Why Microsoft's Bet On a HoloLens Metaverse Isn't Paying Off | WSJ Tech News Briefing

Microsoft debuted its HoloLens augmented-reality headset seven years ago. But despite that head start,it has struggled to succeed in the market for the metaverse.
WSJ tech reporter Aaron Tilley joins host Zoe Thomas to discuss why, and what it can teach other companies making a play for the new digital realm.
Photo: Angel Garcia/Bloomberg News
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#WSJ #Microsoft #Hololens

[@ericnans903]

Maybe if they weren't so expensive we could actually develop something with them.

[@danyala.1659]

Expensive because of the lack of demand, need economies of scale.

[@benjamindover4337]

If $3k is expensive to you, then you are not even in the game.

[@ericnans903]

@@benjamindover4337 you must know squat about engineering it cost them pennies on the dollar to make it. Why would you buy something over priced to feed the beast? When you can get the same thing for $400 with IRL AR glasses.

[@ericnans903]

@@danyala.1659 Lack of demand because of lack of developers making cool stuff.

[@benjamindover4337]

@Gibbon he indicated that he wants to use it for development purposes, not for fun

[@plt7915]

Honestly I think hololens or AR has a lot more potential than metaverse or VR. I think ten years down the line people will use AR far more than VR because AR has far more productivity but in case of VR, yes it can be implemented in games but in professional life I don't think it has any room. In my organization people extremely rarely turn on camera when they do meetings and I don't think they will put on the headset and use metaverse, A similar thing is with virtual assistant as I rarely use Alexa or Siri in my day to day life, it's more of a gimmicky. But for AR I think it has a business, I work in a medical device organization and if I use AR I can definitely improve my productivity when it comes to field servicing of critical medical equipment.

[@ggg21201]

I agree but VR is more profitable now and that's meaningful. We've seen so many companies be the first to market only to be too early and another company comes out of nowhere with better timing, and since the product is fresh and new for them it's easier to market.

[@vozkuskatan]

I agree also I think nreal could be that market disruptor but we’ll see in a few years.

[@witness1013]

No.

[@xinli2169]

Frankly the metaverse is AR ultimately, the ideal scenario is you put on a pair of glasses and you can see your friend sitting next to you, that would be next level social media but the technology is just not there yet. We can’t pack a RTX 4090 on your head with a phone battery and no liquid cooling but that would be the computing power we need.

[@chadjackson5113]

Agreed, I sell XR software and the practical business applications are remote communication and collaboration. Learning, development, training, and knowledge transfer near term. Lots of hurdles currently with content and definitely with hardware. There is resistance to wear a device, weight, HW current tech specs limit performance, battery life is terrible and more. It will be 10 years or more. Until next Gen batteries become mainstream and tech performance in relation to size and weight needs to be solved.

[@ttscruz]

Wow, at 1.5x it sounds like normal speed

[@SirFaceFone]

Watch them do a 180 now that Apple is making their own AR headset

[@ch3ckm8]

yea it's funny how when Apple releases a stupidly expensive product, it's "the future." But when another company does, it's a terrible business idea 🤣

[@dougbfresh]

@@ch3ckm8 Eh its to do with execution and historics. Apple has histoically just been better at delivering cohesive hardware/softare with a vision. The fact of the matter is Hololens 2 limitation was technology of the time, reliance on snapdragon processor and frankly....AR. I would not be shocked if Apple first approached vision pro from an AR perspective before seeing the very real limits you can pull off with an AR sized display and so decided to go full VR headset. but notice they refuse to call it VR and they very much make the video passthrough core to the experience. MS on the other hand seems to only dip their toe in something before running away leaving their die hard fans burned. I say this as a former Windows Phone and Microsoft Band owner.

[@ch3ckm8]

@@dougbfresh it has more to do with the perception of social status than anything lol. There is a cult following regardless of the value it brings for the price. Ex: new iPhones cost more than fully spec laptops lol...

[@hugowells3052]

@@ch3ckm8People say that as if these perceptions just pop out of the ground fully formed, but they come from somewhere. The reason Apple has such strong loyalty is because of their history of delivering products

[@alimfuzzy]

If this was an Apple product the WSJ would phrase it... "The unrealized potential of the hololens"... and then just have guests talking how great it is.

[@cjmooreftwtx2000]

Well, I don’t think anyone can believe anything they ever see from any so-called news source. Nearly every story on every subject is wrong nearly every time.

[@isferfun3909]

Heehehe...

[@louieuy7607]

its called shaping the narrative

[@ronaldorivers236]

Probably most of them (WSJ) staff use MacBook airs, iPads and iPhones.

[@shashank1630]

Apple wouldn't bother making a product like this WITHOUT a massive developer ecosystem.... That's the difference. Much like the iPhone or iPad - the apps and functionality that they allow will make the platform succeed. HoloLens has a very poor developer ecosystem - and I know this for a fact.

[@lawyermahaprasad]

Expecting and strategically working for Profits before PMF is bonkers

[@kcdiazWTV]

The problem is everyone is trying to get into productivity. Everyone knows what it is best for and it is not for productivity.

[@jaydibernardo4320]

"Lack of direction, overworked & management troubling". I guess I work for MS & didn't know it.

[@JogBird]

because nothing beats a simple monitor

[@sovereignprime4683]

Personally, I think a 360 desktop would be pretty cool. 1 million tabs open and 15 different spreadsheets and what not… I think if you want to make the Metaverse popular, first, you're gonna have to get people using it, by making it useful!

[@captainlockes2344]

I think it will only succeed once we can no longer see the pixels and putting it on is as easy as putting on a pair of glasses where we won’t even notice that we’re wearing it.

[@dogussahin]

Microsoft is a company that is first to notice a trend but always the last to act. This is in their dna. They are a very risk-averse company

[@fredyph30]

Or you can say - they are a people conscious company. The impact of these products on mental health, general health has to be extensively studied before launching and Microsoft generally doesn't cut corners around these areas

[@luisb.3571]

I bought a pair for my company, the possibilities are limitless. Unfortunately the operational system is counter intuitive, really focus in maximizing profit over experience or service. Azure cloud services are complicated and boring.

[@vkgamingplatform7247]

They need to first give it a full View area not limited to just the size of a small square

[@MM-uh2qk]

Full area of view would mean lower PPD. Hence, lower graphics fidelity aka blurry display

[@vkgamingplatform7247]

@@MM-uh2qk then increase the number of pixels

[@MM-uh2qk]

@@vkgamingplatform7247 you will need more powerful chips which were probably not available to them at the time. Also, heavier components as well, higher capacity battery, etc unless you are going to have it plugged in the whole time. For use as a standalone device, given the current state of tech, you are probably going to sacrifice one for another to some extent.

[@vkgamingplatform7247]

@@MM-uh2qk i don't think high pperformance chips is the problem I think the mais problem is projector.

[@jazilzaim]

Microsoft has failed on many projects. The Hololens reminds me of the failure of the Windows Phone where Microsoft had a chance but lost it to competitors. Now the Quest Pro is about half the price and has more functionality. Microsoft has mostly done well in the B2B space in recent years.

[@captainlockes2344]

I always wonder why it is that Apple can make such clean good looking devices while everyone else’s devices are so ugly in comparison. Companies should focus a lot more on making their products look good, and that includes the user interface.

[@witness1013]

Quest Pro vvs Hololens is like being the tallest midget.. who cares..

[@steamerSama]

@@captainlockes2344 because the current Apple does just one thing right. Refine consumer products that are already in the market. Second mover advantage. iPods refined mp3 players, iPhone refined Symbian phones.

[@chaosfenix]

I think that the military really should keep supporting this project as the potential upsides are massive. In the military you don't really care how stupid something looks so long as the performance is where it needs to be. Luckily I think a lot of the issues that the Army has had with the hololens 2 can be improved with hardware that is already available. The hololens 2 uses a modified Snapdragon 845. That is 5 years old at this point and should probably be upgraded to a Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 or Gen 3 when it comes out. the newer processor is 4-5 times as powerful at the same power consumption depending on the workload which could be used to run more efficiently or provide a smoother experience. This would actually plat to the next thing that needs to be upgraded. The display. The current display has an 80 degree FOV and only runs at 60Hz. This is known to induce sickness and headaches in VR content and I imagine it is similar to what we are seeing with AR applications. Microsoft should use a similar display to what is in the Vision Pro that is 90-96Hz and is estimates to have a 100 degree FOV. This will reduce eyestrain etc that the current model suffers from and thanks to the more powerful processor I covered first it should be able to handle it. Is this where they should stop? No. I think modularizing the device will really help as the processor could be upgraded separately to the display and sensors. 90hz is also a minimum with many high end displays offering 120hz or higher. When it comes to reducing motion sickness higher refresh rates will be better depending on the user so the more that microsoft can increase this spec without sacrificing other factors the better.

[@chadjackson5113]

I sell XR software (we use and resell HoloLens 2 and other HMD brands , waiting on Apple Vision Pro) and the HoloLens 2 has many issues. Current HW specs is a major issue along with terrible battery life. They are bulky to wear for long periods of time. Plus, they can be glitchy, things like the touch and gaze navigation. Gaze suffers for any type of moving AR artifacts (locking in can be frustrating). Off angle view and interaction can be another challenge. Field of view and distance present challenges. The larger the object overlay the further you need to be away for full field of view. If the AR content is too spread out the FOV come into play in a major way.

[@chaosfenix]

@@chadjackson5113 Yeah hence why the hardware needs an upgrade in a major way. Given how much more powerful and efficient more modern SOCs are they could go a few ways with it. Assuming the newest hardware is 4x as powerful (which is what you get according to benchmarks but that isn't always accurate and can vary depending on application) you could address performance and battery life at the same time. Do like a 2x in performance related metrics to allow things like faster refresh rates and a wider field of view which may come with more pixels and then run it at a lower clock speed which should help in battery life. A lot of the other things you mention sound like software optimization and not really related to hardware but that is part of what is frustrating. There are relatively simple fixes available by moving to newer processing hardware and displays that will allow you to focus on the software related issues in your development time. Instead you may spend software development time optimizing for performance on the SOC instead of addressing other issues that are inherent with developing a new platform.

[@cjmooreftwtx2000]

No offense, this sounds like a paid add by a Microsoft competitor. Your missing a lot of info and explanation of the military use was vague. Although I don’t discount that hololens has problems, I’d be surprised if this wasn’t paid for by Apple, Meta or another company.

[@bobthemagicmoose]

I disagree, this tracks the reporting over the past few months from multiple outlets.

[@businessgoat8945]

def paid by apple

[@cjmooreftwtx2000]

@@bobthemagicmoose I think your an Apple operative (or possibly an AI Bot that’s been sent out to disseminate disinformation. You can’t fool me!

[@eustab.anas-mann9510]

This newspaper is owned by Jeff Bezos.

[@ALuckyDonkey]

Battery life seems like a real hard thing to overcome for military field operations.

[@captainlockes2344]

They could’ve just have an external battery pack and wire the headset to it. Better yet, make the computing hardware external as well. That would’ve significantly reduced the weight of the headset and made it more comfortable to wear.

[@blackmesacake5361]

It's really a shame they shifted it away from video games, that could have changed the landscape for today

[@stephenjams]

Give it time

[@isferfun3909]

I'd say keep buying msft and hodl..

[@cvrajendra]

Hard critique of MS. Good Zoe

[@ConAntonakos]

Why? Because we haven't reached economies of scale and behavioral shift. It requires consumers to change behavior. And change for humans is hard. Look at digital from COVID. This is a long term plan. The question is: who do you trust to lead it?

[@HighTechWizard]

HoloLens can and should replace everything a laptop or office workstation can do, A simple Bluetooth poket keyboard, and you've got yourself a highly mobile and powerful laptop with multiple virtual monitors for gaming or working. Not to mention intuitive hand gesture and voice control. No more bulky office furniture spaces, higher productivity through virtual screen real estate, better collaborative efforts with team members. Holo Lens should be taking off, and it's weird that it is not.

[@rationaleuler7199]

Uhm… isn’t the main use for the military training?

[@FlockofSmeagles]

I think that the average consumer would be happy with being able to have wearable desktop. I understand that there are industrial use cases, but if they could just develop a desktop experience that would rival that of the PC itself. The younger generation 30+. Would flock to it for productivity reasons.

[@doomtomb3]

Reminds me of Tom Clancy’s “Ghost Recon”

[@rschritt]

All new tech is expensive. The growth in the business sector will help lower the cost of new models for consumers. Lots of potential with AR.

[@pacman9876]

Because people are fed up with tracking.

[@mrtienphysics666]

Why not review NReal glasses?

[@PhailingMath]

Aaron needs a cup of coffee before his next interview

[@middlemanimnij]

not enough value yet. need outstanding usecases

[@chadjackson5113]

There are use cases. We have airlines and semiconductor companies using it for training / learning and development. We replicated airplane cockpits for training. I sell XR software.

[@bryansmith1411]

The graphics need to be on point for it to work. Like almost indistinguishable from real life, and they just aren't there yet. AT ALL...

[@benjamindover4337]

Wrong. "Realistic graphics" is the least important factor.

[@alostbard]

@@benjamindover4337 I think he confused AR with VR.

[@ALuckyDonkey]

Still waiting for an open source meta verse

[@JHSaxa]

There is, sort of! OpenXR is supported by Microsoft and nearly every other big tech company.... except Apple. 🙄

[@pixelfairy]

Seems vr wasn't good enough for their interview.

[@kcovert3]

Awesome devices

[@samuelmarndi]

its not the right time. its ahead of its time. right now no one is profiting from metaverse even Meta is loosing. but the one who can build it faster and better will win.

[@thenewwayhome]

The metaverse is at an excellent level now, however, developers need to work more on it. It could be greater 2 or more years from now.

[@juantellez2176]

thoughts on the apple version coming out in a few days? they are supposedly priced similar

[@oneito947]

Who is here after the apple vision pro

[@prodj.mixapeofficial6431]

If only they can sell Xbox series consoles with window os for production, like video, photo, cad, simulation, rendering, a typical PC but better optimized cpu and GPU performance and cheaper. They would kill the market.

[@teahousereloaded]

For convincing and attractive ar you need more than the puny integrated gpu of the hololens. For looking at CAD in vr we have 3090s in sli and it looks neither convincing nor has an amazing framerate.

[@didierpuzenat7280]

WSJ talks about VR/AR but cannot even buy webcams ? It is ok for just comments, but when peoples are interacting as in a visio-conference, with an empty screen, activating webcams would have been nice.

[@TheRustyLM]

My gaming millennial nephews say the VR headsets make them nauseous, don’t ever use them anymore. 🤢 No thanks!

[@Leto2ndAtreides]

Because Microsoft has the attitude of academic researchers... Too chill.

[@davidng2699]

Microsoft did not spend nearly as much as Meta developing their Metaverse Goggles, so it's all good.

[@moonchief952]

Well actually HoloLens killed itself, because of Microsoft. A lot of innovative creators who could barely afford the device took a gamble and then Microsoft blindsided them with HoloLens2 which deprecated the first one. Those indie devs were abandoned by Microsoft. I bet many of those initial devs did not purchase the second version due to funds, and lack of support by Microsoft, and the HTK was too volatile. And then every one lost the vision with chief meta verse officers. 😂

[@TimEllisau]

No one wants to put anything on their faces! Think about how hard it was getting people to wear masks and once they become an option then fewer and fewer people did it

[@benjamindover4337]

You'll do it when you employer mandates it.

[@chadjackson5113]

It is a real challenge, I sell XR software. We use and resell the HoloLens 2 among other HMD for use with our platform. People are resistant to wearing them.

[@GlennDavey]

TELL US THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE TODAY THAT A METAVERSE SOLVES. I'll wait...

[@spencerfried8622]

why dony these two just video chat lol

[@sookwilson5926]

At least Microsoft is a more stable company with long history, not manage by one ego maniac

[@jeffluo9591]

sell it to iron man

[@BUBBLETEABOY]

Military spent billions on it no?

[@grimsk]

알아서 잘 하겠죠 ㅎ

[@arshiadil8183]

It's going pretty good in my opinion.

[@rchllwlsn]

nobody’s metaverse is taking off because it’s a bad idea

[@krishnaSagar69]

metaverse is the future but its too soon. These companies are thinking they can just accelerate this tech but it isn't working. The idea behind that is people like to spend more and more time in the online world and these companies want to create their own world so that these people start living a new life in these virtual world. The pros are being discussed in these statements but not the cons, how this tech will affect people minds and all.

[@JamesWest_III]

Until VR can capture the basic 5 senses, it will never become mainstream

[@leeoiou7295]

Lol. Taste, touch and smell would be impossible.

[@abram730]

@@leeoiou7295 FDA blocked smell, and they have touch in the works.

[@gogrape9716]

This and Meta are all premature without a more substantial hardware environment to support them. I am just waiting for Apple to introduce a more comprehensive package...

[@danielgormly6064]

Nailed it

[@user-if2jq8vr8y]

i like ar and hololens bc it blends with reality making me not forget reality

[@SushiCombo]

Goodbye hololens ☠️

[@TwistedShrapnel]

Apple’s going to destroy the HoloLens.

[@yingcluk]

Today's consumers just aren't to pay for the price for AR/VR, and the usage of it can be replaced by much cheaper product. It's just a niche product for now, and it's no surprised it doesn't sell much.

[@chenvictor8]

Corporate inefficiencies

[@MetaStockHolder]

Meta quest is better.

[@BernhardWelzel]

If WSJ is going this hard after HoloLens, what should an actual reporting on Metaverse look like? The useless product Meta is building has no market demand, has no purpose or added value. Maybe WSJ should report on Second Life and try to hype it up the same way they are hyping Meta at the moment ...

[@ButteryBao]

They did report on it two weeks ago and on how empty it is.

[@falloutmule]

Really rolling out the high quality videos. A 13 yr you tubers can do better

[@businessgoat8945]

Let's face it. Oculus Pro by Meta is the future. No one wants to admit it, because everyone is waiting on Apple's next move

[@Bens963]

My issue is lack of direction within Meta. The lack of direction is so bad it even shows in your comment when you called it an Oculus Pro whereas its name is the Meta Quest Pro. I'm not knocking you for calling it an Oculus but it's just a sample of how Meta need far more focus to make it work, their metaverse is barebones so far. I'm bullish on the tech but I don't see Meta being the leader

[@stacywrightsman938]

First

[@TheRustyLM]

My hero! 😂

[@HiThisIsMine]

All your “podcasts” are slow and boring. The guests always sound tired and unmotivated. This is also KZbin… maybe consider some more visuals rather than a clip of you in what seems like your wedding dress. Not trying to be a hater… I just keep having interest in watching the video but lose interest because of how depressing the “show” is.

[@12e3pi]

Ouch! Miss Thomas regretfully, has an uncomfortably high shrill voice. Please replace with another.

[@louisgiokas2206]

Porn is the answer. That's where the metaverse will go anyway. Just look at Second Life.

[@kristensorensen2219]

#645👍🤔I prefer reality to fake! Nice way to promote the military industrial complex as 🤑 using this gaming junk😝!

[@abelardogreen]

Lame. Lame.

[@ChiakiShirakawa]

このイメージ動画は、日本国憲法違反の皇族特権で国有化された皇室財産を悪用してマネロンするくらい腐敗臭して絶望する。

[@jsmith2132]

Aaron .. stop using pronouns ... start using NAMES !

[@Mramitgulati]

Seems like a failing tech... Hololens... Metaverse... AR... People don't like it... Doomed Tech...

[@cappybenton]

Another podcast mascarading as a video. Hard pass.