Why is TRAGEDY Beautiful? (2 Theories)

[@schnee1]

Tamar’s full answer (transcript of her voice note, more or less) (Schnee: hey! random question related to a video i'm making: how would you describe what beauty means in math? what type of idea/scenario in math would you call beautiful? what's beautiful about it?) Tamar: Hey this is a good question! Let me tell you some things that are not quite it, but are qualities of what’s a beautiful idea in math. I think that this is something anyone would agree with and then i’ll tell you something that's a little more like my personal take. I think that for an idea to be beautiful in math it has to be simple and surprising. Maybe this is not a shocking list of qualities, but if something is a very complicated idea,it's not really gonna strike people as beautiful. And if something is just sort of obvious deductive steps, that’s also not beautiful. It’s sort of like some sort of creative route to an idea or a surprising conclusion that comes about from something that’s simple to follow in some way. Like maybe soe sort of unexpected maneuver where someone spells out the steps, you can see it, and see how it works. I don’t think that’s the whole picture, but I think the reason those things are necessary is that it’s something that’s sort of perspective expanding. I guess that gets to what i think is beautiful in math, which are the ideas where you get a new perspective on the same idea. Like you have different paradigms in math, different ways that you can build up different kinds of mathematical objects and ways of thinking mathematically, and when someone can build a bridge where you can see that there’s these two different perspectives or these two different frameworks are actually different lenses on the same idea or or comparable lenses on the same idea, then that can be a really beautiful thing. Let me think of an analogy. Ok, this is not a great example, but imagine you were thinking about food and you were thinking about how certain cultures -- this is made up -- but like certain cultures use mushrooms in a certain way, and certain cultures use soy sauce, and some people use fish sauce, and some people use like, I don’t know, some kind of cheese, and you realize that there’s some sort of unifying idea that showed that these were all different approaches to the same achieving a certain kind of punch in your food. So certain ideas in math are like that where there's sort of some sort of like a unifying idea that brings together different kinds of ideas. And that's,I think, a really classic type of beautiful idea. And that's one of my favorite things. I don't think it's the only thing that people call beautiful in math, so I'll think about it a little bit more. Maybe there's something that could be a little bit more summarizable, but those are the thoughts off the top of my head.

[@Thebigmanwaffle]

Sad ending can be better than happy endings cause they are more impactful and hit the harder and stick with you longer than if evreything went happily e ver after

[@dnbqup]

Okay, but did you ask your friend if the fact that you use light-mode on Discord is beautiful? It's simple and surprising after all. And also psychopathic. Time to unsubscribe. 😔

[@curtiswfranks]

As a mathematician, she hit on exactly the points which I was going to raise. For me, I find the unification of seemingly utterly-separated things as an especially heightened form of beauty, although it is not necessary. Simplicity and simultaneous creativity are important features too, as described.

[@JimmyAgent007]

I think part of Beauty is silencing the noise of everything else. It drowns out other thoughts. If someone in math or physics discovers something, you think they are concerned about normal life things? If you stare at a sunset, are you thinking about sports? We like Arcane because it pulls us in to be more concerned for the characters than our own worries for a while. For me, I was driving at night, and some song from the 90s came on the radio and for a moment, I felt like I was a teenager again. That was a moment of beauty.

[@SuperMaster000X]

Talking about Tragedy, did you watch Cyberpunk Edge runners?

[@Crasteeh]

I think what made Jinx's rocket so powerful was that it was the most Devastating moment of her life. but simultaneously the most triumphant. the rocket is shot out of anger, regret, and sorrow. but also out empowerment, Pride, and Love. It's a beautiful moment for that reason. All of her emotions, anger, and Trauma all culminate into a missile of mass destruction. it's like the world will finally know and feel what she's experienced all her life. and will know that she's now truly become jinx.

[@DMrKunst2]

You NAILED it

[@matheussanthiago9685]

during the rocket scene I sincerely can't not remember if we can actually hear Silco's line ''we will show them, we'll show them all'', the line he said for the first time when he takes Jinx on as his daughter but I can see it so distinctly

[@BimmerWon]

I think a lot of mass shooters feel the same way.

[@LuisSierra42]

@@matheussanthiago9685 That line is very similar to what Ellie's mother tells her when she's born "you tell them Ellie"

[@Blackbutterflyt888]

That's it!

[@fell9654]

Maybe the real tragedy is the friends we didn't make along the way

[@HxH2011DRA]

Bruuuuuh XD

[@BimmerWon]

That’s been the case for me. Still friendless at age 25. Now I wish I tried to make friends more at school rather than having my nose in the books 24/7. It wasn’t worth it. Companies don’t give a shit about how much you know, they only care about how well you can communicate with people which I’m terrible at since I was always a loner.

[@LuisSierra42]

@@HxH2011DRA HISOKA is so beautiful

[@madeofcastiron]

this hit way too close to home

[@HxH2011DRA]

@@LuisSierra42 that he is my friend🤡

[@RKC-1234]

In Iron Man, Yinsin telling Tony not to waste his second chance and that he was going to be with his dead family, that was pretty beautifully tragic.

[@schnee1]

true, good example

[@notproductiveproductions3504]

Imagine if Tony went to that pocket realm in the soul stone in Endgame and saw Yinsin’s ghost asking if he didn’t waste his second chance at life

[@JUNKIngeniero]

​@@notproductiveproductions3504that would be beauty in terms of recognizing the one that planted that in tony, closing the circle, reuniting in that realm

[@Spiker985Studios]

Schnee, you have a way of breaking down these extremely complex topics, in very accessible manners - which is not something everyone can do Keep it up!

[@schnee1]

thx, i appreciate it!!

[@theeviloverlord7168]

For me, beauty in storytelling comes from contrast. It’s one of the reasons why bittersweet tends to hit stronger than fluff or angst separately. And even in your answers you kind of hint to it in a sense: - Tenderness in strife - Simplicity from chaos Etc.

[@thewrens_]

in that way, beauty is the complete juxtaposition of two ideas that unifies and completes each of them individually - we are FORCED to dramatically deepen our understanding of both (AND how they fit together) and that is beautiful

[@glassapple5903]

Part of it might be inevitability, too (if this is already mentioned my bad). But in tragic stories, it feels like there’s always a hope that things could have gone another way, either because of ignorance or circumstance, but from the very beginning of the story, it is clear that the “happy ending” that we may hope for the characters in the end is not, in some way, possible. Realistically, it never was and in some way the audience is subconsciously aware of it, too. On “Death of a Salesman”, Arthur Miller mentions how the only certain thing in his play was Willy’s undoing of himself, despite all else, for instance, which makes the ending dialogue from the characters have this sort of “beauty” effect. The “beauty” then may be a newer manifestation of that hope. It is not necessarily a spectacle of the actions/emotions by themselves that does this (although these are invaluable for resonating). The hope becomes a tainted hope that has adapted to the world around it, but it refuses to die, even if it must loose sight of itself in order to do so. edit; might also be that a character fulfills a part of themselves despite the consequences (Jinx coming into her own person / growing -> giant explosion, Joel showing he has finally connected to Ellie / found love and fulfillment -> murder hospital), maybe? Like a be careful what you wish for situation, almost

[@axiemakesedits]

Such an amazing video. My thoughts is that tragedy is a way to make the characters feel human and like you said sad and emotional. Psychologically, tragedy draws us to what is itself tragic. Things that are beautiful because they are human or relatable, Thanks for listening to my TED talk.

[@axiemakesedits]

Also I know i used human twice sorry

[@dispergosum]

The fact there was not a single mention of the 1997 masterpiece "Life is Beautiful" during this whole discussion on the meaning of beauty is very unfortunate and a missed opportunity. I'm usually not too emotional but the scene where the kid is watching his dad from his hiding place and the dad looks right at him and does the goofiest walk possible, knowing full well what his fate is and providing that moment of joy to his boy, that breaks me. It goes perfectly with the "tenderness in a world of strife" definition but takes it to the extreme.

[@lunarshadow5584]

The drop in happiness is a work of art because it plays with your emotions. When something unexpectedly perfect happens, it can do a high spike upwards in awe, but the opposite is also true, a sudden leap can make your heart jump. The tragedy is beautiful because its not real, a real life tragedy is something to pity but a work of art becomes even more beautiful when it gets an emotion out of you.

[@helenarosno]

chaos -> simplicity. “it has to be simple and surprising.” looking back at my own short stories, i think that perfectly summarizes exactly what i was doing without even realizing it.

[@shapes240]

this is one of your best videos, I never thought how difficult beauty really is to define. One line that stood out the most to me is how you said "working out PERFECTLY or falling apart Perfectly" I believe this is deriving from the human perspective: it is our pattern seeking brains seeing something coming together. it is the art pulling the emotion to the foreground after a long build up where you cant help but to feel a personal connection to an inanimate aspect. Almost like the climax of a story, it is the moments everything weaves together.

[@Ella-tv9ei]

You are my all time favorite video essay writer. Your videos are so good your getting through finals.

[@rivshi]

I think the challenge here was that there was an attempt to connect tragedy to beauty, and of course there is a connection as said in the video. However first ya gotta find out what beauty is. The topic was covered very good on what beauty is though. I just think that "what is beauty in storytelling" deserves its own...Universe.

[@dandargancarter4022]

BEAUTIFUL analysis. I took notes. Thanks for the post

[@adwa8471]

Dude i ADORE ur analysis videos, they're all incredibly insightful n always give me a new perspective on how a story is written, it showed me the depth of storytelling when it's done right in a way i wasn't quite aware of bfr Amazing work dude!!!

[@soysource3218]

“This world is cruel, and also very beautiful.” - Mikasa, Attack on Titan Season 1 I think that sums it up.

[@queenvictoria9378]

I'm endlessly blown away by how you break down complicated af topics and concepts and work them into a beautiful video your subscribers can understand

[@АртурКалюш]

Thanks a lot man. I do feel like it is one of the most clear and important videos that could be made on the topic. I havent dwelled too much on the aspect of beuty, yet being presented to its definition this explicidly feels like almost being handed the keys to some crucial aspect of screenwritting (which relates to many other of your videos as well). Thanks a lot man, the content is fantastic

[@summerlynthompson4558]

Beauty is best described is when we take the time to bask in the significance of a thing. A quality that we marvel in a person, the idiosyncrasy of a lover, the majesty untouched wilderness, the surprising solution to a complicated problem, someone finding peace in their final breath, or the simple comfort in a quiet family moment. Beauty does not need contrast, connection, finality, or inevitability, what it needs is significance. What makes the thing significant could easily be any of those things, but if I had to make a unifying definition of what makes things beautiful, I would say it is in its significance. (This also applies to "superficial" qualities, such as physical appearance. When you are marveling at ones appearance you are appreciating the significance of their features.)

[@StarSeeker1]

8:52 the feeling you get when reading good fanfiction 😌

[@Bem-0]

Respect you alot, too still keep the amazing arcane story in the spotlight as we are waiting for season 2. I genuinely love arcane and the story itself

[@romainvankerckhove4615]

I feel like there is also more nuance in the difference between sadness and tragedy. In Arcane for example, the ending is tragic not just because Jinx decides to shoot the rocket, but also because it happens at the exact moment went the council decides to vote for peace. It is also tragic because of how given different circumstances, Vi and Jinx could have had a great relationship. In tragedy lies the death of a potential better futur (something you mentioned with Joel) To me, another nuance is like this: Sadness => Something bad happens Tragic => Something terrible happens but that could have been resolved, or that is highly unjust

[@aweeladdie]

Here's my theory on Beauty - The resolution from sadness to harmony is incredibly beautiful, as it takes the most discordant and terrible experience and resolves it to something that feels right, almost happy. The contrast between them is why it's felt so strongly. You could say beauty is a resolution to harmony, or to an ideal of what is right or perfect. You could also say it's the ideal itself, but it is the sacrifice, or nature of the resolution that creates beauty. Harmony I would describe more as peace of contentment, the beauty of a person is felt when you see them again after a long time, it's a return to happiness. from the first example (4:15) the novelty of harmony causes it to be felt more strongly, as you have not become jaded to the feeling. The cookies is a re-realization of that harmony, allowing you to perceive it again as if new, but it feels even more right, because you've felt it a thousand times, and the resolution is so familiar and comforting. from a mathematical perspective (4:40) it is the purity and simplicity of the resolution. Again, the surprise makes it more vivid and concentrated. Ben's idea (6:10) it is the sacrifice, the resolution that creates beauty. The fact that the goal is so small is beautiful because that sacrifice is purely because of a belief that it is right, for no real gain or change, but for the harmony itself. Set of ideals (6:24) this is more about the purity and simplicity of the harmony and resolution, like slowly falling to one place. The time spent in harmony makes it all the sweeter and familiar when you return, without distractions or dissonance to draw you away. (6:45) this scene is not beautiful, because it never resolves to harmony, it begins horribly dissonant and resolves to an equally dissonant place. It feels right, but there is no where to resolve to. The following scene from hunger games resolves grief in a form of harmony, her response feels right. It still leaves an off note, to resolve the anger, which is then resolved in the next scene. (7:04) this scene is a release of tension, towards harmony. If you listen to the music in the background it follows that resolution perfectly- descending to a place, waiting, descending again towards harmony. (but it doesn't reach harmony) The following scene from arcane is also a resolution to harmony, and the resolution itself also feels simple, and right, despite being tragic. (7:52) the necessity is the dissonance. You cannot resolve from harmony to harmony, as it's already at rest. There is no movement, and nothing is felt. It's like how you feel acceleration as speed. (8:08) the final scene from arcane feels the most beautiful because it's the most tragic. It is simultaneously resolving a terrible tragedy in the perfect way, and creating a new one at the same time. It's rather odd that that makes it more beautiful, but I think the perception of the movement as one harmony becomes tragedy and the other becomes harmony makes it seem bigger than it might be alone. (8:22) the last of us finally is interesting Joel is not only sacrificing the fate of humanity, but also perhaps when shred of decency he had left, why? maybe because he thought it was the right thing, or maybe because Ellie was more important to him than even his morals. Regardless, it's poignant because of the scale of the sacrifice, and because it is done to achieve harmony. The reason it's so strange, is because that harmony was previously the status quo. The harmony is almost not worth the sacrifice, but the beauty of it is that he sacrificed it all the same. (9:10) you could argue that humanity is the ability to sacrifice for the idea of harmony, the idea of what is right. beauty definition #1 It's almost vivacity you describe here, not beauty. Although you could describe beauty as any movement of emotion, I'm not sure that's correct. I would describe it more as caffeine, it makes you feel things, and feeling things makes you appreciate the beauty of life more. I don't think it's actually beauty in itself, even if it may make you feel beauty. I think the second half where you were talking about this definition fits very nicely with my definition. And end is harmony, that's what harmony is. beauty definition #2 you could argue this is beautiful because of resolution, again, but it's not actually the emotion that resolves, but the plot, the story as a whole. You could also argue that the larger the setup, the larger the resolution, the more complete the harmony, the more beauty. Regardless, it still fits with my definition. (16:42) that is harmony, not beauty. You can obviously conflate the two, but then you have two words that have overlapping meanings and that's yucky. I'm just going to stop now, as this is already a block text from hell. I hope you get the point I was trying to make. Have a good day. edit: I see your synthesized version is very similar to mine, noice. I would disagree that the other definitions were not actually the same theory. They just incorrectly understood what they were observing, or had an incorrect explanation.

[@Ixarus6713]

"Tragedy is everything in life working together to pull you down" I'm really feeling the tragedy right now Mr Schnee...😢

[@NathanielJordan85]

#1 is Beauty of the human experience. #2 is beauty of art in the execution of art. This reminded me of likening of sports fans watching athletes 'performing art' when playing their sport - they are experts demonstrating peak human capacity for that form of performance.

[@lakynmisch4984]

Omg Schnee I have been watching your videos for a while and they have really helped me re analyze stories and dig deeper. If you ever want another story to dig deeper into, I would be curious to see how you would talk about Spiderman, into the spiderverse. The music, the animation style, the way certain moments are shot, it seems everything is connected in a very beautiful, interesting way. I would love to see your take on it.

[@schnee1]

totally agree, uploading a vid about it now!

[@alexandriaboss9229]

Exactly what you weren’t expecting but unexpectedly were wanting is how I would describe beauty (as a very general term). You didn’t know you wanted this thing of “beauty” until you see/hear/etc this thing. If a moment in a movie is beautiful, it’s evoking such a strong and unexpectedly perfect emotion from the viewer that makes them think “wow that was a beautiful scene”. If a picture or view is beautiful, it moves the observer in a way that is unexpected but feels so right, so perfect you wouldn’t change a thing. Using Arcane as an example, I obviously didn’t know the show was going to end with Jinx blowing up the council and killing Silco. And it’s not the fact that a rocket is flying through the air that is beautiful, it’s Jinx’s action of firing the rocket that symbolizes the conclusion and her self acceptance (along with just the whole conclusion of season 1) that is beautiful, and what we as viewers were unknowingly hoping to see (also paired along with visually stunning animation and emotionally moving music). It’s almost like a secret desire that you don’t know until you’ve experienced the moment of “beauty”. Obviously there’s more to it, but this is just a very condensed and on the fly version of this idea of what beauty is. Hopefully I conveyed that properly lol Another absolutely amazing video full of rich ideas!

[@AdidTurreno]

I love how much effort you put in these videos. They're not just opinions coming out of nowhere, but you at least try to gather some different perspectives, facts, and points of view, even if they cab be subjective, such as what is beauty

[@davidf2244]

What the fuck. How are you so smart. I've watched a few hours of these arcane videos you've made. You consolidate your thoughts so well. Organize. Communicate them so clearly. Wow. Do you have any influences/inspirations I can check out for more content like this?

[@caterina2290]

I love both of these series sm

[@adamjanos2]

Omg you referenced KIWI! Amazing pull. I’ve sometimes had a concept of perfection similar to what you articulated, I phrased it as “the story writes itself.” You feel as though the story could not exist in any other way.

[@prosperassey]

beauty at its core is synchronisty hence for anything to be beautiful good or evil it must be relatable to us so as to sync

[@StarslightAndDreams]

Great video as always! Amadeus came to my mind repeatedly througout this video. i think that movie unifies beauty and tragedy really well

[@finch8190]

I don't have money to comment stuffs in your Patreon, but if I did, I'd describe something I find beautiful, and I think about it a lot. I find beauty in taking care of myself. Not really the acts and rituals (e.g. brushing my teeth, showering, eating food), but more of the idea of it. I find beauty in the idea of taking care of myself. So, to use brushing my teeth as an example, I don't find brushing my teeth beautiful, but that fact that I'm doing it is beautiful. The fact that I'm taking time out of my day to do something that will benefit me and improve my general well-being is just so beautiful for a reason I can't seem to understand. Anyways...

[@charles_n3145]

I'm going to nerd out for a second, but this video made me think back to a literary theory class I took in college. While it does feel like a slippery undefinable topic, there's a whole discipline (philosophy of aesthetics) devoted to the inquiry of "what is beauty," as it relates to literature, art, math, etc. So it IS its own category in storytelling as you said! I imagine the most well known theory in this field is probably Aristotle's concept of emotional catharsis in tragedy, but there is a wide range of more modern ideas as well to explore, similar to the differing answers proposed in this video. In short, I think it's hard to reduce beauty to just 1 definition. Great video analysis.

[@Hawkido]

Beauty is that which defies entropy. That which survives when it shouldn't. That which is built up when it should have been torn down. That which is somehow more than the sum of its parts. That lone flower that survives by splitting the concrete in a city sidewalk. The mind that has developed past its peers and discovers/invents something that has never existed before and changes the world.

[@Hawkido]

The lone soldier who stands in the way of an enemy army and somehow halts the army in its tracks. The person who has endured extreme trauma, yet still performs the needed tasks when their body should have already failed.

[@whirlwind872]

2 more things to consider. 1 is the evolutionary basis for our appreciation of beauty. Because we're human, and the human brain evolved to optimize survival and procreation, it is worthwhile to consider how identifying beauty could enhance our survival. Our capacity to appreciate physical beauty may be fundamentally different from our appreciation of narrative beauty. We are attracted to physical beauty because (evolutionarily speaking) those traits are indicative of superior fitness, and thus superior survivability for your prospective offspring. Narrative beauty may resonate with us because storytelling has been so vital to horizontal transmission of information across our species. The ability to convey complex ideas in simple and engaging stories would be an enormous advantage for survival. Because in prehistoric times, the stories around the campfire would be recounting their daily experiences - thus other humans can learn how to engage with danger without directly encountering it themselves. So both increased our chances of survival, and that's why we are drawn to these things, but it doesn't answer why we specifically use the word "beautiful" rather than any other term representing positive emotionality. Personally I think it boils down to my 2nd point - linguistic determinism and the imprecision of language (specifically English in this case). I'm confident that other languages exist with distinct words for what we consider under the umbrella of "beauty" in English To elaborate on linguistic determinism: the words we use to describe things often define their nature in our minds. For example, most people think of "red" and "dark red" as variations of a single color. But "orange" and "brown" we think of as entirely distinct colors, even though brown is literally just "dark orange." But since we have different words for orange and brown, we think of them as categorically distinct. All these different forms of beauty may be """"beauty""”" in the way that red, dark red, and light red are all red. But in another language, each form of beauty may have a distinct word just like orange and brown. Therefore, the entire premise of our question may be flawed. We are trying to figure out why so many different things evoke a sense of beauty, and why "beauty" is the word we use to describe all of them. But maybe it's just a natural consequence of the weaknesses of English as a language. Maybe our entire frame of thinking about this topic is flawed because we have too much faith in our ability to categorize reality into distinct boxes with labels on them. In reality our brains are fundamentally kludge-like and only had to be good enough to survive, our brains didn't evolve to be perfectly coherent and without contradiction. This kludge-like nature of our psyche means that we should exercise skepticism with concern our ability to label and categorize things. We can often label and categorize things in nonsensical or suboptimal ways, and throwing all these distinct concepts into a single box labeled "beauty" may just be one of the shortcomings of our language and psychology. It could be a bug rather than a feature.

[@JD-ym4cz]

I find beauty in all your videos

[@camilaGMW]

Now I really want an analisys on the beauty of Heike Monogatari.

[@alienweeb1701]

the real tragedy is schnee using light mode on discord

[@jasonghoul3691]

Did expect Ryujin to pop up in tragic beauty video

[@ambregille549]

To me. I specifically find a category of scenes beautiful for one reason: justice. Not justice with law, but justice for oneself. I'm thinking about the last scene from Arcane with Jinx firing the gun. The song really says it all. "What could have been" and in a certain sense, what isn't because of YOU. It would be wrong to stay Jinx has no fault at all for what is going on, she does. But not all of it, far from all of it. Basically saying "look what your actions have for consequences, instead of saying it's my fault because i pressed the trigger, look what you did to me, and in turn to everyone you care about". Because so many "evil deads" could be avoided if people sincerely cared a little more. There also the idea of "You've been labeling me a monster this whole time, without even trying to give any help or consideration, maybe the shadow of it but never true one, well see what a monster I can truly be." Its terrible, but to me there is beauty in this as a justice for oneself. What makes it further tragic however is that that moment of half justice, is not enough, and isn't repairing anything. That's why more and more bad deeds happen over and over again with bigger intensity, because the previous ones just weren't enough, not the real justice a person seeks.

[@whisperedthund3r]

This video makes me hope that schnee will watch EXU: Calamity someday. Oh all the bajillion actual-plays out there I think it's the most beautiful, for many of the reasons discussed in this video. Everything falls apart perfectly.

[@hendristeyn6853]

Great take. Would love to hear more and from the sounds of it other like-minded. How do I join the discord?

[@Thenoobestgirl]

10:29 ruthlessness* + love

[@Piearty]

There is a classical definition of tragedy as described in Aristotle's Poetics (it's described on Wikipedia along with other definitions like Shakespearean and Hegelian). if you haven't looked at it yet it may help your theories. It fits with your understanding of beauty as thematic coherence and inevitability - the tragic hero has a core fatal flaw (fatal as in 'fate') that leads to their downfall. For this character in these circumstances, it was always going to turn out this way.

[@simelune-512]

SIGNALIS is so beautifully tragic

[@Zephirite.]

Tragedy is more rewarding than happy endings because tragedy doesn't lie. Our happiness is constantly undercut by the looming fear of pain (not death, only the pain it causes), so happiness is only beautiful when it makes us forget it won't last. Therefore, happy endings feel oblivious. Meaningful tragedies that know pain will happen but find meaning alongside it is the ultimate solution to how to live despite that fear. Contentment is an existential balm. Happiness is fickle. It's a status, not an emotion. Both tragedy and triumph are seeking contentment, fulfillment. There's no fulfillment in ignorance, but with so much pain seeping in from every direction, it feels like we have to relinquish actually looking at the world because we'll just get hurt. Tragedies stare at the world and even if the characters don't survive, they can find some healing in that honesty. And in that, they fight back against what people fear about death; feeling discontent at the one moment where they can do nothing to change it. That's why the outcome doesn't matter; a character can keep living or die but if they feel content, then they've already won. There's nothing left to do.

[@ChibiMalzahar]

imo the two most beautiful moments of one piece [MANGA SPOILERS] are totally different. It's when Merry comes for them and says "I came for you!". It is so earnest and simple, but it feels impossible and almost supernatural. A fucking boat came to life and sailed into a war zone and its like how the fuck did that even happen there's so much confusion, so much baggage surrounding what happened with Merry in the first place and in a moment we get it. It's here for them, because it loves them just as much as they loved it. All the pain that was spent worrying about it, even though it's literally just a boat, was validated. They found this moment of joy and relief and love at the absolute end of days. The second is the big manga spoiler, which is Gear 5. This to me is beautiful from a creative standpoint because I could sense how much it meant to ODA. In the highest stakes battle, longest plotline, most prototypical shounen war in One Piece to date, and Oda makes Luffy's big chosen one super saiyan final transformation THAT. The most ridiculous, silly, joyful, and freeing power in the world. it is one of the grandest depicitons of creative freedom I have *ever* seen

[@QazwerDave]

The moment when it works

[@carimeslockdownedtree2654]

Listening to the meaning of beauty as I take a morning stroll around town, before many people are around and when the sun is warm yet not scorching. Seems fitting. Edit: 13:20 you're right. I think I'll turn the video off for now and continue it at home. This is much too beautiful to get distracted by audio and visuals. Just let myself be immersed in the moment. Even if that means hearing construction at times.

[@ragnarian]

Damn of love to see you breakdown Astartes It's almost voiceless like holomyths bad ending But there is loads of story I'd also like to see the wh3 immortal empires trailer breakdown That shit was just epic, like an avengers engage level to me!

[@kasra_mlg]

Arcane is just amazing

[@evennot]

For me the answer is a bit different. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So the beauty is just a resonance. To put it a bit more poetic, the author translates the feeling/phenomenon into some kind of a signal (audio-visual or text or performance or whatever), and when the beholder's soul (feelings/ambitions/personality) resonates with this signal it can create the feeling of beauty. And regarding Arcane-style tragedy, it's the mix of feeling of irrepairability and something hope-like. Everyone knows the feeling of when something important is beyond repair and you can't overcome the objective reality. You know that you can just "burn it all down" to at least make a statement, but you can't, because it'll be useless. And then you see it done in fiction and have a bit of resonance. IMHO

[@graceblakemore177]

A show I think is the quintessential example of beautiful tragedy is Violet Evergarden. In each episode there is a new form of tragedy and how it impacts the characters is beautiful. I would love to see your take on the writing of that show.

[@peacefuldawn6823]

Man, where were you when I was studying this module in philosophy class?

[@Dreymasmith]

Really interesting analysis of beautiful tragedy. Although I would argue against the inclusion of Romeo and Juliet as it is really a black comedy rather than a tragedy.

[@minecraftsteve2504]

Oh hey look, the video finally came out Took it long enough The conversation exhausted me, I can't even use the word in conversation anymore, because of how much it was tossed around, it's lost its meaning to me In the same way that, saying "I love you" too much, it loses its meaning So now I can't even hear, see, or speak the world properly without feeling icky Edit: also, watch demon slayer :)

[@confusedturtle183]

Does the access to the discord server only last as long as I'm a patron? Would love to be a part of the community, but I definitely can't afford a monthly subscription. Also, great video once again, your uploads always cheer me up.

[@schnee1]

it would appear (from my admin's hasty uncertain research) that you stay in the server... we think? you may lose your role as a patron and in turn receive unbearable soul crushing social embarrassment (jk jk), but we'd love to have you if you decide to join!!

[@schnee1]

also, fair warning, this could change (and imminently, now that both of us just discovered this, gotta figure out whats best for the server), but for now and the near future, anyone who joins will stay even if we do eventually change how it works (ie you'll be grandfathered in with the old policy)

[@speedcuber8037]

For me beauty in math is e^(iπ)=-1 every symbol relates to different sections of math from integers to claculus but this equation is true

[@luciaterry2600]

Jinx' actions also feel necessary by the end, it seems silly when you think about it that the all-powerful oppressors of Piltover could suddenly wave a magic wand and "grant" Zaun it's peace. When I think deeply about it, I start to ask "From their understanding aren't they handing the undercity off to a ring of drug lords?" "Are they just going to walk out of Zaun leaving a power vacuum in which civil war might ensue?" "Is it enough to grant Zaun independence after the routine and systematic oppression they have suffered at the hands of Piltover?" My thinking begets no, so we subconsciously support Jinx in her decision to attack. Like the philosophy in How to Blow Up A Pipeline, some people believe that the only way to resolve oppression in through violent means, and it could be true. We watch this theory enacted in the final moments of the show. I think it also speaks to the relationship between Powder and Jinx, in the end it is Jinx who is the sure-shooter, who's inventions have never failed, and delivers us suredly into the final act. Powder is representational of her weakness, not Jinx. Her innocence and fear is the inhibition of a necessary violence, attack, and retribution; from the perspective of Zaun we feel we deserve these things. The keepers of peace are the ones who conflate Jinx and Powder, seeing Jinx as the chaotic evil that will destroy what they value more than anything (peace), and Powder is the fearful child who will submit to it (inertia). So when Silco says that Jinx is perfect, we get a layered understanding of his theology (his Malcom X/gorilla warfare) and his love for his creation. I feel that this broadens our perspective about this tragedy, just like the end of TLOU, we are somewhat proud of the bad decisions, we know that they are selfish, but it is the only solution to the story.

[@Tale_Teach]

talk about guardians of the galaxy vol 3 the rabbit understanding things Rocket couldn't. Or Yondu Udanda's deph, (similarities with treasure planet and treasure island = the tough father)

[@Lookatthisguy0017]

Bruh if we have Jinx as Harley Quinn then we have Shaco as joker 🎉😂

[@IlyaKokoev]

So question "What is beauty?" really did fall within the purview of our conundrums of philosophy. Probably not a problem to ask a solution for from an Engineer friend.

[@paulwilson6449]

Don't know how much this adds to the conversation but for a while now i've been looking at beauty from a Christian perspective. Defining beauty as what happens when we can see creation reflect the nature of God. Like looking at his shadow or finger prints. As if for a moment you just felt a giant pass by silently, carefully but with unimaginable power. Thats just one aspect tho. There is to much in God and to many ways his beauty reflects on to our world to sum up simply. but something i've noticed is beauty doesn't feel subjective it feels found, but only cause it wants you to see what its pointing towards, who its pointing towards. Beauty is perposed, its sent out, it calls. Beauty feels like a who, not a what. I never feel alone when I'm experiencing beauty. Sorry for the rambling im as much exploring this as i am righting it.

[@drcarrotphd4423]

the most tragic part of this video was the fact that... you use discord light mode

[@teddysquid9556]

I love the video but I have one question, WHY DO YOU USE DISCORD LIGHT MODE AHHHH MY EYES!?!

[@SeyhawksNow]

I think the end goal, the central idea of Arcane is one word: change. The story has every character face this inevitability that we ourselves face. Nothing lasts forever. Nothing stays the exact same. You could come home again but it'll never feel like the same place you were a kid in. In the end, there's only one character that absolutely realizes that change means you can never go back to the way things were, and it wasn't Vi. It was Jinx.

[@jonasgodwin8888]

Where is the last footage of the snow town from?

[@RizztrainingOrder]

Genuine question would a story like Arcane work if the character like ekko switched with Jinx? Brothers torn apart by circumstances etc. You get it, a Similiar type story but with several characters or things switched as necessary. Would it be as intriguing and impactful?

[@choc_milk]

schnee please the real tragedy in this video is your discord screenshots in light mode💀

[@schnee1]

😈

[@louisvictor3473]

Hmm, maybe I should have made my "Joel saved humanity" comment on this video instead of in the Why So Few Zombies one :v Long story short, the humanity of last of us already fucked up and nearly anihilated itself, but by chance it managed to survive and it is recovering, and redefining itself, what it means to be a civilization. In this world, going back to how things were isn't a good plan. A cure sure could be useful, but only if used to merely help even more people from dying, and not to try to go back to the way it was, the way that got them here in the first place. No thanks. And there is no real way back, all the dead would still be dead, all the trauma and wounds would still be there. Joel moved forward through his paint, and this was his life now. And so too must the world, move forward through its pain, this is the world now, and the only way through, is through.

[@daddylonglegs2518]

the real tragedy is discord light mode :(

[@collincutler4992]

I found beauty in episode 3 of Arcane in that we had always seen Silco as this emotionless and cruel warlord, yet he sat down in the rain and comforted this little girl in front of all his troops. He took a chance to seem weak in front of his men, which in turn showed strength.

[@schnee1]

true, the moment of him showing tenderness def was beautiful as a moment

[@microdavid7098]

I thought episode 3 was really beautiful and really tragic. Characters try to do the insurmountable by wanting to save a muscular kidnapped adult from others but the villain used this as a trap. But they fight to survive and protect themselves and the dynamic of the fight shows hope and the loss of hope as the episode continues. Powder disobeys Vi to prove she's worth it but botches everything causing a horrible tragedy, causing Vi to lose everyone. A friendship between Vi and Powder ends then with her father figure dead in front of her, making her mourn and be filled with regret. She gets angry and slaps her sister when she realizes it was her fault as she shows despite her love for her, she also loved everyone else similarly and could be carried away, but even after slapping her, she loved her and didn't want her taken away. The villain accepts her. We thought he would kill her, but he accepts her. I found it both horrifying and beautiful, how tragedy, hate, compassion and love, can all coincide in a very neat way in a horrifying event. That one person loving another don't always see each other eye to eye and that someone who we can fail to see friends can sometimes be more compassionate. I was left wanting to know more but I was entranced by both the emotions this left. Care, hope, distress, grief, remorse, regret, compassion and apathy. It was wrapped beautifully and cohesively without being melodramatic

[@microdavid7098]

I found episode 3 to be one of the most beautiful episodes. It also had that perspective expanding moments where you realize anyone could die

[@collincutler4992]

@microdavid yeah, this episode really set the "Game of Thrones" type of tone for the series ..in that no one is really safe.

[@RizztrainingOrder]

Definitely, but when I'm infected with societal norms I find it difficult to write male characters in situations like that, wether the character is non imposing physically or an absolute unit, it's usually considered weakness when they are being tender, or caring regardless wether they are warmongers or a pacifist. So confusing

[@GergelyGyurics]

Great analysis as always, but I was missing something that I'd like to contribute: the mention of the positive function of pain. No one will probably see this comment burried under the others, but let's try it anyways. So, what is pain? We like to think that pain is the cornerstone of suffering, it's something bad and something we need to avoid. But pain is actually the blessing of evolution. The feeling of pain signals us that we are about the lose something that is important to our survival in the most basic sense of the word. You cut your foot? If you live as an early hunter gatherer human, you might not be able to keep up with others and will be hunted down by predators or just die of thirst or hunger. Emotional pain is almost the same, even the brain areas involved are overlaping. When you lose something or are about to lose something you NEED, you feel pain. This is evolution's way of trying to nudge you to avoid the loss. But it's not always possible. So you lose someone in a tragic way, what happens? Pain comes to remind you that you are injured, something you NEEDED is lost. And at those dark and sad moments you are deeply and profoundly CONNECTED TO the VALUES you've just lost. When your garden is burnt down, you can't stop and smell the rose anymore, but suddenly you are FORCED to remember the smell, and it's not something you can ever forget. In those infinitely long and still so evanescent moments people are broken or remade. And sometimes it depens on whether or not you can realize THE REASON WHY you NEEDED those VALUES.

[@schnee1]

wow beautifully said!

[@GergelyGyurics]

@@schnee1 thank you. :)

[@atinysoftbean1645]

I'm not crying, you are crying! *sniff*

[@smcasas9367]

Strangely enough, I find Chernobyl to have some very beautiful scenes and most come from essentially honor in a corrupt world. For example, when the general says he'll go there himself or when the workers decide to volunteer.

[@spoodergwen]

My favourite scene was Valery and Boris sitting on a bench having an existentional conversation with Boris suddenly stopping to appreciate the beauty of a small catterpillar crawling by, just after admitting to Valery he has about a year to live. For the first time he really just stopped and smelled the roses and it´s such a bitter-sweet moment, it made me cry.

[@smcasas9367]

@@spoodergwen Pretty sure that some of Nietzsche's writing can be interpreted roughly thusly: If nothing else really matters, at least we can enjoy some of the beauty in this world.

[@Jaqoum_The_Wizard_King]

Beauty in a tragedy, to me, is a feeling: either “It didn’t have to end this way” or “it could only ever have ended this way.” And it was enhanced in arcane by Ella Purnell’s perfect delivery

[@jackllewellynkramer]

Yes l, exactly. I think there's a ton of beauty in an ending that could've ended the complete opposite and be happy, but then at the last moment one tiny thing changes everything into a tragedy.

[@marar8045]

I think most of us will agree that ep 3 of TLOU is beautiful. I also love how it’s a summary of the entire season. It foreshadows everything and preps us for what’s to come.

[@jmelizbian9854]

I don't think the beauty of anger and fear should be set aside here. The scene you're talking about with Joel is inherently one of anger, no just sadness. I think I would define beauty in storytelling is an emotion being VISCERALLY VALIDATED. For example, the core urge/base of anger is justice. Joel is sad, but he's also angry, seeking to get justice for Ellie's death. Jinx is seeking justice for how the people of Zaun had been wronged, and how she had been wronged. I think fear is a little more complicated... What comes to mind first is that there are somethings that one may fear, but another find beautiful.

[@justacat869]

I think one beautiful aspect of fear is courage. Because there is the saying that "courage is not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it." In a world where no one is safe and fear is everywhere, having someone act and try to change things and give people hope is beautiful. And we think that person is fearless, but they're often not. They're often just as scared as everyone else is but they decide to act in spite of their fear.

[@secondeye1574]

Beauty is too broad for me, but in terms of tragedy I think you clicked into the overall feeling but it's made up of two actually conflicting ideas 1 - This was inevitable (Emphasis on causality) 2 - This could have been avoided (Still emphasis on causality) So ultimately, whether it's me trying to make these two completely paradoxical ideas mesh together or it's a real thing going on here, I think tragedy often has this hyper focus on the causal chain of events leading up to whatever the moment is that causes the tragedy

[@cassiopeiasfire6457]

Ooh, brilliant! I tend to not like the inevitability aspect of tragedy, because there are always other options, but that's an amazing way to think about it, it's inevitable and not inevitable at the same time, that's how all of our choices work, that's the paradox of free will. Tragedy isn't something that we have no control over, but also isn't something we have all the control over, it has to be this mix of both, and focusing in on the pain of that paradox via a terrible ending... wow, I might actually be able to write tragic endings to my stories now, thanks! I gotta think about this more.

[@secondeye1574]

@@cassiopeiasfire6457 Lol no problem, thanks to you too for the validation Free will kind of is like that. And topics like chaos, luck, etc. At some point it becomes hard to conceptualize because they blend together despite being concepts designed to create dichotomies. Maybe it's because we really just have monkey brains and we're not supposed to be thinking about these inherently cerebral concepts that are hard to grasp. But interesting to think about nonetheless.

[@cassiopeiasfire6457]

@@secondeye1574 ​ I think it's just the nature of concepts. The universe is one thing, but we have to divide it into concepts to think about it, but then it's hard to think in other concepts or transcend those categories. But we can do it tho! We're conscious blobs of cells, it's a miracle that we're able to understand anything, respectfully, fuck what we're not "supposed" to be thinking about :)

[@ser_saffron]

You hit the nail on the head with how I characterize tragedy. Take Arcane, for instance. Any number of single actions could've prevented the ending from going the way it did, but at the same time, you get the feeling that there's no other way the story could've ended.

[@trance_im_wald2907]

For me, one of the most tragically beautiful scenes in all of media is the discussion between Kiritsugu and the holy grail about not being able to save all of humanity in Fate/Zero. The scene, of course, is very tragic and bitter, because we know that our hero essentially failed. But that's not all there is to it. The beauty COMES through the quiet island and contemplation that make up the scene. The palm trees and stars somehow also give us a sense of the unnatural and we stand before it in awe. My personal favorite anime for sure.

[@tacostastegreat5557]

YES, Fate/Zero is in my top three favorite anime. I liked it way more than Stay Night.

[@Henle_]

This essay is beautiful. At the beginning we are haphazardly dealing with a lot of definitions of beauty. We want to find it. We want to define it. Chaos. So schnee answers the call and begins on a quest. With the entire schnee patreon disc to back him up, he gathers opinions and knowledge from many other brilliant minds. With a canvas schnee brushes the first strokes: 4 ideas. Slowly but surely it formulates. Using the expanse of already amazing stories like Arcane, Last of Us, etc. we finally find it. From there we can define the power of tragedy. I don't know about others, but the sense of epiphany and "Yes! that's it!" connects to me on a deep level; since I can more fully define the beauty of the best stories I've seen/read (per animation, Bluey's Sleepytime, Flat Pack, Space, and Baby Race, and Hilda's The Witch, Fifty Year Night, and Deerfox come to mind). Thank you schnee and community, we need people like ya'll

[@arkansky]

Rarely can I sit through 25 minutes of unhalted lecture, but schnee makes it too easy. Anyway, rambling time ! It's funny because despite Arcane being one of my favorite stories, I did not find *beauty* in the same places than you. I've never seen this rocket ending as a satisfying accomplishment, but always as a terrifying turning point. Maybe it's the nature of the media, a show that is vowed to have a sequel, or maybe it is because I'm unconsciously stuck with a premade idea of Jinx as a LoL character. But after watching this ending, all I could think about was the consequences of her act, and it scared me way more than it saddened me. I was scared that her sister would not forgive her, that Pilltover/Zaun would never find peace, that the characters I loved would die in the explosion. I was left expecting more to the story and I could not find in episode 9 the beauty that struck me in episode 3 for comparison. The death of these characters really marked this episode as an end to Jinx's "child arc" to me, thus bringing that *absolute simplicity* from an intricate mess (in addition to the *tenderness in a strife-driven world* that I *surprisingly* found in the character of Silco) and that is what drew a beautiful scar in my mind, if that makes sense. I just think it's funny to see that I've come to fully agree with tis video's representations of beauty despite not having the exact same reference examples as you.

[@schnee1]

Interesting! Yeah, it does sound like the same idea, but we had different experiences as far as what emotional lacks captured our focus and prevented us from basking in the moment

[@lorinctoth9402]

6:23 I think both Tamar's and Ben's explonation fits why that scene is beutiful. Not just because of the tenderness, but because of how we see Rue pass away (in peace, tenderness again). But we experience it as her. From her point of view. We hear Katniss sing, we see the trees and the sky, and how they slowly shift out from focus. And presenting her death this way is surprising and novel. Also ties back to the first comment from how we REALLY see something. We saw characters die and pass away, but not like this. What I'm trying to say is, that overall, there can be more than one reason that makes something beautiful.

[@descendingintodreams1768]

Beauty is heavily, heavily subjective but it really can just be described as awe and wonder that is so overwhelming you’re at a loss for words while having so many feelings about it. It’s captivating, off guard, and near a perfection we crave because it feels so powerful. Regardless of how imperfect it actually is it leaves the impression of something whole, deep, and nuanced. This nuance doesn’t have to be comfortable in order to leave an impact which is why so many people debate on what beauty is.

[@phrinus]

That is exactly what I felt towards the "Dark era" part of Bungo stray dogs. It's full of these tender moments of such extreme emotion to me. It's like characters are not speaking with a calm and somber tone in these moments, but screaming their lungs out: "I am in pain! Help me! Save me!" How perfect every little moment of it is, be it simple, like a character playing with children or eating curry or somebody dropping a depressing statement in the middle of a casual conversation, especially in retrospect, when you know how and when and why everything's going to go to shit, it's just... perfect. It doesn't help that one of the characters is an uncommon archetype I happened to relate to since childhood. It pains me just how underrated BSD is.

[@molello1120]

I completly agree!Thank u for saying something about BSD becouse this show is absolutly beautyful and more people should know about it.

[@mr.cantplayaninstrument8402]

beauty is found in contrast there is beauty in simplicity, also in complexity The Absurd can both take it away or add to it it's where meaninglessness and meaning collide, where opposites can both exist harmoniously tragedy is beautiful because tho it is steeped in negativity, what we take away from it can lead to positivity in our lives, lessons learned a masterpiece, suddenly fiction is real.

[@andv993]

My man really pulled a "let me define beauty" moment. And it worked

[@avourrito1819]

To me and as subjective it is, Psychology is wonderful. The absolute wonder how we can feel different emotions when exposed to different kinds of scenarios. All the well known emotions if they are placed to build up to certain actions, can be magnificent to analyse the whole thing like flipping through a book. Real or fantasy tragedies that can make your skin crawl, the ones that can make you breakdown crying at the emptiness, ones that makes you feel lost for days afterwards. I never forget the wonder I felt answering the questions in a math exam with ease even though I dislike math with a passion, I felt invincible. And I won't forget my heart thumping to the loudspeakers standing in the front row of the first concert I ever experienced. Life itself is beauty for you to find behold.

[@carallaa]

NEW SCHNEE VIDEO MY DAY IS SAVED

[@optiona3667]

Holy shit. This video is a goldmine! So many great ideas and concepts around writing and story telling that I have been trying to wrap my head around for years. Thank you so much for making this brilliant essay. I am so heavily inspired. You do great work!

[@cassiopeiasfire6457]

My thought that I'd like to add is not how tragedy is beautiful, but a part of why I think we value beauty in tragedy so much... Pain and ending are inevitable parts of life. Beauty comes easily to us in other parts, it's easy to feel happy about a happy ending. But being able to feel beauty about a painful ending, that's difficult, that takes artistry and perspective. And it makes us more connected to our own lives and others, it creates meaning in the pains in our lives that might otherwise feel meaningless. And I think this brings together both concepts you talked about: it integrates positive and negative emotions, and it also makes a coherent whole, not so much out of a particular story here, but out of LIFE. Life can so often feel divided into wonderful things and terrible things, but tragic beauty unifies the experience of life, finds beauty in the pain, connects us to parts of our lives we might like to write off and makes something meaningful out of them. And that's difficult to do, technically and emotionally, but it's something that feels incredibly important to an expansive experience of being human. And it's not confined to art, we can experience beautiful tragedy in real life, but like all difficult emotions and experiences, art is a powerful tool to help us experience those things.

[@sugarjoe8]

When you spoke about the journey from chaos to order I noticed that's the opposite of the theory of entropy (that the universe becomes less ordered over time). A story that I consider to be one of the most beautiful ever told is Outer Wilds. Somewhat contradictively, Outer Wilds is about entropy. I think there's layers. You can have a story about chaos or about order and that's boring, or you can have a story about the transition from chaos to order and that's beautiful, or you can have a story about the relentless failure to transition chaos into order, and the eventual acceptance of disorder. And that's a higher beauty still.

[@schnee1]

wow thats is a really interesting theory, that means our attraction to beauty could be like a deep reaction formation to our fear of annihilation/death, gotta think on that one more!

[@sugarjoe8]

Ok there's something here. I want to tie it to our fascination with apocalypse stories in recent years. Something interesting as that all your examples are, for lack of a better word, apocalypse... Adjacent? And I think that's because we see the parallel to our current experience (you know the whole world is boiling, animals are dying, ai is arguably becoming sentient, and corporations are exploiting us situation we find ourselves in). But even more interesting is how the apocalypse story has changed throughout the years. It used to be that the apocalypse stories were either about overcoming the chaos, finding the cure etc. (World war Z, hunger games, maze runner, etc) or about rebuilding after the apocalypse (the walking dead) But now, more often then not, the really good apocalypse stories are about accepting what it means to be mortal and small in something bigger than yourself -and reconsidering what's important in that frame of mind (the last of us, arcane, outer wilds)

[@sugarjoe8]

To add to that final list, I'd also include station 11 in the list of acceptance stories

[@schnee1]

@@sugarjoe8 Ooh very true! We may be onto something here! I wanted to share this other comment I got: "I just watched Puss in Boots the Last Wish yesterday and there was a moment when you completely understand Puss and where he's at in his fear and (while for me the fear wasn't there) I understood his fear because I could see myself in him. It's that heart-belief tie that I was connecting with in that moment. I would say that's even stronger than the survival catharsis. Now that I think about it, perhaps the bigger appeal is understanding the character in their heart-beliefs and as such, feeling understood yourself." To which I quoted you and replied: "there was this other great comment tying beauty to reversing entropy, which i speculated was seeing beauty as linked to an existential fear of annihilation -- SEEMS like it could fit with what you're saying, feeling understood, feeling validated is essentially feeling real, its like you're acknowledging and confirming your own existence in a time when you're feel most non-existent"

[@bzzzzzzzzzz2075]

Aaaa I adore your process in these videos. I get so much insight I never get otherwise. You make defining your terms into a whole journey! The nuance and the self critiques at the end keep me thinking. Idk Your uploads are like brain food lol

[@LiterallyMarieee]

Ive asked myself this a lot. Personally i find tragic characters beautiful rather than situations/scenes/moments i still can’t really put words to it but this video certainly helps.

[@lolli_popples]

It’s interesting you mentioned the Hunger Games because I *would* describe the books and their tragedy as beautiful in a similar way to Arcane’s tragedy. I was thinking about them when you starting mentioning stuff in the category. But yeah definitely not the movies lol.

[@jjjjoooyyy]

this is so much fun to think about i think maybe beauty (or a part of beauty) is contrast. A positive contrast married over a negative contrast. A sunset is a beautiful light on a broken world. Vi and Jinx being reunited is a contrast to the trauma that Jinx has gone through. Jinx's completion of identity is a contrast to Silco's death, as well as the death that's about to happen. And like your math friend said it can be simple and surprising in its simplicity contrasted to it's perceived complication. Thinking about some more moments with tragic beauty, and I feel like it can happen when certain things work out but others don't. When the goal and the thing that the characters really truly care about comes to fruition, but there is a cost to either them or those around them or other things they care about. Like when Romeo and Juliette are finally together, their goal is fulfilled, but it's in a really devastating way. Or when Jinx and Vi finally meet but it's a such a cost Jinx's mind, and I would consider the moment they hug beautiful., it's just not a long drawn out moment because they are immediately attacked and it goes into action again. I think that's another point that you had too, which is time. Time to be in the moment and feel the drawn out emotion that the whole story has been crafted and built up to. I also think it's interesting how in real life, we don't like experiencing this type of tragedy and probably don't find it beautiful in the moment. In the story, the characters don't appreciate how tragically beautiful it is. But we like to watch it. I wonder what that says about humanity. also lol i never use words like "perceived" and "fruition" normally, but every time i watch one of your videos my brain goes in to "schnee mode" and starts racing at a million miles per hour. it's so much fun

[@vismaykedilaya1318]

i think another form of beauty is the sense of relatability you get from something which sums up the story of your life to an almost scary degree of accuracy. i can name 2 examples of shows that do this: Ms. Marvel and Arcane. Ms. Marvel is a lot more optimistic and cheerful. here, it's relatable in such away that it's heartwarming and beautiful to see that these problems aren't my own. With Arcane, I get Jinx/Powder on a frighteningly similar level. it's a reality check done in the best way possible, "Oh crap. If i can see myself in Powder, what about Jinx" but then it made me stop to appreciate the effort it took to get that response from me, and that's beautiful.

[@chillmill_08]

NO WAY RYUJIN IS MY FAV TOO