Why is Warhammer So Expensive? Games Workshops Pricing Model Explained

[@GhostHuntsman]

Shout out to all the independent gaming stores all over the world who sell at a discount. Without them, I wouldn't be in this hobby.

[@HappyNoob17YT]

Miniature Market is a very good place for America.

[@Questioningbasics]

Mostly because GW lets them. Hopefully they don't take this away.

[@antoninjanku3358]

​@@Questioningbasicsif they do, 3D printing will take over

[@thehonestaspy102]

Same, without Mighty Lancer Games offering a discount I'd have far far less Warhammer

[@jack-a-lopium]

Independent gaming stores like Wayland Games...

[@FrogDog-uf3iv]

The part of the cost that I have a hard time with is how much it has increased over my time in the hobby. $20 for 16 Dark Elf spearmen felt doable. They are now $40 for 10 and haven't gotten a new sculpt.

[@richardjohnstone1374]

I'm a new SM player and that is fucked by GW mate. Hope you guys get some love soon

[@stevehall364]

​@@richardjohnstone1374you say it's fucked but they've done this across all systems and ranges. Bloodbowl is 40% more expensive than 3-4 years ago

[@richardjohnstone1374]

@stevehall364 so... it is still in fact, fucked?

[@eskhaphey2873]

back in 3rd edition 16 gaunts was £17.50... it is no £30 for 10...

[@MitchUnger-fq3bo]

How much was gas then? Inflation and just in generally costs have gone up. Fuel is gone way up. Food prices. House prices. It’s unfortunate. I agree it’s more expensive and it is a little pricy for plastic. Shipping prices have gone way up. Everything. It’s not just this hobby.

[@sergeantrattus6149]

As an Australian thank you for explaining why I need to sell my soul for 3 gray minis

[@makeitrain280]

Yesterday I went out to go buy some gundam models from a local store and for roughly the same price as 1 primaris intercessor squad ($51 USD with their discounts) I was able to buy 3 gundam models (1 guncannon gundam for $30, 1 barbatos gundam for $13, and 1 guntank for $10).

[@trollwholivesu7258]

It is interesting to see the difference in prices between warhammer, other miniatures, and other plastic model kits (scale and gundam)

[@sheridoncary2602]

Honestly it just shows how greedy GW is at least with gunpla you can get more than 1 kit with 60 bucks

[@skilledwarman]

@@sheridoncary2602 For the cost of that new knight model I could get the Full Mechanics Aerial, its LED conversion kit, some third party water slides, paint to give it a more metallic look, and a display stand. And I say that because i've done exactly that (the LEDs are on preorder still)

[@WompaStompaCyn]

I just started collecting Transformers and it kind blew my mind how much better value for the money they are. I just got a 9 inch tall transforming robot dinosaur for less than the price for a unit of bladeguard vets. Got me considering just dropping warhammer.

[@milktenders6219]

A 60$ Gundam kit is fully featured and has 5 times the plastic, and it a fully articulated figure. Yet GW minis are still more expensive, it still baffles the mind

[@milktenders6219]

@@WompaStompaCynsometimes I feel that too, I like warhammer, but holy shit

[@Frostblitz20]

I can tell you as a former data analyst for Amazon who had to deal with pulling data for profit and cost. 1- shipping in bulk isn’t as insanely priced as you think it’s roughly $1200 to ship a single intermodal from California to massachusetts. A lot of kits are now being made in USA now as you can see on box it says designed in UK made in United States. The boxes Amazon use with the custom logos cost between .55 - 6.00 depending on graphic design and size of said box. The smaller the box the cheaper they are if you buy in bulk from internal paper which is our supplier. I can’t speak for mold cost or plastic but I’m willing to bet the actual expenses is around 15-20$ usd max for majority of things..

[@vermin9190]

for mold cost its way cheaper maybe 5 at most for an angron model cast and that would probably be someone ripping them off. its not that much for mold injection and mold cast a couple of years (3-4 yrs now that i think about it) it was 0.5-0.15 cents usd for an angron sized model. gw known for upscaling up the ass and most to all of their profit is coming from video games. they make enough from that they can lower the kits to 5 usd for the basic inf 20 usd for knight sized kit.

[@p3BA]

One mold is roughly 30-60 k depending on complexity, size and weight.

[@lewisbenzie845]

The boxes Amazon uses are single colour mass produced templated pieces. Not full colour high resolution.

[@jaysherman2615]

The molds themselves could vary a lot in price. If they are making a single frame per mold, then we are probably talking 40k with a 110 ton machine which is another 50k or so on top of that. If it is the whole model kit in one go, then it is probably an 80k mold with a 220 ton machine. These molds generally last a thousand or so cycles before needing a good cleaning and overall maintenance. The material per model frame is going to be roughly 80 cents or so for the good stuff.

[@Veles343]

@@vermin9190 they really don't, they made £19.9m in profit on licensing on their last accounts on a total profit of £170.2m. They are a plastic manufacturer and the vast majority of their profits come from manufacturing profit

[@Trauson]

Well I think they are being cheeky here theywere like hey yeah warhammer we are doing some money and is like... you know we could ACTUALLY put less models so people they dont hoard them for years and we can get more revenue from them. They are going to buy them anyways... HA HA HA HA

[@Trauson]

Also remember the days when characters used to be less than 15 € ....

[@ScreamingTc]

I remember when you could pick up a metal dreadnoughts for £6, and whole terminator squads were £13..

[@Trauson]

@@ScreamingTc Sometimes Im glad I bought stuff in the past so I dont need to pay for them in the future.... but sometimes im like... at what cost...

[@clinch4402]

​@@ScreamingTcThe worst thing is when you get people like MWMinis acting like salaries were like £5000 back then. No they weren't lmao

[@lewisbenzie845]

And you'll remember that £6 is worth 23 quid after inflation. The GBP has lost 74% of its value since 1985

[@SuccessionLockon]

my friends and i have came back from 6th to play 10th, most of our gamer group have decent jobs so dont mind buying stuff, but a few other friends who want to get involved are shocked when they see the prices. even from third party sellers. i cant blame them, in 6th, a box of troops was £14, now its £30 (from wayland games)

[@lewisbenzie845]

Well factoring inflation..... like an adult, that box of troops today would be £21 and a decade out of style. Dont know if youve noticed but new minis are very detailed.

[@Malky24]

@@lewisbenzie845 "Well factoring inflation..... like an adult" Yikes.

[@SuccessionLockon]

@@lewisbenzie845 110% inflation in 9 years..... Very adult

[@croftyprojects]

Good point about inflation, but bad point about model quality, as cost of producing such quality has decreased due to technological innovations

[@maxmagnus377]

@@lewisbenzie845 Except that I could buy a box of 10 dire avengers for ~24 euros when they released, and 5 of the very same "a decade and a half out of style" minis, now cost 35 euros. FOR 5 F THEM. Or even better, the warp spiders. 5 of those when I first bought them in 2002 cost me something like (I have to guess here, it's been so long) roundabout 15 euros. The very same "pushing 3 decades out of style" minis, now cast in an inferior material I might add, now cost 40 euros. Shill as you may..... those are some egregious prices.

[@NornQueenKya]

The short answer is because they can. Seems like theres been next to no repercussions for jumping up the prices year after year

[@legozackproduct111]

thats why i bought a 3d printer and started buying second hand.

[@clinch4402]

The shorter answer is: monopoly.

[@lewisbenzie845]

They are a business afterall.

[@sagacity1071]

Of course not... not when you have imperial fi$t players defending the price increases on the subreddit and discord.

[@jack-a-lopium]

Do you seriously not understand how inflation works? You could probably get a tax-break on an adult education course if you explain it to the course provider. Good grief...

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I started in around 2005 when the boxes came with more models and cost about £12.50 from Games Workshop, and even then that was seen as quite a hike from their last prices, as I was bitterly disappointed to find out at the time. From then inflation has been 68%, people's pay on average has risen around 38% in that time, warhammer prices have risen 300 percent and you get less models.

[@mapsmaps2215]

Fewer models*

[@Alex-cw3rz]

@@mapsmaps2215 it's a KZbin comment not a thesis

[@mapsmaps2215]

@@Alex-cw3rz 😝

[@clinch4402]

Hear hear. Cadians in 2005 were £15 for 20, now they're £25 for 10. People crying "inflation" bizarrely try to use rogue trader metal prices for comparison when it was an entirely different game and medium.

[@guillercuastico]

@@clinch4402and thats one of the worst infantry/basic units. Space marines and many other units are still 10 each box. Others got even cheaper and much better models (+new premium plastic which is much better than early 2000’s when I started). Sisters of battle for example, my 2nd army, I only bothered with the ladies when they got proper models. Hurts that I play imperial guard as my main though jajaja but I got most of them when they were cheap and 20 each box.

[@lemontangs]

WH is crazy expensive here in OZ. As much as I try to support my local WH shop with paints and exlusive shop only items (I'm looking at you commemorative series Kahl Yoht Grendok). I tend to go to other hobby shops who at least tend to get the models cheaper, buy second hand, or In some cases I just 3D print them.

[@rtl97]

Absolutely no reason to buy direct from GW in Australia unless it’s store exclusive

[@scootergrant8683]

Getting knockoff stuff still comes with its caveats too.

[@colonelturmeric558]

Try wargames atlantic, warlord games and stargrave miniatures, all vastly cheaper and great sculpts. Warlord games have einherjar which are votann proxies and many guard proxies. Also lizardmen who can be used as a tau auxiliary race proxied as kroot

[@luketfer]

@@colonelturmeric558 I don't know how anyone would build an IG army in the modern era without Wargames Atlantic, 25-30 dudes for £25. Sure it's not tournament legal but if you're not playing at tournaments or GW shops then go for it).

[@Mephiston]

@@colonelturmeric558 On top of this, onepagerules and puppetswar are great proxies.

[@nicholasharmer7415]

A reasonable comparison is tabletop board games. These used to sell for £30-50 in the mid-2010s, with £50 needing to be a really good game to justify. But the success of Gloomhaven and Indomitus at a £120-130 price point has moved the big players to realise that people will pay £100 so that is now their target price point. For example, "The Great Wall" from Awakened Realms is £150 rrp - great game with lots of minis but it shows the price point. The Shatterpoint starter set is a particularly egregious example. GW's prices are high but the industry has inflated massively and now they feel more like in line with the "premium" end of the board game market, rather than comparatively eye-wateringly expensive as they seemed 8-10 years ago. I am not justifying these prices at all and entirely agree that it makes 40k (and many other games) inaccessible to those on lower incomes.

[@luketfer]

or god forbid you want to get into Kingdom Death: Monsters where the *base set* costs you £400 and to have all the expansions (which doesn't include the limited pinup models just stuff you'd use in the game) is over £1000...

[@Kallistosprom]

As someone who has a board game collection, board games have got nuts in terms of price increases. At first we were told it was increased costs in cardboard, but it seems that was utter ballocks. I’ve definitely cut down the amount of games I’ve bought.

[@averagedemocrat9546]

only the rich and soyboys will be playing warhammer now.

[@Kobylad]

@@averagedemocrat9546or anyone with some dettol, patience and an ebay account

[@terminaro]

Your analysis is fair but seems to forget one thing Tabletop games are ready-to-play usually for 2 to 4 people! Imagine paying 120 for a game, only to realize the other 3 players need to buy their own game to play ... Ps: also, I saw so many pricy bad games with flashy miniatures that I'm forming a prejudice lol

[@terrormask2475]

When Combat Patrol boxes were first launched I remember arguing with a guy who thought that higher price is okay because at least now every faction will get 500 points in a box. And then IG box came out and it was the same as the old Start Collecting box point wise. Thanks for nothing GW.

[@lewisbenzie845]

Necron box is awful now in 10th :D

[@ReadThisIfYourG3y]

Sobs in thousand sons*

[@terrormask2475]

@@ReadThisIfYourG3y yeah, still angry at myself for not buying the old box when I had the chance.

[@lordcommissarthomas1922]

Yeah that hurt, given the fact my first army is guard

[@giantninja9173]

⁠@@lewisbenzie845the necron combat patrol is so hilariously bad. The only 2 abilities for the whole patrol is the overlord’s -1 damage and the skorpekh plasmacyte for devastating wounds. The warriors are REQUIRED to have a 50/50 split on flayers/reapers. That said, reanimation protocols were very powerful. None of my units suffered battle-shock because they would get back to over half-strength in the command phase. But the entire game rests on the doomstalker damage wise (I know skorpekh’s are supposed to do work but I have only ever slow rolled them)

[@ChuntGruntPunch]

You should do a video about the scalping issue making the hobby harder to get into than the prices. For people who don’t live near a games workshop store online is the only way to get any of the kits, books, etc. especially since a lot of their products just get put on the indefinite “temporarily out of order online”.

[@BIFInvaider]

Think it depends on where you live? My ex could order stuff available in the US to Georgia(the country for you american people) because there is an american address in their capital city.

[@dxpsumma383]

A video about scalping could be fun but you might not like the answer: it's not as big of an issue as many people seem to believe.

[@therealslimshady3662]

@@BIFInvaider that would be an embassy...

[@Shocknfunk]

GW has been rolling out the que system on their site for just about every release now since leviathan. The scalping issue may not be as big of a problem anymore going forward.

[@ChuntGruntPunch]

@@Shocknfunk the new ciaphas books sold out in less than 15 minutes and there was no queue for it as far as I know

[@hanniballecture]

3D printing is the only reason I can enjoy the hobby and play with my friends/lgs events. Im not against GW, just can't afford getting "official" models. So I support my lgs in other ways, magnets paints etc.

[@johnwhite9461]

atm 3d Printing is still not user friendly enough to be a threat to the convienance (or percieved convienance because putting them together has never been more of a pain in the backside) of GW Plastic kits: 3D printing means messing around with resin alchohol UV lights and of course, STL files, and this is whats keeping it relatively niche. When the machines develp to such a point all that is automated and you just have to tell it what to print, then it will explode and GW will be done if they arent moving into digital downloads of their classic scuplts. 3D print industry seems to think 5-10 years and the technology will be developed enough GW's business model could be seriously at threat. Same as you hannibal, I embrace the vast imaginative scope and diversity of 3D printing, there are whole armies out there GW never touched, imagination really is the limit these days! And maybe that should make GW nervous, with 10 versions of the core game and umpteen redundant codex's, do we really need them to keep churning out broken versions of the same game again and again? And if we dont need them for RULES, what are they good for?

[@KaziMazi]

​@@johnwhite9461its pretty easy that even I, a dumbass managed to do it pretty easily. You dont need alcohol just buy waterwashable resin like me. And UV light you also dont need just leave them in the sunlight. Some Stls files are hard to find but its pretty easy overall. Last thing I printed was a exocrine and it looks 10 times better then the gw model. I got the file for 8€ and it costed 3€ worth of resin

[@nick1635]

I don't think 3d printing will ever be a threat, even 5-10 years. GW customer base is primarily kids that get models bought by their parents, and adults with disposable income that will buy off the shelf rather than deal with the hassle of 3d printing. I doubt GW cares much about the pirate niche as there's no money in that customer base anyway.

[@johnwhite9461]

@@nick1635 If Games Workshop had smarts they'd have a mail order troll manning a website banging out 3D prints of out of production sculpts to all and sundry. If we start to see this it will certainly indicate 3D printing is making an ever increasing dent

[@thepinkplushie]

@@nick1635 Exactly, I strongly agree with this. I find people who think 3D printing will be a serious threat to tabletop gaming companies similar to people who thought VR would be a serious threat to conventional games companies in the videogame world. Just like VR will never be more convenient than regular gaming, 3D printing will never be more convenient than a regular sale. At least not in the reasonable-to-predict future. These are enthusiast technologies for enthusiast hobbiests. Both are great, both have a lot more potential for the future. But neither is intended, designed or even conceptually capable of replacing the status quo. Even if 3D printing became trivially easy and very cheap (upfront cost and material cost), it would still take up space in your house/apartment, and still require either filament or resin, both of which have downsides, and the latter of which creates fumes which are incompatible with pets and small children. Think of how many new flashy enthusiast technologies have actually replaced the status quo of a hundred-year industry (which the miniatures industry is nearing, as it's generally considered to have started around the '50s, with non-tabletop miniatures going back to the late 1800s). There's very, very few examples, especially in recent history, and for every example there is, there's a hundred or more examples of a technology that didn't

[@rogerbrownreacts8528]

I used to work at Ral Partha...Citadel was our main competition. Both companies did the same work and its because of mismanagement and price gouging.

[@tmarcb1296]

I just discovered battletech and got their ultimate starter box equivalent for less than a 40k character at my flg. I'm not sure it can be justified, but it's a good time with friends and great models so definitely still worth it to a point. I might regret getting 4 armies since I started at beginning of 9th though

[@telleryoutube4458]

Battletech ftw

[@CustodialNinja]

When I worked in a store in the early 2000s, the POS system included cost values for every model. This supposedly included production, materials, packaging, and transportation. For just about everything sold at GW the cost - after ALL expenses - was 20-33% of the MSRP.

[@lewisbenzie845]

That's remarkably fair.

[@CS-ri1eo]

Something GW at least seems to have not considered is that people will actually spend more money overall if they think they’re getting more for their money. Practical example: whenever I walk into my local game store once every few weeks, I more often than not walk out empty handed (save maybe a bottle of paint or something) because as nice as it would be to have five more scions I’m not sure if it’s worth just under $45 (the store has a discount on GW prices but sales taxes also need to be accounted for). If that box was $30 and other prices decreased to match, however, I’d probably pick up one or two things most times I was there. Since each kit probably costs GW single digit dollar values to produce, they might stand to make more profit overall selling much more stuff at a lower price point.

[@clinch4402]

They have considered it. That's precisely why boxsets like indomitus sell like hot cakes. GW products are a premium luxury good, and with no competitors they have no need to lower their prices in order to win an individual's purchase. Chances are if you're into wargaming, you'll save up that little bit extra to afford the overpriced plastic another day.

[@price2camper]

i came to this realization that GW gets away with making model prices too damn high is when the recruit edition comes with the same amount of necron warriors and scarabs than to buy it separately and comes with a royal warden and 6 space marines for around the same price

[@price2camper]

like youre telling me a box of 10 gretchins and 1 Ork Runtherd is 25$ but a box of dark angels with only 10 minis is a 140$? Fuck off

[@colonelturmeric558]

That was my first kit! Threw me off for gws usual pricing

[@lonecolamarine]

Yea it was nutso how we got 20 models for 40$. That's crazy value considering that those models individually would total up to WELL over 100$

[@price2camper]

@lonecolamarine at the very least, it seems the newer introductory, starter, and ultimate editions seem to be carrying on the previous value boxes, and even the introductory set comes with paint. But it stills a very small improvement, and it doesn't seem GW will improve on that as long as they dominate the minis market lol

[@gibby3658]

This is what I do for a living all be it in a different market. Still it’s injection moulded plastic product and part of my role is costing it. The material on a £35 box is likely around £1. The packaging might cost about the same. The real costs are the tool. Around £50k per frame. Cost will also include the use and maintenance on the moulding machine maybe £1-£2 on the box. There will then be r&d design prototype tools. Likely they drop around £250k in art design things that have to be altered before they start producing which they will spread over the first 10k boxes sold or similar. Then there is all the running costs in general that have to covered. Finally local stores and other sites are buying stuff in at about 45% off and GW will still want to be making money on that. The £35 box will likely be costing them at around £8-£10 once you spread it out. Welcome to my exciting career path😂

[@rogaldorn252]

Good information. Wouldnt this be the same for other companies too btw? What would an iphone cost to produce? Or a pair levis jeans? Heck, a carton of milk? Genuinely curious. People always bash GW for pricing but I think every product is expensive once you know the production cost.

[@lewisbenzie845]

Ill argue the packaging costs. print & packaging costs a fortune. I cant find the details but If I remember correctly Playstation 2 games, of the £40 (back in 2000) price I believe £5-10 of it was package. Thats on a 10p case & 20p disk.

[@gibby3658]

@@lewisbenzie845 can’t say I’ve bought a lot of cardboard with that level of print but something with a few logos that size would be 80p if you bought 1,000. There’s will be more for the colours and quality but they’ll be buying 10,000+ so maybe £2 max. The plastic on games is what drives that

[@GoalOrientedLifting]

how many moulds do you tend to keep in reserve, in case something goes wrong? or are they so durable that its not really needed? would also love to know how long they last for these kinda injections.

[@GoalOrientedLifting]

@@rogaldorn252 apple has almost as high profit margin as GW so the profits is probably decent. btw in general in food production and general production the profit margins are usually around 8-12%. in food production the factories and farmers get a small cut of the pie, cause the stores are basically ran like a mafia, in a lot countries.

[@EuanMilne]

I think that part of the pricing comes perhaps from a sort of insurance policy, as in they up the prices so that their operating cost can be met even during times of low sales, but to be honest I think they would sell more, and make more profit overall if they lowered it

[@lewisbenzie845]

That's a clever observation. GW do seem to weather the storm well. Wonder if they have financial policy where they don't go into the red

[@obsidanix]

Yeah I saw an Interview where Games Workshop were 3 weeks from closing the doors permanently just before contrast paints and discount starter sets really got going. Both these rescued GW massively, they defo plan to avoid this!

[@niccolo6865]

If they sold their miniature at a reasonable price, at this point i would have given them way more money

[@e-volt9285]

​​@@niccolo6865If they sold their miniaturesa at a reasonable price, at this point I would be in the the hobby. And I know at least 2/3 friends in my same position

[@thepinkplushie]

@@niccolo6865 This is the problem with trying to assess the market from the ground level. Because yes, that makes total sense, right. Less cost = more sales. But as was stated in the video, the pricing is where it is for a reason. It's a balancing act of maintaining sales by keeping the price low enough that a large number of people pay, but high enough that you get the most profit you can. While you can find hundreds of people saying the same as you, maybe thousands, there's thousands more saying nothing but who are willing to pay the current price. When models come down (and stay down) in price, it's because that ratio was no longer working and sales dropped. When models are pulled entirely it's likely because discounts wouldn't offset the drop-off, and the model is no longer profitable. Rather than hoping a company will change a formula that has worked for hundreds of years (generally, decades for GW specifically), I feel it is better to hope that we can get to a point where cost of living is manageable so that the average person with the average wage can pay rent, and bills, and buy food and essentials, and still have enough left over to save for their hobbies. That seems achievable, though may be just as unlikely as companies no longer following supply vs. demand and sales vs. unit price.

[@trogaloogie]

I can largely stomach GW prices at the moment (usually after the typical 3rd party discount) but those character model prices are what kills me. I pass over them every time because I’m not paying 75% of an entire infantry box when i can just kitbash most of them for a fraction of that. I think a lot of people are doing the same considering they never seem to move at any of the hobby shops in my area.

[@terminaro]

Also for someone really interested in the hobby (and not just a GW fanboy) making her own character models is a great opportunity. A friend of mine made an Alpharius model. It is beautifull. He usually proxy it as Abbadon. He cannot play it in any ufficial events.

[@kurukblackflame]

Yeah-I tend to pick up GW character models when they are part of a boxed set. I very seldom buy them on their own because they seem like such bad value.

[@niallrichardcurran2466]

My current strategy is always going through Marketplace, splitting boxes with randos online, and just generally being a little savvvy and looking around. The paints are the most expensive element because it adds up so well. That being said, yes, thank the small shops, they are generally all helpful and work hard. I found GW stores, pushy to get a sale..

[@domschra]

God dont even mention the paints I got myself my first - small - paint set and got lucky with a store that values the customer over cash - the clerks recommendations saved me like 40€ going for other brands than citadel, some i didnt even really know were viable for minis

[@iantellam9970]

ControversiaI take maybe - I can only speak for here in the UK, and I know prices are inflated overseas - but there's also the fact that GW prices have always been pretty high - or at least since the 90s, so they're just continuing with the same pricing strategy they always have. I know people seem to think that things have gone up in recent years, but in reality it's more complicated. Accounting for inflation some things have gone up, but other things have gone down in price. For instance, a Space Marine dreadnought in 1997 was £25, which would be over £55 in 2023 money, and a blister pack of just 2 minis was usually about £4 (£9 today). Plastic minis were a thing but usually extremely primitive and still cost £15-20, or around £40 a box adjusted for inflation. Generally it does seem that characters and certain individual models cost more than they used to, but in general terms of getting an army together it seems to have gone down a bit if anything. I suppose some of this might be down to certain things once being made of metal, which are now plastic, but having just returned from a 25 year gap from the hobby the prices remain about what I expect from GW, and if I could afford it as a kid/teen it doesn't seem a huge outlay as an adult. Then again an N64 game was £50 back then too which is £115 in today's money! So maybe it's just expectations that have changed, lol.

[@GoalOrientedLifting]

and thats why the only friend i knew who had warhammer figurines, growing up, had rich parents. Their business model is insane, at best. if you calculated the revenue, and profits and deduct the tax rate for business, in UK,(25% in the UK, theyre definetly not paying a full 25%) theyre still at a 28% profit margin.

[@jackmartin7470]

I live in Nottingham U.K. where the hq of games workshop is… last year I was in a pub and got talking to a few of the guys who work there (I won’t use names as I don’t wanna get friends in trouble at their workplace) but they confirmed to me that the GW execs laugh that people pay these prices

[@gooptroop]

The Outer Circle has a great video on price increases over the years and how GW always stays ahead of inflation

[@toastle8005]

He is quite a brilliant channel, and far more thoughtful and balanced than his Reddit-based detractors would like to acknowledge. A good hobby and GW-discussing channel, and the more hopeful hobby-focused content is really damn good too

[@AAhmou]

Also made an interesting point about the shrinkflation some infantry based kits have been subject to.

[@DaLEGOmaniac]

@@toastle8005his channel is the one that got me very interested in Horus Heresy. He’s honest and not afraid to point out the elephants. His getting started series is fantastic.

[@jack-a-lopium]

@@AAhmou one interesting thing is that GW republished the Rogue Trader core rulebook a few years ago... this book actually still contained the contemporary advertisements. If you look up these adverts and if you do your sums based upon rate of inflation, you may see something surprising. I won't say what that is, but I encourage you to look for yourself... 😉

[@jack-a-lopium]

@@AAhmou unfortunately your post disappeared, so I can't read it, sorry.

[@haseaopk]

Remember kids, in the world of the modern market, price comparison is important. 80$ worth of food, a video game, or a small piece of uncolored, sometimes plastic, sometimes resin mini that most definitely costs about a dollar and a bit to make and "inspect for quality"

[@sintaribat9350]

I remember the days when a marine was a nickel a terminator was a quarter and terrain was old shoe boxes and cans....

[@pbkobold]

GW doesn’t care about affordability. Scott Galloway had a recent KZbin talk where he discussed the rapid growth of the luxury industry (the owner of Louis Vuitton is the current richest person) alongside the rise of wealth inequality. Things like $6k hotel rooms. Disney’s recent earnings were saved by the parks, and the only real revenue growth the parks have experienced is from rich tourists paying $500/hr+ (all day booking required) for a cut-all-the-lines guided tour. The point Galloway makes is that companies are focusing on serving the 0.1% because that’s where revenue growth is, and further that the artificial scarcity dynamics of luxury goods is the best way to get the 0.1% to spend. Hearing all this immediately called to mind GW. They don’t care about affordability. They want warhammer to be a luxury good. Long term it will harm the growth of the hobby, but GW’s big pile of money will make it hard for them to care.

[@lewisbenzie845]

Okay commie settle

[@clique7386]

​@@lewisbenzie845he's right tho, stop licking boots

[@riptors9777]

Whale hunting... they are whale hunting.... the same in the mobile game and "free 2 play" markets.. one or two whales can keep your shitty game afloat for YEARS

[@timunderbakke8756]

@@lewisbenzie845im very much opposed to communism, and I didn’t see any communist content in that message. The wealth redistribution was executed in 2020 when the small business owners were forced to close their doors and big businesses selling the same sort of wares were deemed “essential”. And to a degree, I’ve seen it to. You’ll notice that periodically retailers will place other company’s miniatures on sale, but not GW (unless it’s a “we are desperate to clear stock” sort of issue). GW itself never runs sales, the closest it does is a box set at Christmas that lumps some goodies in with unpopular kits to push the inventory. If GW thinks they can be a luxury brand, they can try to be that. I don’t think it’s going to work for them as well as they think it will, but what do I know, I don’t own a hobby enterprise

[@Gojira1744]

People are overthinking this. It's like video games and battle passes or dlc. They charge what they know people will pay. The IP is what allows them to be expensive. People like myself simply love the universe, and nothing comes close. That's the sad reality. It would only get cheaper if sales decreased and it was attributed to being too expensive for customers.

[@noneofyourbusiness4133]

I wonder if they ever thought that more people will play and buy if they cheapen it.

[@Akimbo411]

People already buy more than they can even paint and more than GW is capable of manufacturing in a timely manner.

[@JasonM69]

I've been thinking that for over 20 years...

[@noneofyourbusiness4133]

@@Akimbo411 increase production 💀

[@voultronix761]

I used to think this too . But what opened my eyes is the numbers for games like destiny 2. Whales make the average spend so high it doesn't matter what those at the bottom are doing. Same with warhammer . Whales will buy entire armies in one shopping cart while someone getting in might take a year to build up to that

[@totallyalpharius507]

Demand is greater than supply, hence the price gouging. Also as Auspex said in the beginning of the video, Warhammer is by far the most popular tabletop wargame after chess.

[@Joubes]

I used to work in plastic molding. I'd be willing to bet the tooling and molding is the largest expense of manufacturing.

[@tomwilliams7287]

Yeah the new knight lancer is $335 Australian, like it’s one single kit, no choice in build due to no other options in weapons and it’s still more expensive than a dominus class and 2 armigers as well

[@Scuzzlebutt142]

$400 in NZ, but with Resin 3D printer only $40 and some effort......

[@lewisbenzie845]

To be fair, the shipping alone costs more than the kits. What you Aussies need is some mad lad to come to UK buy several shipping crates of kits and ship it cheap to Aus.

[@user-BadUsername]

dude i was at a hobby store earlier and a culuxes assassin, a small thing model, was $40. $40 for a tiny thin piece of plastic that worth about 65 points

[@Damnedlegion40k]

New Zealand requires long distance shipping, plus the exchange rate, but most of all, it's a smaller market and a higher cost reaps more rewards for the shareholders 😢

[@Scuzzlebutt142]

Except no, it's not a smaller market, the internet makes the world the market. The only reason we don't but directly from UK GW is they won't allow it, if they didn't put sales restriction for regions in, no one would buy local, and they would have to bring the price down.

[@lewisbenzie845]

Shipping.

[@hyperios117]

Without fail the most obvious reason is never brought up. That is, GW is the only tabletop games company with dedicated brick & mortar storefronts for it IP. That overhead is a massive expense. If they didn't have the store fronts to pay for, and only sold their models at third party retailers like every other miniature company does, and also online, they could potentially lower their prices.

[@lewisbenzie845]

Accurate but why would they lower prices¿

[@brumach527]

nah, we know for a fact they are makign profits hand over fist. and they are gonna keep charging more as long as people keep paying. simple as

[@InterrogatorchaplainAsmodai]

It's getting less expensive by the simple fact that everything else is getting more expensive, in my local Warhammer store sells a box of intercessors for 45 to 50 euros, but a box of lego only slightly bigger costs pretty much the same.

[@ddis29]

lego has gotten real high in the u.s. i think they used to have a factory stateside that closed. also they are leaning real hard into licensed kits, which cost about 25% more than a comparable non-licensed kit.

[@Annoying_Dragons]

Bad example Lego has tons of competitors who sell far superior products for 1/5 the price. A person who buys from Lego these days has only shit in his head.

[@mapsmaps2215]

@@Annoying_Dragons far superior? Like what? 😂 legos quality is still far better than any comparable brand Ive built

[@kurojima]

the answer is simple, they only care about their Share Holders, they dont care about anything else, certainly not their products and even less about their customers

[@BoofsBoofington]

You only have to buy them once ish. New units and all, but that's something fun to look forward to as an army hobby. Try buying magic the gathering decks. Legacy or vintage deck will EASILY be as much as a 40k 2,000 point army And individual pricey power cards will be replaced almost each year. Sure, you can argue your whole army get's powercrept by a rule edition, but then you just have two armies you don't have to buy again, and just have to wait until next edition. Anyway, just try being GW vs the next decade of 3D Printing. They will spend themselves bankrupt paying for new models books and such, then we just copy their productions, share books online, and 40k gets bought out by amazon and dies. Yes, GW is pricey AF. But I wouldn't trust any other company with 40k. Besides. Knowing they are priced how they are, hopefully you treat them better and they last longer. Pretty sure GW knows how easy it could be to put them out of business.

[@lewisbenzie845]

Yup. Other hobbies include watches, cars, motorcycles, boating, Oh wait those all start at a couple of grand :D Max youll pay in 40k is what £500 for an army??

[@WrahNylvid]

finding discount boxes and local game shop sales is a great way of getting your army much much cheaper I have about 3000 euros worth of minis (RP), 5 armies in total (2-3k points each) but i spent about 1.5k just from discount boxes, second hand kits and local sales although retail prices can be a bit large, there's ways to get these kits for much much lower if you just have some patience to wait for your favorite army to get a massive discount box

[@wyatttyson7737]

As someone who regularly makes use of both 3D printing and 3rd Party models, the sheer difference in quality from GW is staggering. Especially the new kits, but even a lot of the older kits really are just so much better than the competition. Warlord Games Bolt Action miniatures I'm sure at some point in time looked okay, but they make 90s GW minis look high detail. Star Wars Legion Minis are closer in quality but are pretty much just monopose. My favorite 3rd party is Wargames Atlantic, and as much as I'll recommend those every day of the week without hesitation their reduced comparative quality matches their reduced comparative price. You only start to get close to GW quality with 3D Printing if you have a very expensive Resin Printer and pay for 40$+ files. GW's models are still often probably overpriced, but compared to the competition it becomes kinda obvious why.

[@toastle8005]

An addendum to that, high-resolution 3D Resin Printers are getting a lot cheaper and more accessible (as you’d expect developing technology to), so it’s really quite achievable nowadays. Your main price would probably end up being the initial cost of a quality designer file, but then, you can now make and field that permanently.

[@MateuszKiwalczyk666]

You are absolutely havin a laugh mate. You can get gw quality with a regular 4k and some cheap-ass patreon models. After 6k maybe 8k the difference in quality between the prints themselves does not exist anymore

[@Scuzzlebutt142]

Can't say about Warlord, but Legion Models are pretty close in quality, at half the price, and a much more expensive IP to pay. If they learned to cut their models in the same location for each model, they wouldn't be monopose, but they are still in many ways a board game company, and think like one. And 3D printing has got to the point it's often indistinguishable from plastic sculpts, and the price of nice Stls is pretty low, maybe $5?

[@johnwhite9461]

"You only start to get close to GW quality with 3D Printing if you have a very expensive Resin Printer and pay for 40$+ files." I suggest look harder, I cant agree with these statements, there are plenty of STL's that exceed GW that are either very cheap or FREE (especially STL's put out by frustrated GW players who cant get the damn models they want becuase GW wont make them or permanently out of stock) and its often not the price of the printer but the finesse of the settings that get the right results, 2K printer or 8K printer there is a point the human eye cant tell the difference when the layer depth is fine enough.

[@elijahherstal776]

They're overpriced because people are willing to pay them. As much whining as so many people do, they still let GW fleece them. Because too many neckbeards have zero impulse control.

[@MarketResearchReading114]

Its my theory that in part characters are just a smaller volume of sale. You have to machine one miniature, its still tooling and shop time, and it probably takes a similar amount of time and investment just to a degree that the run time is shorter. The packaging is still there, you may be able to do several characters at once, but the processes to optimize the flow of plastic for each model are different as always due to the differences in geometry so there is still expensive corrections and losses due to failures. There are unavoidable costs. The sales themselves could be in a volume that necessitates that a quicker return is necessary to justify the lost production on other kits that might sell even more. You typically run many times fewer characters, and sometimes even don't buy from the same company because you want a different pose. So I see it as a valid reason for a potential explanation for why a character "tax" seems to exist. Then there's the intellectual property and book sales, and that means you need to charge a premium because they're part of your flagship of things that get people into the hobby, they represent your brand in a way that meshes across products and is coordinated in a way that they have to be of quality of caliber to appease all the deals you've made with authors and the hard work of the teams that made the investment in these characters so profitable. These people within the company would not be happy to see their work for a miniatures company, to be met with an awful miniature. This affects recruitment and talent retention. If people don't want to see the works about a character because the model sucks, then that means those people lose sales on the things they invested their time into, for a product they likely can't have much input on. For the game, characters are one of the things that change the most in terms of rules, and that might reflect just how much difficulty they have in moving certain characters, and their stock, as well as part of why characters are important for the game, because they're singular models, they have a very easy ability to be adjusted and for normal players at a cost that is generally acceptable, so cycling power of characters can be one of the ways to keep the game fresh, but comes at the cost of alternating what stuff is selling.

[@luketfer]

This was exactly what I was told when I was younger when they bought out the Plastic Dread kit for Space Marines. I was like "it takes the same amount of plastic to make a squad of 10 marines as one of these, why is this more expensive" at which point the very grumpy GW sales person was like "Well you're going to buy maybe 3 of those Dreads and like seven or eight boxes of Marines, that's why, duh!" Keep in mind I was like maybe 11 or 12 at the time and up until that point had understood very clearly that a Metal Dread was significantly more metal investment than a like 2 guys (a properly glued and pinned metal dread was a fucking killing weapon, I've had one knocked off the table and put a dent in the floor) but the plastic Dread felt like a ripoff to me since you're not paying 'by weight' anymore in my young pre-teen brain.

[@000Bounce]

What a lot people overlook or simple turn a blind eye to: The number one focus of a company is to make money! Between the predatory sales tactics GW trains their retail managers to use (according to KZbin videos of former managers) and what happened when Vottan released with crazy OP rules. There’s no doubt that GW manipulates army / model rules for the simple goal of getting people to buy whatever is meta at the time.

[@thenathanimal2909]

As someone who does B2B sales in a big global industry, I assure you there are plenty of companies that forgoe some profit in order to serve their market, because of their passion for what they do. The people in charge of Games Workshop are not interested in making the best game at reasonable prices. They are a purely profit driven company whose only motive is to generate value for shareholders, using a beloved IP. As one of the original designers said who left over a decade ago, "They have no interest in making good games."

[@dogdacious6299]

Surprised you didn’t mention Games Workshops primary demographic and business model for their table top war games Warhammer is a game loved by nerds. Nerds on the average make more money and thus have more disposable income. Warhammer is a leisure luxury product. It exist solely for entertainment. Games workshop also has the business model of appealing to “whales” or fewer big spenders. They cater to a niche group that is willing to spends lots of money. They are prepared to scare away most people who see the sticker price of an army; because, they care more about the ones who are not. I can personally attest to spending thousands of dollars on the hobby. Like all luxury products their prices are determined more so by things such as status and exclusivity more so that of manufacturing/labor.

[@Mr_Waffle.]

Yep, millennial-bait nostalgia hobbies are doing very well nowadays. Lego, hot toys marvel figures etc. The kids from the 80s and 90s who grew up with super heroes and plastic toys are grown up and can afford it

[@averagedemocrat9546]

@@Mr_Waffle. Millennials will never be able to retire if they spend everything on toys.🤣

[@hundun5604]

I wonder what personal 3D printers would do to the game in the near future. If (or should I say, when) they can copy the original units 1 to 1, I think it will increase popularity enormously.

[@Turai12]

I've noticed that any other game I find interesting to get into has close to the same price as gw games. Conquest for an example.

[@timothyharnedy4495]

Because GW are the largest wargames company in the market they set a benchmark against which other companies can price themselves. But there are a lot of options out there that are considerably cheaper. I'm waiting on some Frostgrave miniatures coming back into stock that are priced at about one-third of comparable GW miniatures.

[@averagedemocrat9546]

It's all about demand elasticity, which means how much demand for a product changes depending on the price. Warhammer clearly has an inelastic market (demand doesn't change very much regardless of price), so games workshop can just pump up the price as much as they want.

[@im_flat]

Because we continue to buy them.

[@captaincorundum9788]

The machining for the molds are pricy, but I doubt they're this expensive to manufacture

[@ScreamingTc]

The IP is what sells the minis, and that's where GW's true value lies. It's why we've seen GW branching out with what it allows to be created based on the IP: Everything from pin badges to JoyToy figurines. It knows there's a hunger for 40K outside of the tabletop environment, one that is arguably a bigger money earner than the minis themselves. They're just trying to figure out how to send it mainstream.

[@lewisbenzie845]

Why don't you do it then¿

[@lewisbenzie845]

Yup brick and mortar and legacy = premium

[@piercegalactic]

One word. Shareholders. GW is focused more on returns to shareholders than continuing to provide a fun, affordable hobby for its millions on fans/customers. They are literally selling tens of grams of plastic for tens (sometimes hundreds) of dollars. On top of that you have to replace your armies with updated minis every few years (Remember the End Times). They’ve taken the WOTC/Hasbro/MTG model and adapted it well.

[@arkealunas4043]

Moving to only 3d printed models was the best move I’ve ever made. It takes time to learn, but printing an army for pennies on the dollar is amazing and gave me perspective.

[@lonecolamarine]

60$ bought me 3 bottles of Anycubic resin, a bottle of resin churned out 5 Wraithguard, 3 HQs, 6 Windriders(12 really, the first 6 were too small.), 10 Chaos marines, 1 Loyalist Predator, 1 Dreadnought, 2 "OwO" banshee models(4, bc the first two failed.) and hell, there's still a third of that first bottle. Getting into printing is expensive(ish) but LAWDY, LAWDY, it pays for itself if you do 40k.

[@arkealunas4043]

@@lonecolamarine it’s wild! I got that same resin deal, and I’m printing goblins for $0.05/model, and trolls for $0.10/model. I have about 50 printed, and still have about half a bottle. Lol

[@jamesgaultier2949]

I've loved 40K since I first found it at age 12 back in 96.But in the last 5yrs it's been hard when I can get a Master Grade Bandai kit for less than a box of Assault intercessors and there no mold lines, etc.

[@Gisborne1990]

I saw someone on reddit show off their 3d printed votann and they looked almost like real thing. At this rate no one will be buying models soon when you can print emcoff as same quality for next to nothing.

[@CrimsonKMR]

Really crazy thing that I didn't see mentioned - the side games (at least in the US, I'm not sure how available they are elsewhere) that have offical GW minis in them Space Marine board game - One character mini (Lt. Titus, new scupt) 20 pushfit termagaunts and 2 ripper swamrs. 40 USD Combat Arena: Clash of Champions - 4 character minis (Indomitus Lt (the one with shield and vulkite) an Assault Terminator (from space marine heroes), Royal Warden from Indomitus) and a plague champion (again, from space marine heroes) 35 USD 40k: Fireteam - 5 Assault Intercessors, 10 Warriors, 3 Scarab swarms (all push fit from Indomitus) - 50 USD Clash of champions is 4 (!!) character models which are usually 35-40 USD *each*. Space Marine is a character *and* 20 gaunts for the cost of one character... its so insane that they get us to pay the character tax

[@ClipCraze-i8j]

i remember when 10 dudes were 20 quid

[@beardyjosh4108]

Probably worth pointing out that GW's decision to base their manufacturing in the UK over outsourcing to China factors into the costs in a fairly significant way.

[@astr0cade]

Yep that’s also why they’re always bloody sold out most likely

[@terminatoruk4921]

I think it's always worth remembering your return on investment is massive with warhammer. One kit provides many, many hours of planning, building and painting and they literally can stay relevant in your army for decades in some cases. You compare that with high-end PC gaming where you are litterally dropping thousands every 2-3 years to keep up with the cutting edge releases or be prepared to cull your expectations as your investment is decreasing rapidly over time. With warhammer, it is the opposite - your investment actually grows more valuable over time (if you decide to sell anything) and / or doesn't diminish, break or need replacing (other than GW killing off kits which doesn't happen super frequently). There is definitely a big cost 'hump' entering the hobby but once you are there, the 'maintenance' costs are pretty reasonable to be fair for the amount of return.

[@B1-997]

Even if a kit gets the axe like all those firstborn space marine kits, they can be displayed and played with older rules, so even if GW no longer supports a kit/model its not like its 100% worthless all of a sudden.

[@timunderbakke8756]

That is a true statement, although it doesn’t necessarily give GW a pass. I do enjoy the hobby time I get out of them, and I do get to hold onto them a lot longer (especially if I ignore the space marine army where they’re always selling new stuff so the old stuff gets invalidated on tabletop almost as fast as those PCs). TBH, it’s that sort of analysis that lets me justify where I’m at. On the other hand, looking at GW costs also means I’ll almost certainly not start another army collection because it’s insane to think about plunking down another $600+ just for variety. Which is a shame, as there’s some I’d be really tempted by.

[@markpatterson766]

"Prices aren't really set by raw materials in any way" I used to read the gw annual reports and they made a big deal about raw materials and transport costs which were clearly irrelevant factors. They are quite dishonest on this.

[@GaleRazorwind]

Anycubic Mono 4K is about $170, Wash and Cure 2.0 is about $100, 2kg of resin is about $50, 91% alcohol is about $5-10 a liter at walmart, gloves 5-10, air filter about 50 for 2 filter units and 4 replacements. On average, 100g = 10 minis with bases. 2KG = 200 minis. Even with loss and bigger models, the 450 for getting started printing will still get you 100-200 minis easily. That is a whole army for less than the price of a GW army, so you even 1 to 1, you can buy STLs or sign up for a patreon. But once you get past the starting point, every 25 bucks gets you another 50-100 minis.

[@Direwoof]

I find them expensive because of how MANY models you need. Model for model it's about teh same as infinity but that game you only need 10 guys.

[@laurentderrien]

Leviathan + Imperium = I'm set for 2 years

[@lewisbenzie845]

Samesies, high five brother. Although I'm a little sad the Age of sigmar thing started WHILE Imperium was still going :

[@Shokatshin]

Fact of the matter is, the game is brutally expensive if you go for retail. To that end, I really don’t blame people who do stuff like make 15 bases worth of units out of a single box of Nurglings, or stuff like that.

[@jessezeck9818]

They have priced me out, stop buying models a few years ago and just tried to keep up on books. Stopped with that even now and have to really pick and choose what i can even think about buying. Eventually i think I'll have to give up the hobby of they keep going the way they're going. Makes me sad, And i know they don't care, which makes it even worse

[@Mark.Matthews]

The fact that BL digital books have jumped to £10.99 is just crazy.

[@jessezeck9818]

@@Mark.Matthews oh yeah!! How about Bloodthirsters were 85$ like 6 years ago.

[@Mephiston]

Look, when GW are charging 40-50% more in one region than others, just because they can, they can fuck right off with their "reasoning". I can buy shit from the UK through a friend, and get it shipped here to Australia, and STILL save money. Theres no excuse for that.

[@Logan-m6k]

"You pay $100 dollars on 3 plastic models?" aked my dad. Yup im not kidding

[@reddragon4482]

Madness.

[@solid-snake7336]

I may or may not have modeled gw space marines to a 1:1 on detail, look, pose and heights of both firstborn and primaris. And i may or may not have been using them in tournaments and giving them to my friends to use as well

[@borkthebasher]

They've discovered that they can charge whatever they want and people will still pay it. They'll lose a few players who they eventually price out of the hobby along the way but not as many as will join by a long shot. I think they're just pushing it as far as possible while laughing all the way to the bank.

[@thepinkplushie]

There's no emotion behind this. Anthropomorphizing GW as greedy or actively trying to rip people off is easy and comprehensible but is if anything less depressing than the truth. Evil can be defeated. GW is just a company. Decisions are made in boardrooms, by looking at charts, and numbers. No thought is given to you at all. Monetarily speaking, GW doesn't care about you. No company cares about you. They aren't evil, they just are. They look at what ratio of price to sales figures works and go with it. No one in the decision making room has to balance rent, food, essentials and still make room for hobbies to make their life less empty. It's not that they think of the humble potential customer who can't afford to get into the hobby and laugh at them while diving into a pool full of money. They just don't think of people. They think of numbers. It's their job to think of numbers. Thinking of numbers makes them rich. Companies start as reflections of the humans who create them, but after a certain point there's no humanity in the system. It's a game of numbers, and removing humans from the equation as much as possible generally gives the best results. Leave that to the PR department, or customer service, or a feedback team. Those who handle pricing may consult with these other departments, but in the room when the decision is made, there's only numbers. To be mad at GW specifically is just being mad at the symptom rather than the problem. Not to imply GW is clean of any wrongdoing, but ultimately they actually have if anything a rather clean track record compared to most companies their size.

[@DatcleanMochaJo]

I am not sure how you wrote that and came to that conclusion. No doubt GW is greedy. But if people are paying those prices then surely the issue is our peers paying those prices, encouraging GW to keep them high. Some customers are paypigs. Call them out for being consumers.

[@averagedemocrat9546]

@@DatcleanMochaJo Oh my emperor, i i is that the new Leviathan box for tenth edition? Im gonna, im gonna... CONSOOOOOOOOM!!!! Ahhhh!

[@F.S.P.73]

GW has 40% profit margin for their overall business, which is HUGE! Not many companies do it because it has its risk... and if you priced out everyone you sell zero and close business. I'd say GW is on the limit and an uncontrolled inflation or big economic crisis can hurt them severely.

[@ac833]

Why? Because people will pay. Leave their shelves full and production lines backed up and you'd see a change

[@dmeep]

Luxury goods are priced at what the market will bear. We dont need new 40k or AoS quite as much as we need food rent gas etc As a niche hobby lowering prices isnt sure to bring in more customers to ofset the loss of profits from the junkies that buy everything, "whales" if you will.

[@jack-a-lopium]

Dude, you need to consider 'theming' your posts, you said 4 different things which all contradicted each other.

[@ohwnosrepeht]

​@@jack-a-lopium nothing in dmeeps' post contradicts each other, what are you on about?

[@jack-a-lopium]

@@ohwnosrepeht are you the same user on a different account?

[@ohwnosrepeht]

@@jack-a-lopium LOL yeah totally buddy, if that helps you feel better about being stupid

[@jack-a-lopium]

@@ohwnosrepeht don't provide any examples or anything, it's fine. You totally got me. You so smart. You so popular with women.

[@Cliffjumper24]

Something I think you missed here, is the 'publicity' element of GW products. Paying wages for the Eavy Metal team to paint them, the photographers, the staff to run the website, do livestreams, the White Dwarf team, etc. Also, when it comes to characters, the price is based on a return of the tooling costs, and how many of them they can sell. You'll only need one character model, but will need several squads... to to recoup the tooling cost, a higher price is required to break even for the design/tooling/production costs. When you look at the prices of GW kits compared to 1/48th or 1/32nd scale model aircraft kits, they are roughly on a par. However, with model aircraft, the tooling is far superior with 0.2mm panel lines, compared to GW's 1mm chasm! The other problem is that unlike other hobbies, such as armour, aircraft and model railways, where ther are multiple companies pushing higher standards... there are no competitors for 40k maniatures.

[@shinankoku2]

Great. Now please do a video about GW unethical business practices as a companion piece to this one. I can think of at least six things they do off the top of my head that would’ve gotten any other company in trouble with their consumer base.

[@mycatistypingthis5450]

The molds can't be all that significant, because companies like victrix, wargames atlantic and northstar make much cheaper kits in lower numbers.

[@paulhille7006]

I’m just hoping that they at least are paying their workers well

[@johnwhite9461]

Oh. Thats a hope headed for unfortunate disapointment when contacting reality...

[@lewisbenzie845]

Yeah pretty good. £11 an hour to work a very light retail. Heaviest thing they have to lift was the Leviathan box :D

[@johnwhite9461]

@@lewisbenzie845 The retail grunts get retail grunt pay, agreed its better than running round tesco's or a warehouse all day. But the real income disparity is higher up, at head office, the top bods really do live like Kings, not so much the creatives who generate the product

[@brotherhao4225]

Honestly, GW retail seems like one of the easiest jobs ever. It's just show up and wait for someone to come in. At my local GW they sit around painting their own models for their armies just waiting for customers to come inside or they're always out "to get coffee"@@lewisbenzie845

[@chrisgoodier6825]

You should do a vid comparing getting into 40k vs other games eg bolt action, battle tech, OPR, SW legion, etc. that would be eye opening.

[@timunderbakke8756]

I can weigh in on the games I’ve played. Legion - about $160-200 buy in. If you’re playing a more elite army like republic or empire you can buy two core sets and be done. Downside or upside is you’ll have most of a 2nd army on hand at that point. Legion models are not as high quality though. Additionally, that starter army is not going to be very competitive at all. Also factor in the potential trap of buying a box “for the upgrade cards” because not all wargear is distributed equally. Battletech - way cheaper buy in. Depending on classic or alpha strike (let’s pick AS because it’s closer in format to 40k with your tape measure and 3d terrain etc) you’re ready to play with just the AS starter box set for $80 msrp and really more like $60-65 online. Yes, that’s only 13 miniatures but you can play standard point size engagements with it (and have options - it’s not hard to make the 13 mechs divided up among two players to teach a friend). Mechs are generally sold in box sets though, so if you love one mech you’re stuck buying his pack-mates too. To be fair - a battletech mech costs about the same as a a primaris intercessor model ($5-6). It is just that your model count is much lower as each mech is a unit unto itself. So price per plastic is very similar between BT and 40k, you just don’t need as much plastic.

[@davydatwood3158]

On the question of "why are they so expensive in the first place," it's important to remember that GW is a publicly traded company. Which means it has investors. From the investor's perspective, that person has given GW some money in the expectation that they will get *more* money in the future. This heavily impacts the need for GW to make profit margins. Imagine I've invested 1,000,000 dollars into Games Workshop, with the expectation that I'll earn 10% back - so that eventually, GW will pay me 1,100,000 dollars. That's my initial investment plus my return. If the deal was the GW would pay me back 10% return over 10 years, they have to pay me 110, 000 dollars *per year* for the next decade. That's the raw income - not the net, the gross - for over 1,800 Space Marine squad boxes. That's 110K that's not being used to support the company - it's not being spent to make molds or buy plastic or print boxes or research new rules or pay the rent on a brick-and-mortar store or run a tournement or pay staff. So all those costs still need to be added onto the price of the models, too. And then we have the question: how long is it reasonable for me, the investor, to wait for that return? Let's ignore the effects of inflation and interest and so on for the moment - even so, is 10 years a reasonable time to wait? If I'm only getting 110,000 dollars per year it will take about 9 years and one month to get my initial investment *back,* so it will be almost a decade before there's any benefit to me. It's probably understandable that I won't want to wait that long. Maybe I insist that they pay back my investment in only 5 years. It'll still take 4 and a half years for me to recoup my investment and start making money, but I can wait that long. Still, that means that now GW isn't paying me 110,000 dollars per year - they're paying me *220,000* per year. Obviously these are all very hypothetical numbers, and of course the impact of inflation matters too. But the point is: an investor gave GW money because they figured they could make more money by investing in GW than by doing anything else with their cash. And so they want to get paid, and that means GW has to take money from their sales and give it back to their investors. And all of that is going to contribute to keeping prices high, even as the costs of shipping, labour, and manufacturing plummet. GW's near monoploy is probably the main reason for *how* they keep prices so high, but the answer to *why* is much more complicated, and makes the entire GW saga a good example of how capitalism is broken.

[@BrewAndBiscuits]

FYI: My LGS were buying the leviathan box from GW for £80 a box, and selling them for £135. GW is easily making huge profits on all their kits especially if sold via their stores/website

[@lewisbenzie845]

FYI my local supermarket is buying loaves of bread for 50p and selling them for a £1. It's almost as if shipping, storage and logistics is factored in somehow.

[@BrewAndBiscuits]

@@lewisbenzie845 this doesnt change anything i said??????

[@lewisbenzie845]

@@BrewAndBiscuits Tell me youve never ran a business without telling me.

[@guardsmen2945]

@@lewisbenzie845 wow, a whole 50p extra, How will I survive. I guess Ill just go across the road and get it from the Dutch supermarket for 75p instead and get the exact same product.

[@BrewAndBiscuits]

@@lewisbenzie845 ???.. did you actually read what I said the first time? GW were selling their £150 Leviathan box to retailers for £80. GW will already be making profit(although smaller) on that £80 from local retailers.. so the plastic kits must cost fuck all to make. But GW sells those boxes themselves for £150, thats at least £70 minimum mark up. They could very very easily make their products cheaper

[@Shocknfunk]

Couldn’t tell ya for sure if this is good or bad as I’ve been use to making pretty big investments in other hobbies(around $800+ worth of MG Gunplas). I think the prices that fluctuate is mostly due to the fact that it’s part of an actual game that constantly updates on balance that herds people to grab the best stuff all the time.

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

I hear you. ALL hobbies are expensive. I run marathons. Good training shoes will cost you $100 to $200 a pair, which last a season. Fancier shoes are $300. Then there is the race entry fees. At the end of the year, your worn out shoes aren't worth anything, and all you have is the experience and a t-shirt from race day. It's easy to spend $500 a year on this, but have no "toy soldiers" to keep around/pass on/resell when it's done.

[@KillTeamHungary]

The NorthernExile YT channel worked for GW and he told us that a 35 USD Intercessor box has about 6 UDS worth of plastic in the box, the rest is the paper in which its packed and GW's profit margin. On a workshop, the lead trainer told the GW staff that if someone comes into the shop and basically steals a Indomitus starter off the shelf, let him go. As per real life worth, the box is technically worthless, not worth even breaking the sweat stopping the shoplifter. Its disgusting actually and the whales are to blame who throw money at GW like no tomorrow for every sh*t they release...

[@CAMSLAYER13]

Not saying it isn't overpriced but there is more to pay for than pure materials. Injection molds are quite expensive for example

[@Fakheet]

​@@CAMSLAYER13I would assume the moulds and other production costs are included in those "6 USD worth of plastic"

[@reddragon4482]

@@CAMSLAYER13 That's not the customers problem or fault, that's cost of doing business. You can't make the customer fucking pay for stuff like that. Makes me sick to my stomach this shit being normalized. They create problems and make the customer pay for them.

[@CAMSLAYER13]

@@reddragon4482 what? Thats the point. To make a profit you need to cover the costs. Again not saying they aren't over priced.

[@CAMSLAYER13]

@@Fakheet probably not? They will spend 100s of thousands getting a model set to market, a complex multi cavity steel mold can be over 100k just to have one made.

[@impguardwarhamer]

One thing that I think is often overlooked is that all warhammer mini's are still made in the UK. Certainly a contributor to cost, and not something that all other miniature companies do when it comes to comparisons

[@falsehero2001]

I think the international prices also take into account shipping and having to set up and maintain international branches.

[@silentdespair]

As a new player that got in with 10th I'm annoyed when I would looks at a unit and find out they just stopped making it, namely the master of possession.

[@altulbluo404]

i miss csm start colekting such a amazing boks

[@wcaypahwat]

He's getting a release this weekend

[@ADxG1369]

The most expensive part of hobby is the capital needed for the molds, tools and dies etc. (Worked in Hobby Industry for a while handling Global Logistics) I suspect the molds are created in Guangdong and sent to the UK manufacturing plants to create the plastic kits. The packaging and printing is most certainly printed and shipped from overseas. (Just way to cost effective for that type of work.) Great video as usual Auspex!!! Your deep dive into all things on WH40 is the standard!!!

[@Brickfrog427]

There is no chance that the molds are created in China. It's too much of a trade secret to give away, the perfect guarantee of quality control is not present, and there is the near definite personality of duplicate molds being created and used to create duplicates that are sold across the street. A lot of packaging and printing is done in China, but a huge chunk of it is done in Britain. You can check printed rulebooks and boxsets for either "Made in Britain" or "Assembled in Britain". Certain plastic models like a lot of the old terrain was printed in China though.

[@am17frans]

Also supect that the art and design of models is quite a big item as well, especilly as that is what one is paying for. In a sense GW is a fashion company, models are sold on their design and the story they are a part of, rather the quality of the plastic itself.

[@vast9467]

The prices for lager units makes some sense, like how around basic infantry costs 50-60 dollars. Where it gets goofy is when you pay 35 dollars for a single model slightly larger than the basic infantry

[@pacificgrim4661]

I go to a comic store that sells used 40k models, I picked up a Winged Daemon Prince for my Black Legion for 10 dollars. Right now they have Space Marines, Necrons, and Nids from the new box

[@earnestwanderer2471]

It’s an absolute luxury. The price reflects this. Check the price of a new Aston Martin.

[@thenathanimal2909]

Prefer Rolls-Royce myself😁

[@lewisbenzie845]

Or a watch or golf clubs :>

[@reddragon4482]

A luxury for peices of plastic yeah..... What an apologist.

[@kram9850]

its a shame because it didnt used to be like this, when did this happen, ive been out the hobby for years but as a teenager i was huge into this and my first kit was the choas biker set, which im not joking cost £5 in 2008, looking at it now a choas set is £22, my god, the same product, i could easily rack up many sets back when i was playing i dont think i ever went past £200 and my room was filled to the brim with warhamer, but now doesnt look like it

[@grahamroden8897]

It’s unaffordable for new gamers, not only that but the miniatures are incredibly difficult to assemble, paint and transport. I’d dearly love the core units that return to the 00’s push fit style and quality, it’s not like we have fully customisable miniatures these days, they are just all monopose with a couple of options. If someone wants to play a cheap GW game I’ll nudge them to 30k. You get a full and competitive army in the box and don’t need to spend much more to get a truly fantastic army.

[@jakubmikoajczyk3699]

Nah thats not True HH is much more expensive than 40k e.g. I bought normal infantry mkVI bois and then needed to buy upgrade pack (weapons) plus 2 pack's of heads from forge world and then you need to buy transfer sweet so summary goes from 250 PLN to 600 PLN for 20 MK VI and this is without painting (add 1 spray and at least 5 paints (8 is enough) so it leave you with 760 PLN for tabletop 20 marines

[@joshsmith1179]

Fascinating video. That mashes a lot is sense. I thought some of it might be "what can we get for this?" Thoughts, but it is not as cut and dry as that. Thanks for the insight!

[@rudolfnv6666]

1:05 why people cannot understand this. I will never know. They are a business. A publicly traded company. Ofcourse they will maximise profits, they have shareholders. Why do people think they are entitled for a company who works purely for profit to “be nice and lower prices”. Think every time you see a price increase in any sector in life, they are balancing maximising profits versus when they will loose customers

[@lewisbenzie845]

It helps to filter out the unemployed, commies and economic illiterates though. Companies exist to make money. Charities exist to give money away. GW is not a charity.

[@scepteredisle]

You forgot to point out at third party stores they usually offer you a 20% discount so GW increase all their products by about 20-30% from their idealised RRP so no one actually gets a discount when they buy from a third party and GW don't lose money from people getting their stuff cheaper i.e. when you buy directly from GW Online you're paying an extra 20-30% above retail, ironically. GW make sure you pay the FULL idealised retail price no matter where you buy from.

[@MKPoosh]

Truth

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Even as someone on the inside the models are ridiculously expensive especially as they are created using moulds as soon as the price to make the mould is payed off, the piece should cost as much as a bit of cardboard, haulage and a few pennies if that for the models. I remember only in the early 2000s where the boxes came with more models and cost £12.50 from Games Workshop, and even then that was seen as quite a hike from their last prices. In that time inflation has been 68%, people's pay on average has risen around 38% in that time, yet prices have risen 300 percent and you get less models.

[@tombacon3482]

The price of GW models is not much different from other companies. MCP and Star Wars Shatterpoint are around £40-£50 for just a few models. Infinity and ASOIAF are much cheaper. Most hobbies are expensive if you get into them. Sports, crafts, music

[@gaberobison680]

But that’s because GW gives them cover for it. Companies collaborate to fix prices, normalize people only having one hobby too to further justify

[@Bigelnobod]

Was gonna say. Yes, Games Workshop is expensive, its expensive by itself and on its own. BUT, when I look at local tabletop retailers, stuff from other games like Star Wars Legion and Shatterpoint or Conquest are at least as expensive as GW. And if you then compare the quality of the miniatures, I see the favor in GW.

[@lewisbenzie845]

You know brick and mortar and a massive range require upkeep¿. This costs more.

[@peterbarreira4729]

Not much more than other companies? Star Wars Legion starter sets are at least half of GW's starter sets. 1 character is 20 bucks compared to 30/45 for one in 40k. 38 bucks for a 6 man squad of Phase 2 Clones as opposed to 60 bucks for 5 man squad. Even an ATST or TX-130 Saber Tank is 50/60 bucks compared to an Impulser Lancer which is around 90 bucks. Yeah, GW's over charges for their products and it shows that they like to. My LGS around me in the city are more abundantly selling Star Wars Legion than they sell 40k. I know this, because they actually struggle to keep up with demands sometimes (especially with new releases), but I've seen the boxes and same products in the same spot whenever it comes to 40k. I even chat with the owners sometimes to see how much they've sold on 40k. 40k definitely has deeper roots in the TT Hobby...but they're stuck in there greedy ways, that I've seen more interest in "cheaper" hobbies like Legion/Shatterpoint/MCP increase over the past year or so. At some point, the dam will burst for GW. Here's hoping the can do something to the hobby community as a whole to actually invite more players who are interested in the game, but aren't absolute whales that support their price inflates.

[@jack-a-lopium]

For Star Wars, it's the licensing fee, it literally bumps EVERY PRICE on EVERY Star Wars branded product by 33%. You're paying for the Intellectual Property. It's EVEN HIGHER on the DC miniatures game.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I think what is just as ridiculous is the fact Ebay isn't even cheap, you'd think it's a second hand model it should be something someone wants to get rid of, but no it's often the same prices as you could get a new one in the store.

[@timunderbakke8756]

You have no one but the other consumers to blame for that. If the models didn’t sell at that price, they’d lower their prices. We the community are the ones going “oh it’s a few bucks saved let’s do it” and shooting ourselves in the foot

[@erupendragon7376]

The business model is micro transactions. Find people with addiction problems and squeeze. Keep things pay to win.

[@robinfox4440]

What gets me is the Antipodean Difference. Even accounting for shipping, GW products are sold at nearly 150-200% markup in Australia or New Zealand.

[@WarhoundHobbies]

This is exactly why after playing 40k for like five minutes and just now getting my 2,000 points of Guard fully painted, I'm already kind of done with buying more Warhammer and going to end up much more loyal to game systems like Bolt action and Battletech.

[@robcolucci8960]

I know for a fact that if they priced things lower I would buy many more models and they would get more money from me in the long run

[@Alex-cw3rz]

I think one of the cheekest things they do is have 8 models or 13 models in a pack and then say you need 5 - 10 model units, meaning you either need to buy another pack that half the models are useless in or have a smaller unit with unless models in.

[@jessevanhorn3726]

As an alternative, boxes like Intercessors have 11 unique arm sets for only 5 bodies, so if you print or buy alternative parts, you can make up the difference

[@Verity98765]

This was resolved into a non-issue in the most recent update when they added points for all combinations of the boxes they sell (at least for 40k).

[@Karnatil]

@@Verity98765 It's not a non-issue. Custodian Wardens (for the Adeptus Custodes) can be built as a 5-man squad, or a 4-man squad with a shield-captain. Custodian Wardens can be fielded in units of 3 or 6.

[@Verity98765]

​@@Karnatil They fixed almost all of these issues including multiple Custodes variations (Prosecutors, Guard, Allarus etc). For the Wardens they clearly intend you to buy two boxes giving you a Shield-Captain + 9 Wardens which gives you 2-3 units. I stand by the idea that overall it's a non-issue.

[@slobiden.2593]

I don’t mind the kits, or the paints. Or the brushes. It’s the constant codex changes.

[@lewisbenzie845]

Now thats a legitimate gripe, however. 10th seems to be addressing that. Apps much better than youd suspect (nopt great mind you but decent) .

[@alfred8936]

It's absolutely wild that they have brick and mortar stores all over North America, but no models are produced over here

[@Michael-wn3rh]

You could say the same about so many B&M locations for a myriad of products. Pretty much every clothing brand.

[@alfred8936]

@@Michael-wn3rh It's also a massive overhead cost that gets passed down to the consumer, which seems kind of unnecessary when almost every independent game store is selling your product already anyway in-store AND online (which in itself eats into the earnings of said dedicated GW store locations, unless they're the sole provider in an area). Overall it just seems kind of dumb and outdated as a business model, but I'm no expert.