Why Is TrackMania NOT a Major Esport?

[@RacetasClub]

This sums up everything basically, amazing docu, keep it up

[@ericdanielski4802]

300

[@vxunaTM_xuandanhphan]

400

[@btf_flotsam478]

I think it could be worth mentioning that the combination of weak multiplayer and a strong, competitive community is probably the cause of the TrackMania speedrunning community's success, since there would be little other way for the large number of competitive players to demonstrate their skill against their peers. It didn't hurt that replays meant that runs could be easily analyzed, and many people in the comments have noted that the glitches didn't hurt the speedrunning scene (any bad glitches would only cause a reset, while the more exploitable glitches would add to the skill ceiling and provide different ways of playing the game).

[@KrioCreative]

Man I've probably spent 200 hours watching trackmania content *and I've never even installed it*

[@Bobba8590]

Same... same...😄

[@programmer1840]

It's pretty fun to play with friends online or on LAN even if you're a noob. I have been playing with my friends and we're all noobs, but it's super fun because we're all at the same level. Definitely worth giving it a go!

[@ThomasSantosCanal1]

It's like racing sports, fun to watch but i don't think I'll bother to try

[@jaxxsparrow96]

U should do it, good game to get distracted from other games.. even have a cup every day when u can compete with pros, and have the best community I ever seen in games, no hate or rage

[@thomasr1051]

Same

[@dani_2002tm]

The only time I have EVER seen Nadeo do ANY sort advertising was with TM Turbo. The game relies completely on Wirtual and Zerator atm, and Nadeo does nothing. I once asked Riolu (Yeah yeah, I know) in early 2019 if he had any information about what Nadeo was doing and he replied with something along the lines of "Probably nothing but sit on their asses all day".

[@gagaringagarinovic2600]

i wonder what riolu is doing now?

[@__lasevix_]

@@gagaringagarinovic2600 sit on his ass all day In slowmo, of course

[@cirostrizzi3760]

⁠​⁠@@gagaringagarinovic2600probably nothing but sit on his ass all day

[@TmOnlineMapper]

I agree that the way to fix this game is to get rid of Hylis. Such poor leadership.

[@Nicklander]

I think Hylis is an excellent programmer and game developper, but he's definitely not good at taking decisions and doing marketing.

[@blerst7066]

16:11 "But when we needed them the most, Nadeo disappeared." I died lol

[@x0o0o0]

This video must be seen by the community, great job!

[@DankNotFast]

Hopefully it will be! Thx man :D

[@DankNotFast]

@Ska Boo 🗿

[@lndhsjgdnwnkshsonfc9364]

bruh

[@lukam3270]

why are we all gathering in this comment thread today 🗿

[@klank9409]

🗿

[@Gamorou]

With the high amount of changes in the championship, the game, and Nadeo themselves, I think it is worth it for this video to get a part 2 talking about the recent times

[@Dulje]

I would go as far as to say Trackmania is as revolutionary and as significant as Counter Strike. It's simple to get into, has basic controls, very easy entry level, and no skill ceiling. The only difference is that CS has a limited map pool, as for Trackmania you can have an infinite amount of maps that keep the game fresh. CS is a team based game of rounds, and Trackmania also has team rounds. Simplistic and easy to get into gameplay with an infinite skill ceiling is what Trackmania is! Great informative video, would like to see a potential follow up as 2021 is almost over. A year in review maybe?! ^^

[@DankNotFast]

ya boi has a bachelors thesis to write next semester so i'll see how motivated i am for that, i do have part of the script already written.

[@IroAppe]

Especially since Nadeo has at least partly started to listen. They changed the points loss system to the new multiplier system. Which still got criticized - so now they will change it again, instead of doing nothing as before. So at least... something is going on? I don't know how much, but at least they don't just ignore the players' opinions anymore.

[@vesas5214]

Umm CS has massive map pool on community servers. The only difference is that CS is infested with cheaters.

[@JustTheHighlights]

@@sayarimamani3605 Big Brain! 👌

[@pallando]

Difference is that as a casual player, for CS you pay once to own it, for TM you pay... yearly to never own it? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching TrackMania, but that payment model is just silly in 2020/2021. It bars many players from getting into it.

[@TommoMcCluskey]

Great video!

[@brakefast3930]

F1 esports was the first thing I thought of when he listed the other ones

[@vibonacci]

TrackMania is actually gaining popularity since the release of the 2020 version. And indeed it would be way bigger if it didn't require a recurring monthly payment for serious players.

[@Nicklander]

Thank you for having done this video, it's a great service to the community and hopefully goes viral.

[@Zooz.]

6:00 Oh hi, it's me! I was not a community manager, just a volunteer moderator and TMU Giant Cup champion...

[@Zooz.]

I was also banned at some point for criticizing Hylis btw

[@kachelstacktus]

I still dont get why they don't switch up the points-loss in the TM-Grandleague. Just make the bottom 8 on the 3rd and 4th map loose all their points and on the last two stages only half. This would keep at least the midfield very close, make comebacks possible and still punish lower positions without killing their entire race. Edit: it would also force players to train all 4 of the last maps as supposed to right now we're half the field just looks at the last two

[@dieteryuwono414]

Overall a great video, but I wish you had gotten more subs from this video as you have great documenting skill and fantastic editing skills. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your videos!

[@supingo3339]

1 year later I can happly say that shit got mzch much better!

[@lihis2543]

Good video! I think trackmania is slowly getting more and more major esports potential. I just hope that the grand league would be better but there are also more community made championships and stuff

[@abexuro]

this explains a lot. And I thought the current TMGL points system in 2021 was wack... Also the payment model for this game is absolutely insulting. I have to pay $20 more per year if I want to watch WR replays? In a game that's focused on time-trails and beating high-scores?!

[@red13emerald]

You don’t need to pay, you can also watch the WR replays if you get an author medal, right?

[@jurajojo2543]

@@red13emerald I'ven ever figured out how one would go about doing that on starter or standard edition

[@red13emerald]

@@jurajojo2543 Drive well? Turn on "drive against opponents" so you see how others are approaching the map. And remember to select "different opponents" every time you drive a new personal best. This will show you new, faster times from others, which should help you improve as well.

[@jurajojo2543]

@@red13emerald ye I know this but this doesn't give you wr replay and it's opponents from your country

[@red13emerald]

@@jurajojo2543 Well it will if you get the author medal. Once you do that, a little timer icon will show up on the left side of your screen and you can look at the WRs from there. At least I thought so, maybe I’m misremembering? 🤔

[@nicholaswalters261]

quite fitting to choose doom's music for such a depressing topic :D great video

[@jovica2]

all caps when u spell the mans name, r.i.p.

[@Arnechk]

TMN should be an olympics-like league where nations would sign up. I always envisioned it as that.

[@Und3rcov3r]

Damn, didn't know any of these things about nadeo. Thanks for making me aware of these issues. Great video! :)

[@RainShinotsu]

Great video! I've thought about why Trackmania isn't really recognized as an eSport because it seems like it has a lot of potential to be, and this explanation makes sense. I wish Nadeo would be more open with Trackmania, but seeing that they're under Ubisoft, I'm not surprised they aren't. Also, re: "the fourth iteration of Stadium", Turbo (and likely the mid-2000s console games) would like a word with you

[@gusswe12]

this is a amazing video, sad that not that many people got to see, and the creater not getting what he deserved for making this amazing video

[@paint4pain]

Thanks for the history lesson, I bought TMU on December 27 2006 and played a bunch back then. I only came back to the game with the new version and couldn't find a server with more than 3-4 people. It's watching the streamers that kept me engaged.

[@KripkeTM]

16:08 is my favourite, this is exactly the thing what I am thinking :D

[@LentillionTM]

Really interesting how the Nadeo mindset refuses to change, even after all of these years. Great doc!

[@BroletariatRL]

Small channel like this shouldn’t be making content this good. Amazing stuff keeping up.

[@tsevasa]

Feels more relevant than ever...

[@mtat_tm]

great video

[@henrugolf]

This is your 1st time recording yourself? Great job, keep it up!

[@chippyyyy]

its not he stole it from wirtual

[@vxunaTM_xuandanhphan]

@@chippyyyy 🤨

[@chippyyyy]

@@vxunaTM_xuandanhphan its a video wirtual

[@dinocadet77]

Great video. Comfy. Like watching a low budget student documentary.

[@sebastianhaas5863]

Very well argued and made video! On point as well, Nadeo and communication just don't go together, at all, maybe it's forbidden in the company's founding contract...

[@brim5954]

the rapp snitch knishes got me, amazing documentary

[@therealslimshady3662]

As someone who's played the one game since its first releases (TM Original, Sunrise, Nations and United Forever) Nadeo has allways had their heads up their asses. United Forever is still the greatest game, and i used to host hotseat evenings up until covid. You dont need TM² or TM2020. Just get an original copy of united forever, enjoy the 7 envoirenments and their hotseat mixability (like tf TM², seriously) and race up to 7 homies. Or one, depending on your local regulations. I hate covid.

[@n00bGT-R]

bruh i wish i had friends who were interested in playing tm, hotseat mode seems a lot of fun but only if you have people to play with

[@therealslimshady3662]

@@n00bGT-R well, having a group of players on the same skill level is allways good, i also suggest lightening up the mood with alcohol or weed. Just dont one on one people unless you really know they are good enough to keep up the grind. Over the time i had my sit ins like two people showed up that actually played TM for ages too and racing them was a blast, but see yourself more as a host rather than a competitor when letting others race. For casual players i suggest going easy until they are hooked and leading their hotseat times on instead of going all out first run. Also Start with A or B compilations, A if they are into it and B if they are a bit bored (more racing vs lower loading times while still having a bit of a challenge thats doable)

[@Thekakarote96]

Got this recommended to me, waiting for this to blow up!

[@kingjasko]

In many aspects trackmania is like haxball, very simple to play, but hard to master, amazing competitive gamemodes yet stubborn unambitious developers ruining the games and limiting all potential

[@JustAnOwlz]

Great video! In the last year-or-so, with the popularity of Wirtual and all the others that "made big" on youtube, do you think that we're finally experiencing a better TM compared with all the other 10+ years of history? I'm curious to know what do you think about it

[@DankNotFast]

In terms of popularity and exposure TM has never been better, sadly the esport scene is still a joke 100% carried by trilluxe and wirtual. Nadeo still relies on punishing formats to create artificial upsets rather than cultivating a fair and healthy competitive environment. Unlucky i guess

[@IroAppe]

I have to say that I have partly watched one or two of the older world cups - where there are only very short and twisty start-to-finish maps. I never watched more of that than a little bit. It just does not draw me in. The Grand League on the other hand - since I've seen the first cast of it, I'm following every single episode completely. I think for the start, it is because of the maps, they are very unique. Okay, this season - and I've criticized that - the maps were more bland. But the seasons before always had maps that were very unique and very fun to watch, and I think also to play. Especially the TMGL where Frozen Fridges was inside - the maps in that cup, I'll always remember them. Boy were they unique. Speaking of the points format - I think they should go back to the regular competitive format - but weigh the later maps a little bit more. So you don't win multipliers or something crazy like now - the points you get in the later maps just get a little bit more weighted. Something like with 6 maps: 1x, 1x, 2x, 2x, 3x, 3x.

[@LrZLiner]

Well this is the first time hearing DOOM on a Trackmania video. Fucking love it.

[@SynkGD]

It was a shocking realization that he isn't really underground anymore, man has multiple viral songs on tiktok and there are more people than you'd think who know about DOOM

[@bluescheep]

sums it up well, great video and nice edititng!

[@ziko317]

I was excited to see a successor to TM Nations Forever. But then I saw SUBSCRIPTION and I haven't looked at the game since.

[@ClearwaterUK]

The base game has a free tier, with a considerable amount of content. There are sub tiers, however you KEEP all content you get during those periods even when it expires, and what's available is more than what most 60€ "AAA" games offer these days.

[@slappfesk]

Damn... never knew the competetive scene was this bad. What a missed opportunity! I really feel for all the TM players and fans out there. But with that intro I thought for a brief second you were gonna present one of my slightly healthier addictions for the past few years. What do you get if you combine ball sports and cars? Coming up in 2022 is the first Rocket League world championship! Just a few weeks ago was the lan world qualifier with over 200k viewers live on twitch! The scene is so wholesome to the point were I find myself rooting for all the teams and I always end up wishing for good Rocket League and great moments. And holy cow have we had some epic moments over the years

[@gyrasolune5436]

Part of me does think it's a little bit sad that Trackmania has made all these cool alternate environments over the years that offer a lot of interesting variance on how Stadium works, and which frankly are visually more appealing! But they never gain any traction and now the current iteration has launched with just the one . . .

[@p0werfu11]

Hadn't played this in years but I remember playing time trials in United Forever in 2010. It was so satisfying.

[@angryhobo212]

Great video and great soundtrack. It was a pleasant surprise to hear classic beats that I recognize. Cheers :)

[@BiaLy23PoL]

6:10 FreeZone... The FreeZone was probably forced on Nadeo by Ubisoft, cause it was happen just a litle bit afetr Ubisoft take over Nadeo.

[@ClearwaterUK]

Not quite. The ad servers Nadeo were partnered with shut down, so Nadeo had to find a way to incentivize players to upgrade to TMUF, so they introduced the FreeZone system

[@sassyash]

We like the MF DOOM sample in the back But that makes the docu even more tasty

[@matiasbenavidesdigitalvisu9511]

still remember wcg 2009 when karjen win the event on china, good times

[@jakeup9668]

Trackmania United forever...BEST TM

[@snidex-6067]

Great video! Didn't know Nadeo was so trash... About the tmgl point system though, I actually like that cause it keeps the tension up throughout all the race. Maybe putting the full point loss in 3rd/4th map and half point loss in 5th/6th would be a better choice (considering this year's format), allowing for some kind of comeback, but completely removing the point loss doesn't seem good to me

[@Plankton975]

I would bet all my money that 75% or more of TM players only play because of Wirtual

[@KY_100]

I'm guessing it's just gonna be "no orgs invested in it"

[@metarotta]

tm2 era trackmania esports being carried by meme track tournament tells enough

[@Yakushi0Mikatsu]

Love that MF DOOM background music

[@AllericEnslin]

Sim racing is still going up a lot. F1 Esports, iRacing Nascar/Porsche Cup/Rallycross are like the only majors out there. F1 Esports can get up to 50k live viewers with it's races. I do love Trackmania though. Been part of it since 2016 in the esports side doing FS comps and previously running a team in 2020 called Tauro with players such as Raceta, Mime and Erizel. I myself quit TM to chase my esports dream in sim racing, since TM just never offered that full time role. Same happened with the team as TMGL has some limits. I would love to see TM get to the top of esports racing. Such a fantastic game and community

[@marlonsantana21]

and I discovered tm turbo just yesterday, gettting dust on my psplus subscription. My favorite racing game now

[@nathankohonen2924]

it was near impossible to make a multiplayer server. not sure if they fixed it but this made it REAL hard to convince mates to play and build proper communities.

[@Azur1200]

yeah hosting TMF is a nightmare with little documentation

[@KellerHands]

Interesting insight on a lot of things I didn't even know happend. Maybe not making all those mistakes could've really made a difference after all.

[@FaithfulMC]

A year later, I can say most the issues you talked about are fixed. Good on Nadeo and Hylis to finally get their heads out of their asses and fix the game.

[@bIuejack]

Well I can see someone is a DOOM fan, great video!

[@pladselsker8340]

slowly but surely, it's getting better :p

[@phoenixking339]

TM has gotten better in the last 2 years and is the best its ever been with two major games still being competitive and bugs being rare unless you want them to happen the competitive scene is also improved and very exciting.

[@DomikTrackmania]

For me, it's up to the community to keep the game alive. People make their own competitions. Their not so big but we enjoy it. Nadeo themselfs just doesn't now how to handle it all. Like you said it, they need to get open to critisism and most importantly, listen to the community. Big potential for the game and if Nadeo really wanted to, they can. Great video, should have gained more atention tho.

[@toxictyco7881]

Music choice is just 10/10 the entire way thru

[@cime62]

Honnêtement j'ai mis un moment avant de me dire "eh mais, ce mec est français". Tu as un super accent :)

[@sloth9093]

Imagine a minecraft tournament in a stadium there would just be 20cps clicking the whole time

[@AndreioxMacedo]

Cheers for the intro music. Great taste

[@AndreioxMacedo]

Ok, cheers for all musics lol. mos def, mf doom... thats great

[@NewCandyCane]

For being your first video, I like it, bring me more! :)

[@chippyyyy]

its his first stolen video, im not supporting this guy

[@MrHerodoto]

Why does this video does not have like 100 times more views? I not get it at all! Very well done job here, Mr. Please don't stop.

[@z3dar]

I think the algorithm is only now starting to pick this up. I've been watching trackmania youtube content a lot for about a year but only now got this recommended to me.

[@chippyyyy]

its cause he stole this video from wirtualtahts why

[@nickalfonso8616]

I could tell this was a good video as soon as I heard MF DOOM

[@ShanleH]

Nice video, although its wrong to say there isnt an eSports racing scene, as F1 eSports has around 10 million fans, and with contracts and Sponsorships the winning drivers make $2.5m+. You just have to look at tehir studio and layout to realise how big it really is, although not really any live crowds since it really blew up due to Covid

[@quora1820]

The studio space they use is the gfinity arena, its used for a load of different events and not just f1.

[@Krakabraka]

just 45 subs?!?!? This is awesome!

[@KimDare75]

All trackmania games are in a zombie state... not quite dead, yet definitely not as alive as they could be.

[@Azur1200]

since united they sabotaged their own games with stupid descicions like coppers,starforce on united or selling separate environments on TM2 and subscription on TM2020

[@doppelplusungutmensch1141]

The very start of the beginning (and something I always wondered about): Shooting and fighting games like Dota or League of Legends are so famous in eSports while great sports simulators like FIFA are way less, and I always wondered why. Yeah, because you can watch sports in real as well while you'll barely see a group of five people fighting each other with magical weapons in real life. Never thought about that one simple fact.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

FIFA has been the same game since I last played it. That was FIFA 2000. Even the graphics barely got better. Plus its an EA game, and all EA games are trash these days that only exist for the purpose of selling you microtransactions and lootboxes. Of course it isnt a big esport. Also, its a 1v1 game and those are much less popular with viewers than team games.

[@doppelplusungutmensch1141]

@@TheSuperappelflap Couldn't you literally make FIFA a 11-vs-11 game? Okay, that might (or will) result in server problems, but imagine how cool that would be. Both teams actually consist of 11 players, each of them having one player on the field. I'df watch it!

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@doppelplusungutmensch1141 that is actually an official game mode and it isn't very popular

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@doppelplusungutmensch1141 there is a game mode for that. its even less popular than the 1v1 game mode.

[@writenamehere1536]

trackmania is the kind of game where the developers can just sit down and do nothing while those who care enough will use the tools they provided to make something great. too bad nadeo still hopes thats gonna work. wirtual and zerator wont keep the game alive forever, and when theyre gone, whos gonna show up to make tm more mainstream?

[@jokintoinen]

bugs are the reason why i play trackmania

[@jokintoinen]

and the servers are not broken

[@HeWhoShams]

Wasn't expecting Mr. Fantastik and MF DOOM- Rapp Snitch I think the next one is Books of War? I like your taste.

[@merkghost7137]

whats the song act 0:51?

[@HeWhoShams]

​@@merkghost7137Rapp Snitches Mr. Fantastik and MF DOOM I think its off the album MM FOOD

[@HeWhoShams]

​@@merkghost7137MF DOOM is a god tier lyricist. Beef Rap, Rap Snitches, Doomsday, Accordian, All Caps are absolute legendary songs

[@aim__freakz8499]

rap snitches in the bg is a huge W

[@arthurjoris7703]

i’m your 400th follower your video is really good

[@pey.]

Just a bit of friendly feedback. I really like your taste in music but the final song was a bit loud over the commentary. Really good video nonetheless. 😁

[@thelizardfolk]

Watching this video back is funny. Because since the Pandemic and when they put iRacing on FOX Sports and ESPN, iRacing has become the poster child for a racing game esports as well as the FIA pushing their sponsored F1 2021 game. GT Sport has released to be a GT eSports title but iRacing right now has taken most of the attention with real life drivers racing in it on TV.

[@krinos1]

Idk why but i was very surprised to hear mf doom in a trackmania video

[@nO_d3N1AL]

TrackMania is a hidden gem, it's so accessible (a 4-button game) and so easy to pick up and play but hard to master. It's also really fun. I think because it's mostly single player and not competitive in the sense that the actions of other players don't affect you. It's a shame Ubisoft is sleeping on TrackMania, they should release it on consoles too

[@Morhpeo]

7:50 "For the better *shows Nadeo'ica* or for the worst *shows hunt the odyssey" xDDDDDDD

[@Morhpeo]

Other than that amazing video summing up everything any hardcore trackmania player thinks !

[@thirdplanetman9468]

It's coming up 💪

[@EveradusBremensis]

Great Video, you should do a follow up in the next months :)

[@Azur1200]

And their esports DIED AGAIN, nadeo is its own worst enemy

[@Zooz.]

TMX (with world records) already existed before TMN ESWC, I have an account from March 2004!

[@tsunamiz_]

I like that fact that this video is one year old but we still have the same problems atm..

[@afa1515]

All of the virtual motorsport is kinda overseen, but at least it's growing all together and even the actual manufacturers are supporting it.

[@chippyyyy]

2019 gran turismo sport esports got a 47.5 million viewer base when this years IRL F1 only got a miserable 937k viewer base, but im happy more manufactures are hopping in the esports

[@notVikkg]

The criticism at the end is so real especially because I'm a perfect example of it, I've been watching Trackmania content religiously for around a year and a half right now, and I've never played the game, or even wanted to, why? Because the game is FULL of bugs, bugs that you need to learn if you want to be competitive in the game, there's just no way I can catch up in knowledge with old players, Bugslide, speedslides, ice wiggles, bla bla bla, I'm sorry learning all of this would take years, compare this to a game like I don't know Valorant which is an emerging E-sport right now, a game where you can literally become the best in the span of a few months(If your willing to be the best of course), and I know the bugs make the game more fun, shit it's fun as fuck to watch this game, but starting in this game just looks like a chore

[@Pigiero]

Great music choice

[@IlConteSky]

Because it's actually skill based.

[@chippyyyy]

you cant say a racing game isnt skill based, its just a different type of skill

[@TJSaewd]

the reason there are so many bugs is that fact that TMNF isn't and was never Nadeo's main project. The whole point of TMNF was to give new players a small taste of what Trackmania2 was like, so they would have fun in TMNF then transition to Trackmania2. TMNF was and is considered a complete and finished game by Nadeo, so they will never update it again

[@greencalcium5813]

TL:DR The reason Trackmania doesen't have a thriving esport competitive community is: Because NADEO is not a king, but a tyrant. Only caring for profit, and disregarding the community and sometimes outright threatning them if they do not agree to his wishes.

[@DankNotFast]

I dont think they only see profit given they took fifteen whole years to realize TM stadium was the only successful game they'd ever made :/

[@vnatusvods6876]

Well made video, im surprised your so small as a youtuber

[@Bendwow]

Sadly I was never into TM until recently. It amazes me how similar Nadeo is to the TM community and Valve is to the CS community. Both are really out of touch with the competitive part of the community and it seems they actively push players away with decisions and lack of communication/info 🤦‍♂🤣

[@chimichanga5964]

what an awesome documentary, do more! :)

[@Kantstoner]

This is a great video on the topic, reallly interesting, keep it up;)

[@vich3359]

Don't know this game but thumbs up for the MF DOOM soundtrack lol

[@asmallyoutube]

the answer could have been just a few words: trackmania was never (meant to be) popular