Why it took 74 years for Finland to join NATO?

[@herrakaarme]

Even while suffering due to Finlandisation, Finland's democracy was quite strong and resilient. This is largely due to the parliament always consisting of a number parties, with none of them ever close to having over half of the seats alone. So, the largest party always needs to cooperate with a few others to form the government. This has an incredible moderating effect. One might say the greatest threat to Finnish democracy wasn't the USSR, it was Kekkonen. Like almost every single human who was in power for too long, he began to fancy himself irreplaceable, the only person who could possibly take care of Finland properly. Due to the atmosphere of the time, he also possessed powers that he didn't really even have, but could still exploit, such as calling newspapers' editors-in-chief and telling them it's not wise to write this or that article in this or that form. It was none of Kekkonen's business, but the newspapers still often listened to him, in fear of supposedly angering the USSR and making things difficult for Finland. Who knows if the USSR had really cared about such trifling matters, though, but the Soviet ambassadors in Finland had too much time in their hands and thus they liked to act as if the whole might of the Soviet Union was behind them when they commented on stuff. That's how paper tigers full of hot air behave.

[@amadeuz8161]

Even if Kekkonen was a bit "sauna corrupt" many saw him as the one keeping the Soviet off our backs. Like none of my grandparent ever spoke ill of him and more of him as a "necessity" and my parents again more made just jokes about him. Like they never saw him as a bad thing for the country. Dunno what generation you are but the ones that spoke of him to me was the generation fighting the war and the children after the war. Like what I have heard about him and the trust people had in him, I would probably rather have him than what we have atm moment. Lying bstrds that are trying to make us into america by trying to remove the rights of the common workers. If it continues like this we will have the same system as in USA that if you brake your leg you loose everything you own but I will be dead before they manage to destroy that much. Still its sad to see how a nation that worked as one has turned into greedy individuals that just wants dividends. Getting a steady work full time job today is like winning the lottery while back in the day you walked in the door as young and they threw you out when the law said you were too old, now they throw you out to pay dividends and to empty the company every year. It only creates insecurity and that has only a negative down spiral. So Kekkonen was nothing compared to what privatization has done here.

[@guydreamr]

@@amadeuz8161 Not all of us Americans are capitalist pigs, I for one am a firm believer in the "middle way" of a social market economy with a strong safety net of universal health care, comprehensive unemployment insurance, job training, public transit including high speed rail, green energy, affordable housing and vigorous trade unions. Voted for Bernie in 2016 and Biden in 2020 (hey he's not Bernie but why let the perfect be the enemy of the good), will continue to vote for social democratic candidates for as long as I draw breath.

[@amadeuz8161]

@@guydreamr I know that all Americans ain't capitalist pigs, but your system is and those over there enjoying the benefits of having wealth classes are influencing us over here. As long as the majority in your country want's to keep the system you have your country will represent that system so I do hope you one day can fix it before the greed infects too many. They do need to vote here still to get it through but their plans are to remove unions so that employers would get more freedom to abuse workers(now they are trying to remove the right for a worker to strike and give the employer the right to punish that employee). Then they are also hitting the poorest that already need help to be able to live a poor life, like they are going after everyone except the rich and wealthy to save money so lets see if we will have a few protests. It will be a sad day for equality here if they even get half their stuff accepted.

[@dobrasilaomundo.8086]

​@@guydreamrAmeriKKKans only care about greedy, impererialism, hate and oppression

[@2hotflavored666]

@@guydreamr Have fun paying for all of that. How does a 90% tax rate sound? Amazing doesn't it.

[@peterforan5982]

🇨🇦 stands with 🇫🇮

[@logank444]

But more importantly 🇺🇲 stands with 🇫🇮

[@therealman2016]

@@logank444 calm down stop making us Americans look untitled

[@londop.a.3048]

@@logank444 The USA is an important ally, but in NATO everyone has one voice, regardless of the size of the country

[@skp8748]

You can't even stand by yourself 😂

[@skp8748]

​@@londop.a.3048If a NATO nation needed air defence system from an another ally because it had a terrorist group, Iranian militia and Russian military fighting right on its border... Would that ally sell said air defence system which it had already sold to multiple other nato and non nato nations?

[@turbonuudel]

As Estonian I must say that I always have been admired Finland's ability to make smart decisions - especially in past. I have no clear standpoint was it good idea for Finland to join NATO or not (and it is not my business anyway) but I would say it other way around - about that "Finlandization" - let's not be sad it's over - let's be happy it did existed! It will be always symbol and perfect sample how smart nation can achieve so much with just clever and well played diplomacy instead of heated up emotions, running into wars and creating tons of polarization.

[@mmdoof]

I think the general consensus is that it was practically the optimum policy when it comes to Finland's interest. What I and many liberal-minded people may regret about it is the slight flavour of boot leather. We sold the USSR a lot of technology they couldn't have produced efficiently on their own, enabling the imperium to survive much longer than it should've. You could think of countries like Belarus and Hungary as the current-day Finlands, doing their small part in enabling Putin's crimes while trying to maximise their national interest (or at least the interest of the ruling factions). I think we should take the lessons learned and develop EU's trade policy accordingly.

[@goenzoy]

Joining NATO was the biggest mistake Finland ever made Luckely it is today a rich and also small country so it will not have a negative impact on Finland quickly

[@lassetapper2973]

We have more than 10 times more trained military personnel than all the Baltic countries COMBINED 😂

[@mikaellindroos1594]

@@goenzoy even crazy opinion is an opinion.

[@goenzoy712]

@@mikaellindroos1594 Nothing crazy about.Know a lot of Swedes unhappy about NATO membership.But I m more worried about economic prospect of whole Baltic sea area .And the small countries will suffer

[@viljanov]

It didn't take 74 years for Finland to join NATO. It took less than a year. Fastest membership process in history 😎

[@larsrons7937]

Field marshall Mannerheim smoking cigar right into der Führer's face. President Kekkonen keeping Khrushchev sweating in the sauna till 5 o'clock in the morning. You Finnish have always known how to negotiate without bending to powerful regime's leaders. Welcome in NATO, Finnish sisters and brothers. We have kept the chair warm for you since 1949. Cheers from Denmark.

[@lassetapper2973]

🇫🇮🇸🇪🇸🇯🇩🇰🇮🇸 Soon we will have ALL our Nordic brothers together

[@larsrons7937]

@@lassetapper2973 Yes. It feels a bit like the "Kalmar Union" revived, except that now it's within a much larger union of (almost) all of Europe and N. America. We are still missing Ukraine and the few other countries in E: Europe.

[@lassetapper2973]

@@larsrons7937 Worst case scenario we have a joint defense with the countries we trust the most. And we have our own region. Finland and soon Sweden in NATO is real security for us.

[@larsrons7937]

@@lassetapper2973 Yes. And we Nordic countries would have defended eachother already, NATO or not. But backed & supported by the whole alliance the defense is much stronger. And that goes the other way too. Both Finland and Sweden have very capable militaries, and that can fully operate in combination with the rest of NATO right away.

[@lassetapper2973]

@@larsrons7937 Yup.Both Finland and Sweden have co-ordinated with NATO for about two decades.And you Danes are one of the founders of NATO. To those who use the argument that NATO means war just look at Denmark and Norway. Not exactly wartorne countries. And besides basically all of NATOs members are in the European Union. Why wouldn't we join an alliance whit the same countries we have a freedom of movement agreement with??

[@madderanger7838]

Thank you for a clear, concise and through brief on Finlandization. It is interesting to see how and why it was practiced.

[@paloman95]

This is a well researched and articulated video. Interesting to hear how finlandization is viewed by an outsider.

[@johansvideor]

I remember as a little boy hearing the electoral votes being counted: Kekkonen, Kekkonen, Kekkonen. And when Koivisto became president after Kekkonen, I even thought, how will Finland manage now without Kekkonen? The fear of Russia was deeply rooted. My grandfather being a disabled veteran and my grandmothers brother KIA. Plus many other relatives. So I had heard the stories and heard about fear and horrors. There were still stories told through generations about the Great Wrath were elderly people could tell where e.g. a cossack had been killed by the locals and from which homesteads children had been kidnapped. This is a small part of stories about suffering that neighboring countries to Russia always have to endure due to Russian imperialist and colonialist behavior. Many cultures and language groups have been annihilated by Russian imperialism. Circassia is one example of complete genocide. And nothing has unfortunately changed to this day. Russia must be defeated. Slava Ukraini!

[@georgeapostol4285]

Yes, Russia, USSR and Russia again were/are imperial powers. Same stands for all mighty countries during a long history. The mostly known after 1300: Spain, Portugal, France, Great Britain, Turkye, Germany, Austro-Hungary, Japan, USA. On smaller scale: Nederland, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria. Almost all countries tried to extend their borders for various reasons or pretexts.

[@johansvideor]

@@georgeapostol4285 That is true. But as other European nations have put their imperialistic and colonialist behavior behind them, Russia has not. These western nations have embraced UN principles and adhere to rules-based international order. Admittedly, some nations have recently committed atrocities in the name of "good vs evil". USA as forerunner doing some sort of balancing act between their commercial interests and aforementioned principles. But as a Finn, I feel so lucky being part of the western democracies instead of as a subjugated part of a Russian empire.

[@ManWithOneName]

Erittäin hyvin sanottu!💪🏻

[@wwondertwin]

Kekkoslovakia era Finland isn't that different from Belarus today, except that Luka has nukes (even if he doesn't have codes).

[@luukas2660]

@@JamesSmith-ix5jd Im pretty sure Europe was united AGAINST Napoleon but whatever I guess. For example the 4th coalition saw Britain, Prussia, Russia, Saxony and Sweden join forces against Napoleon. Not that you'd care because the Russians have certainly been very adept at lying about history these past 100 years.

[@jm-holm]

It is also interesting to note, that post-WW2 as the communist influence and power was increasing with the support of the USSR and the left-leaning parties grouped together to take the majority vote and essentially full control of the country - the social democratic party refused to join their ranks. If that had gone differently, Finland's post-war history may look quite different.

[@mmdoof]

Yeah, the Nordic mainstream left has been quite based on several of these crises. In Finland, especially the trade unions are very democracy-minded and they were a major influence not only during the Cold War but also running up to the NATO application.

[@samis6553]

True. It's quite interesting to read on CIA reports on Finland in the 1950s (unclassified these days). Their assessment was that USA should support the social democratic party in any way they can because in their mind it was the best rival against the actual communists.

[@mmdoof]

@@samis6553 Yup, that was pretty much SDP's role in the parliament. Also behind closed doors there was a loose network of anti-soviets that the SDP silently condoned. They held a lot of power in local politics, industry, associations, academia and other fields of nonparliamentary politics, guarding them from communist takeovers. This was the primitive form of what's now known as the system of Comprehensive Security and when the USSR collapsed, this silent cooperation spawned an open red-blue coalition that is still strong in many municipal administrations.

[@JoriLindroth]

Practically all of those Social Democrats had fought against the muskovites together with all the other Finns in the war. They were all Finns first. And it wasn't even close. Not even in the same galaxy. Something the muskovites never understood. And never will.

[@mmdoof]

@@JoriLindroth I'm sure it was tempting for the kremlin to just add up all the people who fought on the Red side during WWI and think this was their support base for the russification of the Finnish society. But it wasn't that simple.

[@zurielsss]

It’s almost look like it won’t work in most cases, but the Finns made it work and it’s close to a miracle

[@joanofarc6402]

It’s brutal living next to Russia! 😮

[@hatchxable]

Tell that to Mexico where the lost 55% of their territory to the United States. Mexico grew as a weak country while the US is self-sufficient with the oil that extracts from Texas.

[@hirsm]

@@hatchxable that was 177 years ago.... Russia is still actively trying to expand and has stated that it's borders end nowhere. They want Ukraine as much they want east Germany

[@hatchxable]

@@hirsm it doesn't change the fact that it greatly hurt mexico development as a nation while the US took advantage of the rich oil fields when took half of their country. And the rest of your narrative is pure propaganda and misinformation from the west. If Russia really wanted to expand for imperialistic reason and annex Ukraine, the Russians would have done it in 2014/2015 when the Ukrainian army was weak and wasn't equipped and assisted by NATO. Instead the Russian waited 8 years for Ukraine to implement the Minsk agreements, give certain level of semi autonomy to the Donbas while Ukraine retains sovereignty over the region. With that said, what part of not Ukraine in NATO you did not understand? Since 2008 Russia warned to the west that Ukraine in NATO is unacceptable, and in 2014 the whole issue just blew up on everyone faces after the western backed coup d'etat of the euromaidan. The reality is that the Minsk agreements were a scam by Ukraine and the west just to buy time and rearm its army. The reason behind it was to take the Donbas by force, get rid off the Russian speaking citizens of Ukraine. In fact, most of the current land of Ukraine exists because of Russia. If it were up to the west, Ukraine would have been divided between Poland and other neighbors ages ago.

[@timor64]

This video is superbly made. Really informataive. I have heard the term "Finlandisation" thrown around for decades and roughly understood its meaning, but this video explains what it actually meant in practice. One question - did people inside Finland themselves refer to "Finlandisation"? Or was it simply known as "national foreign policy" or similar.

[@GeoPerspective]

The term wasn't used by Fins as far as I know. It was made up in Germany.

[@eludros5029]

The term (suomettuminen) has mostly been used in hindsight as people have begun to view Kekkonen a bit more critically. The word itself was never used in official policy and was/is more of a criticism toward it.

[@leisti]

Before the end of the Cold War, many Finns did not want to acknowledge the reality of the situation, described concisely by the word "Finlandization". It was not used officially, but it was certainly used in non-official debate and discussion, including in the media.

[@tj-co9go]

Not during the cold war, but after it, we have used it all the time to refer to our own past. So, yes, nowadays we speak of "Finlandisation" openly. In the past only a few people dared to speak against USSR and certainly they were not prominent in politics, academia or media, mostly right-wing people. While there were no legal consequences, they were socially stigmatised

[@timor64]

@@GeoPerspective Indeed that is mainly where I heard it ("Finlandisiert") and had no idea what it meant at first - was not commonly used in Australia that is for sure.

[@viljanov]

Since becoming a part of Russian empire, Finland has always inched towards the West in small steps, and always with the perfect timing. The independence was declared in 1917, when Russia had its hands full with October revolution. Finland bought the first Western Hornet fighter jets in 1993, became NATO peace partner in 1994 and joined the EU in 1995, when the USSR had collapsed and Russia was in total chaos. Finally, Finland joined NATO after already well-laid preparations in 2023, when Russia was getting trashed waist-deep in the mire of the Ukraine war. Timing is the king 👑

[@IrishCinnsealach]

and russia joined the nato partnership for peace at the same time and created the nato russia permanent joint council in 97 russia ratified the joint partnership in 20022. so was that russia inching towards the west?

[@jussim.konttinen4981]

On July 1, 1977, tariffs on most industrial products were completely removed from trade between Finland and the EEC countries.

[@operaatio5117]

Nah, the war in Ukraine was pretty much an excuse to join NATO. The perfect opportunity to steer the people into supporting NATO.

[@herptek]

One minor correction: Finland did not change sides. Germany did. Finland negotiated a separate peace, Germany started the hostilities over it, although Finland severed diplomatic relations according to the peace terms. The general staff thought they had a mutual understanding with the Germans about their withdrawal.

[@scottjackson1420]

Finland did the best they could under their circumstance. I don't blame them one bit for cooperating with Germany when WWII began. Any country that can produce Jari Kurri, Teemu Selanne, and Saku Koivu is OK by me.

[@sulosky]

Thank you for the kind words.. it was the USSR that cooperated with Germany at the beginning of World War II. Finland started cooperation with Germany only later.

[@maksim05makarov]

Don't blame them for sending the population of Karelia to destruction in the Third Reich? And for the export of the population (after the Second World War, the number of Karelians in Karelia unexpectedly decreased)?

[@tremedar]

@@maksim05makarov Why the hell would they leave their citizens at the mercy of the russian barbarians? Of course they evacuated them. And since a disturbing number of people in positions of power among the allies thought the soviets were their friends, they had two choices: Deal with the nazis or accept enslavement by the soviets.

[@RR-jz2up]

​@@maksim05makarov shut up, russki. Your country systematically murdered people that can match only nazi numbers.

[@maksim05makarov]

@@tremedar According to this logic, any person who is in the occupied territory is a citizen of the occupying country. And even if we imagine that these are Finnish citizens, what about the first point?

[@jpmitchell8144]

Comment for algorithm, keep up the good work!

[@pasivaan9563]

Good video and the facts are correct. 👍

[@bmunson4920]

The maps show Crimea as part of Russia. This is in error, as virtually no countries recognize this.

[@roxylius7550]

Why not? Most crimeans are russian and they chose to leave ukraine and join russia just like Kosovo chose to leave serbia and declared independence. Why support one but not the other? Is it double standard? Hypocrisy? What is it?

[@Nastgardaren]

@@roxylius7550 I can't recall that the referendum in Kosovo occured while under Albanian occupation

[@goldbullet50]

But it is part of Russia, and maps should reflect that reality. I guess they could have something along the lines of "disputed territory" or something to make it even more accurate.

[@akinav]

@@goldbullet50 just because russia have sent rapists and terrorists with tanks in to that region and "took control" of it does not mean that it is part of russia... same way as afghanistan was never part of usa even though they had their troops and tanks there..

[@goldbullet50]

@@akinav Crimea has over 2 million Russians, who largely support being part of Russia. Crimea was annexed by Russia almost a decade ago, and has been firmly part of Russia ever since then. What next, Hawaii is not part of USA because it was annexed 120 years ago? How many decades must we wait until we can update our maps?

[@slamsgt6642]

Finland had to pay 300 million dollars of industrial tech not 200 thousand billion.

[@kapuseta]

300 million USD in 1938 dollar value. Estimated value in todays Euros would be well over 5 billion €.

[@slamsgt6642]

@@kapuseta Juu, mutta se jätkä ei sitä sanonut.

[@Kissamiess]

Finlandization was necessary in its time. However, the problems came it was no longer necessary, but was so ingrained to many politicians' way of thinking it was hard to change course quickly enough. Some even argue we are being too subservient to the EU the same way we used to be towards the SU.

[@smartguy360]

Russia was know throughout history as the prison of nations

[@AndyT-np8mm]

Finland is the place where you can spend a two-week holiday without being spoken to by anyone. They're so friendly.

[@AndyT-np8mm]

@kotikunnas1291 🆗

[@mikeh2772]

@kotikunnas1291 Why? That would take away from my two-week holiday of not being talked to.

[@MRtapio5]

What out everyone in the comments. There are some putinist in the comments (u will see spefic people in here) who is trying to do every they can to make them look better. So remember to take every commwnt witu pinch of salt

[@jonirischx8925]

How many putinists are with you in the room right now? We Finnish people are not a monolith, and can have sincere political differences that can be discussed. Not everyone you disagree with is a putinist, and we shouldn't be too eager to force some national mythology, or political standard, as something that if you disagree with it, you're immediately labeled 'the enemy'... Finland's political history is rich and varied, and remains to this day very divided. This idea of some unified Finnish hivemind, that agrees on a single political/historical narrative of our country, does not exist.

[@kekkoinen]

​@@jonirischx8925 "well i support Russia and hate anything west, we should speak Russian and give the rest of Karelia to Russia, but no i am not putinist or anything"

[@jonirischx8925]

@@kekkoinen Nice pretty strawman you got there, but you don't know anything about my politics. If that's all you got out of my comment, seek help...

[@Awesomewithaz]

Welcome brother.

[@julkkis666]

the thing with german monarch in finland was more of the finnish parlament's idea. the candidate was hesitant and once germany lost WWI he respectfully declined since he didn't want to bring problems with him to finland

[@Pekka2021]

At 9:48 you erroneusly claim that The Gulag Archipelago was not on sale in Finland. In reality, it was published in Finnish by the name Vankileirien Saaristo in three volumes between 1974-78. I myself loaned them from my town library in the seventies. The confusion may arise from the fact this book was too hot to touch for the regular publisher for Solzhenitsyn (Tammi). Therefore, the first volume was printed by a Swedish publishing house (Wahlström & Widstrand) before finding a Finnish publisher (Kustannuspiste) for the two other volumes.

[@GeoPerspective]

Fascinating

[@r3cy]

Did I hear that right, the claimed reparations Finland made to The Soviet Union were $200,000,000,000,000? ("Two hundred thousand billion $"). Seems high :P

[@GeoPerspective]

I must have misread, Wikipedia has this to say US$300,000,000 at 1938 prices (equivalent to US$6.24 billion in 2022)

[@r3cy]

@@GeoPerspective It's a good video. clear, concise and well narrated. I didn't realise it had only just been uploaded and now I feel like a pedantic arse (I'm used to my pedantry being hidden amongst thousands of comments :P)

[@GeoPerspective]

@@r3cy thanks for watching :)

[@exundfluriba]

4.7 billion is the correct figure, 2022 dollars

[@andrejsurdevics6476]

But of course the USSR did not pay any reparations for their invasion of Finland in 1939 and taking approximately 10% of Finnish land.

[@XA1985]

My guess is that Finland always wanted to join nato but was afraid to encourage an invasion from Russia. The war in Ukraine significantly weaken Russia and Finland saw it as is now or never opportunity

[@chimmynah_and_kookie]

I am a Finn and I never wanted us to join NATO.

[@butterflies655]

Most of the Finns did not want to join Nato. Russia's attack Ukraine changed their minds.

[@Azdroc96]

@@chimmynah_and_kookie Really? Why?

[@anvold5152]

Yeah, they always been cowards and just played neutral country. They just waited a moment, then they can backstab Russia. An they did it in 2022. I don't think that they'll get any forgiveness from Russia like they got during WW2.

[@OldieBugger]

Yea, I heard this part from radio: Kekkonen, Kekkonen, Kekkonen, Kekkonen, Kekkonen, Kekkonen... back in 1974. But Kekkonen did a good job eventually by keeping us independent from Russians. Can't blame him for that. He may have been a bit of autocrat, but he was OUR autocrat.

[@mmdoof]

I don't think anything really legitimises such autocracy, but it was indeed not rare during early Cold War. Spain and Greece for example were full-blown dictatorships during this era. Western reactionary dictatorships also fit USSR's geopolitics nicely, as they made their own authoritarianism look a little less bad, at least in propaganda.

[@Polecatmtn]

Excellent!

[@alehaim]

11:50 seems to have the wrong footage. Besides that I think the writer did a good job

[@GeoPerspective]

I actually got a copyright claim there on the original upload so I’m glad I had the chance to replace the footage.

[@alehaim]

@@GeoPerspective I see

[@eskokauppila1327]

"...all honours to kekkonen and koivisto they were friendship to seamen all over the world -also ahtisaari and halonen even sauli niinistö's first period was kind

[@davidbowie5023]

Finland, you have such a suck border, yet you stay resilient against the eastern threat. No one deserves more salute than the Finns. We Irish people salute you too, Finland. 🇮🇪🤝🏻🇫🇮

[@e1123581321345589144]

14:40 there is a certain nation in North America who might want to take note of this...

[@jeffersonwright6249]

It didn’t take the Finns 74 years to join NATO, it took them 74 HOURS once they realised that if Putin were to succeed in the Ukraine they’d be next on his menu!

[@kekkoinen]

For 74 years Russia looked like a powerful enemy, not anymore

[@keyboarddancers7751]

Finland's delayed but rapid accession to NATO could prove to be one of the biggest jests in strategic history!

[@huitase313]

Simple: because of Ruzzia

[@lattekahvi1298]

Finns are mostly pragmatic bunch, in the 90s NATO membership wasn't seen as necessary as there was still long history of good relations with USSR mostly fueled by trade as Finland was able to sell western technology to Soviet Union, when Russian federation started to show its true colors with invasion on Georgia and Crimea there wasn't good opportunity as its always a bad idea to piss off a bigger neighbor... up until Russian full on invasion of Ukraine in 2022 when Kremlin both showed their apathy towards independence and neutrality in a global sense and how weak Russian military actually was... it was clear in a month after the beginning of the invasion that Russia is not going to be able to pose a military threat in a few years and yet they are still hostile to Finland due to its western democratic affiliation so it was better join NATO now while we still had a chance and that's a moral debt Finland has to Ukraine which needs to be paid, if not with weapons then with reconstruction

[@JamesSmith-ix5jd]

If we invaded Georgia why is it still there on the map? Did we lost or what? If we lost why there is still a conflict? If we won why Georgia exists and not annexed into Russia? If we invaded Crimea how was it possible that no one have died and Russian flags were all over the place? If people are happy with your invasion is it really an invasion or reunification? Maybe West Germany invaded the East Germans by that logic?

[@calbackk]

Over all a quite good resume of Finlands recent history. However your phrasing of Finland “shifting sides” sits very poorly with me. Finland was cobelingerent with Germany and fighting the Soviet Union, but certainly no one else. It is off course true that Finland shifted side relative Germany, but you make it sound a lot “broader”.

[@B_o4ke_Y_TBoEu_MAMbl]

You made a huge mistake in preview. It didn't took 74 years for Finland to join NATO. It took only a bit more, than a year

[@p.s9407]

There was no difference in post soviet countries and democratic countries. Not a single post soviet country join ussr all of them was occupied and had no choice. Every country here wanted to be free and democratic.

[@n6rt9s]

The USSR and the eastern block were more democratic than the US lol. As an anarchist, I hate both, but the capitalist imperialist west is undeniably worse.

[@tuurelindstrom1238]

I have to disagree. Atleast in US you can choose between communal or individual living, have freedom of speech to critize US for all of its faults and have right to move around and gather with people and form your own socialistic utopia (under the laws of state) asuming that you find people with will to do so. Sorry for any mistakes in spelling and grammar as I am not native english speaker.

[@stischer47]

@@n6rt9s Right. More like a Russian bot.

[@n6rt9s]

@@stischer47 Can you read? I'm literally an anarchist. I HATE hierarchies and oppression, therefore I hate capitalism and states. The USSR had a corupt state but a more democratic econo (still not socialist nor communist though). The US is ultracapitalist oligarchy with extremely corrupt state. So yeah, both suck but the US is worse. I don't understand why are you bringing modern Russia into this. Anyway, it is obviously even worse than the US internally (more capitalism, more hierarchies, even more corrupt authoritarian state), but the US is still the number one imperialist power. That's obviously only because Russia is weak af. I believe Russia would be even worse world hegemon than the US is. So USSR > US > Russia, but all 3 suck.

[@p.s9407]

@@n6rt9s I have only one question, where are you from? Because I can bet my life savings you are not from a post soviet country my man and you have no idea how was it living under ussr 🙃

[@mothermovementa]

❤️

[@metropolicec1787]

simple avnser: we dont want conflict. we want to be like the swiss

[@Ironbattlemace]

It has been always very divisive question. I didn't like the idea because everyone of us has to go to army and NATO has been involved in pretty scetchy wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, I didn't want even a slight chance for my people to die in a desert for war of lies. But now when Russia is sperging out, we might need NATO. I just hope no one finds oil in near future.

[@Silvergalaxy7383]

All of Scandinavia has oil plus you get to trade it instead getting it stolen

[@turkoositerapsidi]

​@@Silvergalaxy7383Skandinavia may have oil but we in Suomi (Finland) do not really have that as far as I am aware.

[@turkoositerapsidi]

Jos Suomesta löytyy öljyä, paljonko jenkit suostuisi maksamaan siitä?

[@butterflies655]

Why did it take more than 74 years for Sweden to join Nato and it is not still in it. Sweden is still waiting....

[@_ArsNova]

Because, like every other Eastern Bloc buffer state, the Soviet Union/Russia used virtually every tool in its foreign policy arsenal to prevent them from joining NATO? Having NATO countries immediately on its borders has always been an unacceptable scenario to the Soviets/Russians. The answer to the query posited by the title of your video isn’t really that complex.

[@kekkoinen]

"yes i make enemies and cry and throw a fit when they don't like me" the genius of ruzzian diplomacy

[@turkoositerapsidi]

Putin on paras NATOn myyntimies, niinhän sitä sanotaan.

[@shahinbaghdasarian7456]

Why couldn't Finland join NATO in 1991 since that's when soviet union collapsed?

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

Internal divide. A lot of people either didn't want to, or didn't dare to be in favor of joining Nato. It was only after February 2022 that we got enough support from people to join.

[@kapuseta]

Finns were more interested in the EU. Keep in mind that after the collapse of the USSR, many people thought that the West had won forever, and NATO had become basically obsolete, since it's main adversary (USSR) was gone. Many politicians in Finland and elsewhere in Europe also thought that we could integrate the new Russia as a European state by establishing friendlier relations and closer trade. Putin has obviously shown for good that it was wishful thinking.

[@viljanov]

Good question. Because the Finnish leadership then argued that evading the fate of becoming a part of USSR was enough and it couldn't happen again.

[@butterflies655]

Finns did not want to join Nato that time. Russia's attack on Ukraine changed their minds.

[@florintrifan935]

The term "finlandization" is used when refering to other country than Finland when trying to say that this different country is agreed by the stronger power to pursue the same agreement as with Finland, but what Finland got was not a finlandization (this is absurd, the Finland can not be more Finland than it already is), but if you want russification.

[@alehaim]

Finlandization was a term created be West German opposition politicans to refer to Finland's peculiar relationship with the Soviet Union, which then evolved to the term Finlandization that takes its form in part from the Finnish Paasiki-Kekkonen doctrine. Finlands "Finlandization was most recently in 2021/2022 suggested as one of the ways that the Ukrainain crisis could be solved as one of the newest examples of its use. Terms are weird, due to which Finland is able to experience Finlandization. Also I don't get what you meant with the last bit about Russification, but I will clarify just because that Russification is vastly different from Finalndization owing to how Russification means turning a place's culture and politics to that of Russia, while Finlandization means a more complex political doctrine

[@MedK001]

Finlandization means to turn a place into Finland (i.e its politics controlled by a larger neighboring country)

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

Russification was a different thing and happened to plenty other nations too

[@goyslop-consumer]

200,000 billion dollars? 200 trillion dollars?

[@MissCheeseE]

I hope joining NATO doesn’t affect Finland’s economy nor its internal politics.

[@debater452]

Why would it

[@Nozzred]

And why it took 74 years for Sweden to apply membership to Nato when they could done that the same time with Denmark, Norway and Iceland? Beacuse soviet would swallow Finland.

[@DanielosVK]

First of all - no, it would not, at least not that easily. Second - you're not going to tell me Sweden has remained neutral for so many years just because of Finland?

[@Nozzred]

@@DanielosVK 1949 to the 60s it was beacuse what would happend to Finland. Then it also added that Sweden should be more neutral between West and commun ist block. In 90s- 00s it was more of "Peace in our time" mentality and heavy cuts in defence. For Sweden it would have been way way cheaper to have joined Nato from the start - we spent way more then the 2% goal that Nato have.

[@pasivaan9563]

@@Nozzred Sweden has not had to join NATO. Finland has always taken care of Sweden's defense against Russia, and Sweden has had security guarantees from the United States since the 1950s. Sweden has benefited a lot from its "neutrality". In fact, I think that Sweden is not sorry even if Turkey and Hungary do not ratify their NATO membership.

[@MRtapio5]

​@@Nozzred1. No it wouldn't. Agreement was made with soviets that of Finland is neutral they won't invade 2. Sweden didnt end up neutral because of Finland... They just kept their neutrality

[@n6rt9s]

​@@Nozzred the USSR and the eastern block were NOT communist. Stop calling them that.

[@TheGogleHome]

You talking about Finland history, how bad it was affected by russia's several empires and, still, show Crimea as russian territory. Why?

[@pnugen]

can say what you want about kekkonen....but we prevail, Finland have and had always a good president same as a good prime, it was one tricky dick, that you all figure it out by yourself....NOW its different...thus we in Nato....its kinda simple....just my 2 cents or should I say pennies ? :)

[@mikemilk2653]

Finland lost many big and new power plants too. The Jäniskoski area with power plants was one. Read about it, and you realize, that it was Stalins and ruskis robbery trip. Soviet union steal 30-40 % whole finnish industry. Many of those factories and power plants was just while take on use. Forest industry, chemical industry, steal industry, clothes industry etc... No way to get Arctic ocean after 1944. Good fishing waters. Big losses for quite small country and nation.

[@bigdaddyfrogstat]

Great video, but "200 thousand billion dollars" makes no sense. I'm not sure that much money even exists in the world.

[@PopsKrispy-ph9de]

Nord land /Swe land / FIN land 🐋, 🌊ENg land 🌊 NEWz Land Ostro Ostra 🦩 Ostrich

[@eskokauppila1327]

"...no nato natoian-sovietian

[@muchomail9086]

Pure propaganda filled with questionable "facts". This must be of Russian origin.

[@GOLDEN_ROGER118]

Good bless 🇷🇺🇨🇳🇿🇦🇮🇩🇸🇦🇦🇪🇲🇾

[@debater452]

Over half of these are US allies so

[@anvold5152]

@@debater452 not allies. Puppets

[@debater452]

@@anvold5152 What are you talking about

[@anvold5152]

@@debater452 about reality

[@debater452]

@@anvold5152 Explain

[@stasacab]

Finland had had twice the Germans come to "help" and in both times it was costly. The people of Finland did not want foreign armies here. Lastly Finns were betrayed by "our" government of Quislings and Finland became doormat for NATO. It will not end well for the Finns. We never get to vote whether we wanted to join NATO or not. Americans out!

[@viljanov]

"We". Nice try Sergei 😂

[@kekkoinen]

Average VKK shill

[@stasacab]

@@kekkoinen Average neocon answer.

[@kekkoinen]

@@stasacab You'd have to be a Russian bot or deranged (so a VKK shill) to think that. so pick your poisont.

[@mikaellindroos1594]

BS. 85%yes for NATO and 187vs.7.off 200 parlament.

[@abrakadavra3193]

Finland, Switzerland, Austria are among the most developed nations in the world and they weren't in Nato. Why some feel a need to join this imperialist organisaton is beyond me

[@viljanov]

Finland agreed to stay outside of NATO as long as Russia agreed to respect its neighbours' borders. Simple really.

[@ВладСередюк-ф9ч]

​@@viljanov maybe NATO should have respected Russia's border in the first place? So the war wouldn't have happened?

[@viljanov]

@@ВладСередюк-ф9ч Has NATO then somehow violated the Russian border? I should remind you that Yeltsin signed in 1997 the NATO-Russia founding act, where Russia acknowledged that any sovereign country can freely join NATO.

[@ВладСередюк-ф9ч]

@@viljanov Why did they need to join in the first place? The country, aganist whom they were supposed to defend already collapsed, Russia had a pro-western stance, there was no one to defend aganist, but they still expanded a DEFENSIVE alliance eastward. And didn't even allowed Russia to join, twice btw... P.S. Yeltsin was a drunkard and a puppet of oligarchs, so yeah, fuck him...

[@debater452]

​@@ВладСередюк-ф9чIf contries want to join Nato they should have the right to join especially when Russia is an agressive neighbor

[@kdexter2690]

Welcome Finland to NATO from Greece 🇬🇷 Next one is Sweden and Ukraine 🇺🇦

[@billywiththebulgingbaloonb5105]

Keep dreaming. 😅 If Sweden was allowed in to NATO it would have happened three times over by now. America didn't give a damn about helping you fight Turkey in Cyprus, why would they care about helping us deal with Erdogan now?

[@galvk]

There is a Russian proverb "Сколько волка ни корми, он в лес смотрит" (You can feed a wolf as much as you like, in vain, the wolf will always look for the forest"). Deep rooted hostility for East people is in the West Europeans gens. The ancestors of West Europeans came from Iberian peninsula to the Europe and killed all hunters-gatherers with elaborate culture, living in Europe long time before. The "westerners" moved further eastwards and finally had been stopped by Slav's ancestors, who lived on the territory of East Germany, Lituania and Poland.

[@viljanov]

We have a similar proverb in Finnish: "A russky is always a russky, even if you fry him in butter". Which means Russians can never be trusted. By the way, your theory of warlike "Westerners" is just hilarious, ahistorical nonsense. The West has nothing against Slavs in general, only Russians and Serbians, who are the most uncivilized, brutal people of all Slavs.

[@andersbergman457]

the border with russia was peaceful. no unsolved issues. with its decision to join up with the enemies of russia finland has now turned itself into a prime target.

[@ospehu1]

Psst since when we have not been target to USSR/Russia? There nukes has always pointed on us and there for we have been prepared for them since 1945. You should check up youtube clips like Helsinki underground city etc.. we have always known that we are on there sight alwaya have been always shall. That is why we have storages for food fuel, medicine etc for months. That is why we have nuclear shelters carved to over 20m of granite ang gneis bedrock that can take direct nuke strike and absorve the radiotio biologycal and chemical weapons and need no service from outside form months. That is why there is no highways traveling from east to west and railroads goes from south to north. So other way saying our country is planned in a way that since russia trust amount more than skill's all the things are planned in away that invasion would Costa for invador such amount troops they can not take it. There is only few places that can be used the invasion from east and all the roads can be blown up and all the ways that invaders after that neef to go trough forset, lakes and granite bedrock to advance and if they go trough forrest it is our "Church" and this is our hunting ground and we know how to use it on our advane. So if the russians wont go trough granite bedrock they shall be hunted down every where else. And since after Finland buyed rathion/raffael david sling all missiles they could use would Drop on there own soil.

[@darkmage7280]

We've always been a prime target. Only now we have friends backing us up.

[@andersbergman457]

@@darkmage7280 do you really believe that? finlands only value is its proximity to russia. for nato finland is a launching pad, for russia finland was just another patch of forest. but now that changes. now finland must be destroyed or else nato will destroy russia.

[@trikyy7238]

Oh sweet summer child.

[@kekkoinen]

​@@andersbergman457 yes attack Finland, see how that goes

[@horror11]

did anyone in finland truly believe that russia i an enemy to finland? if i was a fin i would be very worried about joining the nato. finland cannot gain anything from it but just become cannonfodder like the ukranians became after the usa took over in 2014.

[@itsJPhere]

What do you think NATO is?

[@horror11]

@@itsJPhere nato is an imperial army of vassals, building up to control the world, what do u think is nato?

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

No, we don't believe that Russia is an enemy. We know that Russia is an enemy. We never forgot, we never forgave.

[@jussim.konttinen4981]

​@@horror11Finland allied with the Nazis in 1941. If you think Hitler is better than Biden, you should get your head examined

[@horror11]

@@mielipuolisiili7240 perhaps u didnt know but finland was at war with the sovietunion, not with russia. u see russia was taken over by the communist bolshevic massmurderers who even sided with the nazis when they attacked poland and ended its existence. after the invasion of germany into the soviet union the fin allied themselves with the nazis, which had the final solution of beeing on the losing side of ww2 and the soviets allowed finland to continue existing under the precondition of beeing neutral for the rest of time. now finland has been tricked by the american to make themselves a viable target for russia if russia feels threatened from finlands side. finland will become cannonfodder like ukraine just to fulfil the american interests. what do u think would happen if russia really invades finland?

[@LedBass]

The big question is: Why does NATO still exists and is it somekind of US neo-colonialism?

[@viljanov]

It's a very odd form of colonialism, if democratic countries decide to join it willingly, wouldn't you say?

[@maksim05makarov]

Они просто не знали, что в правительстве сидят куколды. Если бы сейчас был Сталин, он бы сразу перекрыл бы любое взаимодействие с Финляндией (хотя нет, при Сталине такой ситуации просто бы не возникло)

[@MRtapio5]

Oh... You are a communists stalinist... Well now your comments makes sense...

[@lattekahvi1298]

Если бы Сталин все еще был у власти, вас бы не было в живых, потому что в России не осталось бы врачей.

[@kekkoinen]

Yes block all contact with us, we don't want any more of you here anyway

[@Luiki-o2v]

Slava Russia

[@Azdroc96]

Russia sucks.

[@kingdedede333]

Comrade Stalin went too easy on them

[@debater452]

Meaby because he couldn't do anything

[@kingdedede333]

@@debater452 He certainly could

[@trikyy7238]

Stalin was too clever to create a festering wound on his western border. He should have killed all 4 000 000 of us to pacify the land, and Cold War had already begun. He had more common sense than your current dictator, who tried to gobble up an unconquerable nation of 40 000 000 people. SLAVA UKRAINI!

[@kekkoinen]

​@@kingdedede333 too late, try to attack and we'll glass Pietari

[@viljanov]

​​​@@kingdedede333 He actually couldn't. Even the last battles in continuation war were Finnish victories. Stalin wasted half a million soldiers on the Finnish front but couldn't occupy it. Also, Roosevelt had his word to say on Finland's future as well and Stalin took it seriously. Stalin is on record for saying in Tehran conference in 1943 "any nation that has fought so hard for independence like Finland deserves respect".

[@georgeapostol4285]

Neutral Ukraine? GMAB

[@Ylinasiantuntija]

Finland's place is not in the military alliance.

[@MietoK]

Jonne ei tajuu

[@Ylinasiantuntija]

@@MietoK "Venäjä hyökkäsi Ukrainaan ilman syytä." Onko todisteita? Suomen menestys on perustunut puolueettomuuteen. Alamäkeä on körötelty EU-jäsenyydestä lähtien.

[@londop.a.3048]

@@Ylinasiantuntija Ukraine is a sovereign nation, and like any other country, it has the right to govern itself without interference from external forces.

[@Ylinasiantuntija]

@@londop.a.3048 Finland is not Ukraine. Do not make rushkji so pissed that him attacks. Like USA-Afghanistan 2001.

[@MietoK]

@@Ylinasiantuntija Jonne ei vieläkään tajuu. Lainataan vaikkapa Kenraali Ehrnroottia: "”Ei koskaan enää yksin!”"

[@aatukorhonen17]

we sould not have joined eu

[@PopsKrispy-ph9de]

Courted 🔁 🏠 Fa 🔁mily Fr🔁iend )🏃🏃🏃 applicant 🔁 applicant

[@Detvanliga]

LIberal politics has brought us to this situation... .

[@hatchxable]

Finland joining NATO is foolish and stupid. The Soviet Union was much more of a threat to Finland than the Russian Federation, yet Finland remained neutral during the Soviet times

[@ozzell]

Because it was forced to remain neutral by the Soviet Union.

[@stischer47]

Yes, even the Baltics, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Bulgaria recognized the "foolishness" of joining NATO as soon as they could. Such foolishness kept them from suffering the fate of Ukraine and Georgia.

[@aidan883]

Finland remained neutral because the soviet union threatened to invade them.

[@santeriberg8129]

Soviets held Finland at gunpoint and threatened to invade if Finland moved towards West even an inch. Russian Federation does not have enough power to do the same and in NATO we are.

[@jmespoo]

Staying neutral has not helped Ukraine, has it?Independant countries decide themselves about their memberships and democracy is the key!

[@samuelhakansson6680]

"Why did it take" is the proper phrasing of the question, not "why it took". "Why it took" is a phrase you use if you intend to present an explanation, but it doesn't fit with a question mark.

[@eddiekulp1241]

Because they knew they would be protected in case they were threatened. They coasted at the expense of the U.S. taxpayers

[@londop.a.3048]

Finland does take care of its own defense as before, of course you get additional security from NATO, It's nice to have friends. In the 90s, European countries reduced their armed forces, Finland did not. History has taught Finns that Russia cannot be trusted. Finnish army it is one of the largest in Europe. Finns have 280,000 army + reserve of 900,000 men + even more men if needed. Military service is mandatory for all men and voluntary for women in Finland. Finnish F18 fighters will become obsolete in the next few years, but the F 35's are bought with the money of the Finnish taxpayers as well as other weapons that are bought all the time. 2 percent GDP is clearly exceeded. Finland can defend itself for a long time alone, as in World War II, but due to Finland's location, only NATO can secure supply routes.

[@leisti]

I love it how the internet is full of commentators absolutely confident in their assessment of situations of which they have zero knowledge.

[@CorporalCookie]

I love how you so proudly declare your ignorance.

[@hirsm]

knowledge from Tucker Carlson

[@pretzelbomb6105]

@@londop.a.3048 This is something people really don’t seem to understand. Finland has spent the last century with an 8-foot alcoholic grizzly bear with narcissistic personality disorder as a next-door neighbor. Unlike many of the bear’s other neighbors, they actually beat it back. They always knew it was possible, so they made sure it would always be as possible as they possibly could.

[@Luiki-o2v]

Russia gave us independence .It can also take it away.

[@londop.a.3048]

Is that how you think in St. Petersburg? when Finland became independent, Russia didn't even exist then

[@stischer47]

I belive the Russians learned that wasn't true in 1939. Apparently you are ignorant of history, but most Russian bots are.

[@santeriberg8129]

They can try. They would fail.

[@Rodzyniastyyyy]

All Russia can do right now is smear itself with it's own shit, nothing more.

[@iam5085]

Lol, Russia can do shit right now, thanks to NATO we can forget that backwater to the east from Finland.

[@cestlextase]

wheres the video about why should the usa even be allowed to have political say in europe?

[@stischer47]

Why should Russia?

[@aidan883]

USA freed Europe from Fascism

[@goldbullet50]

@@stischer47 Because Russia is in Europe? USA is a malevolent superpower other side of the world, that has had occupation forces in Europe since 1943.

[@smartguy360]

@@goldbullet50 maybe you should ask why the former Warsaw pact countries ran to NATO as fast as they could, Russia is the problem nobody wants to be occupied by them again

[@goldbullet50]

@@smartguy360 That's because the NATO bloc offered them no alternatives, because they were working to maintain the American world order. Now we are paying the price for being their useful idiots and never ending the cold war in Europe, as opposed to just solidifying the position of its winner.