraut and thier ass-kissers, get together on Discord and talk about gayops . Oversimplifying it, yes, but that's the TL;DR of the sceptic community™

[@TheBrothergreen]

@@alabaster5302 Hmm... Discord. Guess I'm safe then.

[@realdomdom]

I think the biggest problem is, they cater to kids.

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

realdomdom mostly teenage edgelords

[@noelplum99]

BOOM!!!! All I would say is that you never had any need to see yourself as part of some "community" to begin with. For a decade, for good or ill, you have done your own thing and spoken your mind. I cannot say I have always agreed with you but I have always respected that for you issues are not bundled like party politics. You genuinely are prepared to oppose any side and anyone regardless of size and reach. Fuck the whole "community" bullshit. Communities equal getting tied in to packages of views. Just keep being yourself and saying what you think and I will always respect that, even when we don't see eye to eye.

[@TehPwnXor]

I agree with you Noel.

[@revlarmilion9574]

I agree with the whole criticism of the concept of community, but TF's reasons for making this video are way too thinly-veiled. Once upon a time, TF was a proponent of "Atheism doesn't have requirements", now suddenly being a skeptic requires the kind of "moral fiber" Rebecca Watson was demanding all those years ago. I'm a big fan, Noel. You really should just roll up your sleeves, put on some gloves, and get some context on this. Go watch the streams when you have time or something. Make sure you're not backing TF simply because he was here first. It was my first instinct, too.

[@if91100]

Noel Plum you put it perfectly tbh.

[@noelplum99]

I am not "backing" him insofar as he originally came out with the "house divided" crap some tine ago which totally plays ibto the groupthink mentality and tribalism that poisons KZbin nowadays. Where I do side with him is that I too don't see an ethical side and an unethical side _in terms of behaviour_, what I see are people viewing actions in incredibly skewed and biased ways. Black humour is one thing. The fire service is reknowned with dealing with things in that way, making light it tragedy with jokes that would otherwise appear in terrible taste..... BUT, this isn't something one does in a public space. This hangout wasn't in someone's front room just between those involved but broadcast to all and sundry. For Thunderf00t to place so much weight on this one event is maybe OTT but it is indicative of all this childish "kek" nonsense generally. Some of us are in our mid forties and almost mature adults ;-) ........ so this is hard to see as the status quo.

[@JimRiven]

Almost mature? Debatable :)

[@PressA2Die]

Swaping Laci for Thunderf00t lol

[@go_rilla262]

Time for Chappell to do a KZbin draft skit

[@deaconmcrib4262]

What made you think this was a good idea?

[@BaconMinion]

Arrogance, maybe an impending mental breakdown.

[@deaconmcrib4262]

Yeah that's a definite possibility.

[@paulwebb2078]

Because he obviously did not like what was happening? Who are you to tell people what they should think? The thought police?

[@lm-jz9bh]

Sean Fronteras but that doesn't make excuse the deceitful way he edited the video. He could have made the same points without doing so and still been critical of the morbid humor. He shots himself in the foot the way he presented this.

[@DrBeefmaster]

No one's telling people what to think...that's why he ASKED what thunderfoot was thinking... Did you even read the comment or are you just typing with your fan-boner?

[@hewitttribe5536]

Wow, this aged great! Still an amazing channel where the only toxicity is what you extract from various experiments.

[@pitsahat2]

I have watched the stream and the jokes were on the expense of the murderer, there also was no agenda just dark humour about the sjw comunity. They did not call the families of the victims didn't even address them on the internet, just had a chat (with jokes you didn't like) between themselves, so how is this even close to being similar to the westboro baptists church?

[@BK-ku1zt]

Quiet yourself child, thundercuck knows best. Anyone holding an opposing opinion is automatically wrong, because that's apparently what he thinks scepticism is about.

[@sircastic959]

This. Amen, Praise KeK? :D

[@PresleyPerswain]

In addition to all the other people calling you out on the dishonesty in this video, you also completely ignore that Kraut and Tea apologised for his actions in that stream the next day.

[@PresleyPerswain]

Oh, wait, just caught the last few seconds where you say you won't accept any apologises. So I guess you did address that - in exactly the wrong way.

[@he1ar1]

Why did kraut feel the need to apologise if he did nothing wrong?

[@ABaumstumpf]

he1ar1 - watch the stream and watch Krauts next video to see what was really going on.

[@babute21]

can someone explain what this drama is about? idont get it

[@gnomadD_]

Discovered your channel via your Elon Musk skepticism (good work btw) and only realised a few days ago that you were a key player in the whole gamergate thing... Rather than make a snap judgement I searched to see what you'd actually said and found this video. I applaud you for standing on principle and distancing yourself from the anti-SJWs when they proved how toxic they really were. I guess we will have to cancel you some other time eh? 🤣

[@MrSideliner]

So... your main shred of basis for this grandstand is a clip showing messed up gallows humour from 1 stream?

[@eddiebruv]

ProfessorRomendev Nobody laughed at a dead person.

[@matthallowes1975]

If you think that stream was 'gallows humour' then you clearly don't understand what gallows humour means

[@TheNSJaws]

ProfessorRomendev Except they laughed at the shooter, and you're intentionally being disingenuous.

[@robertsmith7667]

Matthew Hallowes if you don't understand how irony can be funny, then you don't understand humour.

[@matthallowes1975]

My point wasn't about humour in general, it was about 'gallows humour'. Gallows humour is joking about your own misfortune, not gleefully making light of someone else's misfortune.

[@Axodus]

... Guess I have to unsubscribe now... I actually LIKED this channel but now I can't trust you.. Goodbye old friend.

[@somethingsomething9008]

i dont 100 percent with everything thing thunderfoot says but this aged well

[@xxxWolFangxxx]

The dislikes on this are making it really hard not to agree with you. The skeptic community has completely gone to shit. In due time, people will look back and realize that you were right.

[@jennan6948]

tonight i learned that dark humor from a Romanian doctor who deals with patients who live in sewers on a regular basis triggers thunderf00t in his first world home

[@garyhart6421]

You quit a few years ago.

[@darthkahn45]

OOOHHH.gif

[@roblongid3143]

why did you edit that stream that way? how did you not think this was not wrong?

[@Draktand01]

I have noticed this phenomenon time and time again, where people get caught up in a dogma to the point that they don’t even realize it. Usually it’s more benign, like fininding yourself agreeing with opinions of a larger group (about taxation, whether or not your country should continue being a constitutional monarchy or becoming a republic, or other debates where there is no objecitvly right awnser). This phenomenon isn’t bad per say, as humans change their opinions all the time either way, but one should always carry a couple of core values when engaging in any political group, and if there is no way of steering said political group out of the shithole they have dug themselvs, one should never be afraid of changing alligence, especially if the group acts against your core values. There is no issue with trying to reform a group from the inside mind you, but you cannot let the group reform you first. The ”culture war” has done nothing but drag all of those that participate for long into the dirt. It has done nothing but radicalize and polarize groups that would be firm allies under normal conditions. Seriously, try and convince me that the basic concepts of social justice and scepticism/pro-atheism aren’t born from same basic concern for freedom and equality? Hadn’t they been militarized beyond any recognition due to minor diffrences, they probably would be standing hand in hand. So, while I generally don’t enjoy your type of content (it’s just not my cup of tea I guess), my respect for you had definately grown after watching this video.

[@Tanglecrown]

Dissapointed in you Thunderfoot

[@disneyh8er]

YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE, IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD DESTROY THE SITH NOT JOIN THEM.

[@fartloudYT]

its treason then..

[@simonwinn8757]

He brought balance to the force, culled the Jedi until they were equal to the Sith.

[@screamityeah]

DisneyH8ER if youbdont agree with me then you are part of the "other team"

[@JasonWilliams89]

Thunderfoot was never the chosen one. Trump maybe, but not Thunderfoot.

[@Hegemon1984]

From my point of view the anti-feminists are evil!

[@RichardWatt]

Even when Thunderf00t originally published this video, the second he mentions Kevin Logan, my first thought was "wait, that guy's still on KZbin?"

[@dragonuser5]

Hey Thundefoot, been watching your stuff for a while and while I don't necessarily always agree with your side of some issues or how you may've gone about criticizing them I generally enjoyed your videos as well as your perspectives on these matters, particularly as it more and more began to differ from you generally see within this community. I think it'd be great if you continued to make videos on the social/cultural subjects in the future but I also understand from your perspective of how you can view this. I still enjoy your practical testing and science stuff though and can't wait for the next one.

[@ncunico]

Thunderfoot went full Shives..... Never go full shives..

[@takotratheratking7411]

When you go full shives there is no coming back.

[@jojojorisjhjosef]

hah I get it.

[@PrincepsComitatus]

Thunderf00t got triggered ... and started lying by omission and misrepresentation. Its the current year I guess.

[@JakeSnake07]

Well, we traded Thunderf00t for Laci Green. I'd say that's a fair trade.

[@Finegold88]

Laci Green's a shill, only motivated by money. Shes still funded by MTV.

[@ToveriJuri]

_"Laci Green is still a feminist and sjw; she's ignored our criticism for a crazy long time"_ Yeah no shit. I'f you've been a Christians who grew out of it you know that accepting new ideas and changing your views isn't something that happens overnight especially if you are convinced that you are right. It's a slow process where your thinking gradually changes. Shoving her olive branch up her ass just because she's been bad is silly. You should at least see where this goes. It's beneficial for everyone if the party that refused to talk is at least trying to open up a dialog, because it's not common.

[@Ammonium-ow6pd]

Can someone please explain to me what's happening?

[@9UWmember]

The funny thing is, I've always seen TF to be very damn consistent in his views yet he gets slagged for being a hypocrite. Oh well, can't please everyone. Defying a group that's popular within ones audience for the sake of principle shows more backbone than hypocrisy in my eyes.

[@cynderfan2233]

And now go and watch Sargon's response video and watch as this entire narrative disintegrates.

[@michaelstone9065]

made fun of murderer, not murdered, No complaints for truck of peace....

[@Forgenshoot]

That isn't exactly what he did, and even if he literally did, so what? Dark humor is a thing, you know? Since when were we the people that got offended at certain categories of jokes?

[@Andrius971]

+Neko Suki He was making fun of the MURDERER, welcome to gallows humor. The joke is not what they say is funny, but how horrible it is to say it in the first place. That is the JOKE.

[@Happymasks]

@Neko Suki Well, actually it does. See The people on the stream were making fun of the murderer, not the woman who was killed or the fact that she was killed. Amazing how that changes things doesn't it

[@WanderingBrain]

Thunderfoots misrepresentation of Sargon is just fucked up - how could thunderfoot think that altering footage is a good idea? Credibility completely and utterly lost.

[@ianthrockmorton9167]

Selectively edit much??

[@boobio1]

Why is he doing that now?

[@unpronouncable2442]

Unless we have a mind reader we will not know why. All we know that the segments shown are non representative of the conversation that took place.

[@roryos]

I think it's because he's upset at the fact that many skeptic opinions are changed direction from his.

[@AntonSlavik]

The clips from the hangout with Vee etc? We have all the context we need. They were making light of a tragic death.

[@kayjayfreemind2278]

+コンピューティング A E S T H E T I C: Yeah. I think Trump and Brexit fried his brain and this was his pathetic attempt of taking out his frustration on those he deems responsible or "guilty" for "his loss". Even if that means throwing logic and truth out of the window. Sad. Just sad...

[@lokynokey4822]

WOW! I just watched the stream and I think you underrepresented how bad it was.

[@sebastianberg7142]

used to love sargon before he got big. he was sharp, on point, and quick to admit his mistakes. theese days he just pump out videos full of mistakes. i don't feel i can watch his videos and trust what he is saying anymore. take the entire video, where he defends Trump giving medical advice during a pandemic. its ripe for one of his own This Week in Stupid videos, and honestly sad, for a former fan to watch. Good job putting your thunderfoot down, phil! even if i thought back then, that it was a bit soon. i was wrong.

[@Skylancer727]

It's just what notoriety does to people. It makes people feel invincible and immune to the criticism they themselves make. Some people handle it better than others but nobody is immune.

[@semyondelaney]

Not a joke for my taste but you're really blowing this thing out of proportion imo.

[@VermilionMage]

You deliberately spliced together parts of the stream to misrepresent the context. You're a real piece of work.

[@Sorinhach]

VermilionMage the point when he laughs after a joke is edited. also, Sargon said "this probably has nothing to do with feminism", but seems like tf did not see it. I suggest you watch the whole Livestream unedited.

[@fuzzylogik1429]

Misrepresentation by omission, like when that black women told rioters to take it to the suburbs... but that didn't make the cut.

[@Sorinhach]

I agree it was a bad joke and I agree this is not just about Sargon. But I dont think that livestream was worth all that drama. I support Thunderf00t on the cancer joke part, but he was intentionally dishonest in some parts of his video.

[@GuardianFaction]

Keep fighting the good fight Thunder. You have always been a voice of reason even when it could negatively affects your channel. It's why i love you.

[@footsoldier5178]

How many times do you have to say "Before the body is even cold"?

[@ToddHowardWithAGun]

Thunderf00t, stop lying. The clips you showed were deceptively edited. Sargon says at the beginning of the stream that they shouldn't make jokes about this. Somehow, that inconvenient fact didn't make it into your slanderous video. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[@dubstepXpower]

youre weissu a sheet I'm confused, they were making jokes though, I mean the whole thing is pointless and stupid, I couldn't care less what people joke about. A skeptic isn't really part of anything isn't that the point, you don't subscribe to identity politics anyway.

[@thatnorwegianguy1986]

Then that makes Sargon look even worse because he kept making jokes

[@thatnorwegianguy1986]

Learn to form a proper sentence before calling anyone thick.

[@erikshure360]

*kept making jokes directed toward a murderer

[@john_hunter_]

youre weissu a sheet so they he said they shouldn't make jokes but they made jokes anyway?

[@somerando8615]

If the regular "Skeptic" community isn't cutting it for you ... you could always form Skepticism+ which could be Skepticism Plus Moral Policing. But seriously though, If the primary objection here is that the jokes were too offensive and in too poor taste. Then people's moral outrage should directly correspond to meme spiciness. I've been on twitter and seen some other videos talking about Russian Deadpool and they were far spicier than anything on Vee's stream. Have you seen Harmful Opinions's twitter? It is muey calliente, so spicy. Now if we look at the outrage over the Jokepocalypse 2017, all of the outrage seems to be directed at people with high subscriber or view counts. I'd be willing to bet that if Sargon wasn't in that stream then nobody would care. It'd just be a bunch of under 100k subs dudes being edgy in a hangout. Thunderfoot wouldn't be making this video, twitter wouldn't be on their soap box, and the Social Justice Sphere wouldn't be running at peak outrage. And I know this would be the case because there are a ton of people streaming, and joking, on youtube about how there is yet another male feminist who has hurt women... and team outrage has not noticed or cared. If that's true then that would mean the offensiveness of the jokes told by Vee, Uzalu, Kraut, and Louie were not the deciding factor in how morally offended people are. The deciding factor in weather or not people got pissed was based on weather or not someone with a ton of views/subs like Sargon was in the room (which is ironic considering he didn't say much). It's not about edgy jokes, this is about point scoring.

[@YouWhatMate28]

Some Rando Alt Skeptics lol

[@joehalstead3187]

AAAAAA FUCKING MENNNNNNNNNNNN And I just think that Thunderf00t thinks that his "departure," which he had already gradually accomplished over the past year anyway, is going to somehow harm the community. This isn't FreeThoughtBlogs 2.0, Thunderf00t. Sargon and Friends haven't relied on you in any significant way for several months. What's strange is that I don't see that Thunderf00t really gives a rat's ass about social politics any more, and given his real talents, that's a good thing. Stick to busting crowd fund scams. But it's strange because, at the same time, just as Laci Green and Milo Stewart are trying to be all "hug life" with their opponents, suddenly Thunderf00t is going well out of his way to bust non-traditional targets. I'm not saying he's playing catchup with Laci Green, in fact, TF started overhauling his social justice related stuff before she did. What I'm saying is, Thunderf00t has had YEARS AND YEARS to pick out and destroy plenty of bad apples in the non-feminist- skeptic/anti-SJW community, and is only just now doing it. So, as I said earlier today: VIRTUE!!!!! VIRTUE????? WHERE ARE YOU, VIRTUE?????? Sad, considering that Thunderf00t isn't necessarily stagnating and doesn't need this arbitrary refresher. Go look at his Patreon. The science videos have clearly hit a home run- again, a great thing that he should just stick to. Nobody gave a shit BEFORE this video that Thunderf00t was disillusioned with the skeptics, nobody asked him in advance about it, nobody was talking about it, nobody was saying that his lack of disavows shows that he loves insensitive jokes. And yet....he just had to make sure everyone knew about it, right? Consider also, he stated plainly that there is no way his mind will ever be changed. So he didn't make this video in hopes that the folks in that hangout would say, "oh damn, maybe we were overboard there," and then change. Thunderf00t says that it doesn't matter, even if they genuinely change, he's OUT. So, let's recap: a. nobody was accusing Thunderf00t of a goddamned thing, so no need to disavow b. Thunderf00t hasn't been visible as a skeptic since forever, if we only consider recent content c. Thunderf00t didn't do this video to change the skeptics' minds and hearts so they'd change d. Thunderf00t didn't have the Laci Green problem, the sudden stagnation in channel stats, so no need for a gimmick What's left? VIRTUE!?!?!?! VIRTUE!!!!!!

[@at5203]

Some Rando I follow everyone un that stream and that just makes it worse, actually. What they did was fucked up. And the outrage isn't because Sargon has more subscribers, it's because of what they did. Sargon having more subscribers just facilitates more people watching the stream. I don't get your point, of course people that have more followers will have more people pissed when they do something wrong, because they have more followers.

[@somerando8615]

Dude if having more subscribers "just makes it worse" then that kind of proves my point doesn't it? if "the outrage isn't because Sargon has more subscribers" and "it's because of what they did" were true then you'd see more response videos, outraged tweets, and moral condemnation against someone like Harmful Opinions who is dropping the spiciest memes on the internet rather than Sargon who was just in a hangout while jokes were happening. You know ... basing your level of outrage at someone "because of what they did" and not "because Sargon has more subscribers".

[@EvilGunRinger]

Its amazing how mutch flak one can get from going against the stream. :P

[@holiday197]

Two years later and I would say the Skeptic Community is almost dead. Many people who were within this community have dispersed and parted ways and have adopted a more individualistic approach to their KZbin videos and this is what it should have been from the beginning. When people with similar beliefs congregate online for a long period, their minds can be diluted and skewed away from their own unique sense of morality. The point of the platform was to share your viewpoints with the world, not to use it to join online social clubs and have your sense of individuality be lost and to cave to online peer pressure.

[@aemerox5773]

You could also say that it was also an "echo chamber" which lead to a complete collapse and one of the biggest massive break up's. I will never forget the time I started to question the whole process of being a skeptic. I remember I was getting a ton of heat because I started to question its dogma. How can a skeptic not be a skeptic of their own actions?

[@royriley6282]

>Trump becomes president >Laci Green gets red pilled >Ridley Scott makes the worst movie in the Alien franchise >Thunderf00t becomes a dishonest virtue signaler That feel when you entered a parallel universe and its not the one where Firefly wasn't canceled.

[@boblanus1408]

What the hell? You must be some kind of delusional lunatic! Alien 4 was far worse than Prometheus...

[@Kukadin]

This isn't the timeline I signed on for, 2017 was supposed to deliver us from the dark era.

[@InstantKarma376]

That's not the worst Alien movie in the franchise

[@rileyt3885]

It was a perfectly fine alien movie

[@ahappytomato6408]

Roy Riley I'd agree with all of that apart from the alien movie. Personally I loved it

[@consequence8836]

So, I made an initial supportive response to your video which I have just now deleted. The reason is because I had not listened to the Stream hangout of "skeptics" which is referenced here in Thunderfoot's video. I have now. I mistakenly assumed that TF was accurately portraying Sargon's views, but he isn't. In fact' he is deliberately misrepresenting Sargon's words and views. My problem is that you created a Strawman to knock down by deliberately misrepresenting his words and views and then arguing against that misrepresentation. I have no problem if you and Sargon agree or disagree. I have no problem if you don't consider yourself a part of the skeptic community. I have many people who I have subbed to that disagree on various views. Free thinkers often disagree and that's ok. But the moment you use a Strawman, you sink to the level of TYT. Sorry Thunderfoot, I am out, I never thought I would see the day when you would resort to this nonsense.

[@MrXMysteriousX]

Consequence likewise

[@LewisChappy]

Same. I've been hanging by a thread for a while now but had such huge respect for his past conduct online. It's time...

[@EndingTimes0]

Hes lost any credibility in my eyes. I dont even know if I can really believe what he says in his debunking videos anymore or if hes doing the same shit there. Fuck man, I used to love you thunderfoot. What happened to you.

[@LewisChappy]

Same, but its not 2008 anymore....things change and so do we as people. Maybe we've all Left him behind? I don't know man it fucking sucks I used to truly look up to this man when I was younger....

[@consequence8836]

I am not defending the skeptic community. I dont care about "communities." I care about interesting opinions that are based in fact and reason. What Thunderfoot said in this video isn't based in fact or reason. We know this because he manipulated the video to which he was responding in order to alter the position of the opposing view. That is the definition of a Strawman. Thunderfoot has become what he once hated and he has started using arguments that resemble the ones he used to tear apart with reason and logic. .

[@isiahcurtis8239]

you have my support i hope you're doing well for yourself

[@finbar5421]

I don't really understand the MundaneMatt clip as he wasn't saying that he thought the shooter should have had a gun but that the shooter would have either ended up with an illegal gun or killed in some other way during his episode of phycosis

[@lunchboxinsulinboy]

Thunderf00t, why did you edit this so heavily to push your narrative so heavily? It is extremely disappointing to see you do something like this.

[@BOUNCY700]

Lunch Box Top 10 anime betrayals by thunderfoot

[@canaryimpulse989]

Laci Greene just became open to debate, and Milo Stewart just apologized for previous videos! things are just getting good!

[@zenoblues7787]

Someone Else they're certainly getting interesting

[@canaryimpulse989]

wargarurumon he's laughing at a joke someone else made, not because someone was shot.

[@rationalityfirst]

Someone Else Laci is just growing her audience. She's just pretending.

[@canaryimpulse989]

rationalityfirst i actually disagree. this stuff clearly matters to her. plus she could have "seen which way the tide is turning" much much earlier if she was just out for profit.

[@brandonjohnson2071]

rationalityfirst That's certainly not very 'skeptical'

[@JustinCage56]

I love how the comment section is proving your point

[@ladydontekno]

JustinCage yep. You and I know that if it was a hangout of "SJWs" having a kiki over a recent murder of a "rational", the people in this comment section would be fuming over how mean SJWs are and they're awful and this is why we can't have nice things etc. but because it was Sargon and his friends having the kiki, well now it's "just jokes" and everything's "taken out of context". I might be one of those awful SJW feminists that the people reading this despises, but I can't say I blame TF one bit from wanting to distance himself from this community. Especially after reading these comments. Kids, if you wouldn't tolerate certain behaviors in "SJWs", don't tolerate it in your heroes.

[@jackhazardous4008]

Calling him out for misrepresenting Sargon is proving his point?

[@arisrayden]

when you say that he is misrepresenting sargon you're misrepresenting him

[@jackhazardous4008]

@@arisrayden you're right, he wasn't misrepresenting Sargon, he was just lying about him

[@Smitywerban]

@@jackhazardous4008 Sargo himself took every vidoe down he as quoted from in this...i wonder why?

[@None17555]

seeking medical advice from a doctor is not an example of the authority fallacy >.< somewhat common misconception, but citing actual authorities as authorities is not a fallacy. otherwise good video

[@Jfieldsend94]

I do agree with some of your points, but joking about the guy shooting his girlfriend, which you may find distasteful, is not the same as point scoring, especially when sargon said himself that this had nothing to do with feminism in the same livestream.

[@jamescrawford327]

Thunderf00t can do as he pleases I totally agree but what now, black candles and chamber music ?

[@Frosthawk2815]

I watched that stream in full and they said explicitly that they didn't make those jokes to score points and they not once mocked the victim. If you want to leave and take your channel in a different direction that's perfectly acceptable but being disingenuous to this level is not something I think is warrented

[@hocusPocus4204U]

Right, but if Thunderf00t included those parts, his argument wouldn't be very strong.

[@VincentDangerWater]

He didn't include them... because they don't exist.

[@battlebruvabdrv1836]

I mentally lost it when TF doctored the footage so that the two different parts of the stream seemed like the same sentence.

[@Shadowh8ter]

+Brocialist Part of America Lol you're a moron, making jokes about a murderer, and dark jokes about a murder case isn't equivalent to making jokes of a murder victim.

[@Shadowh8ter]

+Brocialist Party of America Lol nothing says you're more confident in your opinion like making assumptions about me like a raging beta. If you're making a joke of someone you're making it at their expense, nobody is making a joke about her, they're making a joke about the killer. The killer and the killed are not the same person you incoherent mongrel. If you're going to attempt to argue with someone, bring some actual mouth words to back it up, and not your beta male whining and rash assumptions about what kind of person you think I am because I'm not against dark humor at the expense of a murderer.

[@Seadalgo]

Love you for this my friend, have made this journey with you

[@deathsdesciple6405]

I wonder why this has a negative L/D ratio

[@TheAisenz0rz]

Sounds like pretentious, self-righteous bullshit.

[@rubikfan1]

when some one say: you offended me with (insert reason) the only answer is: yes , yes i did. and than just leave or continu what ever you are doing at that moment.

[@user-cu6ii3gv1x]

I'm actually re subscribing after not watching a thunderfoot video for years. I assumed you drank the Kool Aid and admittedly never bothered to actually watch your vids afterwards