Why Movie Goku vs Canon Goku Isn't Close | Dragon Ball Z

#dragonball #goku #anime
Dragon Ball Z movies have become infamous for potentially having even better powerscaling than the main continuity of Dragon Ball Z, but is that true? Today Movie Goku battles Anime Canon Goku, and it isn't even close!
DISCORD: / discord
TWITTER: / lonk82609210135
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:37 - Movies 1-6
10:59 - Movies 7-13

[@NighScaling]

Bro really said "But can Goku beat Goku?" 💀

[@lonkstakes]

He beats everyone else so there was no other option 🥱

[@gokuzinho220]

@@lonkstakes RoF ssj gohan vs cell games mssj goku who wins?

[@Evasiv]

@@gokuzinho220 I think base cell games goku could easily beat up gohan, hes way too big a bitch

[@johnathanbakely1549]

@@gokuzinho220Obviously ROF Gohan

[@darkstudios693]

its not that easy@@johnathanbakely1549

[@blueyoshi5133]

This video saved my marriage! My wife now sees which version of goku is stronger and we can get along now.

[@Noneofyourdamnbusiness343]

Lol

[@user-dh4lr1by1g]

poggers

[@Sycokakarot]

Why do I believe you tho?😭

[@nerdius8204]

@@Sycokakarot i believe him

[@Kalom23]

It's true! I'm his wife

[@BoyKagome]

Goku can straight up absorb the spirit bomb in the movies... that's crazy.

[@zelz3011]

Oooh True.

[@gorge1365]

And use Kaioken X100 from Lord Slug Movie and Super Kaioken in the Anime Filler.

[@corruptedbf7855]

@@gorge1365 well Goku uses "super saiyan" in lord slug aswell and not a fake super saiyan

[@bobbobby5877]

​@corruptedbf7855 wasn't false super sayain the original super sayain design? Or was it just recolored to hide the super sayain cause Akira didn't want to reveal it yet " kinda how vegito came around because the execs decided to release gogeta in the movie I heard gogeta was supposed to be the fusion to fight super buu until fusion reborn was green lit then Akira introduced vegito? Same thing with false super sayain it was either the original super sayain design and was later changed or it was originally the golden haired form but was recolor to hide the super sayain form and just dubbed false super sayain

[@extremelegendsupreme4596]

Tien did state that goku could’ve absorbed the spirit bomb against jiren tbh.

[@kingpharoahgaming466]

The one thing i didnt hear you mentioned with the Metal Cooler movie is how Cooler blantantly says how every time a copy of him gets killed the next one gets stronger. Both Vegeta and Goku faced over many copies and eventually almost lost until they overflowed the core with so much energy. So like.. Its kind of hard to base Metal Coolers strength just on that.

[@boininjarj278]

And he caught goku mid Instant transmission💀 metal cooler is insanely fast😂

[@kingpharoahgaming466]

@@boininjarj278 yeah the whole thing of it not being instant in the movie compared to the cannon, but them being in a whole dimensional space in which time doesn't flow kind of just makes it similar if not makes it entirely better since it's just quite literally instantaneous in the movie as supposed to the times used in the cannon which took time.

[@Chronoflation]

But was it instant in the movie? Seemed like they just gave it a slip dimension feature and could spend time in there. That's how Cooler was gonna attack Vegeta while in instant transmission and Goku was able to react to it. Reminded me of clockstoppers, but faster, lol

[@sky-oq5mr]

@@kingpharoahgaming466 no it is instant. You are using your own head canon when they literally stated what it is. It's even faster than canon instant transmission because they can do it without focusing one energy the whole time. They are moving faster than the instant transmission.

[@FazeRustyNuts]

​@@sky-oq5mr you can't move faster than Instant transmission, Instant transmission isn't a speed

[@Mumu2k3]

Canon Goku: You fought well! I hope I can face you again. Movie Goku: *Spirit Bomb or sun?*

[@Balrog-tf3bg]

He can always just hit him REALLY hard

[@yurr22]

Spirit Bomb wouldn’t work so Sun it is

[@GMP1isReal]

This man really dissed World's Strongest and called it forgettable when the fights had amazing martial arts fights like the early Z movies had in general.

[@Grosvenor77]

It has one of my fav kaioken kamehamehas

[@RosencrantzxGuildenstern]

Yeah, at least in World's Strongest, Tree of Might and especially in Dead Zone characters still fight with some semblance to martial arts rather than just flying around and spamming ki blasts and unwieldy haymakers 24/7.

[@jdrmanmusiqking]

@@RosencrantzxGuildenstern Very pervasive false statement

[@demonlikemike5920]

Martial arts fights is crazy, it's just punch kick ki blast

[@kauanjos3199]

People when the movie doesn't have Suoer sayian 50 with kaioken times 1000

[@atomskShadox]

You sound EXACTLY the way I imagined a DBZ power scaler would sound.

[@animationstudiosa]

Fr💀💀

[@cirnosnumberfan6449]

When DB fans aren't debating with other fanbases on who can beat who, they're debating amongst themselves.

[@gorge1365]

Like rabbid animals, I know😒

[@nagatouzumaki4047]

There's not much internal debate in db

[@XxSpirothKurotamaMOONLIGHTxX]

couldn't agree more, lets also add on to the fact that most dragon ball fans like lonks takes don't know wth they're talking about.

[@Waluigiisbest99]

@@nagatouzumaki4047 *laughs in Super Buu vs Kid Buu*

[@gamemesa]

Man, every fanbase does that. like just other day I saw this a Batman vs. Superman video. and the fans of both were arguing with each other and calling them "Superman fanboys" or "Batman fanboys" and I'm over here like.. "ain't they from the same fucking series???"

[@liamdealmeida9914]

I'm not an outerversal Dragon Ball advocate and I could be wrong but: Cooler should still have, not infinite speed but inaccessible. If Instant Transmission is, well, instantaneous or immediate, like teleportation, with no delay, then Goku and Cooler would need to have inaccessible reaction speed, in order to teleport at the exact moment the other does, or to see the other teleport and be able to teleport after, catching them mid-teleportation.

[@Noneofyourdamnbusiness343]

Exactly that one fucking feat makes him infinitely faster than buu arc goku😭😭😭😭

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

@@Noneofyourdamnbusiness343 kid buu's blast is arguably even faster than IT, as it expands after kaioshin IT the crew away from earth but the attack engulfs and destroys earth and disappear all before kaioshin and crew could re-materialize from IT, and that is a casual, joking around kid buu

[@stepbak]

Wasnt Instant Transmission described as Dimensional Travel? How is that inaccessible?

[@matthewadams1674]

It's possible they just do it as they prepare to IT since they need to put their fingers to their head, which would take time if moving at finite speeds.

[@liamdealmeida9914]

@@stepbak again, given that IT is absolutely instantaneous, if not, then my comment doesn't apply. If it is, then Cooler would need to be that fast in order to perceive Goku teleport, process it and teleport himself, catching Goku mid IT, all before Goku reappears, in a moment where literally no time passes, so inaccessible speed.

[@MrBassem95]

Using the” Can even destroy the planet” to lowball Goku to not planetary at Kaioken x2 is bad power scaling because it doesn’t say Wheelo requires his max power to destroy the planet.

[@juhadexcelsior]

exactly, i felt something was off about that too

[@animationstudiosa]

@@juhadexcelsiorsame

[@thegodofsaiyans535]

By his logic Buuhan, DBS Frieza and Omega Shenlong are only planetary.

[@thegodofsaiyans535]

Because ALL of them state that their strongest attack is going to blow the Earth. He ignored area of effect.

[@justinlynch3]

Goku couldn't fully control SSJ on Namek either. At least in the anime yes there is that one point Goku powers down to base and goes SSJ again. But look at the context, he was still angry. Not only would Krillin's death still be fresh in mind, but he tried to spare Frieza and as soon as he turned his back, Frieza tried to slice his head off with an energy cutter. You can still see the rage on Goku's face after Frieza did that, and THAT'S why Goku was able to access SSJ again. Nothing indicates canon timeline Goku has full control over SSJ until he gets back from Yardrat. So lets look at this. Frieza at 100% while weaker then SSJ Goku, was close enough to SSJ Goku's power that he was able to fight him pretty even fight (again I'm going by anime) until Frieza's stamina started failing him, at which point SSJ Goku took firm control of the battle. Cooler was said to be stronger than Frieza, and despite that when Goku went SSJ Cooler punched him right in the gut and couldn't even make Goku flinch. I'm sorry but Namek SSJ Goku VS Cooler movie SSJ Goku, I got to give it to Cooler movie SSJ Goku.

[@smokeyjoe6059]

That's a well-rationed argument!

[@justinlynch3]

Thanks@@smokeyjoe6059

[@thegodtier7947]

For the cooler instant transmission feat it was stated somewhere that they were moving in a space that was beyond time. Which is immeasurable speed. Thus giving movie goku in coolers return greater speed than cannon goku at that time.

[@azimuddin1890]

I disagreed with Lonks Takes take on Gokou from the first Coola movie. Coola believed Gokou could’ve beaten Freeza in his base, and he says in their second battle he had enough power to do so. I think he’s referring to Freeza at full power, so Gokou’s base should be higher, like around maybe his S.S-J.Grade.1 level, or 180,000,000. Than again, it does contradict Meta Coola’s power, so perhaps Gokou is only doubled his power. So while I’d like to say he’s over 120,000,000, it doesn’t really support the next movie so I’ll go with 6,000,000 at least.

[@GratefulforFreePress]

I thought it and you said it, much better than I probably could've, nicely done! :)

[@frosty59]

There are a few errors. The "fake super saiyan" IS a super saiyan. In Japanese, the title of Slags's movie is literally "Doragon Bōru Z: Sūpā Saiyajin da Son Gokū", "Dragon ball Z: Son Goku the Super Saiyan". At the time, ssj didn't exist in manga, but months before that, they were already working on the movie. Just check out when the chapter came out and the of the production of the movie started, you'll notice that the movie had the idea of the ssj in it months and months before the ssj first appearance in the manga, If I remember correctly Production started during the Genew force's arrival. Toriyama already told them what the Idea of the ssj was, Golden Aura, hairs up in the air...Black hairs...Yes. SSJ was originally meant to be black haired, and Toriyama just scraped this idea a few weeks before the publishing of the chapter because colouring his hair would have been a pain, leaving them white and simple. So yeah, the "fake ssj" is simply the original ssj, Toriyama did the animators dirty fr lol

[@juhadexcelsior]

So false ssj is a real ssj but in prototype design?

[@frosty59]

@@juhadexcelsior long story short, yes.

[@kirklanyoshinaga8953]

Which actually makes sense because lord slug was a “super namek” comparable with a super saiyan. That comment was made by one of the Z fighters when they found out Kami merged with piccolo in the android saga.

[@ojpickle5923]

Didn't world strongest have official power levels for wheelo at over 30k and goku wasn't that far behind? If so then Goku definitely should be planet level in that movie

[@gokuzinho220]

If i not wrong dr wheelo power level was 39,000, meaning he is more than 2x times stronger than saiyan saga vegeta

[@lonkstakes]

That same power level list has innacurate power levels for canon characters. We can't exactly take it as accurate, which is why I didn't mention it.

[@ojpickle5923]

​@@lonkstakeswouldn't they simply be the movie versions of said characters?

[@SevannPiano]

@@ojpickle5923 Yeah

[@tinytitan8807]

​@@lonkstakesofc it is😂their in their own universe so their strength is different to canon😂even you said that, so Idk why it's an issue all of a sudden

[@GogitoGTHD]

Why did you completely avoid mentioning power levels for Dr Wheelo? This is definitely bias as you used them for Turles immediately after which is somewhat nonsensical, Wheelo is stated to have a powerlevel of 39,000

[@lonkstakes]

Because that same guide gets canon power levels wrong

[@mmsthfanatic6296]

@@lonkstakesmovies are a different timeline tho aren’t they so wouldn’t that just be movie timeline power levels?

[@XxSpirothKurotamaMOONLIGHTxX]

i wouldn't listen to lonks takes.

[@sarcasticsuperjerk18]

@@mmsthfanatic6296I don’t care if it’s a different timeline Adult Bulma is not stronger than Kid Goku

[@OkPe-ww5rs]

​@@sarcasticsuperjerk18That's what the guide says though. Can you also give a link to it to?

[@TrickiousRickious]

I feel like giving the cooler one to cannon Goku because he can go super saiyan at will is a bit of a cop out It’s weird that when the answer is unclear you automatically give it to cannon Goku as with Super 13 rather than making it a tie? Also I don’t get how you arrived at Cell and Brolly being quite close Cell threatened solar system, Brolly destroyed a Galaxy, how is that close? I think a reference saying “so-and-so will destroy the universe” means almost nothing, as any character that has a long enough life span and the ability to destroy even one planet can “destroy the universe” unless they do it, or give a time frame, it’s something half the villains in Z can boast It’s odd because I have almost no horse in this race, it’s interesting, but I don’t really mind which Goku is stronger But this felt weirdly biased? Like any excuse to discredit the movie version (like just ignoring King Kai’s statement about Slug being stronger than Freeza cause he shouldn’t know how strong Freeza is) but any time a guide says a very obscure thing about “destroying a universe” it’s gospel Like I’m sorry but even if shaking isn’t as impressive as destroying, cannon goku never did either to a universe or solar system so I’m not sure why the feat is ignored? It’s just a little odd

[@ProfessorPrel]

Agree, this video has a lot of errors in it

[@zelz3011]

I only liked for some things not the whole comment.

[@BaconMinion]

I guess SSJ1 Cell Games Gohan is stronger than himself in SSJ2. After all, he couldn't enter that state at will, therefore it doesn't count.

[@jjsix6943]

Yeah it seemed very biased the whole time

[@kilambrown4302]

Also on the bias against the Lord Slug movie. the 'False' Super saiyan in Lord Slug is only referred to as such, because at the time the Anime hadn't caught up to the Manga, and therefore no one knew they were going to color the hair yellow. Same with how he said 'king Kai shouldn't know how strong Frieza is at this time' Again Lord Slug was produced after Namek Saga had been made into Manga. So the writers having King Kai, who very much knew about Frieza, claim thay Slug is comparable or stronger isn't an unbelievable claim.

[@KaiKrimson56]

In Shin Budokai, Vegito and Gogeta are stated to be strong enough to destroy the universe and capable of killing a Janemba that can appear in infinite timelines. This means that game's version of the fusions could be strong enough to fight Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods.

[@gorge1365]

True, and Shin Budokai is Canon to Toeiverse as well, meaning Toeiverse Goku dog walk Canon Goku too.

[@sky-oq5mr]

@@gorge1365 ssg Goku is not canon Goku. Everything after Z manga wise is non canon and everything after GT is non canon anime wise.

[@sky-oq5mr]

Buu saga showed Vegito is well beyond universal. Buu was destroying reality by just being mad. Vegito pushed through that and cracked em.

[@RedEditz7]

@@sky-oq5mr no 💀🙏 Super is literally after Z it's literally Canon to Z GT is also Canon to Z but Akira toriyama stated that it's a different timeline 💀🙏 Timeline 1: The Canon Timeline DB,DBZ,DBS = Super Goku Timeline 2: DB,DBZ,DB Movies,DB GT = GT Goku Timeline 3: DB,DBZ,DBS (only the BOG arc nothing else from Super),DBGT,DBH,SDBH = Xeno Goku Timeline 4: DB,DBZ, DB Movies, DBS,DBH, SDBH = CC Goku

[@RedEditz7]

@@sky-oq5mr I agree to that people just downplay DB to it's absolute

[@fulsted7167]

LOTS of issues here. I understand Garlic Jr cause its hard to scale him. You cant just diss the world's strongest power levels if they're innaccurate to the anime. Its the movies, they follow a different timeline. Also, comparing Namek saga Goku to Tree of Might Goku is baseless. To assume that just because Goku couldn't go SSJ at will in Cooler's Revenge, means he's weaker that Yardrat Goku, is dumb. Cabba struggled to go SSJ, and he's stronger than Buu. There's also no reason to believe Yardrat Goku got more than 50x stronger. And Meta Cooler DOES indeed have infinite speed. If he can react to Goku's instant transmission(Which is INSTANT TRAVEL), and counter with his own, that is literally infinite speed. You also low-balled Goku in Fusion Reborn to multi-solar system level. You say it wasnt him warping the afterlife, but that's not true. You can literally SEE him doing it. That's a universal+ feat. You are clearly biased towards canon Goku. Dont understand why, but its wrong.

[@theultimatememelord5494]

A rare Lonk L.

[@alexandrosandreou8585]

​@theultimatememelord5494 no this gut is just brain dead the vid is perfectly fine

[@fulsted7167]

@@alexandrosandreou8585 Ah I see another guy with no discerment at all

[@lapplandkun9273]

Lmao, even vs wiki did this better than him and they're a steaming pile of shit with their scaling

[@theemperor4959]

Coolers revenge Goku was way above his cannon counterpart even his base would be ssj level since he could keep up with cooler base which was way above frieza 💀💀

[@Rdjevelyn]

He didn’t even explain why cannon was stronger he just said instant transmission and that was it

[@kobesan42]

No he wasn’t lol wtf is wrong with y’all

[@theemperor4959]

@@kobesan42 ?? It was stated that cooler was stronger than frieza in the movie itself even excluding his transformation, which makes him stronger than full power frieza for which Goku went ssj against, which Goku was keeping up with in his base form using kaioken until he actually transformed

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@theemperor4959 I don't want to mention VS wiki due to their inaccuracy and terrible scaling, but they did do one thing right and Toei Anime Goku is massively stronger than Manga Canon Goku. It's on the pages that anime continuity scales above manga

[@theemperor4959]

@@lapplandkun9273 we r discussing movies Goku to his anime counter part from post-frieza, pre-andriod saga, ur argument is invalid

[@joshuaaboo4767]

I remember Hirudegarn was stated to be above buu and taking his feats of beating SSJ3 Gotenks and Gohan. I think this version of Goku > canon Goku.

[@Mexican1632]

So was fat janemba compared to fat buu and ssj3 goku beat him plus he also had no ki drain unlike his canon counterpart

[@DragonSkyNija]

​@@Mexican1632He was dead in that movie. Goku realized that using SSJ3 with a living boddy drained the ki faster than he thought when he fought Kid Buu.

[@vpv2036]

Anime Goku is also above Gohan and Gotenks tho

[@gangstagummybear3432]

​@@vpv2036lol

[@bonniethebunny3971]

@@vpv2036 lmao no, ssj3 buu saga goku isn't anywhere near ultimate gohan powers

[@MiguelTheAdvocate98]

A thing to note about the Dead Zone is that it is described as a black hole in one of the guides you show on screen. Since Goku does scale to full power Garlic (without his weights) then Goku would scale to Black Hole levels of power or planet busting since Black Holes at worst can destroy planets. So i would give the point to Movie Goku for the first one. As for World Strongest the statement of Wheelo being able to destroy the planet at full power doesn't mean that is all he is capable of doing. By this logic Saiyan Saga Goku would barely be Planet level since he barely overpowered Vegeta's Galick Gun which Vegeta himself said would vaporize the earth. Even though we know it only requires a power level of 10000 to destroy one, are we supposed to believe that just because Vegeta said he will destroy the planet with his Galick gun that is all that he can destroy? no. For Lord Slug I would say this is a situation were the statements and the writer intentions/narrative are more reliable than out of Universe scaling. This is because the Lord Slug movie came out just before Goku went ssj for the first time in the Manga so the writers decided to not make Goku a full fledged Super Saiyan in the movie to avoid spoiling it. However because the writers intend on making Slug a bigger threat than Frieza I wouldn't say it's fair to say that Slug and Goku scaling above Freiza as a highball interpretation is fair. Especially if Goku need Kaioken 100x plus a spirit bomb to put down Slug. For Fusion reborn it's interesting to note in the dub version of the movie Goku notes that he has never felt Ki as strong as Janameba (first form) and Goku even references Majin Buu in the movie. So I would put Janemba above the Buu arc. Edit: forgot to mention that Goku in the dub of Fusion Reborn says that first form Janemba was warping every dimension in reality further proving my point. Edit 2: I notice i made some mistake for the paragraph I wrote or just didn't interpret what i said right so i'd suggest reading it again if you want. Thanks for the likes as well I really appreciative the support

[@user-je2zy6vw6t]

I would agree with most of this, but the Garlic Jr. part (specifically Goku scaling to black hole levels) is completely debunked with the existence of the castle, or at least its base. The "black hole" was out for a decent time. Enough time to completely wipe out everything if it were really a black hole. Instead the castle base was untouched and even parts of the castle remained. I think the use of "black hole" as a description is more so on how it sucks everything up rather than the actual strength it has. For more evidence: Goku is likely around planet buster levels at that point. We can deduce this based off Roshi's feat in DB. Roshi blew up the moon with a power level of 139 (Daizenshuu 7) while Goku was able to hit an impressive power level of around 930 when charging his kamehameha against Raditz (Vol.17 Chapter 201). Goku's power level in that moment was around 6.6 times that of Roshi's in DB. The Earth is about 4 times bigger than our moon. The Goku that went up against Raditz could definitely blow up Earth if he wanted. Black holes are known to swallow up literal stars. Our sun is around 400 times bigger than our moon. Even if we say that the Goku that went up against Garlic Jr. is stronger than his counterpart against Raditz, he still wouldn't be able to destroy the sun. This would mean Goku isn't black hole levels.

[@MiguelTheAdvocate98]

@@user-je2zy6vw6t The whole castle argument can just be for inconsistency or just Ki control. As alot of the characters in the series don't normally destroy things for an extended period that they should just otherwise obliterates. Like DBZ Broly for example being able to destroy a galaxy but yet with his fight with Goku and friends he doesn't destroy the planet they are fighting on. edit: The power levels for the movie pamphlet says that Garlic Jr power level is near 15000 or 1450 to be exact.

[@sky-oq5mr]

Vegeta can blow up bigger planets with less power than what he put in that garlic gun. Napps can blow up planets.

[@MiguelTheAdvocate98]

@@sky-oq5mr Ik. What i am saying is just because a character says that can destroy something at max power doesn't mean that is all they are capable of destroying.

[@fartinmartinreborn9522]

Thank you for your comment this guy was just crapping all over movie goku like it’s not even fair I would like to know what your opinion on the cooler stuff was

[@brianlaureus]

Yeahhh idk about that I’ve watched other power scaler’s scale fusion reborn a good few times and movie Goku was consistently stronger by wide margin to his canon counter part.

[@JamaalDaGreatest]

Right ??? Supreme Kai’s world is near the top of the universe and HUGE and Goku shook it all the way from the bottom of the universe. That’s insane and meant his power traversed through hundreds of millions of galaxies. Hell it probably destroyed a few planets if we’re being honest but somehow that only scales to a few solar system levels, like ??? HUH

[@Chronoflation]

And let's not forget Goku usually tries to control his power while powering up so as to not destroy the world's around him, so that shaking was really just with excess energy that flared out from Goku beyond his ki control, not even the full force of his energy

[@Dr.PaiPai]

This guy was lowballing movie Goku

[@Alexander-Lionheart_1881]

Sorry but you're wrong, movie Goku is stronger than canon/anime Goku, wrath of the dragon alone proves this, not to mention even Geekdom and the other most hard-core Dragonball KZbinrs have agreed that movie Goku is stronger, so movie Goku is stronger, get over it

[@hih_fructose1685]

Movie Goku feats are fucking insane

[@alishabazz7431]

I can list things you clearly made simplistic and lowballed but many comments have already addressed it.

[@DigitalWraith]

Even Freeza in the manga was stated to be a universal threat. So anytime I see a character say "this person can destroy the universe," I don't really care. Hell, in the anime, Freeza survived the destruction of the galaxy planet Namek was in, so Cell's claim that he had enough ki to destroy their solar system just made me scratch my head. Maybe because he was using a beam attack, it would have limited its destructive force to that of a solar system? Similar to how Vegeta's Final Flash had more than enough power to blow away Earth but since he controlled its trajectory, it only slightly damaged the island they were on.

[@orrorsaness5942]

that is simply Cell running a simulation and stating how much destructive power he had at the time.

[@DigitalWraith]

@@orrorsaness5942 maybe 🤔

[@starzz7221]

Downplaying movie goku hard

[@penguinlawyer]

This is the biggest case of cope and canon goku meatriding I've ever seen. Rare lonk L.

[@gorge1365]

Right

[@jmerridew124]

The most surprising part to me was how close they usually were.

[@primalgod7952]

Goku in the fuison reborn movie was warping and shaking hell and otherworld two uni size bodies that’s a uni feat

[@juhadexcelsior]

he was shaking the living/mortal world too, he shook the entire dbz macrocosm, what we now call "universe 7" this is a multi universe feat

[@primalgod7952]

@@juhadexcelsior he wasn’t

[@juhadexcelsior]

@@primalgod7952 it was flat out stated he was

[@primalgod7952]

@@juhadexcelsior no it wasn’t all he was shaking was hell and heaven two infinite size structures, you must be confusing that with the gogeta feat with his energy can be sensed from hell to the living world

[@juhadexcelsior]

@@primalgod7952 what? daizenshu places barriers on heaven and hell. They aren't infinite in size at all.

[@Bengt2509]

Someones gonna say movie goku is “immeasurable speed 5d”

[@joshuaaboo4767]

I mean, you can make that argument also not counting cooler.

[@Bengt2509]

@@joshuaaboo4767 im saying someone will

[@darkstudios693]

cooler movie? @@Bengt2509

[@godzillakingofthemonsters5812]

Some stupid moments, like not scaling Goku to Broly in the Janemba and Hirudegarn films. A guide does confirm by Bio Broly Goku was stronger than Broly and Fusion Reborn reveals he didn't even need Super Saiyan 3. Also Gohan in Bojack is stated stronger than the Goku who punched through Broly's gut, but not much. In terms of feats, Broly shits on Cell tier guys with laughably no effort, but if you do use Cell's wank statements he'd at least be closer....until Second coming where a WAY stronger Gohan than the one from the Broly movie says Super Saiyan Broly is as strong as he was in his first movie...and Legendary should be above 100x stronger since Gohan went from fighting that in base to getting clowned on in Super Saiyan 2. Bio Broly above that. Only Majin Buu really compares to stuff like this. And you could easily counter with Janemba and Hirudegarn who have direct statements being stronger than Majin Buu and Goku at least scales to Hirudegarn. Hirudegarn is post Buu saga in that timeline and Gotenks' power is referred to being the same as the arc. So no Kid Buu gooning helps here. Fat Janemba is also stronger than Buu and Goku confidently defeated him. Also if the dead zone is a BLACK HOLE....Raditz saga Goku dies, no dif.

[@juhadexcelsior]

you are right, this guy's scaling is delusional

[@drallelgaming]

For the wheelo portion, durability doesnt equate to destructive force, someone can be invincible and very weak.

[@dimitrijames00001]

Bro reasearch is "i made shit up" and ignored context in the movies and comparing stuff to the wrong time frame

[@lonkstakes]

?

[@dimitrijames00001]

@lonkstakes they shown how strong goku was in worlds strongest snd he's planitary, cooler basically stayed that movie goku in base form clearly was enough for goku, metal cooler is somehow cell saga tgen suddenly super 13 is android, grand kai's place is beyond the universe as stated early on in the movie yet goku shaking a void beyond a universe is just solar system (also said he hasn'tused the form since buu pushed him that far meaning he'stronger then that point) , also broly movie goku is most definitely stronger tgen cell goku based on how goku was able to beat a sayain leagues stronger then cell saga goku

[@parme8344]

actually, in coolers movie its not shown to only be able to transform but to have beaten frieza with kaioken

[@sky-oq5mr]

It's a what if as if the spirit bomb killed frieza instead of ssj

[@shikaotsu7194]

Early Z Goku scales above King Piccolo and there's multiple statements that he could destroy Earth, and this makes sense when a far weaker character like Master Roshi can destroy the moon in one attack, so even early on there's planet busters, I'd also like to mention Cell (and Gohan by extension) are galaxy level since even Frieza's base form with 50% power is so much stronger than his star level first form, and Cell is massively stronger but when it comes to Broly, Janemba, and Hyrudegarn they're without a doubt stronger than anime and manga versions of Goku, Goku at the very least (if you want to nerf him) should be galaxy level along with Gohan, Trunks, Vegeta, and Piccolo but we know for a fact Broly is already above baseline universal since him destroying a quadrant is a universal+ feat and he did that while nerfed by the crown and in his second movie, Gohan is infinitely stronger (could be compared to or above "Ultimate Gohan") due to the fact Gohan never stopped training over the timeskip like in the anime or manga, by extension Goten and Trunks should and would be stronger with Vegeta and Gohan training with them, and Broly handled them with relative ease until the end where his confidence got him killed, Janemba should be relative to Broly based on feats or could be a bit stronger (depending on how Goku is scaled) with Hyrudegarn being at least stronger than Buuhan or Vegito (unless you say the movie's cast are equal to the anime for whatever reason) since it could one shot a stronger Gotenks,as well as bully Gohan, Vegeta, and Goku all of whom got stronger after the Buu saga.

[@tomc6217]

The amount of times they revise the power needed to destroy a planet makes it all meaningless. Power level 200 could destroy the planet. Then 10,000. Then 700 "kilis" which would be in the hundreds of millions since its about 1/4 of his Majin buu saga power.

[@juhadexcelsior]

Even if Broly didn't destroy the quadrant but rather just a single standard galaxy, this still completely overlaps canon powerlevels.

[@extremelegendsupreme4596]

You should’ve done movie villains vs saga villains instead like Janemba vs buu

[@thehomieoof]

I hate how if something is unclear he’ll just give canon goku the win. He gave canon goku the win on Cooler, Super 13 and Broly. I’ve never seen goku absorb a spirit bomb with super saiyan in canon

[@XD_ist]

Why did you completely ignore Kaioken times 100 being exactly that, Kaioken times 100. It eclipses the Super Saiyan multiplier by 2 times.

[@maalikserebryakov]

Yeah for 1 second. -_-

[@XD_ist]

@@maalikserebryakov Stil, should be all he needs. It’s a 2x difference

[@gorge1365]

Very wrong made, to be honest and very dumb with favorism over Canon like always, Dragon Ball Hardcore Fans😒😮‍💨. Movies are Canon to the Toeiverse, which also counts Anime Fillers and Anime Exclusive Statements like Kid Buu being 2x stronger than Buuhan who was about to destroy the universe by ripping the fabrick of reality with it's power over a tantrium, then we have Toeiverse Goku with Plot, fighting Kid Buu to a near standstill, then we have Wrath of the Dragon movie were they state that Hidergarn is stronger than Buu (Kid Buu), and Toeiverse Goku destroyed him with SSJ3 Dragon Fist. We cant forget that Toeiverse Goku can use Kaioken X100 from Lord Slug Movie and absorb the power of Spirit Bomb to himself to amp himself as seeing in Super Android 13 Movie + he can use Super Kaioken (SSJ Forms + Kaioken) as seeing in Anime Filler. Also, Lowballing the Instant Transmisión Feat from the Metal Cooler Movie, is really a dirty move. So no, this video is heavily lowballed wrong here. Toeiverse Goku is really stronger than Canon Goku, is that Non Canon is Scale differently than the actual Canon. PS. If you want to count Super for Canon Goku, fine, then let's count Shin Budokai for Toeiverse Goku too, in Shin Budokai, Goku is fighting and surviving against characters which are stated to destroy "Infinite Dimensions" and fighting Future Kid Buu who was also stated to be stronger than these characters, all this without even knowing what God Ki is, just fighting in Base to using Kaioken and Super Saiyan Forms to 3. Also, GT Goku *IS* the *Same* Goku from Toeiverse, movie villians like Cooler and Dr. Willow are in GT as they were in Hell, meaning again, Toeiverse Goku is GT Goku, so Toeiverse Scaling is shared with GT, take it with a grain of salt If you dont like it, but is the true.

[@vpv2036]

Toeiverse is only GT and Filler, the movies are completly separated with only 2 of them following the anime like Dead Zone and the first Cooler movie And applying Movie scaling to the anime ironically downplays the characters even as KOYAMA confirmed that Broly cannot destroy the Universe, yet Broly is stated the strongest in the Z verse (stronger than Kid Buu, SSJ Vegetto, Hildergarn), so no one in Z is universal now?

[@GriffinatorOriginal]

Damn that was a good video! As someone in their early 30’s that grew up with DBZ and DB I never really understood how the powers of the characters in the movies scaled with the series and this video was friggin perfect in explaining it.

[@razztastic]

We're 30 seconds in and there's already an implication that movies *don't* scale higher than the canon arc they fit into. Even though characters like Broly, Hirudegarn and Janemba prove it. Yes, it's actually true. This is confirmed by Toriyama revealing his reasoning for every new movie villain being stronger than the last; which is, and I'm paraphrasing here, that he thinks the movies wouldn't be as popular if the villains for the movies were as strong as or weaker than the previous movie villain. You'll just have to trust me, since I don't remember the source of this information and I don't feel like scouring the internet for one of the hundreds of Toriyama's interviews. Anyways, say what you want, but Toriyama's word (And the people responsible for non-Toriyama characters like Broly) is law because it's his series and these are his characters. He can retcon whatever he wants and we just have to deal with it and adapt, because that's his creative vision. The fact that you used guide power levels for Turles and not Dr. Wheelo is strange, and I agree with the person who called out this bias. Inconsistent canon power levels or not, it doesn't matter because canon Goku is only one half of this discussion and he's not the one who fought Turles and Wheelo. My guess is you just wanted an excuse but I don't think it's that deep so I'll settle for the idea that you knowingly omitted information that would argue for movie Goku being stronger than canon Goku.

[@TOTALPROBLEM]

he DEF had anime bias

[@razztastic]

@@TOTALPROBLEM Yeah, it's kind of hard to make a video any powerscaler worth their salt will take seriously when you're not even subtle about it lmfao

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@TOTALPROBLEM more like canon bias.

[@chrishosey7535]

I agree with most of this. But how you scaled Movie 12 Goku vs how you scaled cannon Goku was just straight up disingenuous, and how you compared Broly to Cell was straight up horrible. 12 Goku shook not only a infinite sized realm but even beyond that by just powering up. That firstly, implies that Gokus attack potency is straight up universal+ due to the affects caused by powering up being drastically below ones max attack potency in Dragonball. Secondly, this puts him far above a cannon Goku who doesn't have anywhere near that type of feat, and who is at best baseline universal (able to destroy everything in it, but not the entire time space). Buu does have statements of being able to make the universe go "poof", but this was most definitely referring to the living universe and not beyond considering the context of his feats and the battle. Final Form Janemba however was just blatantly a threat to all of universe 7, which clearly puts him far above kid buu, who cannon Goku scales off of. Also, 12 Goku put up a MUCH better fight than you are letting on. He was clearly able to keep up with and even somewhat damage FF Janemba, but Janembas unorthodoxed fighting style and abilities threw Goku off. That doesn't speak negatively of Gokus power directly scaling to Janemba, since he was genuinely able to put up a decent fight. Now, the Cell and Broly comparison was just horrible. Broly literally destroyed a quadrant of the entire living universe! Not just stated to be able to, but actually DID. Cells universal statements mainly come from the anime (which isn't even completely cannon) and they're blatantly contradicted by a stronger version of cell only being solar system level (galaxy at best if you use the nebula interpretation of solar system). That is not even close to being close to what Broly showed he was capable of in his movie. Terrible argument. Aside from that though, I mostly agree with your scaling and any disagreements I have are at best nitpicks. Sorry for the book report, but if you actually read that 🫡

[@sonicwithglasses131]

Movie goku uses kaioken x100,scales over ultimate gohan and ssj3 gotenks and used a sprite bomb on a dr.weelo who scales over vegeta(saiyan saga) that can destroy the whole planet, how does z anime goku win ?????.

[@zenkai4124]

Ok with fusion reborn you are completely wrong. Shaking the universe means his ki was so strong it was able to interact and effect an infinite space which is universal by definition. We can also reasonably assume goku was holding back as he wouldnt want to cause any additional damage. With the first broly movie, movie goku has more behind him as broly has more concrete scaling to universal in a shorter time with his base ssj form near instantaneously destroying a portion of and infinite universe (still universal) goku was able to fight and keep up with him before he further transformed which is more solid when compared to anime goku. You also never went over speed as each villian scales higher than the last and metal cooler has an infinite-immesurable speed feat which means if the goku's after this movie had relative power levels to each other the movie versions would have a massive speed advantage which would give them the win in a fight. meta cooler movie as he and vegeta overwhelmed the big gete star which could produce a countless amount of meta cooler and goku would be atleast half of this if not far more than half because goku both in the cannon timeframe and as seen in the fight with meta cooler was far stronger than vegeta and as stated all the other gokus after the meta cooler movie would have the energy to destroy atleast half of thousands-an infinite amount of meta coolers. Even if these were all at the power level of 1st form frieza goku would be at Solar system-universal in his shear amount of energy. And tree of might happened before goku went on the gravity ship if i recall it was ment to be either just before anyone went to namek or replaces the vegeta and nappa meaning he is far above cannon goku. So Tree of might, return of cooler movie, possibly lord slug, broly movie, fusion reborn and wrath of the dragon would all go to movie goku. Possibly more but those are the movies i know how to scale. Movie goku would beat cannon goku in the majority of encounters where both their strength can be quantifiable and they are both alive

[@lonkstakes]

Aye bro Im not reading allat but you can join my discord if you wanna talk about it

[@zenkai4124]

@@lonkstakes fair enough 🤣🤣🤣

[@sheluvv_instant]

who ordered a yappuccino

[@CringeGamingOG]

The scaling in the Z Movies is absolutely bonkers. Not because they’re op, but because of how badly they would screw up the story if they were canon.

[@ProfessorPrel]

I could be totally wrong on this, but from what I have heard and understood, movie goku and anime/toei goku is supposed to be the same character, and take place in the same universe. This would make sense, as the Toriama statement is likely just refering to the Manga, as that is what he is writing, and GT is supposed to continue from the anime, yet it is still canon to the movies.

[@lonkstakes]

That’s why I showed movie guides directly saying it’s not in the main dimension of the story due to so many contradictions

[@ProfessorPrel]

@@lonkstakes I know they are most definetly not canon to the Manga. But in the interview, Toriama said they dont follow the story of the Manga, and that Toei were the ones who wrote the story. Considering the insanity of some of dbz filler stories, and that both the anime and movies are both canon to GT, which was entirely made by Toei, I wouldnt put it past them to concider the movies and animes to take place in the same universe, but a different universe to the manga

[@ojpickle5923]

​@@ProfessorPrelNo the movies are not canon to GT at all. Simple cameos are not enough to connect them. Cooler might show up but we don't know if it's the same cooler. It's never stated in a single interview or guide that GT is canon to the movies.

[@ProfessorPrel]

@@ojpickle5923 We know for a fact that fusion reboorn is canon to GT but not the anime. I super broly, vegeta didnt know the fusion dance but did in GT, as they fused in fusion reboorn

[@bigpapan.g3245]

@@ProfessorPrelVegeta doing the fusion dance does not confirm Fusion Reborn is canon to GT. Vegeta could simply had learned it off-screen

[@gokuzinho220]

12:27 bojack still would be stronger than normal perfect cell, as he was able to beat post rage boost ssj gohan who was stronger perfect cell

[@matthewadams1674]

The issue is that the Gohan he beats isn't the same one as the one from cannon. You also can't really scale Goku to Bojack since all he does is surprise attack him.

[@enderbroski5204]

@@matthewadams1674the anime events still happen for movies, for example cell blowing up releases bojack, which causes the movie in the first place. So it’s not far fetched to say that Gohan in the bojack movie scales to post rage boost SSJ Gohan during the Cell games

[@gorge1365]

The movie is after the Cell Games, Trunks already destroyed the androids and Goku is dead in the present.

[@matthewadams1674]

@@enderbroski5204 Except you can't prove that that Cell scales to cannon Cell. And again, you can't prove Goku scales to Bojack by that point.

[@PredsjednikGustavo._]

My theory on Lord Slug is that the movie takes place in a timeline where Goku killed Frieza with Spirit Bomb therefore Goku wasn't SSJ during those events, another one is that King Kai thought that False SSJ is the SSJ because he didn't see it before and likely thought this is power Vegeta was talking about all along.

[@sonictheknuckles]

glad to see ou got 20k! i subscribed around 10k and its great to see you doing so well man

[@squaremakescircle]

i had to stop watching 2/3rds of the way through, the bias toward canon goku is crazy.

[@azimuddin1890]

But he’s showing official guides that supports his beliefs why manga/anime Gokou is stronger than movie Gokou.

[@Obi482]

@@azimuddin1890but didn’t use official guides for the movie… quite ironic guy

[@jacobwest7]

The thing is the way screen writing works in regards to a narrative if North kai says slug is stronger than frieza then that's the creator's way of telling us who is stronger

[@IkenFister]

Flagrant comparisons in the timelines simply to prove youre correct.

[@Rdc_Dom]

Can't say i agree with all of these takes, but this was a great video. I really like your interpretation of some of these match ups.

[@tanman624]

Great video!

[@AMAZIAH]

Janemba is multiversal. Shin Budokai's story writer is the same guy that wrote the movie. He said it's the same Janemba from the film that appears in the game. That game is literally about Janemba playing with all the timelines of universe 7. And the Z fighters are trying to stop him from ending their universe.

[@tjgamer123]

The reason this misconception even exist in the first place is because 1: the movies are inconsistent about basically everything and 2: people scale movie Goku directly to canon then compare rather than treat him stand alone.

[@DreamingWhiteColors]

The movies are not inconsistent if they are in a different time-line they are inconsistent because you're comparing it to the main storyline 🤦🤦‍♀️

[@gedeonnunes5626]

The strongest Goku is obviously the one I made up in my lost school notebook comics, where he acquired the ultimate power of the multiversal eye within

[@willamdafoe9300]

That Super Trunks OST in the background you have good taste my man.

[@evilchild1851]

I feel like the only reason people think Movie Goku is stronger is because he actually wins against all of them (Besides both instances of Garlic Jr. (Dead Zone & Filler), Bojack & Bio Broly) instead of mostly just barely winning, dying or being put out of commision, making Gohan deal with it, or getting help from others (As in the stuff with Kid Buu, and not including the Spirit Bomb). Also his moves are just more effective, Z Goku couldn’t kill Vegeta with a small Spirit Bomb nor Freiza with the very big one, meanwhile Movie Goku’s Spirit Bomb went through Turles’ blast and killed him (albeit using the Tree of Might’s energy) and somehow absorbed a bigger one to kill SA13. I don’t know why I went from talking about why people think Movie Goku js stronger to somewhat defending him

[@sky-oq5mr]

The people he's facing are beyond anything we've seen in the anime canon. This dude disregards already confirmed information just to use his own head canon.

[@Mai-hk9he]

​@@sky-oq5mrwrong

[@Tissuestrash]

@@sky-oq5mr yeah the amount of head cannon this dude does is hilarious

[@sonicwithglasses131]

My guy, the movie villains wash every single dbz villain mid to low diff, this dumbass is ignoring, using head canon and downplaying movie gokus feats and guide book cause he think movie goes the same way as the anime which isnt correct

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

from my knowledge, z movie goku's best feat is shaking hell in janemba movie, but then in the anime, goku's energy traveling to the kaioshin realm in fat buu fight is arguably a better feat as the kaioshin realm exist outside of the macrocosm

[@chrishosey7535]

It's not. Goku shook the entirety of hell, an infinite, universe sized dimension, while also shaking the grand Kai's planet, which is outside of Hell.

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

@@chrishosey7535 goku's energy reaching kaioshin realm would still be the better feat as you could just fly from grand kai planet to hell meaning they are still somewhat connected

[@chrishosey7535]

@@dimensionvisitor7689 It's not more impressive at all. It is well documented throughout the series that you can sense between dimensions in Dragonball. Goku does it all the time. That doesn't make that ki scale to any higher. 12 Goku was actually affecting the realms, which again are infinite. They aren't close man.

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

@@chrishosey7535 however, those dimensions exist IN the macrocosm while the kaioshin realm is outside of the macrocosm entirely, which means buu arc goku's ki has to be able to effect multiple space time continuum, which is almost infinitely more impressive than simply affecting an infinite realm slightly

[@chrishosey7535]

@@dimensionvisitor7689 Goku's ki was not effecting anything. That's the point I'm trying to get across. Sensing is not the same as affecting. Even if they are in the macrocosm, they are still separate dimensions. Being outside the macrocosm is effectively the same thing, especially since Goku can just teleport to it via ki sensing.

[@MaximumPayine]

*Why do people have so much interest in videos like this? They are fictional characters. The writers decide how strong they are. Can't believe people spend hours and hours debating something that is pointless to even talk about.*

[@GreySymmetric]

So pretty much all of this is downplay, cool

[@VGInterviews]

Dead Zone This movie takes place while Goku and Piccolo still see each other as enemies, thus before the official start of Z, of course measuring against any version of Z Goku would make canon goku look stronger World strongest 4x kaioken beat Vegeta while it was uneffective against wheelo, yet movie Goku still beat Wheelo and was still standing in the end while canon Goku barely scrapped a draw even with a bunch of help from others, movie Goku clearly wins Tree of might, considering Goku's power skyroketed during his 6 days of gravity training due to all the zenkais he got from training himself almost to death and then using senzus to heal back, it's completely unfair to compare earth based movie Goku to post space travel canon Goku, if anything it would be Movie Goku Vs Canon Goku after leaving the hospital but before heading into space, he would still get one post Vegeta zenkai which could believably push his base power from 8,000 to something around the 30,000 that appears on the movie so it could go either way After that one I stop watching the video

[@selectivystupid.1030]

This video was a catalyst event for movie vs. canon debates. I hope you've realized what you've done.

[@OR-hl5lc]

1:30 min in, subbed. Just because I feel like we need more good dragonball channels

[@UVB_User]

Babe wake up Lonk posted

[@sonicwithglasses131]

And came and said complete shit downplaying movie goku

[@extremelegendsupreme4596]

Matchups should be Movie 1,2 and 3 goku vs saiyan saga goku Movie 4,5 goku vs namek/yardrat goku Movie 6,7,8 vs android/cell saga goku Movie 12,13 goku vs buu saga goku Movies 9-11 goku didn’t really do much.

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

2 months later 27.6k subs ❤ crazy work

[@UnformsageF]

RIP akira toriyama

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

I think Goku does scale to Broly destroying a galaxy, after all they had a fight where Goku was able to damage him when Broly was in his base form (Broly destroyed the galaxy in this state not the legendary form for obvious reasons) so i think movie 8 Goku would defeat his Canon counterpart (cell games) quite easily given the difference between a galaxy and a solar system, also his 1000x amped self should still count for that movie in particular, still i agree with everything else.

[@sky-oq5mr]

He's trying to downplay feats to make himself right in his own head canon. You can't thrive lying to people like that. He straight up downplayed garlic Jr black whole feat which is at least planetary but since he doesn't like it, it's not planetary any more. That is wild. He made Lord slug Goku weaker than namek Goku despite him having kaiokenx100 which would basically be ssj2 level of power in basically the namek arc. Downplayed cooler movie Goku because he couldn't go ssj at will yet he wouldn't need it. Cooler is stronger than frieza in his fourth form and Goku was whoopin em. That would mean that Goku at base rivals if not stronger than the Goku on namek ssj. He really could beat that canon Goku ssj with kaioken

[@SonZackSSJ9k]

It took Broly time to destroy the Galaxy, people act like he does it instantly.

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

@@SonZackSSJ9k How so?

[@SonZackSSJ9k]

@@prometheusmodelow8322 He literally is shown blowing up worlds and It took his like 20 years to blow up a Galaxy, we know this since South Galaxy just exploded when the Movie Started.

[@prometheusmodelow8322]

@@SonZackSSJ9k Ehh no? In the very beginning of the movie you see how he vaporized a Galaxy in real time (with sound effect and everything) that he ocasionally takes his time and wipes out planets doesn't mean he's incapable of doing more because we've seen it happen, plus you are basing it off a mistranslation, he didin't destroy the entire south galaxy, it is said he was ravaging it, the south galaxy is the entire southern side of the universe, which contains normal sized galaxies inside of it (like a galaxy of galaxies), he didin't completely destroy the entirety of it because Goku visits a south galaxy planet in the movie and it is whole, just depopulated, so Broly destroyed some galaxies, some planets, and some civilizations in that bigger galaxy, overall causing a lot of chaos hence why Kaioh calls Goku immediately, if Broly's rampage lasted 20 years Kaioh wouldn't call Goku with such urgency at that time. On top of that, he is stated to be able to destroy the universe even when he hasn't revealed his legendary form by paragus, for that to make sense in a Saiyan lifespan he should be at least multi-galaxy, but i'm just lowballing to galaxy level as that's the biggest on-screen display of power from a suppressed Broly we've seen.

[@malicekingofshadows]

So what's you're opinion on xeno goku? Seeing how he comes from a hypatitical reality where movies and canon are one?

[@lavellebailey2462]

How do you get access to these guides for information I would like to read the guides myself

[@Argol228]

Thanks. This video has made me realize just how stupid power levels and power scaling work in these kind of debates.

[@leviatkins453]

Video is just starting , but as a fan of DBZ for 26 years, I’ll just start off with sharing that fans for most of the Dragonball existence count the original manga to be the main continuity aka “ canon”. The DBZ is not usually “canon”. My standing is that all official anime, books and movies are “canon” just different timelines/ continuities. Nonetheless, the old movies, and Gay are from my view point, ONE continuity: the old movies are canon to GT. GT only exists as anime, and Dragonball anime and dbz anime are the canon pasts of GT and Super. Now the crazy thing is that the end of Z episodes and chapters of the manga are shared between GT, Super, the anime, and the manga as some crazy nexus point. Simple view point: the OG movies are GT Goku in the past, but not super nor Dragonball or Z .

[@leviatkins453]

Anime Goku and Oag movies Goku can be placed into the same continuity, because anything can happen in fiction. In the west, the 2nd Garlic Jr movie was made into a saga and played as episodes, and as you mentioned, Cooler’s revenge could also fit nicely in the time skip. My issue is that the movies create stories using the Goku and heroes that congruently existed at that time of the anime with similar power levels. So the main timeline continuity of the anime isn’t stronger than the movie counterparts, they’re made to literally be the same character. It’s like comparing two bananas from the same bunch that are same size and weight, genetically they are the same banana. Anime within Dragonball Heroes and anime in the Xenoverse games really only divide the Goku’s into 2 : Super and GT Goku’s. Where, GT and Super Goku from the anime share all of anime DB and anime DBZ, but GT some how had the OG movies be canon to his past and Super anime Goku would have all of the new movies as his canon. Manga canon is separate and generally held to be the true “ canon”. If we are going to pic Goku from Coolers revenge and pit him up against Goku in the chapter when Raditz arrives in earth, he would be canon, so what’s the point of picking Goku from two points in time or age, unless he’s a different Goku? They’re all Goku. Any obvious fan knows he’s stronger as time progresses for the most part.

[@kamuishortsgamer3728]

Broly destroying the south galaxy no where near his full power in legendary super saiyan is enough of a feat to have him surpass anything in Cannon. "South Galaxy" isnt a galaxy but rather stated the "South /quadrant/" of the universe, meaning its 1/4th the universe. This makes Goku beyond universal, as no way that restricted broly, ssj or not, is beating full power ssj goku in that movie. Because Goku was even a fraction of Legendary super saiyan brolys power in that movie, even if a thousandth, he is considered broken. Statements are one thing, evidence is the next. In anime or manga, cell or kid buu were never stated nor shown to be universal. So, those statements dont count. What counts is proof, evidence, feats. And with those three, Goku simply fighting and withstanding attacks from Broly in Legendary Ssj is enough to put him above cannon goku in the buu saga.

[@michaelbraxton137]

Great video man

[@sonicwithglasses131]

Its literally shit, bros downplaying and using headcanon on movie goku

[@infamouskent7243]

Low ball movies and high ball canon is crazy

[@runeuchihawhatifsandgaming3783]

yeah i’ve been like: bruh movie goku can shake the universe by going super saiyan 3, while goku in the original timeline turning ssj3 only shook earth, or how goku and cooler in the movies were able to fight while using instant transmission, broly destroyed a galaxy just by powering up, yeah i’ve thought movie goku was stronger for years

[@runeuchihawhatifsandgaming3783]

oh, while i didn’t think the mega cooler fight makes speed infinite i didn’t realize it was just fight8ng in a dimensional speed ravel space, neat

[@inferstrike3544]

Hey is this relevant? In the Tournament of Power, after all three fighters were almost completely drained, Vegeta used Gamma Burst Flash with Goku's Kamehameha to try to eliminate Jiren. The combined attack was so powerful it warped the entire Null Realm - changing it's color - and made everyone in the stands brace themselves.

[@biggiecheese655]

@@inferstrike3544 Maybe it's because Vegeta and Goku from Dbs are just blatantly stronger than Movie Goku?💀

[@inferstrike3544]

@@biggiecheese655 I'm not saying that Movie Goku is stronger or something like that. I was just stating a feat

[@ProfessorPrel]

@@runeuchihawhatifsandgaming3783 That doesnt really make sense. If instant transmission is still instant, that means that Cooler could react to Goku, and then fight him while in a dimention they were in for 0 time

[@YXJ69_]

I personally think Goku win's what about y'all🤔

[@zelz3011]

NAH GOKU WINS!

[@bigpapan.g3245]

Should do a Video on Battle of Gods and Ressurection F (Movie Versions) power scaling

[@ralonnetaph6450]

just hearing the intro of this video made me think, imagine how funny it would be if movie Goku was the one who becomes the capsule corp Goku in the super games?

[@stepbak]

Its unfortunate how little Toei cares about Fair Use, smh.

[@SoraDonaldGoofy99]

I used to believe Broly was the strongest until SSJ4 Gogeta in GT for some reason before, but I can maybe see why I saw that. Other characters were saying he could destroy the universe in subs. Gogeta was altering things about negative and positive energy for heck's sake. (Totally my thoughts) But yeah, canon Goku is better in most scenarios here.

[@2-bit567]

Why wouldn't ssj3 Goku do it?

[@SoraDonaldGoofy99]

@@2-bit567 I was only describing what I used to believe as a Broly fan boy.

[@dimitrijames00001]

Broly did that while in the weakened state meaning full power was capable of more then a single universe

[@2-bit567]

@@dimitrijames00001 I think Broly destroyed the galaxy by blowing up stars individually, which come to think of it is actually an *insane* stamina feat

[@dimitrijames00001]

@2-bit567 i mean the animation in the beginning makes it look like he did it in one attack but he obviously didn't destroy the galexy in his syrongest form because paregas can only contoll his supressed and base form

[@playtetris6524]

10:04 Is that Dragon Ball Densetsu? 'Cause if I remember correctly it's a space that transcends time, and it says that Metal Cooler could move instantly while in it.

[@RosencrantzxGuildenstern]

I know it's bit of a rock-paper-scissors logic, but one things gave me the impression Wrath of The Dragon Goku was stronger than his Buu Saga counterpart was most signs pointing towards him being weaker than both SS3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan in the manga\anime, whereas in the 13rd OVA he seemed much tankier than the both of them even as a SS2, not to mention him shrugging off 2nd form Hildegarn's punches like they were a mild inconvenience at best. Granted, that might just be down to the Ova probably taking place somewhat after the Buu Saga, (if we for a moment pretend the OVAs could fit into the anime's timeline), and one could just chalk up the sudden turning of the tables to Goku being a training freak whereas the half-Saiyans were probably taking it easier by comparison. That would mean to power relations would be similar during the same period in the anime as well.

[@ViperineHero]

bro finally someone debunks the jenemba hell thing it always felt kind of rediculous

[@gorge1365]

It wasn't "debunked", it was lowballed and ignored, that Feat means alot more than it gets credits

[@jxrage9134]

This guys lowballing is ridiculous 💀

[@Waluigiisbest99]

and dude is very selective on what sources or statements he brings up, almost as if he is purposely leaving some statements that will crush his claims hmmmm...

[@gameygeemer4142]

Movie Goku had Kaioken times 100 before Super Saiyan which puts him way ahead of the curve until Buu, but I can't think of anything after Bojack that really stacks

[@KaiisKlips]

I disagree with coolers revenge placement. Goku cannot go super saiyen at will which means it takes place between trunks showing up and namek. So Movie goku easily beats out canon goku in that instance.

[@snwy5278]

This video seems less like correction and more like “I hate movie goku and here’s why”

[@cantstopbrock]

I think it’s because people just blindly spread the misconception that movie Goku is somehow stronger without any evidence so this video serves to dispute it

[@ForceFire472]

​@@cantstopbrockI'm gonna be honest I always thought canon and movie goku were close in power.

[@jdrmanmusiqking]

​@@cantstopbrockTheres plenty of evidence. You're just blind and cant read Goku was going casually going Kaoiken x100 in the movies and the Tree of Might had Saiyan saga Goku at 30,000 which was significantly higher than it was supposed to be

[@cantstopbrock]

@@jdrmanmusiqking Goku when he was supposedly using “Kaioken x100” was burrowing Piccolo’s ki in a desperate situation. And the Goku who’s above 30,000 from the Tree of Might lines up with Goku from the mainline story as Tree of Might occurs while Goku is training in x100 Gravity in the Anime

[@jdrmanmusiqking]

@@cantstopbrock bro no.. goku consistently went to higher levels of kaio ken in the movies stop cherry-picking for this awful video.

[@nyghtryder3446]

There no cannon Confirmed for dbz so I ain't even going waste time watching this automatically think it false information so not going listen💯

[@Boymanbiy]

Now we need manga vs anime vs movie

[@TaeSunWoo]

Movie timeline Saiyans are built different and I love it

[@eberdamilcar2130]

Think this video is a downplay of movie goku

[@BrianAwesome]

If it's the same time frame and after their respective early db sagas, Movie/Gt Goku smashes. Ssj3 movie goku/Base early gt Goku = B.o.g. Saiyan God Goku/70% Beerus. Base early gt Goku = Saiyan God Goku Ssj Gt Goku = Super Saiyan God Goku Ssj2 Gt Goku = Super Saiyan God 2 Goku/On par with 100% Beerus Ssj3 Gt Goku = Ssjg3 Super's Goku And so on.

[@shadow_kin2047]

10:04 in this part of the video, your quote says that Coola is using teleportation😅

[@luigigx1172]

I was been thinking the same thing but with Luffy instead Anime vs Manga.

[@lapplandkun9273]

Unlike DBZ, naruto and one piece are one in one with their scaling, and have virtually little to no discrepancy

[@ScuffedJeo]

Doesn't the Garlic Jr anime saga negate your whole point?

[@ScuffedJeo]

And being able to turn Super Saiyan at will is a null point. Cabba couldn't turn Super Saiyan at all, and he's obviously superior to both the likes of Goten and Trunks who can turn Super Saiyan. Then we have the case of Kale and Super Broly.

[@ScuffedJeo]

And then skipping Broly as a whole because of statements from his creator is wild.

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

@@ScuffedJeo his point is that which base goku is stronger is unquantifiable due to lack of information so he just assumes they are equal, so the one that can use ssj better would win

[@ScuffedJeo]

@@dimensionvisitor7689 Nah. The thing is, he's been picking and choosing what statements of the Daizenshuu and so on to follow. Not a fan of this video.

[@dimensionvisitor7689]

@@ScuffedJeo I don't think you're understanding why he skipped the broly section, he explained that he do it because goku never scales to broly at all so it's straight up not possible to tell how strong goku really is

[@wren7195]

Wow, this was a great video! I'm not a huge power-scaler fan, and I admit I assumed movie Goku was much stronger in the movies than canon... but this video was really well presented, clear, and sensible. I greatly enjoyed it, thanks for making it. Think I'll be subscribing now!

[@Chronoflation]

I think it depends on the timing. While some guides give rough estimates of when things happen, I always headcanon the timings for when characters make the most sense. Cooler movie Goku definitely seems way stronger than canon Goku since it seems to be shortly after Goku gets back from Yardrat, and despite not being able to control super saiyan, his base was able to match up to Cooler's 4th form, which was stated to be stronger than Frieza. That is some absurd gains for Goku, cause that means his base would need to be over Frieza level, something Future Trunks needed to go Super Saiyan to achieve (even if it was mecha). If Goku was that strong in base, his Super Saiyan would easily trounce the Androids, since Trunks was at least able to survive fighting with them, and that should be way before the androids showed up. The books may say movie Goku was weaker, but I always thought his in-movie feats came off as more impressive in most cases. Heck, Super Saiyan Goku was stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan in the Broly movie and Cell games Gohan though Goku was just toying with Cell because Goku felt so weak to him in canon. He just couldn't believe his dad was so much weaker than him. Not so for movie Goku, who still dies to Cell in the movieverse. DragonBall getting a movieverse rewrite would be awesome. A DBZ game should do that sometime, follow the movie canon. Would be fascinating

[@wren7195]

@@Chronoflation Bro youtube did NOT show me your reply, I'm glad I swung back around to check. Agree with you completely, and a ... not even a trope game thing but the ENTIRE game be canon to the movies? That'd be insane. Dragon Fist against Hirugiggeddygiggdygarn was easily his most powerful attack until a semi-akin version against Beerus in the Super anime. Just... really grateful to have talked with you, lol thanks, be safe out there. Full agree.

[@Chronoflation]

@@wren7195 Hey, thanks, I really appreciate it. Usually I get shit for comments like that, so I appreciate the positivity in the comments. And yeah, it'd be such a great and wild concept for a DB game's story. They keep doing Xenoverse stuff and trying to rewrite the story all these different ways, but they've really got the material right there to change things up just enough to be really interesting for long-time fans, I think

[@cuiveirwin]

I disagree with the assertion made at 1:50 . Existing in a different dimension doesn’t automatically mean that the characters are written differently. Toriyama also said the movies are based on his work and Koyama Takao has multiple statements on trying to make the movies in-line with the series and to not go ahead of the Manga/Anime. In-verse scaling should be used unless the movie proves otherwise. Movie 1 Goku ~ Raditz Fight Goku Movie 2 Goku ~ Vegeta Fight Goku Movie 3 Goku ~ Goku while training in Space Movie 4 Goku ~ Namek Arc Goku (either pre or post Zenkai) Movie 5 Goku ~ post-Namek Arc Goku Movies 6/7 Goku ~ Androids Arc Goku (w/o Virus) Movie 8 Goku ~ RoSaT Goku Movie 9 Goku ~ Cell Games Goku Movies 10-12 Goku ~ Early Boo Arc Goku Movie 13 Goku ~ Post-Boo Arc Goku I would defend any of these stances regarding Goku from the Anime only. The only real inconsistency is Tullece in Movie 3, but that’s something that contradicts itself (Tullece believes Oozaru Gohan, who’s PL would be 100,000, is beneath him and that his Kill Driver was going to kill him - which was sort of implied to do so had Goku not intervened. But then he sweats at 30,000 Goku and opts with the Shinseiju fruit when Goku’s power skyrockets. Goku himself also needed Kaioken to evade Oozaru Gohan). But I’d technically argue Movie Goku is only stronger because Movie 13 takes place after the Boo Arc.

[@ryanmallory1045]

It took me till Fusion Reborn to realize something was off about this vid. Lowballing shaking the kais planet from at least 2 universe sized planes away all just from powering up to multi solar system is a joke, even if the universes aren't infinite. Then that one feat was used as his max and compared it to the statement Buu could destroy the universe over an unspecified time, even though we literally saw Janemba do the same as his presence warped multiple universel sized constructs.

[@segaherman_twitch]

Canon goku doesn't exist. Because Canon doesn't exist in dragon ball 😂