Why is Femininity SO hated? (Discussion)

[@boonAlina]

I added subtitles so if any part was hard to understand, there ya go 😊

[@lynxdani11]

thank you so much!

[@moncmaru]

holi :v

[@misfits9294]

Fun fact: in the ATLA comic Katara and the Pirate's Silver, they actually address this mindset! Katara feels self conscious for not being "as tough" as Toph. She ends up going on a side quest, but when she comes back to the gaang and she admits to her underlying feelings, they all go without a beat, "Bruh Katara you are the baddest bitch here" including Toph. None of the others saw her as weaker for her femininity, she was just as strong and badass as Toph was. It made me so happy.

[@serenitynow85]

Katara comes out as a badass because she usually is so caring, but when she has to fight she's an amazing master water bender

[@matheussanthiago9685]

She was the emotional backbone of a group of child-militia, that went on to take down the most powerful empire on earth when she herself was also a child That's no easy feat

[@zzodysseuszz]

She didn’t exactly earn that toughness tho. They just kinda give her it bc the creators are massive feminist.

[@rockmangurlx4973]

I didn’t appreciate Avatar enough when it was on

[@Kayta-Linda]

@@zzodysseuszz What does that even actually mean?

[@avej99]

This is why I love the magic girl genre. Its soo unapologetically girly from the outfits, the themes, the romance

[@fluffymelon733]

In my opinion another reason why these characters are hated is because of age of these shows public (I know, sounds weird). They're mostly for teenagers/kids and young adults in hazbin case and that's perfect age for hating your gender traits especially among girls. As you said feminine traits are well... Feminine! Mostly emotional and focused on others and surroundings. Emphaty sounds cool but young girls would rather like to be described as logical and strong because that makes them more unique. Kids don't see full walue of feminine traits and society don't emphasize them enough and we learn to love these traits by ourself much later.

[@marl3ymarl3y86]

That’s actually interesting because Aang’s (who is shown briefly at the beginning as having feminine traits) “feminine” traits can be interpreted as him being young and perhaps naive. I also wouldn’t say that Katara (out of all these shows atla is the only one I recognized) was super feminine, she was more so girlish. Characters I would describe as definitely more feminine would include Ty Lee and Yue, who are more adult-ified. Though OP had some good thoughts, I think people hating on the girl characters depends on the intersection of age and gender, because “womanly” characters have a sexual appeal making them viewed as “just eye candy”. There’s definitely a lot to be said on this topic, and I think it is more of a fandom thing than irl.

[@gailasprey7787]

I agree!

[@MA-ir8oc]

I’d say it’s less about feeling special and more about not being considered submission to another human just because of your birth. I’ve literally had guy friends tell me im inferior to them just because im a girl. Why would i want to be praised for being caring and kind if it’s coming from a group of people who think im serving my “role”? Often when the guys know you can actually challenge them, they respect you. We need to embrace both traits, honestly indont view emotions as feminine or masculine cause ive seen guys that are way more emotional than some girls. Honestly i think if we got rid of most religions this stuff would resolve itself. For example, the pygmy people thought of men and women as equals but they have very little lore and religion cause life was too hard to bother with that stuff. If a woman wanted to marry or a man want to marry a woman, he needed to offer a replacement for the woman that the family would be losing since she was considered a valuable member that helped keep the family going, the same as the men. Not too long ago, men in myanmar considered women lower than dogs. What intelligent young girl would purposely want to lower herself to be a pedestal for someone else to stand on? Until we can see where women are respected regardless of if theyre tough or if their compassionate, i think most girls are going to veer to a badass character just because there are so many times that theyre made to feel less than or weak compared to guys. I know too many kind women who allow themselves to be ran over by others, because it’s not “feminine” to express rage or dissatisfaction at being treated like crap and having your kindness being taken advantage of. Of course, this can apply to kind men as well, the system is toxic to them in a whole different way that i cant even imagine. They have to be able to take insults, not cry if they feel sad, and put up a strong but brittle armor all the time.

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@MA-ir8oc You might enjoy "My Farm by the Palace" on Tapas. The protagonist has overtly feminine traits that make her endearing and assertive at the same time. She's sweet and sensitive but doesn't undervalue her femininity. There's a chapter where she's holding she's instructing some high born women how to make dandelion wine, and when people started questioning why she would ask women of their status to do something like that her response is that they spend so much time dedicating themselves to others that they might forget how to treat themselves, "the most important person in the world." She's not a warrior, but she's not the type of person you can take advantage of so easily either.

[@ThePrincessCH]

There's a manhwa called "My Farm by the Palace" on Tapas, where the female protagonist is both empathetic and assertive. She's sweet and sensitive but doesn't undervalue her femininity. There's a chapter where she's holding she's instructing some high born women how to make dandelion wine, and when people started questioning why she would ask women of their status to do something like that her response is that they spend so much time dedicating themselves to others that they might forget how to treat themselves, "the most important person in the world." She's not a warrior, but she's not the type of person you can talk down to either. She acts a lot like how Disney's Cinderella did when they received the invitation to the ball.

[@forest2727]

I don't think its the femininity that's hated. Rosie from hazbin hotel is pretty feminine and she's loved. I believe that the real reason is that the female characters are usually very blunt and boring. They're usually just tropes and that happens even with more masculine women. Unlike the male characters, the females have no depth and sometimes, you look at a male character and think "this could have happened to a female character" but for some reason, it never does. They're always just following a trope with female characters.

[@forest2727]

Other characters are also Fluttershy and Rarity from mlp. Also the old babrie movies.

[@fuzzyfaz1987]

COMPLETELY agree with this! I think it's just the lack of character depth personally, and not so much the femininity itself.

[@MA-ir8oc]

Rosie is a perfect exmaple! She turns stereotypical gossipy lady into a place for others to vent. She gives advice from her experience and she does order people around, she unifies them. She knows when to make a stand and when to let her people decide. She runs a true democracy and rather than pushing her people to do things, she gives them the space for them to be free while keeping order. Others being able to vent to her and her making time to make them feel special, prevent more conflicts from occurring in the community. Sometimes people just need to feel cared for and heard and she does it perfectly.

[@boonAlina]

​@@forest2727 Yeah but all the main characters from MLP are girls, so of course they'd be loved to a degree.

[@forest2727]

@@boonAlina yes but the masculine mares aren't more adored than the feminine mares and there are a lot of male characters who are very powerful and important even though they are side characters. In fact, the most powerful being, after the tree/elements of friendship (which is more of a concept than a character), is Discord, a male. So I believe they are liked as characters, not because they have no competition with male protagonists.

[@swehumorofficial]

Reject any notion of femininity and masculinity. Embrace humanity. And above all, embrace yourself.

[@FzeroVaporeon]

This is facts if you think like this everything is just more fun

[@LaChicadelaMalta]

Femininity and masculinity are inherent to humanity

[@FzeroVaporeon]

@@LaChicadelaMalta what parts of it?

[@serenitynow85]

No

[@wonderwomanredson]

No. Femininity and masculinity are okay and necessary. Rather we should say: "reject female narcissism, reject male narcissism." "Embrace healthy masculinity, embrace healthy femininity"

[@alyssasamons1837]

Ive seen this problem on a personal level. As a femme lesbian I’ve met people think they can say who I am and try to press unflattering stereotypes out of hate. I love femininity and see it as beautiful and those thinking the only way to oppose sexism is to demonize femininity have lost the plot. They’re falling into sexism without being honest with themselves. As for definitions, there’s nothing wrong with yours but I’d like to add my perspective 🙂. I think personality traits shouldn’t be seen as gendered. However expressions of gender in as in, fashion, media culture, and aesthetics have gendered qualities. Therefore I define femininity as wearing feminine clothes and presenting more traditionally feminine. However your point still stands under that definition. As more girly-girls characters are heavily “mean-girlized” and seen as weak even if in reality those stereotypes don’t add up.

[@MA-ir8oc]

Thank you for not gendering personality traits, girls are not masculine because they can stand up for themselves and boys are not feminine for caring about others. Those are traits that can be embraced by either in a healthy way. The less you feel like a gender and the more you feel like a person the better. We’re all just people with different traits and experiences.

[@boonAlina]

Well that's not exactly what feminine and masculine mean. As I said, both genders can be fem or masc. Fem and masc are not genders. That's the reason why a man would have a feminine trait if he was super empathetic. But that doesn't make him any less of a man. Feminine traits are not female traits, they are just traits. And either gender can have them. (Sorry I just feel you may have misunderstood me and I had to clarify.)

[@alyssasamons1837]

@boonAlina ok i think I understand what you we’re getting at.

[@MA-ir8oc]

@Soothsayer-ll6pm But what is a man being a man and a woman being a woman? Until that is clear, I don't really think gendered roles make much difference as long as both people agree to what roles they're going to do. For me a man produces semen and can get a woman pregnant, and a woman can get pregnant and carry a child, but beyond that it pretty much stops there. Yes men are more equipped to to do hard labor, but there are many tribal societies where women did the bulk of the labor albeit in a group setting. As a woman, I don't really care about traditional gender roles, because my experience of them came from a religion that treats women in a toxic way(desert trio, I'm looking at you). I don't want kids or have my role as caring for the house, I'd rather repair and fix stuff than clean and cook. I wouldn't rule out a relationship, but am not interested in one at this point. I'm sure many women want a protector, but many don't as well because we shouldn't have to be protected from other men, men should be civilized enough ( as many are, but just as many unfortunately are not) that their mere presence should not scare a woman. Also many men think they're protectors just by being men, but have next to no combat training and are honestly scared of authority figures and can barely stand up for themselves much less someone else. Now I will say if someone wants kids, having a set idea of who does what is great, but just as a man needs to know how to clean the house, the woman should know how to change the oil. That way if anything happens to the man ( or woman) they dont have to rush immediately into a relationship which could possible endanger the kids. Many women rush into toxic relationships in this scenario, just as many widowers might rush to get a new wife so they don't have to care for the kids. The kids usually suffer in this situation.

[@nerissacrawford8017]

I present feminine in looks but I nerd out about warships, fighter jets and muscle cars. I actually enjoy combining fashion and these things in one aesthetic and philosophy.

[@nickcher7071]

as a guy, I say that having a female friend who can nerd out with you about warships is a damn satisfying feeling

[@R3GARnator]

You sound like you belong at r/NonCredibleDefense.

[@yusaki8064]

I’m a trans girl, so I have a bit of a specific perspective. I got bullied for being girly, but that was because everyone saw me as a boy. When I transitioned (Which like none of my friends found surprising much to my surprised Pikachu face), as much as I wanted to be as feminine as I liked, I’ve struggled with fully expressing it mostly out of the fear and anxiety that was brewed in me after years of bullying at school. When I want to wear a dress in public I have to psych myself up because I am so fucking terrified of people. So to me, girls who are able to be girly and own it are bloody brilliant. I wish I could have that confidence. But there are some things no amount of anxiety meds seem to be able to help.

[@thelibyanplzcomeback]

Feminine characters aren't annoying, but overly feminine characters are. Same with masculinity. Doesn't matter if these characters are female or male. Masculinity and femininity are arbitrary (when it comes to how people actually are), so people who don't have any masculine traits or any feminine traits are (or seem) fake/inhuman to me. Someone can be very masculine-leaning or very feminine-leaning, but if their entire personalities are their genders, it gets really annoying.

[@Stankyl0saurus]

Well said. I feel that it's also annoying when a character personality is being "the opposite of their gender". If the writers make the entire appeal of a girl "she's not like other girls". It comes across as kind of misogynistic. Like women are bad and naturally weak. People should stop thinking about writing good female characters and just think about them as characters. But I'm a guy so I don't really know how girls feel about it.

[@yanrokbowl28]

*gender expressions

[@thelibyanplzcomeback]

@@Stankyl0saurus I think it ultimately stems from writers trying to say that not all women and girls are the same, but they just go a little too far with it and make them even more masculine than most male characters, which gets into "caricature" territory.

[@MiNyaMiArts]

This is just my opinion but outwardly feminine characters like Lottie(princess & the frog), Rarity, Princess Bubblegum, Starfire, etc are all beloved staples in their respective fandoms. I think much of the hatred given to these characters is A) classic case of “getting in the way of my ship” or B) They’re simply one dimensional or fall into character tropes that people don’t enjoy (such as the manic pixie dream girl/adorkable trend). I personally don’t find the inverse(tomboys) to always be well liked either, and it really comes down to their characterization and personality most of the time. There’s a reason tests such as the “sexy lamp” exist; if a female character can be replaced by a sexy lamp, she’s not a character.

[@dogti2959]

As a teenage girl, I was shamed for not liking typical girl thing like shopping and make-up. As an adult, I can realize it came from the passing of my mother, and so no feminine figure in my life other than my grandmother (that I was shamed for "stealing her style), my anxiety and depression, my low self-esteem and my lack in communication that made me an isolated kid. Hell, I was even asked by my sport teacher to ask girls in my class about certain stuff regarding period because I shouldn't be missing class because of a little blood. Like, the terrible pain I suffered for a week wasn't a reason in itself. Anyway, as a 26 years old woman, I can't wait for warmer time to put on dresses or wear long hair. I'm still not comfortable with make up or jewelry but I can now choose my own clothing. And I don't care anymore to show that I like anime, to act a little too childish, to fully express my emotions or to be kind with people. Because that's what save my life, not the "you need to be special" bullshit. I'm happy to be a woman, whatever that means, and I'm grateful to be able to work with kids all day. They give me my daily dose of positivity and contact I need, that I'm too icky to ask of adults. And, I mean, kids are just too cute, anything can become an adventure or a prize. I can just be myself and enjoy my day, that's should be anyone goal in life. Instead of playing the victim card all the time.

[@Mariathinking]

I think that people also dont like stickler type characters. You know - competent, doesnt like fun, prioritises the safe route, organised, overall bland. Its why scott summers, leonardo and robin are disliked compared to their teamates. Tbf, ppl love team azula and they are quite girl, epsecially Tai Lee. I think stickler type characters dont take on calls to action as rapidly as the tomboy/lancer type characters because the sticklers are more hesitant and dont like to break the rules. There are ways of making feminine characters break rules and be compelling ie rarity from mlp or Miss Piggy, i think it takes a certain skill set to write fabulous characters. youtube.com/@sippingteayuh?si=WNc-MmshFvyc8JIl this channel show cases these feminine characters that ppl adore well.

[@mrsfahrenheit]

I love Charlie and Katara what’s going onnnn😂😭 back in the day in my friend group everyone always wanted to be Katara. I was more the odd one out because I always wanted to be Toph.

[@fuzzyfaz1987]

I think it's mainly about the writing, and not so much the femininity itself. In Danganronpa, I know tons of people who love Celeste, Kaede, Sonia, Mikan, and Miu just as much as others love Mukuro, Kyoko, and Sakura. I think it's mostly a matter of taste, or where you're looking, but I think if the writers give both sides of the spectrum good development, both can be equally as appealing I don't think Charlie is a good example since she's the main character, and people tend to gravitate towards the supporting characters / antagonists / minor characters (so many people ADORE Rosie in case you haven't noticed, and I adore her, too) moreso than the protagonist it seems. Even going back to Danganronpa for a minute, none of the protagonist have nearly as many fans as any of the other characters- even if you combine the fans of Hajime, Makoto, and Kaede, you won't get nearly as many as characters like Nagito, Toko, Gonta, Byakuya, Ibuki, Fuyuhiko, Kaito, or Kokichi have individually. Also, Charlie absolutely has an angsty backstory (hello? Lucifer? Lilith?? Having to see your people die every year??) But even then, you mention Angel Dust but he's incredibly feminine (though I suppose not by your definition of it, which makes sense) If you want a nurturing, empathetic, and giving character that's very well-loved, just look at Kirumi Tojo! She's incredibly selfless and supportive, while also dressing feminine- she may not be pink, but I don't think that's a requirement for this, right?

[@boonAlina]

Kirumi Tojo being one of the least popular characters lol

[@wiwitutsu2175]

I don't think Danganronpa is that well written tbh but that's subjective

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

Katara has anger issues and thats why shes my favorite character

[@Mariathinking]

Yeah! she shined when she tried to kill the general that killed her mother but held back. That made go from feeling mixed about her to loving her. And when she tied up azula in the frozen ice thing at the end was so cool. I think what makes ppl dislike her is her stickler aspect, especially against ang, sokka and tough who have comic relief aspects - so she's seen as ending their jokes. I think It would of been interesting if they explored her taking on the mom role at such a young age more, she is only 13/14. (Maybe they did I just couldn't remember) The rest of team avatar, bar zuko, are still allowed to act juvenile/goofy and she wasn't given that chance in the same way.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

@@Mariathinking she laughs at their jokes sometimes.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

@@Mariathinking i read all that and yeah you're right I know

[@ThePrincessCH]

@Mariathinking I think people dislike her because her idealistic nature can come off as contradictory in a war zone. Like when she prompted Haru to save the old man, and he ended up turning him in. Sure, she had no way of knowing that would happen, but she adopts the same attitude when she tried to save him and the other Earthbenders, using her ideals as a means to encourage them to fight. Then there was the episode where she pretended to be the Painted Lady and teased Sokka about his schedule in spite of their deadline, not to mention her interference likely cost them precious time. I saw an educational sketch show called "Horrible Histories," there was a sketch of WWII housewife who resorted to eating zoo animals because food was so scarce and one of a WWI soldier who mentioned that in the trenches soldiers ate bread made of sawdust (Ersatz bread), coffee made from coal tar, and pepper made from ashes, alongside a milkman who diluted his in the toilet due to the shortages. Katara's a stark idealist, but in a war zone, you're probably better off being an extreme pragmatist.

[@TheeDeadDoll]

@@ThePrincessCHI love Katara so much but I agree one of her character flaws was she was a bit self righteous and hypocritical at times. Sometimes the rules didn’t apply to her in some instances if SHE felt it was in the right. Disregarding other people’s feelings. For example, when she told Sokka he didn’t care for their mother as much as she did because he wasn’t revengeful towards her executor. But I still love her because everyone has flaws and I think ATLA did a good job show casing realism in their characters.

[@MiracleTimes07]

There’s an anime called Apothecary diaries, which has a very well written female lead (her name is Maomao) like even people who don’t like anime admit that she’s very well written. Like there are a lot of videos on KZbin that talk about her character, that’s why I’m not going to talk much about her, I recommend checking out one of these videos on KZbin if you want to know more about her

[@dltr4730]

It could also be in part because of what other femenine chacaters have been like that have nothing to do with the carefully writen examples you've given. Characters that are a list of what misogynistic writers think of woman, and are written without any nuance or to be explicitly annoying. Imagine Chichi, from Dragon Ball Z, where her only porpuse of existing is giving birth to new plot poits (Gohan and Gotten) and showing how boring life without fighting is, how annoying it is to be normal and be the butt of every "I hate my wife" joke ever. That's just the writers ranting about their marriages instead of going to therapy. Another example I can think of is Amy Rose during certain games. She is everything girly and annoying because, well, she's an obligatory love interest created in the 80's so she's what a bunch of computer nerds imagine that girls are like. With time, the idea of this bothersome female characters that don't really serve a porpuse gets drilled into our heads, so as soon as we see any of those girly characteristics anywhere, our predisposition is to think about those bad examples. Amy has had a couple of games where she's carefully written and gained a lot of depth, but every time she appears people are quick to dismiss her because that's what we have been doing for so long.

[@hanaheaven9058]

It's funny because quote to the Japanese instruction booklet, Amy rose described as an "energetic or optimistic tomboy". in sonic fighters, where the piko piko hammer was introduce , also explains why she was given the hammer as a weapon in order to strengthen her tomboyish nature.

[@boonAlina]

Yeah, I guess it does stem from shonen anime writing women terribly for generations

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

What's ironic about Chichi and Bulma is that sayians like strong women.

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@@boonAlinawhat are your thoughts on Wasp from Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes and Max from Stranger Things?

[@boonAlina]

​@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 Not really into Marvel. Max is pretty cool. It's nice that she's a tomboy that's perfectly fine dressing feminine when the occasion calls for it.

[@JohnnyCindahouse]

I honestly think it's weird that personality traits and hobbies/lifestyles are divided into "masculine" and "feminine". The whole thing just seems...dated, if you ask me. Like, pink isn't a masculine or feminine color, it's just a color. Why assign gender to everything? Y'know?

[@boonAlina]

Well like I said, feminine isn't inherintly a "female" thing. You can be a man who is super feminine or a woman who is super masculine. They're really just... ways people think and how they work?

[@R3GARnator]

Lucy from the Fallout show is a good example of a feminine protagonist and how that can be successful with the public.

[@MrRachaelm2013]

Great video! You touched on a topic that not a lot of people talk or think about. I was more of a tomboy in elementary and had all tomboy friends. I loved the Barbie movies though! And never told my friends that because I felt too embarrassed about liking something that was girly. So silly that as a little girl I was embarrassed about liking something girly. I think writers may be thinking of their target audience when writing characters. If they want an audience that both girls and boys will watch, then a main female character can’t be girly or too feminine otherwise boys and tomboys may feel embarrassed to watch or wouldn’t even want to watch. But idk! That’s just my perspective. (Edit: word correction)

[@yanrokbowl28]

I was rolling with you until you said you were a little girl after just saying you were a tomgirl. A tomgirl is a boy interested in traditionally girly things. A tomboy is a girl interested in traditionally boyish things.

[@MrRachaelm2013]

Oh - that’s what I meant! I meant to say I was a tomboy. I didn’t even realize I flipped that. I’m glad you said something!

[@yanrokbowl28]

@@MrRachaelm2013 And just to let you know, no masculine person should ever have to feel ashamed of liking anything or anyone feminine, regardless of what people say.

[@Spiritx1992]

It’s interesting that the feminine characters you mentioned are so disliked but no one really hates on Starfire for that and she’s probably more feminine than all of them.

[@axelsmith4722]

I talk from experience, when I say that being surrounded by girly girl things and having it pushed on me, when I was clearly more tomboyish made me resent the more feminine end of the spectrum as a kid/teen. I resented it so much, that most my OCs would be mistaken for guys 95% of the time. And I was glad to see the women in media getting a bit more tomboyish... until I realized they were actively over-correcting and treating the girly girls even worse than I used to be treated back then. It's going too far. Femininity isn't a weakness and being tomboyish isn't either.

[@boonAlina]

Exactly. I think I mostly hated anything girly because of my toxic religious upbringing.

[@ChaosEnthusiast]

i think this ties into the whole "not like other girls" phase a lot of teenagers go through, where they are convinced they have to stand out and not do/like girly stuff that "other girls" are doing.

[@digitalrecord6334]

I loved katara growing up. She was and is one of my favorite characters in avatar. I was so surprised when i found out that apparently a lot of people hated her but i think sarcastic chorus pretty much hit the nail on the head on why (other than misogyny). Being the motherly “heart” of the group, she usually gets delegated to being the one who has to do the unfun jobs of keeping the group in line and that can sound like nagging. And when you’re always the one who has to do this, it makes any offenses you do that kinda goes against it seem way bigger than if someone else in the group did it, because then it has hypocritical connotations. Regretfully, a lot of femine characters are usually delegated to the role of the heart, so the same thing usually applies to them. Maybe if we started making feminine characters some other type, like maybe the lancer or the brains of the group, then there might be some better reception

[@duyngo7697]

thats a nice perspective on Femininity. Though i think it could still be a bit deeper than that, rather than just ppl like different things, who care about the world. Like i wonder if ppl like masculine female characters only in fiction and not in real life? or are those examples that you point out are made with male audience in mind so it come out that way.

[@MA-ir8oc]

I will say as a somewhat masculine female ( by masculine stereotypes) most men are scared of me. Many have told me if i ever marry, i’ll have to let the guy do the home repairs even if he does them worse than me, just to spare his ego. My body doesnt physically look masculine, which i think scares them more. However, i’ve noticed most secure men are not scared and tend to be respectful to me. Ive had a former guy friend tell me they want someone to boss him around, but he wants to be dominant. Makes no sense, either get bossed around or boss someone around or work together as a team, but dont expect someone to play mental gymnastics of being subtly bossy. Very insecure, because even when he needed someone to stand up for him and i did, he couldnt even do the rest of the leg work and stand up for himself ( and i wouldve helped him at the time too, cause it aint easy standing up for yourself).

[@truthseeker7815]

@@MA-ir8oc, that’s the dream for many by the way

[@KiwiDragon15]

I find it interesting that you included Charlie on the list of feminine characters with Lute as her opposite. Although I know that this video is talking more about personality traits, and as the ones you listed, Charlie is definitely more feminine and Lute more masculine. It’s interesting because Charlie is definitely more liked than Lute (from what I’ve seen) but that might just be because Lute is a massive jerk. But speaking of how they dress (and I know this isn’t the point of the video) Charlie has both a masculine name and wears a suit, while being very feminine in her personality.

[@intranexine8901]

My personal theory is that since masculinity is heavily tied to dominance and we live in a world built on dominance hierarchies, femininity is descriminated against by default. In a Society built on hierarchy the act of gaining rights and freedoms is inately masculinizing. It would take some serious anarchist progress and probably the destruction of capitalism to truely fix that. But most people can't even inagine what a world without those looks like so it'll take a WHILE in the best of cases.

[@karinasdreamworld]

I feel you on the "ashamed of femininity traits" headspace. In fact, Katara is a character that resonates strongly with me when it comes to this topic. I used get really annoyed with Katara. Never hated her, but she was my least favorite of the main cast for a while. I realize that this is because I actually related to Katara a lot (sweet but hot-tempered when crossed), but when I was first watching the show, I was 12-years old and projected myself onto her unconsciously, and I was not happy about that at the time because I was not happy with who I was as a person and the way I handled things. Now though, she's become one of my favorite characters because I love the way she develops over the course of the series. And since I am much more comfortable with who I am as a person now, I feel great about relating to her :) Apologies for the mini rant lol

[@Dragon66898]

I have like 5 female cousins that are either as old as me or younger and each one is different. Some of them are girlier than the others and others make me feel like less than a man since she has a better understanding of cars than me but I never thought less of them because of those things, if there’s one thing I want to pass on to everyone here it’s that only your own opinion about yourself matters.

[@Frogbok]

Honestly I came into this expecting that this would be another, "it's not because they're a woman, it's bad writing." But all the points you brought up I actually hadn't thought of before. I related to this because I am a Cis male but I always wished I was a girl, I don't wanna do any transgender stuff because i know it wont fix things for me. Im glad to be related to by someone after all these years. Great job, mate! You earned a sub! Edit: OMG YOU LOVE ALL THE SAME STUFF AS ME! Except hazbin hotel but still, YOU'RE AWESOME MATE!

[@boonAlina]

Yeah, I never wished I was a boy but I have had thoughts of changing my pronouns to she/they, but as you said, it'll just make things more complicated (I know that's not directly what you said but still) and it's not like my family would respect it anyway. (I've been told by a few ppl that I seem like the perfect mix between feminine and masculine haha)

[@cmgvillager]

I would also like to add the racial dynamic to this as well. Notice how Katara and Korra get the most hate outta anyone in their series. Korra is masculine just like Toph yet those same traits are hated on Korra. WOC suffer the most from being judged on their femininity and or masculinity, especially if you’re darker skin.

[@piper3778]

Lots of super feminine characters in anime I'm pretty sure. People don't hate them

[@boomgirlbucko]

Sure but not many people like 'em either. You always see a female character getting praised, and guess what? It's always a female character that has a bunch of masculine hobbies, or is a warrior. Like Olivier Armstrong from FMAB, or Erza from Fairytail, or Haruhi from OHSHC, etc.

[@combatseawolf]

Would definitely mention Relena Peacecraft, Lacus Clyne and Kudelia Aina Bernstein for this

[@ThePrincessCH]

@@boomgirlbucko Have you seen "The Apothecary Diaries"?

[@regularly_priced]

Because the only reason they like them is because they’re attractive -_-

[@moycorbin4750]

We why they aren't hated 🍑

[@lunacurtis780]

*inserting myself as soon as possible* I like Charlie more than all of the male characters combined

[@Seminooos]

Very well said.

[@leongwaikit6658]

Look, if the characters can take care of the main character or everyone and still kick ass now that is women I like😊😊😊.

[@Andrewtr6]

I think one of the reasons some of these characters may have been disliked is because they were girly characters in shows marketed towards boys. As a writer, I've created many characters, both male and female, and thinking of my female characters specifically in relation to this video, I think I've created a good mix. My goal is always to create unique characters so having all my characters be masculine or feminine would work against that. Two of my characters come to mind when I think of more tomboyish girls, but the lead character of my fantasy story is more traditionally feminine. A lot of the stories I write are superhero stories and I like writing feminine girls with superpowers that are traditionally masculine. People expect the tomboy to be a heavy hitter so it's fun to subvert expectations.

[@phorchybug3286]

I don't mind cutesy feminine design. As long as it's not pandering slop like Dora or Barbie.

[@honestimack1061]

I definitely understand it now that's a great expiation

[@priscillaanimations2836]

I’m the girl in between I love to be tomboy and girly the next. Ps I am straight so I always liked boys I was never gay. I just act masculine sometimes and girly too. I was a full on tomboy growing up. And now I also like to dress up and look pretty. I love to wear dresses and straight my hair I also love to put on makeup. Like any other girl. But also love sports like soccer basketball and tennis. I guess the best being a tomboy. Your friend group is a boy. So I was actually hanging out with cute boys. I did had a crush on 1 of them later in years he admitted that he had a crush on me too. We’re just friends still we decided to stay as friends.

[@boonAlina]

Yeah same. My personality is pretty much right in the middle. Like, you won't catch me wearing make up or skirts, but you also won't catch me talking about trucks and sports lol.

[@Pleading_Souls]

Maybe because the "feminine" characters are written as how men and disconnected women see femininity. As a little kid watching avatar, I related more with toph than I did with katara. Katara had this foolish attitude throwing, bossy girl attitude that I as a little girl just saw as foolish and knew women I looked up to weren't like that. There's nothing wrong with being girly, but there is a problem when the female character is just everything bad about being a girl.

[@ThePrincessCH]

You might enjoy "My Farm by the Palace" on Tapas. The protagonist has overtly feminine traits that make her endearing and assertive at the same time. She's sweet and sensitive but doesn't undervalue her femininity. There's a chapter where she's holding she's instructing some high born women how to make dandelion wine, and when people started questioning why she would ask women of their status to do something like that her response is that they spend so much time dedicating themselves to others that they might forget how to treat themselves, "the most important person in the world." She's not a warrior, but she's not the type of person you can talk down to either.

[@yay29823]

Bro you did Katara dirty

[@MiracleTimes07]

Bruh, Katara is more than that!

[@truthseeker7815]

@@yay29823, bruhette* Or some shit like that

[@espurrseyes42]

​@@MiracleTimes07 Yes, but let's not pretend like she isn't like that. That was a whole plot point in the Runaway episode. Toph was making bank scamming Fire Nationers, Katara was being prudish and was against the "fun" thing, then changed her mind because she wanted to be seen as cool, only to regret it when this leads to her and Toph getting caught by Combustion Man.

[@shadowdragonlord2295]

The first 20 seconds instantly reminded me of this one video were a KZbinr charr something talked about the gym leader/elite four member Larry and his outlook on life, talking about how people are too obsessed over not being normal or rather being unique and outstanding.

[@boonAlina]

Never heard of it

[@plama8920]

Lmao i always disliked Akita because her story souded like cringey oc some 12 year old made, like seriously xD

[@DjPrimeVideos]

From my experience as a guy watching all sorts of shows there appears to be a dichotomy. It mostly depends on who your show appeals to the most. While a show like ATLA appeals to both sides, it likely appeals more to young males, and with how Katara acted in the very beginning it kinda makes sense why she was hated. I should know i hated her too until i grew up. ...then on the other side theres Korra who just came off as annoying because of her attitude and temper.

[@boomgirlbucko]

Well duh, do people forget that a character is supposed to start out with flaws??

[@biancalord1457]

I hope the world will no longer hating femininity.

[@AndroidHarris]

I love charlie. She is my favorite from hazbin.

[@bongo-cat6001]

I love your voice so much

[@boonAlina]

Aww thank you 🥹

[@ThePrincessCH]

There's a manhwa on Tapas called "My Farm by the Palace." The protagonist has overtly feminine traits that make her endearing and assertive at the same time. She's sweet and sensitive but doesn't undervalue her femininity. There's a chapter where she's holding she's instructing some high born women how to make dandelion wine, and when people started questioning why she would ask women of their status to do something like that her response is that they spend so much time dedicating themselves to others that they might forget how to treat themselves, "the most important person in the world." She's not a warrior, but she's not the type of person you can talk down to either. She acts a lot like Disney's Cinderella did when they received the invitation to the ball.

[@Player-kq6fd]

I know i am late to this As a male who loves Shonen, there are a lot of male leads who get shit on. When there character who are nice or silly, they are hated but have a when characters who are dark are favorite there alot anime characters are like that. So i talk both male and female friends above characters they prefer darker characters, badass characters who are no mercy, or rude characters at that or just straight up toxic . So maybe when they see feminine character they too nice or what every because when Charlie had that moment when he turns and rage people wouldn't stop talking about that even luffy gotten hate because he gear 5 was silly not cool but silly evem this it was Badass thats just my opinion i guess

[@racheltoler3895]

I don't see how Lute and Kyoshi are unfeminine, they both wear make-up and a dress!

[@boomgirlbucko]

She's talking about personality, not looks

[@ThePrincessCH]

Kyoshi's outfit looks a bit like samurai armor, though.

[@boonAlina]

Their clothes aren't what I was referring to. Cuz they both sure don't _act_ girly (which is completely fine)

[@GlitchBoy-ws5in]

​@boonAlina it's ok for men to look ugly bc no one cares about men women are put on a higher standard bc people actually care about them. there's a reason why "female protagonist" is a category in most gaming stores but not "male protagonist" Is it because it's ok for men to look ugly but for women they must always be attractive because that's all misogynists care about when it comes to women? It's just said af tbh Gear of War protagonist looks like a bulldog, no one complains, but when they saw women with same Archetype, EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MIND!!!!

[@matheussanthiago9685]

Touché

[@Ultras_450]

As a new male writer, I guess, writing female characters is the toughest part. Atleast for me. That's why I am thinking to taking guidance and help from my cousin sister to write them.

[@retroman3960]

Maybe this is why people prefer Toph over Katara?

[@theflingthing21]

So glad someone finally said this and as a tom boy myself most of my best friends tend to lean more on the girly girl side and I think that's great I don't see why they should be shamed for it

[@moonbeamsun9066]

I think a lot of people forget that feminism wasn’t forcing women to do anything, it was giving them the CHOICE to, so if they needed or wanted to do more “masculine” things, they could.

[@yusaki8064]

Yo, who the fuck hates Katara? She’s great!

[@PlanetZoidstar]

It's not so much Femininity that is hated as it's characters with Feminine traits who are written to be weak or ineffectual. Because many writers sadly cannot conceive of ways to communicate Femininity and Strength/Competence at the same time. There are more ways to be 'Strong' than mere physical strength, but they are often more difficult to write. Strength of character, emotional fortitude and the capacity to support others are all very good ways to write a Feminine character who is also strong. Any brute can just punch their way through a single fight, it takes a strong person to deal with a stressful or demanding situation for an extended period of time. I'm currently writing a story with two leads, one Male and one Female. The Male character resolves most of his obstacles through fighting, but he still leans on the Female character for emotional support when fighting isn't enough, showing he trusts her enough to let his guard down and be vulnerable. Her struggles are more through Communication and having the Courage to pursue her goals non-violently. That's not to say she never fights, but she always seeks a non-violent solution when possible. Her strength comes through having the emotional endurance to push through the tough times with the Male character, and in turn they influence one another. She teaches him to be more Communicative and Social, where he teaches her to be Courageous and Driven. Sort of like a Yin/Yang situation, but one is never put down to glorify the other, they need each other and neither can make the journey alone.

[@boonAlina]

That sounds really cool. Let me know when you finish it :)

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@boonAlina Thank you. Will do. :) One of the challenges I made for myself was to write the Female lead as someone who embraces alot of Feminine traits (such as empathy, courtesy, communicative, caring, loves art and is fond pink in her attire) but is also portrayed as capable and strong-willed. She is feminine but you'd never call her weak or passive. :)

[@DARKMalice9000]

@@PlanetZoidstar What you are writing is like Fire Emblem Sacred Stones twins Eirika and Ephraim

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@DARKMalice9000 It's actually set in the Beastars universe.

[@DARKMalice9000]

@@PlanetZoidstar Oh that is cool ^^

[@fyran6453]

*To me it doesn't seem these characters are usually hated or disliked. I think they're more likely ignored or understimated* *But i understand your point and as a tomboy lover myself, i kinda miss when there was lots of people caring about actually feminime female characters rather than tough and masculine female characters*

[@Henbot]

Personally never been bothered by it and love both of them and who they are.

[@fyran6453]

*as a lover of tough and masculine females, i honestly agree with you. i miss when actually feminime female characters were the norme and even beloved*

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@fyran6453 Surprised by this considering how much people glorify and justify people like Jeri Hogarth, Mystique, Bonnie Winterbottom, Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy

[@fyran6453]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 what do they have of mascline?

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@@fyran6453 they are malicious, wicked, and get away, and alot of times excused for huring people as they are presented being “tragic” or “complex” Is being bad and mischievous asshole who gets away associated with masculinity? Cause I saw someone in another thread say “responsible” female characters are hated. I guess im wondering what’s considered masculine or feminine truly in character writing

[@fyran6453]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 i don't understand well. Can you be more clear?

[@wakkablockablaw6025]

Very based video let's not stigmatize femininity.

[@edoardobrocca7985]

i don't know, because on Internet you find different group and it's hard to find percentage, also because on Internet you find the more extreme point of view. Also in later year a lot of strong female character in the worst sense of the word come out, which don't give a good reputation. But some points: femininity isn't as flashy as masculine, and often brings dialogue, which often brings discomfort. Depending on how they're written, they can result annoying in contrast with the rest of the cast, but it's really a case by case. Feminine also comes with things a part of the audience will not care about, like clothes, or shopping(always case by case). Also empathy, nurturing, ecc. requires good writing too function, and will fail easily i think and result annoying. Also you always find someone that says something is bad. Maybe in this particular period feminine characters are more scrutinised. Also i want to add that i thing in general feminine quality are less valued than masculine quality. This is the real patriarchy mindset. So is a multicause thing , obviously.

[@Ima_bnslm]

Fr like wyldfire was raised in the wyldness and so much people say that she is annoying but bro and katara is katara bro why can't people like wyldfire or katara

[@boonAlina]

And I also love how Sora is a mechanic that's perfectly comfortable wearing super girly clothes.

[@biancalord1457]

But A lot of Young People, especially Men are Depressed, Anxious, Angry, Sad, Hopeless, Nervous, Feels Worthless, Helpless, Unloved, Hapless, Unhappy, Antisocial, Maladjusted, Maladaptive, Mentally and Emotionally Unhealthy.

[@Karmasu_L]

Who hated on Katara? What kind of circles were you in? I grew up with ATLA and honestly Katara is one of the best female characters i came across.

[@Lvestfold4143]

One of my favorite parts about Hazbin Hotel is the feminine energy both Charlie and Sir Pentious bring especially when together. It’s adorable.

[@Kooljupiter]

It could be the audiences for the shows (though Ive only seen the avatar shows) didnt realize people hate Kitara like that. I do know people Love Azula who is feminine.. well more so Evil queen archetype = Toxic Femininity

[@rike4706]

Commenting here as a guy who’s listened to male reviewers talk about the same thing. Also agree with the sentiment that we should all just express ourselves as we wish and not worry about expectations others have on us. I think part of the problem is the struggle to find a demographic/target audience. We see a show like Totally Spies and can say with certainty that it’s a show made for girls. Not that guys can’t enjoy it, just that it’s geared more toward girls. Meanwhile, Ninjago, especially early Ninjago where there were hardly any girls, was geared mainly towards boys. Taking it a step further, we could definitely say that Dragon Ball Z was a guys show. Again, girls can enjoy these things, but they weren’t necessarily the target audience. Then we have LoK. While I cant cite the exact vid on KZbin, I remember learning how Nickelodeon saw Avatar as being more of a guy’s show, so they were iffy about Korra. But it turned out that Korra was a hit. In retrospect, it seems Korra was “masculine” enough to appeal to guys. If there are more of these guy shows than gals shows, and if these guy shows create girls with more masculine than feminine traits, then that could be interpreted as saying traditionally feminine traits aren’t as valuable. Then again, it could also be an issue that male writers write women the same as they would a man, not taking their general femininity into consideration. In other words, they write a man in a woman’s body. To illustrate this, I remember a meme about the female characters designed for the male gaze vs the female gaze. The design for the female gaze was very feminine, very classy, with a beautiful ornate dress. The design for the male gaze, in contrast, was more revealing. More skin and more attitude. Men aren’t too different. Men, for example, can either be a man’s man (try to impress other men) vs a lady’s man (try to impress women).

[@SiresOrbwits-oi8mz]

The simple answer is, in a story that involves confrontation the people who usually get out shined are the nurturer, motherly types. The audience wants to see the underdog's be victorious, so anyone who isn't constantly pushing their limits, or holding back for the sake of personal reasons feels like they're weighing the story down for some people. Perspective is a great tool for storytelling but not if it gets in the way of the story's pacing. The audience doesn't want to feel like their time is being wasted, and not everybody watching has enough patience to watch the nurturer type character come into their own.

[@boonAlina]

I added subtitles so if any part was hard to understand well there ya go 😊

[@ToraGhost]

I used to hate a LOT of female and feminine characters as a kid, and I tbh do think it was just a kind of pick me phase, I later came to believe that’s all it was, and that I was just a sexist little girl😭 But I recently realized, wait, many woman and feminine characters are just… really poorly written? Especially by large companies such as Disney (looking at more recent characters, mostly). They say “girl power!” And then write bland female characters whose only personality is being a powerful or successful woman. Other than that- they aren’t really people. Just girlboss women they can use as representation trophies Also I didnt realize at the time that I was transmasc, so tbh that could also play into that😭 Anyway, another reason I personally think feminine women may be more disliked is because until recently- that’s kind of all we got in mainstream media? Ig when people are starved of representation, it’s kind of the thing they’re most concerned with. Not seeing other people like you might cause you to feel disconnected from the characters you *are* offered, and if you are already set apart by society, it’s kind of a big deal when you finally do get some representation and someone saying “hey, people like you exist, and you’re not wrong for being however different you may be” Anyway, that’s my personal perspective, but I definitely agree that oftentimes people become too extreme and pressure feminine girls not to be so because toxic masculinity or being a pick me (“I don’t wear makeup” girl) or just desperately wanting more representation People should be allowed and encouraged to be who they are, wether or not you can personally relate! (Reposting this from a reply I made just to share my perspective in my own comment 😌)

[@Iloveaespa980]

I don't see Lute as a Tomboy appearance wise she's the most feminine you can get she's just a strong woman.

[@dustinmccollum7196]

I don't think it's that people hate Is femininity. It comes down to character traits. I haven't seen ninjago or Hazben but I love Avatar. People didn't like Katara because at fist she was pushy, Is self righteous, always nagging, ect. But she was written to be a motherly archetype. So she was doing what mothers do when they think they know what's best for there loved ones. But as the series went on she starts seeing she don't need to help them with every little thing and start focusing more on herself while still being motherly to the others. In simpler terms she stopped being a helicopter parent to a loving big sister type. Now for why the characters you call masculine what people like about them is there Confidence. Just look at movies/media like legally blonde, Buffy, Powerpuff Girls, sailor moon. These shows all have very girly girl characters and are very popular even with boys. There's just a problem with writers. That just make feminine girls into the Damsel and distress trope or eye candy, or the token girl of the group( right next to token non-white person).

[@GraaD-87]

As a guy I actually love a lot of shows with female protagonists and I fail to see the problem here as long as it doesn't feel clearly forced (unless feeling forced is actually part of the intended narrative). Like... "Star vs. the Forces of Evil" is one of many examples of a really good show that takes all those girly stereotypes to a near-caricature level because it just perfectly fits the actual character - a princess from a magical dimension - and then just works with it within the narrative. Clashing her with both real (non-magical) world and the dark side of her own realm. Not to change her into something different, but to let her make the worlds better in ways no other character would be bothered to. And it doesn't feel forced or stupid (even though the show's name and early episodes may give an impression of it being just silly), she's a great character who becomes wise without becoming any less girly.

[@DuskyPredator]

A love of subversion, although at this point feminine characters is pretty much the subversion, especially in a strong way. That is another thing, strength. Masculinity often gets seen as strong and feminity as weak, so you see people assuming female characters are weak if they are feminine, or cannot be taken seriously It is why in certain circles I think we are seeing a rise in popularity of villainess characters, as they tend to be only ones who can be feminine and strong.

[@melantharosewood]

Wow, that explains why some people were weirdly hating on Rarity from My Little Pony.

[@MDonuT-of7px]

One of the important things to consider is the target demographic of the series itself. Stuff like Ninjago, ATLA and Shounen anime are designed for little boys, who generally prefer masculine concepts and traits within media, so they are generally going to prefer female characters with masculine traits to female characters with feminine traits. Oh and I'm also going to be comment number three billion to state that Rarity is best pony, by far.

[@klamacz47]

I have a completely different impression. Every time a more masculine female character appears, the entire Internet shouts that woke culture hates femininity.

[@ExtremeWreck]

In other words, female characters can't win.

[@linsangchannel5923]

And also,Luth is not "masculine". It makes no sense to me to only categorize character's personnality traits as either masc or fem and nothing else. Humans are more complex than just masc or fem

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@linsangchannel5923 EXACTLY

[@untitledproductions644]

Heck even as a guy I can relate. I’ve always known that psychologically speaking I was more feminine than everyone else but because I had an interest for masculine hobbies I was perceived as just some average dude. I believe that the issue is that the conservative idea is that femininity is being weak and submissive therefore incapable of being the hero while the liberal is the most stereotypical man you can think of but with boobs (ironically reenforcing the idea that you can’t be a feminine hero). But at least I’m glad characters like Katara exists even if they’re the exception

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

Surprised by this considering how much people glorify and justify people like Jeri Hogarth, Mystique, Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy

[@miaa-ps8dh]

UM I LOVE KATARA, and also a reason why she was disliked was probably cuz she was like motherly and bossy, while toph was more laid back and chill. and also korra got a fair share of hate for being like a pick me and stuck up.

[@boonAlina]

That's what character development is for I guess 😊

[@lauracerqueiramachado8979]

Well, I also like Katara but I think it also has to do with the way she dealt with her traumas, she used her trauma of losing her mother as a way to justify her bad behavior and well sure it is something that affects someone for life but she uses it way too often (it reminded me of “The Edge of 17” when Nadine tried to use her father’s death as an excuse for not bringing homework but her teacher asked her when it happened and it was a couple of years before and he said he had an expiration date for using the “dead relative” excuse), or because she made a scene whenever someone wanted to do things in a way that was different of hers

[@miaa-ps8dh]

@@boonAlina yeah its not cuz katara was feminine that she got hate, and korra got hate and she isnt feminine

[@miaa-ps8dh]

@@lauracerqueiramachado8979 yeah i mean it did affect her a lot, but at this point shes creating a label for herself that oh its because of that, shes kinda letting that affect her and more than it does or making it seem that way

[@AntiC7]

​@@lauracerqueiramachado8979tu ver as porcarias americanas justifica tu passar pano pra lacração, agr tudo faz sentido

[@ZeusMusculoso]

From anima psychology and Animus

[@max_cass6944]

i disagre korra is one of the most hated characters in the ATLA universe and she is inspired from women mma fighter and Katara is one one of the most loved characters in ATLA way more them Azula you is less feminie (according to you're definition) but great vid none the less

[@lucaslevinsky8802]

Azula is quite feminine tough, she is an excellent example of a ruthless, assertive, yet feminine character, not hyper feminine, but she's no Tomboy

[@boomgirlbucko]

No Katara used to be heavily hated, she only started gaining love after that one video talking about her femininity came out

[@turulszervac1714]

@@boomgirlbucko when? I've been in the ATLA/LOK fandom for over 12 years and never saw any of this hate for Katara. She's loved if anything

[@boomgirlbucko]

@@turulszervac1714 Then you were living under a rock. And also the Internet wasn't as prominent back then. But the reason the hated her was cuz of two comments she said which were "too bad you can't see them, Toph!" And something to Sokka about not being as close with mom as she was. But also cuz they didn't like how she was motherly. Those comments can be excused cuz she was literally like 12 and 13

[@yay29823]

Katara? She's very unpopular for a main character

[@jaydenjitzu6878]

100% agree! W vid

[@dangerbuffrocky]

I love Vania. She's a great character with good character development for a side character. I hope she comes back.

[@js-cm9si]

Pretty good take honestly.

[@AstronAnimations]

Completely agree with most of this video, hate towards femininity is completely unfounded and very prominent through lots of media and can/is a very harmful viewpoint, especially towards people who act feminine/hyperfeminine or generally fall into some stereotype of that sort. That being said, I politely disagree with the part where you state that you think hatred for femininity stems from the fact that after women got their rights they wanted to break the norm, therefore that means not being feminine. Breaking the norm does not at all equal hating/abandoning femininity (or doing what men do), its the complete opposite. The feminist movement has always been about the celebration of femininity and women. It's about giving women the right to choose who they wanna be (which in a way still ended up being the point of your video, which is good). It has always been about stopping the unreasonable hate towards femininity. The hatred has always existed, stemming from the very beginnings of civilization, and is very deeply ingrained into our societal norms/the way we default to thinking. This is not a hate comment or anything, just a simple clarification. I'm very glad people are discussing this topic more and more, especially young people! It's a good thing to be aware of and learn more about.

[@unionpacific3863]

The ones who hate girly things actually lose the point It wasn't the feminite trait and things the oppresion, no, it was because women were forced to be that way. And with that actitude they aren't breaking the mold, they are changing it for a new one

[@Marrianno]

Are hyperfeminine characters in hazbin hatel hated, though? Rozie is pretty much adored in fandom, Angel dust as drag gueen/feminine gay is videly praized in fandom. Dont know about someone like Emily, but aside from her underdevelooment i havent seen people hating on her. Carmila is also really maternal and feminine, aswell asgraceful balerina, and i havent seen people hating on her all that much.

[@juandiegotorres9632]

The answer: feminism. It is a crusade against the traditional

[@kishi_K0]

3:02 tbh tht not suprising to me women can be sexist to women. for example my boss who is a woman said tht women shouldnt seek financial stability and dont need support themsleves since all they have to do is find a man who can do all tht for them yea... also how tf they can hate on katara? go travel with kids while also being a kid and try taking care of all of them. these crybabies will break in a few minutes if not less. level of mental fortitude tht katara had as a child was way beyand their comrehension

[@gingerjelly]

Who the hell hates Katara and where do I find them?

[@boonAlina]

It was mostly years ago, the hate has faded by a lot since then.

[@resdent2922]

Something that makes this even more complex is when you take into account different cultural beliefs too. What may be considered masculine or feminine in one culture may be the opposite in a totally different one. For example, there was a time in ancient Roman culture when pants were seen as strictly for women only. Another is how high heels (at least in Europe) used to be seen as men's wear. Even the idea of what certain tasks were for which gender can vary (cooking, politics, etc.). With this in mind, the idea of what makes something or someone masculine or feminine is more complicated than most people realize.

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

I am very sure pants were considered barbarian clothes in rome {they preferred tunics} And the reason for why something was considered musclin or fem is always the same. Men regarded heels as manly because the use of them in horse riding and to increase hight. Which is very different from why women wear it today

[@resdent2922]

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl Pants were considered barbarian clothes in Rome only when they were seen being worn by men. This is because of the non-Roman peoples doing this with that type of clothing, who the Romans tended to think were backwards in their ways. You could say they thought the men of those other cultures were "less manly" because of it. And even if the high heels thing had more of a purpose back then, the point still stands in a way. The idea of what makes something more masculine or feminine still varies across the world. Here's another example. For a long time (even in America), art was considered more of something done by men and men only. Meanwhile, works done by women tended to get rejected more often because it wasn't seen as a proper/appropriate occupation for them to do. This led to many women struggling as starving artists for most of their lives. Those that we do know of (before they started becoming more common/accepted) had gone through a lot of hardship to be recognized.

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

@@resdent2922 that is my point, the ideas behind musclinty and femininity don't change but their expression can change. And what is your point about art? Art isn't regarded as a feminine thing today Also pants were worn by gauls and the people around them and Romans never thought of them as lacking in musclinty. For the Romans the gauls were very manly while the Greeks and middle Easterns were soft "fem boys"

[@resdent2922]

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl I never said it was strictly a feminine thing. I said it was at least considered at one point only a masculine thing in some places back then. And I never said the Romans "always" thought pants were a feminine thing either. I said "for a time" with this one as well. And even then, you have to take into account what was "barely tolerated" vs what was "discarded out of mutual respect." Battles, trading, ethical beliefs, etc., these all can effect how different cultures see each other. But that doesn't mean a person entirely changes on a personal level just like that from everything they grew up learning. They just get better at recognizing that some things are different with other people and that's okay. They'll do them. It can be quite an interesting difference between viewing someone who practices an entirely different culture from you, and someone who is from the same culture as you and doing things opposite of it. Even if it's unfair, it's still a done thing even today. Hypocritical? Yes. Real life though? Sadly, also yes.

[@boonAlina]

Apparently pink used to be a very masculine color back in the ye old English days

[@Twhf7228]

I'm on the side that claims that this is a writing issue and not a gender one. Going with Ninjago, the only reason why I dislike Vania is simply because she doesn't seem to have that much to her character in the story; does she have a struggle to solve? something to change about her or her mindset? Doesn't seem to be the case, and that's my problem with her: she doesn't have a purpose in the story outside of being Cole's failed love interest (and I say failed because that little plotline went nowhere). And as for Akita, Nya, Pixal and Skylor: out of these 4, I prefer Nya the most simply because there's more nuance to her character. Pixal had a great evolution since S3 but feels kinda stale in the 11-minute seasons. Akita's backstory is pretty cool, but considering she only appears in the ice chapter, there isn't much to her character outside of that arc. And as for Skylor, well, same with Vania, only difference is she had a role plot wise in the two seasons she was a vital character and that her thing with Kai did go somewhere.

[@jayfranco2383]

Charlie and Amy could have been Beloved characters but the biggest problem is that they over exaggerated there personality,too quirky,too typical pixie dream girl, they're practically one dimensional to the point that they're annoying (Im saying the same for Charlie because her development wasn't bas but also was not enough for most to really take her seriously) Not all Feminine Character's are hated or dismissed,one of which ,Rarity from My little pony,she was a Feminine character,the reason she's appreciated and loved by fan's is because she was well develope and the show gave her many strength's while maintaining being feminine

[@shonnaa7117]

This exact same problem goes to modern Disney Princess, especially when it comes to this quirky and adorkable traits. And that love or romance will make the characters "weak".

[@jayfranco2383]

@@shonnaa7117 Can you please specify what makes the Disney princess "Weak" is it just by romance and love?

[@shonnaa7117]

@@jayfranco2383 Well, it's just that Disney now believes that having a love interest or any support will the princess weaker and that women should do things by themselves. That's why they got rid of the Star Boy from Wish because "romance is bad" to them.

[@jayfranco2383]

@@shonnaa7117 That makes sense,they really ruined what made Disney or most animated from different companies shows theses day's into complete disaster,most,since some did do well Not good writing can make bad influence often times on audiences so it's quite the same that is affecting Hazbin Hotel I'm saying (not good) instead of bad because the show has quite missed potential,but at least manages to the best it can go Thank you for answering my question 👍

[@CanadianKomodo]

I’d say its because they usually just aren’t as entertaining to watch. But maybe also because the writers aren’t as good at writing super feminine characters.

[@octav1600]

I quite like Vanya, and I love Charlie Morningstar. Never saw Legend of Cora, but I always loved Kitara more, maybe because of the element - water is my jam. But in all fairness, Charlie has a lot of competition for being a good character and so little time in the series. I am sure this will change with the next season.

[@georgeprchal3924]

Korra thinks water bending is for nerds, fire is her element.

[@ТарасМакаренко-ф3ш]

I’ve been a fan of East Asian anime for many years, and it’s a revelation to me that it turns out that someone, somewhere can hate feminine (in body or character) heroine. What? How? Where? I've never seen such madness! Where have you seen this? Apart from the woke society, I have not seen this anywhere . Maybe you should stop communicate with them? And start contact with normal people?

[@arminsenpai]

The outro gave me whiplash as the biggest pogo fan who ever walked the earth and never seeing anyone else be a pogo enjoyer

[@boonAlina]

To be fair, it's like the only Pogo song I know lol

[@arminsenpai]

@boonAlina look up his song Jadore Juin, that one is one of my top 20

[@SechsVerehrer3-qd9fu]

Who tf hates Katara?

[@cossodummy188]

I didnt started hating feminine things till after my dad yelled at my 13 year old sister. that he will disown her if she came to his house. I was only 8 at the time. I dont remember her crying her eye out but i do remember the story of my step mom saying she couldn't wear make-up till she was 16. Witch started the no make-up thing. But now the story has change where she wore make-up as a child to hide brusie and marks. And they dont remember any of that happening. So no apologies. So femininity felt like a life or death situation for me subconsciously. And sadly i still cant stand it when people say i do act feminine. I know, just ignore it and let me suffer in my hypocrisy.

[@boonAlina]

I just don't like wearing makeup in general, but not cuz it's girly, but cuz I don't wanna have to rely on makeup to make me pretty. But yeah I'm sorry you went through that. My father sucked too. He was and still is a narcissist. I have bad trauma from the times he'd yell at me

[@cossodummy188]

@boonAlina thanks and i get you. I just hate the feeling of that oily powder on my face. Dont know how people put that on and not scratch it off. And its wasnt just dad. Step mom was the biggest problem. She didnt want to raise someone else kids. But wanted dad to rasie hers. Glad mom got dad to snip snip after me. Ill be forever his last creation.

[@yp2gr_9Wz89Qz3]

I have to admit that I didn't notice that (or maybe I heard of it earlier but forgot? Idk) Thank you for this video Ngl I am quite tomboyish, but I sometimes embrace my feminine side, I don't hate it Also, regarding to your channel description's last sentence... same sis, same...

[@boonAlina]

You also have a relatively medium voice that makes ppl think you're a 12 to 13 yr boy?

[@yp2gr_9Wz89Qz3]

@@boonAlina yuup