Why Kurt’s Card Care Is Ruining My Hobby & (Maybe) Yours

[@SportsCardsLive]

Hey Theo, thanks for watching my interview with Kurt and providing your thoughts and insight. You made several great points that are important for people to consider as we all move forward in the hobby. Informing the public is the most important thing so thank you for your efforts, which along with mine and those of others, will be a positive thing.

[@SportsCardsLive]

And new subscriber (#900) here too! 👊

[@ClementeCollector]

100%…. Thanks for watching and listening to my thoughts! Much appreciated! 😀

[@ClementeCollector]

@@SportsCardsLive #900, hopefully I’ll see you at a National one day, so I can call you Mr. 900, lol! Thanks for the sub! 👊🏻

[@philmark2296]

why didnt you ask him about the lifting of autos. And how he mentioned he experiments with all kinds of different things. All you did was help plug his product. Did you get anything out of it?

[@iamrickrock]

PSA is a scam all on its own, thats the real issue in this hobby. If you cannot determine if the card has been cleaned then what's the difference? Its kind of like free will, we actually most likely do not have free will but it doesnt matter because we all think we do and act accordingly. Its the same concept. If a card is brought back closer to its original condition without any changes to the card then who cares?

[@ClementeCollector]

The issue would be, if the staining comes back over time or the cleaning product starts separating the card in the slab over time. Some feel this won’t happen, but we don’t know what’s in it. But I understand your perspective and I appreciate you listening to my opinion!

[@kmwilson1979]

This! As for OP, check out Kurt's vids. He has one of one of his original cards he cleaned years ago and still perfect.

[@neptunevinyl]

I agree. The cards aren't being altered. I'm not sure why anyone would be bothered but the idea of soaking a card to remove surface dirt/stains. If noby can tell that the card has been cleaned, then why would anyone care that the card has been cleaned? As far as potentially damaging the card years down the line, I'm not sure this should concern anyone. Conservators have been using these same liquids to restore historical documents, photos and paintings for decades now. This is a standard process for museums to clean historical documents. I wonder if the people who dont approve of this process would feel the same way about wiping the surface of a card with distilled water? If they accidentally got a card dirty while handling it, would they just accept it and live with the stain? Or would they use a micro fiber cloth and a minimal amount of water to wipe the dirt off the front of the card? Because if they're being honest, that would be "restoration". So I hope they're just leave the stain/dirt on the card.

[@signsofthepastime]

Where there’s money involved people will turn a blind eye. The only people I talk to that have issues with this are collectors. We’re the ones who are in it for the cards, not the quick profits. I don’t mind a little dirt & grime on my cards personally. I think I need to start licking them like pepino man to make sure they haven’t been messed with though. I appreciate you sharing this Theo

[@ClementeCollector]

Haha, lick test! I might train a dog to sniff them! Haha! The end collector is definitely the person left to deal with it. Thanks for watching brother!

[@signsofthepastime]

@@ClementeCollector 😆 You might see a dealer at the National selling card sniffing dogs lol

[@ClementeCollector]

@@signsofthepastime LOL

[@corymcewen5943]

If you paint a card or trim a card yeah, different story. I had a 90 Score Will Clark autograph card. I had a sale sticker on the penny sleeve on the card, I wrote $10 in ball point on the sticker. It made an indention on the card plain as day $10. I took a q tip, glasses cleaner, rubbed it on in a circle on both sides of the card, put the card on a flat surface with a penny sleeve on top, took my finger and gently in a circle rubbed round and round on both sides. That $10 indention mark was gone after the solution dried. Card looks as it should have. I see zero wrong with restoring a card as it's NOT altering the card.

[@The_Cincinnati_Kid]

I must say, this situation has given me pause about buying vintage cards. The not knowing if it has been cleaned is extremely troublesome. Appreciate you putting this video out!

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks man, I agree!

[@mindcycle_cards]

Agree with your thoughts here. To me it seems most "collectors" who side with Kurt do so because they have something to gain. Cleaning then flipping cards for profit seems to be the most prevalent reason. However, it you put them in front of two cards they want for their actual PC with the same grade, same price, one a legit grade with no cleaning done and another that was heavily worked on.. I bet I know which they'd choose 99% of the time.

[@ClementeCollector]

Exactly! I’ve yet to see a someone I’m subscribed to, say- “here is my childhood collection, I’m going to clean these so I enjoy them more” OR “I wanted a Nolan Ryan rookie in a 4, but can only afford a 2, so I’ll clean it and resubmit it”…… but maybe I’m watching the wrong channels?

[@neptunevinyl]

But if you put both cards in front of them, same price and same grade, one with no cleaning and the other was cleaned but you didn't know which was which.......whats the problem? I agree with your theory about people siding with Kurt have something to gain but I think the same theory applies to collectors but just on the opposite end. If you have a nice collection of graded cards from the 50's & 60's, those cards are generally stable in their value. But that value cam begin to drop as the population of graded cards grows. I think many collectors tell themselves that they dont want a card that has been cleaned but in reality I think they dont want more and more higher graded cards adding to the population.

[@andrewnull2594]

Unless you open the pack and then send it off to a grading company then there is always a chance it’s been tampered with. This is even before Kurt’s Card Care came into the market. He just perfected and shared the process with the masses.

[@ClementeCollector]

Yes all true. And he made it easier to buy. Before you would look to message boards and create solutions yourself. In turn, the light he shined, showed ppl, you can improve the grade and in turn your cards worth more money. We still don’t know what is in the solution and if his solution has long term impact. Thanks for watching!

[@juanolvera36]

You made a very good point: not everyone has the same skills and expertise as Kurt. If anything, Kurt should let us know what's in his products, just for the sake of transparency, but I believe we're looking at the future of the hobby right here. I mean, card cleaning has been there for decades, Kurt just made it public and he's showing people how to properly do it. Comic books get cleaned and pressed every day without being considered altered or restored, even the grading companies offer that service, so I think that as soon as it's proved that these products do not damage the cards, card cleaning will become a standard. Many people say they're afraid of what this products could do to their cards in the long run, but there's a lot of cards already rotting inside their slabs due to sun fading and oxidation bc PSA doesn't even bother about using good materials, and suddenly they are so concerned about what could happen to the cards they grade in the future? C'mon that's just hypocrisy at its finest. Also, Kurt just showed a card he cleaned 3 years ago and it's still flawless, so honestly I just don't think his products will damage the cards. Imo most people are upset just bc their 10s will not be so special anymore.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! I think if it gets accepted, it will probably happen in modern first and vintage would take awhile. I hope your right, that there are no long term affects. But like you said- he really should disclose what indigents he is using. Time will tell, but I appreciate the response and the fact you watched and listened to my opinion! Take care!

[@Lennoxroadpoe]

You could always buy a PSA 1 ran over by a truck version of any card you want

[@ThriftShopHustler]

Solution is altering, its that simple. Just like the coin business, its call "Cleaned" in the coin world.

[@ClementeCollector]

Yeah I wish it was that simple in the cards space! Thanks for giving me your perspective from the coin world!

[@SwheatCents]

It's only labeled cleaned if they can tell. If the grading companies "clean" it they call it restoration and it's all fine and dandy.

[@coltenhoots9086]

I definitely agree with your take Theo! It’s more of a morality thing for me than anything. I like the fact that vintage cards have a story behind them and have flaws because it shows characters and you wonder where that card has been over the years. I feel like Kurt’s card care is truly altering the cards and it’s kind of like cheating if PSA allegedly can’t detect it. I would compare it to cheating on a test in school. “Well the teacher didn’t see me cheat so it must be okay right?” Just a moral dilemma to me.

[@ClementeCollector]

I definitely like the analogy! Yes it doesn’t feel right, and I hope the collectors speak out more about it. It makes me question cards a lot more now, before I buy them!

[@Dodgertown_76_Fungo]

Great perspective and deep thaughts about this unfortunate money grab. I herd stories of stains coming back and color bleaching from soaking. In Kurt's demonstration you can see the change of color of the liquid. There is no way you are telling me that is all dirt. IThat is color Loss. I saw a 59 Topps yellow card soaked when driy it was not as vibrant. How many times can you clean a card? How many people keep the same card? Which will hurt raw card market. Brings up a another question what is exactly chromium? It seems to me it is some type of plastic so my thinking is when you put alcohol, witch hazel, or any other chemical it dries the oil in the plastic making it brittle or messes with the chemistry making it sticky or melt. Example look at old cd's time breaks them down. Chemicals prematurely killing the plastic. In time that will cause separation of the chromium and the cardboard. In which I always questioned the longevity of modern cards. Plastic always breaks down. If there is chemicals in Kurt's it is only going to speed up the process or he is selling expensive water. You're right PSA has made our habby a no choice. Maybe if Kurt was a good guy and worked with a chemist to add an ultraviolet chemical that can be seen with a black light. Instead of being just a garage chemist. Then the grading companies could verify whats been washed. Given the hobby back a choise.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks for your thoughts! You bring up a great point about the color change of the card. I agree with that and never thought about your point of the liquid not only having dirt in it. Great idea about the ultraviolet addition to the liquid. I don’t think they would ever do that, but it’s a good thought. Yeah these modern cards, I’m not sure how they will hold up long term, interesting take. Also, as you said- what happens when a vintage card gets soaked multiple times over multiple years? Thanks for watching and the comments!

[@BobBoozle]

Great points. You point out ways in which Kurt McBooberson contradicts himself. I wonder if we are taking too much of what he brags about at face value. PSA does have that N7 Evidence of Cleaning non-grading definition. Someone should invite Nat Turner on their show and ask him some actual grading questions like about how many cards they reject based on N7.

[@ClementeCollector]

Exactly! Can’t be many if the card kits are as popular as we are being told they are. My concern is PSA isn’t attempting to look into this and will never look into it.

[@51ringside3]

The key question us whether soaking that card alters the card on a biochemical level and if so what does that “treatment” do to the long term longevity of the card. Does it weaken the card over time and it make it more likely to damage/disintegrate?

[@ClementeCollector]

I agree. And no one knows for sure. So I’d prefer PSA to keep cracking down on it, to deter. Thanks for watching!

[@bennybreaks702]

Great video and discussion. This is why I used to collect coins. If something is altered, it was labeled as such. The grading companies and detect anything. For some reason, PSA, BGS, SGC are turning a blind eye to the subject like Selig did to roids in the 90s.

[@ClementeCollector]

It sure feels that way! Thanks for the comment and watching!

[@juhosevic]

Very well put. I also consider this type of cleaning altering as well. In the luxury vintage watch business polishing diminishes value but very detectable. For modern watches, it’s somewhat accepted for show off the “shininess”. My hope is that some 3rd party chemist is able to find a cheap and effective way to detect certain cleaning agents and solvents that were put on cards. This would almost force grading companies to use this within grading. I would buy and use such a tool which would solve cards that were cracked. Until then… I just pray the cards I buy are unaltered. I feel obliged to buy lower graded cards with stains.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks for the info on watches! Very interesting, but cool! I agree, I hope there is a way to detect this in the near future! Thanks for watching and the comment!

[@matthewgreeley3099]

Obviously you know soaking isnt new right? It's been around for a VERY long time. I have never done it but I 100% know people have been doing it for 30+ years. So are you done buying cards now because it's being advertised more? I will agree this is a very sensitive subject. The arguement that its altering vs restoring is tough. I can see both sides to a point. I for sure can see the arguement for color adding and trimming. It's just sorta weird that cars, old documents, books, paintings, antiques, etc can all get professionally cleaned and restored with no blink of an eye but a piece of cardboard cant?! No clue what the right answer is. I am curious if there are any long term effects? Great video and discussion. Thanks

[@ClementeCollector]

I agree, it’s been around. But it definitely feels way more mainstream and rampant now. When you can go online and order a kit and watch 1,000 of videos to get techniques. Then you see the person turn a 4 to a 6. Money signs go off for the flippers. It’s like saying- crimes have been going on forever, so no need to try to stop them or make laws to make it more safe. The restored books and comics seem to all have that label and it’s noticeable to the experts. I don’t think I’ve heard that you can restore a book and comic and trick the experts/graders, that it’s original m. But maybe I’m wrong, I’m not in those arenas. I respect your thoughts and I appreciate you listening to mine! Thanks man!

[@markmaestas1129]

Cars, old documents, books, paintings, antiques, etc can be restored, but collectors want to know if they have been restored. Selling any of those restored items as "original" when it has been restored is unacceptable to collectors of those items.

[@johnwayne9828]

You definitely just got into the hobby during covid.

[@matthewgreeley3099]

@@johnwayne9828 who's that?

[@vintagesportscards8265]

What happens if the stain slowly starts coming back in 10 years. Or the card separates after it’s slabbed.

[@ClementeCollector]

💯… something I think a lot of us are worried about! Thanks for watching!

[@DaveDurango]

I'm pro KCC, but this is def a concern.

[@lacoleccionperfecto]

Its established that PSA does not care about altered cards. The bright side is there's a market for a grading company that does care. It's only a matter of time before a grading company (currently exiting or not) emerges that can detect altered cards.

[@ClementeCollector]

Definitely an interesting point. Too bad SGC could have been that, but now they are owned by the same company. Thanks for the comment and watching!

[@pittsburghfan66]

Great analysis - certainly the most compelling arguments against cleaning that I've heard. Specifically, the fact that we don't know the long term effects of cleaning, but frankly we don't know the long term effects of being encased in slabs either. One of the most concerning facts is that the grading companies don't seem to want to research how to tell when a card has been cleaned. There has to be ways to identify this with all the technology available today. Thanks for your points.

[@ClementeCollector]

Yeah, if they have the policy/standards, it feels empty if they aren’t looking for it. Thanks for the kind words about the video- much appreciated!

[@thewolfshirtguy]

Your last point was bang on, just wait until people start cheeping out on kurts juice and think they can make their own. I think no matter what, over time, the worked over cards will come to light. Over the years and seasons of hot and cold, being shuffled along to different card shows and sent through the mail, the juice will start drying out, and the effects of what if fixed or was holding together will start showing. If you kept it climate controlled you would probably be okay, but that's not what is going to happen to 90% of these cards lol... 90% of people who made money during the gold rush, were the ones selling shovels 🤣🤣🤣

[@ClementeCollector]

Love the analogy at the end, lol! Yeah, there a lot of variables that we don’t know yet, and won’t know until it’s too late. You also have to wonder when someone keeps working the same card multiple times, spread over different years. It seems that could really ruin some great cards and that just sucks for the history aspect.

[@thewolfshirtguy]

@@ClementeCollector yeepppp, exactly. Didn't even think about a card being worked over multiple time lolll. Maybe... just maybe, collectors who have awesome cards that know they are not worth grading, will eventually have really gradable cards in the end lol. Hold onto those cheap raw cards people lol. Unfortunately when these cards start showing their true colors, there will be a lot of people holding the bag... and kurtle will end up calling Sal

[@brinks554]

I am curious if vintage raw cards would pass the smell test? Would Kurts Card care solution remove the smell of the old vintage cards if soaked?

[@ClementeCollector]

I have no idea? We would have to ask someone that uses it. Also ask them if they feel, it could be detected. But Kurt didn’t think so. Thanks for watching!

[@brinks554]

@@ClementeCollector Maybe ask Kurt for a free sample and do a test run? Could be a popular video to do.

[@vintagecollector5340]

@@brinks554 This is what I suggested. If nobody is providing any answers, then test the product yourself.

[@jpacrylicstudio145]

Do you like spending money on a pack of cards and the cards are damaged in the process of printing, packaging, or shipping? If there is no reversal of a correction or damage in the future due to soaking, then what will you think about it in the future? Damaged cards have been sold in packs since cards were created. Cards have been cleaned since the hobby began. If your card is stained and then graded and slabbed, does the stain get worse inside of the slab? Should it be re-graded to reflect the extra damage it now has? If a grading company gave you a 6 and you resend it and get an 8, which grade is correct? Who decided the grading companies should make ultimate decisions on cards?

[@FootballRob2010]

If you don't want cleaned cards, just buy ungraded stuff then. Problem solved.

[@bradrobinson2841]

I think that the big question is whether or not a grading company is liable if a stain occurs on a card 5, 10, 20 years after it is graded. I would say yes, since the condition of the card is documented with front and back photos when it is graded.

[@markmaestas1129]

Grading card companies aren't liable for the future condition of a card. That's not a realistic expectation.

[@ClementeCollector]

Brad, thanks for watching! I thought about that same question. But if someone leaves a slab in the sun psa doesnt guarantee it, I’m sure. These are way different situations. I honestly don’t know, let’s ask Nat Turner! Haha!

[@sportscardwinterhaven]

the Guarantee assures the accuracy of the grade assigned to any PSA graded card as long as it remains in its tamper-evident holder That's right from psa website

[@MidLifeCards]

Certainly an interesting perspective, and I think you make some good points about our lack of control in the topic. If there are actual chemicals being used, I refuse to believe there is zero residue and that we’re stuck. I believe that it’s possible to detect them….or will be at some point.

[@MidLifeCards]

I do believe, however, that it’s impossible to stop all murders, thefts, assault, etc….but that doesn’t mean we should stop trying to educate people about morality and doing the right thing. Will it ever end, no? But should we try to encourage people make moral decisions? Yes.

[@ClementeCollector]

@@MidLifeCards love these points Graig! And I agree, just because it’s happened already doesn’t mean we can’t save millions of other cards from future altering. I’m tired of the pizza sauce, wouldn’t you clean it off example. As we know, this is beyond that silly example.Thanks man for watching and being an advocate in the space!

[@Bostnfn]

@@ClementeCollector As a chemistry teacher, if there is a chemical involved in the cleaning, there is almost certainly an indicator chemical that will detect whether a certain compound is present. The only problem is that you would have to apply that indicator to the card itself to test it, which defeats the purpose. Maybe you could swab the card and get enough particles up to then test it with the indicator? Very interesting.

[@ClementeCollector]

@@Bostnfn yeah that’s interesting and thanks for sharing your knowledge. PSA graders have like 1 minute on each card, so I doubt they would swab a card and meet it with the indicator. Someone suggested a black light test would work but I’d have to find a card confirmed to be soaked with the solution to try that. Someone also suggested, taking the solution and paying a lab to tell us what’s in it, then go from there, as far as figuring out if it could have long term impact on cardboard.

[@jga59]

What he's done is created one more obstacle, one more thing that collectors have to beware of. Maybe he thinks he's trying to help. But what he's really doing is exploiting the current approach to collecting on the part of those who collect slabs, who see things in terms of grades, and potential economic value. Even if you buy the card and not the grade, you are complicit in this system. Granted, raw cards can be tampered with too. Sometimes I think people look so closely at a card that they're not really seeing it anyway. Anyway, it's a drag that some collectors are buying into this.

[@artz8929]

PSA’s concerns about soaked, cleaned or altered cards are their conditions years in the future. One solution for PSA that could release them of future blame and costs is to label these cards as Authentic and Altered cards, and not grade them from 1 to 10. Some grading card companies are already doing this now. Yes, we’re paying good money to grading companies for our cards, so grading companies should be able to detect questionable cards. If they cannot detect them, kudos to Kurt and the card cleaners today. In the world of antiques and collectibles, old paintings and ‘ what have you ‘ are routinely cleaned and/restored preferably by pros. And Sotheby’s and Christie’s have been auctioning and selling them for years. They’re probably also selling cleaned and restored sports cards, baseball cards and memorabilia. PSA may possibly loose market share also by the outright banning of cleaned cards, while other grading companies are labeling these cards Authentic and/or Altered cards.

[@markmaestas1129]

I agree with you. This is potentially a huge problem for the hobby. If in the future cards start developing stains from these chemicals, it could totally derail the hobby. Imagine if valuable cards that have been graded start developing stains in a few years from these methods. Will collectors spend hundreds or thousands on cards that might be compromised? The answer is no. The integrity of the card market will be irreparably harmed. Who is going to trust that high grade vintage cards haven't been altered? Who's going to spend thousands or tens of thousands on high grade Mantle, Clemente, Aaron, etc. rookie cards when they might develop stains or other problems? This is bad for the hobby. You have to be short sighted or just in it to make a fast buck to think otherwise.

[@ClementeCollector]

You totally hit the nail on the head! Thanks for watching and taking time to comment!

[@legendsofthedugout4899]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Theo. I would agree with you on a lot of the points you made.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks Dave, I mean Don! Haha! Appreciate you watching! 😃

[@dk_kardboard]

Well done, Theo. Bold stand made with integrity.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks Doug!

[@jacebronson2305]

His magic juice is mainly distilled water and here’s the deal I’ve known about soaking cards in distilled water since the 80s. Also distilled water will do the exact same thing as Kurt’s spray, imo the spray has something in it so that he has something to sell, pretty hard to justify selling only water for $60 for a few oz. Kurt can’t admit that then he looses his grift. Also means no one will ever be able to detect it and it also means nothing to worry about because soaking cards in distilled water has been done for decades, it just no one was going around and bragging about it on KZbin. Kurt didn’t invent soaking cards, and the magic happens from the water not whatever is making it smell (my guess is witch hazel) Also I’m sure Kurt enjoys all the free publicity he’s got in the last few days, he’s probably selling more thanks to all the videos than ever before.

[@ClementeCollector]

I’ve heard some other people say similar- Kurt’s spray is probably not much of anything. Hence why he wouldn’t want to tell ppl the ingredients. I do understand, he’s not the first person to do it, but I do think him being so open about it, is making it more mainstream and in turn, more cards are getting soaked. I personally don’t like it, and would prefer to buy cards not messed with. As far as long term impact of his spray, I can see your and other points on the history of it. I think the people using it are mainly resellers, not doing it for there PC. Thanks for the thoughts and watching!

[@jacebronson2305]

@@ClementeCollector Yeah and as soon as Geoff speaks comments about it any moment now on his videos thousands of more people are going to know about it. There’s a whole bunch of things in life I’d like to put back into their respective boxes. But once you cross the line there’s no coming back, I guarantee way more people will know about card restoration by the end of this week than have ever known about it. At this point assume card restoration is going to explode. Also assume low grade vintage cards and slightly damaged newer card values also to explode, as people buy them up to fix and flip like an old house or car.

[@tartuffethespry]

I fall into the pro-Kurt camp. Cleaning is a big part of the comic book hobby as well as fine art collecting. Also, the "card spray" is almost certainly mostly distilled water. So you are just temporarily putting water molecules in between the paper fibers, and then pulling dirt and grime as you press out the water. No chemical or mechanical change to the cardboard occurs

[@ClementeCollector]

Hey, I think anytime people disagree, having conversation and hearing each other sides is key. I appreciate your take on it. So do comic books get cleaned with a spray or wax and get graded normal (without a restoration label)? I’m not sure, so I’m asking for my own information. The point about the spray being water is interesting because he says- there’s a warning label not to consume, so I’m not sure if that’s to throw copy cats off or what. Thanks for the conversation!

[@DaveDurango]

@@ClementeCollector There may be a small bit of alcohol in the water. But even if there isn't, I think any type of product labeled as cleaning needs a warning, even if just water. I could be wrong.

[@bobbywilliams5656]

@@ClementeCollector Comics get heated and pressed to remove wrinkles. There is no way to detect it.

[@MrJmangini]

The paradox is this. Collectors always get screwed even though there would be no hobby without us.

[@TheCardHunter]

One man’s treasure is another man’s trash. Really good to see your healthy.

[@ClementeCollector]

💯💯💯 Thanks for watching John!

[@modofatak]

lol this “man” is the most passive-aggressive person I’ve ever heard speak

[@ClementeCollector]

No comment 😜

[@royakard8536]

Alright, love your channel! I came back to the hobby over a year ago, and started learning and listening to many. It has been a blessing truely.. I'm not of the mind that people who are buying a product cannot influence it.. Bud light proved that.. If there was a legit movement by people with weight in the hobby AGAINST grading cards until this is fixed.. It would be fixed quickly. The hobby holds so much authority on these companies now... The hobby needs to go back to the people's hands.

[@ClementeCollector]

I really appreciate the kind words, they mean so much! The issue is ppl are getting brainwashed that cleaning is fine and safe. And the grading money is in modern, so I’m not so sure there any many of them that feel this way. But I agree, we need to stand up and call it out, not act like it’s not happening!

[@rossmoniz5032]

In coins cleaned is a thing that goes on the label but much different but still very similar to this conversation

[@ClementeCollector]

Yes, I wish that was how it was in cards. I wouldn’t buy the cleaned cards and I think it would deter ppl doing it.

[@wesleyhodge9457]

I hear your opinions and most definitely respect your take! I am one of those people who falls somewhere in the middle and can see it from either point of view to be honest. Soaking, corner or edge repair can be construed as “altering”, but using a cloth and some card spray and polish to wipe down the surface or some painters tape to clean fuzz off the edges is okay. What about the guys who send packs, boxes or cases of to the company to have them CT Scanned so they can find the big hits? I have a much bigger issue with those guys or the shady ass breaker’s personally.

[@butcheoreo8034]

I thought counterfeit cards would be the downfall of cards one day as technology increased. Then grading came along and we all felt more secure in buying with the thought they could detect counterfeits. The cleaning especially the soaking has really put the thought of vintage cards that look really nice are just cleaned/soaked.. instead of wow that card looks really nice it must have been taken care of/stored and survived all these years. Unfortunately with soaking and the non ability of graders to identify this being done has hurt imo the vintage hobby unfortunately, I truly wish it didn't it is reality. Thanks for your show today I enjoyed your honesty.

[@ClementeCollector]

Great point and I agree. When I see a great looking vintage card now, I wonder if something was done to it, even when graded. Not a great feeling! I wish PSA, would do what they said, and not allow soaked cards/ polished- it’s on them to figure out how to do that, not me and you.

[@EYESwide_OO_1149]

How can you say that grading companies helped secure the hobby when these grading systems/guidelines are so subjective? You can crack a slab and send it right back and get 1-3 grades higher. Grading is a gimmick.

[@jon-eriksuermann9844]

I’m in the buy the card not the grade group. I submitted to SGC last week a 1952 bowman Stan Musial and 1950 bowman Bob Feller. Both of them have creases in the card. I doubt they went though this process because the creases are there. My 1948 Bowman Stan Musial has tape on the front. Sure my cards aren’t worth as much, but I own the cards though they are low grade, low eye appeal, etc.

[@ClementeCollector]

I agree, buy the card. But I like to buy cards that don’t have creases and wrinkles if I’m able to. So am I to stop doing that because of the doubt over cleaning and only buy low grade? It’s not a great feeling to think, we can spend the same for a cleaned 55 Clemente sgc 3, as a never touched 55 Clemente sgc 3. Thanks for watching!

[@jon-eriksuermann9844]

@@ClementeCollector I was just speaking for myself. I got your anger, for sure. I’ve been watching the KZbin for a few years now, and the “eye appeal” narrative is a bit more recent. At first it was grade this and grade that. Then prices soared so grades cost much more. Eye appeal became a thing so lower grades wouldn’t have a negative connotation. Subsequently the prices for high eye appeal went up. “Cleaning” and “restoring” cards is only going to become more prevelant when higher grades is not the only goal. It sucks.

[@redfanrod]

Some have mentioned that PSA should be smarter and designate cards as "Authentic / Altered" in lieu of removing the card (like Kurt's) from their database. There is a place for doctored cards in the hobby. It has always been buyer beware. No different than counterfit copies of cards (fake Jordan rookies) in the past.

[@mathbowler2782]

Thank you for talking about this. I’m not entirely knowledgeable about card cleaning, but I agree with all of your points. Thank you for the education.

[@ClementeCollector]

Cool to fill you in on some things and give you my opinion! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@returntocollecting]

I agree, his products not only alter, but potentially damage cards (we don't know the long term effects of his solution). Its all about the profits! Kurt makes money, flippers make more money, grading companies make more money; all while we get burned. The golden rule in full effect... he who has the gold makes the rules. Maybe earlier slabbed cards (pre-Kurts) will become more valuable over time?? Either way, I agree that this is a big problem for collectors.

[@ClementeCollector]

Yeah, would hate to see us having to shop for old slabs because of this. While our current collections are questionable. Flippers definitely have the most to gain with little cost. Thanks Darren!

[@scottmaz2428]

I completely agree with you, Well done

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks Scott!!!

[@OlSargeCollects]

Yeah I don’t want someone cleaning a card only because we don’t yet know the long term effects the cleaning solution will have on the card. I’ve soaked tobacco cards out of scrapbook pages, but those cards were soaked with water only. And I didn’t send them in for grading. They are still in my collection years later. I think if we can establish a date that Kurt’s card care products were introduced to the public then I would start paying closer attention to grading dates and not buy a card after the date Kurt’s Card Care products started being used.

[@ClementeCollector]

Yeah, that’s unfortunately how a lot of collectors feel. Which could be bad for new label card prices one day. It sucks this is happening and so many don’t have an issue with it. Thanks for the info and watching!

[@bobbywilliams5656]

For all you know, Kurt's card care is just distilled water as well. So it's OK for you, but not for Kurt?

[@OlSargeCollects]

@@bobbywilliams5656 hi Bobby, great question. We honestly don’t know what’s in Kurt’s solutions, so if it’s just water then I have no problem with it. However, if theres any other chemicals in his solution then there could be long term effects on the cards that we haven’t discovered yet. It would be fair to the hobby if Kurt let everyone know what chemicals, if any, are in his solutions. But understandably he won’t do that because then people can make the solution themselves and he goes out of business. So on one hand he keeps everyone in the hobby cautious and skeptical or he allows everyone the capability of making their own solution. It’s a lose lose situation. I’m not saying that using distilled water is bad. I’m saying that if there are chemicals there could be long term effects we don’t yet know about.

[@dynastysportscollection]

Interesting points. You're well in your right to state an opinion. IMHO, I have no issues with restoring a card. As long as the card isn't "Fake" (like some scumbags on specific selling platforms do) then the restored card is great to have in my collection. I don't want to display a card that has an awful crease on it. Your points are well explained and I get your side but I fall into the pro-Kurt camp. I certainly like clean, well cared for non fake cards.

[@ClementeCollector]

I appreciate you listening to my side. I hear you and respect your opinion. Thanks for watching! 👊🏻

[@s.macintosh-jc9rf]

Hi there, Thank you very much for this video. I never have had any interaction with Kurt’s products but it is not for me. Pure and simple it’s altering the cards. But no one is getting hurt, except financially maybe. Best Wishes, Peter

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks Peter, I appreciate the kind words and since I made the video PSA has taken a stand on this. I hope more ppl speak out about it. Have a great day!

[@PastorKensCurveballs]

Thank you for your take and I agree 100% with you.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks for watching brother! 👊🏻

[@Mrtherealcleveland]

What pisses me off is as a collector, why am I getting encased flawless cards that are dirty/dinged up? Pisses me off much more that such “high quality” and expensive products come damaged. Soaking is its own deal but to get pissed off about touch ups is ridiculous, dirty/damaged cards will always be available

[@Mrtherealcleveland]

That being said it’s a very good point that outside of Kurt, the people trying to clean/restore/alter cards don’t have the same level of experience as him so who knows how it’ll turn out. I get people feel this to be a scam but you could say the same about a two thousand dollar case that comes with damaged cards.

[@steelerscollector]

Great point Theo I wouldn’t be surprised if Kurt is looking long term into making the grading companys somehow buy into his product to then provide the cleaning and restoration for a fee similar to what comic grading companies do and then label them appropriately.

[@ClementeCollector]

It’s a possible angle. Doing someone’s else card can be a pretty big liability though- “ you screwed it up, I want the card value back.” But I could see that more on modern shiny cards. Polish the front, wipe it off, then grade it a 10, lol. Thanks for the comment!

[@EYESwide_OO_1149]

Did you know that at least SOME grading companies have a “card cleaning service” that they offer to you before your card is submitted for grading? Let’s open up that discussion, shall we?

[@Benntta]

i totally agree awesome point

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks man! 👊🏻

[@realmerc8373]

Before Kurt's card care there's been other guys who have been cleaning it with other ingredients that is one KZbinr who cleans it with furniture polish

[@robstarsports]

I like to look for the best survivor of a card that I can afford, now it's the case that I could unknowingly be purchasing a restored example, simply not cool.

[@ClementeCollector]

Yeah, exactly. It really takes some of the fun out of the hobby!

[@JoeKyser]

Jeff ruined the hobby I love. Kurt pooped all over it

[@ClementeCollector]

🤣 Thanks for watching!

[@JoeKyser]

Stop buying. cards and put Kurt out of business!

[@TheBargainBoxer]

A lot of the kids are into Kurt Kard Alterations……it’s the dinosaurs like us who oppose the vasoline on cards. When us dinosaurs are gone, then it will be as acceptable as it is with comics. If we are going to allow smearing crap on our cards, then let’s allow everything, like trimming. Why not? Wild Wild West!!!!!

[@ClementeCollector]

Haha, you always crack me up in comments! Yeah it’s a scary world right now, more than ever!

[@TheBargainBoxer]

@@ClementeCollector Sorry for speaking the truth…..

[@bobo44donemilking51]

I love Kurt's card care ,when you sell your car do you clean it before you sell it 🤔

[@socialoutkast5657]

Aside from the moral and ethical issues here my main issue is that I don't know what ingredients are in the product. I would like to see one of the self proclaimed "gatekeepers" of the hobby submit kurt's juice to a Chemist to find out what is in it and if any of these ingredients have the potential to harm cards long term.If Kurt is as open and honest as he claims to be then he should have no objection to this.

[@ClementeCollector]

It’s a great point and great idea! Thanks for checking in and sharing!

[@bobbywilliams5656]

I think the bottom line is that the chemical is basically just distilled water. That would let the cat out of the bag for the extreme markup of the product.

[@LegendsNeverDieCollection]

I am….unconcerned.

[@ClementeCollector]

Haha, your ungraded collection is safe? It’s a good point, most people who soak cards, will grade before selling.

[@LegendsNeverDieCollection]

In my opinion, yes- because I collect low grade ungraded. The whole idea of using this stuff is to improve condition for a higher grade or higher value. Mine are lower grade, and lower value than their higher grade and higher value counterparts of the same card. Sure, I don’t want “altered” cards in my collection, like trimmed or colored- but I go by what my eyes tell me looks good for eye appeal. I’m HORRIBLE at grading or even describing condition, because I just know I like the look or not (which is on the lower end of the spectrum). The odds of the stuff I like being affected by this are pretty slim, and while I absolutely DO NOT condone it, I wouldn’t even know if someone did it to a 1957 Nellie Fox that might at best grade a 3 or 4. And that’s the most energy I’ll give to it, because I thought you might enjoy/be interested in my answer 🤪😉😘

[@zacharyTCG]

i think honestly if ur a real collector who fing cares if you want your cards looking better condition people like “you” who are money hungry some people want expensive cards but can’t afford them and it gives the people options to buy expensive cards and restore them for our personal collections

[@mrunlimited3]

This industry is full of hypocrisy

[@LLUEVE]

Rip your own cards. Grade them. Problem solved. Buy cards that were graded prior to Kurt’s start. (Just remember, old school guys have been using furniture polish since the 70’s) Am I wrong?

[@fastbreaksbreakfast]

Great take, Theo. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on this topic. Cheers!

[@ClementeCollector]

😀Thanks brother!

[@Michael_Burrier]

Here's something no one is thinking about. The only way to test for foreign substances on a card is mass spectrometry to be 100% honest and who's going to damage a card to do that type of test?

[@bobo44donemilking51]

In the comic book world its encouraged to be clean

[@ClementeCollector]

Okay, but I’ve heard they get labeled restored. If not please explain. Is there cleaning that gets a normal grade, then cleaning that gets a restored label? I’m not in that space so wasn’t sure.

[@DaveDurango]

@@ClementeCollector Grading company's will heat press your comics to get wrinkles out for a fee and they do not put it on the label. it's very common.

[@ClementeCollector]

@@DaveDurango thanks for the info

[@giancarloleoni397]

If I can resell for more, then yes

[@deadlyredly]

great podcast and great points. Im not for Kurts card care or against it, I just want the cleaner higher graded card that the so called "professionals" deem authentic and unaltered. Do you love the cards on your wall behind you even though you think a few may have been cleaned? Im sure when you look at them they make you happy,,,,, so just keep looking at them, they look great even if they're cleaned.

[@ClementeCollector]

I do love them! I just hope, they don’t change in 10-20 years because they were cleaned. Thanks for watching and the comment! 👊🏻

[@PennySleeveSteve]

So if I drop bbq sauce on a card you would rather have it with the bbq sauce on it rather than clean it of with a napkin…wild. Or a 69 Camaro, if I go outside and wipe the the dirt off of it then it’s considered an altered car..also wild to me

[@ClementeCollector]

@@PennySleeveSteve I don’t remember saying, you can’t wipe a card with a napkin or cloth. I believe I said- we shouldn’t be soaking and spraying cards with a solution- we don’t know the long term impacts. Most of the people using the solution, are doing it for resale, imo. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@Trilogysworld]

I want panini to have better quality control and stop selling us all these cards with defects at least improve.

[@ClementeCollector]

I think you’re right about that, modern cards shouldn’t have all the defects they do, especially for what the customer has to pay!

[@happyhamster1411]

The thing is you don’t know. I’m guessing this has been going on for a long time and only came to light because he made a channel dedicated to it. They’ve been trimming cards for decades.

[@basedblueboy8770]

The very early certs are still safe

[@blixcards]

Don't overthink it and let it ruin the hobby and collection you have and love. Just like cheating in sports, card altering has always been around and always will be. It's inevitable. We pay the pros at SGC to be pros and they know the red flags to look for, especially in vintage. Two graders at least usually look at each card also from what I'm told. Those grades are official, bro. Once that slab and flip are in place, it's official. Only other option would be just to buy all "A"'s from now on and call it even. I don't mean that negatively at all, I mean that from the heart. If you truly are convinced they are all altered, it's a legit and extremely affordable option. Another thing about SGC is when they do make mistakes, (we are all human after all) they own it publicly. I personally am not even convinced it does anything but damage cards. I watch the videos out of curiosity and I'm nowhere near sold. I don't see any real scratch removal even. Pressing down corners, straws, soaking, meh. It's all going on forever and SGC sees it, we're good. I imagine they take note of cards smelling like Nu Finish as well haha! For the record, I don't truly care much either way about Kurt's Card crap but I'd lean against it. Just for the honesty aspect of it all. I believe in a micro fiber cloth and my breath. I suggest practicing the heavy breathing method alone, however haha... But it truly even does work on old Topps Chrome "grime". But that's not doctoring, that's simply removing fingerprints and/or oxidation. Varnish, essentially. But that's also exclusively on modern-ultra modern as well! I personally think Kurt's Kard does more damage to cards than good and honestly believe it's 100% a waste of money. But now he has a cult following and it's made headlines. I'm willing to bet it's nothing more than store bought product, R/O water at best and just repackaged with a sticker-making label using bulk spray bottles, lines of yards worth of aquarium tubing (straws), and some sort of wax all packaged using wholesale aftermarket spray bottles and jars. My niece has a label maker for her little jewelry side hustle and she prints out her own custom logos, price tags and other stickers. She's 11 years old. I think he's pulled a fast one on everybody and is laughing all the way to Paypal. My honest opinion.

[@ClementeCollector]

Haha, a lot to digest there, but definitely get your points! I do agree, they want you to be open minded but they aren’t. Could the secret recipe be basic water? It’s possible but if he puts dangerous to drink on the bottle, I think it has chemicals in it. I’m not gonna let it ruin the hobby I love but it definitely is making me think twice when looking at a card before I buy it. Hopefully this comes to a head and it’s not accepted by grading company’s. Thanks for watching and commenting! 👊🏻

[@blixcards]

​@@ClementeCollector Agreed and you are welcome! I think there is no doubt he's making the stuff at home - or else the powers that be would make him put the "ingredients" on the labels and/or packaging. Could be tap water or snake oil until lab tested. I'm actually surprised nobody has reported him to the FTC. If he wants to be legit, they should have to test it first. There's your transparency. They may even forbid it from being sold at all until it's lab tested. Could be worth looking into.

[@henrys3629]

Kurt's voice went up. "When it's time to change....... " I don't mind cleaning wax so my auto will take and I've remove extra paper to read the back. None of these are hurting anything.

[@ClementeCollector]

haha, thanks for watching Henry and giving your thoughts!

[@hughporter399]

Since all this has come out has there been an increase of lower grade vintage cards being bought and busted out? In vintage cards a whole grade is a big increase in value!

[@ClementeCollector]

@@hughporter399 1 grade does make a huge difference. But how would we know this, people that do that don’t make videos about it. They don’t want you to see the cert number. So it’s impossible to know.

[@Pete-3mr]

This hobby is about filliping now, not many people "collect". I don' agree with soaking but cleaning should be done, I open packs that have panini lint and dust on them. Can't just send them in for grading without cleaning.

[@ClementeCollector]

I think whipping a card off with a micro fiber cloth is perfectly fine. But yes, a lot of the hobby is flipping now, so it impacts how people feel on these topics. Thanks for watching!

[@markmaestas1129]

I think you great underestimate the number of collectors out there. Collectors are the backbone of the hobby and without them it would cease to exist. Flippers can't just flip to other flippers. There has to be collectors there at the end of the day that wants the card for their collection.

[@ACollectorsDream]

Agree completely Theo, thank you for sharing your thoughts. It’s about the money, Kurt sells kits, buyers clean cards for higher grades/ profits, PSA higher grades means more upcharge profits for them. The collectors pay the price.

[@vintagecollector5340]

You don't think they're paying for it, too? PSA is the real winner here.

[@ClementeCollector]

Yes, it really sucks to think some of the cards I bought have been messed with and could have future issues. Thanks for all your work on this topic and videos about it!

[@vintagecollector5340]

A blacklight is all it takes to see alterations. PSA obviously doesn't care that your card was soaked. All that matters is that they're still getting business and making money. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[@ClementeCollector]

Agree about PSA. If that’s the case, I’d love to have someone show that black light test on KZbin, that uses card care solutions. Thanks for watching and the info!

[@stoneyj1a1]

Maybe they can't tell because maybe the solution is water. So what

[@vintagecollector5340]

@@stoneyj1a1 Water alone wouldn't restore a card.

[@vintagecollector5340]

@@ClementeCollector Worse case scenario, buy the product and a blacklight to test it out for yourself? Any alterations of any kind should pick up with a black light. Test it out on a cheap and damaged card.

[@stoneyj1a1]

@@vintagecollector5340 not true. some other guy soaked a Ryne Sandberg rookie on KZbin. he used water. it fixed some defects. i tried it too. it did work to an extent. the drying process is the hard part because the cards can curl.

[@sweet_as_honey]

Absolutely, kurts card care is bad for the hobby. However, he makes money off the greedy, slimy side of the hobby....which means he's doing well

[@ClementeCollector]

Someone said- the guys that sold shovels during the gold rush, made the most money! Haha, I feel that’s fitting! Thanks for watching!

[@dom19945]

Literally couldn’t care less if a card has been cleaned as long as nobody can tell.

[@johnwayne9828]

😂😂😂you definitely jumped into the hobby during covid.

[@dom19945]

@@johnwayne9828 I didn’t and “jumped into the hobby” sounds like I’m part of a cult now. No thanks. I don’t care what anyone else does or thinks.

[@MyerheadsCards]

I enjoyed the video. Great thoughts.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks so much!

[@stoneyj1a1]

Here's the thing: maybe they can't tell because maybe the solution is just water. If a card gets wet from your spit or rain what's the difference? If the card grades good, who cares? Enjoy. Odds are any cards from 60s or earlier has been altered or cleaned in some way. You could "alter" a card by smoothing out the corners with your fingers. Nothing is perfect.

[@ClementeCollector]

Stoney I appreciate the opinion. If its just water, why is there a warning label on the bottle, not to drink? thanks for watching, have a good one!

[@jasonfuller2734]

You could buy one of these cards and the things they “fixed” could come back. Plus the solution could damage the card over time.

[@markmaestas1129]

For the record, I don't want spit or rain on my cards either. And you ask "if the card grades good, who cares?" Most collectors care. That's like saying if you order a hamburger at a restaurant, and the restaurant puts squirrel meat in with the beef and then spits in it...if you can't tell, what's the difference?

[@stoneyj1a1]

@@markmaestas1129 Sometimes people accidentally spit when they talk, like mouthbreathers and such. Or rain could drop on a card. You would never know if the person wiped it off real quick. I'm not eating a card. Its not a health hazard. its a piece of art going on display. if it grades well by a professional, then it should be good.

[@stoneyj1a1]

@@jasonfuller2734 if the card is graded, its graded. its encased. old paper degrades no matter what. tiny bugs eat paper. just enjoy it while you can. nothing is perfect. if i got a 10 on a card i dont give a rip how it got there. Kurt's cleaning products can even the playing field for regular collectors vs the big guys who all probably cheat and scam people out of collections.

[@mookiechillson]

Theo, I think Kurt’s first answer about whether his work is detectible is a dodge. Kurt’s work is detectable and he knows his work is detectable, but he doesn’t want to admit it because it would not be good for business. He explained how he himself can tell a card has been restored before finally landing on “I don’t think so” . And if Kurt can detect it, PSA etc can detect it and label it. And if that happened Kurt’s business might dry up.

[@ClementeCollector]

Very interesting, It’s the only way ppl would stop doing it. I hope PSA/SGC get this stopped, but based on history, it’s not looking good! Thanks for checking in Mookie!

[@bobbywilliams5656]

It's not detectable. Not at all. Because nothing is done.

[@EYESwide_OO_1149]

I would bet that this guy is being endorsed by grading companies. The only legitimate point that he made about his stance against card “restoration” is that he doesn’t know what the long term effects could be, if any. If NOBODY can tell that the card has been “corrected”, what’s the problem? It just doesn’t make sense to be so against something that improves or restores the card to its intended state. If Topps, Panini, or whatever card manufacturer would commit to better and more thorough Quality Control guidelines, there wouldn’t be guys like Kurt out here trying to FIX what SHOULD NOT be broken. Don’t be mad at Kurt. Be mad at Topps/Panini/etc. **Be especially mad at Panini.**

[@jasonalloyd]

If a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound???????????????

[@PurpleTrees007]

If you wash/restore a 1969 mustang it doesn't change anything other than its cleaner. Do you not believe if Kurt owns a card its his and he can do whatever he wants to with it because its his? Nobody has a right to tell other people what they can or can't do with their personal property, right? There are card cleaning vendors at the same card shows as PSA so it's not a hidden activity.

[@mrunlimited3]

Sorry, you’re making a mountain out of mole hill. Calm down

[@travmaster3035]

if the 3rd party authenticator cant tell if it has been soaked, then how the hell can you, especialy after its been encapsulated as a PSA 10, are u gonna take that chance, crack open a meaningful PSA 10 card to try to prove a point that no 1 can pick up ?, do it then everything you are saying i will consider, until then you are just talking out your rear end bro

[@Jatto3131]

Ignorance is bliss. I don’t necessarily agree with Kurt’s Card Care but I think everybody is making way too big of a deal about it. There are a lot of shady things happening in this hobby but the more you focus on it the more you are going to dislike the hobby and be turned away. Just buy what you like and stop focusing on the what ifs….

[@ClementeCollector]

Ignorance is definitely bliss. But as a collector and active buyer, I don't like buying cards that might have been soaked and not know about it. I do realize, alot of ppl are in the camp, "theres nothing we can do about it, lets just ignore it." I just wish the grading companies would do what they claim and figure out testing for a soaked card or one that has been waxed. That would be a huge deterant. Thanks for watching my friend, much appreciated!

[@hart316]

Is Kurt’s Card Care hurting your hobby and mine or PSAs grading inconsistency, fees, and those that are graded tend to devalue raw cards? I say the latter all day! Value in eye of beholder..

[@ClementeCollector]

PSA’s inconsistency in grading is definitely frustrating! I actually made a video about this months ago, I think you’d like it, lol. But thanks for checking in and watching!

[@hart316]

Always great to hear others opinion, but PSA has a strange-hold of cards to some degree. I just want to trade my duplicates to expand my PC for the ones I want, but raw tend to have much less value than graded. But when you get burned on a low grade, only to see someone crack, resub, and get 2 grades higher… UNREAL!!!! Not to mention the $$ in bogus grading of others opinion.. hmm 🤦🏻‍♂️ Perhaps the value of TAG and their AI. Seems much better… time will tell.

[@bobbyburrellvhc2415]

Great video, although I think it's best to pick the fights you know you have a chance of winning. This has been going on for the 35 years I have been in the hobby, Kurt is nothing new, just the guy who went public. You will never know if your cards have been soaked or fixed for the most part. I don't agree with it but you can't fight a ghost. Its great content tho.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks for watching and the kind words about the video. I wish the grading company could detect it but they either don’t want to or can’t. I’m still hearing conflicting information on that topic. But thanks for giving your opinion!

[@thewellnesscafe2920]

"I don't want clean cards" @7:16 mark....... WHO SAYS THAT!!!????? What collector has ever said I want to collect dirty, roughed up, creased soft round corners and lots of dents in my cards. "At least my cards don't have Kurts Card Care cleaning solution on them"........said no collector ever......Cmon Man seriously your making videos complaing about random dudes sitting in there basements improving their collectibles? Wow!!!!!

[@CitizenX367]

I feel bad for being that guy, but the 1000s of people buying Kurt's goo are probably ruining a majority of the cards they are trying to fix... at least I secretly hope so.

[@ClementeCollector]

That’s the other scary thing, is when these great cards get ruined. Tough to think about, thanks for checking in!

[@CitizenX367]

They've made ALL cards suspect now. The first card ever graded was trimmed and the "hobby" turned into something else that day. Eliminate grading and let the interested parties decide the value of a card. General Mangini can judge any disputes.

[@TheCardHunter]

I really enjoyed your insights. I’d love to talk more on this with you. I have mixed feelings. I feel you but logically this toothpaste isn’t going back. Question. And please don’t take this personally, just an example. If your Mother of your kids and love of your life was in a gang bang movie in college, would you want your know? Your card might have been soaked in 1980s. This isn’t new.

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks Ziggy! I get your point about what has been done already and agree, nothing we can do about that. But does that mean we let this get rampant and acceptable? Just because a crime has happened, do we stop policing or making laws? Thanks for checking in!

[@zerozone6666]

People bash for this then I hear the same people saying they use their spit and a cloth to clean. What is the difference lol spit or a water solution. Can argue using spit is worse, I just use a cloth to wipe down but I don’t see the big deal. I don’t think soaking a card can be good long term but who knows. I would never do that. Unless it ruins the card then there’s no issue. I have no sides in this I could care less either way

[@ClementeCollector]

Thanks for checking in. I never said, don't wipe a card with a cloth. All I said is, the issue I have is, because cards get sold and change hands, people aren't just soaking and cleaning there own cards, they are doing everyones cards. Which makes this whole thing complex. Like you said- if you could buy an SGC 4 mantle card not soaked or an SGC 4 mantle card soaked, I'd assume youd buy the not soaked everytime? Unfortunately we have no idea what has happened to the cards, because it can't be detected. But to each there own, thanks for listening and watching!

[@tartuffethespry]

On the bright side there a probably tons of cards in your collections that could get a serious grade bump should you chose to restore them.

[@ClementeCollector]

Fair point, the opposite end of the debate. They won’t be getting cleaned by me, I can tell you that, but I’m sure someone might one day, when I’m not around. Thanks for watching and listening to my opinion l!

[@DansVintageBaseballPC]

I had become a regular viewer of Jeremy over the last year or so, but on Saturday night I unsubscribed and I'm done with him. Giving a microphone to this scam artist Kurt is really unforgivable. There's no "explanation" that's ever going to make it acceptable to soak vintage cards in distilled water or chemicals or whatever this guy uses to "clean" them. Its 100% unacceptable alteration and giving this guy even the time of day is detrimental to the hobby.

[@ClementeCollector]

I agree Dan and commend you for making a stand. I just can’t put my head in the sand and not give my thoughts, that we as collectors need to demand the grading company figure this out, if not more and more vintage cards are gonna get altered. I appreciate you watching!

[@Corridor_Collectiables]

You're talking like Krt's Card Care is the first person to ever alter/clean cards. This has been done for a very long time

[@ClementeCollector]

I don't disagree. But was there a kit created prior, and sold at card shows? Was it mainstream and accepted? The more mainstream this gets, the more cards that will be impacted. But thats just my thoughts, I appreciate you hearing me out and everyone can think how they want!

[@dsinsocal]

I'll just never understand why people care. If you literally have "no idea", then why does it matter? Trimming is one thing, because you're altering the physical specs of the card. Coloring is one thing because it's 100% noticeable with very minor scrutiny. But removing stains or general grime in a manner that doesn't alter the physical properties of the card... I just don't see how that is a negative thing. Like someone else mentioned, this isn't a new thing. People have been doing this stuff for 30-50 years already. If there were going to be adverse effects, we would have seen them by now.

[@ClementeCollector]

I get your point, but has Kurt’s solution been proven over 30-50 years? He says he won’t disclose what’s in it. Orlando did make a video about a stain that came back in a soaked card, I guess it depends if you think that’s a one off or not. My thought is simple- an SGC whatever grade is the same price cleaned or not cleaned, right? I’d prefer to buy the card not soaked, for that money, but unfortunately I don’t have a choice because I don’t know and the grader doesn’t know. Only real person benefiting is the flipper, I don’t know of guys that buy low grade vintage cards, and make them higher grades for their PC. Not saying that doesn’t exist just not common.

[@dsinsocal]

​@@ClementeCollector I kind of understand the objection from a "gut" perspective. To some people, cleaning a card just "feels" wrong, so their brain classifies the act as being "objectively wrong" and then they go about trying manufacture "objective" reasons to justify their feeling. But from a practical, logical standpoint, the position just doesn't make much sense to me. Just a little background on me... aside from being a card collector, I used to help my dad restore vintage cars. We used to buy cars from barns and fields in the Midwest and then truck them back to California and bring them back to life. In my mind, there is nothing better than restoring a classic to its former glory. For that reason, I don't have a problem with people who do that kind of work at all. If you literally can't tell the difference between a cleaned and un-cleaned card, why do you prefer one over the other? If they are functionally, visually and objectively the same by every normal means of evaluation, then what is the grievance, exactly? The argument essentially boils down to, "I don't like it, because I don't like it", which doesn't really sound like a serious argument to me. I also feel like focusing on Kurt here is a bit of a smokescreen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that you have the same exact objection to EVERY card cleaning method, even the ones that HAVE been proven over the past 30-50 years. Removing Kurt from the equation, are you ok with cleaning techniques that HAVE been proven not to structurally alter the card? In other words, if you were guaranteed to receive the EXACT SAME card -- down to the molecule -- would you still object to it being cleaned? If so, why? I tend to think that, the more high-quality cards there are in the marketplace, the more it benefits the hobby as a whole. If every 1933 Goudey Ruth could be cleaned up to be a 4 or 5 I might actually be able to afford one. :)

[@dsinsocal]

@@ClementeCollector I mean, honestly the "we don't have a choice" horse kind of left the barn a long time ago There is absolutely no way of knowing how many cards were soaked and cleaned through the '70s and '80s, so why are we focusing on a guy doing it in 2024?

[@ClementeCollector]

@@dsinsocal there’s a lot to unpack here. I’m not sure I can cover everything. I do appreciate the thoughts and the background. It’s cool as hell you and your Dad restored old cars! I personally, will only wipe my cards with a microfiber cloth. I don’t have any interest in making them better. I got 61-63 cards from my dad, I’d never tamper with them. Your question of- what if we prove Kurt’s solution is safe and doesn’t damage cards in the future- I wouldn’t make a video about this or complain. I still don’t like amateur cleaners doing it, because you can damage cards if you soak too long and what not. Why does that matter? I’d prefer pieces of history not getting damaged. I don’t think we will see eye to eye, but everyone is entitled to their opinion!

[@Big_L_sportscards]

No issue at all you won't Even know it was used on your cards. Stop crying

[@Kitchen33318]

Team Kurt!