Why Light is the Hero of Death Note

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Video Concept by: Zero
Script Written by: Amy Summer
Script Edited and Performed by: Zero
Video Edited by: Filz

[@HxH2011DRA]

The problem is people don't actually follow basic logiclikr this. Look at this comment section: you perfectly laid out the entire rational for why Light literally HAD to do what he did to even be *considered* a moral person by any reasonable standard,and yet they stillseek to argue. Even you don't ultimately agree with the logic you laid out here if I recall correctly. But it's truth is what determines the reality, not human feelings about it. "Such is the purpose of the church. If the wise do not guide the meek, they shall squabble endlessly without aim."- Idore Delmira

[@KatoBeyond]

I think it's very telling that most of the decriers in these comments have to intentionally avoid the information that Kira was actually reducing crime rates and wars around the time he was taken out. That's probably the most interesting question about the late stage of Death Note: Should Kira be taken down when the system is working? That said, I don't think we know enough about Light's logic to find it agreeable or not. The variable is what Light plans to do after he ascends to the status of Godhood. Does he think a God should stay out of human affairs and only judge them, or does he think a God should shepherd humanity directly?

[@HxH2011DRA]

@KatoBeyond with great power comes great responsibility to create morality. While that may sound like circular reasoning (cuz it is), the utility of the logic can't be denied. And as we know maximizing utility is the most moral path

[@hmssirius9343]

@@KatoBeyond The "decriers" don't have to intentionally avoid it because it's simply not the most important part of the discussion around an object like the Death Note. The implications of owning an instrument of death like the Death Note, which can be used with impunity without checks and balances (which is exactly how it's used by the Yotsuba group), is the most important thing. Ignoring this as if it's irrelevant - the same way you think ignoring the crime rates and reduction of war is silly - is even more silly.

[@Dario-uj6qo]

There are s few problems with this: 1) he didn't do it to help people, he was just a narcisist who wanted to play god, it was just an excuse because he wants to be the one who judges who lives and dies 2) he didn't have a moral background, he was a sadistic who enjoyed killing even those who did the bare minimun 3) he killed people who didn't make sense (and I am not talking just about those who opposed him) and was ok with killing those who "weren't productive", if you want to help then why showing no apreciation for human life? 4) why killing those who work to get the people you want to see dead arrested? 5) at what cost, having people living with fear? Having people that could die for any reason? Having people leaving their lives back and joining the cult? Having the society be what he desires? I would (hardly) understand this kind of debates if there was some smbiguity in the show but there almost isn't, he is just a psycopath who enjoys having power over life and dead. Things like saying that he got the crimes into a new low not only dosen't work as an excuse (aside from the fact that not every crime is a serious one) because it would mean that the end justify the means and also begs the question, if this came thanks to all this killing and suffering did he really made things better? Did he really save lives? Wouldn't his control over society get worse? By that logic if am authoritarian regime got into power, did the same and killed those who opppsed them by using that excuse, would that be justified? This is what scares me the most about these kind of stances, because it is defending these kind of stances and acts.

[@clxedoandroberts]

Your way of thinking is intolerant, just because you're passionate about a point you or someone else makes doesn't mean I now lose the right to disagree. "If you don't agree you're illogical". - I would argue against Kira being a hero cause now you Light, a human who can sometimes be wrong; who can be persuaded by emotion. Someone like Kira existing also rids people of their free will, when God plays god in the old testament people have a problem. When a human plays god he "had" to do it.

[@KatoBeyond]

There's a reason I discussed the characters who refuse to use the Death Note- who reject the power to kill. The main point of this video isn't the spiel at the end, that was just to explain why I'm making this video. The point is that there's no more moral way to use Kira's power, in principle, than by killing the "right people": those who deserve to die. Of course, that's a subjective metric. To everyone in the comments saying that criminals are hardly the right people to focus on, I'm inclined to agree

[@tristankawatsuma8962]

Okay, I’ll concede Kira did something most people only dream of. Like Zero, he ends violence (Or was on the verge of ending it) which would give the world all the time to focus on other issues. And even if Ryuk took back the Death Note after Light dies, at least two or three generations would be taught not to commit violent actions like murder and war. I’m certainly a guy who likes security, central government, and believes that freedom is not a pure idea. By this logic, I should be on Kira’s side. I may be a lot like Matsuda. Honestly though, I just can’t get around Light desiring to become the world’s god and how a Kira Cult pops up. I mean, look at Mikami. The guy may be a respectable lawyer, but he’s a fanatic to Kira. Not just a follower, but a fanatic. As much as I get annoyed by people who think freedom is more important than security, Light wants to make an opposite trade. Honestly, it becomes easier to criticize Light when I compare him to Lelouch. Lelouch actually allows the world to govern itself while Light by the end of the show has little to no issue with basically ruling the world. Sorry, but as chaotic as democracy can be, having only one person in charge with a power like the Death Note or Geass is just terrifying. At least Lelouch has friends and allies who could guide him if he did decide to rule the world, but who did Light have besides his family by the end? Everyone else was dead or pushed away. What would really stop Kira from becoming a cruel dictator? All we know about his standards is he hates killers, criminals, and anyone opposed to Kira. Would anyone who doesn’t praise Kira be in the third category? I know there isn’t a certain answer, but if anything that makes me more fearful of a Kira victory. We simply don’t know what he’ll do as Earth’s god. As motivated as he is to wipe out crime and war, he does gain a god complex. Once, I probably could be described as a pure utilitarian. Nowadays while I still concede sacrifices have to be made, I now believe such sacrifices must be avoided by all means and even when such means fail, some moral sacrifices still aren’t worth it. Yes, Light ended war and nearly did the same to crime. But I honestly can’t judge only by these results. Democracy and the status quo are far from perfect as Death Note shows. Still, it seems like a better starting point for a better world than the world Light was making. It’s not enough for people to survive, but they also have to be alive. It just looks like the only freedom Kira fought for was Freedom from Death, at the cost of other freedoms.

[@finnicpatriot6399]

Yo dude change the batteries for that fire alarm

[@Goldjohney2]

100%!! I have no idea how people can live with that noise and not realize. The first chirp is at ~ 0:10 in the video and makes me not wanna watch the rest even though I normally love all of Kato’s death note content Also there’s of course the obvious safety concerns of the alarm not working if there’s an actual fire at Kato’s place lmao

[@NikhilStill]

​@@Goldjohney2someones a little a autistic?

[@DowntownTasty]

Yeah my biggest problem was that a lot of the people he punished were people that had just been arrested and not yet convicted at all. And I’m sure wrongful convictions are a bigger thing in Japan than in the USA cuz their legal system is a lot more strict. Actually one thing I liked that he did is handing off the book to Teru Mikami. As a prosecutor he would be able to sift through everything and likely know which people were truly guilty. Teru may be very prosecutorial minded but his whole sticking up for the little guy mentality leads me to believe he’s not one who would tolerate false convictions.

[@errwhattheflip]

The guy addresses that. He isn’t saying Light’s a good guy or even that he did nothing wrong

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

"Look What You Made Me Do" is basically Death Note from Light's POV. I still love L more than anything, though.

[@viriatox9782]

I think that there is a detail that is often overlooked when talking about Light. Many people focus on his God complex, his narcissism, his sense of justice, etcetera; but quite some time ago I found a blog about the series that had an interesting theory: *What if all the "I will be the God of the New World" thing is initially a blatant lie for Ryuk?* When Light finds the notebook, at first he thinks it's an elaborate prank, but after the first death, he claims it has to be a coincidence. Even so, the question of whether or not he has become a murderer eats at him until he finds out, so he justifies using it a second time to find out the truth. After the second death, he begins to regret what he has done, but it doesn't take long for him to quickly justifies it (although some panels are shown in the manga where his psychological suffering is better observed; that blog is mostly based on the manga) and must use that power to change and improve the world. Of course, add that he is a person of integrity who considers himself superior (at least intellectually) to others whose deep and strict morality has been shattered after the first two names and is looking for some way to live with what he has done. However, we forget about the moment when Ryuk arrives and Light believes that the shinigami has come to take his soul or something, for having used a shinigami's notebook. Therefore, this suggests that he has used the notebook so much in such a short time because he believed that he did not have enough time to help improve the world, because he believed that something would come to kill him soon. But Ryuk tells him several things: - that the notebook is from the Human world as soon as it touched the ground. - that the notebook is Light's until the moment he dies or passes on the notebook, and in the latter case, he would lose all memories of the notebook. - that by being the first human to take the notebook, Ryuk would kill Light by writing his name in his own notebook. - that Ryuk threw the notebook into the human world because he was bored. Therefore, Light knew that, whatever happened, Ryuk would kill him whenever he wanted, which could happen as soon as he got bored of him. Therefore, Light (which one of his qualities is knowing how to treat anyone he talks to) realizes that the best way to survive the threat to his life is to try to get Ryuk to empathize with him (he tell him that he started writing in the notebook because "he was bored", just like Ryuk) or, at least, do everything possible to make him as less bored as possible with him (what better way to entertain a shinigami than to see how a human tries to become a god for the rest of the humans?). Even so, in the blog its author alleges that in the manga there are indications that Light was losing himself little by little, despite this possibility, until a key moment arrives: the television confrontation with L. According to this theory, after being deceived by L with Lind L Taylor's trick, Light was able to mentally recover and try to evade the threat that hung over his head, thanks to the mental challenge that L provided him. The fact of that cat and mouse chase with L is what motivated him to keep going, and he began to believe his own lie about being a new god, until, when he regained the memories of the Death Note, he already fully embraced the God complex. PS1: I just mentioned it in a reply to a comment, but I think I should comment it here too. PS2: I don't know why but KZbin won't let me put the blog link, so I'll tell you how I found it: Googled *Light Yagami Analysis* and look for a result that says *Supernova: A Light Yagami Analysis* That's one of the analyzes and theories that can be found on the blog. PS3: If anyone has any doubts about it, I am not the author of that blog. I found the blog quite some time ago and its theories seemed interesting and plausible enough to me, despite the fact that they violate some of the most firm beliefs of the DN fandom.

[@errwhattheflip]

It doesn’t make much sense to claim that Light wasnt bored because even visually you can see he really was bored

[@nahte123456]

So for bonus nerd points I'm going to quote Suzaku of all characters. "What standards do they have." Light may have done good for a while but Light has been tricked before, he's made mistakes, stuff like false convictions aren't even touched on really. It's all based on his own perspectives and he doesn't even really communicate that. Take the agents he killed, did they know Kira would do something like this? Do normal people know he would? Kira's standards are just what Light thinks at any time, and as we see with the other Kira's, that's not concrete or reliable.

[@Dissection39]

I think Ryuk said it best on Light killing the evil people of the world; "...but wouldn't that make you the only bad person left?" Light is evil, he himself acknowledges it multiple times, even if it is for the sake of the greater good. Light committed the evils he was trying to prevent, making him the villain of the story, including in his own mind. I would argue that he is more of an anti-villain than a full on hero. Do I think he was making the most appropriate choice when presented with the power of the Death Note? Yes. Does it make Light the lesser of 2 evils? Yes. Does Light sacrifice his soul and morality for the power he wields? Also yes. Light is the tragic villain of his own story because he becomes the thing he hates so much, in order to attempt to prevent it.

[@thegrandwombat8797]

Light's response to Ryuk's question was "Huh? I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m a hard-working honor student who is considered to be one of Japan’s best and brightest." Not exactly full throated agreement. He doesn't think he's doing evil - his ideological perspective doesn't acknowledge good and bad actions, it uses them to categorize people into good and bad. In his mind, he's a good person, an upstanding honor student, so if he does bad things, that's fine. But if someone else does something against the law, it's proof to him they're a bad person, and thus deserving of his judgement. It's a weird way to think, but frankly it's the only one that gives him any room to even start to assume he could get rid of all the "evil people." This is made even more obvious when he turns against Kira when he doesn't know he's the one responsible for the killings anymore. Without this knowledge, Light does not agree that Kira's actions are the lesser of two evils. He wants to stop Kira. Once he remembers that he, a supposed "good person," is the one behind it, though, he immediately changes his mind again (with surprisingly little self reflection). Light has a huge ego, I don't see any interpretation that shows him recognizing himself as evil - although the story does.

[@Dissection39]

@@thegrandwombat8797 sure, by the end he thinks he's 100% right. Calling everyone useless fools and trying to kill everyone on the task force. At first though, while contemplating using the DN he is in utter despair, questioning what is wrong with him even thinking about using the DN. When Ryuk first appears he was willing to go to hell for the things he's done, admitting that his morality was a small price to pay for the betterment of the world. It's after he develops his God complex that he throws any notion of backing down out the window, even if presented with evidence that using the DN is wrong and causes more harm than good. He starts down a path that ends in ethical ruin, and everyone knows it; the power warps your perspective and Light knew this before he started.

[@thegrandwombat8797]

@@Dissection39 Yeah, I think it's fair to say that he's apprehensive at first, and concerned with the morality around it. I think that when he hadn't used it, the powers sounded as evil to him as when he forgot he'd used it, but it does seem like Light has a hard time actually viewing himself as bad given how quickly he switches from thinking that kind of killing is bad to being fully on board once he's killed someone - especially after it happens a second time.

[@alanli2404]

The issue is that deterrence does not work. We have been cutting off hands and heads for the last 5000 years and people will still commit crimes is the have or want to, regardless of the consequences. Making a judiciary more tyrannical and absolutist won't reduce crime but just make it more hidden and more violent. I understand Ohba has his bias of being natively Japanese. However the Japanese criminal justice system is one of the harshest and most unfair in the world, and it would be a catastrophe to suddenly enforce it on a global scale.

[@hunterkage2842]

Well Light probably also killed corrupted leaders like Kim Jong-il and motived world leaders to act good, so it's not just criminal. Not saying he's right but it's just something to keep in mind.

[@Crigence]

Actually, I believe the creator once stated that he agrees more with Neir, who is more anti-Kira than anything

[@decium1846]

Agreed. It only works with mutually assured destruction. Otherwise people will either weigh the risk or not think of it.

[@IHaveWaffles]

​@@decium1846 yeah but if the risk is your life, I think more people would not try it.

[@bornanime3255]

I mean even then Japan has some of the lowest crime rate globally. Not to mention in those cases the punishment came from corrupt powers and you'd just have to avoid the people in charge or pay them off. In the case of Kira he's mystical. To the world he's like a deity. If they don't know how he works and can seemingly kill anyone anywhere at any time then at the very least even if some is hidden it's going to greatly make people shift. The death note is a very very unique tool that just isn't something we have in this world so it's likely that it could have a good effect.

[@SwungCookie]

Lol yes killing Lind L. Taylor made him evil. Not only because the man was supposedly innocent but because Light made the choice to kill him when it wasn't necessary. Idk how you can say Light isn't wrong thinking those that want to stop him are truly evil. That's literally the ramblings of a psycho

[@kevintanza6968]

Light at one point decided to kill people that simply didn't share his point of view or anybody that he considered a potential threat. Thing is, people like Light, Eren or Thanos in the MCU always use a faux argument to validate their genocides. "I'm doing this to create a better world"... yeah, with you on top. With you always on top. How is that different to the classic villain that wants to rule the world? I bet if we get a series from Lex Luthor's perspective, he would be a very reasonable man and Superman would look like a villain.

[@l.pricetag.5207]

​@@kevintanza6968 to be fair to Thanos, he never intended to be on top. As soon as he accomplished his goals, he straight up retired.

[@casperd2100]

​@@kevintanza6968ok narcissist. "If i cant be on top, nobody can!"

[@kickflippro3]

Knowing the FBI’s history, I wouldn’t automatically assume they’re unjustified killings.

[@S.pilgrim]

Good video, as always very entertaining and worth the watch. I come to a different conclusion though, and fall on the other side of the spectrum. To me he's a firm villain, but I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here, and all of our personal ideologies will decide what answer we come to. A bit like the trolley question. Light is the hero of the story, the protagonist, but personally I find his actions irredeemable, and from earlier in the narrative, before even the more full blown acts of villainy occurred. One thing I find really interesting about the character, perhaps even the most interesting thing about him, is that when he temporarily wiped his knowledge of his direct participation as the original Kira, he unknowingly judged himself. He recognises similar thought patterns between himself and said original Kira, but ultimately decides that despite sharing a few thoughts he could never be Kira, and finds Kira and murder to both be morally reprehensible, despite the good that has occurred as a result. Is this because Light sans memories isn't yet corrupted by the power of the death note and earnestly finds Kira's actions to be wrong? Or is it because it's not Light himself (at least to his knowledge) behind the murders, and that's why it's wrong to him, because only he in his mind could be trusted with such power? Your point about the new safe world being a fake one is a good point, and I think whether the end justifies the means will be the main factory for people in answering the is Light justified question. You're not wrong about the lives it's saved. You also pointed how actual society operates on a similar basis which again is a good point, with the threat of incarceration playing a role in maintaining social stability. Most people are vehemently against rape for example, but if tomorrow all legal restrictions on such an act were lifted, there would be some people who would then commit such acts. Because it wasn't their moral outlook that stopped them prior, but rather the fear of retribution. Despite all this the end doesn't justify the means for me, I would rather live in an imperfect world dictated by the rules of men, as opposed to a safer one subject to the whims of a god.

[@ItsShaz1]

Loved the video my friend

[@SchmitzCinemaStudies]

I don't know I don't hear any resignation in his voice when he says, "I will become the God of this new world!" Quite the opposite in fact, he sounds excited. It's far too much power to give to anyone, much less a narcissist like Light.

[@Zero-ef4sc]

Why do people always mention these irrelevant things as if they're relevant? "100s of thousands of people are saved" "BbbBut liGHt iSssA NaRCissiSt"

[@animashups9646]

​@@Zero-ef4sc bro is on lights side 💀

[@Zero-ef4sc]

@@animashups9646 number of relevants points: 0

[@animashups9646]

@@Zero-ef4sc Okay. First make a point. You haven't even presented an argument I'll gladly prove you wrong if you believe Light was right.

[@Zero-ef4sc]

@@animashups9646 the point was the "Light is a narcissist" is irrelevant compared to the thousands of lives saved. A narcissist that saves lives and makes the world better isn't a bad thing.

[@deldarel]

The term for him is anti-villain and I think I've never seen anyone embody it this strongly.

[@harshraj9266]

He was never the hero. Read the manga ending

[@ThePowerofStoriesDK]

Whoo, boy. This is the first time I've ever 100% hard disagreed with your guys' take lol. Like pretty much every point you made. I'll absolutely admit that Light was the perfect PROTAGONIST for Death Note, but hero? You could maybe squeak out a barely justifiable explanation for Light being an Anti-hero, but even that seems like an almost impossible task. He's very clearly the villain of this story. The perfect protagonist to choose perspective-wise, but still very much the villain. Great video! As you mentioned near the end, as much as I strongly disagree with the whole ends-justify-the-means argument (the position of every tyrannical despot throughout history), you certainly dole out a lot of food for thought here. It made me go through each point to actually think about and construct relevant counter-arguments, instead of just immediately concluding the Light is wrong because "I feel like he's evil." Keep up the good work!

[@HaloGoated]

People really act like they're good astounding people with the heart of an angel as soon as light is discussed........like they wouldn't do the same thing or worse.....🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽🤦🏽

[@HaloGoated]

I'm team light that's all I'll say I won't defend him because it is a waste of time it won't go nowhere tbh nether should you it's an anime character....arguably one of the best ones.....but that's just me tho...

[@drewc8052]

I’m not sure how so many people missed Light’s megalomaniacal psychopathic mannerisms and ideologies. Every great villain has convinced themselves they’re doing the right thing but with villains like light there is 0 effort to hide how much he is enjoying playing god and taking lives at will. This obviously stems from Light’s hatred of the world as he sees it but I can almost guarantee Light would have been addicted to using the death note in every single scenario even if he doesn’t have L to push him. People like light have a sense of justice and morals that appear righteous on the surface but deep down they’re just an excuse to watch the world burn.

[@RealLifeIronMan]

To play devil's advocate, if Light was somber about it, would it be more moral?

[@drewc8052]

@@RealLifeIronMan no, then he’d just be like Thanos. Murder is murder no matter how you try to justify it. Either way Light is the villain.

[@RealLifeIronMan]

@@drewc8052 Again to play devil's advocate (I just like discussing ethics and morals), is killing always immoral? Most would say there are exceptions. If so, what are the exceptions?Self-defense? Defense of others?

[@drewc8052]

@@RealLifeIronMan I’m not sure what you’re arguing here since none of lights murders were in self defense or to protect anyone

[@RealLifeIronMan]

@@drewc8052 However, from Light's perspective he is defending others. The difference is timing. Most would agree it is moral to kill someone who is immediately threatening someone's life. But what about some one who is likely to threaten someone's life in the future and you can't predict how or when? Its the Batman-Joker dilemma. If you know the Joker is going to kill others in the future and the only way in your power to stop him is to kill him, is it moral to do so? I don't have an answer for that. Light would certainly say it is moral.

[@bornanime3255]

I always thought Light was in the right personally. He got way over his head and could've definitely done more to reform the world, but I think in the end his methods benefited the world. The fact that millions if not billions can have less fear of rape, murder, theft, assault, etc in their lives is good. I feel like we live in a world made up of sacrifices and Light's world's sacrifices were ones I don't oppose

[@user-mx4is4fx3c]

The thing with Light is, he showed many times that his morals were hypocritical and applied only when it suited him. He killed Ray Pember and Naomi and was extremely cruel with her spesifically, just to satisfy his ego and avoid being caught. Then he gave the notebook to a businessman that killed indiscriminately for his personal benefit. If Light actually upheld the moral values he uses to justify his actions, he wouldn't adopt the "ends justify the means" mentally that he clearly has.

[@PikaCheeks]

You could say he's... "THE LIGHT WITHIN THE DARKNESS!" :O

[@DammnDeejay]

Next video: Why Griffith did NOTHING Wrong😂😂

[@user-bt5vz3yf4j]

No that guy is pure evil

[@user-bt5vz3yf4j]

Light just wanna make the world better

[@shadowboy2417]

​@@user-bt5vz3yf4j Griffith just wants to have his own kingdom.

[@thegrandwombat8797]

@@user-bt5vz3yf4j The point is that Light is terrible too, and to suggest otherwise is as ridiculous as saying Griffith isn't bad

[@-Scrapper-]

​@@thegrandwombat8797 Good cause not so good execution isn't the same as Bad cause Bad execution

[@starwarsfamilyguy0]

10:04 ikr, to this day ive yet to see a single argument thats actually good against light yagami

[@parsafakhar]

FINALLY , someone said it, light is the hero thanks for this video

[@roamingnpc7088]

Wonder if eventually, people would stop naming their kids to try and make it so Kira would be unable to kill them. Doubt it would work but it be interesting to watch someone without the shinigami eyes try to find a name for someone who wasn’t born with one.

[@johndoe3307]

Thank you, Kira is the hero we need

[@rubywhiterose6888]

Sometimes the Main Character or Main Characters can play both protagonist and Antagonist.

[@-Scrapper-]

That's not what antagonist mean

[@305Independent]

No, Light's the protagonist and the villain.

[@themostdeadmeme1609]

I think the biggest turning point of why Light is at least a bit evil is the death of Naomi Misora. Not the act itself, it could be argued in Light's case that it was a necessary action to take, Naomi had insanely good intel on the Kira case and was already shown to be a great potential asset for L. The problem I have is *after* the 40 second mark. The snide remarks and smirks, going so far as to mock her when he knows damn well what comes next. Naomi's death wasn't just a preventative measure to keep the spotlight away from him. Light enjoyed it, Light wanted to revel in the fact he could look her in the eyes as she lost her agency and began to leave. Light may have killed truly bad people, saving many more lives, but the problem is that this mission wasn't to save the world. It was because he was bored and the Death Note, Near, Mellow, and L were the only things that let him push his intellect to its maximum limit. Doing a good thing is good, but the intentions are very important as well. Was this a crusade to save a rotten world? Or was that just an excuse for a bored genius to play with the lives of people he just didn't care about.

[@KiomonDuck]

You eat that chip Kato👍

[@raulgarcia8627]

Paraphrasing Light: -There's something about the notebook that makes people want to use it (proven false by all the characters that did not want to use it by the way. So I think you may need a Light Yagami kind of personality if you want to use it 👀) -I'm doing this because I was bored - wtf Ryuk, why are you calling me evil? I'm good and cool. In fact I'm so good and cool that people should worship me as a god. I should kill the local bully... In fact I should kill all these people that I personally find annoying... Nah wait that'd be easily traced back to me. I shouldn't kill anyone I know.... But I definitely have to find something to do with this killing power 🤤 And all of that is just the first episode ☝️🤦‍♂️ Also I find it concerning to think that since one already killed one person they can just go on killing at will.. since you already have the label of murderer you know 🤷‍♂️

[@lasa0031]

The author talked about how light was evil, and neirs speech at the end after catching light might as well have been the author himseld telling us how to view light yet people still ignore it because he is cool and suave.

[@zero1188]

Never really saw him as a villian. He did what he had to do. L did the same thing light did, he just didnt kll anyone. Even though he had no problem letting people die

[@dalenlewin]

Can you please talk about code ment? As a channel that covers code Geass in as much depth as you do, I can't believe you haven't talked about it already.

[@pyropulseIXXI]

I also thought the people opposing Light were a bunch of idiots. I guess this is what separates the normies from those with the will to power. A lot of the comments here are just people repeating their programming of what 'morality' is. It is quite interesting to see

[@StrategicGenius-fw4re]

Nietzsche Enjoyer?

[@samcore5820]

A lot of people still mentioning the way Light spoke his words about being a God and every time mentioning the WAY he sounds like, his tone and way of speaking his most popular quotes, BUT exact same people will never talk about the results, and will defend L or N or Melo or anyone from Wammy's House. Results is 70% reduction in the global crime rate (and the ending wars claim) is proof that Kira’s methods are an effective deterrent to crime and that he objectively made a change toward a better and safer world. After his death percentage jumped so high. For L it was ONLY a game of mind for N it was ONLY a puzzle, I think I don't have to talk about Melo. EXAMPLE: For an example, if you imagine that you had a small child, and when he/she was in kindergarten and one day a terrorist would enter this kindergarten threatening to destroy everything or/and kill everyone and at that moment he would die at the hands of Kira (like the first liquidation of the criminal by Light ) wouldn’t you be at least grateful to Kira for the fact that your child is actually ALIVE ?

[@Roggoll]

This argument entirely rests on the idea that what light was doing A: works and B: is justified. A: This story is fiction. In real life people who commit criminal acts do not think they will be caught. Punishment is not an effective deterrent for the vast majority of criminals and completely ignores the reasons as to why criminals commit crimes in the first place. They commit them because they have a lack and wish to make up for that lack by circumventing the law. Light's plan would not actually work in real life and would not reduce crime rates. The story self-justifies some of light's actions by bending the truth of how crime actually works. These criminals that he's killing are ALREADY CAUGHT. Death row already exists in America and people still commit awful crimes. This line of reasoning for what light is doing doesn't apply. Sure he may have been right in this made-up story world but if you actually try and apply these principles to real life by any objective standard he's a vigilante idiot. B: What light is doing is not justified. No matter how you slice it these criminals may be entirely innocent and its not light's call to make to kill them. He can't investigate for real and hear all arguments and make an accurate judgment because if he did then he'd reveal himself. Even if he had 100% hit rate on people who actually committed the crimes they are accused of does someone really deserve to die for selling drugs or for stealing a TV. That's quite an insane leap to say these people deserved it and frankly morally abhorrent to even suggest that. If light actually cared about making the world a better place he would go after corrupt politicians and evil businessmen who are ruin the planet and taking money from the poor to fund their never-ending vanity projects. The criminals are already being punished, they are in prison or going to prison and if they aren't already in prison then they haven't been proven guilty and light is just applying biased subjective judgment. His ideology is based on an evil kind of conservatism that seeks to eradicate crime without acknowledging any of the criminals as people who may have been pushed into being such by life circumstances. I really hope you think about what you're advocating for here because this ideology is frankly evil and should be opposed at every possible opportunity.

[@hunterkage2842]

I highly doubt Light just targeted criminals but he likely killed corrupted governments leaders until they started acting less corrupted. Not defending Light but I'm curious to your reply since alot of people over look this.

[@StrawberryDreemurr]

Thank you for summing it up for me! This is a terrible way to view the series! It never once depicts Light in a heroic light, and that’s on purpose. I really do not understand what brought this train of thought along.

[@okguzelce]

Very good write up, thanks

[@ciarangallagher9330]

The goal was to reduce crime, turn everyone into upstanding citizens in his own image, a 70% drop in crime rate is a success which justifies what led to it. Where he went wrong was planning to shift things towards killing unproductives because he ran out of criminals, that's a step beyond the death penalty

[@bornanime3255]

Simply killing off big people in power would be pointless. There would always be someone who'd take over and be just as corrupt and twisted. The person in charge doesn't matter. Changing their mindset and making them afraid does. The thing that makes Light different from a justice system is that to people he feels like a deity. He can kill anyone, anywhere at anytime and have them die of any death. At least with the justice system all you have to fear is the people. There's more reason to assume it'd be more effective here as he appears to people as an all seeing god. Not only that, but is the killing really so bad in this case? The millions of murders, rape, wars, theft, etc that have been reduced is good. Even if he killed a 100'000 innocent people he saved millions more than any other person. Everyone deserves to be redeemed, but is it so wrong? If it means less crime then that's good. Any alternative means willfully accepting that many will be condemned to suffering. Sacrificing just a few in the grand scheme of things with the idea that it would be successful is good. Think of all those who have lost family members and loved ones that would thank you. The men and women who can live with less fear of rape and assault. There's just so much benefit that sacrificing just a few is just logical. Even if it's a peace made out of fear.

[@eduardomartins701]

if you save 100 people then kill 1 you still go to jail

[@theroyalwraith791]

From the perspective of an outsider, I can sort of understand seeing Kira as not all bad, or even as good, which is the point Matsuda makes near the end of the show. However, from the perspective of the audience it is undeniable that Light is an evil person. Light while under the influence of the Death Note is never shown to have genuine concern for others, outside of furthering his own ends. There is no hesitation with him, he would kill literally anyone if he deemed it necessary for his own ambitions. Take his handling of Naomi Misura. She was an innocent widow just seeking to avenge her husband (who was himself innocent of anything beyond trying to catch Kira). If you want to make a consequentialist argument and say her death was necessary to keep Light from being caught, then fine, but not only is he unsympathetic, he outright taunts her as she leaves to end her life. There’s no apology, no sorrow, not even a tearful look. He saw her not as a person, but as an obstacle in his way. He spent the last moments of his own fathers life trying to get him to kill Mello (and by the rules of the note this would exclude him from Heaven & Hell by the way). The video mentions how Light forgoes killing Sayu, but neglects to mention that his decision not to kill her was not because of any moral implications of doing so, but solely because it would arouse suspicion. He would have killed her without hesitation if he thought it necessary. As previously stated, I can sort of understand the perspective of supporting Kira in a vacuum, detached from what we know about Light. It’s ultimately an argument about consequentialism. Is any evil Kira commits okay so long as it yields a good outcome? I would say no. People who would argue in favor of this are very often hypocritical. It’s easy to say that the deaths of innocents are okay so long as it’s for the greater good when your life is not the one at stake. I believe Light is hypocritical about this as well. Were he offered the choice to end all crime immediately at the cost of his own life, I think he would refuse. After all, he refused the eye deal, which would have made him far more effective as Kira, because he wants to reign over the world for as long as he can. Improving the world is not Kira’s main objective, becoming a god is. Light may have reduced crime rates and war, but the results of his actions are not necessarily good. For one, criminals always have the possibility of being reformed. Sure, there are some criminals that never will, but we have no way of knowing if they’re dead. In regards to the general public, while they don’t have to live in fear of criminals, they now live in fear that Kira could kill them at any moment. The fact that he doesn’t kill the innocent now doesn’t preclude him from doing so in the future. Even if you trust Kira himself, there’s still cause for concern should his power fall into the hands of someone else. The Death Note is simply too powerful for anyone to have. Light is a fascinating protagonist, but he is absolutely the villain of the story.

[@tavocadito]

Lights is the villain there no real debate to that, really inmature morals

[@mattb.7079]

The biggest problem I have with this reasoning is that Light's view on what'll make the world a better place is extremely naïve and superficial simply because the justice systems themselves are corrupt. He thinks killing criminals is the best way to use the Death Note, but not even once he seems to question the very roots of crime, the socioeconomic conditions that lead people to commit crimes, the failure or disinterest of the states and institutions in providing a decent and secure life to the people they're responsible of, etc. Not even mentioning that the worst and most socially nefarious humans on Earth are likely to never even get prosecuted or just threatened in their position of committing atrocities, worsening social issues and suppressing those who try to stand for the dispossessed, and that, solely for their own advancement and/or the benefit of the ruling class. Light appears highly incoherent or, at best, immensely hypocritical and ego-driven to me: he claims to hate the world for the way it functions, but once he has the power to address the concrete issues that plague him (and you're not gonna tell me he doesn't have the knowledge and intelligence to figure it all out), he does nothing but to enforce the very same way the world functions - making the same value judgements than the very world he deemed corrupt, falling head-on into the biases of the justice system and putting their flawed logic to an extreme, perpetuating the same mechanism that led to the unjust world he claimed to hate so much, doing basically nothing more than hiding the trash under the rug as it always has been.

[@HaloJumper7]

Light and L are two highly manipulative psychopaths with different loose principles and goals to justify their actions who get depressed when they're bored and would die for a sense of purpose. That's why I didn't feel sad when they both died, they died doing what they enjoy the most, facing death for a sweet addictive adrenaline rush. Light was a vigilante and as the first OP song lyrics imply, has a revolutionary sense of justice which is often chaotic, swift and brutal while L represents the authorities fighting to be the exclusive enforcers of violence. They both strive to be leaders of both opposite sides of the battle and take the challenge very personally. Neither of them care about the material conditions and injustices that cause crime to rise in the first place as Light only once wacked a group of degenerate shareholders of a major corporation as a distraction and wasn't that much focused on combating wage theft or imperialism, only surgically amputating the resulting symptoms of the broader issues which in turn ended wars and lowered crime rates. This was all done with a sense of simple reward and punishment without any nuance and as a bonus so he can justify playing god.

[@KatoBeyond]

Thanks for commenting!

[@AlternateSnake]

I was on Light's team until the second act and his downward spiral from there. His killings were out of necessity at first (although taunting Ray Penber and Naomi MIsora was completely not cool) But in the second act there was just no morality left?? He killed Takada wasn't cautious of Near he let Soichiro die he treated Misa terribly. Like what?

[@saidi7975]

Sorry they weren't out of necessity. If Light hadn't answered L's provocation on TV , NOTHING would have ever happened. The guy had the perfect blameless weapon ! As long as Kira is just some urban myth, it's smooth sailing ! No one is gonna suspect a killer notebook... BUT the young Mr Yagami had to be an egotistical shithead and start the whole shebang by handing the cops the first clue... so no, nothing is justified there when it's the result of his own vanity.

[@AlternateSnake]

@@saidi7975 Light's a little egotistical and wanted to do the whole "make people scared" thing and killing L would get the message across quickly I'd imagine. Light isn't just killing criminals he's trying to influence the way the population thinks.

[@PowerBuffBoys]

I like your voice and tonality.

[@joeltraut5050]

If I was light. After confirming the death note was real I'd write my own name in it but set the time thousands of years into the future saying I died a free man, never being caught and still in the body of my 25 year old self with no illnesses or the like then have the cause of death being as painless as possible. Using something intended for death to extend my own life.

[@mohamedishakmessadia4908]

i do not think something like that would be possible with the death note , first of all i don't think you can extand your lifetime with the death note , second , as far as i remember , didn't they say in the series that you can not control people's actions with the death note for more then a certain periode of time . just speculating though , i do not really know .

[@derschattenpoet]

doesn't work because of 3 rules: 1st: Directly, the DeathNote can only take Lifespans of humans, not add to them (there is a workaround though) 2nd: The Deathnote generaly has a 23-Days Rule. That timespan is the limit in that the DeathNote works at all to manipulate and kill. 3rd: You simply can't set a Date that's is after ones current life span. If the span itself runs out, one dies nethertheless. So now to the workarround for your goal. To achieve an own lifespan of thousands of years you need to manipulate your shinigami and take responsibillity for a wordwide genocide. Step 1: Let the Shinigami kill as much persons as it needs to get the shinigamis lifespan to your wanted number, the most effective way would be if he kills toddlers (the rules state that the deathnote works on anyone at least 780 days old) for maximum numbers. So if he kills 3000 2-years-old little children you would get around 2000 years of lifespan added to your shinigami. Step 2: Then seduce said Shinigami so that he falls in love with you and use this forced and calculated love by making him do suicide by Step 3: Get yourself in a situation were you would be killed and let the shinigami safe you by killing the killer with his Deathnote (because you charmefully used yourself to manipulate his feelings to do that). The Shinigami would die and the accumulated lifespan of him is tranfered to you, giving you the thousand of years you desired. And so, without even using the Note yourself (so you arn't even forced to go to the Mu afterwards), you are immortal until the year 4100 or as long and you just want. And live a looooooong life of emotional suffering and agony after realizing what it's price was. As an additional Bonus: after your 124th Birthday, even another Shinigami can't kill you anymore. So we need to considder Step 4: Give another Person the DeathNote or let the DeathNote be stolen from you or just "lose" it (don't "lend" it, though). 490 Days after another got it then (or immediately if you passed it over directly), the Ownership will transfer to that person, therefore you are loosing your Memory of what you did with the Shinigami and just be a Miracle. p.S. There is a little catch to Step 4, you won't loose your Memory if you havn't used the DeathNote yourself at least once. So you will go to the Mu after your miraculous thousands-year-life.

[@clxedoandroberts]

I disagree, I think it would be interesting if you and me got on a call and debated our side for a video

[@homestuckhauntsme]

Dang even Matsuda didn't simp this hard.

[@alucardhellsing5466]

I think related to this topic when Death Note was gonna come out Ohba and Obata released a one shot manga of a kid getting the Death Note and meeting Ryuk and the only difference was that there was a Death Eraser that revived people killed by it. At the end it's shown that the protagonist is reading a magazine which posits the question "Qould you use the Death Note?" so they clearly know the implications of whats done in the series and want people to question themselves and make their own answers not give them to them.

[@Mahawww]

The idea of someone using the death note to make a better world is really interesting. And I think the fact that the show says crime rates drop after Kira starts killing is the author trying to say that Light's actions were working. While that may have been true in the short term, in the real world crime would just get more and more hidden and if he tried to stop it from doing that through more executions the world would have just fallen into chaos. But if we take the show at its word that somehow just killing people and threats leads to a safer world then yeah Kira would be a "benevolent" tyrant. Though I do think he'd get more and more tyrannical with age basically turning the world into a mono-theistic empire with him on top. Now if he were in the real world and actually wanted to make the world a better place he'd instate socialist reform, but you know let's not get political about the show with people committing crimes to change the world. That'd just be ridiculous.

[@whyjon2990]

finally someone says it

[@Reality-Distortion]

Very based for making it. It's funny how many people try to strawman utilitarianism as a valid moral framework in those debates. Or overlook details about Light's characterization and even author's statement all to paint him as some straightforward devil.

[@kingace6186]

You missed the entire point about Death Note. It's a cat-and-mouse story between the legal system and a psychotic, power-hungry, cult leader. A great fit for the conflict with the main moral being able to those young youths (in DN's case, specifically Japan's lost generation) that are the prime targets of the preachings of false messiahs who can miraculously "save the world", vigilantly-justice style. After all, that's why it was so important that Matsuda, a fellow youth of the lost generation who has almost felt for the "Kira is justice" delusion, was the one that ultimately killed Light Yagami. In doing so, Matsuda rejects the cults that prey on desperate youths and, ultimately, the idea of 'Kira', too. (IK in the anime, Ryuk killed him, but that couldn't be further from what happened in the manga.)

[@mynthis]

Light probably would have killed carol baskin

[@legoboy468]

The thing is that this series doesn’t actually portray how the world would actually react to a Kira-like force. Crime would go down temporarily as people were shocked by this, but eventually it would return to normal. Most crime isn’t caused by people just being bad, it’s caused by mental issues, economic circumstances, access to weapons, and cultural forces. Studies have shown over and over that deterrent doesn’t actually effect human behavior that much. Use the carrot, not the stick so to speak. So Light is wrong because not only is he killing a lot of people, many of whom are innocent or don’t deserve that punishment for the crime they did, but he’s also not going to actually save many lives either through deterrence. That’s why he’s wrong.

[@hunterkage2842]

Light wouldn't just targeted criminals but corrupted governments leaders too until they started acting less corrupted. Not defending Light but wish more people talked about this point since it's kinda a big part that isn't explored in the series for some reason.

[@ava_maria]

@@hunterkage2842 its not gonna make Non-Corrupted governments, it's just gonna make power vacuums in which increasingly secretive representatives. anyone who's done a serious crime and has not yet been killed probably has figured out that Kira isnt omnipotent, and i would expect a VAST underground network to spread now that the "normal" police have kinda given up and let Kira handle everything. black market would go crazy...

[@Gavin-ec5vf]

I think this mindset only holds water if you 1. Aren’t interested in speculating on some of the implications of a world like this where any crime from petty theft to feed your family to cold-blooded murder is met with the same instant death and 2. Really want to apply the prescription of “hero” and “villain” in a show that, in my opinion, kind of wasn’t about that They don’t provide you with a lot of other statistics or information about the world. They don’t tell you what lives are like for people whose life circumstances would otherwise force them into needing to commit some nonviolent crime as a means to survive. They barely tell you anything short of what the crime rate is, and I think that’s because it’s just not the point of the show. I think the scene of Light at L’s funeral illustrates best that it was never about creating a better world, it was about winning and ruling as the supreme being in a world that he creates. That’s why he only brings up the effects his actions have had on the world at the very end when he’s cornered, up until that moment the story is consistently focused on the conflict between Light and the people trying to stop him. I think trying to attribute Light as “the hero” is missing the point. This was never a game of heroes and villains, it was a game of “winners” and “losers.” They don’t provide you with enough information to determine whether or not the world he created is “better” beyond the scope of what Light has directly caused. That’s just my opinion tho, love the channel!

[@Terminatortravis]

Light is the hero

[@tywedlake6988]

Guys it says “of death note” in the title so if your gonna talk about how it wouldn’t work in our world don’t because we’re talking about it inside death notes world

[@draydinbardon9782]

Change your smoke detector battery jfc.

[@ThePurpleKnightmare]

This is the most insane thing I've ever listened to in full. Doesn't bring up Takeda. Which is just Light being a criminal. Apparently he thought about killing his sister? That's messed up, Idr it happening but that is so so so bad. Then there is Naomi Misora. As you said many were probably innocent, but he kills them anyways. However even beyond that, most of humanity does not believe that most criminals should be killed. You're all fucking monsters, most of you desire to kill others, just because someone does kill someone doesn't make them more evil than all those who will never end up killing someone. Therefor the goal is to rehabilitate the ones who do commit crimes to make them able to go back into society without doing more. If you change the person instead of killing them, it's the same thing, but without death. However I think the biggest problem here is that you think saving lives can make up for taking innocent lives. Even if you accept that cops deserve to die. Light kills way too many innocent people and just having indirectly saved many lives as well doesn't make that okay. The way Light treated the girls in his life, Misa, Takeda and even the girl he dated during Ray Pembers investigation is horrible. He see's them as disposable pawns, tries to sacrifice Misa many times, and does willingly sacrifice Takeda. This shit makes him a villain, undisputedly, he is so unheroic. No amount of good will ever make that okay. The fact is, Light was committing evil deeds to uphold an evil system, and improve it for his kind during his lifespan only. His way promotes "Hard Work" and beating the competition. The socially strong survive, and the socially weak die. That's not good ideals. Hard work shouldn't be seen as a virtue, it makes people easy to exploit. You brought up Code Geass during this, but this topic reminds me of a line from it "Stop it, the world you're speaking of will be kinder and gentler only for you! The world my sister wished for was one where kindness was extended to everyone, even strangers" Light's world is his ideal world, but it's terrible for someone like me who is lazy and "the only thing I work hard at is avoiding hard work" (Funny another Code Geass quote, applicable to me) Now I'm no criminal so I suffer in this world with or without Light. However if I did steal and commit fraud, I might be able to lazily allowed to live. It's not right to do that, but the system as it is isn't right. Why should I pay thousands a month to be allowed to live in a house? Why is that allowed to be a business? It's so easy to fix too, but those in power don't care about this issue. In either case, my situation will never be righteous or fair, I either commit evil or evil is committed against me. If I were to commit evil to escape evil, it would still be wrong for Light to KILL me for it. Light's first kill was okay, the rapist was going to do more damage with his actions than the damage that ended up happening and rapist rehabilitation is like the least effective kind. However at nearly every moment after that Light has been the villain.

[@KatoBeyond]

Thanks for commenting, I recognize your name but I don't know if you've seen my other Death Note videos. Most of my long time viewers should know what I'm doing with this upload but you mostly comment on the Code Geass stuff While it's true that Light was clearly monstrous to the people in his life, I don't think there's sufficient evidence to say that Light certainly wasn't intending to improve things for humanity in a lasting way beyond just his lifespan

[@rc59191]

Light and hero shouldn't even be used in the same sentence. If I was given the Deathnote I would give it back because it's not my place or even my interest to mess with the destiny of people like that. How many innocent people did he have to end to accomplish his goal? Near summed it up best at the end of the day he was nothing more tham a serialkiller.

[@redcrowinparadise]

petty criminals are not the cause of all your problems, Light's idea of justice is juvenile at best.

[@RealLifeIronMan]

Don't know. The presence and tolerance of petty crime (assault, theft, etc) by career criminals is a significant factor in many people's problems. For example, if all the gangsters disappeared from my community, all my most harrowing problems would be solved.

[@Darkdayzz]

Spoken as if yuou have not encountered petty crime before. It's the tolerance of crime that makes it so jarring for people.

[@spaceaxolotl6196]

Furthermore Light killed Innocent people, people whose job was to help others like the 12 FBI agents and L, I believe that we should focus on rehabilitating criminals not killing them.

[@lawnmower16]

​@@RealLifeIronMan people usually join gangs because it's their best option to succeed, or at least, it seems that way to them. They grow up in impoverished areas, their parents can't afford to nourish them properly, or fix the lead paint on their walls. Their schools aren't funded properly, etc. All their life they see the adults around them fail, go homeless, join gangs, go to prison, or constantly searching for jobs but nobody will hire them because they dropped out of high school. In that situation, crime seems like the quickest option to success, and the risk seems relatively low compared to other options. People don't turn to crime because there's something inherently wrong with them. It's a matter of the conditions they grew up with, their role models, their opportunities, all of that

[@lawnmower16]

If all the gangsters disappeared from a community, a new gang would form because the underlying problems were never addressed

[@the_expidition427]

0:10 replace your firealarm battery

[@VampireA1056]

Why Johan is the hero in Monster

[@ajdinimsirovic2757]

The reason why I consider Light is a villan is because he lacks self awareness, he considers himself a god when he is a man, he thinks himself as always doing what is right rather then what is necessary, to him if you oppose him you are inherently wrong you can't possibly be good person. He lacks any human relationships, think about it aside from his family does he have anybody else, which is troubling to say the least. He is, to certain extent, distant from the world he wishes to fix.The reasoning is cold logic, as far as we know he isn't traumatized by crime, his family wasn't really effected by it, he had a more less normal life, but due to his genius he is distant from others he grew to believe in his unquestioned superiority.

[@305Independent]

A hero wouldn't have manipulated Misa or gone doggy-style on L's grave like Light did. Light was bored and wanted to play God; he didn't give a damn about justice.

[@user-tb9cl2my6i]

Light didn’t manipulate missa she came looking for him willingly I hate how people don’t wanna hold her accountable for what she did I don’t blame him if you can get someone who’s gonna be devoted to you and wants to be used you use them

[@Axel-ye8tt]

Misa was begging to be taken advantage emotionally

[@kevintanza6968]

@@user-tb9cl2my6i "I had to punch her. She deserved it."

[@kevintanza6968]

@@Axel-ye8tt Sure, because that justifies doing it.

[@user-tb9cl2my6i]

@@kevintanza6968this is even a real life problem people need to take accountability she chased him down and asked him to take advantage and she was willing to do whatever he told her to do he didn’t make her do it she chose to this is also a thing in real life where women aren’t held accountable and always make up the excuse oh I was manipulated missa chose her path I like her as a ride or die character but I don’t feel sorry for her 1 but because she knew what it was deep down

[@thegrandwombat8797]

Even a cursory understanding of criminology and the sociological causes of crime makes Kira's plan blatantly useless. His approach rests on two faulty assumptions - that crime is done by a distinct set of bad people known as criminals, and that the more brutal the consequences for being caught for a crime, the less people will do it. Neither of these are true, and we have decades of evidence to back this up. Is it technically possible you could see a temporary decrease in certain kinds of crime with a mysterious figure like Kira joining the scene? Maybe, but because his approach doesn't address any of the causes or line up with any effective ways of reducing crime, it would be a temporary dip at best. In some ways, his approach was laughably bad. It was fully dependent on existing law enforcement work to categorize and identify criminality, meaning its only use was in superseding courts, judges, any kind of due process or other procedural factors to execute either suspects, people who have already been arrested, or convicted people. Does anyone think that's an improvement? Best case scenario here is vigilante justice against a crime Light personally sees in progress, but there are real reasons vigilantism is highly illegal - it's more harmful than good. We already have the capacity to kill everyone in jail awaiting trial, or to decide to give the death penalty on every conviction without a magical book. We could replace police with an assassin squad if we really wanted to replicate Kira's approach 1:1. We don't do any of that because it would be a terrible and inhumane idea that would not only kill countless innocent people, but also wouldn't solve anything. The idea that one guy with limited information and no accountability could implement this idea so well that it would actually be good is unserious at best. What you would likely see is even people with disadvantaged backgrounds who might have limited incidents of minor, largely victimless crimes like shoplifting avoiding any public institution that would record their information, like hospitals, and potentially institutions like the DMV because if your information is public, you can be killed. System avoidance is a big problem that already exists alongside surveillance, and due to locking people out of legitimate institutions, can actually increase crime because criminal activity does not require formal legal documentation. As such, people who have one potential run in with legal trouble can find themselves trapped in a downward spiral, a much higher risk if you replace our court system with a vengeful death god that relies on bureaucracy to kill. Death note bends a lot of reality to make a dramatic story, but the impacts he takes credit for have no chance of happening in the real world. It's one of my few disappointments with Death Note, it asks an interesting question but doesn't really engage with it on a significant level. It's still a good show about the contest of minds between very intelligent people, but the impacts of Light's actions are only such an afterthought because not much attention was given to exploring what they would actually look like from what he was doing. If Death Note was more interested in exploring the question the video poses, and did so with a similar level of attention the existing story has to detail and plans, Kira's "New World" wouldn't look nearly so impressive.

[@Joy_inc]

this is an aweful take, your creating a false dichotomy of if L was bad then light must be good, which is untrue, also objectively, no matter what i feel killing is wrong, but that is my opinion, also in a pretty cut and dry way Light is evil

[@KatoBeyond]

I don't recall saying L was bad in this video

[@aegiskcc]

I really wonder why death sentence has been deleted in most developed countries then

[@LibertarianLeninistRants]

I'd say Light/Kira is not opposed to the status quo, he is just for the extremification of it. Because what are the ideals of Light? It's the same ideals that his father has, that the Japanese Police already has: Crime has to be punished. Criminals have to be persecuted. Brutal methods when it comes to stopping criminals is justified. Light just has a better tool to implement this ideology, in fact he implements it to a stronger degree than the police itself did. But the ideals he inherited from his father and his conditioning as a family-member of a police agent. One can see that also when he mentions or thinks about targeting "lazy" people next. Just a continuation of the status quo: The poor are poor because they are lazy. Poverty doesn't create crime, its the individual's choices. There is no structural changes that are necessary, the structures we have (punishment) is enough to deter crime, don't ever question that...and if that actually doesn't get rid of crime, well then you just have to increase the punishment. Which is exactly what Kira does.

[@KatoBeyond]

There are some interesting points here, but ultimately because he was interrupted we don't know how much societal change Light intended to enact when he had gotten rid of his obstacles. It seemed like he may have wanted to make Kira a governing force, or maybe not

[@LibertarianLeninistRants]

@@KatoBeyond Even if he wanted to make Kira a governing force, the Ideals he portrayed were all already there, beneath the surface and in the minds of police and the politicians who implemented politics that increased punishment, took away social security nets and so on

[@thermophile1695]

You forget that people would post uncorroborated stories of crimes and Kira would act on them, allowing false accusations to get Kira to kill people. I was on the fence about Kira for a long time, but as someone who has been wringfully accused over a personal grudge, i might be dead if Kira was real and active.

[@KatoBeyond]

I did actually mention Kira's innocent victims but there's no mention of Light actually killing people who were posted about on those Kira forums

[@thermophile1695]

@@KatoBeyond Wasn't it stated that the police were hiding info so he had to use the forums?

[@KatoBeyond]

@@thermophile1695 I think you may be recalling a scene where Light was speaking hypothetically about what would happen if the police suppressed that info. There was also a scene where L went over the same hypothetical, but they never actually did it

[@thermophile1695]

@@KatoBeyond Ah, okay. Nevermind.

[@smthsmthsmthsmth]

Light is basically the government. I mean, is there any difference? Nigh infinite power, and a singular entity.

[@hectorlackless]

So in an utilitarian mindset light is the "good guy"? Yeah figured that much, the world alredy is a fked up place, having a quady divine way of punishing the wicked could be useful even if it is not 100% moral but I admit light is most likely not the best person to have this power

[@TheNamelessSaiyan]

If you kill, you are a criminal. Period end. It's not that hard to understand.

[@chancemitchell4147]

You wanna do good in the world? Take up a social service job. Create policy that make sure kids can eat and Have access to health care. Challenge the structural issues that perpetuate the need for crime. One person being judge, jury, and executioner is psychotic.

[@zhenia2511]

Light Yagami is the retributive system of justice ad absurdum. I can see the appeal of his ideological stance if you believe that combating crime is about punishment of wrongdoings, but , personally, I think restorative justice is far more important.

[@diegorojas8959]

The problem with the morality of Light is that he was always a narcissist, any point that he could have made in favor of his goal is lost when he stars killing law enforcement, essentially good people just doing their job and gloatting in their faces after the fact, Light was never seeking justice is was about him being better than the rest and elevating himself to the status of god.

[@thegrandwombat8797]

The arc where he forgets he's Kira and instantly turns against Kira's actions is proof enough that his sense of justice only allowed for any of the actions he took because he was the one doing them.

[@Zero-ef4sc]

I don't see how him being a narcissist or wanting to be god or killing those law enforcement is a bad thing compared to the world he offers. There are two choices: 1. A world without Light as god 2. A world with Kira In the first scenario, the world stays the same. The world loses hundreds of thousands of lives per year to violent crimes and wars. In the 2nd scenario, hundreds of thousands more are saved than killed, no more wars and the world becomes a rather safe place. You get a god, but as long as you don't commit crimes, you're safe. Anyone who is thinking logically should know the 2nd option is a far better world for anyone who doesn't commit major crimes. Yes, you get some annoying things with Light as god. That's just how the world works no matter who rules it, you get good and bad things. You lose 1 good cop trying to catch Kira but you also lose 100 bad guys who would've killed 100 other good cops that Light would've never killed.

[@thegrandwombat8797]

@@Zero-ef4sc If we accept that framing, sure. I'd take a better world accidentally made by someone who was trying to benefit themselves over a worse world from well meaning actions. But there are so many reasons that Light's approach wouldn't fix anything. We know deterrence through punishment doesn't work, we know "getting rid of bad people" doesn't work, because that's not how crime or people work, and frankly Kira only has information already available to law enforcement - meaning that if we wanted to we could implement his plans in the real world by replacing our legal system by assassinating everyone who we think probably committed a crime - and there's a reason we don't do that. Kira's perspective is a real one that people, especially in positions of power, can fall into, especially when they convince themselves it's to improve the world. Ultimately, though, the only beneficiary would be Light himself.

[@Zero-ef4sc]

@@thegrandwombat8797 so what other solution do you have then? Just leaving it as is? We currently have no other solution that would work, even today, a whole 2 decades after Death Note. No one is saying Light's approach fixes those problems. The problem is that those problems won't be fixed even without Light. So either way, the problem isn't fixed, but Light's approach guarantees more people live than die. For every 1000 innocent people who may die due to Light's actions, 2000 or more are saved. How are you arguing that Light is the only beneficiary when thousands of more people don't lose their loved ones? When the world is now a safer place?

[@thegrandwombat8797]

@@Zero-ef4sc Other than killing everyone? Is that a real question? I mean, would you advocate for the government assassinating everyone suspected of a crime? Light only killed people existing institutions knew about, it's not like we don't have the technical ability to kill everyone in prison. The reason we don't is because it doesn't work. It wouldn't make more people live than die at all. A huge number of things reduce crime - which has gone down dramatically since the 90's around the world. Violent crime in the US is lower than it was 20 years ago - I just checked Pew Research, 2001 had about twice as much violent crime as 2021, even though at the time it was the lowest rate in a decade by far. The general trend is consistent with that, violent crime is going down. To stop crime among youth, genuinely education funding goes a long way, as well as putting money into neighborhoods to expand activities available to young people. Economic development as well - income inequality is the single biggest driver of crime. Gun legislation also provably lowers gun violence, whether you count suicides or not. Gang violence is more complicated, but often times their power derives from the drug war and the lack of formal institutions to protect people - a lot of communities that are over policed are also under served - meaning that people will get arrested for loitering, drug use, speeding or the like, but the police under respond to calls around theft, stopping violence, etc. The focus is on locking people up, not helping the problems people are facing. That makes joining a gang at times the only way to get meaningful protection, which is bad. Addressing those areas goes a long way. There's not an easy answer, crime doesn't seem likely to disappear any time soon, but things are steadily getting better, and we know what works - brutality against criminals is not the way it happens. Light never bothered to look into any of the causes of crime, or what stops it, no surprise his approach of killing everyone wouldn't work in the real world.

[@user-wn1im9ke7s]

It’s not right, to kill a person because you hate the actions they may do, he went from killing murderrers to people who were just trying to survive to killing to cover up his own crimes, the truth is, their is no way to eliminate evil, it will always be their, and he wasn’t even willing to die to do this, quite frankly I think light is embarrassing, killing for a fantasy of a new world made in his head, his death was embarrassing begging ryuk for mercy.

[@stogerat]

Bad take, the very concept of criminality is tied up with class, crime doesn't come from "bad people" it comes from sociological conditions, and Kira wasn't changing those conditions, just senselessly murdering the product of an environment he was reinforcing if anything. It also shows how he had intentions of becoming even more of a despot, killing those he deemed "too lazy" or unproductive, yet he never went around killing corporate boards of directors or corrupt district attorneys, etc.

[@stogerat]

The problem is that you're viewing the pre-kira crime rate as an immutable fact of life that can't be changed, or fixed, without some mass extrajudicial executions of broadcasted criminals and not as a byproduct of laws and structures in society. Maybe Light should have used his power to try and create a world where anyone who would otherwise feel a need to turn to crime could instead have legal access to housing, food and healthcare, etc

[@thegrandwombat8797]

100%, the fact that Light's plan was to "get rid of all the bad people" to fix crime makes it clear that Kira's approach was fundamentally flawed from the start.

[@Mahawww]

Truly based opinion.

[@kickflippro3]

There are fundamentally three types of people. Those who do good because it’s the right thing to do, those who do good because they fear the consequences and those who do whatever they want regardless of consequences. Killing off the latter would drastically decrease crime.

[@stogerat]

@@kickflippro3 that’s childish, people aren’t created in one of 3 cauldrons that determines their entire being, there aren’t just “3 types of people.” Society will keep producing criminals no matter how many of them you kill.

[@kliffi96]

I disagree with the point of the video. Yes Deathnote plays with the idea of light being a hero, the messiah or even a god. It provokes you to think about it while light displaying traits of being good, being evil, being a necessary evil etc. In the end deathnote answers the dilemma with light going completely mental during the finale of the show and thus reducing him to being just an insane mass murderer with a massive god complex.

[@KatoBeyond]

Continuing to play devil's advocate: If the show's conclusion was that Light wasn't a necessary evil, why not announce Kira's death? Why let people think he might still be out there if he's not a practical deterrent? It's true that moment reveals Light's deepest flaws. But I think Light could have just trying to point out the elephant in the room at his dying moments. None of his opponents had a plan to improve the world, only maintain the status quo

[@kliffi96]

​@@KatoBeyond thanks for taking the time to actually answer. KZbinr reacted to one of my long criticizing comments. That's new. What do I say now? Jokes aside I feel like it depends on the level we are talking about. Do we talk about being the hero of the story or do we talk about "if this was real life would light, his actions and the consequences of his actions be heroic?" I feel like the story itself makes a pretty clear point that even if he works "for the greater good" he lost track of what it means to be good and went down the path of an insane mass murderer thus being at best a failed hero. Not necessarily because he was stopped but because of what he has become. It's a pathetic and pitiful ending by choice. If you want to make it a "what if it was real life scenario" and get out of the way how the story portrayed his actions the problem becomes a lot more difficult. The moral dilemma presented is of course open to interpretation and the interpretation of the story which it subtlety delivers though the depiction is only one interpretation of many. My point is that the show itself does not portrait him as a hero overall with the finale being the clearest indicator of that. His "hero journey" failed. No happy end. And the death of Kira not being announced does not validate his actions. At least not the way I interpret it. I would argue that it purposely raises more questions than it answers. Was Kira actually a good influence on society by killing criminals or was it just the fear of consequences in general that reduced the crime rate? You could even say the morality of the action is completely open to interpretation since every kind of justice in deathnote is depicted as flawed. L, Mello and Neir are prime examples by being quite flawed and ruthless sometimes themselves. You could even argue it's a reference to religion and that it questions wether the fear of consequences without any consequences being directly visible is a good thing. If you actually read this essay of a KZbin comment you are madmen. Anyways thanks for being part of that discussion and taking the time to answer my comment. I always like structuring my thoughts by writing a comment and entering a discussion.

[@KatoBeyond]

@@kliffi96 Actually let me stop you right there, Near is perfect. Thanks for commenting, you're not the first one to be surprised that I read them all lol Let me say that I'm not trying to dismiss your interpretation of the series. On the contrary, I think it's perfectly valid. But it's only one interpretation of the intentions behind the events portrayed in the series. Death Note wouldn't be the only story where the hero failed in the end. From Icarus to Rocky, these protagonists are usually flawed and arrogant, they tend to undergo an arc where they taste success but ultimately fail. But really this video was just to challenge my own thinking as someone who has been vocally against Light in previous videos. I wanted to do that by retrospectively examining Light's presented reasons, his moral integrity, and his achievements in his world. I referred to Near's dismissal of Kira as the moral view because I wouldn't condone someone inspired to take the same actions as Light

[@lasa0031]

Not only is the resulted consequences of kiras actions highly speculative but the author himself says that light was evil. Light wasnt even killing specific free at large criminals, he was killing criminals who’d already been caught and convicted, basically judging himself people who have already been judged by the system.

[@KatoBeyond]

The author said Soichiro is the only good one, because he didn't use the Death Note at all

[@trashtale9660]

Not exactly. He killed several people who were just merely accused, were never actually tried, or were even found innocent of any wrongdoing. The man he killed in front of Raye Penber at the train station was stated directly by Light to have been ruled as not guilty due to lack of evidence, yet he killed him anyway. Or a lesser example would also be the killer of Misa's parents, who even if guilty, was widely believed to be innocent by the public at the time Light killed him, all without the trial concluded. There are others, but those two stick out off the top of my head.

[@garrymoloney9570]

okay, here's my 2 cents. I think light was wrong because if his approach, he targeted crime at a surface level, people rarely commit crime because they enjoy it most commit crimes out of desperation. If light really wanted to make the world a better place he could have targeted the people who created the circumstances were people have to commit crimes, take out the billionaires and use the death note to make them donate all their money to improve the economic circumstances in areas with high crime rates and just watch the crime rate drop, he wouldn't even need to pass on the death note after he dies since the money they were hoarding will last decades. Plus he'd have to kill way fewer people so he might have an easier time hiding that he's doing anything.

[@zer0w0lf94]

At one point, he actually does mention that the First Kira didn’t kill people who committed crimes under extensible circumstances.

[@JaredQueiroz]

A Hero? No --Light Kills A true hero must never kill. (accidents or dilemas doesn't count) . . An anti-Hero? No --Light Kills for both pleasure and fear. A true Anti-Hero must never kill for selfish reasons . (revenge doesn't count as a selfish reason) . . A Villain?? No --Light genuinely wants to make the world a better place. A true villain must never do good. (Doing good while pretending doesn't count) . . An Anti-Villain? YES --Light is a true Anti-Villain. Even if one never need to kill, achieving altruism doesn't turn them into heros, since Anti-Villains must lack empathy.

[@yourfriendlyneighbourhoods4527]

So basically A hero does good stuff for good reasons A villain does bad stuff for bad reasons An Anti hero does Bad stuff for Good reasons And an Anti villain does Good stuff for Bad reasons

[@kael7953]

both of you are wrong

[@yourfriendlyneighbourhoods4527]

@@kael7953 how dare you say that a genius like me is wrong? I have an iq of over 15 000, and i have beaten dinousaursu while u weeren't even born my child >:C

[@JaredQueiroz]

​@@yourfriendlyneighbourhoods4527 The part where you say: ""And an Anti villain does Good stuff for Bad reasons"" No, Light has good reasons - make the world a better place. To achieve this he does bad things. -killing inocents in the process.... . . Is more like that: A hero has the duty save Guiltys and Innocents A Villain has the duty to harm Guiltys and Innocents An anti-Hero has a duty to harm Guiltys, but save the Innocents An anti-villain has a duty to harm the Guiltys, period......

[@JaredQueiroz]

​@@kael7953 Oh, you're right... Even tho you haven't presented any argument whatsoever... There's something about that inert white stripe in your profile picture that's very convincing.....

[@lightspaceman5064]

You can literally devils advocate for anything. It’s how people justify their actions no matter how cruel. Light having to kill even one innocent person creates a logical fallacy that can really only be explained away from a religious “mysterious ways” perspective. Light’s just a serial killer. And like any serial killer he has a hyper fixation on a group. Death Notes story wouldn’t even change if it was prostitutes or men who look like his dad instead. You also highlighted Death Notes major flaw. It never does the hard work of characterizing any of the characters Light kills outside of his perspective. You can either see them all as irredeemable. Or like every 5th guy he killed was wrongfully imprisoned. The thing is that I don’t think the moral implications were ever meant to matter that much. It’s about a mind battle between two J-pop boy band members.

[@SwungCookie]

Exactly. As much as I like discussing death note, the writer was completely uninterested in the moral quandaries of the death note.

[@KatoBeyond]

@@SwungCookie We don't have to discuss things the way the author wants

[@ciarangallagher9330]

​@@SwungCookie no he wasnt lol, whether Kira was right or wrong was a core point of the series, especially the second act Thematically L lost because he was "also a monster", Near won because he was innocent

[@ciarangallagher9330]

Nah see the villain works very hard over a long period of time to realise their ambition, while the hero has some asspull that let's them shit on all that work, Nears clearly the hero

[@KatoBeyond]

Light used a Shinigami to kill L. What was the asspull Near had? Making a fake notebook really fast?

[@ciarangallagher9330]

@@KatoBeyond you mean he executed his original plan after getting through the yotsuba arc? Near literally said he got lucky

[@KatoBeyond]

@@ciarangallagher9330 Light said he got lucky multiple times

[@ciarangallagher9330]

@@KatoBeyond sure like with Naomi they introduced a plot point and didn't let it interfere with the rest of the story because "phew good luck", or light "happening" to wear the watch he always does when he got his memories back, big difference between that and the final confrontation where the two main brains are scheming being won not because of intelligent planning but a lucky break. I'd love the way Near won if it was because Light was too arrogant to trust Mikami and made an unnecessary move, but it was the other way around, wasn't even Light that lost the whole thing it was Mikami. The only good part about it was the whole "If not for Mello we'd have lost, together we surpass L" idea, thats beautiful (power of friendship trope btw), lazily written though considering Light had someone very close to his level on his side too now who only screwed it up for him, spat right on that teamwork makes the dreamwork idea they were trying to show. Oh well though, guess that doesn't apply for the villain

[@-Scrapper-]

"Greater good bad mwahaha" 🤓

[@MrEffectfilms]

Light is my favorite character but no he's absolutely NOT a hero. This is the equivalent of pointing a gun at everyone on earth and saying the person holding that gun a hero, they wouldn't be. No one would be doing the right thing or being good people because it's right but because they are afraid of being murdered if they don't. A good person who does good because it's good is much better than an evil person being forced to do good at the threat of death because that person is still evil they just aren't allowed to show it. It would be far better to help rehabilitate these criminals and evil people so they can genuinely be good people and not just be forced to pretend to be one. I've never believed in the ends justify the means and this show is a prime example as to why, because it's not worth it in the end.

[@spaceaxolotl6196]

Lights motives were selfish, he wanted to make a better world so that he could be the god of that would not so that the world could be a better place

[@kael7953]

You misinterpreted

[@spaceaxolotl6196]

@@kael7953 there was nothing to misinterpret there, he literally says he wants to become the god of the "new world" he views himself as better than most people in society therefore he thinks he can judge people and sentence them to death and he kills many innocent people along the way to further his cause not to mention he also selfishly manipulates his girlfriend, his family and his task force and actively takes advantage of people. His actions are indefensible and selfish.

[@eglantinepapeau1582]

He is definitely not the hero nor a God

[@appleboss9742]

Light was a anti villian

[@stovespiegel]

Anime fans need to stay far far away from any kind of political analysis lmao

[@KatoBeyond]

This video is Death Note analysis, not political analysis

[@stovespiegel]

@@KatoBeyond The fact that you don't realize these things arent mutually exclusive is concerning

[@troy6646]

It's a no from me, it's giving eren Jager

[@iansobroza]

Nah, he thought people to be beneath him, he often mistreated and manipulated feelings even of misa, who loved him. He had the upper hand and still played dirty, and he had PLEASURE with it, and the insulting, belittling, provoking... He wasn't ever doing for the sake of a greater good. He was doing it for his vanity, self image and power. For an "ideal"' world for him when the greater good was a second place priority to maintain his facade. He wasn't ever willing to sacrifice half his lifespan, his life, or his freedom for his ideals. He loved the IMAGE of him more than himself and it shows multiple times. He's about vanity and control with god and superiority complex. He's not special, the death note is. Like near said, he's a serial killer, nothing more, nothing less. A fanatic one at that.

[@saidi7975]

Absolutely. Dude flies waaay too quick in arrogant dickhead territory to have any debate about his morality to be made...

[@code.c.]

Light's sense of justice was radical and misplaced, and he only went as far as he did because of his god complex. “The only ones who should kill, are thse who are prepared to be killed.” And Light was certaintly not prepared for death, in any capacity. He was, unequivocally, a bad *person*. But that doesn't make him a bad *force* on society; he taints his own hands in order to defeat a greater evil that justice cannot prevail over. “You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty" and "results are all that matter in the end."

[@zer0w0lf94]

I like the use of Code Geass quotes! They really show how Lelouch contrasts Light.

[@AnnaMaria-mt5yf]

Is it true that "justice cannot prevail over" someone who is already sentenced, though?

[@katakanatabro2048]

Bruh L

[@johnbzn6508]

Yeah, but the whole series started because he was bored and then after that he just lost

[@JaxonHaxon]

I think the reason Code Geass is better than Death Note (and why I'm subbed to your channel) is the anti-thesis to this video; the reason is Lelouch. He's the Hero ~that people think who think Light is the Hero is~. Lelouch's Zero or Mask of the Demon is effectively Kira. What makes Lelouch different is he is making Nunnaly's world However; Light is making Schneizel's World. A king, a god, a strong ruler than enforces justice through an iron fist rather than a kinder gentler world. Light is an anti-hero through and through, Lelouch is a hero who portrays himself as an anti-hero to both the audience and the world until his final breath. There are many Heroes in Death Note, unfortunately Light is not one of them.

[@kingace6186]

I agree. One correction, Light is a villain that is masquerading as an anti-hero*.

[@thegrandwombat8797]

That's a really good way of describing it. Lelouch does some very morally questionable things, but I'd definitely say his goal at the end is more compelling than Light's totalitarian theocracy idea.

[@KatoBeyond]

This comment is about to make me drop the mask

[@JaxonHaxon]

@@KatoBeyond thanks man, but I have no idea what that's supposed to mean rn 😅

[@lobob2000]

Aside from him deciding he could either choose people based on his own personal ethics or blindly believing what’s posted on the media, I think most people agree that killing a person isn’t counteracted by saving someone, there’s not an equivalent exchange between lives so it so it can’t be solved looking at the numbers. “This doctor saved 10 people and only murdered 2” doesn’t really work out

[@noztk]

Light is also responsible for Higushi"if i remeber his name correctly" to continue punish criminals and being allowed to use the Death note to kill anyone he likes as a "reward" he took advantage of every single girl he dated. enjoyed killing innoncent people, naomi for example. even killed a god of death by exploiting its feelings. he bends his mindset as he sees fit. hes a hypocrite at best and he also did stated he will punish the socially weak in the future.

[@Charsept]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I'll leave it at this: I don't think I could be friends with someone that thinks Light was the good guy.

[@mikehudgins8545]

Lights standard of proof was not high enough. It’s not like he was personally investing each crime and confirming without a doubt the person did it. Every single killing is unjustified unless he personally knows for a fact they did it. Even then it’s not up to him to decide if a crime is punishable by death. That’s why we have huge groups of people collectively make those laws and decisions.

[@theknightmare2796]

I also think light is the protagonist of the show lots of people doesn't understand L is actually antagonist of the show

[@N313GrayFox]

Protagonist doesn't = "good person". It just means it's the character we're following in the story. And antagonist basically just means: "the character in the protagonist's way". A protagonist can still be a "villain", because a villain is just "a character who does evil or immoral things".

[@zachryder3150]

Bruh, L dies halfway through the show, who is so confused as to think L is the protagonist?

[@thegrandwombat8797]

@@zachryder3150 He's clearly the comedic relief sidekick

[@donbeedrill]

kills a bunch of goons instead of targeting the 1% he's a glorified cop