Why metal music gatekeepers are important?

[@NoelRojasGtz]

Gatekeeping is needed for quality control

[@thatguyinaband6341]

to bad the production quality high pass filtering all guitars sounds like shit

[@NobleNoob356]

Perfectly said. Gatekeeping isn’t there to keep people away from metal. I want people to enjoy it. We just don’t want shit like deathcore to be labeled as equals.

[@Easun36]

Quality is subjective, though. It's more useful in an identitarian kind of way, if you catch my drift. As long as it doesn't turn into bullying, of course, which it sadly often does. Underground tryhardism is as lame as mainstream trendhopping.

[@Acursianlord]

Comics, movies, gaming, and table top gaming are perfect examples of why gatekeeping is necessary.

[@juri_xiii9977]

So true.

[@boneless4799]

Very true

[@665demondog]

Nah not really comics are less important than metal

[@Acursianlord]

@665demondog Spider-Man alone has more reach than any metal bands, and Marvel is pushing a version of him of every sexual preference and fake gender you can think of. That's just one example of the propaganda being pushed under the guise of tolerance. What's worse is comics was ground zero.

[@RautaMetal]

@Acursianlord Marvel is owned by Disney and they are there to make money. Can't use the same argument about bands that are not corporate-owned. Two very different things.

[@BillEco]

If you dont gatekeep yourself enough to not release boring mediocrity you deserve to be gatekept by others

[@RautaMetal]

Well said

[@guyincognito9919]

A very honest and genuine opinion. Good video.

[@RautaMetal]

Thanks

[@diegoborges3716]

I used to be against gatekeeping until I saw people who didn't understand my hobbies entering into it and trying to modify it to better fit their tastes.

[@turpasauna]

Well put, I bet this is what happened to many of us. Suddenly I had to explain, take a stance, whatever. It didn't matter I was doing it when the new crowd were still babies; they have absolutely no respect towards anyone or anything.

[@Theophonos]

Well said.

[@juri_xiii9977]

Metal-Underground needs "Gatekeeping"...!!! It's a quality control thing..

[@antimonos]

For some reason I thought you meant the channel Music of Destruction kzbin.infoUQKtO5PvPOk?si=XMS7YUhdKvklRZ8K I watch him but he is pretty unhinged.

[@TheTransylvanian]

Gatekeeping is definitely essential, it’s used to keep metal music the way it’s meant to be and to keep out all the cancel culture weaklings of today’s generation 🤘

[@denisn8336]

Gatekeeping is a necessity

[@naturalianoss]

All genres of music have gatekeeping and gatekeepers .Why is there an issue when metal music have it ??? Do we really have to pussify everything on this planet ???

[@Humanophage]

This seems to be more like quality control than gatekeeping. Gatekeeping usually refers to defining authenticity, policing community, and being blunt and opinionated about taste. Underground metal desperately needs gatekeeping to shield it from succumbing to mainstream pressures. E.g., you want black metal to stay misanthropic, hard to approach, true total art, and so on. But institutional pressures like concerts make musicians turn to music that is more fit for such venues - e.g., make it more rock-n-roll, more beer fun oriented, 80s nostalgic, etc. Or it may make them incorporate adjacent genres like punk because it appeals to some concert goers, which gradually transforms the base. These pressures are manifold, ranging from political acceptance to courting hipster critics to an honest desire to be true to yourself (but your personality just doesn't fit). The gatekeeper must identify individuals that engage in such slackening, and must signal that if you do that sort of thing, then you will be shamed and that you are not part of the club. Gradually, through mechanisms such as shame, the gatekeepers help maintain the subculture and keep it muscular. The gatekeeper must distinguish divergence which destroys the spirit of black metal from the divergence that does not harm it. E.g., something like Peste Noire or newer Burzum diverge musically, but this does not endanger the general ideological direction. Something like Liturgy or assorted "post-black" like Put' is fairly dangerous as it shifts the focus of black metal away from its core traits that are vulnerable to social pressures. These things can easily build up if not policed.

[@RautaMetal]

Well said.

[@zetsushoren]

thanks for this Jerry, this basically sums up my opinions on gatekeeping as well it all boils down to quality control, and when you have too many things to sift through, you'll be wasting so much time just digging through crap until you get to the really good ones if only more people shared this same outlook on gatekeeping instead of crying

[@RautaMetal]

Thanks for your words. Yes, cryiing is waste of time when one can attempt to fix or at very least enlighten people.

[@mortiusshrek8038]

Great video Rauta! Always love your content, and the thumbnail was hilarious lol! I think if people want to be gatekeepers, at least slide people into the good shit. If they just call people posers and walk away, that's like whatever in my opinion. If you atleast make some sort of an attempt to say, go for this not that, it is properly showing people what metal is REALLY about. That's my two cents. Keep up the amazing stuff!

[@RautaMetal]

Thanks! And yes, people are free to do anything they want.

[@TotalDESSSS]

Good takes on an important topic.

[@DahmerJ17]

Great preaching! We are old and this will not even be seen as a problem for future generations. They will adapt into it unfortunatley and not understand the difference.. And i feel sorry for them, but it's hard to stop progress. Even shitty progress. Cheers! 🍻

[@RobHellfire666]

Completely agree 💯

[@Weltschmerz1523]

I wholeheartedly agree with you and the almost all the comments below. While I do have my own filter in my taste and I still read and watch reviews, I stopped checking out most of the new stuff. I stick to almost 60 bands (the bands that I listen to and bookmarked on Metal Archives) and I don't check whatever is the "next big thing" because they more than often waste of time individually if not musically. I don't care what people listen to or don't listen to, when these people try to set new soft rules and guidelines, trying to tame the genre, that's where I get annoyed. I listen to black metal almost exclusively but let's just call it extreme metal like you did in the video, I think people shouldn't feel safe when they listen to extreme metal and I don't mean it in physical way. Re: What you have said about algorithm: I listen to music digitally and I don't pay attention what is recommended to me. I basically use Bandcamp or Spotify like an offline music player and library like Winamp, Foobar etc. than anything else. I'm probably in the minority the way I listen to music versus the majority of the other digital listeners but oh well...

[@laakasuo]

You are a gem.

[@RautaMetal]

💎

[@mads.percussion]

Great if someone with craftmanship and intent can create freely. The problem is when people take any opinion or statement about any kind of music as being a personal attack of the listener's enjoyment, like any other modern offense fetishist. I do believe that we can be graceful about for example suggesting superior alternatives when people have shown an initial interest in a, maybe watered down, gateway band. Jerry is doing a great job in communicating the passion that gets diluted in the everyday noise for most people.

[@RautaMetal]

Thanks for your words!

[@niklaskarlsson550]

There's a Neez for Gatekeeping, though it can also get really narrow quite fast. You can always find those that slam the "Eternal Secret Rule-Book To Black Metal" on the table and in there, it's seem every variant of wierd and odd shit is written.

[@MandelbrotMetalhead]

Gate keeping is good. The people that get upset about it are those that don't measure up

[@Антон-и1т6г]

On the bright side, whenever you find a gem in a sea of mediocrity, it's a special experience that almost feels like a grand achievement, so you could also say that the abundance of trash just makes the gems all the more valuable. Overall, I mostly agree with you and I'm afraid of what might become of black metal if there's not enough of gatekeeping in the future, and the genre certainly seems to be at the risk of loosing its integrity and becoming too mainstream.

[@RautaMetal]

True about gems but also more tiresome to go thru all the crap. Can make one feel to stay with the classics.

[@Slowly_We_Rot]

Whatever doesn’t experience gatekeeping is almost always usurped and then ruined.

[@soilesiirtola9577]

👍

[@z0h33y]

I dont want to gatekeep, but when youre a metal fan, and someone else tells you they are too, you get excited to hear about it, only to find out that they really dont have a good understanding of the genre, no clue about any of it. Leaves me feeling very disappointed.

[@Gregbaltzer]

The only band I'm currently gatekeeping is Sleep Token. lol They are not metal. Okay, maybe Bad Omens too. My opinion is to be metal then the majority of a bands music should be metal. I'm okay with fusion, but it still has to me dominantly metal. You can't have a 64 minute album, have 16 minutes worth or metal moments and still be considered metal. To me that the equivalent of a metal band adding 16 minutes of symphonic music to an album and calling themselves classical musicians. Love them or hate them, I'm not a fan but I think Baby Metal has enough metal in their music to qualify as metal. But metal has changed a lot. The internet is already full of people arguing over metalcore/deathcore bands being metal or not. I personally fucking hate metalcore/deathcore. I used to think I hated country music a lot, but now I don't hate country nearly as much as I hate metalcore, and deathcore. lol

[@Leif-ig4xu]

Metal music needs to be conserved at all costs. Yet bands need to push their boundaries of creativeness. Me personally I love bands that have their own sound. So I judge bands on their own volition and merit's. I don't care whether they belong on whatever stupid sub metal genres they fit into. If you like the band listen: if you don't then find another band. As corpse grinder says at every show: " keep supporting metal!" Last but not least who cares what anybody thinks.

[@megatedassaultituary6783]

Gaped keepers XD hahahhahaha now thats a whole different story....I would classify J dawg in the gaped keeper category for sure.

[@RautaMetal]

Sure, why not

[@antimonos]

I wasn't aware of the existence of the horrendous band, Liturgy, because of gatekeeping. Unfortunately listening to a non-music podcast brought them to my attention.

[@RautaMetal]

😀

[@kapriizais8278]

People who are bothered by gatekeepers dont want to get through the gates anyway. But for real, how can i stop anyone from enjoying anything to begin with , therefore gatekeeping doesnt exist

[@RautaMetal]

Nah, a lot of people have no clue of underground. Just because they know Metallica or Behemoth, doesn't mean they understand something Beyond.

[@djmorbidj]

I'll be the first to say this when it comes to gatekeeping I'm not against it but at the same time I'm not one of those people that would enforce it either I'm pretty much neutral about it. I seen many different types of gatekeepers in many different sub-genres of metal and to a certain degree it is a good guideline to follow. But to be honest I've had my fair share of gatekeepers who recommended me good music and s*** music as well. More than half the time the good music I find is due to my own research. More or less I see gatekeeping as as you stated a guideline or a sense of direction not so much a type of law enforcement thing. Although I can see how it can be a metal law enforcement thing for those of us who can't police ourselves in the scene or have no self-control within the scene. There are bands that sound the same or play the same thing forever I've actually there are those of us who get bored of hearing the same thing over and over again and we want something fresh and different. I hope that makes sense. I just don't like it when a gatekeeper goes as far as wants to personally fight you just because you say something they disagree with or your musical taste doesn't exactly match theirs. So yeah when it does come down to gatekeeping at the end of the day it's a 50/50 to me there's a positive and there's a negative to it. I do have a question do you see gatekeepers along the same lines as says elitists or edgelords?

[@RautaMetal]

Thanks for your reasonable answer. Like said, gatekeeping is more a guideline thiing rather than being a scene sheriff or genre police telling what to listen to and what not to listen to. A gatekeeper by definition of course is like a bouncer, but i think we should see it more like a metaphor it is: we should not take it autistic ways, but just as something like a common sense. Ie. don't listen to stupid people with stupid advice. Stick to legit source of information and trust people who explain what they say and what they recommend / not recommend. Edgelords are a different thing than gatekeepers. But gatekeeping and elitism and snobbery can be seen somewhat of a synonym to one another. Like I consider myself sort of an elitist: I don't hang out with stupid people, drink bad coffee or beer, listen to shitty music (outside reviews anyway) or recommend bad music/movies/series/games/books etc. So yeah, elitism can be nice and helpful too, not just some toxic edgelord bullshit.

[@djmorbidj]

​@@RautaMetal Appreciate the response. Gatekeepers are fine when it comes to genres/subgenre's but I do have to seperate myself from ones that have shit taste in bands/subgenres while at the same time act like the metal sheriff task force. Its one's that act like snobbish scene/metal law enforcing pricks that i tend to blow off and don;t care for. I like yourself don't like hanging around idiots, people who use you when its beneficial, drink/eat shit food/coffee, don't like to bad music (within metal genre's),etc

[@RautaMetal]

@djmorbidj Yep. Common sense is in place.

[@laporteestouverte]

I think there actually wasn't enough gatekeeping in extreme metal, and in black metal in particular. Metal has gone from extreme people making extreme music to a scene full of whining leftists, trans-enthusiasts, who are always looking for excuses to cancel bands, for not being progressive enough. They also loooooove the government and the vakcsines, and will gang bang on people who question it. How did we fall so low? It actually mostly disgusted me from metal, which I have been listening to for the past 30 years. The hypocrisy in making violent music about hatred, and behind calling for cuddles and what not, I just can't. The music also really suffers from the shift in attitude. Most metal nowadays is very bad, because it feels unsincere, and made by people who actually don't understand it. Just random shrieks, blasts with no soul. Thankfully, there are still a handful of good bands, but I just don't bother with metalheads and don't follow the scene as closely now

[@RautaMetal]

It's weird you manage to put music, politics and science in the same box. Just God is missing and we could shout "bingo". 😀

[@laporteestouverte]

@@RautaMetal Sorry, I'll try harder next time ;)

[@RautaMetal]

Just lay off the booze and/or drugs for a while :P

[@Zach-v7r]

I am the Gatekeeper of MICTLAN.

[@rytkosenjussi]

Im gatekeeping my favorite bands not others that are now most popular.

[@laakasuo]

I have always appreciated gatekeeping. However, when metalarchives does not accept tool, i think something has gone wrong. Especially when it accepts several other doomy metal bands without dual guitars and drony atmospheres (there is a case to be made för tool being a doomy/post-metallish progressive band) ä.

[@RautaMetal]

Yeah. MA does a lot of gatekeeping. Sometimes the info is not up to date and also sometimes too strict wirh genres.

[@ahtolembit9635]

Black metal is gatekeeping!

[@RautaMetal]

We can only wish.

[@bebop_557]

Vetting the people you let into your circles is essential. Being LGBT myself, I can tell you most of us who've been out for a while now have wholly divorced ourselves from the LGBT community for a good reason. I've seen how bad it gets when you don't gatekeep and thoroughly vet the people you're letting in, as have many other LGBT. We have some serious horror stories about our time in the community. I've found more solidarity in heavy metal.

[@RautaMetal]

Sorry to hear you have had such bad experience in your communities.

[@bebop_557]

@@RautaMetal Eh, if anything it's why I am so ride or die for younger LGBT now. I've helped pull a lot of young LGBT out of the fire and given them advice, so that they don't have to make the same mistakes that I did.

[@LePopPathetique]

thats a comment I can totally relate with as part of the LGBT myself - I've totally found much more acceptance and solidarity in the metal circles rather than my "comrades", especially in the black metal underground community out of all places, which to some might sound weird. I guess it also helps that I'm seen as a person on a deeper level and appreciated for my personality rather than having to always explain

[@bebop_557]

@@LePopPathetique And I think that's a huge thing. A lot of the metal communities, you don't need to explain anything because you're there for the same reason as they are: a love of music.

[@klenha]

people who cry about gatekeeping are exactly why gatekeeping exist. cringe ass teen tiktokers will disrespect the value of our music, which makes us angry, and annoyed, and then worry why they are being laughed at, and gatekept. gatekeeping isn't anything that is a real issue, nothing is preventing you of listening to specific type of music, or a band, its just the community that you can mute out.

[@RautaMetal]

Exactly

[@Northbound666]

In times of quantity over quality the kind of Gatekeeping lebel used to do would be wellcomed. But seems like they have also mostly lost it. Also some sort of voicing out is needed to keep certain things in check. Like what passess of as black metal. So much shait is being slapped with the label and not holding the merits. But on the other hand some actions trying to keep things "True" in time leeds to sheep herd like circle jerking that is many times against the ideas you used to stand for. As your @rauta 90's Norway walk through showed bands used to have individual identities musically and otherwise as well. Years of Gatekeeping and things and ideas start to circle around and eventually everything sounds and looks the same. And this has been going on In Finland and other countries as well as I see it.

[@RautaMetal]

Yes. It's a tightrope walking in essence. That "true" thing kinda got stupid, but also this is not a genre for everybody or for everything.

[@Ana6ta6ia]

Jerry, where is WD interview or are you gatekeeping it from us? 😁😁😁

[@RautaMetal]

It's in editing phase.

[@ms.felonystrutter2472]

Jerry, I so wish you said to Erik that you know me.....he would have told you a lot about me.....Jerry, where do we get our "Metal Gatekeeping Diploma/liscence?? I am a leather clsd old school metalbTransgurl....did me and you not debate my beloved WATAIN?? Now you are interviewing them. NO ONE TELLS ME WHAT TO LIKE....AS A METALHEAD ...since 1976. All due disrespect....I dig your opinion Jerry, but I trust my own ears.

[@RautaMetal]

I can't Possibly remember everyone when I do interviews and that one happened over a year ago :)

[@natalie-kj4om]

Gatekeeping is very important. I don't want any tiktok people in black metal. I'm also sick of these Goths wearing these fake black metal logos on their clothes. Embarassing. Also why is it that every person I see on the internet that "likes black metal" and does not do metal content has always a darkthrone shirt on? If not darkthrone then it's a darkthrone logo font or mayhem font. Really always is that case. Makes me roll my eyes harder than in a seizure.

[@MusicOfDestruction]

Im a very proud gatekeeper and an elitist. I make no apologies for this. HAILS RAUTA

[@johnran6015]

When you don't gatekeep it's how you end up with fake death metal hardcore bands on Metal Blade.

[@RautaMetal]

💰

[@tjcaruthers5593]

The three reasons you give for gatekeeping is really not reasons for gatekeeping. There is enough ways for a new fan to metal to pick through what's good or not by word of mouth, chat threads, or sampling music on thier own. The next reason for gatekeeping you give is due to self produced and released music. There are those who do it right and don't do it right. More of the argument in this scenario would be the jobs lost from session players, engineers, producers, techs, label people like A&R reps. There is a certain level of gatekeeping already with labels like you mentioned. So really having more gatekeeping than those putting thier own money up to record in a studio is good enough. You give AI as the third reason. Again who is who to tell some one what is good or isn't. That's the ultimate reason why gatekeeping is a bad thing, you are literally telling people what they should listen to. Why isn't offering an opinion when you are asked not good enough? I've been listening to metal since I can remember and probably before that. In my 47yrs I never had an issue of finding what's good or what is bad. I was able to navigate through the many bands in the 80s and had to with the over saturated death metal scene in the 90s. Now I don't think your intentions are that of negativity I just don't agree with telling people what to listen or what is good or what is bad. If somebody wants suggestions on what bands are awesome black metal bands outside of Scandinavia then sure provide suggestions. But to tell people or even worse if someone likes something that was AI generated or one guy made a full length DSBM album in his basement but you tell someone not to listen to it because it's AI generated and ridicule them for it ends up turning fans a way. The way I see gatekeeping is it gives opportunity to one person to influence another into thier way of thinking and that thinking is superior than the person who is. being influenced.

[@RautaMetal]

Like I think I said: people are free to do anything they want. If they enjoy AI music, good for them, but at least they should know it is not generated by music made by others. And if they are content wirh algos suggesting them music, good for then. For me it is not enough. I think our generation (me being 48) had it easier findiing good music than kids of nowadays. When it comes to live, I doubt we get to see good AI shows any time soon.

[@ceceliataylor84]

Also, is BM like classical music? The only 'true' classical music existed between the 17-19th century and nothing after that is 'real'...and i am a Claude Debussy fan.

[@Easun36]

I tend to agree, but as long as it doesn't turn into bigotry/bullying. Underground tryhardism is as pathetic as trendhopping.

[@RautaMetal]

Yes: we don’t want bullying ofc.

[@Easun36]

@@RautaMetal Absolutely. It's cowardly and I despise cowards.

[@RautaMetal]

My favorite quote on that topic is:”All men would be cowards if they only had courage to.”

[@Easun36]

@@RautaMetal Hehehe. 👍

[@Poser_Metal_Records]

Cancel Rauta for having opinions that I don't like!

[@RautaMetal]

Yes please.

[@ceceliataylor84]

Gatekeeping is good to a point. But when no one new is alllowed in the scene it stagnates and dies; should BM die when the members of the 2nd wave die out...jk?

[@EPKKC]

I prefer to see my favorite genre die the Head and Chin up than otherwise. I dislike MANY second wave BM bands and never enjoyed the said first wave.

[@RautaMetal]

The stronger will survive while the ones for money or fame will die.

[@naturalianoss]

no it doesn’t die it carries on with people that kept the art true

[@naturalianoss]

@@EPKKCIf you don’t like The Return… by Bathory then black metal is not for you . And that is ok .

[@alexkalfakis5723]

@@RautaMetal But dude, almost everyone in the scene nowadays does it for the money or fame. 🤣 Stop romanticising a scene and a genre that is pretty much dead and stagnated. The metal scene has become as corrupt and as much of a parody of itself as trap music. And most of metal fans hate to admit it, but it is true!

[@brodoswaggins3970]

nah dude

[@RautaMetal]

You are free to love AI music and algorithms, I don't blame you for that.

[@brodoswaggins3970]

@@RautaMetal es

[@RautaMetal]

Yes, currently in "es".🇪🇸

[@chujdurzy]

stay mad bozo

[@665demondog]

The "f*ck your feelings" argument thats what i say to the elitists i just listen to what i enjoy l, if i don't enjoy it i just don't pay attention to it, i listen to Immolation, Cannibal Corpse, Exodus, Tankard, and at the same time bands like Nightwish, Epica, and Therion

[@RautaMetal]

Right on!

[@djmorbidj]

That makes 2 of us!