Why Most Independent Films NEVER Make Any Money

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I’ve been thinking about doing this podcast for a long time. In the tradition of Why Filmmakers are Always So Damn Broke & What They Can Do to Change It this episode is going to be a cold bucket of water over your head if you are not ready for it. In the insane world we are all living in today, filmmakers need to break out of the mindset that we are living in the golden age of indie cinema.
The rules have changed dramatically since the 90s and even more so in the last 8 months of the COVID pandemic. The rules aren’t the only thing that has changed but the game has as well. The film distribution infrastructure is broken and has been broken for many decades. It is not set up to help filmmakers make money. It is purely designed to put more money into the pockets of film distributors.
I have written extensively about this in my book Rise of the Filmtrepreneur: How to Turn Your Indie Film into a Moneymaking Business. I want to put together one of my hard truths episodes to help filmmakers better understand the indie film marketplace and how to best position themselves to actually make money.
There is so much talk about new cameras, lenses, rigs, post-production software, and other more interesting aspects of the filmmaking process but when it comes to selling and making money with movies filmmakers rely on old information that is no longer relevant in the current marketplace. I hope this episode empowers you to not only make more movies but to also make money while doing it.
Strap yourself in because for some of you it will be a rough episode to listen to. Be well, stay safe, and keep that hustle going.
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#filmmaker #filmmaking #filmdistribution

[@SIMPLIFIEDFILMING]

I got my first feature film caught up in a bad distribution deal. After almost 2 years I’m finally supposed to get a check for $130. Oh that’s right they Don’t send out checks that small.

[@kpmedia8977]

well that sucks, i subscribed to your channel right away after reading this.

[@teja1015]

Adler & Associates?

[@dir-gk]

Holy shit.

[@darkpoetik5375]

when big name stars like Denzel Washington or Sandra Bullock make indie movie, they're doing it because they really like the project and they're looking for street cred. It's a way for a Hollywood actor to get some respect, to show that he wants to be taken serious....i've always like indie and foreign movies better than mainstream films, simply because their stories are better, and they take more risks with characters....I like stories that are character driven, not plot driven...

[@mikekillagreen9432]

That's not an indie

[@dantonbauer]

Yes, as an independent filmmaker who just released a film through Universal, made for around $200K (we tried to keep it to $100K :) it's a hard pill to swallow. Ultimately, I'm not sure what kind of return we will see, but in the end paying a little extra for the right music, VFX, sound design, and other finishing cost was worth it. Without that additional investment I'm not sure we would have secured a top distributor like we did. From their eyes, they thought our budget was 10x what we spent. My hope is that this film will open up opportunities where I can attract "bankable talent" and being able to make another movie...with a salary this time around LOL!

[@poljakov13]

How much have earned with your movie for now ?

[@dir-gk]

You’re a legend man.

[@christophercaves5484]

Your a great human being for caring about the little people. Your also an original New Yorker. God bless. Thanks for continuing to inspire me.

[@DavidRosen]

I'm not a filmmaker, I'm a musician (mainly compose for film), and yeah... This all checks out.

[@tp61783]

One of the best shows yet... brutally honest.. keep it up

[@daniellatteo_thefilmmaker]

This is the kind of episode that grows in value with time... Amazing, life-saving info!!

[@polestuntinwithkrista]

1. Filmmakers dont make money because Distributors do not pay us. Reports are self reported and no receipts provided. Once again...Distributors Do Not Pay. SAG takes advantage. People pocketing budget funds on production is also why movies dont make money. Not making each movie a formal Business..contracts,LLC, company account, lack of teamwork. EGO is also high on the list. Like you said...making movies for own EGO and spending like it for EGO. Being a BIG SHOT destroys lives.

[@williamjsaunders]

Really appreciate this video. Needed it.

[@daisyguerra2780]

WOW! WHAT A TRUTHFUL EPISODE!! A BIG THANK YOU ALEX FOR YOUR STRENGTH AND HARD WORK TO BRING US THE BEST INFORMATION!!😍

[@charlesherrick7400]

Thank You Alex...great and honest video.

[@ajaxfilms]

Even in the 1990's it was SUPER rare for the industry to buy independent films. Most films made, never saw the light of day.

[@katiepeters-moviequeen1175]

Absolutely!! The actual raw truth of the film industry!! Thank you Alex😎😎

[@maxstravagar]

Great advice!!!

[@djay_popping2793]

Literally thought to myself last week that i wanna make more music videos and shorts (ive dabbled in making videos for various hobbies and interests for 10 years now). Loved this video and your channel as its keeping me grounded 👏🏾

[@failedfilmmaker]

Awesome stuff from the GaryVee of Indie Filmmaking!

[@JonathanEBoyd]

Well said Alex a very Real Episode always giving us the hard truths (it's great when you jump on video to) thanks and all the best

[@abelsgarcia1031]

Thank you. Very informative

[@IndieFilmHustle]

Very welcome

[@husariaproductions4240]

Thank you so much for this. Knew a few things already learned a lot more. Myself and a few colleagues and are throwing 15k at a specific niche indie we’re doing. This installment deff. Armed me with what to sort of expect after. Realistic and hopeful. The dream is alive brother

[@1949AKN]

Bravo !

[@wakkowarner8810]

Most of the indy films in the past that made a ton of money were made for under $10-$15k, making a film for over $100k without a game plan is kind of stupid.

[@mychalsimmons4177]

AWESOME EPISODE !!!

[@forrestmeen]

Alex, I don't think that even you have the answer

[@h.ar.2937]

Alright Alex, this is a great episode, but my follow up question is: What's the solution?

[@IndieFilmHustle]

Become a Filmtrepreneur! Take control of your revenue streams!

[@THEDONTTELLSHOW]

@@IndieFilmHustle Hey, what do you think of the Folk Filmmaking movement? kzbin.info/aero/PLQ-TuqORtE8ZUxj4bWAIGN9m_iYln01V9

[@TGD1]

My thoughts exactly; he provided no solutions.

[@seizethedaystudios2058]

Thanks so much for the advise. We have just filmed a proof of concept short horror film that we have sent to possible investors. Good to know about Netflix aswel

[@rapidcityentertainment5104]

Great video Alex. The hard reality we are living in.

[@TheButchBerryCompany]

I'm on board with everything you said but you didn't say where is a good place to sell our film. You basically said nowhere is good.

[@theshadishow]

There must be a hope! Because even though this is true I will never stop making movies

[@themightyflog]

So all this video and nowhere to go or a strategy to follow? How is The Asylum making money? I just want to do that? Who do they sell to?

[@theshadishow]

We need to come up with better idea, I promise I will never take 6 or 12 cents a movie that I made no way

[@theshadishow]

@@DronkenDrenthenactually I'm coming there to shoot a feature lol

[@theshadishow]

Definitely I will keep you posted

[@mikeheiny4172]

With respect, you've warned us correctly of the independent market, Thank you. But you didn't point the independent filmmaker in any direction. And dare I add, you don't know yourself, because if you did you would have shared it with us.

[@robertulrich3964]

this was painful. and i've listened to many people about this. No one has an answer to this since after the theatres went away and all content is vertically distributed through vod/streaming, indie films got left on the island and there's no way off. even if you got picked up by netlfix, it would be a small lump sum and no residuals as they chop off most content every 3 years to stay fresh(even seasonal shows) and no regular consumer is going to buy 15 different streaming services anyway.

[@4thwalltvandfilm]

I have your book. I'm still trying to figure out how we are supposed to make money. Unless we can build a huge wide audience who is loyal enough to buy from you directly. Throw me. a bone brother. I'm a little slow.

[@miltonngcomedy]

Really good episode! So hard to know what the next two years will be like. I’m caught between doing a passionate comedy /drama film or a horror/thriller. Back then, horrors would do good for distribution, but the uncertainty of what the film market will look like, I’m caught in a pickle. Both films would cost under $100K.... any thoughts on what I should do?

[@kpmedia8977]

I'm with you Milton, I've wanted to do a great horror/thriller for a few years now, but it just doesn't make any financial sense. I don't do social media so my following is crap, and I'm not putting up on Amazon for 12 bucks in royalties, lol......

[@gregoryrogalsky6937]

Great video.. Liked and shared .

[@IndieFilmHustle]

Thanks for sharing

[@mirksy9774]

great video dude

[@IndieFilmHustle]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@drpilkington]

Very Very accurate info

[@sunsetmotionpictures1418]

Do you have information where film makers can get contracts to be able to look at them and understand them?

[@juzzonmorris]

It's tight, but sounds right...Thanks for the tough luv..the hard cold truth. 👊🏾

[@1949AKN]

What you have said is distilled wisdom. The scene is the same in hyderabad city, where we make about 150 films every year in Telugu language. Low budgets. Recognizable actors but no bankable stars. What the audience would be intersted in.

[@Crivera1983]

I agree 110%. Many indi film directors believe their project will blow up just if they post it on Amazon. Amazon doesn’t care unless you partner with Amazon.

[@emendymedia]

I feel like I just got told off for even thinking about making a film 😂

[@jthood9873]

Comments like this make me glad because I think the one thing we need is community: filmmakers helping each other to promote each other and not get fucked around

[@REMINACTV]

Thanks for expanding on this but what solutions do you propose for upcoming film makers especially here in third world countries?

[@theytstowaway1483]

I see a promising futur for… writing novels

[@Cfoxv1]

Love it !!!! I will only make films for under 50K in the landscape of the industry for the foreseeable future especially with no big names.

[@kirk-o-matic]

Very Good!!! I’ve been saying to all my Tx filmers for years but never learn you gotta have The Brad Pitt kit in your films or never going to make it or market your film that everyone has figured it out if your in film club you can’t keep making film Just make your film on iPhone and be happy it less stressful

[@INGLEWOODFILMS]

Changing super fast

[@D-Harm]

Amazon Prime takes half. My film released in September is almost at 100k streams, with buys and rentals. I cringe seeing that AP gets half of my productions profits 😠

[@huddieentertainment]

Thats crazy! Had my 1st on there and it would have to be millions of streams to get something

[@poljakov13]

How much have you earned for your movie for now?? Did you earn any profit?

[@FAMEAcademyNY]

3 years later im watching this. Are there any updates??? I will search the chanel.

[@CorduroyKing74]

So you're saying I have a chance? LOL!

[@IndieFilmHustle]

yes...lol!

[@voyagerone6861]

I hear ya, but something like Sound of Freedom gives me hope. A lot of hope. Hope that the power of true storytelling is within indies. We just have to brave enough to push it, however far we can.

[@Lukes3D]

If you have a 500k budget, I would imagine you could afford some kind of bankable star..

[@juanthyme1569]

Even for a few days. I remember an indie movie on Netflix that advertised Kevin Hart with a role in. Kevin Hart was in it for 10 seconds. Thankfully the film turned out to be good.

[@johnharrington6657]

Hello. I was thinking about making a 40 minute animation. I am having my doubts now. It will only cost me about $2,500. Should I make it??

[@juanthyme1569]

My advice that I’m using on my feature: spend the money on actors, locations, and wardrobe. Not an Alexa, a huge lighting truck, or under the line roles where you can do it yourself.

[@mychalsimmons4177]

ALEX, ALEX, ALEX Thank you so much for the continuous WAKE UP call. Ive been watching IFH since 2015. So I HEAR YOU!!! So now I only want to make micro budget films....for learning purposes...i.e. playing guitar in a local band. No grand ideas of becoming SPIKE LEE.😂😂😂😂😂NOT HAPPENING!!!I get it. 😂😂😂😂 But I had my fun in the sun.... In the 90s I was producing Platinum records on the BIGGEST rapper in hip hop....YES ICE CUBE!!!! I wrote musical pieces for films like SET IT OFF and B.A.P.S. I LOVE IFH because you keep it 100 homie. Much love... hit me up doc. I remember back i n tha day

[@seizethedaystudios2058]

Amazon are trying to get rid of indie films from their platform.

[@RoinesAndScroines]

Brilliant

[@user-ym1ik5bz3s]

Which platform is the best for Indie Films?

[@RAYMONDFORCHIONFILM]

Amen!

[@mychalsimmons4177]

THSNK YOU Alex IM WOKE!!!!!!!!!!!

[@CC-ed4ir]

I bailed 10 minutes in. Word of advice: If you are going to talk about something negative, lead with something positive. Nobody likes to hear complaining. If your message is "Become a Filmtrepreneur! Take control of your revenue streams!" then lead with that and explain.

[@juanthyme1569]

I tried to finish but I couldn’t. I will save everyone else the trouble: if you have no bankable star then your film is dead in the crib. 🤷🏾‍♂️ Now, what I believe is the reason why most of indie films fail is because most stuff isn’t interesting or unique. Another reason is filmmakers try to pull off things that play to their weaknesses instead of their strengths. Example: Sci-Fi (Space themes) is something I believe you can’t can’t go cheap on but folks try.

[@SemanticallyObscured]

good video jus don't stretch it out as much next time

[@barefootandindependent]

He said “crap”

[@hillock10]

The best way to approach this industry is as a hobby. Have fun making the film. However, as a profit making venture, the industry is a joke. This poster is developing a real business venture, and will entertain himself by making low budget films as my hobby.

[@Makingfeaturefilms]

What’s your take on today market now?

[@kpmedia8977]

You're exactly right ! There is wayyy too much content online, and if your movie is a half-assed script with half-ass actors don't waste your time unless you're direct selling, and you are right again that NO social media following means nobody wants to see your #$%#ing film.

[@alefortune]

Distributors for indie fim makers? It was never even a "real" business in the first place. Thats why we have all been hearing so many horror stories for years. Come up with your own game plan. The early film makers did. Why can't we? Esp. since the game of film making and making money from films is changing so fast every year. Now is the perfect time esp. since theaters may be closing forever, who knows on that one, thanks to Covid19. But since we are in this season of life, now is the time....to think and dig deep.

[@cybercab]

TubiTV is 99% of my business.

[@mikebeats3281]

It is extremely hard to make a movie that you can get anyone to watch for two hours. 😂🎉

[@mychalsimmons4177]

Wow how sre the odds in 2023?

[@charliemcgrain]

!000% Even a genre film, say horror, has still got to be a "dynamite" film, made really cheap, to stand any chance of breaking even. Be honest, is your film dynamite? Being "good" is not good enough. Take your time, be strategic about subject matter and budget level, and wait till everyone tells you the script is "dynamite" before considering getting the camera out. Being good IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Can you make a "dynamite" film for under 100k, yes, it is not about effects and explosions, "drama" is what happens when someone writes a "dynamite" script with characters and an original story line THAT IS ON FIRE. Alex is right, you could make a living with "good enough" 10 years ago. Not any more. Unless you are convinced you have a dynamite script that is literally on fire don't get the camera out. All of the filmmakers you love were highly selective about their choices, they did not choose "good enough" scripts or stories. How many films did Kubrick make? You have to be that picky. You have got to be that picky when it costs so much time and effort. Alex was too kind to say it but I will, most indi films do not make money, because they are crap, but even "good" indi films will struggle, especially drama's without talent attached.

[@BillionDollarPhone1]

IN ORDER TO BE TRULY INDIE YOU SHOULDNT RELY ON MAJOR DISTRO START YOUR OWN STREAMING SERVICE

[@JamesAllred-Parasauce]

The idea that the market is changing so fast that you can't create a film is bad advice. Good stories make good films. People will always respond to a good story.

[@jeffknite189]

Good luck with that train of thought. You can tell the greatest story ever told. If nobody knows that your film exists, than how will people respond to it. You're the exact fimmmaker that distributors prey upon.. gullible.

[@JamesAllred-Parasauce]

@@jeffknite189 😂😂😂

[@dhruvbahri9942]

HOW CAN I BOOK 10 MINTUES WITH YOU?

[@kasperwabinski]

Please script ur videos they are repetitive comments in a circle.

[@21stcenturyscots]

That is a lot of talk without actual Numbers and dollars. Please make a table with the actual sales distribution and earning numbers US Europe and worldwide with earnings of indie movies by distribution for cinema DVD and other means of 2022. Post the link in the description. Without that your video is useless. Nobody has any idea about what you actually talking about. Thank you very much

[@DocBoon]

Yep. I've been telling filmmakers this for years. Fantasy vs reality. Even when I first started making movies, I ran into filmmakers who had made good movies for $600,000 and their films were distributed the same places as a feature made for $1,000. And they received just as little money back. What I've wanted to know and have never been able to find out is how Jason Blum can have a network set up wherein he knows that he can get back $4,000,000 on a film even if it bombs. Nowhere have I seen an explanation for how he does that. I'd like to see what his setup is. Now, after having some pretty major films, I'm sure he can attract money directly from foreign companies and top distribution networks, but who are the people he's working with? Because they aren't the people low budget independent filmmakers are dealing with. The people we have are happy to take on our films as long as they don't have to actually spend any money on it and we do all the marketing and sales for them. And the film market isn't the only business going down that road. Novelists and musicians are facing the same type of we'll-take-it-but-you-sell-it-for-us-and-then-we-keep-any-money-it-makes approach. It's a bit like that old joke about how to become a millionaire and pay no taxes. Step 1) Get a million dollars. Step 2) Don't pay any taxes. The independent film business often seems to be saying the same thing: Step 1) make a movie Step 2) sell a million copies Step 3) then sign with us and we'll keep the money. I suspect that now filmmakers would have a better shot if they got an internship at a major studio like Paramount, worked their way up to a position with some pull, and then casually mentioned over coffee with someone in power that they would like to direct.

[@contactsammedina]

Thank You Alex... @indiefilmhustle