WHY IS INVOKER A MASTERPIECE

[@STDRACO777]

Showing my age here but OG Invoker came out when I was in high school. Before dota 2. I had a printed-out page with all his spells . he had far more than 10

[@HentaiSpirit]

27 to be exact, because the orb's order also mattered 😂

[@سورنامهرابی-ف8ش]

3×3×3=27

[@WEIRDxGRIM]

Yea i heard of that, but icefrog wanted to make him playable for most people and not be gamebreaking with people casting 27 spells in just a few sec.

[@xicheeal]

there's a dota mod which lets you play the old invoker Idk how to use the mod but I watched baumi played the mod

[@anterozevallos4281]

Nisiquiera se podia seleccionar de forma natural, te tenia que tocar a travez de la selección aleatoria.

[@Codigoduro1]

Invoker is peak design An awesome hero that is only overpowered if you have the adequate skill and top awareness...which means absolute rewarding game play.

[@luishurtado2170]

I wish more heroes were high skill (mechanical, awareness, etc.) = high reward. More often than not mechanical skills are not enough... a braindead bristleback can own a game by essentially doing the same thing over and over, spam quills OR a braindead huskar almost always win lanes by default cause attack modifiers not pulling aggro...🤬

[@dimboss7720]

I mean, the higher the MMR, the more ppl know how to counter them. People just don't want to buy various items that are mostly going against their main build.

[@Canoweissmon]

And still he's not overpowered. Or at least he is as overpowered as 90% of the dota 2 heroes.

[@doriangrayest]

@@luishurtado2170 90% of dota heroes are braindead easy to play compared to the hardest 10%. Huskar and Bristle also are lane dominators but scale to a pile of crap with the same item that your pos1 should get asap

[@tete5011]

​@@luishurtado2170 Tinker was one of them, but Gaben decided to kill him

[@adiveler]

Fun fact: The old Invoker had 27 spells, decided not only by which orbs you are using, but also by their orders (which is 27 different combinations)!

[@Andytlp]

Damn i cba to memorize the simple qwe combinations. The order of them would be nuts

[@zloybojok]

decided not only by which orbs you are using, but also by their orders... so exactly like it is in dota 2? He has 10 spells only because they left only 3 at each starter (q/w/e) + qwe as it easy to remember and use without having to make a character with 30 own spells as it's hard and op to both use and fight against. Invoker was always about order of his orbs.

[@adiveler]

@@zloybojok Not exactly, order matter means that qww ≠ wqw ≠ wwq, each of them would result in a different spell. In modern Invoker - all three of them would result in Ghost Walk.

[@carlorielmendez6505]

27 permutations. 3 slots/members of 3 possible items have 10 combinations and 27 permutations max.

[@stormblaze26]

But I like how they scrapped that idea. 27 spells with no synergy among them, which made Invoker lame back then. Hahaha.

[@ignazioacerenza9881]

I think the beauty of invoker is that the mechanical act of queueing the orbs correctly and the encyclopedic knowledge required to know the combinations by heart to play him effectively alligns pretty much with the imagined feeling of being a battle mage. It's grounded in a way that is very rewarding and rewards good flow wth satisfying loops.

[@PsychoMachado]

Imagine how it was back in the days each ability was on a different hotkey

[@luishurtado2170]

@@PsychoMachado you mean legacy keys? I still use that 😐

[@emmandiaz3495]

I wanna try and learn to play invoker but he seems extremely hard to use😐😭

[@PsychoMachado]

@@emmandiaz3495 Honestly, go for it. You don't have to use all 10 spells, so get comfortable with a couple of combos and you're good. You prepare Tornado (WWQ) into Meteor (EEW). Start the fight with Tornado, then you hit QWER to swap Tornado for Deafening Blast. Then you cast Meteor on the people about to land and Deafening Blast once they hit the ground so they are pushed with the meteor. If you want to expand from there, You can use Cold Snap(QQQ) to lock down a support or anyone without a BKB or you can use EMP (WWW) to force the enemy to disengage. That's already 5 spells you learned to use during teamfights that don't require that much input, since Deafening Blast, Cold Snap and EMP are pretty easy to input, and you have your combo starters already invoked (with Tornado being invoked first so it's swapped out first). You don't need to think much about Ice Wall (QQE), Alacrity (WWE) , Forged Spirits (QEE), Ghost Walk (QQW) or Sun Strike (EEE) early on. Just get comfortable with the first 5. Once you learn those, you add in another one (recommend learning Ghost Walk then because it's a life saver) until you get all of them

[@earladrianlledonim9711]

​@@emmandiaz3495 you can focus on a specific skill build for easier use like quas wex, or exort wex builds.

[@sweetdreamsdotexe]

About gameplay design, I've never played Hwei so I can't talk about him but playing invoker surely feels like you always have the right tools for the job, the soft counter for every hero part couldn't be more true. He's not limitless but I do get carried away by his arrogance when I'm doing well with him. They got that arrogant personality in him completely right. I feel that I can always have a spell in my arsenal to overpower other inferior minds- I mean, other players XD

[@1InVader1]

In reality, usually 10 seconds after the fight you realize you forgot to use something with invoker. Be it spells or it items, there's always something - this is coming from a Magicka player btw. God help you if you play refresher Invoker.

[@cat4890]

then you run out of spells, but guess what? Invoker can deal decent auto attacks😂

[@reginaldmustardbacon5866]

Just like knowing every specific slur for every ethnic and niche geographic group

[@Sam_Aconitum]

hwei is like, invoker for newbies, his kit are easy to understand. i tried invoker back then and it hurts my head. on top of that, i tried playing him on both OG DoTA all stars and DoTA 2. invoker is way more painful in OG DoTA due to the how awkward his skill hotkets are. that wasnt present in DoTA 2 but he is still hard to play and i mostly manage to cast 2 spells, the meteor and the silence wave thingy ;-;

[@sushi_17]

​@@cat4890I'm out of spells but not out of options - Invoker with Parasma and Alacrity buff

[@ChucktheSpicyChicken]

Invoker teaches you how to play piano with your keyboard. Hwei makes it harder for you to use the spell you want.

[@rskrzz6233]

fr, by the time im done spamming invoker for a while, the top of my left hand is tired from how many keys you have to press during every match.

[@i_saidmeow2469]

Hwei difficulty is overrated compared to other champions. He's really easy compared to the average Riven combos, which requires animation cancels. All his damage spells have different uses (QQ for poke, QW for long range that deals more damage to CC'd/Isolated targets (EW will be your best friend if you want to hit this spell) and QE is for waveclear, so you can gain lane priority. Utility spells are situational, WQ is for gank setup/getting back to lane faster, WW is for shielding (which is barely any useful and very hard to find a situation where it can be useful) and WE is for more passives procs + Mana because he gets OOMed really fast before first item. For CC, EQ is a gtfo card against assasins, EW is for zoning or setting up QW, and EE is for teamfights or if you suck at the game and you can only do QW + EE Hwei is just Invoker if he wasn't Aphelios, which has 5 separate guns (like the orbs Invoker has), each having their own synergies, as you can carry 2 of them at once. All of them have a specific ammo count, putting the gun in the back of the rotation of the guns and getting the next one. In conclusion, imagine Invoker if he had 5 orbs, 2 slots for each combo cast, and can carry 2 at the time. In my opinion, Invoker is still king of difficulty and Aphelios/Hwei are nothing compared to Invoker

[@rusticonek1656]

@@i_saidmeow2469 i have 500 games on invoker i needed the first 100 to fast cast abilities the other 100 to understand good when and where to use those abilites, i played hwei i needed 2 games to learn spells and undertand when and where use them XD

[@doriangrayest]

@@rskrzz6233 you are just spamming QWE orbs out of habit because we both know Tinker or any mildly micro intensive hero has at least 10x actions per minute thanInvoker has.

[@nowaylater6950]

​@@i_saidmeow2469 Invoker is hardly hard. Most of LoL players consider him very easy though. If anything, the likes of Meepo and Chen is way harder

[@PsychoMachado]

Fun fact: Invoker was a Magus by the title Arsenal Magus. Rubick, the Grand Magus, comments on it when they meet in lane on the same team by saying "Invoker now, eh? No longer the Arsenal Magus?" I also remember seeing somewhere that Invoker was the only Magus that didn't care when Rubick threatened to kill a Magus and maybe he was the intended target of the threat.

[@NViEmdie]

Being GOOD at Invoker is dishing a lot of spells in quick succession. Being GREAT at Invoker is by knowing when to use your spells at the perfect moment. You summed everything up in the video and managed to tell everyone what Invoker truly is, a Jack of all Trades.

[@abhitejvelore]

I think what sets apart good invoker is they can play the hero how the game demands it. You can be a sneaky assassin with orchid and ghost walk terrorising the enemy. Or you can be the ultimate team fighter, going for scaling instead of orchid. A hero that is truly dependent mostly on levels rather than items. Also some of the absolute best invoker use only 20% of his kit most of the time. Because they use his kit like a scalpel, rather than just key smashing and hoping for the best.

[@NViEmdie]

@@abhitejveloreThis is what I was trying to convey on my second sentence. You expounded it way better than I could have. Thank you for that.

[@jirehtheprovider]

Or as Baumi Phillip Baumgart Says I. My own paraphrasing Invoker is the entire fucking storage.

[@sagenight3]

What i think makes hwei feel like imposter is that his "versatility" stems from artificial restrictions. You are just choosing which restriction to your ability is the least detrimental. Where as with invoker, his restrictions come from his versatility and not being able to choose everything. Hwei's design feels subtractive, Invoker's feels additive.

[@mazeenourek8580]

Well said🎉

[@fitisdead8029]

Iv played both but play more league. I really find invoker a much better design n every level. Firstly hwei has a visual design problem. All of his spells are paint. It doesn’t look skillful, it looks like a maniac splattering pain everywhere. He doesn’t paint a mouth to bite you or a meteor or anything, it’s all just splattering paint. It also means many of his abilities look the same. Whilst all of invokers abilities are very different and you can tell what’s being used. Even though dota champions lore by design are paper thin.. (Correct choice) I still find invoker more compelling. Arrogant obsessed wizard is better than sensitive twink.

[@XoLiTlz]

Dota Lore is strange yet great in its own way. The game takes place in a universe where the Ancients rewind time after each match to avoid being the loser. That means that all Dota games are canon. This also means that all cosmetic items are canon. In one reality, Drow was Luna's nemesis, killing and skinning her ride to make her garments. In another one, Invoker was an obsessed father who destroyed the universe to save his daughter. Some heroes and items have this aspect of lore tailored into them, such as Spectre and CK, who summoned themselves from another reality to battle, or PA's Arcana lore, which resulted in Spectre creation. This means everything in the game is canon, spanning all patches since the game's creation, all matches, all cosmetics, and every iteration of every hero, which is terrific.

[@yunico2319]

@@XoLiTlz the ultimate multiverse is the granad scheme, the minor scheme is every hero have their own story and their own connection to one another, which making this game have very very vast story

[@icariamcgordon358]

I used to have trouble to memorize them but Icefrog actually a genius : Forge spirit : 2 fire 1 ice because even they are mostly fire, they are still creature which made from water (liquid or whatever) Ice wall : 2 ice 1 fire. It look like mountain and every icy mountain (probably) have lava (fire) inside etc

[@tem8530]

yeah but in my mind fire = dmg ice = int and slow cause ice itself so forge spirit is dmging creature with intellect and ice wall is slowing and damaging wall so it make sense itself

[@yomamafat1014]

I color code the spells and the orbs. Tornado has more purple and little blue which means WWQ.

[@2474xyz]

it sounds bot stupid and smart

[@peerawitprachakul6793]

Fire=damage Ice= CC or have form (physical body) Storm=AOE or buff Fire fire fire = sun strike= do damage Fire fire ice = Ice wall = a form of ice that can slow and do damage Fire fire storm = meteor = aoe fire damage Ice ice ice = cold snap = cc Ice ice fire = forge spirit = damage unit Ice ice storm = ghost walk = buff that can slow and invis Storm storm storm = EMP = AOE Storm strom ice = tornado = AOE cc Storm storm fire = Alacrity = damage buff Ice storm fire = Deaf. Blast = AOE damage disarm

[@Acex2ron]

Great video! One thing you could add is also how Invoker's autoattacks are a core part of his "arsenal." In League, Hwei is classified as an artillery mage like Xerath, thus he's commonly played as a backline spell bot and his job is to just chuck spells behind his frontliner. You pretty much never need to autoattack as Hwei outside of the lane or farming as this would also expose you and your squishy self. In a low TTK game like League, this is the way to play Hwei optimally--and can be kind of boring to some people. And when your spells are on cooldown, you just wait for them to come back online and spam buy Ability Haste. In contrast, Invoker loses out on a lot of damage if he doesn't incorporate autoattacks. He is a universal hero and one of his facets does nothing but improve his autos. Even before these changes were implemented, triple exort Invoker would still hit surprisingly hard for a mage. And when your spells are on cooldown, you can still throw hands and put out decent damage. It really just adds to the idea that Invoker needs to use everything at his disposal to be able to push this hero to his limit.

[@ederofempires8793]

well, thats just false :D AA are a huge part of hweis kit thanks to his W-E. it's not only a tool to get the mana back, but also used to get ur passive onto the enemy. if you weave your AA correctly with ult, q and e you can procc hweis passive up to 3 times in one rotation on one target, instead of once, which you would get from only using spells. Thats one of the reasons why hwei consistently becomes quite oppressive at higher mmr in the hands of otps, while in lower elo it is often a coinflip between feast and famine.

[@Acex2ron]

@@ederofempires8793I must be facing shit Hweis then lmao, thanks for the info

[@abdush3268]

@@ederofempires8793 All of your abilities on Hwei have longer cast range than your AA, you should absolutely not get in AA range after laning phase unless you are already jumped on and want to utilize the extra passive proc in hopes of killing the enemy before they get to kill you.

[@dirkvanvelden8378]

yeah invoker with hex or orchard hits like a truck.

[@teo8446]

​@@abdush3268 Hwei is not meant to go toe to toe and chase people. Hwei thrives on being the one chased, Similar to Xayah, thats why he has movement and AA-amplify spells on him His optimal condition is having beefcake tanks peeling for him as you slowly back away while slinging spells (making you quite in-range to hit his autos as well) Again, similar to Xayah

[@jfojw21dfs9]

Invoker is a great hero but GOD I WISH NOBODY PICKS HIM in my bracket. Because these spells don't mean shit when you miss them!

[@luccavalentinw.fiorini2302]

Fr 😂😂😂 I managed to find 10 on almost 10 years in Dota who were actually really good with it.. probably mains or smurfs

[@jfojw21dfs9]

@@luccavalentinw.fiorini2302 And they like to pick him for POS4 or even POS5 and buy greedy items. It enrages me more than anything else.

[@shio5873]

I'd say I'm doing well in my bracket. probably 6 out of the match 10 match i dominate my lane, 3 match where it's even-ish, 1 match where i got dominated on my lane. it's easy to win your lane when you have gold/item advantage because you're hitting your Sunstrikes. also, I barely know how well people are playing him in my bracket because i almost always pick him lmao.

[@goaway7904]

his winrate is very bad at low ranks and it gets higher as mmr goes up

[@rusticonek1656]

@@luccavalentinw.fiorini2302 hi, here main invoker 500 games ahahaah the only problem is that to learn how to play it very good i needed 150 games and of those about 120 were lost so my wi nrate is something like 50.5% XD

[@quacks69420]

Invoker = Mozart

[@doriangrayest]

IMO classic composers are more related to micro intensive heroes, specially if they have different roles, like Brewmaster ult or Chen's creeps and require a lot of rehearsal and prep time but is worth it Invoker would be a classic instrument musician, perfecting his repetetitive repertoire to perfection, like Tinker or some really farm intensive pos1 with their timings While Rubick and Morphling are jazz musicians that need to know how to improvise in any situation on the spot

[@benedictjajo]

Invoker is peak design, no moba will ever come close to replicating him unless they literally copy his every move set

[@cloudwalls5782]

OG invoker was made by Guinsoo. The guy behind League. He was broken af at launch with 20+ permutative spells. Icefrog balanced it to what it is known today. Guinsoo literally told heroes like Invoker were a knowledge barrier and therefore wouldn't be in league but here we are today.

[@himikojou5111]

Honestly I would love a game playing as someone like Invoker but with all 27 permutations. Quite literally a skill thing, eh

[@TrollFaceLaunch0]

He has a point tho. Character being heavy on knowledge checks doesn't make him cool or interesting (remember that rewarding knowledge =/= rewarding skill). It's good to see he learned his lesson

[@moust9685]

@@himikojou5111 TBH most of the other 17 were kinda useless it basically narrowed down to how much damage you want to deal or how frequent.

[@tilting_cat3344]

​​@@himikojou5111it was funny when he met pugna,any spell used zap him for 1k dmg on a hero mostly with 3k hp

[@justadentify]

Invoker and Meepo are peak character design in video game industry.

[@yazuky]

i've never played Dota but this video was super fun, sending love from Chile :)

[@Nia_dota]

Well edited, great pacing, thoroughly and clearly explained. You make it seem so obvious now (not that I play League or Hwei tbf). This was a great video.

[@Ajdmfiwbwfj]

Stumbled upon this video thanks to the algo. I have been playing Dota since WC3 days and LoL for a brief period from 2013 to 2016. I can say that the kind of players Dota and League attracts are two absolutely different types. I would say that League is way more "family friendly" by design, even now watching current League content I can see that their DNA is to make characters as easy to digest as possible. Dota on the other hand, does not give you training wheels. Similar to learning programming, you have to learn so many concepts and the initial early player experience can be quite overwhelming. But it is definitely a lot more rewarding and I still will deviate to Dota every time as you're rewarded for learning game mechanics and putting in time to get good at it. You can see the sheer skill difference between different ranks purely on how higher ranked players understand more and more of the game's concept better. (SEA servers are still full of trash though haha) I think the design of Dota to sum it up is "if everything is overpowered, then everything is balanced" whereas League's design is leaning more towards "every character needs to fit their archetype in order for us to balance the game". Hence why Hwei is design to be a generic mage and Invoker even though he is a POS 2, can be played as POS 1 to 5 even in Pro Tourneys. Good video nonetheless.

[@pedroferreiraconstantino]

also tornado does a simple dispell on the enemy, removing effects of skills, buffs and runes...

[@sethmamintod2373]

It's a cool comparison because invoker doesn't have skills that are similar to other heroes in DotA while with Hwei you can clearly see similarities from other champs

[@salous428]

Every lol ability is a skillshot, they all look the same

[@doriangrayest]

QQQ= Enigma Malefice QQW= any invis QQE= Jakiro's Q and E WWW=any illusion hero with diffusal WWE= Bloodlust from Ogre WWQ= Euls or any setup disable EEE= skillshot zeus ult EEQ = Beastmaster's summons, or Visage's EEW= any AoE ult like Jakiro''s QWE= Huskar's Q ability

[@MrNatsuDragneel]

​@@doriangrayest QQW invisible and healing, before inv movebonus and aura slow the enemy, cold wall is more Treant grasp or Brood aghanim. Copy of Huskar Invoker has defensive blast since dota 1, huskar has healing, burning spear and damage and attack speed for life lost a few years ago, only a few years ago he changed his healing to be together with his passive and changed the first for inner fire.

[@doriangrayest]

@@MrNatsuDragneel No invoker uses Ghost Walk for healing, just use Quas orbs. The ms bonus is cool but the aura, in my opinion, is just a Dust alarm for the enemy team, a huge troll. Ice wall is better than both skills but specially the garbage brood aghs. And I know the history of Huskar. As a meepo spammer, deafening blast was a huge problem if I didnt win early because the disable was very long and I just couldnt believe Huskar got lvl 25 Talent Boosted DeafBlast for free by lvl 7. (then meepo got all his braindead broken aghanim shard and scepter and life was easy again)

[@loderteches7321]

​@@doriangrayest qqw is actually used to regain mana and hp, i assume you either dont play dota or are slow(quas orbs don't regen shit for almost half a year already) qqe is definetly not jakiro q and e because 1) it is an object on map, not a projectile 2) it lasts for 12 SECONDS!!! 3) it serves a different purpouse. You can kinda compare it to new jakiro's aghanim but it came out 10 years later than invoker's wall www is not the diffusal, it takes 30 over 50 hits from 1 illusion to 1 hero(5 hits each to each hero if you have 10 illusions) to burn the same amount that emp burns in it's range to everyone, and it also pulls the enemy in with shard making it also a control spell eee serves different purpouse, unlike zeus ult that gives out every players position and is used to get map control and used to have a guaranteed kill on low hp unless they have magic damage shield like glimmer enemy sunstrike cant kill a person without info about their position, cant be beaten by invisibility, is a skillshot(not the only difference huh?) qwe is not huskars ability for over half a year, again you are very slow which is ok for low mmr player so there you have it, you are completly wrong on 4/9 spells and kinda wrong on 2 more spells, wwe also gives damage which is crucial for many interactions and you provided bad analogy with jakiro q and e although he has ability that is kinda sililar to slow wall with aghanim. Also eew is not a aoe ability but a nuke more like a puck's orb but there are really similar alternatives so i wont count it as being incorrect. Do better.

[@lev3271]

A ONE OF THE GREATEST VIDEO ON KZbin ABOUT A MOBA's AND ABOUT INDUSTY

[@stanleykassim2839]

100% Agree. Games made by fans tend to hit the mark more. As gamers, the DOTA devs know what gamers want. As corporate clowns, the LOL devs know jack squat.

[@ufuk5872]

They ran out of hero concept from the stolen allstar forum.

[@awesomepsume]

Some champs are better than others when it comes to having a cohesive idea. But given the far more accessible way league plays, it's actually suprising how much each champs kits match to the lore and idea of the champ. There is artistic integrity in the base champ design and gameplay idea synchronicity. However, the gameplay itself is aggrovatingly stilted, with simple champs and difficult champs almost randomly being strong. You could play the most technical champ the most impressive way, and still lose, and play the easiest champ the least skillful way and win, just as much as you could just learn one combo on Hwei, win lane, and snowball you lead to a win, and just as much play Yuumi and win based on the design of the champ. The champs themselves are very well designed, but the game they're in is very unreliable and lame most of the time.

[@rayoscrost]

​@@awesomepsumeso you're saying hwei is well designed?

[@awesomepsume]

@@rayoscrost I've said exactly enough information to extrapolated what I feel is true about Hwei's design.

[@rayoscrost]

@@awesomepsume so you say hwei is well designed, okay.

[@vikliss6538]

as invoker main with more than 2k games i appreciate you giving my boy the respect he deserves

[@Crowmeir]

What I like about Invoker is that he tries to describe or explain his invoked abilities when he casts it. It just shows so much of his character

[@freyrkratos]

Not just that invoker has 10 skills, but if you also bought 6 items with each of them having active effects, with additional aghanims and shard, it is really a chaos

[@Spectral-stories16]

Not only you have 10 different spells to use but you also want to juggle your orbs effectively. Want to ego fight a carry hero? Use 3 exort to out damage them you need a bit more attack speed? Use 3 wex. maybe you want to balance your dmg and atk speed? How about 2 exort and 1 wex. Want to heal up fast to join the fight again? Use quas. You want to regen while dealing dmg? Use 2 quas and 1 exort. Plus dont forget that most of invoker's item builds are active. Blink dagger, shiva's guard, boots of travel/power threads, eul's scepter, force staff, and many more. You can build him as a support like topson did, or you can build him like a carry/mage build like miracle does or maybe you wanna build it like a mid that can always be around the map like how w33 does.

[@potato_97]

Agreed! keep up the great vids🔥

[@wizbomboclat]

Hi Annov I'm making a moba of my own and I really appreciate this kind of videos, keeps me aware of how different people play this kind of games

[@Trqiz]

ohhh can u show your progress ?

[@abogmus8904]

please make progress videos on youtube, i'm very interested in your though process

[@DarpzisLeLouch]

Bro for real? Can we see it?

[@annov]

Best of Luck!

[@aquiledelrosa]

Im doing one too, good luck bro, we need to rise to fuck riot

[@rafola_1]

LoL player here, Invoker is for sure an insane design and it has a lot of subtilities but the thing with hwei is just how league works, his gimmick is the 3 different abilities in each key, it would be crazy if he could cast 10 abilities. Also, the mana regen on w is bc his abilities require a huge mana amount, so you would run out of mana in every rotation for probably 10 minutes every game.

[@neisfron6656]

I completely agree with this video, i started on DotA on WC3, played Invoker and other mage-like heroes, then transitioned to LoL when eventually DotA "died" With Hwei launch, i instantly thought of Invoker, but couldn't keep the laugh of how "simple" he looks, he was advertised and portraited as a "HUGE ARSENAL" "GIGA MAGE", ended up being a bootleg Brand-Xerath, and made me want to queue up on Dota 2 with the real arsenal mage. Little detail i do like of Hwei's character, while Invoker lets his arrogance be seen with his gameplay, and playerbase specially, Hwei does the same, but with a disturbed and tantrum meanor, his gameplay is just smashing every ability fast enough to one-shot any champion in range, be on screen range with his really long abilities, or in melee by gap-closing with Flash. Like he does with his paintings, he slaps and slashes painting over a canvas, its a neat detail, tho Hwei IS inferior to Invoker, by accident, it makes a perfect example of a mage who *THINKS* is the big deal, but it's just slamming spells randomly till works. Just like not-so skilled Invoker players.

[@vorpalcheezit6844]

Nothing quite matches the feeling of ripping off a huge epic combo with a tornado, flaming meatballs, an EMP blast, an orbital laser, a wall of ice, and an omnidirectional shockwave...then mashing Refresher Orb to do it again.

[@legionnaire97]

The feeling of finally doing it in one fluid motion is quite rewarding. i have seen people in pubs spending hours in training mode just to be able to do the 3 or 4 spell combo only to completely lose composure in the actual game. Invoker is a hero for a player who is either truly talented or a pure sweatlord.

[@sweetdreamsdotexe]

Answering your question about design: You chose Hwei if you daydream about "hot" characters from video games. I hate the constant appeal to cuteness and sexyness and whatever in the art industry but I do get why they keep doing it, because people like it. I have a bunch of friends who play a certain character because they look cute or hot or how they would marry them or whatever. Like "I wouldn't play Malphite because he is ugly". M'dude, that mf is a rock. In my opinion, Grimstroke has way better design, but I try not to judge people who like other designs because of cuteness and stuff.

[@Elldar111]

Grimstroke looks badass Hwei looks like depressed gay painter

[@HentaiSpirit]

league of supermodels

[@tysfalsehood]

But both Invoker and Hwei are extremely hot...

[@cloudynguyen6527]

@@tysfalsehood one is Asian twink, the other is blonde nerd. Pick your favorite >:)

[@Dreadthrone]

grim has better lore, he throws his dead wife to people, sometime twice

[@JetBlack708]

I played invoker back in wc3 dota. Although i wasn't very good at the game, I still remember the first time I landed a tornado meteor defeaning blast combo and one-shotting someone, so satisfying.

[@unknownweeb1996]

I subscribed to you and liked this video because: 1. Its Invoker, and I main Invoker. 2. I see god Miyazaki in the video.

[@soulsmos2318]

An absolutely great example at the end.

[@HasiburRahim]

invoker is a peak game hero from character to a design he is just HIM

[@hellothere9167]

This video about to blow up, once arcane s2 is over

[@christiannoelneo7991]

Nice informative video. I guess you could've showed more tho how invoker queues his spells on keyboard and how many buttons you actually need to press.

[@superpatoreviews8167]

LOL's Hwei is quite versatile, being able to be a Mid or a Support. Dota 2's Invoker can be anything if you're good enough and have a good memory.

[@vulpex4105]

But lots of mages in league can also play support. Its not versatile its just weakness in game design. LoL has a rigid mindset with defined roles and still champions sometimes just jump roles and break the meta forcing austere nerfing practices. Dota is designed around versatility so any hero can wind up doing anything depending on how well they do in game and what items they choose to buy. Invoker fits in his own game and Hwei does too, he is just boring in execution is all

[@melonelon7590]

But please do not pick him as offlaner.

[@Gnomestomper]

@@melonelon7590 tornado meme hammer offlane, good times.

[@Azarel410]

bad thing about LoL is Riot games always nerfing the champions 2nd role and making them unplayable. They´re totally against multirole champions and that's a shame

[@norucelezia1915]

@@melonelon7590 with Invo now being universal I think it's too late for that I've seen Invokers tanking the enemy team with 5k hp. Ofc, given the low bracket I am in.

[@lalmuansangakhawlhring677]

Invoker and Hwei. Even the name is disgustingly next level to the other

[@sayori1989]

Euls is great on invoker, makes landing combos easy and you can preserve tornado. When I played that was my first item

[@maosama3695]

haven't played dota for years now , forgot how fun it was.

[@anjouseina9375]

I still remember, old Invoker has 27 spells.

[@stardustpal-thestarguardia3858]

Invoker is the mechanical masterpiece and maybe the hardest hero to play in any moba because we need to add the fact that invoker also uses items and has new combo with some of them. Scepter and shard change his abilities, scythe of vyse, eul scepter, etherial blade, blink dagger, so many items that make Invo even harder. Fun to play and overpowered af when it's on the right hands

[@melonelon7590]

Ubisoft catching strays man. I can't. lol.

[@kyunana2095]

Not to mention with items like Vyse, Orchid, Euls, Etc. You basically have at most 18 spells at your disposal in an engagement.

[@ederofempires8793]

Gotta say, the comparison is pretty biased. Now don't get me wrong, i agree that invoker is more creative (especially for his release date back when i played dota1 during highschool) and propably more fun when mastered, but hwei is definetly also a really well designed champion. You glossed over his spells, saying they were all pretty similair and ripp offs of other champions abilitys, but completly ignored the special parts of the different abilities. For example: Q-Q deals max-hp % bonusdmg, so it is for shredding tanks and bruisers. It also hits a lot faster, but can get intercepted. Q-W deals a hefty amount of bonusdmg to isolated or cced targets, but with a large delay, so it combos extremly well with your own E-spells and friendly cc-chains. Q-E is a massive area-slow, which apart from being for wave clear, is a very important tool for zoning enemy champions. Without that, hwei as a atillery-mage would just fall dead over to most divers/assassins. W-E gives him mana back, ok, but it also can get combined with his spells like Q-E, so you hit everybody in your slow at the cost of only one of your 3 charges. (extremly important for waveclear) But even more importantly you can trigger your passive more often if you juggle autoattacks with W-E and your spells. Also saying hweis W-W shield is like ekkos shield is about the same as saying invokers cold snap is like clockwerks battery assault. Those are pretty much completly different spells apart from 1 attribute both pairings got in common. Same goes for the other ability comparisons. Last but not least, the cooldown thing. Thanks to the cd the difficulty in playing hwei is the splitsecond decisionmaking of when to use which version of your 3 base spells for the optimal outcome. invoker doesn't have that metric of difficulty, since he can use all of his abilities, as long as the player has them all memorized and is mechaniclly able to pull that off. Something that hwei players only have to deal with in a lot simpler version. Pretty big difference in their core-design, but a much needed one for hwei. Had he been designed more like invoker, he'd propably just ended up in pro-jail balancingwise, only being played by the absolute top players and otps while being undertuned for the majority of the playerbase like kalista and ryze.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Yeah, this was an imbalanced video.

[@idontlikeyou.7192]

hwei is boring and designed for degens who thinks being depressive and sad is okay thing also, there's no difference in mid-late behind ur Q spells, since most of the time u use either EQ QQ R(in literally any order, it doesnt even matter) with W E before it, or u use Q E in teamfights for aoe slow. Anything in between is just spamming QW and EW, sometimes pressing WQ for ur team to regroup/engage/move around the map from sidelanes and yep, his visual effects are bad af.

[@Bananaboi6969]

Hitting sunstrike on a low hp enemy as they reach base and killing them is one of the satisfying things.

[@fifofuko1864]

Voker is one or the most perfectly designed video game characters

[@sorrynotsorry3264]

Playing invoker is like playing through the fire and flames in guitar

[@sigvilmana3925]

I would add, that actually all of incoker spells besides ghost walk deals damage, just low amount of it. So when you deal the damage you also need to use every spell (in many situations) but you make youself exposed while them on cooldown so you can also think about spell economy in exchange for damage

[@janitraaradeaputra1750]

The real reason of Hwei ever existed "oh really? we also have a hero with 100 skills"

[@bongalberttio318]

What I learned is that Hwei is designed to be restricted in his versatility. Meanwhile Invoker is designed for adapting within restriction in order to reach versatility

[@dantecastrodes5266]

Invoker went through a lot of iterations since he was released in dota 1, then to dota 2. I still remember that you can only use your spells after you hit lvl 6, because you need to be lvl 6 to lvl up invoke spell, and you can't cast spells without invoke so u can only lvl up ur orbs in the first 8-10 mins. of the game, then they change it so you can lvl up invoke when you are lvl 1 or 2?, then they change it again so that you already have invoke when you start the game and you just need to worry about what 2 combination of orbs are you going to build in early games....Since Hwei is a new hero they can change his spell mechanics or revamp his spells if they want him to be a viable hero in game, they can test or have as many iterations so that it will be a unique but playable hero,

[@agaouaislam8725]

Man wants to destroy league balance even more than it is😂

[@chainsmoker97]

Not for nothing is Invoker above the Arsenal Magus, he is The Invoker

[@Captain1nsaneo]

Ah yes, Grimstroke, the hero who throws his wife at you.

[@kinshozaku7906]

Concept of Invoker amaze me so much

[@JuanCarlos-qr9gd]

"Invoker feels like you're playing the ultimate mage" that's so spot on, is a really fun hero that takes your decision making to the next level, knowing which spells to use is pretty hard, keeping track of the cds of your abilities is also hard, not even considering positioning and all other stuff you usually also do with other heroes.

[@YOLO-ww1so]

Agree, when I managed to land my first nonstop combo in war as invoker, I really thought I AM THE ARSENAL MAGUS. It's so rewarding and satisfying.

[@thinhsuynhuoc]

Remember, invoker for the last 6 years has had almost no reworks and major patch changes. Hes that good and balanced.

[@ohihassan693]

Riot just wanted something like invoker that's all. They don't understand why invoker is called Invoker.

[@i_saidmeow2469]

We've joked that we need a chart of Hwei's spells, but Invoker is a whole another level

[@clintdivino3435]

The best thing about Invoker is that he is the epitome of "everything can work" in Dota. From Pos 1 to Pos 5, Invoker can do them all, as long as you have a mind as creative and borderline insane like his. Hell, he can even do auto-attack damage builds while still having the option of being a flexible spellcaster, which can be pretty satisfying when you outdamage the enemy carry by your right-clicks alone

[@sorrynotsorry3264]

Yeah he can be a summoner too. Your forge spirits melting enemy's armor while under the effect of cold snap

[@DušanTransportiZorić]

Cause he is a beacon of knowledge blazing across a black sea of ignorance.

[@i3looi2]

To be fair, invoker had the community advantage. The hero was incepted on the dota1 forums. People gathered and came up with ideas and icefrog/eul polished the hero.

[@cocoachocolates]

Of course is a masterpiece. All of dota 2 heroes before Monkey King all from dota warcraft made base on Blizzard art.

[@maero1557]

I agree, you could clearly feel the shift when they had no Dota 1 heroes left to introduce and had to design new ones. While still quite well designed, you can see they are taking lots of notes from LOL. Every new hero has at least one skillshot, and most of the spells are AoE. I absolutely loathe the "hit 4 autoattacks to achieve [X] effect" on heroes like Monkey King, they even gradually change some old heroes to be like this (e.g. Abaddon).

[@doriangrayest]

@@maero1557 yes, the Dark Willow+Pango update really showed how insane things would get

[@contayt2023]

Invoker main here. 100% fun playing invoker. It take time to "master". I never mastered, but have 60% win rate and can do the most combos with ease.

[@doriangrayest]

and be honest: your winrate is 70% being a good midlaner and dota player and 30% invoker combos

[@loyh5269]

doesnt matter if the game is dead.

[@raflyarafat4882]

Dota is about creativity and LoL is about 1v1. That's why there's a lot of OP heroes in dota and invoker is the peak design, only limited by what you can do. Meanwhile if you apply invoker's opness to hwei, you get not just the best 1v1, but possibly a 1v5 monster every game.

[@sorrynotsorry3264]

Miracle used him and never died in one of the TI's

[@MrDarkNao]

That lavaflow is just Vel'koz W.

[@cloudverse9668]

playing invoker is like harmony every instrument(spells) are decent., but if you put them on top of each other they make more than sum of their value. simply mixing 2 instruments is good, but you can also make quartet or huge orchestra but this imposter’s spells are just the sum of their value and it’s not even unique. what a joke there are huge amount of more possibility if you put some items, which league don’t have my last league game was years ago but im sure they don’t have items like blink or eul(don’t even talk about hourglass) or e-blade or refresher

[@Gojiradogzillagodzilla]

I remember when i first tried invoker in dota 2. It was an hour long match and i left that game with a headache because it was SOOO demanding, trying to remember and execute all of his combos properly. But whenever i DID hit a combo in game? Man, i never felt so SATISFIED. You FEEL how well all the spells blend together to make something GREATER. When i first tried Hwei, though? Champ's just generic. Id keep spamming Orianna than thouch Hwei again.

[@chocomallows4946]

WWQRX+EEWRD+ QWERB hahaha cannot be erased in my memory even i quit in that game for almost 10 years and play League. the best hero skill set of all time for me

[@Spiderrtank]

Invoker becomes many times more complex once item builds are accounted for... Just look at the many Refresher Orb Invoker plays out there... Now that's a spell slinging Magus

[@davidcassion2495]

Invoker is basically an All around mage you can basically build him like a marksman,but hwei is simply a support mage

[@doncomedia7927]

-Invoker giving problems - *Viper enters the chat*

[@nikolaswantroba]

What do you think about Aphelios?

[@melishidiao7148]

That 3 ability hwei is enough to kill an enemy 😂

[@ArishVanNikon]

Hwei = Chinese name Character design = Femboy with a degree in gender studies who happens to be an artist. Invoker = An ancient and high ranking mage title(A literal walking library, hence the title) Character design = A majestic elf oozing with power to the point where his eyes became all white This is why I never played lol, game's character design is all over the place, it also has a weird obsession with "cute" and plastic surgery characters, way too far compared to dota 2, character archetype = proper voice lines to archetypes, if it looks weird and lovecraftian, character design and voice acting also matches. I know these things are very little, but this bothers me a lot especially in moba, artists aren't really doing art, they're just trying to please whatever audience they're targeting.

[@junaspalms]

thats the sad truth sexbait = popular = money

[@fusion6343]

Seriously Lol becoming LGBT now, new champs are mostly Gay, yah they support LGBT but atleast make a good lore about them, it's like force lore

[@jik9401]

Coming back to this video since Kez is released now 😂

[@grumpyplays5886]

possibilities aren't endless it is limited and all of it gets countered by a simple force staff. INVO players coping

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Or BKB lul.

[@NormalHatter]

@@HighLanderPonyYT To be fair, BKB had a long cooldown while Force Staff is just stupidly good since the cooldown is 19 sec. AND if more than one hero has it, they can just chain it to get allies far away.

[@idontlikeyou.7192]

@@NormalHatter thats why people just play autoattack invoker :) especially since he's universal now and gets insane amount of stats from manta style XDXD

[@deadeye7924]

I play both and the biggest issue with this is that hweis abilities all serve similar specialized roles to invokers,the difference is that hwei isn’t really the invoker of the game as much as ppl think he is. He has reagents and such but aphelios actually does have similar combinations to invoker and has more complexity with his ammo mechanic. Hwei is there to make you feel like you are doing invoker combos but the feel of invoker is all aphelios. Keep in mind once items are taken into acc it’s a whole diff discussion

[@annov]

@deadeye7924 btw I was hyped for Hwei when they told me he will be similar to invoker. But I was disappointed in the end.

[@adrianbunea2006]

Every single League champion is a Dota hero but Riot failed to understand why the champion should exist in the game. Dota heroes have abilities that feel distinct and intentional (except for the newer heroes), and they have the impact required to justify their existence. League champions are just damage machines, and the spells just deal damage, the CC or utility they provide is minimal most of the time. Renata's Ultimate, which makes all enemies hit start fighting each other is just an AoE stun because 99% of the time the damage dealt from allies is negligible, it could have been a stun and nothing would feel different, because the duration of the spell is too short for the berserk status to be impactful. That's just one example, but if you look at any champion in League you'll notice they just deal damage and the way they do is hardly relevant, league has degenerated into a brawler game where you just go into the mosh pit and press all your buttons, and the only way they can keep players engaged is by making flashy designs that dash all over the screen, and then call it successful because players love it, but that's like a candy company saying candy is good because kids love it when we all know it's bad.

[@rranon8489]

Man, LoL looks like its graphics hasn't improved since the first time it launched. Not meaning to be more hardware intensive, Dota hasn't gotten any more - but even less hw intensive (after it started using new x86 arch features), but it still looks vvvv good. And is improving.

[@vulpex4105]

LoL had a complete graphic overhaul about 10(?) years ago, its VERY different from launch

[@rranon8489]

@@vulpex4105 Oh right... Forgot. Point still stands though. Dota honestly still looks modern. Though I never liked the way the creeps were designed and that still stands.

[@Tiagocf2]

@@vulpex4105 nah, LoL had a style change, graphics wise it's still at the same level

[@tiredcoconut5892]

I rarely played Invoker. And when I do, my fingers decides to have stroke individually. The LoL version just gives you 3 sets of skills with 3 individual skills but with Invoker you have 3 skills that you can used to make combinations to "invoke" a skill. it may sound easy but it is frustrating if you cant get the timing. there's also changes in stats according to what "orb" is being used and the lvl of the "orb", the damage, duration, cd also changes according to the lvl, then there's aghs and shard and talent tree. Invoker is mental. A really good hero and also a frustrating one.

[@jemarcatubig3171]

icefrog took a lot of time to make invoker become a his masterpiece character too... imagine the 27 spells

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Many of those were redundant, garbage, or barely usable jank. I'm glad he got streamlined in Doto.

[@jkielacague5760]

now imagine the 27 skill invo in warcraft 3 hahaha

[@ckondoryano5173]

grimm stroke throws his dead wife a t you to silence you peak lore on abilities

[@arczuha9209]

the 1st invoker presentation is like a guy want him to have all skills The invoker with 27 invoke But of course balancing and ease of use they make it just 10

[@vitaliitomas4057]

I'm kind of scared of the day Riot decide to create their own Rubick

[@annov]

They already have it. Its called Sylas.

[@sabbiismarobbi767]

🗿 sylas and viego

[@periclesfigueiredo171]

my dream is play a little bit of what invoker has to offer

[@christsatali9139]

Invoker is legit kaelthas from warcraft 3

[@hanzelo5797]

Pls make why Rubick is so unique

[@bachpham6862]

The line about Hwei being a knock off of invoker and other champions is kind of funny when usually the character with a brush and an artist is a stereotype coding for them being a master of mimicry and copying (Grimstroke has one of his skills being recreation of his wife, and his aghs is literally copying an enemy hero).

[@haryok8940]

Also ulti that clones targeted spells(never forget about PL aghs with grim ulti, ultimate cloning technique)

[@MrDarkNao]

My favorite dota Hero! A.k.a Kael, Arsenal Magus.

[@mostafavajedi6020]

invoker isn't called arsenal magus for nothing. he is unique.

[@nadainspire2238]

the finest creation

[@Cricket0021]

i saw a video comparing hwei's abilities to other champions' skills. his kit is basically a compilation of other skills with paint aesthetics. he even has sett's pull ability, he can just use it from a longer range. EDIT: 7:34 i think they designed him to be a pretty boy considering that MOST of the recent skins released by this company are pretty, e-boy/e-girl, sexy designs.