Why I went with a Microsquirt on my LS vs. GM ecu

Instagram: westcoastwrenchin
Lots of people have asked me why you'd use a micro over the factory GM ecu, so here is my reasoning! I've overlaid the audio on some footage of me building a microsquirt harness so you have something interesting to look at while I babble on, enjoy!

[@BrockJaden]

Well, technically, now you can get a second microsquirt and control a transmission and it will integrate with the other microsquirt via canbus...

[@donovanlucibello379]

Very succinct & well thought out video - wish more videos were formatted this way. Well done

[@RealGenX]

99% of people do not know enough to use sequential property and could not tell the difference between batch fire and sequential. Also I don’t think any fuel economy is lost. Great video

[@jwright650]

Getting ready to install a MS3 on my TPI in my 70 camaro, so this video came along at a good time.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

jwright650 ms3 are so sweet! Have fun

[@sirseanisrobinson1515]

Thanks for making this Video, I'm thinking about using a stand alone MegaSquirt ecu on a Mercedes motor M104 engine 3.2L out of a E320 for my Mercedes 190E . And this ecu is affordable. Thanks again

[@metalbob3335]

Note not familiar with vortec swaps let alone GM engines.... I was worried about batch fire , and was assuming I had to give up into a carb setup for my first build and lose its power output of the engine series vortec can produce. Thank you for the information! You give a guy hope.

[@jvh22a]

Thanks for this. looking to swap 5.3l and want to use the micosquirt

[@ChevyConQueso]

I like your perspective on this, and stumbled across it while doing some MS research myself. I dipped into tuning when I took my old F-250 and replaced the carburetor on the 460 with one of the most stupid simple EFI systems- a 454 TBI, using a '7747 ECM and a Moate's Ostrich emulator. People then asked me why the glorified electric carburetor? Why not something more modern? My reasoning was price, that I desired simplicity on an offroad vehicle, and that my carburetor would flood like crazy any time I tackled a hill climb or obstacle. I needed something that could run at angles and be reliable. These more simplified systems have their place and can function well for years to come, and I'm on about the 12 year mark I believe with mine. Now I'm looking to upgrade, and Megasquirt has options that can be used on just about anything with pistons and spark plugs. Batch fire is not nearly the lack of efficiency many people claim it to be, although you are correct, it certainly isn't the same., They often like to compare an older, simpler EFI system with a much more modern one, citing the batch fire as being the culprit. If low speed efficiency is your thing, then perhaps SEFI is the way to go, but for making power with an already larger displacement engine, batch fire will do just fine and you won't really miss much. It doesn't matter over 2,000 rpms or so anyway, as everything is moving fast enough that the delay doesn't make much difference. The greater design plays a much bigger part here than just the fraction of a second that the fuel is sprayed in. I tell folks all the time if it's a hotrod that you're going to hoon around mostly, you'll be fine with a batch fire system, or one of the modern TBI systems like a Sniper or Atomic EFI. It will absolutely deliver modern turn key driveability. If you're concerned with fuel economy, then open your wallet for a more advanced system, run a stock computer, or get a Toyota Camry. It makes absolutely zero sense to me that so many people will dump a decently built SBC with aftermarket heads, and spend thousands on an LS swap in a classic car that gets hotrodded around and driven less than 3,000 miles per year- then cite fuel efficiency as their #1 reason. I couldn't care less as long as it's got decent volumetric efficiency and using most of the fuel to make the horsepower I want to have fun with. I would never make my money back on the fuel savings to make up for so little driving in that situation.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Thanks! I appreciate the kind words and totally agree with you. I find that a lot of people get hung up and don't really think about the benefits of making something better vs. Making it perfect. I have learned with custom cars that it will NEVER be perfect and no matter how fast, polished or rare it could always be better. In that sense i have always preferred the bang for buck mods and not top of the line anything

[@limabravo6065]

Batch fire was how multiport efi like the TPI and early LT1’s all ran before sequential systems came about

[@jayinmi3706]

With LS Droid and Tuner Pro, you can tune your GM PCM for free, tho that was probably not the case when this video was made. This is still good info, and I'm considering a Microsquirt for my Neon.

[@stoneshrink]

Thank you.... I've been puzzling over this for 6 months

[@michaelballone4652]

yo, I thought it was just me. I'm not going full standalone on my 05 accord, I'm gonna have the Microsquirt control just the fuel for now and if I get that right then attempt Ignition control as well..

[@docfischer7291]

What some people do not seem to fathom is that after approximately 4000 rpm your “multi port” system is running at such a fast rate it basically turns into a batch fire anyhow. The best thing about batchfire is that your fuel that is basically sent to a “prechamber” is allowed to percolate and gas out, at that point you are not relying on the fuel as a fluid to burn , gasses burn a lot , a hell of a lot , faster than liquids to ignite. Micro squirt is basically what we also had for many years, the Ford EEC systems. EEC iv is what we have used for years to build custom systems , with or without speed density. Good video. Now onto fuel maps ! That is what scares people.

[@TheOhsemix]

That’s actually one of the easiest parts. You set your AFR table. Than drive around and let auto tune get a rough table going. Than slowly get into higher and higher loads and tune that. The hard part is timing map if you don’t have a way to monitor detonation you could add too much timing and blow up the engine. If you are too conservative you lose a lot of power and sometimes the engine won’t run right and could break something.

[@JesseWright68]

Lots of 4-cylinders use batch fire for the fuel injectors. It's not an issue.

[@rickstuck3729]

Is the ms2 the same wiring for the sptronic model sem102b?

[@beaupatterson1527]

Can I use the raspberry pi dash kit with the microsquirt

[@brodeesmith]

love the video.. any setup for MS2 V3.0 board.... batchfire wasted spark

[@rakerholm]

I am about to do a LQ4 in my second gen myself now and your videos is really helpful! Thanks. A couple of questions. You are using LS3 heads, right? 821 or 823? I saw they was milled 0,030, did you then needed to flycut the dished LQ4 pistons for valve clearences? Did you calculate your compression ratio? You are also talking about good fuel milage with your car; I am also going to use a 4 speed (actually a M22 in auto gear housing). What fuel milage did you get, and what was your rear end gear with that particular milage? Again. Thanks a lot for your videoes!

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Hi there, they were the l92 heads. Mild cam so no fly cutting required, they measured out fine (too long ago for me to remember the measurement).

[@jonathankyser5178]

I have a ford efi 300 inline 6 that I'm thinking of using the microsquirt on. It has automatic trans (E4od) aside from the microsquirt not running the trans, would this system work for me? I'm having trouble with the truck. I've changed sensors, the computer, even rebuilt everything. Used some original parts but everything has been taken apart and inspected. I'm thinking this would be a better system than the original stock. What is your opinion? If this can make my engine run, I will end up modifying it with bigger injectors and other stuff. As well as getting the trans control. Sorry for the long comment. 😅 really curious about this. Would appreciate your input. Thanks.

[@impactajuvenile]

Why not Speeduino for fuel injection?

[@NorthFraserFab]

Hey man I've seen a few of your videos and they're super informative, I was just wondering if you know anything about running a th350 behind a ls motor using the microsquirt system as they have no computers? I'm actually local to your area, the charcoal 81 firebird is mine, your car is friggin sweet and that's the direction I'd like to go with mine

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Thanks! Yup tons of people run a th350, a direct bolt up with the correct flexplate.

[@rdspeedfab]

Fantastic video with a lot of great info! I plan on using the microsquirt for my setup (Ford 302) But want to use the LS individual coils. I want to use a 36-1 crank trigger. I cannot find anyone that has done this. It seems to me that it would basically be what you have done but on a different engine. All the MS should care about is when to send fuel and spark according to the crank trigger. Any reason I cant make this work on my Ford engine? Thank you for your time and your content.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

I dont see any reason why not once you confirm that crank trigger will work! I'm thinking you'll go speed density?

[@rdspeedfab]

Westcoast Wrenchin' yes I’m going to run an LS 90mm throttle body.

[@idus]

Super sickkkk!!! Glad you made this video! Small government and diy tuning. Can’t get any better lol

[@randywilliams4325]

Next time I do a ls swap with a manual trans it’s getting Microsquirt. I pulled an ls6 from a Corvette with the harness and converted it for a 57 Chevy . Changed the cam while the motor was out and know I have to pay somebody with Hp Tuner or Efi live to even get to drive in the parking lot . I hate the licensing fee on that software but you can’t blame the guys that wrote it.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Yup I totally agree with you. People get hung up on the computer itself which is actually such a cheap thing to do with a micro. That being said If I had an auto I'd consider a gm comp.

[@jvan100]

At about 5:00 you get into a circuit to add outputs. Can you expand on that? There were a couple of words I couldn't get. I'm new to squirt but wondering what these added outputs can be used for? Also, how is the circuit coming along?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

jvan100 i was mentioning a project I have going to use an ebay arduino canbus shield to interact with the micro. You can buy a $60ish shield with software so you can just hook it up to your microsquirt and use it. Youre using the micros canbus abilities as sensor inputs for an arduino. The arduino can then trigger external outputs based on your micros sensor readings. The arduino will essentially just trigger a solid state relay to do something useful. Hope that makes sense!

[@jaredgollnik184]

Great video. It looks like an l92 intake? What are you using for the throttle bracket?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

That was two pieces of alum angle

[@hotrodAndy]

I have been messing with the can bus and Arduino, have you been able to get it to communicate? What setting are you using in tunerstudio to broadcast

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

I tried for a good month and couldn't figure it out, it's just beyond my programming level. I'd really need to go through and understand all the coding better to make it work but its tough

[@storminnorman1932]

At 3:08 you start talking over yourself. Nice vid tho !

[@Quincy618]

Will it work on gen 4

[@Phenx]

Could you talk more about reading canbus via arduino to control different i/o’s?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

I never got around to doing much. You set your micro in tuner studio to broadcast via canbus; it can even be simplified to broadcast engine variables. You then use your arduino connected to the can hi and can low wires to read those values. The values have to be read with a canbus shield. There are tons of shields out there, I'd buy one with a detailed tutorial on using them. After the arduino has the values you can do whatever youd like! I liked the idea of controlling relays via canbus or doing an LCD mini dash

[@DOOB509]

So i bought a 1988 chevy pickup with a 1999 5.3 with a single turbo has megasquirt gold box on it. had for two days been running great hop in it one morning to take for a spin and no start!! I have cam and crank signal but it loses engine rpm about the time it tries to start. Sometimes i get no engine rpm! shows no sync?? At a loss any help would be awesome

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Is it running full sequential? Try and run it batch fire see if that helps you

[@MrHaydenJr]

the arduino has 14 other input/outputs, have you considered using it as your trans controller, with some programming and it seeing rpm and throttle position over can, you should be able to program it to switch the shift solenoids as needed, just an idea

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Thats a cool idea! I have a manual trans but im sure lots of people would be interested!

[@mickgrimes9078]

ive noticed folks selling "ls only" microsquirt systems. with the coil drivers removed. would it be better to pick up one of those or just get a regular microsquirt?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

You should get the one specific to the ls if you want simplicity, elsewise there is some soldering and playing around required

[@Xtrmn8r123321]

If there is no transmission control with the microsquirt, could you use a manual valve body to control the transmission?

[@ChevyConQueso]

Depends on your transmission. Any old 3 speed? Yes. I'm a Ford guy so can't speak 100% for the GM transmissions, but they are pretty similar, and anything with electronic control uses solenoids to operate, unlike the older transmissions. There are standalone transmission controllers that will enable you to use one. In fact, you can even use a second Microsquirt to control one.

[@nos1000100]

Im using a microsquirt on my dodge dakota with the 318 but since its a 1994 truck. I cant use Flying Ryan Performance since there isnt a way to tune the OBD1 engines. I figured i can use the microsquirt to piggy back off the stock ecu where the stock ecu will supply the 12v power to the crank, coil, and injecters and the microsquirt will just ttigger them

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

I think you could make that work. Why not give the ms full control?

[@nos1000100]

@@WestcoastWrenchin im not 100% sure how the air conditioner is wired. Then on the mopar engines. The computer controls the alternator but theoretically i could just get an external regulator for that

[@David-lr2vi]

Most fuel injected cars used batch fire injection up until the mid 2000s. If it was good enough for cars from the factory back then it’s still good enough to use now.

[@kenwilson2133]

Great vids, thank you. I have a new LS made wiring harness, from the GM 0411 computer.( 1999-2002) Would like to move to MicroSquirt. Would you happen to have any information on which of the 0411 pinouts would be attached to the MicroSquiet modulw? Thanking u. Ken

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

That harness is only really required for the connector pigtails if you want to build a harness like mine. I have no idea how the GM pinout would transpose to the microsquirt harness. I took my GM harness and just cut the connector/pigtails off of it and went from there. Thanks

[@Kamwi_003]

lt1swap.com/wiringharness.htm

[@donaldhampton4695]

Hye Man, Great video! Im in the stage of my LS swapped Datsun project where I dont want the massive GM ECU or want to pay the $$$$ for the tuning. Would you by chance be in the SoCal area and willing to chat offline about this? I can pay you for your support / guidance. Thanks!

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Thanks, I'm In canada and wont be in California anytime soon unfortunately

[@Marc_Wolfe]

Ok Mr,SuperNerd. Can you use the Meagsquirt with a GM trans controller? Of course the answer is yes, but how.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

A single MS cant control the trans, you need to get a second one. About all you could do is get the signal when it goes into gear to bump the idle a little.

[@Marc_Wolfe]

Didn't answer the question.

[@e34boat88]

does ls iat sensor need 5volt?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

e34Boat nope sensor ground and iat wires only!

[@prestonbroome5570]

quality information; just got to work on your vid editing ;) lol great vid nonetheless

[@dmvchannel3280]

Great video! I am building an LS Miata and will soon be purchasing and ECU. It has been over a year since you posted this video and I was curious how you are liking the Microsquirt. Would you purchase it again or buy something like the Holley Terminator?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Thanks! If I kept my car NA I would keep the microsquirt for sure. My car is turbo now and I wish it had an output for an electronic boost control. It technically does but I'm using those outputs for my stepper iac. All in all it still works very well and it's so cheap! I've got the bluetooth adapter and shadow dash on my phone for all my gauges which is unreal

[@dmvchannel3280]

@@WestcoastWrenchin I am wanting to run a turbo as well. What management system do you think you will run in the future?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

@@dmvchannel3280 it all depends! I really like the ms3

[@dmvchannel3280]

@@WestcoastWrenchin Got it!

[@michaelballone4652]

anyone notice the lighter?

[@Dannymclovin]

What ever became of this did you keep it? Was it boost capable? Why did you replace it for a more expensive holley unit?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

I found the lack of inputs to be debilitating to the project, hence the shift to holley. In hindsight the holley is a far easier system to used and my preferred

[@Dannymclovin]

@@WestcoastWrenchin well that's unfortunate well I appreciate you replying thank you

[@morslinjames6927]

Hey I just got one for my 2jz jeep

[@racerd9669]

HP tuners will not self tune , Micro Squirt will. That is the beat reason to use Micro Squirt. And as a standalone it will control your trans also.

[@morslinjames6927]

Also need someone help setting it up

[@racerd9669]

I am surprised you did not mention the self tuning feature

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

It never worked very well for me to be honest

[@racerd9669]

@@WestcoastWrenchin I have a LNF turbo in my 86 Fiero with a MegaSquirt 3X and the self tuning works awesome. I have had engines in the Engine Masters Challenge with the 3X and have did most of the tuning on self tune. I had a 6 liter LS on the Dyno and we made 39 pulls in 4 hrs. Most of them on self tune. The problem with self tune is not the program it is learning how to use it.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

@@racerd9669 yea I didn't experiment with it too much. I run a holley dominator now and its self tuning capability is phenomenal!

[@garyweber7419]

or if you need to run the trans MEGASQUIRT

[@sirtnfol8476]

Wait, firing injectors like that sounds stupid. Id like to see a dyno comparison with this and a couple others.

[@ChevyConQueso]

It's pretty much how every OEM did it for years. Ford was one of the first to go full sequential, and started using SEFI with the 5.0 Mustangs back in 1988 (and all 4.6 modular vehicles), but all GM, Ford trucks, several Japanese makes, Chrysler etc. were all still utilizing batch fire. It didn't really die off until the late 90s as everyone else caught up with technology. You're really talking about fractions of a second difference between when the fuel is injected and the valve opens. It's not going to matter at all above a certain RPM, which could be as low as 2,000. If you're trying to make EPA ratings, it matters, if you're trying to make horsepower in your hotrod, it makes far less difference than most think.

[@BP021]

Microsquirt makes a transmission controller fot the 60e pr 80e for about 400 bucks and will tie in to the micro ecm

[@akinshok]

Its actually another Microsquirt (Transmission OS) and works well with the GoldBox MS3X too.

[@storminnorman1932]

Interesting how you wired the injectors.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

stormin norman why is that?

[@storminnorman1932]

The diagram on the screen. You don't wire one bank together and the other together. They cross over. Batch fire.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Ive got it firing two injectors on each rail at a time, are you suggesting firing a full rail at a time?

[@storminnorman1932]

That's a neat idea. Im not suggesting otherwise. Just interested in how you are doing it. You seem like smart guy.

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

stormin norman thanks! Im still learning lots! I just need some sunshine so I can drive the thing.

[@carlosreyes6448]

Is this a piggyback?

[@WestcoastWrenchin]

Nope, standalone

[@TheOhsemix]

And now you can buy LS plug and play micro for $600 with a new harness!!! Same for a good box for $1300.

[@guyforlogos]

Sequential fire is good, but unneeded. Power potential is a non issue, sequential doesn’t give you any more power, it does help with smoothness and better emissions. NOBODY building a hot rod is going to tune for emissions. The complexity of tuning a sequential over a batch fire is not really worth the trouble especially if your new to these types of swaps. Unless you have test gear to test each individual cylinders air-fuel ratios and therefore tune each injector individually, what’s the point?

[@Marc_Wolfe]

Heat is not the reason for waste spark and batch fire. Just no.