Why Isn't Starting Strength Widely Accepted By "Professionals" | Starting Strength Network Previews

[@DonedHiga]

I have been going to gyms for 30 years. Everything I did before starting strength was a waste of time. bless you Mark

[@alcopersino7855]

Every day I wish I'd discovered starting strength when I was young.

[@wbadad]

Fundamental anything gets boring fast and everyone wants the cheat codes. But since the fundamentals never change the SS method will always work.

[@matthewstrauts5427]

Not only is Rip not stupid .... he's one of the most intelligent men I've ever seen and he does it his way!!

[@bryandyke2037]

He's not stupid at all, but he can be irrational. A few of his peripheral concepts and notions, like being against the trap bar, sumos, or down sets are kinda the opinions that detract from his plan and concepts.

[@ryanempo]

And he’s funny as fuck

[@johnsnow7873]

There is an old saying 'True brilliance is expressed in simplicity'. Making training programs unneccarily complex and naming them 'CRX1000' and advertising them as the new hot product will always garner attention.

[@alz.7716]

The great strength coach Charles Poliquin absolutely did send shout outs to Mark and Starting Strength. Also to CrossFit when Mark ran their training.

[@Ronnock]

And now Ben Patrick (Knees Over Toes) has taken over for CP with his methodology. While it seems drastically different than SS, I think its emphasis on training the motion at its weakest points is not unlike the SS model, especially the NLP.

[@donaldstewart8494]

its a limited market ( older folks and non athletic folks) because the SS program is extremely limited.

[@pz1430]

Good stuff guys. Always looking fwd to tuning in for your wisdom and banter. Time to bring in Phil Megger as a guest.

[@AmericanBulldogFit]

The ignorant masses today can't choose the right bathroom, let alone stick with an effective training program.

[@NoahBClark]

I can’t wait until y’all set up shop here in Charlotte.

[@bryandyke2037]

I want to add that " professionals" may mean crossfitters, Bodybuilders, and competitive powerlifters. RIP even says this plan is not for them. If he's been around weightlifting for 50 years, RIP should not be so damn insecure and know somebody always thinks they know it all.

[@DEBTFREEMIKE769]

I would love for Dave Ramsey to answer a question and say “I’ve been doing this sh’t for over 30 f’n years”. I would be rolling.

[@jackolini]

S.S. is simple to follow. Why would you pay money to trainer if all you had to do was following S.S.? That is probably where the hate comes from, you don't need to pay a trainer for a program. However, I would argue that a trainer is more about motivating the trainee than any advice they are going to give. Honestly, doing S.S. you should understand after a few sessions and reading the book. The hard part is staying consistent, maybe some people see the value in using a trainer because if they are punting money to a trainer maybe they'll do the program three days a week.

[@bryandyke2037]

True, but Rip wants you to give money to SS just like a trainer. He sells the books. Franchise gyms. Seminars. Folks even sell gear and weights. SS is a solid plan but let's be real....RIP even openly talks about his commercial intent.

[@jackolini]

@@bryandyke2037 That's true and nothing wrong with it. My point is S.S. gets hate because it's a simple program of compound exercises. The haters want to make strength training complicated. My point though is anyone who gets a trainer has a problem with motivation. You honestly don't need one for advice, at least if you've been training for any longer than a couple of months.

[@michanota4230]

it’s called”STARTING STRENGTH”! The next step is buy his 2nd book’practical programming for strength training’. It’s about as advanced , complicated and SIMPLE as it gets. “SS” is a gateway program,a person that “NEVER”lifted doesn’t need 12 exercises at 8-12 reps. That’s some BS ‘Men’s Health/Prevention Magazine’routine for fitness. When guys like Dave Tate and Jim Wendler give a shout out to Mark,that says something!

[@eduardosuarez2414]

I dont know what my iq is, but i dont think my press has caught up with it yet

[@bucktowtruck4993]

they don't accept his conclusions because he doesn't have a six pack.

[@matthewstrauts5427]

Six pack is on people who can't even bench 225#

[@bucktowtruck4993]

@@matthewstrauts5427 pretty much.

[@coachmyelinfit]

"You know that as well as I do because you read the same BS papers!" EXACTLY!

[@paulvalentine4157]

I think it is widely accepted by professionals, but they tend to argue about once the NLP runs its course.

[@ChicagoPaul2020]

I’m fat fuckin nerd, always have been and probably always will be, but back in 09 I lost a bunch of weight and got obsessed with going to the gym. I ended up doing a starting strength routine I found (workout A: squats, bench, pull-ups/chinups, workout b: squats, overhead press, dead lifts) and I loved it. Did it religiously for like 4 months, made a bunch of gains and felt great. Then life and all of that shit happened, you know all of the horseshit excuses… but I will say, those 4 months of dedication to that routine stayed with me all of this time: when I stopped working out, when I gained the weight back, when I went from blue collar to corporate, when I went from single to a husband and father… yeah, I’m a fat 40 year old nerd now, but out of everything I’ve ever been called the past 14 years, you one thing no one has ever called me? Weak. Imagine if I had stuck with it.

[@robertlehnert4148]

"Peer Review" is essentially meaningless, or worse than meaningless, unless it's accompanied by replication. Otherwise peer review quickly becomes a circle jerk of affirmation of those in the club, or as CS Lewis put it, *The Inner Circle "

[@strategicsage7694]

A lot of the studies he's talking about *have* been replicated. This is where I get off the fan train. I think he's right about how to build strength for the novice lifter (the Starting Strength basics). A lot of exercise science studies are about how to maximize muscle growth for intermediate and advanced lifters, which is a different thing. I think Rip is fabulous in his lane. The evidence also indicates that he's not right about the value of high cardio fitness (slightly more important for health even than strength/muscle mass), and the promotion of people gaining weight often is taken too far. He's correct about a lot of things, but there's just no justification for the common statements that 'I know they're wrong and I'm not going to discuss why'. That, by definition, is an anti-scientific attitude.

[@chrisseponski41]

I’m the one that made the call and the question and it got cut off but I told him that I’ve always loved his ““peer review doesn’t mean anything when your peers are as dumb as you are”

[@bryandyke2037]

It's worked ok for science. Your talking about a peer reviewed study after all.

[@yew2oob954]

Yeah...there is non of that circle jerk mentality amongst rippetoe and his fanboys. 🙄

[@bryandyke2037]

I'd argue it is accepted. It's a good plan and many folks recommend it. It's RIp who mostly shits on everyone else. Most folks who don't like SS either just prefer something else or are just those workout assholes who ( much like rip) have some profound opinion. I think rip has a solid plan I agree works.

[@Ronnock]

Or they just don't like him as a person.

[@BG-pd6os]

Starting strength is exercise for life! Big deal if you have a vein on your bicep if your legs are 2 weak to get you around!

[@oswelds]

Cuz it works for 3 months for a novice just like any excercise. Nothing special about it.

[@richards6431]

Please cite one case of a professional trainer discounting using basic barbell exercises? Another straw man argument. rippedtoe is the one discounting every other training method. The irony is too much.

[@dritanvarfi5274]

It is beginner-friendly. Many pros use 3×5 or 5x5 in their wave of 8 or 12 week programming, but following the basic 3x5 for too long, is subject to diminishing returns beyond beginner or when the trainee enters intermediate waters. However, surely coach Rip has answers to that having been so long in the business.

[@sunbeamcostrength]

Every "professional" has their own brand to sell.

[@richards6431]

especially the folks at ss

[@Dan-x4o3m]

Because what kind of person is attracted to an exercise science degree? The kind of person that is stupid and lazy, who also happens to want to make money. This goes doubly so for influencers, because if you have a good physique, whether through sheer genetic endowment or through drug use, you can make money selling your bullshit, and people with a low degree of discernment will buy it. That’s why starting strength is reviled; because it works, and it threatens their income stream.

[@matthewstrauts5427]

Exactly

[@strategicsage7694]

A truly moronic generalization. Are there people like that? Sure. Are there a number of well-known (and not so well known) exercise scientists who are very serious about getting the best information out to people? Also yes.

[@tyler7992]

How in the world does being interested in exercise science make someone lazy and stupid? God forbid people have interests and want to learn lol

[@Dan-x4o3m]

@@tyler7992 I’m not talking about someone being interested in exercise science, as I am sure most people here fall into that category. I’m talking about someone who is willing to dedicate a significant amount of time, and especially money, in order to get a degree in the field. They are lazy, because it’s really not a hard degree to get, and they are completely self aware enough to know this, and stupid, because they assume that the degree itself has value, among other things. Furthermore, there is an assumption by the student that what is being taught is true; I am not so sure that this is a true statement. I have hung around a lot of people with different forms of exercise science degrees, and none of them are particularly intelligent. They seem very, very content with prescribing their clients a bunch of crap. This wouldn’t actually be much of a problem to me if they were actually aware that it was crap, yet they prescribed it anyway. This would be immoral, but wouldn’t speak to intelligence or work ethic. No, they quite literally think that what they are prescribing is the best possible program for their clients. This speaks to their intelligence, as well as intellectual laziness. Hence, people who get exercise science degrees are stupid and lazy. Very few people who get these degrees are valued by anyone, and for good reason.

[@erikmielke9008]

Who finds it difficult to accept Hans Selye's theory of General Adaptation Syndrome? Progressive overload and sports periodization are so old that the ancient Greeks knew about them. I get the impression that among the "sports scientists" who don't understand that, and Mark Rippetoe, the only one who is a true scientist is Mark.

[@yew2oob954]

Yeah...or Mark is making up this "conflict" to appeal to his followers who like the idea of "doing their own research."

[@erikmielke9008]

@ With so many people in this world it is more than evident that there are both terrible and excellent sports scientists, but I do not deny that Mark exaggerates a bit as a marketing strategy, even I exaggerated in my previous point, although there are a lot of articles and studies that do not contribute anything, there are also very good meta-analyses and books, I must even admit that although I have read Starting Strength and Practical Periodization for Strength Training and learned some things from both books, I have never followed nor will I follow their programs because I do not consider them adequate for my personal objectives.

[@astang1072]

Rip is an unsung genius when it comes to strength development and the corresponding health benefits. But it requires sticking with the program until you understand how the program interacts with your physiology before you branch off and try and specialize. In this word of “accept everyone’s opinions” SS isn't hip

[@OrangeBlossom4x4]

I recommend Starting Strength for trainees that want to get on a basic strength program, and find most of it basic yet informative. Don't have any real issues with it, but sometimes have to provide more context when asked.

[@bragiodinsen4604]

rip's method of progression near plateu's is honestly terrible. great if you are a weak person who needs motivation. terrible if you are capable of pushing yourself into injury.

[@hansdampf4120]

Because the program is for beginners. You can revisit it from time to time to get back to the basics.

[@FrogPer]

Mark has a lot of wisdom and coaching experience. I think in a way he likes ”dirty boxing” with other fitness coaches. But maybe, deep inside, there is a sadness and longing for a broader acceptance of his knowledge and program skills?

[@user-sn8kv6vc5i]

The main basic lifts are widely recommended and variety is also widely a common factor... i guess the conflict discussed in this video is regarding the specific training programmes for specific Goals ...??? Most people can learn from starting strength and many other professionals by selecting the information/advice needed/wanted from each professional...I assume that finding coaches/trainers that can specifically help the individual(s) with their needs and Goals can be a challenge 🤔

[@stevehartwell1861]

Who gives a shit if "professionals" accept SS? What matters is results from people who use the program.

[@lidagond.325]

Correct, this applies to all industries. And yes it is baffling, this human behaviour.

[@peterschmidt7409]

I saw the intelligence of the blue and the grey book the moment i've read it. Doing this for years now, and have' even if i say so myself, pretty good numbers for an old plonker with average genetics. Fact is, i am the strongest guy in my gym. Now i tried to convince others, normal people and athletes, to do as i do, and i have to say, that's a hard sell. People rather doing shadow boxing with tiny dumbells, hell i feed heavier Bonus to my dogs. I fuess it's the same why there are mc dojo people far more as , let's say thai boxers. Everybody knows, a aikido black belt gets smoked if he tries his luck with a wrestler, a boxer, a bjj guy. So why do it? They have chosen to ignore reality and live in a bubble and rather are betrayed than doing hard and painful work....

[@crossfunctionalfitness]

What is the saying, "complexity impresses stupid people"? Or something like that. Most people think they need to be doing advanced training techniques when they've no business doing them. The NLP is so simple people overlook it.

[@divinecomedian2]

An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity, a physicist tries to make it simple, for an idiot anything the more complicated it is the more he will admire it, if you make something so clusterfucked he can't understand it he's gonna think you're a god cause you made it so complicated nobody can understand it. That's how they write journals in Academics, they try to make it so complicated people think you're a genius Terry Davis

[@ho2673]

RIPPETOE the Legend !!!!!!!!!

[@toddbarbour2562]

LOVE IT!!!

[@irongirl8007]

Because they're jealous, and they know you're right

[@0vermars520]

But everyone family in da klerrrrb

[@sleepteam]

Because it doesn’t sell well. You can’t do it indefinitely and trainers don’t like that.

[@disassorteddis2479]

Because Rips got a big mouth

[@lemuelseale1640]

Mainlys this. Ego’s get involved with too much :/

[@richards6431]

Because he is king of the bloat lords. making bs claims about how much muscle a person can gain in a month.

[@kakkakontent]

138iq confirmed.

[@markridley-vw9xh]

Letter rip Rip! Sounds like you know a lot about the human body.

[@matthewstrauts5427]

He does

[@richards6431]

he does not. he says a few words he learned years ago and repeats them

[@ErenKeskin-fg5qn]

because its not that special for atheltes, terrible for bodybuilders, and creates unbalances and mobility issues

[@Stefanoo9o6]

!

[@davidlehmann5550]

It isn’t accepted because, if we are being honest, anything works for beginners and linear progression only works for a few months. In other words, no one that is serious about gains stays with starting strength for any length time because it doesn’t actually work when you need it to work most. Also, starting strength isn’t “going against conventional wisdom”. Linear progression was conventional wisdom decades ago. It was proven not to work and we moved to effective approaches. Again, it just doesn’t work long-term and, because Rippetoe is a one trick pony, he can’t evolve.

[@matthewstrauts5427]

You obviously know nothing about Rippetoe. Who in the hell said a novice progression did last? It does work great and then when you've exhausted the novice progression you change the programming. Which he covers too. You have zero clue about what your talking about.

[@lukecoomer9349]

You're saying linear progression works, and then you go and say it doesn't work. Obviously, it does work, and that conventional wisdom was correct. Basic logic says that the more experienced you get with any skill, the more complicated and tailored your training will have to be. It's also worth pointing out that Rippetoe and company have a lot of information out there for advanced lifters.

[@sleepteam]

What in the hell are you talking about?

[@marmaladecreammedia]

You know, it's called "Starting" Strength, and he's written other books that address programming beyond the novice phase of training (Practical Programming).

[@richards6431]

use any program, just work hard. After a few months you have to mix things up

[@BBQSKI]

Because it’s a powerlifting program, and without good coaching injuries are probable

[@divinecomedian2]

Just practice the movements and don't ego lift and you'll be fine

[@MrGreen-hx8lp]

Been in the business for 50 years yet thinks he knows as much about virology as a MD. Thats the same as an MD thinking he knows as much about lifting as you. And that’s why you guys aren’t accepted by “professionals.”

[@dkgreek]

How much can you pull?

[@matthewstrauts5427]

@@dkgreekexactly!! Guessing not much

[@strategicsage7694]

@@dkgreek Completely irrelevant.

[@dkgreek]

@ 135?

[@lukecoomer9349]

Maybe it's because those MDs were completely wrong about everything on COVID? Just a thought

[@jnahara]

Easy answer: Cuz it doesn't work