Why More Education Is Not Always Better

[@EconomicsExplained]

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[@pn7064]

Assuming the writer of this video is a native (or at least a skilled) English speaker... why on earth would you say "un chapeau" for a coffee? English speakers call a coffee house a "cafe" in our everyday language. Cute story to plug the sponsor, but sounds suspect. Good video as usual though :)

[@male_maid5951]

why do i get the feeling you own said pokemon card

[@mazzdacon2134]

I am fluent in 3 languages and it can't be done with an app on a phone.

[@edthoreum929]

Kudos to those that got no degrees , hustled & survived!

[@adamciampa8697]

@@mazzdacon2134 does an app help? What’s the best way to learn? I’d like to learn another language.

[@ZyroZoro]

Over-education isn't a problem. Over-credentialism is. The only reason I'm in college is to get a piece of paper to wave at HR.

[@dieglhix]

Same, I enrolled into a computer engineering degree and will do the absolute minimum as I have 11 years of work experience, but need the paper for senior jobs now.

[@brian_Austin27]

Exactly

[@ИлянаА]

can't agree more. unless you don't need an employer and create your own way, which not everyone is able too, one needs a piece of paper to "prove" their knowledge and skills

[@andersdottir1111]

And it keeps teenagers out of the workforce so they can ‘mature’ a bit before hitting the workforce.

[@carlosr192]

If your country has more than 20% of college graduates... maybe in the modern world, finding a job abroad in a country that has less diplomas and a thriving economy, is that not seeing solution.

[@WilliamDye-willdye]

You can never have too much education, but schooling is not the equivalent of education.

[@ricardokowalski1579]

Spot on.

[@deek0146]

On a personal level there's an opportunity cost. Yes having a degree is good but is it worth spending 4 years of your youth and going into debt for.

[@ricardokowalski1579]

@@Q-n2b strawman argument. Why would homeschooling be related to any news channel? Fox or otherwise?

[@Jjm-t9i]

It’s about context - too many people have too many similar skills chasing the same path. I live in the UK and am waiting three weeks to see a dentist even though I am paying privately. We have tens of thousands of vacancies for healthcare professionals.

[@Leo80221]

@@Jjm-t9i I don't know about the UK, but in the USA there is a limit to how many doctors we allow to become doctors each year, and we are lacking a lot of doctors because of it. The reason for that is privatization of healthcare, fewer doctors keeps prices higher and insurance companies well paid. It's why you should be worried about the attempts to defund the NHS, because it just means higher prices and fewer doctors.

[@Wonzling0815]

I'm German and got my whole education here. It was a while ago, and I got to see first hand the changes to education that were done to appease employers. I was one of the last to graduate under the pre-BA/MA model. I remember having a lot of leeway to choose my own courses as long as I fulfilled certain minimum requirements, and there was a big focus on forming a scientific mindset instead of raw facts. While I was studying, the employers started announcing publicly that they want students to bolster their studies with volunteer experience made abroad. At the same time, fellow students reported that in job interviews they were being reprimanded for any gaps in their CVs that were not tied to by-the-book studies or fell between graduation and first job. Basically, the employers wanted to have a supply of graduates with specific skillsets on paper but had no interest in giving them the time to actually get that experience. And they kept faulting education for not fillling their needs. After graduation I worked on my PhD and proceeded to teach some courses at uni, for students who were now in the BA/MA system. I noticed that there was no more leeway for them to choose their own topics of study. It was basically structured like school: You had classes that taught a set of facts that you needed to pass a final test. A "scientific mindset" haS no room in that system, because can not be easily be put to a standardized test. At this point, I feel like the archetypical university education is just something that was structured to please employers who want to have an easy template to filter job applications. They just want a list of minimum requirements fulfilled in a minimum of time because younger=cheaper. Even if their expectations are completely unrealistic and the degrees themselves are completely disconnected from any kind of ability to understand the process of doing science.

[@eirikarnesen9691]

they want robots, but society still insist on using slaves

[@cancanjaker1620]

And this comment sums up the issue more accurately than all those over-complicated analysis out there.

[@existensistrubczthentruscatt]

Thank you for writing this comment for the matter of fact, it's pretty obvious. ❤

[@klauseba]

In Romania the schools are useless, they don't teach you anything that is in demand or needed to land a job so that when students finish their faculty they feel unqualified and work at factories for a bit above minimum wage to get "experience". This is by design to please the factory owners with highly motivated young and very cheap skill force. I finished Economics Engineering but the materials thought were about how to make a dress in the nearby clothing factory, and the director of that factory was teaching us one class. Same as how Rothschild paid politicians to make schools mandatory about 250 years ago and create obedient slaves but not too smart ones, so that he could easily find workers in his factories in USA.

[@Darrida]

The Germans have always done the science for the British and Americans. The English learned a long time ago to steal other people's work simply by changing the date

[@jaguarj1942]

I think the biggest contributor to this problem is that getting a degree is now an expectation rather than an option. It’s expected that anyone who does well at school go to Uni and get a degree.

[@jelef001]

Right. Meanwhile the first two years of the American college curriculum should be mastered before age 18.

[@Rene-uz3eb]

Inasmuch as it's an expectation, it may be because it's a sort of a 4 year long IQ test. That is indeed a problem. It would be much more efficient if it could be properly assessed how smart/capable a person is without doing a 4 year degree. Maybe the solution is simply for companies to hire by SAT scores. That's how schools determine you're smart enough, so why not businesses. Take the test but don't go to school.

[@millevenon5853]

@@jelef001 depends on the degree

[@georgeinjapan6583]

Many corporations have set this expectation as a requirement to being hired.

[@dianadialga3955]

@@Rene-uz3ebIf the 4-year college is supposed to be an IQ test, it’s a bad one. At that point you might as well shell out a couple hundred to take an actually IQ test and just put the full results on your resume lol

[@whiskersredwood]

I think our society tends to look down on those without a college degree. You are judged based on your education level, unless you are independently wealthy.

[@tomasprochazka6198]

Until you need them. Then is an available plumber or electrician a god to you :D

[@HCforLife1]

society is divided. People in trades look down on people with degrees. Most times they call them useless and laugh at graduates' misery. People are too divided nowadays.

[@jarvensucksballslolo]

The day that education is not worthwhile to pursue past a certain point is the day class disparity returns to the such astronomical levels we might as well have two different species between the have and have nots

[@arte2713]

I understood this. I was out with my friends, and I met someone I was a mutual friend to, and within the first few conversations we’ve had, he asked “What school did you go to?” Came up and stopped talking to me when my answer didn’t satisfy him

[@TheSoulCrisis]

@@arte2713 Good.....was time for him to $%#! off lol. Some people look at the world in silly ways.

[@aelux4179]

Overeducation does worry me, in the UK University level education is becoming so commonplace that graduates cant find jobs. In most stem fields a regular degree has been devalued to the point where a Master's or Doctorate are becoming a requirement to guarantee a job, simultaneously low skilled jobs are beginning to require new employees to hold degrees they don't need, just because they can.

[@Antonio-hb8rd]

I live in the UK and didn't get a degree. I work in finance and have found that most jobs don't require what you've mentioned. It's pretty easy to get a job in the UK unless it's highly specialised and complicated which is 1% of jobs. If you're struggling to get a job in the UK it's probably your fault. Employers will hire people without direct experience if you've got good experience in other areas because they can't find anyone good.

[@Antonio-hb8rd]

@@well-blazeredman6187 Recruiters are usually below average intelligence that's why they're recruiters.

[@aelux4179]

@@Antonio-hb8rd I was lucky enough to be extremely specialised so for me getting a job has never been an issue as my field is underserved by applicants, the issues I bring up are the experience of my university mates and colleagues at my company. Getting a job is easy, getting a job in your field of study, or one you aren't significantly overqualified for, is hard.

[@seiwarriors]

@@Antonio-hb8rd Probably an accountant

[@Mic_Glow]

HR likes to write fairy tales in job postings, if you go to the firm, have some knowledge/ experience and they really need a worker, they will probably hire you... Just don't go to HR, go to department head/ director first.

[@svettnabb]

Here in Norway, there is something called “masters degree sickness”. To become a manager or team leader in basically any field, especially in governmental positions, requires a masters degree..

[@proverbalizer]

I just watched another video about why Scandinavian countries are so economically prosperous. And widely accessible, high quality education was one of the key factors that video talked about

[@HyperVegitoDBZ]

​@@proverbalizerthe main reason is very controlled distribution of wealth. A doctor in Norway earn only 2-3x more than a factory worker, which is why specialists don't choose counties like Norway to live in, but average folk, do, because it's easy to enter middle class, impossible to ascend beyond it without the back in the govt. But average people have no ambition to go that high.

[@subhamjha6562]

Here in india same is for a teacher. So if tou want to become a teacher for middle class ,say class 6-8 you need graduation,then 2 year b.ed course then you have to give government civil exams. For high schools graduation+ masters + b.ed + government exams then wait for vacant seats if you got good marks you will get position. But salary is decent for middle schools $1000 . As in private in any job be it high school graduate or college degree holder you get $350- 700 at good.

[@dieglhix]

@@HyperVegitoDBZ Who would want to become a doctor there? Here it's like 10-20x

[@HyperVegitoDBZ]

@@dieglhix precisely. Hence Norway, like every socialist state, has problem with lack of manpower and specialists. Surprisingly, capable people don't want to pay 60% of their salary so that incapable people, they neve rmet can have a slightly less shitty life. Who would have thought.

[@Donkeyearsa]

A really big problem here in the states is that companies demand that their employees to be extremely over educated. There are jobs that someone who never graduated high-school could do just fine that the hiring manager is demanding at the least a bachelor's degree. There are people that have a near minimum wage job with little to no chance of advancement to a better paying job.

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

Supply and demand will sort it out eventually. If the companies ask for a janitor with a master's degree, no one's going to apply (presumably), and they'll have to lower their requirements.

[@Donkeyearsa]

@@Unknown-jt1jo I have seen posted jobes for a Janitorial Technician and a Bachelor's degree is required. And yes it's just someone to clean an office paying basicly minimum wage. It's really getting that stupid.

[@joshuah345]

@@Donkeyearsa don't forget asking for 2 years or more professional experience for things that may not need professional experience. i know volunteer work and such is a thing, but how does one have time to volunteer for things to be put on their resume if they aren't thinking about a resume, are focusing on learning or require money above all? not surprised people lie on their resumes with requirements like these.

[@castiel4746]

​@@Unknown-jt1joyes supply snd deman will adjust but in a worse state for all us. There is a title inflation , now a master is the equivalent of a bachelor some years back... in some years you will require a post phd to find a job

[@Donkeyearsa]

@@castiel4746 I don't see that happening. People are fighting back refusing to go to collage as its just way to expensive. At some point companies are going to demand to HR why they are not hiring people that the company desperately needs but are not hiring as no one is willing to apply for jobs that are paying way to little for what qualifications that the job is requiring.

[@tipennya]

I had a neighbor who has several restaurants, his own boss, an entrepreneur. He gave my son his first job his last year in HS. When my son said he was not sure what he wanted to do but that he didn't really want to go to college but felt pressured to go by society (not me) my neighbor told him this: "A degree is your qualification to work for someone else. Decide what you want to do and learn and master that. That is the difference between finding a job and finding fulfillment". Golden

[@tipennya]

P.S. - my son decided to return to coding and art, 2 things that he actually enjoys and will have enduring value in the workforce and can be combined (graphic art/design), self-training and dedicated specific training classes ❤ And I did too!! (Coding/UX are what I like!) Success to everyone!😊

[@EldenLord1142]

Wow that is so incredible but who asked

[@VishalSingh-gh7qz]

@@EldenLord1142 What ?

[@guavaice1]

@@EldenLord1142 I did, idiot

[@machalatte3]

@@EldenLord1142 I asked

[@clintosorus2647]

I'm in Australia in my late 30's. An advanced economy with a solid education system. I didn't finish high school and currently earn the same as my wife who has a masters degree and just submitted her PhD. School isn't everything.

[@shubhamsehgal2336]

What do you do?

[@clintosorus2647]

@@shubhamsehgal2336 Facilities Manager

[@josephjohnson1057]

That's an interesting observation, but it takes a while for education to pay off. A better measure is how much you make 10 years from now.

[@gabbar51ngh]

​@@clintosorus2647managers don't require high education qualifications and do offer high salary. They beat out most jobs with degrees if you're not in the top percentile but chances of getting that job is rare. You're still better off getting educated in most cases. Not everyone can be a manager but glad you're successful and earning well.

[@ahmedzakikhan7639]

You guys are the best example of "No-need-of-commonality-to-have-a-strong relationship" team. I have been rejected for being less INTELLIGENT. However I don't earn much lol

[@HeisenbergFam]

My heart goes out to all college students who got crippling debt and didnt learn much

[@commondude9881]

Poor souls were misled from the beginning. The Institutions knew and know that many "Degrees" are literally worthless.

[@Bottleofwater-n5y]

​@@commondude9881only if you live in America

[@tsubadaikhan6332]

I think the US has this the Worst. They're selling the entire College 'Experience' for over $100k to teenagers who most Parents would not trust with a Credit Card on a $500 limit.

[@musicheaven1679]

Me when free education

[@DarthRadical]

They should really only allow student loans for degrees which are an economic positive. Many (especially the humanities) are an economic negative after costs/time relative to just getting a job.

[@davidbarry6900]

Something that is VERY apparent in Europe and parts of North America is that home-owning older people (often retirees) simply cannot find tradespeople to fix problems. There is a HUGE demand for plumbers, electricians, carpenters, roofers, and general handymen/people, and this demand is going to keep growing as the boomer generation retires. It's even more apparent in cottage country rural areas outside cities. Lots of opportunity for people who are both willing to learn technical skills and/or setup their own business.

[@seiwarriors]

Well thats an obvious one. However for people to be in those field, firstly companies and the groevemrnt have to increase the wages for those field and have those field to be seen in a better light in order to actually gain employees. In addition the problem is that it is physical work and many tradies will probably works 10 to 15 years and see that if they go further in years thier bodies will crumble and will dies before they see the age of 70.

[@thebestcentaur]

​@@seiwarriorsdon't forget the stigma attached to physical labor/work with one's own hands-said stigma will take quite some time to disappear regardless of how much trades and physical labor pay

[@MsJubjubbird]

that is huge in Australia too. Especially as most tradies know they can earn way more working on a minesite than fixing people's gutters.

[@josephjohnson1057]

Unfortunately, people look down on those professions.

[@davidbarry6900]

@@josephjohnson1057 That's going to change in the next decade, with a surplus of unemployed doctorates and a dearth of tradies. I expect it will be a bit like how taxi drivers were much more highly valued than medical doctors in Cuba at one stage (because the cabbies could get US dollars from tourists).

[@LucasDimoveo]

I can tell you as someone with only a high school diploma - being a dishwasher or grocery store worker well into your 30s is PAINFUL. I’ve been making minimum wage since 2010. If you grew up in a poor family, go to college for something that will pay well Edit: I hope EE makes a video about people on the lower economic bracket in developed countries. What kind of jobs they do, their prospects, etc

[@lightfeather9953]

In the USA, you can do well with a diploma but often it means having to be up for relocating for work. Which is the same for college graduates anyway. There are almost always places in the USA that have high demand for labor that you can get a good start on savings and experience to take with you for your future. But if you have to stay in the same town, it can be really hard like that.

[@calvinhoward3808]

@@lightfeather9953 tons of traps in that relocation road. You have to culturally and legally adapt

[@vovalos]

not going for a university degree doesn't mean not building a career. There's a great shortage of welders, carpenters, plumbers, etc. And I was chatting with some trades doing work for me... their boss lives in a multi-million dollar mansion... I often see union plumbers earning more per hour than myself and I'm a senior engineer.

[@elwinowen5469]

@@vovalos Those jobs do require education though, whether it be going to trades school or taking an apprenticeship. Education != university.

[@GungerFang]

This can unfortunately happen with or without a degree though. I know plenty of people with college degrees working as baristas or in gas stations. A degree doesn't always translate into a career applicable skillset. Choosing a specific field of study for a specific career is one thing (i.e. studying to become an electrical engineer) but obtaining a generalist degree just for the sake of having a degree can wind up putting people in a situation without a career AND WITH student debt. IMO, every person has to find a way to make a wise investment in themselves to amplify and effectively utilize any existing strengths. This might not be a formal education though. Might be books, might be podcasts, might be apprenticeships.

[@SenseiLlama]

I think removing the trades from school was one of the worse economic decisions weve made.

[@EnzBank]

They alright trades out their most of them are goes private. Practical skill does not paid as most academic Skills. Look at professional jobs that pay well.

[@SenseiLlama]

@@TheFalseShepphard I didn't want to be mean.

[@legolas66106]

@@EnzBank If you are a 'professional' you really should learn how to participate better in this international economy. When my English, a 'lowly' Dutch trades worker, is better than yours, you are kind off a joke. Also you are mistaken, at least where I live, with the current shortage of trades(wo)men in my country, we regularly make more than Bachelor educated people, although at the very end the earning ceiling is still in favour for the college educated people, but not many get there anyway.

[@brytonmunro5270]

…?? Where? In Canada trades are at college, not university.

[@crishnaholmes7730]

@@brytonmunro5270America

[@xXGreatKilla]

It's very frustrating how predatory and coercive the higher education system in the USA is. Not only are we pressuring minors into applying for college without even suggesting trades as an option, but once they get there, we're giving them a license to make massive, life altering, financial decisions. If you ask me, the "exit counseling" that I received AFTER I had taken out my student loans, would've much better served me if I had gotten it before taking out loans. I'm sure it varies from place to place, but that was my experience graduating high school in 2016. So many simple, seemingly obvious regulations would help alleviate a lot of this predatory bullshit. Make sure students are educated on the opportunities in trades and options outside of college through mandatory education in high-school. Then have them take a basic financial course on how loans work and what it really means for their future to take these loans out.

[@Priinsu]

It doesn't take any special education to avoid falling into this trap. All you need is basic math and just a little bit of foresight.

[@nuxxism]

@@Priinsu Foresight is something almost no one has at age 18, the typical age when secondary education is completed. You are not physically or mentally mature yet, have very little life experience, but you're supposed to decide a career path that will govern the rest of your life? And no take-backs or mistakes allowed. It's ridiculous that we as a society force that on to kids. Even if you get it all right - you choose training in a skillset you enjoy, are good at, and is in demand - that can all change by the time you leave your 2+ years training. Even the best foresight is not future sight.

[@noel7777noel]

There is a reason they don't call it blue collar crime. It's always the white collar not happy enough with their greater salary. Then they get together to do white collar financial crimes. I think the investors investing in griffin goods is more evil than the investors investing in Veblen Goods to exploit narcissism. To exploit the products the blue collar workers must have. As not-for-profit banking is legal. Do you see the pivot from brining a product to the masses by not-for-profit banking to for-profit banking. Blue collar workers don't get together to do white collar financial crimes. It's called white collar crime for a reason. The FBI should talk to all the waitresses serving the white collar criminals. The ones who sit around a table at these white-collar private resorts, and tell the FBI about what financial crimes were being discussed.

[@Priinsu]

@@nuxxism I'm not into making excuses for people who are clearly capable of thinking. 18yo is plenty old enough to figure out "this thing I want costs $30k-$80k, how am I going to pay for this? Where is the money going to come from? What does "X" mean and why?, how does this math play out" I was literally a B's and C's student all throughout school and I figured out this wasn't a good deal my freshman year in highschool and adjusted my plan accordingly. But, you're telling me A students couldn't figure this out because they're "immature" and have "no life experience" give me a break. 😒

[@Priinsu]

@@The_Funguseater Even so, they can't do any of this without your consent. They're not forcing people to sign up for these loans.

[@sbailey977]

I did university after high school because i didn't yet know what I wanted to do with my life. Completed my degree but never used it for employment in that field. No regrets though as it gave me the skills to teach myself what ever i needed for my future careers.

[@schrenk-d]

It actually bothers me that this specific subject is not something that taught on its own.

[@squirrelgolem]

dito

[@doujinflip]

That's really the point of education, teaching you how to learn. OJT is what actually makes you productive.

[@mihalydesposito5466]

Exactly! all the time of the video I was wondering about an implicit assumption EE is making in the video: namely that a degree teaches you what you need to know for a high skilled job. Which is simply not true: most people I hear say their degree was totally useless for the job they do, and companies will also require years of intenship before hiring you full pay after even a masters'. Does this mean the time has been wasted? Not at all, ideally education is a form of teaching one how to approach the word in a more constructive way, aka learn how to learn and develop your knowledge by yourself in the field you are going to work in. Sadly that is not something every university and program has clear which led to a whacky perception of education and the idea of overqualification itself. I don't think there is such a thing as overqualification, as long as we are not talking about something extreem like a cashier with a masters, only societal perceptions on jobs that are more or less prestigious and degrees that are totally pointless in developing someone critical thinking.

[@sojourner99]

What you did all depends on cost. I did same thing two decades ago and came out with 20k in debt. Basically a cheap car payment. I then figured things out a bit and went to grad school that cost me another 40k debt, so 60k total. A lot but again, a luxury car payment that i could pay off over 10 to 15 years at low interest, doable. I had an intern couple years ago that did the same 6 years of school as me at private uni at 50k a year and he has 300k debt now. Basically a house mortgage but with no house.

[@shadeblackwolf1508]

I see this problem around me for sure. Physical labor is stigmatized and underpaid, which results in everyone wanting to be in the high education jobs. It should balance out when the pay disparity normalizes and people can live better on physical jobs. ofcourse it also takes time for that to work its way through the education system.

[@michelleflood8871]

Say that to the business owners and boomers, they hate it when politicians try to rise minimum wage. While young people cheer for increasing minimum wage (including me and I have 2 degrees).

[@baronvonjo1929]

Not to mention many older folks who do physical labor jobs all there lives have lots of issues. It's pretty bad. I work with a lot of them and they are miserable. I really can't justify a physical labor job for my entire life seeing all of them.

[@Bvggerffpls]

Personally, I would rather not work a physical labor job for health reasons. I would only make exceptions for roles in the military or fire and rescue service. Lot's of people who spent their lives doing physical labor tend to be maintain a good level of physical robustness and health into old age and the physical activity probably helps. On the other hand, many also become obese alcoholics who take opiates to deal with the chronic pain of work related wear and tear on their backs/joints. I feel like I would end up in the latter category. In addition, what happens if you get injured outside of work? Bye bye livelihood and no compensatory pay. No salary could convince me to commit my working life to physical labor willingly. It would only ever be a last resort. There's a reason many civilizations delegated manual labor to slaves. Many roles that fall into this category should be done by machines and robots. The human body can only take so much

[@yurisonovab3892]

Society needs to start respecting lower positions for that to happen. They'd rather create an under class and force them to work the poor jobs while also blaming them for all of society's problems.

[@benlubbers4943]

@@Bvggerffpls Funny story I worked with robots and machines as a CNC operator for about a decade. You still got plenty of physical exercise around the things (lifting a machine vice of 30kg is a common occurence). Not to mention the chips, the oil, the chips, the grease, the chips, and the dust which is partially chips. Point is, full automation is not going to happen in our lifetime, so frankly speaking expect to pay more for physical labour - you don't want to do it, plenty of people like you are out there, so the list of candidates is short and keeps shortening.

[@me0101001000]

I have a BS and MS in engineering, and am doing a PhD in chemistry because I am extremely passionate about my field, and I also just need the formal training for the work I want to do. My opinion when it comes to uni is that it's only worth it if that kind of training is mandatory for your field AND you are passionate about it. You need both.

[@spendleton360]

You’re clearly a highly intelligent individual. How would you communicate this message to an unintelligent individual who simply doesn’t want to spend the rest of his life washing dishes or breaking his back putting roofs on peoples’ houses?

[@me0101001000]

@@spendleton360 well, first of all, please don't consider yourself to be unintelligent. You are probably far more intelligent than you give yourself credit for. All you need is the chance to demonstrate it. Second, what do you want to do with your life? It's good to know what you don't want, sure, but you need to find what you do. A good place to start is some diligent reading and soul searching. If not the majority, the lion's share of knowledge is available online for only the price of an internet connection. Maybe seek out a therapist and/or life coach if you have the means. Additionally, if you have the extra time and energy, try to find problems in your community and work on solutions. Most good business ideas come from solving a problem of some kind.

[@Hunterchuck]

Most people go to college because they've been lead to believe that you have to have a degree to make any money. The reality of how the economy really works is very different, but this economic channel gets it totally wrong unfortunately. Some of the most unintelligent and uneducated people are the ones that own major international companies. Also, people don't need to have a specialized degree to run a simple business and make a decent living.

[@dwargonedragon794]

@@Hunterchuck Running a simple business is quite the gamble tho. You can go under anytime. And college has plenty of trades courses, doing trades is way better than low skilled manual labor. For sure tho, you can make decent money on trades but it's also a big gamble. Some trades folk didn't make it: died/perma disabled, in extreme pain, addicted to drugs/alcohol, etc. Getting a practical university degree is still the most ideal. But it only works if you are passionate about it, has connections (like a relative who you can apprentice or work for), a family background (parents are also on that profession and can guide you), and some experience working on a job related to your degree (like doing construction before taking up civil engineering)

[@Hunterchuck]

@@dwargonedragon794 Running a small business isn't really a gamble though, and i'm speaking as a small business owner. The problem that many will likely face when starting a business would be the fact that markets are already plenty saturated. For example, starting a burger shop will be difficult because finding a spot where traffic is high is slim pickings. Not only that but there are already plenty of other burger shops that people already stick to. And your second point is exactly the point i was making about the problem with how our economy works. There's a lot of impractical nonsense that overcomplicates what does not need to be complicating.

[@shawnquintal8158]

Don't forget that education continu after school. Education is what make human great and simply the act of opening a book, listening to a youtube video or talk to someone to learn something new will always improve your life.

[@mikehurt3290]

Honestly I use to regret not going to college thinking I would never get a good job but now I'm older with a good paying job I'm so glad I never went

[@itsbeyondme5560]

What .....a bagger ahaha

[@Dexter01992]

I don't think younglings are "overeducated". I just think schools prioritize excessively stuff that most of them won't use once adult. Sure, general knowledge is necessary, some stuff are necessary to be qualified in universities, but having worked 10 years in a factory right after high school I can tell many mechanical engineers fresh from university were taught to make crippling overcomplicated solutions that a tecnician actually producing the components would easily find ways to simplify. Another friend currently finishing university told me University makes people used to vastly overcomplicated "worst case scenarios", to the point students are constantly finding the most complex possible solution as it's the best way to impress the professor. But in a work environment, this is a pure nightmare coworker to have around.

[@xynyde0]

lack of practical experience

[@mariosblago94]

One of the basic tenets of science is parsimony, or in less pretentious words, "keep it simple, stupid." Some professors seem to forget that in the pursuit of critical thinking.

[@xynyde0]

@@mariosblago94 tenets*

[@mariosblago94]

@@xynyde0 thanks!

[@mathisnotforthefaintofheart]

There is a mistake in your analogy. An engineer does not do the same job as a technician. An engineer designs stuff, a technician manufacturers or repairs stuff. You don't ask a technician to design a new MRI machine, and you don't ask an electrical engineer to operate one on a patient. But an MRI machine does not see the day light without (electrical) engineers and patients cannot receive medical care without technicians operating those machines. An engineer and a technician are two totally different things

[@parker9012]

A real problem that i doesn't think you mentioned is the way we tend to lump all college degrees together. A ba in art has completely different demands, and job prospects, compared to a bs in petroleum engineering.

[@spendleton360]

Agreed. Another aspect not discussed is that most people are dumb and can’t do the mental work necessary to achieve a degree in petroleum engineering and other fields. It’s the dumb people who are suffering the most, taking on loads of debt for useless degrees. Unfortunately, we don’t have enough well paying jobs for dumb people to do nowadays, so everyone chooses to take a gamble with college.

[@TWE_2000]

I don't know why this is such a hard concept for people to understand. Most people with a bs in engineering or computer science aren't struggling with paying off student debt, even if they have a huge amount. Its those with a ba in sociology or history that are facing a job market where the supply is much greater than the demand

[@internalizedhappyness9774]

Stem lords are easier to exploit than artist! Their the one who think their better than art!

[@ayanpandeydpsn-std9005]

@@TWE_2000 We 'll i'll see, many people are making this same argument about ba degrees throughout ages. I always think that it is a flawed comparison trying to compare an academic field like history with a professional field like engineering. People only are trying to focus on the concept of 'demand' . However, more demand = / = more money. There are other factors which can determine the success of an individual. On an average , an engineer at most can expect to live an upper middle class family and can expect to pay of his entire student debt by 1-10 years. Being an historian is mixed up , either you can become a millionaire by self publishing books and expect to pay your student debt by very less time or can be worst -dirt poor depending on your capabilities. It's not that I totally disagree with you but there is more to the demand analogy than meets the eye .

[@patt5085]

@@TWE_2000 Surely you barely worked in many corporates. I have STEM degree and sometimes I envy those admins, HR, and PM which require in every company where they earn a decent living for the hours they put in, no constant learning or stress outside office hours. Just having a degree already open a lot of doors if you know where to look.

[@NinjaMan47]

One of the worst things schools drum into you is that college is *guaranteed* to increase your lifetime earnings.

[@ironeagle4274]

The avg college professional income trajectory is higher. Also, the more years of higher edu, the lower the unemployment rate.

[@t-bone9239]

nah because it is just facts. Without a Uni degree u immediately hit the glass ceiling

[@gabbar51ngh]

More like to get a decent job you need education but it's kinda true. High school dropouts being successful is pretty rare. Most successful entrepreneurs are pretty educated in most cases.

[@tonynunez6539]

The Republicans will make sure white supremacist make more money and minorities work for minimum wage.

[@ynat2198]

These are really just facts, it actually does allow you access to jobs you would be unable to even apply to without a college degree. It may not be the case 100% but the numbers have consistently shown that for many many people this is the case.

[@maoatreyu]

I have been an English teacher for about 12 years and I have lived in a few countries. I can confidently say that people are UNDER-educated. What they are is indoctrinated (not necessarily politically, but yes, also that as well). Let me give 2 examples that have nothing to do with politics. I have and have had many students from countries like Colombia and Turkey. In the case of Colombia, I have lost count (if I had to guess, it would be 2 per year), of how many students say without anyone asking them that they have university diplomaS, but when asked to do some basic arithmetic -,÷, etc they can't. For those who think this is a lie or an exaggeration: NO! In the case of Turkey, engineers are prepared to be part engineers, but mostly administrators and this behavior is reflected in other aspects such as the tally of the 2023 earthquakes: 50,000 dead, but more shockingly 160,000 buildings collapsed! In both cases, they know how to perform certain tasks from their career, but have almost no capacity for critical thinking or as this video says "to give added value." If their is any spark of progress in them, they are given loads of unpaid overtime, so stagnation is guaranteed. Of course, in the US it's even worse thanks to political indoctrination. The specifics change, but the pattern is the same almost everywhere: get in dept to get your diploma, use your brain only when and for what we tell you to use it and do not advance humanity or your field. Truly educated people, that is extremely rare to find!!!!

[@LukeVilent]

I used to teach math at a European university. One of my students from Asia Pacific region was sent by his professor to get the first semester in algebra. He had masters in computer science and went for a PhD.

[@kathyrosysy911]

I'm from Colombia and I agree with everything you have said. Colombia has many schools and colleges with low levels of education so this contributes to create a lot of people that as they say in my country "they pass for "passing", not for learning". A crazy mix of low government investment in primary and secondary education, many poorly paid teachers who teach so bad, many poor people who don't have resources to have school supplies, internet (and if they have it, they do not know how to use it to learn because nobody teaches them xd), and after school tutoring (boy, this is a luxury from rich people here), little or nothing attention to mental health, normalization of problems and domestic violence and low student motivation, made (and make) that a lot of people have serious problems with learning and constantly needs repeat like a "parrots". Even I have an undergraduate degree in business administration, but I have a lot of problems to do maths operations except addition, subtraction and multiplication (with division I'm worse) because the horrible education I had. I had many classmates in college who were also in the same situation and some of them even studied and worked at the same time in different jobs (from operative to mid-level professional like supervisor, some programming, human resources, accounting, etc). This guy is not lying unfortunately :(. Sorry for my English, I'm not a native speaker and I haven't taken classes for a long time, bye

[@LukeVilent]

@@kathyrosysy911 About 15 years ago, I have been doing my PhD alongside with quite a few people from Colombia. They were at least as good as the other, some were nothing short of brilliant. Obviously, we all are in our late 30s and early 40s now, and I hoped the situation in Colombia was about to improve...

[@kwyatt261]

"Never let schooling interfere with your education." - Mark Twain

[@vib_di]

A wise man quoted "Don't let schooling/college to interfere with your education." I think it's better to say over-degree or over-schooling but not Over-educated. I believe "one can only be self-educated, not over-educated".

[@GiRR007]

College isnt even about education anymore, degrees for most people just shows that they commited to doing something for 4 years.

[@TheBweerny]

Also, don't mix over-education with over-specialization. One is actually very good for society in general.

[@sor3999]

Ok, but I think he's made it clear he's talking about what you call schooling. Let's not get all twisted over semantics.

[@ishangautam6269]

Mark Twain said that " I never let my schooling interfere with my education". thanks for reminding me such a wonderful quote. its so true even back in his time.

[@heronimousbrapson863]

Universities are expensive. Perhaps we need to find alternative means of educating people, such as a return to apprenticeships. We also have to stop demanding for job candidates with degrees if the occupation doesn't really require one.

[@007kingifrit]

we could just make chat AI teach millions of people at once in virtual lectures

[@itsbeyondme5560]

Dumbest comment 🙄

[@Itachi-lz7kv]

Virtual classes were one teacher teaches 1000s at the same time or recorded ones could work too

[@007kingifrit]

@@Itachi-lz7kv A.I can answer every student in real time, it has no downsides

[@Itachi-lz7kv]

@@007kingifrit ofc ai is good but they need to make sure it ain't imagining answers and also people need to start trusting and using it. That can take some time

[@XoloYT]

I think what turns so many people (more specifically young Americans) off from going to college is both the price and length of degrees/ college education while also providing an outdated academic system that does not work anymore. When I was going to college I would always question why a textbook was $300, or why 50% of my classes I was required to take actually had to do with my major and the other 50% was just unrelated, and elective fluff. A lot of times I felt also like I was never learning anything as one week we'd be learning one topic, taking a quiz by the end of the week on said topic, and then moving on to something else quickly while repeating the same processes. I personally believe (with the except of some fields) that school does not need to be as long or as expensive as it currently is, and the acadamia needs to focus on teaching their students up to date skills that will actually prepare them for a job rather then college being a high school 2.0 with an adult daycare expansion pack.

[@GOATMENTATOR]

Here in Latvia there are set amount of free university scolarships based on demand that fluctuates each year. For example there may be 60 spots for becoming an environmental scientist but thousands of spots for IT. Overall this works atleast somewhat and everyone can get some education. Those who did the best in highschool will have the first choice and those who did worse will have an oppurtunity to enroll in what's left.

[@ewanlee6337]

This sounds like the best way to do it.

[@leandersearle5094]

That's fairly reasonable, but what metrics are the school systems grading on, and do those match well to the hypothetical industries that need them?

[@ewanlee6337]

@@leandersearle5094 those are separate issues that are present in all education systems.

[@leandersearle5094]

@@ewanlee6337 I don't see how they're separate.

[@ewanlee6337]

@@leandersearle5094 the system GOATMENTATOR mentioned is to get more students in the degrees that are in demand by only funding what is in demand and so have fewer people wasting their time and money doing a degree that they won’t use. You questioned the high school grading system which is seperate and an issue all universities deal with because no university just lets anyone into anything. I am also assumed that your second question was asking if the high school tests match with industry and that’s not about having too many students in the wrong industries. As for how the university knows what’s in demand? Most universities have close relationships with industry leaders and industry leaders tell the universities what they want and they can also see by finding out how many students from previous cohorts got jobs that involve their degree.

[@benx2230]

"People spending their time doing something they would rather not" is the very definition of employment.

[@swegatron2859]

Plenty of ppl are doing exactly what they want with the bonus of getting payed for it. That’s kind of a doomer definition

[@DanielWieser]

@@swegatron2859 And yet, most people would disagree.

[@leandersearle5094]

Speak for yourself, but I'd say it's a better definition of commuting.

[@user-jk2zm7uq5s]

Unless you commute by bicycle then the commute is the most fun part of your day ;) (Caveats: in favourable weather conditions with an appropriate length and bearable bicycle infrastructure - may not apply to YOUR commute)

[@maxgerrit]

@@swegatron2859 statistics show that 70% of people are not happy with their job and would rather do something else. 70%

[@megapeiron]

In Brazil we are in trouble since the government started financing University students. Now we have millions of lawyers that can't find job or have lower wages, millions of unemployed engineers and etc. Lower educated jobs like informatics ones are paying higher salaries and the people started to leave University to become technicals.

[@marcc1179]

the job market decides why people should study...very fair...In China, students with a degree of laws also find it hard to get a satisfactory salary.

[@KaldekBoch]

Someone from Poland told me that they have great engineers because "University is free, and if you're useless you just get kicked out". Hence - those who make it are actually good. Personally, I have indeed noticed that Poland seems to produce a high quality of skilled engineering folks, particularly mechanical and electrical engineers. I wonder how that factors into the arguments about free tertiary education.

[@HCforLife1]

I think this is mostly caused by the widespread of high schools profiled in engineering (especially those you mentioned). People going to those schools are often passionate, and they learn all the basics before going to uni. Degrees are not always the indicator of qualifications, but they help a lot. I have no degree, but working as a software engineer in Poland. But it's rare - most people working finished uni.

[@smitty2821]

Almost impossible to achieve in America. The left wants free education, but wouldn't want to kick out under-performers if they're minorities or economically disadvantaged. And the right doesn't want free education.

[@mathisnotforthefaintofheart]

We are not over educated. We are UNDER educated. There is a severe problem in knowledgeable people in all sorts of fields. In the trades, in medicine, in engineering etc. There are degree programs that are worthless and then there are degree programs that are great. I do believe that certain Master's programs could be converted into a 4 year BA program and a lot of BA programs could be associates, in particular in the softer fields. But there is a severe shortage in people with "know-how" in many many fields. So we do have too many degrees, which is a different thing.

[@Misaka-gt5yj]

I guarantee you, philosophy, ethics, theology and ethnic studies majors are quite useless. Unfortunately those classes are being forced as requirements for all majors just to graduate. It takes the place of important major related classes that would be far more useful.

[@Cons-Cat]

​@@Misaka-gt5yjYou are obviously not a college grad if you don't know which humanities are and are not required. I for one actually have a bachelor's degree and did not take any of those. The humanities I had to take were mythology, English literature, psychology for non-majors, and uh probably some others I'm forgetting off-paw, but none of what you mentioned.

[@softwetbread248]

​@@Misaka-gt5yjThe liberal arts curriculum is a staple of US higher ed. Specifically because it is supposed to foster critical thinking skills to allow a person, no matter their field of study, be able to be a well function individual. Those requirements are kinda meant so that you dont just become a mindless worker. But neoliberal schooling has worked to make them as useless as possible.

[@doujinflip]

​@@Misaka-gt5yj​​Humanities are what help prevent STEM folks from becoming completely mad scientists with no consideration of what other humans actually care about. Also helps them organize and present information in a way that non-technical people (especially managers and executives who are way more likely to have studied something _not_ in STEM) could understand and appreciate.

[@NinjaMan47]

I recall the biggest issue with employing college graduates is a mismatch between what schools teach in the theoretical and what a job would require of them. It leads to employers being hesitant to hire someone with no actual work experience, not even a part time job to prove they can handle a work load.

[@kurtuhlig2553]

Hence, the job experience required portion of job listings.

[@doujinflip]

Schools are meant to teach _how_ to think, as in the ability to find and analyze valid information. If what companies want is specific job training, they should provide the OJT themselves again.

[@joncarter3761]

I agree, degrees were made worthless in the UK to the point some jobs won't even look at your CV unless you get a first or do a master's degree. It sounded (to voters at the time) as a way to give their children a fairer shot at higher wage jobs but just ended up devaluing the degree with many graduates never leaving their student jobs and not making enough money to pay their loans back until it is forgiven after 25 years. My sister is a fully qualified teacher yet was still working at a supermarket after finishing her teacher training, she then got a dispenser qualification when she transferred to their in store pharmacy... Her degree was a complete waste of £30,000 and her talents and she now works for the Police, never once using her University qualifications. She graduated in 2008 and finished her training in 2010, it's only gotten worse since then. There's nothing wrong with education but we need to cut the snobbery towards vocation based qualifications that teach you how to do specific jobs like modern apprenticeships and NVQs.

[@LudosErgoSum]

I totally agree. A degree only prove that you can read books, remember stuff and write papers. Actual skills come from real world experience. Higher education should be a supplement to your skills and experience, not supplant any ability to build skills in the first place and provide value to yourself and society when doing so.

[@xstaticgurlxx]

I have a masters degree and no one cares 😳

[@luciusseneca2715]

Because Higher Ed became such a fixation of policy makers in the US, the universities were slammed full of unqualified or unprepared students. Teaching them real college-level material would be bad for retention, so universities watered down the curriculum to make it harder to flunk out. The old general education curriculum was thrown out in favor of "innovative and impactful courses for student success," or schlock classes that are impossible to fail. Now, much of a university education in the US is a complete waste of time.

[@jaad9848]

It's because corporations were lobbying for this emphasis to flood the supply side of educated workers which would obviously lead to wages dropping. Most "worker shortages in X" are intended to lower the wages of X.

[@yanggang4352]

Best comment here

[@edmundtan8506]

Same with other countries as well

[@VirtualnomadVirtualnomad]

In my home country pretty much everyone has a higher education. Put it simply a university degree is basically a product. Universities are themselves are super easy to graduate as long as you can pay for your tuition and bother to give at least some of the efforts. Moving to Germany on the other hand it is quite opposite, Universities are pretty challenging and students need to actually study and work hard for years to graduate.

[@anon2034]

Where are you from?

[@VirtualnomadVirtualnomad]

@@anon2034 Mongolia

[@michelleflood8871]

It is a problem in my country too, if universities are difficult to complete then degrees would mean A LOT. But nope some people graduated while they can’t even do basic math, I heard.

[@VirtualnomadVirtualnomad]

@@michelleflood8871 Yep, as a result tuition is skyrocketing and hard working students who can not pay it actually dropout. Where as the nation is full of "educated" morons.

[@samiamgreeneggsandham7587]

I can’t recommend Bryan Caplan’s book “The Case Against Education” strongly enough. He’s a little long-winded, but the points he makes are strong. I’d say his argument holds true across higher Ed in all English-speaking countries: For most disciplines, a degree confers only a signalling effect that the person was (at best) smart and/or diligent enough to be admitted to the university, and that time spent in a degree program has no direct correlation with acquisition of valuable skills or knowledge.

[@catvergueiro8905]

Exactly

[@WhatWillYouFind]

Thats the thing though. Either you become a wage slave because of leaving college with loans and then you are the perfect option for employers due to your desperation. OR, you leave university without debt and you suddenly have options abroad or out of state because no all jobs require experience, but quite a few good ones require a degree and also the inverse so you have to be as you put it . . . diligent so you are well rounded. The goal of university is to release people upon the world who are well rounded, at least it was when I went not too long ago.

[@superkingoftacos2920]

We are under educated. The most important things are not being taught. The things that are taught are taught poorly. Once we get our university degree, we stop getting educated, which has lead to a massive disconnect between older and younger generations.

[@legolas66106]

Which is kind of weird, especially in the USA, where you need to constantly upskill and learn to stay competitive in a professional field.

[@AFNick]

The problem is that a lot of the value of college was derived simply from having a small percentage of people having degrees. When college became mainstream, college graduates became oversupplied.

[@corypeterson8337]

In the U.S. especially, it's drilled into your head from at least the beginning of high school that you NEED to go to the most expensive four year school you can find, and that two year tech schools/apprenticeships, etc for example are almost beneath you.

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

At least if you're middle class or higher.

[@thebestcentaur]

Spot on. If you come from affluent areas like I and many of my high school classmates did, blue-collar work won't even be touched upon in our classes. It's essentially expected that college is your number one option or bust-rather than vocational training, we had PSAT and AP classes galore. (To be fair, my PUBLIC high school has a reputation for sending kids to VERY prestigious schools. The valedictorian my freshman year went to Stanford, and his brother went to Notre Dame. In my class alone, people went to Harvard, UC Berkeley, Johns Hopkins, Rice, Cornell, Georgia Tech, and good ol' UT since we were in Texas. Even the less academically inclined kids often wound up at the local university sooner or later. Unless someone at my high school was HISTORICALLY awful at school, their ending up in blue-collar work would be the stuff of their parents' nightmares.)

[@Alex_FRD]

Yes, the market is now saturated with overqualified candidates who are desperate to get even a minimum wage job to start paying off their debts. Meanwhile, since everyone has a BA now, it's completely worthless and most employers are raising their standards to "Must have Master's Degree", causing even more overqualified candidates and more debt.

[@brazghost]

Everyone that did pointless majors like art, theater and useless stuff

[@ebubechiibegbula5968]

Honestly this is why people should not study a subject without practical skills without getting practical skills....

[@samelmudir]

Should be encouraging a gap year or three after high school now. Try a couple jobs or interest. if it requires a degree/diploma/certificate to advance, then get it.

[@doujinflip]

That's Mainland China right now, where they're facing a glut of graduates right as the rest of the globe divests from the PRC. Youth unemployment nowadays is at "20%" (i.e. more like 30~40%).

[@bradleydougherty1768]

Lots of useless degrees out there... degrees like accounting are still useful. People with these degrees still get paid. Mean while degrees like gender and women's studies never were useful. And these individuals still get paid.... to work at Starbucks

[@mrb152]

What's amazing is all of the graduates who think their degrees mean they are smarter or know more on every topic than just the average person. As someone with a B.A. and J.D., I can't imagine how someone could believe that. Those seven years of education exposed me to some of the most ignorant and closed-minded people I have ever met, and they were often the professors.

[@erykszymanski9167]

Ironically, academics can be some of the dumbest people you'll ever meet

[@damien2198]

@@erykszymanski9167 That s why they earn peanuts

[@dmfaccount1272]

​@@damien2198they earn significantly higher than twice the average salary in most countries?

[@damien2198]

@@dmfaccount1272 look at the salary full time at 40yo not the one that include part time/kids/almost retirees. These guys earn very little before their 30s. In Australia, lecturers earn a very median salary for their age (around $AUD100k). peanuts.

[@dmfaccount1272]

@@damien2198 there is no way 100k is an average salary in Australia... Are you comparing them to movie stars and venture capitalists?

[@199Bubi]

I studied mechanical engineering and focused more on economics during my masters degree. Currently I am working as a "lean manager" trying to optimize production in high cost countries. That doesn't mean swinging a whip faster but I'd say it boils down to improving working conditions so much, that people enjoy work more by it being more ergonomic and efficient. If no one likes to do the work you can either improve pay (which isn't an option with cheaper alternatives) or you can improve processes and working conditions so much, that the output per dollar matches the one in developing countries.

[@Mixhellangelo]

Despite what I have been told all my life, I have always felt that the education I had, although basic, was enough to give me the necessary tools to live well. When I graduated from university, I felt a lot of uncertainty that if I didn't get into debt to continue studying, I wasn't going to achieve anything. Today, almost 10 years later, I have a family and a business, as well as a stable job and of everything I have achieved I can say that 20% I owe to having studied 4 years at a university. Today more than ever I realize the central theme of this video is a crucial issue to discuss in all families and as a society, and how much the economies idealize this idea of ​​studying and studying as the only way to live happily.

[@TheAURELIANITO]

This video is just a very clear example of the difference between price and value, and how things are twisted when they are not distinguished properly.

[@Stories4SaleMedia]

"Diamonds are more valuable than water."

[@TheAURELIANITO]

@@Stories4SaleMedia yeah, that's what I am referring to.

[@2SNesbit]

One issue is that individuals make choices about a post-high school education at 18 (or even earlier due to the university application process), but the need for that specific field of education can vary over time as the economy (and the world) change throughout a 50 year work life. I have heard that more than 50% of university graduates work outside their major subject. Technically I never worked in my major field (Physics). I have worked as a teacher, engineer, operations research analyst, systems analyst and coordinator, project manager, team leader, and manager... and think that what I learned in my major field gave me the basic skill set for each of those jobs and I added additional skills through experience. My issue with many university majors is that the siloed nature of the skills learned limits the ability of graduates to work outside of their major.

[@cfromnowhere]

And universal skills are often undervalued!

[@darthutah6649]

University is ideal for an economy of specialization. If you're going to be applying your skills to a narrow range, having a college degree will leave you with more education. However, if you're going to be connecting general fields to come up with something new, university will be more of a waste.

[@MsJubjubbird]

That is true too. Mining is a huge deal in Australia. When I was first at university, so many of my friends studied degrees in things like engineering, geology, mathematics, earth science, environmental science etc. to get a job on the mines and earn large salaries. But between them starting and graduating, the mining sector shrunk greatly and only one of them works in the field- and it took them years and years to get that job. People have told me to go and work on the mines as a PT but I know a recession is coming and those jobs will be cut.

[@cfromnowhere]

@@MsJubjubbird That is modern automated mining, which needs extensive technological knowledge and training that still requires a Bachelor of Science degree. The type of mining that many Chernobyl liquidators did before the disaster is only seen in the poorest countries in the world now.

[@user-jk2zm7uq5s]

Yes and no: sure, there's the "a pandemic is happening - if you know what a virus is you are hired!" situation. However, generally speaking it's obvious from the beginning where the demand is and where it isn't. (Hint: if there is lots of math there generally is high demand and little supply, if it is the humanities it is the exact opposite.)

[@Tsum1923]

"...spent their entire lives doing something they'd rather not." When it comes to jobs he just described nearly the entire work force.

[@nimi-nae]

I am always talking about how we need to raise the bar of our base education, so students getting out of high school are able to do many jobs we currently require college for. A lot of what is covered in school here in the US is not really useful in today's world, or is lacking the context of application. Apprenticeships and specialization programs could make better use of those early school years.

[@nunyabidness3075]

I’m surprised you didn’t touch on the signal versus actual education value problem. Perhaps another video. There’s a lot of academics now questioning whether the value of a degree isn’t almost exclusively based on the fact of what school one could get into and the networking it provides. So few programs actually give people real knowledge and training, we’d be better off if everyone just went to work.

[@chrisaguilera1564]

There is education and then there's skills. You need education to engage in a career like a doctor but being taught skills for a job like a hvac tech leads to a job that becomes your career.

I much rather like to approach labour market from an economic point of view: supply and demand. By default higher skilled workers are more scarce, so demand (salaries) end up being higher. When population is higher educated skilled workers are not scarce anymore, so their salaries won't be that different either. In fact as highly skilled workforce unwilling to do jobs that require less education, lower skilled jobs become better paid due to scarcity of labour.

[@alwynwatson6119]

I suppose that's why schools exist to put a limit on education so that high-skill jobs remain highly paid.

@@alwynwatson6119 schools have incentives to get as many students as they can get seated.

[@aomorzon]

@ that's unfortunate because ideally there should be high standards to make sure every university graduate is extremely competent but that doesn't seem to be the case

@@aomorzon it has nothing to do with competence, there are lots of uni dropouts.

[@aomorzon]

@ we have lots of drop outs because students are too incompetent.

[@Ishkur23]

Ah, the ole "The world needs ditch diggers so if everyone becomes a physicist who's going to dig the ditches?" argument. Well we're already on our way to solving that problem -- the Shovelbot 5000 is on its way. Therefore in the future what we require are more Shovelbot programmers.

[@mateyp3365]

Awesome, but it seems we're closer to creating the BestArtBot, or the WriteEverythingBot, or the CodeBot. The diggers might be safer in this regard.

[@tinthaung7118]

😎

[@ngahang0213]

Well as student who still study at high school, l can relate to this. Some of my classmates who perform good at school up till now still don't know what their goal is, or which university they want to enroll on. School teaches them lots of lessons but provide (almost) nothing about future career, so they feel lost. There are more and more methods to enter a university too... and that really stress us out. I once wondered why l have to learn all those lessons if l only want to pass the exams and l have no passion for all the subjects

[@stischer47]

As I was detemining what to study in college, having parents who lived through the Great Depression, I took what I liked and figured out how I could get a job with those skills. As a college prof, when I ran into philosophy majors (for example), I would ask what they planned to do with the degree. 99% of them said they just liked philosophy and would worry about a job when they graduated. Sigh.

[@fluttzkrieg4392]

I am living proof as to why overeducation isn't 100% good for a country. I'm a low skilled migrant worker in Japan. I can only be here because all the 20-something (my age) Japanese don't want to do my job because they're all highly educated. Lucky for me though. The quality of life is 100x times better here than in my country even with the severe language barrier and long hours I work every day.

[@user-cc1so5tq2p]

May I know your home country ?

[@kobaltapollodorus8922]

And what kind of work do you do?

[@peterheinzo515]

username says german, but we also lack basic workers here and the quality of life is not really lower i think? /edit: stalked his comment history, its brazil

[@619ry7]

What a chad. More power to you money he is sending back home as remmatince is helping his family eventually leads to better quality of living.

[@619ry7]

​@@peterheinzo515 I assumed he is from Indian subcontinent. Why would German go to Japan for basic labour activity

[@PunicAtSchool]

I love your videos, just plain sinple appreciation for your work.

[@rvs1]

Very much happening in the Netherlands. People with practical degrees in some areas earn clearly more than highly educated people in other areas.

[@MusizBesties]

I don't think that's true. In some wokes countries(like France), the global point of view of governments is that you are always "too much educated", and in the same time also always "not enough educated"(see the math level recrimination in France to understand my point on this aspect)(And in the same time, the huge amount of people refused in math degrees! To the argument they are already "too much educated"). In a way they are never happy. And always it is used to get more immigration, and not helping companies to grow and not augmenting/increasing salary in every country. Which is augmenting discrimination(if you are not from the country vs if you are). Which in the end, is increasing economic downfall of the country vs the others on earth level(inhabitants who did not do that like China or Korea do much better, even if they start to do that as well xD). With people living in the street, increasing of inequalities. And people starting to commit murders(like what's happening right now in EU) like it is in the US. As people start to understand egalitarian word/concept only works if you are foreigner, black, women, gay, uneducated or anything related to something that can be viewed as a discrimination. And in this huge shifting of EU society, the brotherhood of islamism that is florishing from victimisation is florishing 2 times faster! With Al-Qaida terrorist attacks alike at the end.(With people hating their country much more than ever before in the recent history)(with patriotism viewed as a quality in US vs a shame in France as viewed by government as a sort of populism).

[@uhadme]

Are YOU educating me about over education? Perfect

[@penitent2401]

Not everyone can be $200k a year doctor/engineer/whatever, Australia is getting a problem where people refuses to go for jobs they considered beneath them and sits on unemployment or just skip through 5 different jobs a month instead, leaving a job when they find any little thing they don't like or unwilling to learn. Immigrants and foreign workers fills many of these jobs

[@78Mathius]

In the US, we have a severe shortage of young trades people. Plumbers, electricians, etc... are going to be in extreme short supply within a decade.

[@eiwo323s]

Very important aspect that he did not go over was artificial intelligence. This will also severely alter modern higher level education.

[@GiRR007]

hope so

[@SangoProductions213]

Easiest way to reverse the trend? No more nationally-guaranteed debt. Easy. Less easy: Give actual financial education to students so they can critically think about their roles in life.

[@oldporkchops]

This was a great balance between the theoretical (which I'm familiar with) and the practical, without delving on the overly theoretical aspects of education. Well done striking the right equilibrium.

[@JoelReid]

Australia is interesting because the government regulates the number of students by funding courses differently. Those degrees in higher demand have a greater percentage of their course costs subsidised. This changes occasionally depending on the job demand.

[@MrLeedebt]

I am Australian, I was talking to a lawyer from Britain, she was amazed at how few years of study she endured to be able to practice. Here, it seems as if the egos of the vice-chancellors are out of control, with their desire to create Ivy League-type universities. The absurd need for multiple degrees (many without relevance to law) and as a consequence, many years without income, stresses on relationships, coupled with the personal stress of many years without income. The vice-chancellors and their cohorts should take a deep look at themselves.

[@lonelychameleon3595]

Along with this also comes resentment from younger people who were told their entire lives that they had to go to college to get an education to get better jobs who are now saddled with debt and feel like they were scammed, even if they did pick the “right” majors.

[@WiseOwl_1408]

Sheep 🐑

[@LucasDimoveo]

There are people who didn’t that are stuck working at gas stations or grocery stores. At least people who went to school are making above the median wage in the country

[@John_Smith_86]

Where are these people? If you studied the right majors from the right schools, you generally end up with the right outcome. Student debt with a decent income is the right outcome

[@justjackie4394]

​@@John_Smith_86the people that studied the right majors, but whom competition was cut throat, so they couldn't get a job that related to said major.

[@John_Smith_86]

@@justjackie4394 Such as? Tell me the actual major. Name two

[@danielhale1]

Luckily employers have it figured out: * Job requires 15 years experience in a 5-year-old technology * Must have a Masters, Doctorate, or be the actual founder of the field * Job pays minimum wage with the opportunity for promotion at some unspecified time

[@carlthekatt]

I work in public higher education in the US. Positions in this field tend to be pretty competitive because of the retirement and benefits plans we offer tend to significantly outstrip those offered in the private sector, and salaries for most positions are pretty competitive. In recent times, we have gotten so many applications for office jobs that it wasn't unusual for pretty much every candidate without a master's degree to be screened out for what essentially amounted to unskilled office positions requiring minimal training, like clerical support, and higher level positions to be restricted to doctorate holders only. This has a profound impact on people's lives when it is replicated across an entire sector, as suddenly positions that used to require little to no college education suddenly require more and more of it, placing increased financial burdens on people and delaying their entry into the workforce so they can get the required education, regardless of whether that education confers any practical benefit to their career. At the same time, the cost of education was ballooning, making the problem even worse. In recent years this has improved somewhat - with an increased focus on DEIA (diversity, equity, inclusivity, and accessibility) in hiring practices, there has been more scrutiny placed on required and desired qualifications for job posting, rolling back some of the unnecessary hurdles that prevent otherwise qualified candidates from being considered for jobs they could easily do. The work is not done, however. I think there needs to be some serious evaluation of the cost of higher education as well as the practical value it confers, so that people are not left asking why they just gave up 4 years of their life and $200,000 to get a degree that effectively serves to check off a box on an application form.

[@georgebrantley776]

What the ridiculous number of applicants tells you is that you need to offer less compensation for that job. Clearly, thousands and thousands of overqualified people believe they are getting a good deal at the current pay rate. So drop the pay rate and spend that money on something else instead of fattening the consumer surplus of the transaction. Eventually you will settle at a pay rate that is commensurate with the number of appropriately qualified that you want, at which point you drop it no lower.

[@dontcomply3976]

You are participating in one of the biggest scams in history

[@rebecca.smith.]

Oh great, DEI over merit. . that's going to work out well in the future

[@IndigenousHistoryNow]

I think there’s a bit of a prisoner’s dilemma going on. Traditionally, lower skilled jobs pay less because there’s more people available to perform them. Even if the work they do is important for the economy to function properly, they still get underpaid. Higher skill jobs only pay more because there are fewer people qualified to do them. This means though that if high skill wages are to stay high, the high skill workforce needs to stay small. Nobody wants to be the one getting stuck in an undervalued career so somebody else can make a big paycheck, so lots of people go for higher skills. This means the high skill jobs pay less, and now people are starting to skip out on getting more education because you can make a decent living without all the student debt. This is only a short term solution though. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back in the other direction and there will once again be an overabundance of low skill workers and low skill wages will once again fall. Then, we’ll be right back where we started where more people try to go for a higher education because they don’t want to be stuck in the low wage jobs. Prisoner’s dilemma. Until we find a way to properly pay low skill jobs, instead of underpaying them just because we see low skill workers as worth “a dime a dozen,” this cycle will continue; and all the while we’ll be messing with people’s lives and livelihoods.

[@meandmynibbas2599]

It’s because low skilled labour and low skilled workers will always get paid low because they are easily replaceable. Even though the value they provide is essential anyone can do it. But high skilled labour is much harder to replace.

[@Owlr4ider]

It's not about high skill vs low skill. Even many high skilled jobs don't need a university degree. In fact most people in high skill jobs rarely use anything they learned in university in their actual day to day job. At the most they received a knowledge base and solid foundation, which while nice isn't really mandatory as computers do all the heavy lifting anyway. At the least people got a degree in one thing and work in an entirely different field with 0 correlation, still traditional high skilled jobs mind you.

[@meandmynibbas2599]

@@Owlr4ider true

[@tristan7216]

Caplan's book "The Case Against Education" makes the case that a lot of overeducation happens for competitive reasons and signaling value. Students get more and more education to gain competitive advantage in the job market, or to avoid losing out. I'm seeing a lot of that in the chat here as well, ppl saying you need a Masters now to get what use to be a BA job, or a BA to get a job a smart high schooler could do. In the US specifically, I suspect another problem is the reluctance of public K-12 schools to honestly grade ppl at the bottom ("social promotion"). This means employers can't trust a HS diploma and require applicants to get a college degree to certify that they actually have High School academic and soft skills. The applicants go into debt to do this; the certification that used to be supplied free to ppl as a public good became privatized and quite expensive. A public ed policy meant to help ppl is possibly doing a lot of harm. Education has two stakeholders: the student, and the employer or next-level educator they go to at graduation. It has to educate students to the limits of their ability, and also accurately and publicly label them with grades. It's hard to serve both well. There's always a temptation to prioritize the student who's in front of you every day.

[@fiszu457]

Hey, great video! When are we getting the episode on Poland btw?

[@chefnyc]

When I was young basic required education was for 5 years in Turkey. People started learning some trades when they were 12 maybe as a rookie next to a barber. And the good thing was other who continued studying after the age of 12 were kind of interested in learning more. So we didn’t have many classroom clowns. Another problem with everybody studying until high school is that some students don’t want to be there (draining reaources for the people who actually want to learn)

[@JokeswithMitochondria]

Went to engineering school became an animator

[@anameisntenough]

@@JokeswithMitochondria funny username. Funny channeI too

[@clusterstage]

We're now living in an age where years are months.

[@charlesphillips4575]

About a third of my contemporaries left school at 14, another third at 16 and most of the rest at 18. I think that worked better that the current system where nobody is allowed to leave before 16, everybody must do some sort of training until 18 and about half stay until 21.

[@originalsal2141]

@@charlesphillips4575 I quit high school at 16, came back to school at 21 and I’m graduating uni now at 26 with no regrets. 😅

[@Edzter]

as someone who studied 2 different careers, i sometimes long for the simple jobs to not have to deal with stress in my head, and rather deal with some of the physical pains. However, the pay difference sometimes hurts too much. Not saying every job should be paid the same, but jobs needs to pay enough for anyone to live comfortable no matter what, then we can do any jobs ourselves, and those that want a more luxurious life can pursue those higher end, more qualified/harder jobs

[@AdrianBaudy]

That animation at 0:15 was 🔥

[@g.zoltan]

Higher education has become a lifestyle, not a career choice. People go to university because everyone else does. And they usually go for the worthless degrees.

[@realmdarkness]

Of course, a lot of fields still require a degree to work there, and/or require a degree to get hired at the upper levels. so even though people are seeing that most higher education is a scam, the job fields need to see that and stop requiring degrees and offer training

[@MsJubjubbird]

some fields have to have a degree though. You just can't provide training on the job. Engineers, teachers, nurses, doctors, accountants, scientists, physios etc. It would take way too long and you need to have developed your critical thinking skills to be able to do the job- and the best place to learn that is university

[@connerstines1578]

Education is not the same as intelligence.

[@SC-gw8np]

Or wisdom

[@Profitglutton90]

And unfortunately the main ones who need to know this definitely do no

[@TheMoy117]

Idle talk.

[@fzigunov]

As a researcher, I can confirm 😆

[@Hansulf]

So what? You may be very smart, but without a good education you won't be able to do many jobs anyways...

[@guyron8833]

Great video as usual. I love how you mix and diversify the short background videos from so many different cultures and countries. Could realize it by language, skyscrapers, coins, landscapes, etc.

[@artemaung5274]

In US Social Worker having masters degree with crippling student dept usually makes less than a plumber or an electrician or other specialty tradesman. I remember reading an article 10 years ago explaining this and it seems that we haven't learned our lesson since, because education got a lot more expensive and also a lot less efficient, since these extra expenses don't correlate well with education quality. On top of it education for a lot of things became basically readily available on the internet over the last couple of decades so the price for it in theory should have gone down, not up. Instead we got ourself a full blown educational crisis where System's Administrators prefer to drive a bus rather than work for $15/h

[@wutang44]

I'd love to see a video discussing Healthcare from an economics perspective!

[@Me.Winter]

Education is very important but it's not everything.

[@adamkatolik1633]

One thing to consider is with all the world’s knowledge in our pockets, we might need to re-consider what we call education. The Good Will Hunting story comes to mind here. Anybody can self educate, almost for free, so those expensive Universities are just accreditation institutions rather than education ones.

[@d12captgarrett]

This is the exact argument that I've been making for the last decade. A decade where I also self taught my way into becoming an overpaid cloud architect. Six figures all day and didn't finish college. There are absolutely NO boundaries of knowledge and apprentice that once existed prior to this. You're a click away from becoming an journeyman in hundreds of different professions, all you need to do is try.

[@jimpaddy79]

@@kubilay9873 But we could just fund the universities to do that research with out the need to provide unnecessarily education

[@joe42m13]

A friend of mine has a theater degree, but went through a coding camp, and now makes 6 figures working for a software company.

[@d12captgarrett]

@@joe42m13 Excellent avatar btw. Aragorn in the GOAT.

[@MsJubjubbird]

@@jimpaddy79 relying totally on government funding is not sustainable. Universities would lose a lot of independence too and that would affect their credibility.

[@jamiearnott9669]

Great video, that's an important distinction. You know what, that's why I call education out as really knowledge economy. That's why the UK had record exports of services after the United States in 2022 as part of a post-industrial knowledge economy I live in. This is impressive considering the multiple crises of the global geopolitical economic landscape or zeitgeist recently

[@dorazati4905]

This is very true and not enough people are talking about this. In my country there are so many educated people that some people go to collage, study for years and then end up with no job because there are just to many people with education. Too much education makes collage useless for some jobs.

[@edwalker598]

in the UK there has been a big shift to degree apprenticeships even for people from a middle class background

[@steadyflame2909]

How is too much creativity a problem? I know a lot of people who believed school was unnecessary. I also know a lot of people who work at McDonalds. I wouldn't let the economist persuade me into believing I shouldn't pursue an education. It's the economist that benefits from the uneducated.

[@RobLawrenceTeam]

As an engineer turned Realtor, I think there are way too many engineers relative to what’s needed, resulting in relatively low salaries to my father’s generation

[@rauloropeza7426]

Amazing and educational video. I learned a lot thank you!

[@theblankettruth]

Knowing better did a video on Starship Trooper and covered some of the quotes discussing economic value. I would love to see you do a video on the economic theories discussed/ covered in the Starship Troopers book!

[@homosapienssapiens4848]

The only process that's of utmost importance in one's life is LEARNING ❤

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

This video advises against that.

[@xynyde0]

@@RideAcrossTheRiver learning and education aren't the same

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@xynyde0 Flat earthers sell that nonsense, yes.

[@xynyde0]

@@RideAcrossTheRiver Learning is a life long process, while education is about schooling. You can learn skills without going to school. But you can't educate yourself on STEM topics without a proper education system.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@xynyde0 And you can't be educated if you can't learn. You are trying to divide them and separate them. They are mutually indivisible.

[@Farseer15]

Before choosing your university subject (or choosing to go at all), you should be given a detailed rundown of the labour market, including which sectors have job shortages, average pay, and the qualifications and personal skills needed for each. So many people are entering the job market with very little or none of this information

[@D_Winds]

If only said parameters would remain immobile after a multi-year educational stint.

[@John_Smith_86]

Being worthy of a college education requires that you already understand this on your own, without spoon feeding

[@redslate]

​@John Smith I think his point is that having said knowledge in advance would disuade many unprepared individuals from pursuing a college degree. There are essentially no "requirements" to pursuing a degree.

[@John_Smith_86]

@@redslate Hmm. Think you missed out the very important word there "worthy"

[@redslate]

@@John_Smith_86 Negative, "Worthiness" is neither a LIMFAC, nor for you to decide.

[@danielbenington4814]

My little brother never went to college, and I don't use my degree in my current profession; in fact I consider getting my degree a colossal waste of my time. And we both make over 100k each, attitude, work ethic, and a reasonable level of intelligence is all you need to be successful.

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

OK, so your degree isn't useful. My degree is. I'm an engineer. "Attitude, work ethic, and a reasonable level of intelligence" are great, but you also need to know how to do engineering.

[@danielbenington4814]

@@Unknown-jt1jo degrees that have a specific career goal with a guaranteed return on investment such as a doctors, nurse, engineers etc are the only ones I would consider worthwhile.

[@GiRR007]

The diamond analogy is ironic considering the worth of diamonds is artificially inflated.

[@playingindies6730]

In the Netherlands we are currently seeing a trend where technical laborers with lower level degrees are being paid more than higher educated people. And I like this development.

[@miguelcubero3440]

My heart goes out to those who went to school and aren't given a chance at a job😢

[@溝尻マリオ]

As a millennial i can say our parents lied to us, they said if we studied got a bachelors, masters and doctors degree we would have a good life and recieve enough cash to buy a house start a family and all that picket fence chill. It was all lies now people with advanced degrees are driving for Uber, we can’t buy a house because it is too expensive and marriage and families are almost impossible to have unless you are rich. Society must collapse and be utterly destroyed as this is the only way to correct such gross market distortions.

[@himura357]

If you think life is bad with a degree, try life without one. Always better to have than not have.

[@ChibiOlia]

As someone with 2 masters degrees working in a totally unrelated field (for which i actually would need a 3rd master degree), I think that a better system would be to require at least 5 years of working experience before doing the masters. I really don't do anything with my Bachelor's and 1st master

[@markquirico1079]

I think they are doing this in most MBA programs. However in other fields such as anthropology or history, a BA degree is not that valuable. They need to have a PhD to be able to be recognized.

[@armorbearer9702]

You bring up a good point that absolutely free education is more of a blessing than a curse(13:42). It makes me think about what is the ideal amount of educational funding in an advanced economy.