Why MDF is no good. Replacing water damaged window cill

Why MDF is no good. Replacing water damaged window cill

[@adriansandry2783]

Good job! By the way, I have adopted your use of foam to fill gaps and diluted PVA on all raked out masonary cracks before filling, and with great results. I liked the way you used PVA here to seal the dust. Good tip. Thanks for yet another good tutorial video.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Adrian Sandry Thanks.

[@DavetheIV]

Thanks for sharing your experience & accrued knowledge. Been doing up an old flat with my Son for the past 5 months & have viewed lots of your uploads used lots of your trade tips & made use of lots of foam to fill & fix, Acrylic Bin primer & Acrylic undercoat & gloss & have been pleased with the results. Nearing the end of the job thankfully but he's now got decorative finishes that'll not yellow in time to come. All done with your demo's used to guide! Brilliant channel thank you.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks very much and glad we could help.

[@derekmccabe2790]

Hi there from NZ keep up the great wrk I to have started using the spray foam for filling large gaps works well keep them videos coming it's always good to see how others painters wrk .

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Derek mccabe Thanks, it was always a problem filling large holes. The amount of jobs that I've pull old news paper or plastic out of holes that someone has tried back filling with.

[@tonyalways7174]

I wonder if the customer realises what a meticulous thorough job you did. Excellent work

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you.

[@Mike-ql4sz]

Wow! Such a perfect rebuild job! Congrats!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you.

[@Brad-cq5wr]

yea, great work and attention to detail. I appreciate that you took care right up to the very end.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you, my work means a lot to me.

[@MarcGray1990]

Great video again matey! You both have a wealth of knowledge, I’ve done this in the past as I work on council properties a lot and this type of thing crops up every now and again. A faff but gets you out of trouble sometimes! If only they had half a roll of paper tucked away in the loft eh!? Take care, marc.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Marc Gray thanks, and always worth keeping them end rolls.

[@futurenewmedia]

Great job and excellent explanation 👍 I’ve got a job exactly the same to do over the weekend again with a rubbish new build MDF cill 🙄

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you.

[@wez9943]

I am in the process of buying a 1930’s semi. From your videos I have learnt there is not much that can’t be resolved with expanding foam and PVA ! I will be stocking up 👍🏻

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Yes, you can restore a lot. Thanks

[@Lonesome_walker]

Great work and thoroughly enjoy watching your videos, as I'm an amateur picking up some lovely tips. Long live expanding foam.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks.

[@Lonesome_walker]

If you don't mind me asking, what filler do you use? ( not two part).

[@Munkfish-TV]

That's some good work right there. Thanks for this, great to see it done well.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you

[@madeinuk68]

You remind me of myself. You are very thorough.I love your videos,and you have taught me a few things. I am always willing to learn from guys like yourself,and I think you are very generous and brave,to share your knowledge on the internet. There are so many people that think that they know better,and frustratingly I have occasionally worked with them. Cutting corners,to save time,and using cheap materials. That is why I like to work on my own. I think I could happily work along side you though. Keep the videos coming,it beats watching most of the rubbish on the tv these days.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you very mush.

[@madeinuk68]

Painting and Decorating You are very welcome.

[@sammywrigley1157]

+1 what he said. A pleasure to watch someone with so much ATD

[@blackwolfgaming1975]

Nice work and effort! Off to fit a bay window sill and sort all the edges on the sill and window. Wish me luck

[@ianthompson9058]

That actually worked out really well. Great repair

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you..

[@twhite6010]

Hi, I really like your vids and watched with attention - amazing! and so easy to follow. Thought I'd tackle holes in plaster after rads fitted with expanding foam following your method. I bought foam and watched and refreshed the learning. Got to say, chaos reigned. Suggest- to please stress to audience who aren't skilled at it, wear product's suggested PPE and don't be tempted not to: goggles, full length sleeves and a gas mask or at least FFP3 and gloves (supplied in lid in some). I had windows open in a ground floor but it burned my throat a bit through my FFP3 mask, and I was really lucky with my eye protection - it sprays back particles of foam so easily! That could be a H&S disaster for folks. This man is a real master, but beware folks...years of familiarity make a difference to the outcome. Put on all your PPE, press gently, tiny pressure, upside down canister only, and go slow! Afterward, can't cut the foam with the smoothing flat-edge like you do...resorted in the end to a detached hack saw blade as flexible. Also, when you read the cautions, its a scary product to use,.. so many are.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you, everyone should read labels on products. We do give advice to open windows and wear a mask and gloves.

[@roncooke2188]

Yes thank you and much easier for me, will be made and fitted today

[@richardjones3112]

Same problem in my house,going to take all the mdf sills out.Great video.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Horrible stuff MDF

[@pauldavies7251]

It's not the MDF'S fault that you have damp issues in your house 🙈

[@ianhenson724]

Love jobs like this. I had many filler blades as i call them and in the end i cut 3 of the small ones in half so as to get the filler on in the smallest places and it worked.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Anything to get the job perfect.. thanks

[@zir786]

extremely high quality workmanship

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you.

[@kevinhale6231]

Excellent 1st class repair !

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you.

[@mick947]

Utter quality, what a craftsman!

[@andyanderson3898]

Good job replacing the cill!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Andy Anderson Thanks.

[@fielding68]

Great job.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks.

[@davidbaranyi6743]

Top job mate.

[@boofuls]

Great video very thorough,could you have primed the wood b4 fitting 🤔

[@TheMrKBG]

Expanding foam, the way it was used in this video, is a complete waste of time. Foam will NEVER give you a water tight seal and will provide no protection against water ingress. The entire fault, as you rightly pointed out, was due to the shoddy fit of the windows and sealant. Cut away external sealant and replace, properly, from the outside, then there will be no further leaks. Nice finish inside though, once the sill was replaced. PS You can use MDF on sills like that but, they're best treated with yacht varnish first, on all surfaces, then prime and finish. I've built finishing boards for fitting underneath raised shower trays using MDF, in this way, and it works a treat, provided you seal it properly first.

[@ianthompson9058]

I fitted a kitchen for my old man and did the window board just above a sink and said use popper wood and oil based paint. He is always right so made me do mdf and he painted it with water based paint as according to him "I've been to Toyota factory and they use water based paints on there cars" you can imagine what happened and indeed my smug response. Mdf is great in some places. I love to use mdf skirting over pine as it's so uniform but it has its limits. Bit of water and it blows like a grenade

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Yes and MDF is not green... wood is better less effort in production.

[@mysticmeadowshomestead6209]

That was an excellent job!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you.

[@mysticmeadowshomestead6209]

I have liked, thumbs upped, subscribed and am sharing. Wonderful video!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

@@mysticmeadowshomestead6209 Thank you.

[@mckeon1960]

Can you repair mdf,I have water damage around the pillars in a belfast sink and beside dishwasher to expensive to replace thanks

[@mikehorne673]

How did you get the old window sill out!

[@George-uq6yf]

Can you make a video of you removing the window sill?

[@markosbientos9287]

well done to get as good a finish from that!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

markos bientos Thanks.

[@mrfix-it2728]

This is called ballooned MDF water expands the the board, you can treat the MDF with a solvent primer sealer to help prevent this but joiners very rarely do.

[@custardo1985]

I’ve just stripped plaster of single skin bay window to add insulation and in doing so removed the tiny plastic windowsill, on doing so noticed I too can see the outside world a bit between the brick and window frame, did you just use expanding foam to seal it?

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Actually sealed it from both sides, foam on the in and silicone on the out. Thanks

[@MS-yy2dh]

Great work

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you.

[@tyler4164]

Ha ha ha as soon as i saw the day light i knew you would say expanding foam. Your obsessed with the stuff😂😂😂

[@allthingsdrumssimonpicken5420]

I knew the foam wasn't far away

[@BillsAllotmentDiary]

Done that with the paper, water and filler myself on many occasions good job done buddy. That MDF is shit. BTW whats your tips for a white gloss that actually stays white? Ive been using water based gloss and undercoat recently but the durability of it leaves a lot to be desired and can I hell as like get the brush marks out of it. Its like painting with emulsion. So you got any tips seeing as we don't have lead paints anymore lol

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks,, and not really like you say difficult with water based... oil satinwood stays white longer... and some of the water based satin's are a better finish.

[@CHANGEMYPLEATOGUILTY]

Splendid 😎

[@johnal4560]

Hi nice video what is the name of that can use used under the sill ? thx

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks Soudal expanding foam

[@johnwilson230]

Did you back prime the cill before fixing cill other problems could come back..

[@andrewhunt4532]

Good work brilliant idea

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks.

[@davidskeeterskeeter1835]

Top job fella,!👍

[@PaintingandDecorating]

David Boulton Thanks.

[@stephenpeacock2627]

I find it’s easier to use your finger to smooth filler into the fine cracks, edges like you do

[@roncooke2188]

good video i am about to make sill, should i do this before plaster guy or after plastering

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Better to fit before hand.

[@MyleeChase]

I’ve pulled of an old tile window sill to replace with wood. It’s been filled but I’ve been left to put the sill on myself which is how I’ve come across your video, did you just stick it in with no nails glue? The one bit I wanted to see wasn’t shown!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Yes I used liquid no nails the old one was nailed in. You can drill and screw.

[@azza1793]

Considering that the water damage is at both ends i would assume that the water is running along the sill and in at the ends where maybe there is no mastic or it has failed, can’t imagine much rain getting in under the sill.

[@dmc6807]

MR MDF is perfectly suitable for a window board as long as its correctly installed and edges sealed. Unfortunately in this case it wasn't. The window board has a tongue on the back edge which sits on the upvc lip you can see just above the calk line. This would have reduced or even eliminated contact with the blocks. Why on earth are home owners using amature UPVC window companies with fitters totally unqualified. There are good chippies out there willing to do the job correctly. You did a good remedial job mate but the cowboy that did the original fit should know better.

[@ratchriat1716]

what a fantastic finish whats the name off the wood filler did you use and primer and gloss brand loved the video.

[@bentaylor2086]

Class👍🏻

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Ratch Riat Thanks. It was Ronseal wood filler B.I.N. primer and Dulux gloss.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks.

[@richupson1319]

At the beginning you said why do they use mdf like this is houses. Firstly it’s cheap, secondly look how long it took up to replace it, I know guys who are expected to fit window boards in around 15 mins and replace one in 30. Unfortunately we live in a throw away society where cost is more important than quality not to mention that the younger generation don’t have the skills to work with real wood!

[@scorpionnetherrealm8937]

Good job

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks.

[@pcno2832]

MDF seems particularly unsuited to window sills. It's probably fine for frames and moldings, but even if the window doesn't leak, just the rain splashing through normally would destroy it. I try to replace window sills with marble or Corian.

[@patfromamboy]

Moldings in my house are expanded and ruined in the bathrooms and kitchen. It happened in the first year. Window sills had problems where water was allowed in through nail holes into the MDF and expanded in the first year too. I was angry that they would use such temporary material.

[@theMoporter]

If the wallpaper is stuck to the plaster, how would you remove the wallpaper later without ripping up the wall?

[@PaintingandDecorating]

You can usually always remove the wallpaper slowly. Thanks

[@ADAMETB]

I'm going to do mine tomororw, I have a deep gap from the wall to the internal wall, would be worth filling this in too?

[@PaintingandDecorating]

No leave the gap this is your cavity. This keeps your interior wall dry and allows air to circulate.

[@ADAMETB]

@@PaintingandDecorating Fab thanks so much!

[@tomalex4806]

That’s why you use UPVC?

[@AlMai222]

Would you argue that it’s a good idea to put mdf in something like apartments or complexes so that IF there is water leakage you can detect it faster with the MDF whereas with wood it would keep leaking for a long time before you know there’s a leak?

[@PaintingandDecorating]

No any leak will show, better to have something that will dry out. Better that than having to replace.

[@PsBandofMen]

Great job. Mdf is pure crap

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thanks.

[@scorpionnetherrealm8937]

Im a bit baffled would the no nails glue not have worked to stick the paper again?

[@PaintingandDecorating]

No, not really I was filling the plaster this was done to speed the job up, filling plaster as well as filling in all the gaps in the paper. Your not waiting for plaster to dry then stick paper back then filling whats gaps remain.

[@TheTireDepot]

Here in the states, most homes have trim work which is mdf. Pure garbage

[@2010gtoner]

its pure crap. not fit for purpose.

[@iamtheoneandonly9361]

I was always under the impression that MDF wasn't used in the states due to the potentially carcinogenic fumes released when it is cut?

[@nathanielbolden5053]

AGREED!!!

[@HashMeister]

What if the MDF is double or triple primed and sealed with Zinsser BIN or similar? Will this seal and protect the MDF window board from water damage ?

[@PaintingandDecorating]

not really water will damage almost anything given time.. thanks

[@HashMeister]

@@PaintingandDecorating hmm yeah I suppose. I double coated Moisture Resistant MDF window boards with Zinsser BIN last year only to find they've swollen. I believe condensation build up and pooling down from window frame over these past months and eventually penetrating the primed and sealed MDF somehow has caused this swelling in my case as opposed to penetrating moisture from outside.

[@Goorney]

Great job replacing the useless MDF with a piece of good quality wood.

[@smurfman691]

I recently caught on to your channel, and having done my fair share of filling/decorating and all round work, I watch your vids and laugh at your foam and pva mix techniques.. What a waste of time. But then I see your finished results, and makes me realise what I thought I knew ain't squat! The time and effort you guys put into even the smallest of cracks and minor repairs (but most annoying to fix properly ) just goes to show... If you're going to do it... Do it right! Well done lads... But maybe time to invest a better camera and some lighting?

[@ianthompson9058]

A lot better. But if of eased the edges of cill just to soften it a bit and keep it in keeping with other. At least quarter round. My oppologies I spoke to soon m8

[@Tephnos]

Not surprised the MDF blew. MDF is fine if moisture resistant + sealed and painted on all sides before installation. This wasn't at the bottom, and hence the water blew it.

[@MrRyanisfree]

Wow

[@pauldavies7251]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using MDF especially as an interior joinery material, you need 2 get to the root cause of the issue IE poorly fitted windows, no Dpc between brick and window, no silicone sealant underneath pvc cill,

[@annashiegl]

What's dpc please?

[@pauldavies7251]

@@annashiegl damp proof course

[@annashiegl]

@@pauldavies7251 thanks.

[@patfromamboy]

There are a lot of things wrong with MDF. My new house had MDF problems in the first year. Paint popped up out of nail holes and allowed moisture to puff the MDF and ruin it. Molding expanded in bathrooms and the kitchen and is ruined. It is terrible.

[@dave1secondago]

i would never buy a new build house , cheap skate builders cutting corners mdf is like a sponge

[@stargateproductions]

We are painters here in Canada, and its the same here. Its the simple things that are often over looked. We did a job where the finish carpenter sub-contractor installed all the doors, trim and windowsills. Homes are not perfectly square, he used all 45 degree cuts and no back-blocking to square it up. Results were that there was large gaps in the crown moldings and trim. He still got paid, owner even said he did a good job. We as painters should not have to fill and fix mistakes that could have been avoided. MDF is crap but its cheap, that's why its used.

[@2010gtoner]

I'm with you there mate, Glue & Sawdust come on, It is a topic that gets my goat up :)

[@PowerYourMind100]

Great job, but how long did it take him, seemed like 3 days for changing a piece of wood, what could you possibly charge to justify that???? surely you wouldn't be able to charge more than £60-£70 quid?? for 3 days work!!!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

It, was about 2 hrs each day... you have to allow fillers to dry. but some small jobs become over time.

[@peteramond3358]

Topman

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Peter Amond Thanks.

[@alisonhowells1780]

Couldn't see any DPM

[@stargateproductions]

This is why real wood is better, it can absorb moisture and release it easily. MDF just swells and deteriorates. We always recommend a wood like pine for trim near windows!

[@MKRM27]

stargateproductions Wood or MDF, it should be painted well enough to stop water ingress. It’s not a wood v MDF point, it’s a well v badly painted point.

[@brianfield792]

stargateproductions your right mate,mdf is rubbish stuff,even painted, it gets damp ,it warps,soaks up moisture.would never use,

[@johnsullivan395]

Do you ever go back and revisit your old jobs? I bet that knotty bit of pine has knot stains all over it within 12 months.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

On this job it's fine, I know this because it's a relative. But I do know it can be very difficult to deal with knots, so a belt and braces approach is best. Two to three coats of knotting and coated with B.I.N.

[@lebu5825]

Where have you been all my life!!!!!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Under a rock.. but I've seen the light.. lol hope you're finding our videos helpful.

[@magnuswootton7368]

is it termites, or is it MDF!

[@mandyg.3004]

Have you not thought of going into " Restoration work" ? Plenty of old Victorian buildings needing someone as good as you and the money would be huge.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

To be honest no, love the work I do. Thank you.

[@benmjt]

Would need a completely different approach. Can't really use any of these materials.

[@MrBazza72]

#craftsman

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Cheers mate..

[@jayw4625]

Would have been better to see the job from start to finish instead of stop N start and see you take out the window sill

[@kickpublishing]

That isnt a window sill - its a window board, the sill is on the outside

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Your half correct as they have different names depending what you read... my decorating manual describes two windows and calls one a window board and an other a cill and they are both external views.. Cill is an old term in the building trade in the UK better known as sill.. A window sill is the bottom piece of trim, or the ledge at the bottom of the window. ... Sills are part of the window trim, which also includes the head casing, side jambs and the apron, the piece attached to the wall beneath the sill.

[@sammywrigley1157]

Pedantic tw@. Grow up clearly got nothing better to do than attempt to criticise a fantastic tradesman helping out the DIY guys.

[@ffsneednamealltaken]

This isn’t wood this is M D F.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Who said it was wood... MDF replaced with wood.

[@p39483]

Probably condensation not a leak.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

no it was a leak as shown in the video.. you must have missed it.

[@simonpoole1492]

May well have been a gaps under the window but unlikely that rain water would penetrate. Condensation far far more likely.

[@shivettsj]

Seems to me the window is the problem.

[@pauldavies7251]

Exactly

[@bum-edwhu66]

not a fan of mdf, however whoever fitted that window was useless, brickwork ain't up to much either

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Totally agree

[@dkaloupis75]

6 14 there is 1 inch gap between window frame and cill,20 seconds later and all of a sudden the gap is gone by magic....yeah...you better keep it as secret mate...

[@PaintingandDecorating]

That was done on purpose in case of another leak.. filled with foam then powder filler.

[@OldManTony]

The original builder should have used moisture resistant MDF!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Yes and sealead correctly from the outside..

[@kbultray]

The price of moisture resistant MDF. Probably be cheaper to use Oak!

[@ianhenson724]

Whats wrong with video is you never showed the removing or the fitting of the actual window sill.

[@tyler4164]

Mdf is cheaper thats why its used!!!!

[@fungames24]

If MDF is used, you wouldn't need to mess about with knots. Also the MDF gives better warning on water intrusion. Not detecting water quickly will result in far more serious damage.

[@brianperkins2779]

MDF sucks!

[@PaintingandDecorating]

I agree ban the stuff.

[@mjberndt76]

If the MDF is a sure sign of a leak, I'd rather have that so I can fix it before the unseen damage gets worse.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

you would know if you had a leak if it was wood as well.. just wood is more forgiving.

[@MKRM27]

Complete nonsense. MR MDF is the perfect material for window sills.

[@brianfield792]

MKRM27 mdf is rubbish,

[@pauldavies7251]

Completely agree this guy talks a good game but my god this video was painful, expanding foam isn't waterproof for a start, "Quick hide the gaps"

[@CherDele]

Great job.

[@PaintingandDecorating]

Thank you.