Why I Quit Hanon - And You Should Too

[@sacrilegiousboi978]

"You just need to practice more" is what I heard from various piano teachers for years when my piano skills suddenly hit a developmental ceiling. I thought I had reached my limit and/or was just lazy. I got depressed and nearly gave up the piano for good in my late teens.... until I was lucky enough to start with a teacher who was also a concert pianist. He introduced me to the philosophy of using anatomy, weight and movement to make piano playing as easy and effortless as possible. I was blown away, no teacher had ever told me about any of this before. They all focused on slow practice, repetition/drilling, hanon, exercises etc. He completely reworked my entire technique and approach to the piano. Within less than a year, I was playing advanced repertoire that I had always dreamed of playing such as Liszt, Chopin, Rachmaninoff etc.

[@PIANO_LAB]

Wow! This sounds almost exactly like my own experience. Only for me, I hit Hanon with such intensity that I injured myself lol. I'm glad to hear that you didn't have to deal with that (I assume).

[@sacrilegiousboi978]

@@PIANO_LAB well, now that I think about it, I did have some on and off pain in my wrists and arms in my mid teens that sometimes left me unable to play properly for weeks at a time (I also fell in sport on my hands a few times around that time so assumed it was just due to that)… but I don’t get any pain at all now in my mid 20s so maybe it was linked!

[@jonathanwingmusic]

I had a similar experience - been playing for years, with Hanon and similar exercise books part of my daily routine, figuring that one day, after enough blood sweat & tears, maybe one day I could play repertoire I really enjoy - but only once I master all these exercises "gauranteed" to grant me the ultimate finger independence. Any failures to break speed walls or technique plateaus were a matter of needing to practice more exercise books. I then found a really good teacher earlier this year who is also a concert pianist. On our first day I brought him all my exercise books including Hanon, Czerny, Pischna, etc. The first thing he told me was that I can basically throw them out lol. He immediately put me on a steady diet of real repertoire - of pieces I selected from composers I enjoy. He emphasized that whatever technique I need to develop can be found within, and musical and enjoyable to boot. 9 months in and I have seen my piano technique explode more than it did in 5 years with Hanon! And I'm not even practicing harder or longer at all, either. Piano has become way more fun again! I don't think Hanon was totally worthless, I do think it perhaps has its value for a short time with early students developing basic finger technique. But I'm so glad I've moved on and I'm playing and learning from real music :)

[@sacrilegiousboi978]

@@jonathanwingmusic yeah, having the right technique speeds up progress so fast and I think Martha Argerich said that she never did technical exercises because she thought it was a waste of time and relied on repertoire to develop specific technical skills. My teacher said it was a complete waste of time and energy too.

[@sacrilegiousboi978]

@@PIANO_LAB I've noticed over the years that some people are seemingly technically gifted - everything just seems to fit whilst they play, they progress fast and they are very VERY accurate. My friend was always more "technically gifted" than me, ever since he was a child. He rarely hit wrong notes and seemed less like he was "battling the keyboard" than when I was playing. I asked him how he played so accurately and he didn't really know how, his teacher doesn't even spend that much time teaching technique to him. Recently I filmed some of his performances to analyse them and lo and behold, he was doing all the things that you advocate and that my latest teacher told me to do after years of doing it wrong - strong bridge/arch shape and strong curved fingers, good level wrist, use of lateral arm movement, use of gravity, lack of unnecessary tension etc. I told him about this and he was completely unaware that he was even doing them lol... so he was instinctively doing all these things automatically, they never had to be taught to him.

[@AmbivalentMind]

Misread the title as "Why I quit heroin" 💀

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

Nice one.

[@awwwwhhhyeahhhh]

Stayed anyway 😅

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

Maybe he wasn't burning it but trying to melt the glue on the binding.@@awwwwhhhyeahhhh

[@maestro2033]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@MoneyAli75]

Now that’s real dope

[@michaelgfotiades]

I find a couple minutes of Hanon played at a slow to moderate speed is a good way to get my shoulders out of my ears. It's simple enough that there's enough mental bandwidth leftover to find and release tension and correct posture. It's a helpful reset when I find myself tensing up.

[@師太滅絕]

1:41 "If you just practise......." That is a sure formular of failure. Not just Hanon, but any technical exercise, even those of Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff...... if you just practise (without thinking and analysing what you are doing), it is futile and potentially damaging too. The key is, practise with enlightenment.

[@larghedoggo9607]

However, people would care more on Chopin and less on Hanon lol They indeed have huge gap of musicality. So, idealy Hanon would also be useful, however, mostly not😂

[@NightBreakDreamer]

So glad to see you making videos again. They have been very enlightening and invaluable to students like myself.

[@Jerday0001]

My instructor gave me exercises, probably to get me on the keyboard and repeatedly playing in early days. She said to me "we can do the bookwork and schooling, or we can pick pieces and you will learn as you choose harder pieces." Now I have learned a number of different movements from different pieces. Pretty amazing because when I play improv I see those movements come in. I stay interested because I play what draws me in, and keep playing because it takes me away.

[@JSerrato289]

I never saw Hanon as exercises to make me a better pianist, I just use them for warmup

[@ezandman6804]

FIne. For me it was to create my musical toolbox.

[@garretgerritsen8988]

I love Hanon. I can work out technique slowly. The exercises have everything you need . I have achieved greater mindfulness by going through the exercises. Interested in your perspective, maybe took a little too long to convey it. Each pianist must create their journey. The image of torching the Hanon book seems a little medieval

[@DanKaschel]

this video would be 3x better if it were 1/3 the length

[@inaki.rodriguez]

Thank you very much Piano Lab for these 29 minutes of wise words. I am reading 3 books you recommended in another video, Stannard incl. I have since 4 months tendovaginitis in the right wrist, as piano beginner and when it gets better I will for sure try to apply all these techniques like forearm rotation, shaping/walking arm, in-out movement for "weak" fingers etc. Thank you for your channel! 😊

[@sivfsivf8767]

The Hanon method is essential for advanced pianists, offering multiple benefits. First, it boosts finger agility and independence, crucial for tackling complex pieces. It strengthens technique, improving the foundation for refined performances. Additionally, it enhances precision, critical for clean execution. Practicing Hanon also increases endurance, allowing for longer playing without fatigue, and improves flexibility and control, essential for musical expressiveness. Though these exercises are valuable at all levels, their relevance persists even in advanced conservatory grades. The key lies in the approach: focus on the quality of movement and musicality over speed or mechanical repetition. Hanon should not be the sole resource; combining it with other technical studies and varied repertoire ensures comprehensive musical development. For upper-level pianists, Hanon is especially useful for warming up and maintaining robust technique. Mindful and directed practice of these exercises can significantly contribute to technical and musical advancement, even for those with high skill levels. In summary, Hanon is a valuable tool in any serious pianist's arsenal, providing a solid base for exploring the instrument's infinite possibilities. Bests ❤

[@davehoffman9072]

Wonderfully said. Harmonious

[@smartjackasswisdom1467]

The best piano book I've ever read is The Fundamentals of Piano Practice by Chuan C. Chang. I learned more from it than from any teacher I've had. Not to say that my teachers were bad, the issue is that very good piano players do not necessarily know how to teach what comes naturally to them.

[@DaveVillaV]

This has been an eye opening video. Thanks a lot for giving me a different perspective. I'm into ABRSM piano grade 8, hope soon I could take some zoom lessons with you. Love you man!

[@johnclarke6198]

Hanon and Czerny etc., are useful to beginners if used as a starting point for sight reading.

[@petertyrrell3391]

One problem is that people play pieces faster than the composer intended them to go or try to play pieces faster than they could go when they were written. In other words, modern ideas of tempo are imposed on music from the past.

[@stephenvinson6474]

I was lucky to study with a teacher who knew the technique approach of Guy Maier. I studied also a year with her teacher who had personally studied with Maier. Maier's approach was much like that of Taubman. He did include physical movement as part of beautiful piano playing. His studies for developing facility in playing were the first I studied. There was a small booklet composed of his question and answer section in the old Etude Magazine The booklet: The Piano Teacher's Companion, give you a good idea of his approach and philosophy. He once studied with Schnabel, and was a fine musician/pianist.

[@Gilloringsend]

I also like your explanations because when they are so fundamental I always feel they can be applied to many life experiences not just piano

[@virvt3819]

Thank you for this video. Years ago I used to study 5 hours every day. I was always tensed and tired after practicing. It was like this for almost four years till I git tired. I felt I improved but I cound't solve many problems, plus my left hand was always tensed and it really hurted. At that moment I did't know why and my teather didn't help me that much. After some years of quiting studying, I am re building my technique again. All by myself, practicing also patience and realising that I wasn't tought arm wight, rotation, and other techniques and that was the reason of my tension and problems at the piano. Thanks for sharing all this and I hope you share more content😄

[@DrMaxdC]

Great points, Craig, you could have convinced me in less than half the time. But turning the table: what exercises you recommend for arpeggios and scales to make them interesting and not a chore?

[@Wootwootwooton]

I took lessons in the 1970s for about 5 years. I hadn't played for many decades, but my husband gave me a semi-weighted keyboard for Christmas. I dug my old books out of a closet - Schaum A through D, and Hanon, as well as the pop pieces I liked and the classical xeroxes I didn't like. I tried starting over, playing the Schaum pieces, with their drawings and repertoire geared to 1960s children; when I got to "Mammy's Little Baby Like Shortnin' Bread," I quit. Luckily, my husband is a musician and has better taste (and never did Hanon or Czerny!). He had the Bartok Mikrokosmos series, as well as collections of classical pieces within my ability. Playing completely new pieces has been really helpful, as they have no traumatic connections, and my sight-reading has improved. I still felt the need to heal from the Hanon, as I had tried to play as written and taught (wrist UP!, fingers HIGH!) so I've been slowly using the Faber-Hanon book. I find the gestures and preparatory exercises very useful, but tend to skip the actual Hanon.

[@carlhopkinson]

Czerny wrote many fine musical technical exercises.

[@katherinewagner6023]

Thanks!

[@danskelley6021]

Great video Craig. Thanks for sharing!

[@ryannelson1666]

would love to see a video on playing trills without tension!

[@karlrovey]

It's basically carpal tunnel in a book if you use the technique Hanon describes. As far as Hanon only being known as an organist, that means he was likely dealing with a key action even more heavy than the piano due to the organ-building practices in the 1800s.

[@puddlejumper3259]

Short meditation allowing your mind to wander or be blank helps increase skill improvement DRASTICALLY. Your mind will subconsciously replay what just happened, piano, snowboarding, or any other practice, typically backwards something like 30x normal speed. So every few minutes of practice you will achieve peak improvement by taking a 30 second rest or so with your eyes closed and allowing, not forcing, your mind to be blank. Andrew Huberman covers this for general practice.

[@bachduongnguyen7345]

As long as we practice Hanon in a proper way without having pain or fatigue it shouldn't be a problem in inclusion???

[@trombonemunroe]

Dorothy Taubman talks about how stretching the fingers and causing pain to the hands is not recommended for good piano playing or even good hand health. In all cases the hands should be playing in a natural position and fingers should not be lifting independently: when one finger needs to lift, the whole hand needs to lift, and rotation should be a key element of playing, particularly with arpeggios and when playing with the thumb and especially the little finger. Playing should always feel good, never bad: if the hands are experiencing discomfort or pain, the form is flawed. My takeaway is: play Hanon (among other things like arpeggios, scales, etc.), but don't take Hanon's advice about *how* to play (in particular, don't try to stretch the hand, lift fingers independently, or laterally deviate the wrist (which you will find makes it impossible to move the fingers fluidly). Do rotate the forearm and hand as a means of arpeggiation and to play the little finger.

[@jonathanwyble4227]

Incidentally, Brahms wrote a book of technical exercises, which covers (19th century) polyrhythms. Hanon can serve to build up a pianist's muscular facility (if not actual technique) by providing training volume. (Scales can, of course, arguably accomplish a similar goal.) An analogy could be that if a soccer player does not spend much time on the field, sprints, distance running, and sport-specific drills can help them with foot speed, endurance, and coordination. Hanon can thus help "get your fingers moving" and provide them with even wear, especially as a beginner, when your repertoire pieces may not have very many notes (unrelated to Mozart's "too many"). Beginners may have an easier time with Hanon than with scales for several reasons.

[@rengevid]

The pain within the fingers or the wrist may come from too close sitting to the keyboard or too high, incorrect posture. The wrist should be leveled to the keyboard, and never with high fingering approach. Also from beginning too fast instead of slight coming in slowly into the fold. Interesting gesture would be to play the exercises in tenths rather than to the octave.

[@afrodite1832]

What do you use instead? Brahms? Philipp? Czerny?

[@josealvarenga3198]

I got to say though, what Hanon's exercise has helped me with is to maintain eveness when I play scales. And I see how it influenced my improvisation, specially when I play Jazz.

[@puddlejumper3259]

Yeah. 11 minutes in and all you've said is some people will hurt themselves following the advice of Hanon. Ok. Yeah. Mindful practice. Not over stretching. I guess he assumed that people wouldn't push themselves past their limits. Stretching is good, pain while stretching is bad.

[@rengevid]

Use more the weight of the arms in a counter circular approach.

[@glasss1978]

I gave up on Hanon when I couldn't pass through the first (!) exercise and do it as prescribed (108 tempo, 3 times). I'd say I'm an advanced player but whatever I did, during the second repetition (the first was flawless) the burning started in my arm muscles and I couldn't complete the third one. I blamed myself of course, I thought my technique was bad, I wasn't relaxed enough, no rotation, wrong movement you name it. Now I don't think that was the problem, I now think it had a lot to do with my hand size - which is quite small (octave fine, 9th is a stretch). And I strongly believe that your hand size determines the risk of injury you take with these exercises. The smaller your hand, the greater and more constant the stretching (=tension) while you're playing (imagine a rubber band - mine is stretched tight compared to someone with bigger hands), therefore you endure more strain on every structure, tendons, ligaments, muscles.

[@chester6343]

most people can only just reach a tenth so a 9th isnt too bad, you burned because your technique is poor. an advanced player wouldnt struggle with hanon at 108

[@glasss1978]

@@chester6343 I said 9th is already a stretch. My teachers said I'm advanced, so I guess that's what I am, not sure how you can judge my technique over the internet. :/ My hands (and every bit of my body really) are also stiffer than normal, I'm trying to stretch them daily, it's hard work.

[@chester6343]

@@glasss1978 sorry but I judged it fairly based on the evidence you provided - not being able to play hanon at 108.. I can play hanon faster and in different keys and I don't consider myself advanced at all.. but keep practicing and It will come, also don't give up on hanon imo, it has been really beneficial to my development personally, provided you play correctly focusing your attention on any tension.. What bothers me is when people bash hanon they're bashing the 30 other exercises too which are just scales, arpeggi, dominant 7ths, diminished 7ths, repeated notes, octaves.. it's mostly just basics that you would be required to play in an exam anyway.. Rach did an interview where he talks about hanon at length and what was required of them at the russian school. I would take his advice over the OP any day of the week.

[@glasss1978]

@@chester6343 I'm an organist not a pianist, I'm currently practising the Guilmant Finale from Sonata no 1, around 115, and it doesn't cause me any problem. No pain whatsoever, it's an absolute joy to play. The repetitiveness of the Hanon is that I feel causing the problem, ie. my hands staying basically in the very same stretched position throughout 3 repetitions (6 pages that is) is just too much. Of course I can play it through once feeling no pain and no tension, but then the pain comes, inevitably, during the second round.

[@chester6343]

@@glasss1978 what about Hanon would do that though.. it's basic, even with the repetition that should not be an issue.. good technical playing doesn't suffer from repetition.. poor technique results in burning.. because burning means there is tension which means you're playing badly..

[@hurricane4912]

I never really practise scales, octaves, trills or any other technique. Just improvise around any technique you want to improve.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

I don't either anymore. I know all the scale and arp fingerings, but work out musical passages with close/slow analysis of problem issues. Also, the musical context and my approach may cause me to change fingering based on fluidity and efficiency. You can't just go over and over these rote exercises and learn much flexibility of approach, they are too rigid. Time practicing artificial exercises takes away practice time from working on real scores, which are a pleasure to decipher and master.

[@hurricane4912]

@@DavidMiller-bp7et exactly, and improvising helps you try to use them in actual scenarios which pieces might have.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

Thanks.@@hurricane4912

[@pianoplaynight]

Same! I did my fair share back in the day, mainly to get comfortable with tonalities. But nowadays I just create excercises out of whatever passage is giving me trouble at the time. I don't like the idea of practicing "pure mechanical technique" at all. What about touch, phrasing, dynamics... And as you suggest, improvising (much neglected art amongst contemporary classical players)?

[@LivingEpistles444]

I'm just sitting here with my brand new hanon exercise book from amazon and looking up videos about it and i'm just like... well what do I do now?

[@joshuaking4139]

I would love a technique breakdown of the technique of Oscer Peterson or Art Tatum

[@dominiquebrice3876]

Hey do you have a video if you playing and practicing scales and arpeggios

[@PIANO_LAB]

I have a number of videos on scale an arpeggio technique. And I demonstrate these techniques in various other videos as well.

[@dominiquebrice3876]

@@PIANO_LAB and are your videos on instagram as well ?

[@BertFlanders]

What was the original target for the HANON book? I think it aimed at children that were learning piano for 2 year or even a bit more. The first exercises are suitable for small hands. Further down the road it introduces scales and arpeggio's. After all it is not a bad way to build stamina and a basic finger dexterity. Why is HANON so controversial?

[@southpark5555]

The exercises themselves are fine. It's just that in those days and times, they didn't have the WHS (workplace health and safety - redtape etc) stuff that we have today. So the way to try to cut down on issues is to just help spread the word that - in the wrong 'hands' - Hanon can lead to injuries, stresses/strains etc. It's necessary to educate people about it before they start jumping in and try to get through Hanon with brute force.

[@cayvzcvlt]

I've always hated Hanon. I threw it away years ago. Bought a new one recently because I wanted to get serious about practice again (and forgot how much I hated it). Now I know why. Thanks so much for making this video... and me feel adequate & competent again lol. These old texts have a way of making you feel like you suck - because they just don't explain things truly & thoroughly, overall.

[@samuelmelton9995]

When I was a kid back in the 70's and 80's, my piano teacher had me playing scales and arpeggios. We worked through every page of Hanon and worked through tons of Czerny. Scales and arpeggios I didn't mind. Hanon I hated. Czerny I tolerated. When I attended Brown University In the early 80's, I kid you not, but my professor Doctor Oleta Bartholomew used only one set of technique books. She used Edna Mae Burnam's A Dozen a Day Books. She didn't care how well you played or how advanced you played she had all of her students playing out of these books. She had everyone begin with the prep book and work to the end of the series. She had us transposing every piece into every key major and minor. She taught us all the physical techniques using these books, arm weight rotation, wrist roll offs, wrist circles, pivoting, ect. I think I learned more about technique using these books than I did from learning Hanon and Czerny.

[@Gilloringsend]

Hannon can be used for its patterns ? Rather than physical exercises but even then surely playing melodically is more beneficial for the ear for example

[@katherinewagner6023]

What do you think of Kohler's exercises? I came back to the piano after many decades and reconnected with my college piano teacher. For a year I've practiced 2 hours a day and lots of finger exercises. Recently my left hand started locking up and freezing up while working on Kohler's Vol. 2 School of Velocity no. 10. I was playing it over and over ratching up the metronome one notch at a time. After an hour my 5th and 4th fingers seems to lose coordination and I just got worse, not better. She assumed due to my being in my sixties that it must be arthritis. But it feels like my whole forearm is tight and sore. It seems more like tendinitis. I'm hoping I can talk her out of doing these exercises. She taught much differently back in college. Coming back to her she's a lot more of a finger emphasis. I'm frustrated that I've paid a lot and practiced a lot for a year and now she says I'll never be able to play for anyone because of arthritis. She's 90 now and forgetful and doesn't see well so teaching through a Zoom screen may be part of the problem.

[@user-yo5yr9yr2h]

I'm currently going back to piano as an adult after a 10 year hiatus. I'm currently doing hanon exercises that seem relevant at the time of the sheet music i'm trying to learn currently. But this is giving me food for thought about how i treat my warm ups. I do think it's kind of strange to be playing super duper fast as a warm up. Sprinters don't warm up by sprinting. So if I'm working on a fast piece it makes a little more sense to slow down and just get my fingers warm before jumping into something hard right? I'll probably continue to use the hanon book but keep it chill and not be so hard on myself to keep fingers absolutely independent. Focus on wrist and arm fluidity... My piano teacher did give me a hanon book at some point but he handed it to me kind of late, as i was more intermediate/advanced. I wonder if he had similar opinions to yours. He never said. He just wanted my pinky to stick out less I suppose.

[@rychmccain3832]

There is a difference between people who are naturally musically gifted and those who are not. Some musicians are technically proficient from training but can't improvise by ear or play without music. Others play masterfully by ear but can't read well. Cervantsz can play complicated pieaces by hearing it just once. A lot of music school now tell students to finger how it feels best to them.

[@make_the_world_better_place]

Glad I watched this video before starting practicing Hanon😂 I was curious why my piano teacher never asked me to practice Hanon

[@michael1sukenik]

Hi Piano Lab, you say Hanon is not your favorite. Could you pls share what is your favorite(s) ?

[@PIANO_LAB]

I recently posted a video where I share several exercise book that I like. I think the video is titled "These are better than Hanon"

[@Todzuum]

One thing I did was read about what the greatest pianist assigned their students. For example Chopin assigned George matias moscheles etudes.

[@db6259]

I practiced Hanon Hours and Hours. And after some years I would say: I /My Body learned nothing. Null. I practice with Literature Pieces now and I learn the Patterns too. But naturally and in a good sounding way, concious, musically. Detlef from Germany

[@hymnistic]

On a more essential, level, there is a "right way" (and a wrong way) to play any note and group of notes. When faced with many boring notes in a row, as recommended by Hanon, your focus tends to be on consuming them all where you get impatient and tend to forget the formula for success (doing it the right way more often than doing the wrong way). Pick ONLY a few of these exercises or even just a few notes of one of them (or any other piece of music) and learn to play the notes correctly; independent finger motion from the bridge (at the third knuckle) making sure no other part of your hand moves during the stroke with complete relaxation in between EVERY note, very quietly; leggiero. And program that in so you do it every time. Even legato should be staccato in terms of muscle contraction/relaxation; between notes, you should hold with minimal pressure. You might consider your body motion as being identical to the double escapement action of the hammers, as an analogy. Once you've mastered that, then put the notes into groups of 2 and 4, employing rotation or lifting and dropping arm from elbow or shoulder as the means of sound production on the strong beats). AFTER you have perfect technique (better than 61.8% success ratio every time you touch a key), you can theoretically get a PLUS benefit from practicing most anything, without it, you may just be repetitiously "doing it wrong" and reinforcing that.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

Why not just start doing the same with real scores.

[@rodnaskel2123]

What do you think about 'quiet' practice (piano instead of forte), is it really useful for different situations? For example would it help to practice Chopin's op.10 #1 that way, pressing every key but softly, and not loudly and sort of 'firmly'? (Of course you have to play even soft music 'firmly' in some sense, but still hope I made the question clear)

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

I'm not the prof here; you may have meant it for Craig; my 2 cents is that one has to play quietly with relaxed hands, wrists and forearms FIRST. Using only gravity of weight of arms to drop the hands. Once that is mastered, adding more weight from higher is a natural progression. This is probably aimed at Craig because I don't play Chopin or other classical repertoire, mostly arranged jazz, blues, pop, musicals, film, rock, arranged for piano solo. I'm in the vast majority, like 93%-7%. The fortunate thing is that the robust technique Craig teaches is applicable to any style or genre. Just good piano. Among the very few really top teachers out there.@@rodnaskel2123

[@dominiquebrice3876]

It definitely makes my hand feel weird after

[@Gilloringsend]

Isn’t it brilliant that we now know something we always suspected that music is an all round skill made up of many many tiny concepts both physical and mental that we can all understand. Even if we cannot do what we see skilled pianists play we can still in some way understand how they came to achieve this feat.

[@erikg2515]

Marc-andré hamelin recorded the whole book and its beautiful.

[@PIANO_LAB]

You know that's an April fool's joke, right??? 😂🤣😅

[@devlinbearra8897]

Alan Coghlan is a good example of movement. I'd be interested in your take on some of the things he brings up. It's all along those lines. He indentifies, for example, the actual cause of tension and of unevenness.

[@dominiquebrice3876]

And are you on instagram?

[@rengevid]

Each one of these exercises can be approached with more than 10 variations in rhythm, in intervals, in timing, in phrasing. Try being a bit more creative??? Just doing them as they are in the book, will lend to your just accepting the norm. Musician never accept the NORM. Creativity is the KEY!

[@peterpegrem9837]

I have been learning as an old adult for over 3 years now. I stopped major scale practice and small amount of Hannon I did. I now play the minor pentatonic blues scale in triplets on top of 5 finger boogie woogie bass patterns in the left. It took me a year to get this working in all keys. It was difficult and awkward for a long time. And this is what I use to put strength in my fingers. Plus I have Schmitt Five Finger Exercises that I sometimes put a boogie woogie bass to. If we do what we like more surely that makes us diverse individuals.

[@maxf3888]

Do you play the actual music? I also adult piano student, who spent years on excercises and simple pieces. And I was unable to improve my play until I switched to a new teacher, who pushed me to quit excercises and start practice complex pieces like Chopin etudes. Anecdotaly, it also improves my scales and Hanon excersises, which I was unable to improve for several years.

[@peterpegrem9837]

It takes me along time to learn a new song, then I post it on youtube. I do simple piano covers@@maxf3888

[@jasonmanley7815]

The new Hanon-Faber book is where it's at.

[@PIANO_LAB]

I do like the Hanon-Faber book! Teaches you "how" to practice the exercises!

[@jasonmanley7815]

@@PIANO_LAB Exactly. It's exactly what you talk about in this video about relaxation and using rotation, etc

[@HonkyMonky]

great video ;)

[@Titurel]

If I had no Hanon I'd have no left hand.

[@southpark5555]

I know what he means though in the vid. Some little kids that do hanon is probably burning out their little fingers and muscles and tendons - because they're doing the exercises before they're ready for it. That is - they're good, but they're brute forcing it, and is then busting up their own fingers and hands etc.

[@matthewchang7252]

I get completely that Hanon might not be a good idea to make the “perfect hands” for children, but to be honest, if all piano teachers had the knowledge of the dangers, tricks, and misconceptions that you possess, it wouldn’t be a big problem 😅😅😅❤

[@PIANO_LAB]

Agreed!

[@lizweekes8076]

A teacher I had in Scotland thought it was a good book but my teacher in England didn't like it.

[@silv3762]

I think that if you use these type of exercises to learn efficient movement etc., they can actually help a lot. I've played some liszt exercises (most of the time stuff like thirds/sixths/octaves/chords/repeated notes) while trying to play as free as possible, and now if i have an octave passage i don't struggle with it that much (obviously, there can be exception to this). Don't understand people that dislike you for saying quite literally facts. Also, do you have a video about shoulders or something related? for some reason my left shoulder feels tensed or something similar, not sure, and i think that is at least a part of the reason why my left hand isn't very well controlled.. thank you.

[@PIANO_LAB]

I agree, using those kinds of exercises to learn, efficient movement is quite effective. I learned efficient movement through scales, arpeggios, octave scales, double third scales, etc. Ultimately, you have to have a way to learn efficient movements. You can do this simply by playing pieces, but I actually like using other means of learning the movements and efficiency too. I don't directly have anything specifically talking about shoulders. But in multiple older videos I do mention a good deal about shoulders. Sitting posture is a big issue. The low back needs to be properly positioned so the shoulders are in a good position. Also, it's important to make sure that your shoulder is appropriately moving as your hands and arms move. Even the slightest movement of the hand, wrist or arm should be accompanied by some shoulder movement. Try videoing your right side playing something, then video your left side playing the exact same thing and see if it looks the same. Hope that helps!

[@FredHenry1850]

I'm watching this at the very beginning of my piano playing life like I'm actually an accomplished pianist. Ya, right. I should probably just stop watching all YT piano tutorials until I have been playing for at least two years everyday.

[@Oi-mj6dv]

Hot take: pure technique drills and exercices are a massive waste of time. If you are gonna do them, at least move them across the goddamned cricle.

[@rogerg4916]

I think it is reasonable to assume that Hanon was not a virtuoso pianist or he would have had a reputation as such. Not being one, how could he claim to teach others to be virtuosos?

[@galadrielcelticwarrior9533]

I briefly began on Hanon exercises upon the recommendation/urging of a teacher & friends, but stopped soon after as I had reservations / disagreed with the technique that the exercises are intended to develop. I was personally concerned that attempting to stretch / contort the natural structure of our hands would do more damage in the long term. I’ve personally found the Taubman technique of “effortless playing” a lot more “natural” to the hands & fingers which result in less tension & fatigue, & the technique in fact makes it easier for me to play pieces of a faster tempo. So yes, I subscribe to your views on Hanon too.

[@PIANO_LAB]

Taubman understood how the playing apparatus 'works'. Unfortunately most people don't.

[@galadrielcelticwarrior9533]

@@PIANO_LAB Yes she certainly did. Her technique is fairly new & therefore less well known. Most of the teachers I’ve known are still pretty old-school & still emphasise finger independence, stretching handspans, finger reach, etc

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

Yes.@@PIANO_LAB

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

I believe you get it. Old school is not necessarily right. Technique is always evolving.@@galadrielcelticwarrior9533

[@kovacsdaniel7356]

@@galadrielcelticwarrior9533 I have a very similar experience, but it's so interesting that as I watch the greatest pianists I can't help but notice the presence of the principles Taubman emphasised...

[@tonyfrench4449]

I have the Hanon and Czerny books but have not touched them for years and years; piano is my hobby, not my trade, so I just focus on music I enjoy and that is within my feeble technique.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

That is what I do, regardless of level of experience.

[@ernieragogini3994]

I watched about 15 minutes of your vapid commentary: RE: Hanon - before your clickbait admonition consider the value of Hanon . The excercises as published are a template. They should be played in various keys, dotted rhythms (alternating the rhythms every 2 or 3 repetitions, contrary motion, octaves, 2 keys at the same time (diss.) triplets which change the pattern mentally, one hand as written the other augmented……goes on and on. Great physical workout without the boredom of repetition. Re: Fleisher. He did NOT injure his hand. He had focal dystopia which is often misjudged as the result of repetitive motion and confused therefore with carpel tunnel. Check out the factors of FD….it is a neurological aberration stemming from the brain. Damn man, do your research and use your imagination.

[@southpark5555]

oh geez !!!!!!!!!! Such heresy !!!!! This isn't going to go down well heheh. The 0:41 'hmm .. hmm' - clears throat is a sign hehehe ..... as in knowing going to open a can of worms hehe

[@charlesacaranci9039]

I think this guy has a valid point how you play is more important then what you play

[@PIANO_LAB]

YES!

[@OneStepToday]

It is a very good video. I am sure I commented harshly on such a video last year when I was more amateur, to some videos that dismiss Hanon as useless and advise against it. Now I think it may not be useless, but the right technique should be implemented. I have not faced any injury playing it because the stretch is tiny, and I never used the unnatural method of pressing other finger while playing the other; the worst issue is that it's quite boring, so I can't manage to continue any of it, and just remain at a couple of beginning exercises from Hanon. I have been self learning with a lot of gaps due to lack of focus in continuing anything. The injury I faced on the fifth finger was during playing from a tutorial video way beyond my level, and that guy was stretch 5th, and I played it the same way stretching too much the whole day, but the next day it started paining. I didn't know back then that we need to move the wrist to give room to the 5th, but that guy in video was not moving the wrist at all, and I played just like that, and got a very bad pain for days. The thumbnail is quite offensive and clickbait, I am glad you didnt really burn the book. I am beginning to agree that we should rely more on the melodious etude books than Hanon. The main reason for using Hanon I think is that it's most easy with fixed pattern. However, there are now similar easy with a little bit difficult and challenging exercises of two part counterpart exercises, more interesting than it, which we can use before jumping to the Czerny etc. I bet the Chinese technique still uses the outdated technique, which we can judge from the Chinese teachers. The western advance technique is most improved and there is no reason to follow outdated methods. You can use the analogy of Karate, kick boxing, Kung fu- which were all outdated old techniques of fighting, but now the world has moved to MMA which uses freestyle, aimed towards natural and best movement, rather than fixed mechanical patterns of punches and kicks. Even the Bible translations have been revised with time, however I think the traditional mindset people may be using Hanon like the KJV Bible, refusing to learn the advanced techniques and methods.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

Who on KZbin doesn't use some kind of so-called "clickbait?" What's really important is how the substance of the tutorial makes one a better pianist. I don't find it cheesy; of course, I agree with C about these traditional "exercise" books and I have tried many. Found them all lacking for developing technique but very good for creating hand tension and internal stress. The old school line is "No pain, no gain." Now I flatly reject that philosophy in every venue of my life.

[@OneStepToday]

I am just realizing that theres a definite chance of pain or tension when the beginner keeps practising the Hanon like exercise, bec natural music never has this much use of the 4-5 fingers, and a beginner isn't supposed to exercise the weakest muscle so much. It maybe fine if it comes with a warning that says do not play the same exercise more than couple of times and dont stress the fingers if they are weak. The beginner naturally practises for hours, if he plays that for hours, theres gonna be huge tension. It's like weight lifting of certain muscles that a beginner isnt supposed to do @@DavidMiller-bp7et

[@pianoplaynight]

​@@DavidMiller-bp7etthank you, so true! No pain = max gain, in any phisical endeavor really! Injury is lurking in the corner

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

@@pianoplaynight Playing shouldn't be hard. Simply, if it hurts, it's not right. I agree, it applies across the board.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

@@pianoplaynight PS: Playing piano is a repetitve stress activity. We want to minimize and relieve the stress with good movements and other tools. People think of chopping wood as repetitive stress; they seldom think of piano.

[@BLOP888]

23:42 we all know who that is

[@PIANO_LAB]

Just out of curiosity, who do you think I'm referring to?

[@BLOP888]

​@@PIANO_LAB Certain Chopin competition alumni

[@PIANO_LAB]

I don't think we're talking about the same person

[@frente_nordeste]

I prefer to listen Marc Hemlin ... Hamlin loves it

[@puddlejumper3259]

Yeah you've monologued for all of the first 10 minutes without saying anything other than "I don't like Hanon and I've moved away from it" Ok. WHY?!?!?!?

[@rengevid]

You silly boy! The training is for the mind. You are probably not able to play freely in an improvised notion. Jazz is not a musical category but an improvised emotion of creation coming through spontaneously depending on the moment. Not think of the physicality's of the engaging as to the Spirituality of your opened mind. The heart can never accept what the mind does not understand. You can practice Hanon and make coffee at thee same time, play Hanon and pay your bills, play Hanon and write a book about your life. Listen to the beauty of C Major. Better yet try these excises in all 12 tonalities. The Russian Conservatory students execute this. Plus to remember that the great Pianist Rachmaninoff endorsed this study throughout his artistic lifetime. Its pronounced "ANON". The "H" is silenced in French. The "A" is soft.

[@tammy1001]

Hanon. Not even once.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

Last half cent: You had the mischief in your expression. Maybe the most resistance comes from "and you should too." Probably could have done without that unless....I thought you were trying to read the fine print on the binding.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

At least 2 cents worth: A mini-hornets nest, not as bad as few others with would be "physicists" and other apoplectics. Even these get a lot of people talking and thinking as to (perhaps) why they defend what they do. This is the case with any new ideas and trends which challenge previous un-critiqued methodologies and practices. The classic "old school" maxims include stuff like "no pain, no gain," which I patently have grown to reject; it seems like a train wreck, a perfect Rx for slow progress and likely injuries. We should bear in mind that all music and the techniques that support it was "NEW" at one time; history is tension of new and old. I seriously doubt that Sviatislav Richter played Hanon, at least not for very long. Besides boredom, the biggest negative is how much time they take away from practice that could be spent on real, enjoyable and creative music. When I was in Uni music academy, we had an ancient professor who shuffled around the halls with his argumentative contention that "There was no good music composed after 1900." He was tolerated because he had been on faculty since the Punic Wars. I say do what helps you to get the most out of practice. We are responsible for ourselves, what we do with our time. I have yet to see one KZbin presenter that doesn't use one form or other of so-called "click bait." Is Khatia at the piano with high, direct camera, or Yuja bowing clickbait? I care about the substance of performance or the tutorial. Whatever helps me improve my playing; I can dismiss the noise as the usual bollocks, perhaps good advertising. Great substance dwarfs any glittery marquee. This is "show business" in simple terms per George Shearing. If you want to sell fruit and vegetables, it helps to have them neatly and attractively arranged in front of the store. Fun stuff. All good stuff has been controversial at some time. Now going to the channel of my friend in Wales, posted her Friday Fun segment, @rachelstarritt481, a unique player. Shameless, I know.

[@JorgeCalder]

Perhaps my understanding isn't as refined as you suggest, but I hold the belief that Hanon exercises serve as an excellent means for warming up and enhancing the muscles' coordination and strength in the fingers, consequently leading to improved finger independence, wrist stability, and forearm strength. Respectfully, I find your explanation rather unclear and lacking focus. I would appreciate a more concise video that directly references statements from piano virtuosos and experts.

[@PIANO_LAB]

I appreciate the feedback! What about my argument is unclear?

[@UltraLeetJ]

This is funny looks like someone got offended but cannot quite throw a fit about it. I completely agree with this video and appreciate the many better ways we can spend our resource that we will never recover which is time which hanon completely wastes

[@JorgeCalder]

@@UltraLeetJ Waste of time if you spend too much time playing them just like any other piano exercises including Carl Czerny and many others. Check out the KZbin video titled "Is Hanon Helpful?" by Ryan Slatko who provides a balanced analysis of the Hanon exercises and their effectiveness. It is informative and provides useful tips for practicing the exercises correctly. He also provides tips on how to practice the exercises correctly to avoid injury. He concludes the video by stating that the Hanon exercises can be helpful if practiced correctly, but they are not necessary for becoming a good pianist which is also true too. Cheers.

[@UltraLeetJ]

@@JorgeCalder this can be true but for a book to have a lot of people correcting its claims after the fact and also that we don't know for sure many things about hanon he's actually quite disconcerting to say the least. Furthermore I also have never heard of anyone getting injured by playing meaningful repertoire that aims to really enhance musicality and a lot of other things like Bach inventions at the same time that it improves technique which when you're a professional you seek out to do because you need to save on time and use it wisely it is true that you need to keep your fingers in shape and get chops from somewhere but definitely there are much better more practical and fun ways to do it

[@Todzuum]

Horowitz is another one with bad technique , Denis zhandonov has a video about it.

[@gspianoguitar4369]

I find this really odd in the piano world. The need to vilify, criticise, cast aspertions upon a historical figure who has enhanced / helped thousands upon thousands of young pianists some of whom went on to become historical greats themselves. If you take exercises from Hummel Szymanowska Chopin Leschetizky Liszt Matthay Carl Czerny Isidor Philipp Boulanger Neuhaus Cortot etc etc They all address in some form or other, exercises (some more 'musical' than others) to learn piano techniques. As a player and teacher for 50+ years I've seen students use these different exercises to address some technical need. I have never ever encountered this youtube myth that any of them will need you to call an ambulance for irrepairable damage to your fingers, wrists, hands or arms. Ever. If of course you hammer your fingers down throught the bottom of the bed for hours on end you might stupidly cause yourself some harm. However I've never known anybody do that. Ever. If Hanon for instance was 'harmful' it will be down to the individuals way of utilising them NOT the actual exercieses that Hanon wrote. If you play say the Liszt exercises they are in my opinion, more 'taxing' upon the body than anything Hanon ever wrote but of course if worked on with a sensible head they will not harm you either. Rachmaninoff renownedly thought Hanon was a great utility as do many many other great pianists. Are they wrong and you are right? I think not. Personally once you get Hanon's shapes worked out you can do a lot with them. The older Russian school had a reputation for using a lot of Hanon transposing many into black key keys. Do the first 5 in Db or A major instead of C major and you'll find the ability to get inbetween the black keys extremely useful as it forces the thumb to a black note pushing the hand into the keyboard which in a lot of more difficult music is a necessary technique. Doesn't have to be quick either. Excellent exercises...and no ambulance required! Poor Hanon. I'm mystified why pianists and teachers like yourself need to criticise him when his work is so obviously beneficial to any one playing the instrument. Very odd.

[@NeilBarton-m6z]

Your critique of Hanon could be applied every piece of music ever written. Why not just teach your pupils to play them well like any other piece of music so that all your objections to Hanon disappear?

[@davehoffman9072]

You're in the way. Talk, talk, talk...Hanon has been helping people for years. Substantiated by well known teachers. I have benefitted immensely from the Hanon hooks.. Don't like it, get over it. And you're claiming what most people think. What most people think. Oh, really. And Hanon is part of the much bigger picture.

[@jtt6650]

He has very weak fingers and palms and that’s why he’s prone to injuries. He uses all this “rotation” to compensate for weak hands, but the result in his case is a mushy, blobby sound and everything he plays is on the slow side, not professional. He can’t even play a singing legato melody. So he blames Hanon as a scapegoat. And it’s very true most people don’t play the piano well. Has nothing to do with Hanon.

[@francissquire9910]

I've always thought that Hanon was a waste of time.

[@vivyrox7202]

Hanon is great. Vapid video and commentary....

[@justintran3265]

Oh man did Hanon jump start my musical passages on the piano! Thank you Mr. Hanon!

[@peterkrauss6962]

Rachmaninoff disagrees lol

[@paulrhodesquinn]

I rarely criticise other players but I pity your students. I really do. Clickbait nonsense from another KZbin charlatan who can’t play well. If you want to know about how to practice Hanon effectively check out Denis Zhdanov who really can play and understands technique. It’s embarrassing.

[@rengevid]

Great piano pedagogy - Charles Luis Hanon - Anton Litschesky, not the Viennese Carl Czerny. have you ever tried to re locate to Europe to study the piano. Get out of the American mindset of learning, and playing European Classical Music.

[@ronartest7748]

hanon is cancer

[@serkantekdemir9946]

Criticizing Hanon is one thing but using an image of burning his widely used classic book as the cover of a video is very disrespectful to say the least. Very cheap click bait tactic. Unsubscribed.

[@PIANO_LAB]

Disrespectful to who? Lol

[@luytmiau1363]

que, what why

[@ebbenielsen7]

@@PIANO_LAB Disrespectful to culture and literature in general.

[@serkantekdemir9946]

@@PIANO_LAB I'd like to assume that you never asked that question but how about disrespectful to all piano teachers/schools or people who help others learn piano, Imagine that you published your own piano lesson book and some random pianist is burning it just because he disagrees with the content and he finds it not useful. How would you feel? would you feel offended?

[@MilAS829]

@@ebbenielsen7it’s not like he’s putting a knife to Hanon’s throat or a fire to the American flag. The guy is putting flames on a piano exercise book. If you’re gonna get mad at least provide some sort of specific argument on why he shouldn’t put that in his thumbnail. I think that’s totally fair and he’s provided multiple reasons as to why he dislikes Hanon. He’s a literal teacher who’s speaking from multiple experiences and the reality of these hanon books. I too agree with a good bit of what he’s saying.

[@luismonmex]

Only the ignorants burn books

[@ebbenielsen7]

Hanon is French and is pronounced without the h at the beginning.

[@PIANO_LAB]

I know that, but if I pronounce it like that, no one would know what I'm talking about! Also when I say Debussy, Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Bach etc. My pronunciation is not perfect because the names come from languages that are not native to my tongue.

[@ebbenielsen7]

@@PIANO_LAB No, we can't all pronounce all names perfectly. When we do not come from the country in question. But we don't have to pronounce it completely wrong with obvious mistakes for that reason. You don't say Rebussy, Sachmaninoff, Tjopin, Fach etc.

[@PIANO_LAB]

I'm not sure why this is such a big deal? In any case, if I tried to pronounce it with a silent h I would butcher it and it would sound very strange as I do not have the correct intonation because I have never learned French.

[@ebbenielsen7]

@@PIANO_LAB It's not a big deal. You're the one calling it a big deal. Among musicians here in Denmark - where, as you know, we do not speak French - it is very natural to say Hanon without the H and with an intended French sound. We don't think it sounds strange. But we do that when someone says it with an H. But do as you like - of course.

[@mirosawborek1025]

I've just come across your comment. It's you that's making such a big deal out of a name. In my country we also say Hanon and the H is not silent. Debussy Chopin are french names and people who don't speak french won't pronounce them correctly. Same as if you were to pronounce some polish names - you'd surely made a mistake. And the author of the video is right. Most people would not understand Anon. What's more, you can't compare Chopin to Hanon. Chopin is known all around the world for a reason. Musical reason.

[@keys6]

I think what works for one... might not work for another... I know some that swear by Hanon...and Czerny exercises... (one friend explained strengthening of fingers 4 and 5)...and others that wouldnt want Hanon in the house! Different stroked for different folks...

[@PIANO_LAB]

Of course, every person is entitled to their own opinion and can do whatever they want. However, the idea that what I'm explaining doesn't work for everyone is simply not true. It's biomechanics. It works because it's literally how our bodies move correctly. As I mentioned in the video, those whom practice hannon exercises and as if by 'enchantment' develop their technique are the exceptions - not the rule.

[@revdeandawg]

Helpful and important but this video was WAY TOO LONG. Could have been five minutes long.

[@DavidMiller-bp7et]

Good talk. There is a ton of gobbledygook bollocks floating around out there and continues durable through the years, decades, centuries. I started with Hanon, Czerny and all; got so bored with it, I quit. Your points about injury is well taken; my deal is that the same patterns come up in real music, not contrived exercises. I could not foresee myself practicing exercises for performance, unless it would be at Boring t'Death Hall. I prefer to work on real music. I have learned to analyze a lot of my own techniques for learning/practice. I take all advice with skepticism; I trust but also verify that what is claimed works for me. I did lots of scales and arps; now I don't even do those. Just work to solve the challenges in the music to my satisfaction, which I might say is a pretty high standard; not claiming perfection, just a high standard as music academy grad. Mostly, robust technique allows me to play a piece as I want.

[@joshuaking4139]

I would love a technique breakdown of the technique of Oscer Peterson or Art Tatum