Why I stopped using VR for IL-2 GB... and why you should take a look at some point

[@stonecliff6547]

I am ruined for anything but VR now with my HP G2. Yes. it can be a pain, but you adjust quickly. I don't even want to race or flight sim without VR anymore.

[@MegaIronica]

Same here! I have a Quest 2 but it is still à damn good VR headset. Also, I was not playing flight sim at all before VR. I am also much more into sim racing because of it. Playing on a flat screen is a video game. In VR it is a simulation.

[@alexsp7086]

Got a G2 visuals are great but the actual headset is rubbish compared to older VR head sets. Controllers and tracking are some of the worst out there. But honestly DCS and IL2 look better and perform better on a Monitor. Yes the vr feeling of immersion is insane, but i prefer the crisp visuals of the monitor than the VR. Get a 32 inch G7 Samsung.

[@cmdrspidey0026]

Same.

[@mco51193]

@Salty Squid agreed. For me, at this point anyway, if it’s a flying or driving game and it’s not in VR, I won’t buy it. I just can’t go back to flat screen after spending so much time in VR. IL-2 is absolutely one of the best VR experiences out there at any price point, and it’s incredible if you’re somebody that appreciates World War II airplanes and enjoys dogfighting. If you’re looking for another great one, make sure to check out “Star Wars: Squadrons” too…if you’re a Star Wars fan, it’s a dream come true. There’s a small, but very dedicated community, and they are easily some of the nicest people I’ve run into online. It’s definitely worth checking out!

[@markp2085]

Same. If the game can use VR, I will only play in VR.

[@fraggsta]

I have a G2 and will be sticking with VR. It definitely needed a hardware upgrade to get to a point where I'm getting what I consider acceptable framerates at high resolutions. The recent AMD FSR also helps a lot. Setting this up is as simple as dropping a DLL into the IL-2 folder, slightly editing a config file and suddenly seeing much improved FPS. I can certainly understand the points about not being able to see the keyboard and having to change your physical setup. I ended up with a USB button box, the joystick/throttle and a trackball mounted to a chair so that everything I need is within arms reach while playing in VR. The headset cable is mounted over my head on the ceiling and retracts while not in use. To play in VR I just need to pull it down from the ceiling, rotate the joystick mounts round to the front of the chair and plug in pedals. That's all fine for me, but I appreciate this is all quite an investment of time and effort. All in all, I can deal with this stuff and I'll be staying with it. I do make a few youtube videos and have done some IL-2 videos in VR, but I'm not putting them out at the kind of rate you do. I think the main showstopper for you is how much more time consuming it is to make decent videos from flights done in VR. That's a fair enough point, right now it will take more time and be more complex, and I don't think there's any decent way to mitigate that with current technology. For an average player who's ok with a certain level of setup VR is fine, but everyone needs to decide for themselves. For content creators it will mean more work.

[@SheriffsSimShack]

Oh a sensible and well thought out comment feels good today :)

[@panicraptor2837]

IL2 is the worst of all VR flight sims in terms of frame rate, compability and implementation. I would recommend starting VR with an easier to setup flight sim.

[@Asgar1205]

@@panicraptor2837 that's a funny joke

[@hazed1009]

@@Asgar1205 lol exactly what I thought NOT PLAY IL2??? ARE YOU ccrraaayzzzeee ??? 😝

[@hazed1009]

Thanks for posting you guys are all being very cool to share your real experiences and not try to hide them behind "oh it's the best thing I've ever bought" Too many people these days won't admit when they've been caught out or suffer after a big outlay. It's as if admiting a problem is admitting some sort of stupidity or ignorance yet it should be perfectly understandable. No one is clairvoyant. We all buy pretty much blind. Hoping for a great result. I make it a point to tell people the bad points of my purchases FIRST. THEN I point out the best bits. I think it makes you a more honest reviewer of products.and a more helpful reviewer.

[@TeaRexChannel]

The points on FPS and increased time investment are very true. When I switched to VR everything required a lot more effort, and not just getting the graphics looking "okay". Setting up for a VR session takes time as it is, and then you've got to make sure everything is working perfectly before you can even think about recording. For me I will always stick with VR. But I will also say that I miss the high fidelity of head tracking, and the ease of use. Hopefully in the future things will even out and VR will have less of the drawbacks.

[@terryteed1903]

Hey Tea, I agree, but I think it's hmd related. I run the rift s and use the oculus tray tool and it make everything so simple. Once set up, it's a matter of putting the headset on and the tool starts on it's own and cuts out half the guff that takes up precious gpu and cpu usage. I need to speak to you about my Warthuder settings too.

[@TeaRexChannel]

@@terryteed1903 haha I also use the Rift S. But I still find its a pain setting up my games for VR after using them for flatscreen stuff (particularly WT as I play tanks a lot). Also feel free to ask about graphics settings on our discord. Got a bunch of rift users there :)

[@terryteed1903]

@@TeaRexChannel I don't think I'm on your discord bud.

[@acepreussen14preussichaddl88]

and I play War Thunder SB in potato laptop using mouse and keyboards lol

[@terryteed1903]

@Scuba Trooper eh, no. Lol. Go get a job and Contribute to society.

[@toddgardner8099]

I stopped flight simming about ten years ago because I was just so tired of the 2D lack of immersion, and decided then to wait until VR was feasible. I totally agree with everything that you explained (except that I do not record yet, so ...). I also use the G2, and it took an extraordinarily long time to research how to get the most from the headset. Since I do not record, I am on the VR side of the equation, and I am back into flight simming again and really enjoying it. I am looking forward to the day when the VR visuals are as great as the visuals in your videos.

[@thurbine2411]

What gpu do you use and around what FPS do you usually get in multiplayer at the in game settings you use?

[@StoneCoolds]

Before that happens, PCs need to chatch up, they are behind VR needs for now Also befor buying any VR set, always google its user friendliness and compatibility with your sim, the reverb its known for being a pain to set up for any game lol

[@crazyvideogameman]

Actually there is a headet with eye level resolution! Even better than the G2 by a lot. Look up videos on the Varjo VR-3. Crazy headset, a look into the next 5 years of vr. Too bad right now its about 3 grand.

[@thurbine2411]

@@crazyvideogameman the only prices I can find are for around 50 000 SEK which is like 7 times more expensive than the g2. And there are no normal graphics cards which will use that resolution and get good performance

[@andrewjamez]

@@StoneCoolds I don't think pcs need to catch up. I think software development need a kick up the ass. 3 stacked software applications means massive potential for optimisation and culling of useless programs. If everyone agreed and worked together for an ultimate solution you would only need a single software solution.

[@SheriffsSimShack]

So VR friends I get it. You enjoy your VR. And I did too. But by saying that "my hardware is underpowered" and that I just have to buy GPU "XYZ" or HOTAS "ZWY" you have to see that you are more proving some of my points and you are not addressing my showstopper at all. The content creation. I can totally understand why you are fascinated by the tech, because I am still very much fascinated. Use your VR if you enjoy it. I am happy for you. This video is to tell people that it is not so easy. Playing in VR is no religion, no its a economic decision. Time and money go into it. And it can be truely a endless chase.

[@LucaBuzzoni]

You are right. VR or not, at the end is not a religion. You also should consider that you bought the most resource demanding headset on the market. Almost everything is underpowered with G2 (3090 appears to be fine).

[@Darrylx444]

@@LucaBuzzoni :-) Agreed, though.

[@marduk87]

@@Darrylx444 Theres this swedish or finnish VR(cant recall exactly the country of origin or the name) that you can buy only as a company that will make your 3090 shit itself in matter of seconds.

[@icecold9511]

Yes, but you focus appears to be on video content creation. People may not understand that your problems are related to that goal. If they just want to play, it gets a lot easier and you don't need a beast of a GPU for collecting video at the same time.

[@DFX2KX]

I will say this: one of the nicest features on the Quest 2 (being a standalone headset) is the ability for it to record it's own video. Considering what you had to put up with getting recordings off the G2, I'm reminded not to take for granted. That said, most of what I end up recording is all the ways I can't land on a carrier in VTOL.... (now that I think about it some more, I hope that this feature becomes standard in more headsets. It offloads a major frustration point/bottleneck for anyone making video, not just content creators)

[@3rdaxis649]

VR can be a pain in the ass to get going but once you do it's unlike anything you have ever experienced.

[@razoleg]

You got that right -- it's terrible.

[@vracan]

@@razoleg disagree

[@Enigma89]

04:30 this is one of the big reasons why I am not in VR. I like to be aware of my (IRL) surroundings and if my girlfriend walks in and asks a question, I can look over, respond and go back to playing without much fuss. Being strapped into the matrix and just secluding myself while living with someone just doesn't sit well with me. VR sounds awesome but it sounds like a headache. All of my VR friends can't stop talking about it but they seem to have constant issues with it. I just want to play games and not have to wrestle with hardware.

[@DanielDrake]

Should give it a go

[@Enigma89]

@@DanielDrake If I lived in a house and not a NYC apartment I would but with my living arrangement just doesn't make this functional.

[@Darrylx444]

It is tricky. I prop my headset ear pieces off-ear and use my PC 5.1 speaker system instead for game sounds. So then I just have Discord voice comms on the ear pieces usually. So I can still easily hear what's going on around me for family / house stuff. Also, bass shakers on my seat help to add immersion without noise.

[@ACG_Jaydog]

I understand where you are coming from. VR is more work, but its not a headache. Its a headache if you make it a headache. Immersion to me is more important than just simply playing a game. I want to feel like i'm there, in a war. When i'm flying, i dont want to see my dog licking his balls or cat licking its ass right next to me. If my fiancee talks to me, i just answer her without taking my goggles off. Shes knows the deal that i'm not going to look at her . TrackIR is good if you're ultra competitive, but it too has its challenges finding the right curves and also fails occasionally. Since I'm into the immersion, Trackir to me is unrealistic being able to see all angles, your six without effort. Turning your head 1 inch to sse 180 degrees behind me seems just bullshit now. It's gamey. I actually dont mind the struggle to see behind me, as real pilots had to strain too, albeit they had better FOV.

[@mojostevo]

This right here. I live in a ground floor condo with a lot of glass. I need to see what's going on and I need to hear what's going on with other people in my house. It's a matter of safety and situational awareness.

[@stahlwolle8342]

The thing you easily dont have in mind if you start to play in VR is what crazy amount of resolution your GPU has to render to do that barrel-correction and have a crisp image. They sell that VR-Headset and you think: Oh yeah - its 1800x2000 and then you realize: Oh, okay sure, its PER EYE. And after that you realize: "Okay i have to render that resolution by factor 1.5 to have a non-blurry image! so you end up at something around 3000x3000 PER EYE. To have 72 or even 90Hz running two of those big renderings you realy need a damn good GPU. Even with a todays highest-end gpu, the 4090 you will not run everything maxed out in vr and having no trouble at all - and we are far away from that point where a 4090 is something which many players can efford. VR in 2023 is still the high-end of gaming - amazing but the most expensive experience - but everything which is high end now will be mid-tier in some years.

[@theshazman]

G2 owner here and I feel the same. The fact I need to lower my graphics settings on a 3090/5950x setup is just not something I enjoyed. I will wait until hardware catches up to give it another shot.

[@crooker2]

Cockpit simulations (driving, flying, spaceship) ARE my best experiences in VR so far. I don't do a lot of multiplayer so the interactions aren't much of an issue for me. VR to stay for me.

[@MichelangeloDraconis]

Absolutely. I you can go further in your affirmation: Simulations ! When you have the power to create a new reality around you, everything you wish to simulate it will be wonders in VR !!! Going back to sad 2d flatscreen is going back 2 squares. He has other technical and performance issues as he mentions, it is much better to solve them.

[@RDxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

same, I can't go back to racing in 2D, and for IL2/DCS I can't miss the emersion VR gives me

[@rcpilot9963]

I started flying in Vr this year. In my opinion GPU's 4000 series like rtx 4080, Meta Quest 3 VR are finally good enough for IL2 VR.

[@billyjoe415]

Well i just started VR playing about a month ago, and I am very impressed with VR. It does feel so real and lifelike. I just dont have good enough words to describe VR, but it is AWESOME. I still struggle with seeing the cockpits and the small lettering on the HUDS etc. I just need to keep trying to adjust and tweek!

[@Darrylx444]

Sherrif, I believe you can disable motion reprojection on the G2 by editing a config file. You do have to opt into SteamVR first. Also, that will let you use OBS/OpenVR for recording your right eye instead.

[@maddabbo]

There is no need to edit a file, it's in steamvr there is a section at bottom for wmr settings and under there can disable projection can also turn of steamvr motion smoothing, but the wmr section overrides steam vr settings.

[@Talkinnerdy1]

Janky graphic even on high end gpu - $1000, Sweaty uncomfortable headset - $400, Keeping your eye on a bogey as you pull around on his tail - Priceless!

[@motoadveBackcountry182]

Vive Pro 2 looks amazing super immerssive , 3090 and an i9 10900K, high res graphics and an amazing experience, if it wasnt for VR I would not be flying IL2 or any sims, I was very bored with them, VR made me buy good quality controllers and its very immersive.

[@MichelangeloDraconis]

My man ! hahahha Exactly that I was stating in my comment to this video, he is going into the opposite direction, instead of complain it is better to solve the performance issues to enjoy VR awesomeness... Cheers!

[@adamtwite9941]

I put a fan directly on me during summer. Try that in a ww1 plane and you get some added immersion too! Also helps stop your vr lenses fogging up. I move my head directly next to fan when its getting foggy and it clears up instantly. Like turning the windscreen fans on in a car. Vr in IL2 takes so much work but god its good when its going. Definitely recommend finding a way to have shadows at least on low. It makes a big difference in the cockpit

[@pleasantlymixed5860]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who sits my fan near me when playing flight games.

[@deejayimm]

I just could not imagine being so wrapped up in wanting to be competitive at a freaking video game that I would pass on the opportunity for the enhanced experience of vr. Games are supposed to be fun, too many people take them way too seriously nowadays.

[@doomslayerforever2858]

Especially mobile gamea

[@LarsHofman]

I think people just want to be competitive with other people in something. It can be sports, it can be chess or whatever and so it can also be a game or Sim. It just gives satisfaction and excitement.

[@deejayimm]

@@LarsHofman I understand why people do it, but I don't understand why it's so goddamn important. Whether you won or lost will be totally irrelevant when you determine whether you had fun or not.

[@SheriffsSimShack]

To strive for competitiveness can be fun. I personally get my fun by improving my skills. For you some dogfights and the experience might suffice. And that's fine. But I strive to get better and to defeat my opponents. That's my fun. VR didn't hamper this as I layed out in the video.

[@deejayimm]

@@SheriffsSimShack sure, do what you want, but dont forget it's just a game. I saw a video the other day of a video game pilot versing a real life combat pilot and winning. That says it all. It's when people start blurring the lines between real life skills and video game skills that the competition starts to become problematic.

[@wudimusic]

going from rift to O+ to G2 i can´t fly flat anymore.. no immersion no depth.. only drinking coffee got hard

[@cshe92]

How is the difference between the Rift to the G2?

[@wudimusic]

@@cshe92 The G2 has a higher resolution (2160X2160 per eye) and is the most compfortable hmd i ever wore, together with the index.. also same speakers which sound as good as my 200€ Studio-Headphones. It´s also PC only, so not mobile like the Quest, but, has a very long (over 4 metres) cable.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

@@cshe92 It is absolutely massive if you mean the CV1 (which is 1080x1200 per eye).

[@peterfagan3587]

There are times when I really miss the fantastic 2D graphics I had with TrackIR on a 65 inch HD TV, playing DCS, but I simply can't go back to 2D after having experienced VR (Rift S and now HP Reverb G2). I would say that if you haven't yet tried VR and have a fairly limited budget then stick with the 2D, and resist the temptation to try a friend's VR headset. For what you'd pay for a decent headset and the graphics card to run it you could buy a really decent TV, if you don't already have one. And yes, I do mean a TV - not just a big monitor. Go with a 65 inch set (or better). Having to set up cables and a mobile table to play DCS in front of the TV was a bit of a hassle, but worth it in terms of the display. Ironically, it was because I was enjoying DCS so much playing on the huge screen - and playing so much - that I decided to try VR. It wasn't that I was unhappy with the 2D - I was just enjoying the game so much I wanted to give the VR a try. So, I've traded off the superior resolution for the hugely improved immersion. I can't now imagine doing inflight refuelling or landing a Harrier on the Tarawa in 2D - it would be just too flat. I'm eagerly waiting for the launch of the Apache, and that should be amazing in VR. Being "blind" does take some getting used to, but with a pair of Cougar MFDs and a Thrustmaster Warthog I very rarely need to touch the keyboard. And that "blindness" has it's benefits: when it's a cold, gloomy day in the real world I can fly in brilliant sunshine for a couple of hours!

[@MartinSchmuckVR]

No way back for me. I do fly in MSFS with a Reverb G2. I have nearly a high end PC but I still have performance issues though. Nevertheless I'll stick to VR. I now use a Honecomb Alpha yoke + Bravo throttle with Logitech rudder pedal and an extra trackball mouse. I really like this combination

[@philski24]

Finally! Someone agrees! I was thought to be insane for not enjoying the VR experience. Had a Reverb and just never was impressed- spent more time trying to get things to feel right, but to play smoothly... finally figured that wasting all that time was for nothing, and to just get back in and play!

[@gapper3]

I play IL2: S BoS with an OQ2, on an MSI GP 76 Leopard (RTX 3070 Laptop GPU). The resolution and details are not quite up there with a maxed out 2D image but I simply can't imagine playing this game at all on my 32-inch Samsung G5 monitor, nice as it is. Immersion is through the roof in VR. I also use an X-52Pro HOTAS and have almost everything mapped to its controls, so I don't really need much access to the keyboard while I play. Sure, it took me a few hours of tweaking to get an acceptable mix of graphics and performance but, for me at least, the sweet spot was pretty wide and I've never crashed the game once. I've since tweaked a bunch of settings, both in-game and on the computer, and the experience is even better. I accept that, for some hardcore players, VR is currently still no quite there but I would wager that it's more than good enough for the vast majority of people interested in this game.

[@PacMac123]

Thank you for making the VR real talk video. There's too many VR enthusiasts doing nothing but gushing about the tech to push the adoption, giving a misleading impression that VR is for everyone. It isn't.

[@DFX2KX]

I like VR, but it definitely has it's limits. A lot of that is people trying to go "No, things have improved since Cardboard".

[@currololo]

Yes, it is.

[@vinylrabbit7295]

Next weeks video....Why I went back to VR after I left VR.

[@hyena-chase2176]

VR imo needs at least a rtx3080 ,rx 6800xt and 12700k ,5800x and 32gb ram,anything under for a good pc vr game is trouble

[@CanadianSmoke]

"There is a tendency to throw hardware at the problem until hopefully the problem disappears...", isn't that the way... and at the same time it becomes more complex. This is a great bare bones, no holds barred review of VR, I'm just a casual player and do it for relaxation and fun... I think I'll pass on the aggravation of setting VR. Thank you for such an honest in depth analysis.

[@Pagalust23]

I needed a long , lovely evening to set up the VR glasses and my Logi56X + Logi Rudder. It`s not difficult but the HARDWARE is just expensive🤑

[@CanadianSmoke]

@@Pagalust23 I may give it a shot one of these days.

[@arbiter1er]

For me, it's fun every once in a while but I'd rather use a head tracker plus my 1440p 144hz screen

[@currololo]

Not even close to VR. I have used TrackIR for years but I stopped using it once a tried VR.

[@3rdaxis649]

Don't know if you have ever been in a similar type of aircraft in real life but the heat and sweat are very real, lol.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

Use a fan, makes a noticable difference. Also helps if motion sickness appears to be an issue :)

[@635_]

ok but is it really needed when playing? do you want to sweat when playing in vr? then go ahead close all windows turn on some sort of heating but some people dont enjoy sweating when playing a video game

[@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles]

Makes sense, the part about the extra setup time really hits home for me. I want to fire up the game and go into battle with minimal hassles. I don't have a lot of free time for sims.

[@icecold9511]

Proper vr gear is easy to use. Q2, not so much. And there are other things than flight sims to do. KZbin boneworks and Into the Radius

[@kylehendry1352]

With my setup my echo turns on my light houses and my headset is next to my pc takes as much time to launch the game as normal not everyone has the space to do as I have but it is possible. I have a Pimax not a G2 it uses steam vr which is pretty much plug and play

[@Silverhks]

I don't feel like there is that much extra setup. Another minute or two. The big time crunch appears to be on the video recording/editing side. Tripling your time load is just not acceptable. Fortunately for me I don't do videos...and everyone else ;)

[@andrejsmith]

Thanks for the video. I believe the problem you have is with a buggy system, not VR per se. I unpacked my Oculus Rift, registered as a user and started flying. No serious issues and the immersion is so profound that after 40 years of flight simming, I am finally simulating flight. Go Oculus and your problems may disappear though it could be that you simply don’t like wearing a helmet. As a long time motorcyclist and real world pilot I am already used to helmets. Anyway, thanks for the video - good to hear other experiences.

[@termitreter6545]

I heard that the G2 has sometimes problems because despite being a "native" wired headset, its a WMR device and requires some translation software. I got myself a Pico 4 and most things just work out of the box. That said, many of those problems are real. You just gotta accept that VR isnt just a replacement for normal screens, it doesnt do everything better. And it can take a lot of effort and finetuning to get working for some times.

[@pppppffffffmmmmmmmnn]

VR people are oddly tribal and seem to take it personally when someone has an opinion against it

[@KitPepper]

A fair assessment on all points, and considering your outstanding Video work a logical choice. For me, I agree on all points except the last one. I will not go back to flat screen.

[@crooker2]

Yup. I can never fly flat screen again. I fly oculus quest 2 over virtual desktop, and the integration is quite flawless for me.

[@lordofweed]

So where is the point of VR/3D if you have constant fos drops? Dont you get eye cancer because of that?

[@lordofweed]

@@crooker2 virtual desktop?

[@crooker2]

@@lordofweed yup. Virtual Desktop is third party software that allows you to connect an oculus quest to a PC wirelessly. Even though the oculus supports this natively with its 'AirLink' feature, I've always felt that Virtual Desktop was superior in performance.

[@sahhull]

Weird.. I've tried VR and went back to trackir. I won't touch VR again.

[@terjehelle]

Everyone are different. For me, VR is the only way, because I’m in it for the immersion. Button boxes makes me “able to see”. And I don’t create videos.

[@jamiesalmonsculpture8599]

For good high quality pcvr in flight sims, or any racing sim you need as much processing power as possible. I only use MSFS 2020, run a G2 with a pretty high spec custom built pc. 3080, the works. I get great fps, with high in game settings. The G2 runs really well. Clear and smooth.

[@jandersen6802]

Do you get vr sickness?

[@jamiesalmonsculpture8599]

@@jandersen6802 no

[@TheRaptorXX]

GREAT insight Herr Schneider! I love pieces like this and the pros and cons are very well laid out, so thanks!!

[@hazed1009]

I appreciate your openess and honesty here. Its a rare thing for anyone to spend so much getting things to work and to then admit its not perfect . I can't tell you how many times even friends have bought something and recommended them , you buy it , discover some huge flaw and they say "oh yeah it does do that!" And you're left wondering why on earth they didn't admit they might have made a purchasing error. Its amazing how many times I've experienced this. It seems VR in iL2 hass similar problems that can be deal breakers. I really appreciate you pointing some out. It helps me make a better decision. Now as for me , I'm not a youtuber so the video side wouldn't apply. I have many hours to spare to fly so I don't have your restrictions due to family etc . I love iL2 and flew for years with track ir but haven't flown for maybe 10 years now, it's been a while!! So if I was to go buy a PC . Add my oculus 2 VR I own already. I also own super fast 1TB/s cable Internet with 1mbs upload and a WiFi 6 capable router so potentially wireless link to VR [If not 1 wire to headset] (also a superb comfortable adjustable head mount that doesn't weigh over the cheeks and stays fairly cool) Would I be blown away and happy even with game crashes as the game stands today? I keep thinking I would be much much more blown away by iL2 VR than youtubers who have flown for last 5 or 6 years solidly and watched it slowly develop VR compatibility. It will , for me I'm sure seem a lot easier to get working as so many players have ironed out the kinks to get it working. I would have endless guides on how to do this too. So do I invest in a PC ? My situation is sooo different. I need only buy a decent PC and I could start tomorrow. What would be your honest recommendation. (Remember too , being highly competitive is also not an issue. I often flew me110 missions to bomb targets and fly as a rear gunner with a friend. I lived this just as much as fighter dogfights. I would also LOVE to try bombers. Would I be super happy in VR doing this in il2? I would love to hear your opinion and recommendation. Regards Hazed100

[@dilbertleadbetter8481]

VR is not all you think it is. I know a lot of flyers who gave up on it and went back to Track IR myself included. Its just not for everyone. I am more relaxed with Track IR

[@getsideways7257]

It's not a problem that people started adopting VR early, but when they assumed the aggressive stance over it - that is very much a problem. The majority of VR users absolutely refuse to admit the fact that the tech is not quite there yet, and that for many it's not worth the trouble - let alone the price. I do believe that at some point it will become very much usable, but that definitely won't happen in just a year or two. The "bucket on the head" solution is simply not acceptable, especially when the "bucket" has cords.

[@konaber8020]

@@getsideways7257 "The majority of VR users absolutely refuse to admit the fact that the tech is not quite there yet." And here is the problem: everyone has a different definition of "there" ;)

[@getsideways7257]

@@konaber8020 Not properly consumer-ready. I hope you won't argue that wearing relatively light and compact glasses/goggles while not being tethered to a PC is *much* more convenient than having a silly bucket on one's noggin while being drenched in sweat, tripping over something on the floor (hopefully not a cat) and pulling the darned PC off the table?

[@Stephengirty]

@@getsideways7257 people who say this (also a majority is a fallacy as you could not possible know that) has never used it.

[@getsideways7257]

@@Stephengirty As expected from a cult follower. I tried it, by the way, and fully agree with the author of the video. Don't take me wrong, VR is a great concept. Just needs better equipment.

[@EM-st8qz]

I have assembled and disassembled my FT seven times. I come back to VR every time. It's stronger than me :) My Rift S is not perfect but it is worth waiting for something really better.

[@markp2085]

I have mediated some of my VR issues. I purchased prescription lenses and I use voice attack for some of my commands. Playing some games in VR is a disadvantage, specifically Warthunder in tanks. On flat screen, you can easily see 360 degrees around you. In VR it can be nearly impossible to see who is shooting at you from your rear. For my flight sims, my next purchase will be to either make a button box or purchase one so I can remove the keyboard that I can not see. Yes there are some drawbacks using VR, but what I gain far outweighs those drawbacks.

[@gretsch_man1525]

It seems to me a lot of those problems described are directly related to the Reverb G2. I'm still flying with the Rift-S, which doesn't have a great resolution, but is giving me acceptable fps. I'm also quite surprised to see only IL-2 footage in that video, because unlike DCS, IL-2 runs rather well in VR, even on my rather moderate rig. Just saying VR is performing poorly is misleading IMO. Finding your sweat spot in DCS can indeed take quite some time and effort (it surely did for me). But from my own experience, IL-2 in VR runs rather well right out of the box. I also like to point out that with a good HOTAS setup and VoiceAttack, there is no need to see, let alone use, your keyboard. This is especially true for IL-2. But even with a complex sim like DCS, I don't really need my keyboard during play. Well, in the end everyone has to make his/her own decision. I'll stick with VR for sure.

[@daveg5857]

Yep. I'm in your boat. My rig might be a little more than moderate, with 2080ti. DCS + G2 = amazing experience. Took some time to get it dialed in, but the performance has improved a lot with 2.7, and later this year you have Vulcan implementation and multi-threading. It's already more than satisfactory and just getting better. I added a Jetpad and a Buttkicker Gamer 2 and now it's other level realism. I use Voice Attack, with the DCS plug in (I forget what it's called). To add another layer of immersion, I bought a Leap Motion controller - it's not fully supported yet, but should be pretty cool when it is.

[@St_Lounatic]

Sheriff idk if you'll ever read this but I highly suggest trying the open composite software for vr, it was super easy to install and made it so that I went from constant frame drops to steady 80-90 fps consistently and was even able to turn up the graphics it was a game changer for vr in this game for me

[@hazed1009]

Open composite. Is that the name of the software? as in to get it online just type that in and download it? Just want to be ready when I get my pc. I've written it down for future reference . Thank you

[@motlagh]

I put the game down about six months ago, after playing for a few months with VR. It's a rewarding and more immersive experience, but accommodating VR began to feel like work and would wear me out. I think it does make for a better flight experience in a vacuum, but it becomes less of a relaxing "game" experience over time. Maybe part of this is getting burned out by the constant tweaking of the various settings. At a certain point it feels like you are less of a mad scientist and instead you are attending to tasks.

[@Ferretsnarf]

I feel this all the time with IL-2. I honestly spend most of my mental effort tweaking all the settings and keybinds and graphics settings and on and on and on so that by the time I've got it "good enough", I'm just exhausted with the whole ordeal or even plain out of time for my "leisure" activity. This is compounded twofold with VR. It's incredible when it works and it is my preferred way to play, but I can easily see why someone would not want to mess with it in the first place. That said, IL-2 could really serve to make itself more "usable". The new keybind interface is great and all, but it feels like not enough. Still having to worry about hardware IDs and which port you're plugged into, Keybinds get these generic "Joy1 B23" that you can't do anything to say... alias the names of the buttons, little things like hovertext to help with gauge identification (as good as VR headsets are getting, it is still difficult to make out gauges), among other wish-list items. Ultimately it still feels like a game from 10 years ago, which it is to be fair, but with a continuous release roadmap they could be well served to modernize its interface and make our lives just a tiny bit easier. Hell, I'd probably pay for a full price module that contained nothing but UI improvements like the ones I described. (Don't tell them that though... or do if you want a chance that they'll actually try to improve it)

[@mememachine5244]

Totally agree, I have a top of the line PC + 3 head sets and yet I just cant make my self use any of them. The tech really just isn't there yet, and even when it gets there im not sure till be worth using over a high end monitor.

[@ZicajosProductions]

I think it’s different strokes for different folks and how you manage it. When I switched to VR I personally found it really hard to use a monitor for combat sims after that.

[@aapje]

I'm waiting for a future generation of video cards and perhaps headsets before I take the plunge. Hopefully the software will also improve.

[@man_vs_life]

Me too, exactly. Around Nov 2022 we can expect the nVidia 40 series. From what I've read it should be a bigger step forward than the 30 series over the 20 series and by then there should be a new iteration of VR, hopefully something approaching the field of view of the 200 degree Pimax 8KX with the clarity of the Reverb G2 or better and more towards plug 'n play with a reasonable price. Fingers crossed. :)

[@martinmccloskey4206]

@@man_vs_life ha ha man that heasdset is still about 5 years away...nice to dream thow

[@jeff-hd9og]

@@man_vs_life so u just want a cheap 8kx lol

[@aapje]

An update: I moved to VR with a 4070 and Quest 3.

[@SimmerCK]

I've been holding off VR and I probably still have a 5 year wait for the technology to be where I need it to be.

[@currololo]

I feel sorry for you. 5 years is a lot of time wasted playing in flat screen.

[@ericveschi4904]

From my own experience, I can't able go back to flat screen. I'm agree that you need to reduce graphics depending of your PC, but I find a sweet spot regarding to me between quality and FPS. I'm using OpenVR instead Steam VR for the rendering. I did my rig to avoid to touche touch the keyboard with flight sim. But when I'm driving a truck or a car, I can reach my keyboard easily. And I did some videos content, with a mix of VR and "2D" videos with using the recorder possibility from X-plane, to have outside views. But yes it takes more time. But I do it only for my pleasure, not to have money with it. But yes, the need of a big computer to have 4K or higher resolution is a step that not everyone is able to go. I tried a super sampling at 200% on DCS, my jaw felt as my FPS too. So it's not really an headset problem, but the PC problem. Because in native headset resolution, all is readable and sharp. I tried to go back to a flat screen, it was boring, regarding to me. I'm agree that FOV is poor, it's not perfect. But in 1994 I've tried the first VR headsets, it was cubic, with a very low resolution, that I can say, don't be too rude with the present VR. Even in 1994 immersion was impressive, even with the cubic 3D. And since this time I was waiting for VR headset for everyone. And 2020 did it. Next generations of PC and VR headsets will be better, but at the same time of we wait for the future, like in 1994, the future won't come, because in 1994, public hasn't see interest in VR. And now more we are in VR, more the market will go to it, and with better headsets. The future of VR is in our hands.

[@Stephengirty]

Cough cough voice attack solves the keybinding problem.

[@moltke1870]

I also just jumped into VR with Valve Index. I share your pro‘s and contras…. But I think I will stay in VR because the feeling sitting in a real plane. But it was necessary to expend my hardware with another button box to handle the cockpit blind. The lower graphics is the biggest bug I have to swallow in comparison with 2D on screen. Play VR is not the jackpot and not a cheap investment… But more longer I play in VR more I like it… Thanks for this video because It's also currently my topic.

[@madigorfkgoogle9349]

The Valve Index has low resolution and thats why is far away from 2D screen. In G2 and higher the resolution is very close to 1440p display for cockpit and 1080p for far distant landscape. Yes you need good graphics card RTX3080+

[@DoomOfConviction]

I bought a VR headset a year ago just to be blown away by the bad quality of the displays. I play mostly on 4K monitors where everything looks smooth but with a VR headset you can count pixels again… I just use the headset for beadsabre since, the most regretful shit I bought.

[@jeff-hd9og]

I agree, the g2 is the first vr headset over owned that actually has an image quality comparable to a monitor

[@patrickkelley6780]

Thanks Sherriff , yep I am going to stay with Track IR, it serves me well, and I can keep an eye on household stuff. Between grand kids and all the 'turmoil' they bring, Track IR is the way to go. I have a very good set up with the biggest Vid Card and fast i9 processor. With 3 wide screens monitors. I have considered the VR, but the advantages are not suited for me for now.

[@allantotti]

I agree with the setting it up issues. It is a huge pain in the ass. I spent countless hours to get it right but my passion drove me to that point. I am a big DCS fan and I fly in VR all the time. I can't stand 2D. I am also a father and don't have a huge amount of time to play but when I do, it is awesome. I spoke to my wife and kid about "daddy" time and they get it. Maybe you just need to communicate with them and they will understand. Obviously if there's something urgent I tell them to interrupt me. I am also a pilot IRL and having the option to pilot a fighter jet properly at home is priceless. The technology is getting better and we're catching up. An RTX 3070 is respectable but not the best for VR. A RTX 2080ti would be superior due to the speed of the GDDR5x memory. My DCS was working great with my 2080ti and now with a 3080 it is incredible. Also, some of the most popular sims are switching to the Vulkan engine (DCS is close to releasing theirs). Vulkan is lighter and works beautifully with VR. In X-Plane 11 is literally doubled my FPS, and that was on a GTX 1080 (it went from 35 to 70). I Own 3 sets of VR and the HP Reverb G2 is the best on the market right now.

[@platiusmango7075]

I was considering investing in VR, but your point about being blind and not being able to see your keyboard etc.. really made me change my mind. I'm still struggling to see around me during flight though. I have the cockpit view movement set to just use mouse movement, but am considering changing that to the POV on my joystick.. Here's hoping.

[@KyleP133]

All are very valid complaints. It really does seem like the Reverb G2 is particularly difficult to optimize due to its resolution. Everyone I know that has one says it works great but they all struggle with performance. My Odyssey Plus is nowhere near as clear, but the graphics look pretty good with reasonable settings. It's still worth it to me, though.

[@l0rdcroissant]

all I needed to know without the fluff of confusion that some leaves us in the end... love how you end it too lol, priceless I have always wondered if it's awkward with having the eyes always forward while moving the end like some videos I've seen and answer seems to be.... no

[@Radar23]

decent monitor and head tracker and I'll shot your done any day of the airwar! Nice video

[@vracan]

yes vr technology still not perfect but still beats the hell out of 2D flatworld

[@Obi-Chan-Jabroni]

I bought a quest 2 for squadrons, tried war thunder now I play DCS and il2 and own a full virpil setup, and now a full blown aviation enthusiast. Nothing compares to vr, the performance cost is so worth it. The startup process I don't really get, for my quest 2 it takes like 20 seconds and 2 buttons with air link. I go cableless until it starts to get low then I plug in so it stays charged. Using Oculus link via cable won't keep it charged or charge it.

[@Obi-Chan-Jabroni]

Also I refuse to ever use track ir, what a shitty lazy technology that could be easily out done by any modern engineer, and ir projection. Also using the thumbsticks on the virpil stuff for headview is awkward. Vr makes tracking natural and much easier. Dogfighting for me in 2d is hard and awkward due to me learning in VR.

[@DFX2KX]

@@Obi-Chan-Jabroni Shitty lazy Tech? You do know that the CV1 uses the same tracking method as Track IR, right? Also movie motion capture. That inspired IR projection/scatter field like the Kinect, which then gave us SLAM (what the Quest headsets use). Also Vive/Index base stations camp off the same basic idea, just using lasers. My open source Freetrack system tracked about as well as my Q2 does, albeit slightly more picky about lighting because the IR filter was made from floppy disc.

[@OldManGaming69]

VR is a daily stress inducer. Constant software crashes, hardware not detected and to be honest I run out of steam 80% of the time and just put it back in the corner to gather dust.

[@larue085]

Don’t increase your voltage on your cores. I just figured out how to stop my HP G2 blue screen especially in the Steam VR with DCS. Just over clock the GPU and maybe the resizable bar in the BIOS and core speeeds. Maybe lower the voltage below default. My VR is unbelievable now with everything in Ultra settings for DCS and FS2020

[@thorrior1786]

I own an Occulus Rift CV1 and a Valve Index. Personally I'm done with VR now. I get motion sick pretty quick and I really don't have the motivation to work against it. For me it's just too much. But I have to admit that playing a flight sim in VR for the first time was really impressive. The immersion of being in the cockpit is second to none. But in the end, I'm going to stick with 2D and TrackIR because it's so much more convenient. Maybe in a view years we'll have better VR headsets that are wirless and much smaller than the current ones. Then I'll might give it another try.

[@-Zevin-]

This makes me feel allot better about being poor, I can't afford VR and really felt I was missing out. I really still hope to try it one day, but it sounds like the tech still needs some time to mature. Even so, 10 years from now I can see VR being incredible. I don't know if it will be 10 years or 20, but one day it will be possible to have 8k resolution per eye in VR with 120fps stable, That is going to be a game changer for flight sims.

[@APsYleX]

You are missing out bro

[@-Zevin-]

@@APsYleX Yeah I know, but I just can't afford a headset and the upgrades to my PC that would make games like IL2 reasonable playable in VR. As of now I have a last gen I5 and Rx580 which is a pretty low end PC, but I can still manage to play pretty much any game out there with reasonable FPS. Actually the 580 is really great for the price, I'm mostly CPU bottlenecked.

[@cmdr.shurimal8980]

Exactly. Until a 300, 400€ max midrange GPU can run a 1440p headset that costs 300, 400€ max, at 90 FPS VR's just a toy for well-off people in rich countries. And forget Oculus, since they sold out to Suckerberg and require that facebook crap to use their products, I don't care how much bang for buck the Quest is - it's a no-go on principle. Frankly, I'd rather spend 500€ on a high quality stick or throttle than a mediocre VR set.

[@jeff-hd9og]

@@cmdr.shurimal8980 I got a 1080 ti for 200 dollars last year that can run my g2 fine so idk what ur smoking

[@nedo68]

only VR for me, any flightsim, MSFS or IL-2, and i dont use reprojection at all, Valve Index User.

[@Garmin219]

You have spent so much money and time you should stick with it, I won't go back never had crashes with my G1, I believe the main issues are to do with how the software handles the VRAM Seems to max out the vram this is the case with DCS which slow downs the frames

[@HamvonBoom]

The Varjo XR-3 appears to solve many of these problems with its Mixed Reality capability. But it would require a player to green screen the entire play area except for the things he wants to see - stick, throttle, keyboard, etc. And they would need to be placed in specific areas that wouldn't block view of cockpit gauges or windscreen. It also has proprietary recording software that record both eye lenses, and of course the resolution is 4K quality. While Varjo has optimized its products for DCS, there is apparently no such synergy with IL-2, and the one example I know of a player using a VR-3 with the game resulted in him returning the headset. Then there's the price, around $7K, with a $1200 annual support fee.

[@paulsaunders6536]

Just swapped my Rift S for a G2. I have an i710700k and an RTX 3080. It has taken along time to get things running acceptably. I have in game settings on ultra, general steam VR on 100% and sim specific at 70%, motion smoothing on. So what do I get, a steady 45 FPS. Average is not much higher than that. 90FPS would only be feasible at much lower graphical settings. Some good points, I’m going through that journey at the moment. Time isn’t an issue for me. Really enjoying the immersive environment, played much more with the G2 than I ever did with the rift.

[@WhereNerdyisCool]

The big problem right now is the video cards can't push those headsets to their limits. We're having to tweak the video card settings to what we can live with. Hopefully more powerful cards will make the VR headset experience a lot better. Only the RTX 3090 seems to drive these headsets well, but even they have shortfalls from what my friends share. I have a 3070 that's endlessly out of video memory on my HP Reverb 1. Multiplayer adds a lot of trouble too, which is all i do! Also, if the game took advantage of the multicore processors we have these days, it would also be a nice boost.

[@Stenhunden]

I've been a VR user since OG vive, currently using a Samsung Odyssey+. I agree so much on all your points, especially the time aspect, it does take a lot of time and energy but even if i only get one good, problem free session in a month, it's all worth it IMO. VR is the ultimate escapism.

[@DriftaholiC]

You can get corrective lenses for the goggles. In OBS I was able to stream VR using the right eye. I'm sure you could record it as well.

[@SheriffsSimShack]

Looks crap, bad recording FPS

[@BatLunette]

Thankfully in late 2022 tuning IL-2 to work in VR is a 5 minutes deal. There are some must-have settings and pretty universal, you can find them on newest KZbin guides. OpenXR eliminates any issues with bad framerate SteamVR provides, has great CAS supersampling, and OpenXR's Turbo mode provides good performance. I have 60-70 fps with ultra settings on my RTX2070S with some minor things toned down, and setup.cfg tweaked. Graphical updates of the last patches solved graphical issues in VR for me. As for the blindness, I use 3rd party mask for Reverb G2 for wider FOV and nose cover not installed. The light leakage is really minimal and I peek at my keyboard and my partner very easily. This doesn't annoy me because my brain can ignore the small piece of real life being visible under my nose the same way my brain ignores my nose. This changed my view of VR because I intended to get rid of VR for very same reasons, but now those issues are solved. SteamVR is indeed very unstable, but OpenXR and OpenComposite eliminate the need to even touch this cursed software and connects to WMR directly.

[@Lembo101]

If I want to play online in a semi-competitive way I'd definitely strongly consider 3 screens and track-IR, without visual aids spotting planes beyond 1 km is almost impossible, as is trying to distinguish plane silhouettes. I really like the immersive aspect of the fog of war and the need to perform friend or foe identification. I don't think in WW2 that pilots were struggling as hard as a VR player to see anything. However, for mostly casual co-op and single player I just enable the blue and red triangle indicators. I think there is room for the game devs address this issue with a VR visual aid that's better than grey smudges but less "cheatey" than the triangle pips.

[@emmata98]

4:28 though there are augmented reality things in some VR-headsets, that allow you to see "through" the headset (via camera)

[@jasonf2252]

I feel that VR will only get better with time, but for myself, the needed hardware arms race (and lack of widespread availability now), the constant fiddling and teething issues have me on hold... for now. Meanwhile, see the comments for a clinic on choice supportive bias. Find the security within yourself to buy what works for you, and enjoy it, without feeling the need to insist everyone else does the same perhaps.

[@icantfindausername13]

This is exactly why I don't strictly recommend VR flight sims to anyone unless they already have the hardware. Barrier for entry is already fairly high requiring a joystick/throttle and to a lesser extent a rudder if you're primarily playing WW2 sims with older aircraft. Not even mentioning the amount of time you'll spend actually playing it just learning how to operate the aircraft competently. On top of that, even on a 3080, 5900x, 32GB RAM, and on an m.2 drive, it still requires some tinkering to find the balance between performance and fidelity, particularly in DCS. It's incredibly rewarding once you get it working, and it's gotten better (especially with the tray tool on the quest 2) but if I hadn't already had a near top-of-the-line rig and all the other peripherals I needed from years of flight sims, I wouldn't have jumped into it.

[@man_vs_life]

A really good "podcast". I'm holding off until the nVidia 40 series and whatever improved iteration of VR is present at the time. Just another 14 months with bit of luck.

[@gradocchio]

It's now been 1 year since this video, since then we have the G2 v2 and OpenXR\OpenCompsite. Did you upgrade to the newer cable with power switch? I see several fairly easy and inexpensive solutions (no idea on the video edit). First would be to send your glasses prescription to VR Optician for prescription lenses that snap over the HP lens to eliminate wearing your glasses inside the headset. Second would be to Install and use OpenXR for better framerates and visual quality. Third, once OpenXR is running well install XRNS (OpenXR Neck Safer) which you can use to augment getting to your "6" view similar to TIR or use it to add "Snap views" to VR. Last but not least, a good strong desktop fan to keep you and your headset a lot cooler!

[@stankfaust814]

The time commitment to futzing with VR is about the same as actual flight time. But I bought IL2 because of its VR capability. I simply wanted the immersion. And that cant be touched without VR I've been using VR of some type for about 6 months and it's definitely a love hate thing. Your points on any component of the stack failing bringing the whole thing down rings very true (I have the reverb G2 as well). I dont have a monster machine but it's not a slouch and it's still a lot of time overhead to get everything back to where you're flying again.

[@JorisKoolen]

Getting a bit older and now sharing my house with a partner, flightsimming became a bit too much of a hassle in general, not just the VR but setting up the pedals and throttle and stick (which I just used to have in place permanently). Now that I have a new powerful PC, and we both enjoy VR games, The VR goggles are permanently connected and it's finally worth it to have just a joystick hidden away on a shelf behind the PC, also ready to to go. I almost completely stopped playing Il2, though, and you'll mostly find me in MSFS. The casual flying suits me better nowadays, and with a joystick being my only controller I benefit greatly from the clickable cockpits. Also, running MSFS graphics in VR on nearly all cylinders, sometimes reaching uncanny valley levels of fidelity, IL2 really feels like a big step back.

[@Taipan303]

Thanks for sharing, I also threw alot of hardware at VR to make it enjoyable. I ended up getting VR working well, but alot of times still prefer the beautiful flat screen view and not being blind.. I still use VR sometimes in IL2, but never in DCS.

[@mollyscullyscully80]

What VR headset and system did you have? Im on the Occulus Rift S with a 980ti. I can spot planes with difficulty against the ground but once spotted it's even harder to ID them because of the resolution and sometimes low FPS. I plan to upgrade my rig and VR headset to finally be able to not be a blind bat in MP

[@matthewlake182]

I definitely could never go back to using 2D monitor for flight sims like DCS World. I know it is a bit more clunky right now and things take a bit more effort, but it's not too bad. Fortunately, I don't have issues with overheating and stay pretty cool. Probably because I barely sweat and have a very low body temperature lol. :) You can change the recording to the right eye btw.

[@andrewrymell1]

Now I have played this in VR, I couldn't go back. I just find it so immersive and so much more fun. The only issue is identifying enemy aircraft, so I do have a mod running that gives the ID spot above the enemy/friendly aircraft, but it is tiny compared to the standard ID. That said, I don't play on a server, so ID'ing aircraft isn't a big issue if it takes a few seconds longer. My only grip is I find the sound can stutter sometimes and I hate the 10 minutes it can take for my headset to connect to the PC, but it is worth these few issues. I also play stick/throttle, so apart from using the mouse to click through the menu screens, I only use the keyboard to pause or show the map.

[@TheAussieRod]

I totally agree with you pov. I don't fly, I drive. So, aside from the in-game chat, I have minor limitations for specially assign keys (for which I am making a diy panel with a bunch of buttons). The temperature and sweatiness of VR headset is not a problem since I use Sim Hub to control my fans according to speed. But then again, I have to have a lot of apps open to fine tune everything. But truth be told: once you try the Pimax 8k, nothing on the market seems to be mildly good enough. So for me there's no other way then keep pushing forward in the hope that one day all the inconveniences of VR will be solved

[@KhanGirey]

For me, the longest time spent setting up is with the physical flight controls. I don't have a dedicated flight sim PC, so I have to clamp down my flight stick, place my pedals and throttle, and plug everything in. It takes me around 2 minutes to do this. The setup times definitely increase the more money your sim equipment costs. I don't fly on the G2, I have an Index, but my friends who have the Reverb crash a lot too. I think it is a headset related problem, and not one that has to do with VR. I don't think I've ever hard crashed in VR.

[@spitefulwar]

I am so happy about this video. I was gonna use my christmas bonus on a VR headset as a way to get back into IL2 and DCS... even trackir now sounds like a budget investment. Thank you so much!

[@SheriffsSimShack]

Well Vr can be great. In the right circumstances.

[@DanielDrake]

I admire your logical breakdown of the matter, it’s not that VR is bad, it just doesn’t offer the features and ease of use you are after, I hope with better technology and insane recording features getting better, you might come back

[@GYGOtv]

All VERY valid points. I'm just getting into IL2 now and agree (and have experienced) many of the issues you mention. I find I move my head A LOT without realizing it and you can certainly see that in my footage. I'm going to try some of the stabilizing techniques you mentioned and see if that helps. I can tell you that I have a 3080ti and it seems to run the game pretty well on the Reverb G2 so I think you are almost where you want to be computer performance wise. For me, I can't give up VR I just love feeling like I'm in the plane. Anyway LOVE your content, keep up the great work and thanks for all the hours you put into making all these videos for us.

[@wimwilms1424]

I made the same experience some years ago with Occulus Rift, so I sent it back. I thought now would be the time, to try it again. You saved me a lot of hussle, time and money. Thus I have to thank You so much.

[@montanazh]

I use my Rift S for IL-2 despite I have a Quest 2 too with a higher resolution and a beast of a PC with a 3090 and 5900X. With SS it looks kind of sharper than with the link cable and the framerate is much better, all settings on ultra. Iding planes is hard but i prefer to play in VR because it feels so realistic. For my point of view if you play in VR you have to built a cockpit with buttkicker, wind and specific controllers for a specific plane to get the full imersion. Since I use the authentikit spade grip and throttle quadrant for the RAF planes it feels so much more realistic. That way I don't want to see anything but the game and feel lika a real pilot as close as it's possible.

[@mollyscullyscully80]

Voice attack saved my VR ass in IL-2 and Elite Dangerous. IT IS SO USEFUL

[@carterscoconuts6224]

Whenever a game has a vr feature you really gotta read into it. Because if it’s somethings like DCS or IL-2; all they did was really remodel the inside of the cockpit and change some FOV and depth aspects of the graphics. This can be fun but the game was built for 2-D not 3-D which means the polygons you’re rendering are going to cause twice or quadruple the work load on your PC. Games like Subnautica and No Mans Sky work really well just because the devs remodeled the entire games graphics and turned down a lot of render scales while making the polygons have a lower but more meshed look in detail to trick the eye from far away. Programming the camera for a 2-D and 3-D game are just two completely different realms almost and if you try to make 2-D look 3-D and perform the same your only gonna be able to do it with games from 2010 or earlier. And even some games from than are still too highly detailed for the game engines and other tech we have today. GTA V still can’t even run max settings in a VR mode that has no motion control support without making your PC beg you to turn the settings down

[@keigezellig]

I have a G2 and i use it with MS FS2020 and yes it was quite some fiddling around with settings, but i have found optimal settings that makes it a very nice immersive experience (and no motion sickness, i am otherwise very sensitive to that, i tried Project Cars 2 which has a lot higher FPS and i got really sick 😂) Even the weather effects are so realistic, i once flew through thunderstorms and the lightning flashes were really scary.

[@mrbrad4637]

Nice.. what GPU do you have?

[@keigezellig]

@@mrbrad4637 RTX2080 Super

[@AlphaHeavyGamer]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I very much agree with you. I tried making video footage for DCS World in VR but it is way too high of a workload to convert, stabilize, edit, etc. There are no good options right now, outside of having a $6000 PC, to make content totally in VR. I do like playing in VR but even I have started looking for a good eye tracking solution. I also have the HP Reverb G2, stellar headset, but the demands of WMR, Steam VR and the game are just too much.

[@Prof2phys]

Hi Sherrif. Just wanted to tell you that I am ruffly in the same situation as you are except I did different choices that make me able to play VR. 1: I bought a dedicated chair with its stand for HOTAS (stick in between the legs and thrust on the left) 2: I Bought a 3090 (but 3080 would be the same ruffly) and a Ryzen 9 3900x with 3800Mhz ram. 3: I bought a Vive cosmos with a lower resolution (even if I render in 2300 something with super sample) 4: I spent over 1 month enduring crashes for the same reason u mentionned... and I still have once in a while... which is freakin annoying. But now I do have thx to point 1 2 and 3 a real gaming comfort and It takes barely ore time than Track IR to play with the VR... On the other hand, I fly regularly in pairs and my friend on his 27inch screen in 1080P sees aircraft before me. He also manages to do more things at a time because he does not have to turn back or even move his head to see the ennemies... so I disagree with you on this point I think it is a disadvantage to fly VR on this aspect... Te advantage being Distance and space positioning, as u mentionned. Conclusion: No VR does not make you fly better even with 3090 and Ryzen 9 but it does definately gives you another experience. With time (over 1 year), I think I have reach the point where I fly almost as well thant I was flying with Track IR. This tech for me is perfect match with sim but the crucial need is for Eye tracking inside the head mount so that 3070 and lower cards become able to render... Thx for sharing your experience. My last though is that you might have "not come back", if only you bought the chair and a good Hotas with enough buttons that u don't need the keyboard anymore (like Warthog)...

[@jcjammer8972]

When you mentioned the additional complications with video production at the time you were first using VR, I was concerned about the extra time eating into your “real life”. Sensible decision.

[@army2207]

This is why i took off the nose piece for my vive. It does let a bit of light in but im able to see my keyboard and drinks without taking my headset off, and its only noticeable when your looking straight down

[@simtime7591]

The major downfall with VR, which is great for short periods of time, i have 2 VR headsets. but long term its going to mess up your eyes, i started cutting back on my VR sessions when i noticed after a long session with VR, when i took the headset off, i had the screen door effect in my eyes (without the goggles on) My opticians told me, the nature of VR and how your eyes work, will eventually cause severe dry eyes and effect the retina. Its not something anyone talks about.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

True... you either have to learn to wet and blink your eyes more often consciously or if you're really noticing issues with that, apply some hydrating eye drops before going into a longer VR session (which flights usually are).

[@alpenjon]

The retina is all the way inside you eye - how would dry eyes affect the retina? Can it be that the opticians told you that the cornea would be damaged? That would make way more sense. Agree though that consciously frequent blinking and eyedrop usage is recommended.

[@phobos2077_]

Lol, my optician told me the opposite. VR is less harmful to the eye than monitor due to how VR optics place a focal point farther away from you (like 1 meter or so), so you get less eye strain in VR. For me the only problem is I need to use prescription glasses otherwise I get tired quickly. But I might solve this eventually with a prescription lenses for my next headset. Other than that - there's no physics phenomena that would strain your eyes in VR more than staring at the monitor all day...

[@chrismcbean3141]

Hi,I have MSFS 2020 that I fly in VR,won’t go back to 2D but I think that with my G2, RTX3070ti and i5 10400F the CPU is not able to process fast enough so if I try to run Ultra graphics the Headset gives up Thoughts

[@FinsaneLorist]

#1 apart from few tipped beers, normally when playing at least I have no trouble at all pushing all the needed keys in DCS or IL. But I do have been using keyboard since 1986

[@BlackMatt2k]

Disable reprojection, get a headset for comms, and a HOTAS with enough buttons that you never need the kb and mouse.

[@icecold9511]

Voice command software too. Works great in DCS.

[@PlasticTonkaToy]

You nailed *every* thing I hated about VR. I have a nasa computer, but VR pushes the flight sims as hard as it can go. Using a steam index and following every guide out there, the immersion is amazing but the difficulty in figuring out who is who and fighting with low graphics to obtain decent FPS and Frame time is insane. I went to VR and back to 2D for DCS and will probably do the same for IL2

[@DBSTH0R]

Very nice explanation. As an (ocassional) YT content creator and also a parent myself, I totally relate. Even though many of my squad mates continue and try talking me into the VR. :) PS: I presume the video shows online combat, if so - do you happen to know which group of Pe-2s did you engage at 5:05?

[@SheriffsSimShack]

i cant remember that anymore. that was a old VR video of mine.

[@DBSTH0R]

@@SheriffsSimShack Is it perhaps featured in some other video of yours? My group (DBS) flies such close formation so I was wondering whether we were featured here. :)

[@Heldermaior]

I understand your frustrations. I think part of the problem is using a WMR headset. I used a CV1, then a Samsung, then a Pimax and am now back on the CV1. The resolution is worse and the screendoor effect is real but the lower resolution allows me to have shadows in my cockpit among fairly high graphical options AND, I just need to run Oculus app or Steam VR. I don't really faf about as much as you did with it and my experience is... well, I prefer the screendoor effect and the sense of depth to a flat image on a screen. But that is just me.