Why Must the Elves Leave Middle-Earth? | Lord of the Rings Lore | Middle-Earth

Why Must the Elves Leave Middle-Earth and travel to the Undying Lands? Why did they have such a sadness around them? And what would happen if they chose to ignore this yearning, and instead stayed in Middle-Earth? In this video, we explore all of this and much more in great detail while always using quotes from the Lord of the Rings books as our foundation!
================================================
►Join us on Facebook! - / geekzone-113587049285161
►Join us on Twitter! - / geekzonemt
►Support us on Patreon! - / geek_zone
================================================
In this series, we explore the history of places in Middle-Earth, Characters or events that took place.
The information is presented in an orderly easy to understand way so that it is friendly to people that are new to the Lord of the Rings Lore and Mythos.
If I feature any of your artwork during this video, please drop a message or a comment and I can link your page in the description of my videos!
Quotes:
“They wanted the peace and bliss and perfect memory of ‘The West’ and yet to remain on the ordinary earth where their prestige as the highest people, above wild Elves, Dwarves, and Men, was greater than at the bottom of the hierarchy of Valinor”
“Then Eonwe as herald of the Elder King summoned the Elves of Beleriand to depart from Middle earth”
“We learn that the Exiled Elves were, if not commanded, at least sternly counselled to return into the west, and there be at peace”
“ that they will prove less strong to last than they were designed to be”
“You live in Arda marred, as do we, and all the matter of Arda was tainted by him, before ye or we came forth, though this may not be clearly revealed for many years”
“ As ages passed the dominace of their fear (spirits) ever increased, ‘consuming’ their bodies (as has been noted). The end of this process is their ‘fading’, as men have called it; for the body becomes at last, as it were, a mere memory held by the fea”
“for in their early days elf-children delighted still in the world about them, and the fire of their spirit had not consumed them”
“The lingerers, whose bodily forms may no longer be seen by us mortals, or seen only dimly and fitfully”
“For the time comes of the Dominion of Men, and the Elder Kindred shall fade or depart”
“The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the Sea, and their regret is undying and cannot ever wholly be assuaged.”
: “To me the difference seems like that between one who visits a strange country, and abides there a while (but need not), and one who has lived in that land always (and must). To the former all things that he sees are new and strange, and in that degree lovable. To the other all things are familiar, the only things that are his own, and in that degree precious”
~-~~-~~~-~~-~
Check out my latest video!: "Dol Guldur - Lord of the Rings Lore"
• The History of Dol Gul...
~-~~-~~~-~~-~

[@dr.strangelove9815]

I think Galadriel mentions fading well: "Yet if you succeed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlórien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten." From the point of view where Tolkien' desired to create a mythology for Britain, the idea of the fairy being a faded elf is interesting to ponder.

[@HueghMungus]

Well that was his point if I am right @Dr._Strangelove he wanted to created something for Britain like the mythology of vikings and ancient greeks.

[@christosvoskresye]

Q: Why must the elves leave Middle-Earth? A: To get to the other side.

[@Matakshaman]

I'm a year late but you already stole my joke XD

[@tonystark2318]

No mames !

[@Faith-yl1tk]

😂😂😂😂 one year later but Thanks your comment made me laugh.

[@sarikatimmi]

obv for fitness, just like the chicken

[@Orandu]

This is the way

[@louiejc]

I do not think people have to imagine what it is like for elves to have to live such long lives and see those they know pass while they remain. I think they can understand if they consider their pets. How many dogs will you develop a close relationship with in your lifetime. Raise it, care for it, tend to it when it is sick, and ultimately say goodbye to it. That is probably why the elves seem to be full of spirit in the First and Second Ages but by the Third seem detached to mortals. It is not that they do not care, it may in fact be the opposite, that they care deeply but only rarely make their interventions noticeable.

[@GeekZoneMT]

As a current and previous dog-owner, I've got to admit that's really accurate; Well said!

[@louiejc]

Are you saying that the men of the Fourth Age are lacking in contrast to their forefathers? Was it not their forefathers who surrendered their souls to the Dark Lord for want of power? I think that the arc of the story is the opposite of your opinion.

[@AnubisDark]

Nice idea, remind me of vampire in Anne Rice's novels.

[@RichardStrong86]

"Are you saying that the men of the Fourth Age are lacking in contrast to their forefathers?" It's established in the Silmarillion that the first men were of similar stature to that of Elves. So yes, they've been reduced, likely due to the marring of Arda by Morgoth.

[@SantomPh]

the world itself is becoming mortal, and the Elves cannot survive in such a world for long. Their spirits are too powerful and lives too long to endure such a place.

[@onigirimiyaa6042]

In a nutshell, the reason was that: Elves must go to the Undying Lands because there nothings fades, the same reason why the love of Aragorn & Arwen is painful is because Argorn is human and will die. Basically elves are just tired of being hurt.

[@SW-fn7cl]

Makes you understand why Elrond wanted her to leave with him

[@antoniocruz7792]

Yes but to are is also apply the same question as her father , to which kindred they want to belong to and she chose a mortal life, as been and Lothian

[@DefecTec]

But didn’t Arwen give up her immortality for Aragorn? Might be me remembering wrong but still

[@BlueGhostofSeaside]

Elves are my favorite race in Arda. I really wish the elves could have somehow stopped Fading and stayed in Middle Earth. Them leaving made Middle Earth feel less like the high fantasy I love in Silmarillion.

[@davidamajako961]

Thats because the world becomes the world we have today. Where men become dominant. Kinda funny if it would be real. Those elves and such would be looking back at earth and laugh what kinda shithole humans have made for themselves.

[@MrHistory269]

I feel you 😭

[@HueghMungus]

@@davidamajako961 Maybe some youngsters would try to go halfway and see all the despair, deaths and corruption and just decide to turn back. I can imagine the expression :D

[@the_real_littlepinkhousefly]

@@davidamajako961 I don't think they would laugh. I think they would feel a deep sadness.

[@gamerp1g]

Tolkien actually said the same thing regarding writing sequels. He felt like it was not high fantasy anymore.

[@dejected107]

You know when you are an elf and you have eternal life the idea of going into war is understandably not worth the risk. Would also explain why elves are so proficiently skilled with the bow

[@brucetucker4847]

That's the Wood Elves, the Noldor are more into swords and armor. And they have eternal life whether they're killed in battle or not because they'll eventually be reincarnated after their spirits rest for a while in the Halls of Mandos in Valinor (although Tolkien said that being killed was enormously traumatic for them and not something they'd take lightly the way, say, the immortals in the Highlander movies and series do.)

[@placeholdername3818]

@@brucetucker4847 so those that die eventually end up in Valinor regardless. Seems like the easiest way to travel back home.

[@brucetucker4847]

@@placeholdername3818 Even for immortal Elves violent death is horribly traumatic, and some of them spend eons as disembodied spirits in the Halls of Mandos before they're able to be reincarnated.

[@rminkof]

@@placeholdername3818 For the Noldor, anyway, that would be a home they had rejected. Their return was, in part, a pilgrimage of penitents.

[@PatriceBoivin]

They had millenia to practice. That's also why they were such artisans.

[@naomiwinters3738]

They basically have a deep depression and the only cure is leaving middle earth.

[@sheppycider123]

Naomi Winters and the only cure is more cow bell

[@rogueascendant6611]

Tolkien Elves are simply very very very emotional.

[@72Yonatan]

And if we see the influence of the bible on the works of Tolkien, then we see that only when the exiled Jews leave the lands of their exile and return home, will they be an "eternal people," matched to an eternal land.

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

Or rather they will turn invisible and wraith-like if they stay. Fate worse than death in many cases.

[@gonesoon1947]

@@matiasluukkanen7718 if they had saurons rings of power

[@bjstevenson89]

You said "Morgoths Taint" and my inner 12 year old laughed

[@Astavyastataa]

Dusk Dawg okay boomer

[@terrycothrenjr.8449]

I stopped the video and scrolled down just to make sure someone said something about it to restore my faith in humanity🤣

[@jaekoff5050]

Hot. I mean hahaha so funny XD

[@davidfreeman8758]

Astavyastataa I don’t get it either, unless thats a sexual reference. LOL.

[@kekedream]

😂😂😂 you're naughty!

[@amendus]

I think this relates to Tolkiens war experience. Your friends die young and you grow older.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Sorry it took a while for my latest video, but I had to go through a lot of different material for this one, and I tend to read the entire chapters that contain some relevant information, to ensure that I don't leave any details out! Hope you enjoy it, and thanks again for all your support! :)

[@titusdrissen8953]

I can really admire your interest and that you bother to do so much research

[@morinor1340]

i watch your vids because you put so much effort in them, no need to apologize :D

[@sooneradmirer4382]

So all elves would end up like Celebrimbor did in SoM?

[@GeekZoneMT]

Similar I guess, but I don't think that was their intent when they made him that way in SoM

[@GeorgiosLeo]

make a video about what was the timeless halles and the void please

[@tigranhambardzumyan3107]

Being a Tolkienist for years, I can say that your analizing skill is astonishing and mezmorizing, the theme of dualism (two sources of nature- the soul and external body) is a debatable philosophical issue that Tolkien used in a very beautiful manner.

[@andrewmaderer1989]

“Morgoth is the first, and the greatest dark lord.” It’s accurate statements like that that always make me yearn for a big screen appearance of him.

[@Xerxes2005]

I am afraid that not all Elves went to Valinor. In the chapter "Of Men" of the Silmarillion, Tolkien wrote: "In after days, when because of the triumph of Morgoth Elves and Men became estranged [that is what we see in LotR], as he most wished, those of the Elven-race that lived still in Middle-earth waned and faded, and Men usurped the sunlight. Then the Quendi [the Elves] wandered in the lonely places of the great lands and the isles, and took to the moonlight and the starlight, and to the woods and caves, becoming as shadows and memories, save those who ever and anon set sail into the West and vanished from Middle-earth." And Galadriel seems to say that the fate of the Lingerers will be even worse: "We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten." It looks like that not only their hröar will fade, but that their fëar will become dimmer as well.

[@thunderplunder1013]

What is hroar and fear

[@sodinc]

it looks like an explanation of fading myths in real life

[@placeholdername3818]

@@thunderplunder1013 watch the video he explains it

[@TheLostLemurian]

I wonder if this is a nod to the way the belief in faeries and elves etc faded in Western society. There are definitely still people who believe in them but most people nowadays do not.

[@rminkof]

All the non-human peoples declined in Middle-Earths 4th age. Noldor left because they were not supposed to be there to begin with.

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

Man Geek this was such a deep and beautiful video thanks a lot for making it just like I find it sad that Elves and Dwarfs were never meant to get along I also find it sad that Elves had to leave Middle Earth if only Morgoth never tanted Arda with his dark influence but then again I guess the Elves were always meant to be in Valinor and were always meant to stay there till I watched this video I always thought it would be so awesome to be immortal but now I know that like everything it has its positives and its negatives anyway as I always say loved this video and keep up the great work! :)

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks man!! :)

[@lukeskywalkerthe2nd773]

GeekZone Your welcome anytime!!! :)

[@ComradeSlice]

While Melkor’s intention was to mar Arda his disharmony only served to increase the beauty of it. At least this is how Eru Ilúvatar saw things.

[@aaronmarkham4424]

Luke Skywalker the 2nd it goes deeper, this is just a sip of water in an ocean

[@csdr0]

Aman and Middle Earth came to be because of the changes Melchor made during his return and war with the Valars destroying the lamps and Amaren and splitting Arda into continents, one of which is Aman where Valinor is.

[@ohifonlyx33]

8:22 Oh? the stars are untouched by Morgoth's evil, you say? "There is light and beauty up there, that no shadow can touch" brings an extra layer of meaning to Sam's line in the movie, adapted from the passage in the book. "There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."

[@rminkof]

Sam`s bearing a relic of Varda may also play into this.

[@blazingshadow2669]

Little do they know that Cthulhu is watching them from beyond the stars laughing at the irrelevance of elven and human sorrow.

[@PatriceBoivin]

Isn't it amazing how little references in the books refer to something else in the Silmarillion. Tolkien was amazing.

[@c.ladimore1237]

anne rice undoubtedly took the sorrow to inspire how her vampires die out. "Do you know how few vampires have the stamina for immortality? How quickly they perish of their own will? The world changes. We do not. Therein lies the irony that finally kills us." -Armand

[@GeekZoneMT]

I'm not familiar with that, but it's pretty interesting! :)

[@c.ladimore1237]

interview with the vampire (the vampire chronicles)

[@AnubisDark]

Lol i just wrote the same thing in another comment

[@carpediem880]

Anne Rice is one of my favorite authors.

[@ObsidianAngiris]

That was a good film, shame that the oldest living vampire in that world was only 400 years old

[@just_cade]

I love the lore of the Eldar. The Lord of the Rings' universe is so beautifully woven together, and it almost has a tone of sorrow throughout, especially when it comes to the elves. I also just genuinely feel like Tolkien's elves are divine beings, and everything they do is perfect and epic and amazing, blah blah blah. I could go on forever, but the writing speaks for itself.

[@melissajackson79]

"The fire of their spirit..." That makes me think of my father. He died young, at 59 01/11/2016. When I was young he always seemed larger than life. Much like some of the characters in these stories. He was a boyscout, navy man, scout master, talented musician, electronic tech, teacher, government employee of the spaces porogram during the height of its' popularity in the 1990's. He was my hero, I chased him for so long, not catching him until the birth of my daughter on his birthday. They were so close. I miss him him so very much.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thank you for sharing that with us melissa, he sounds like an amazing man

[@buckacre1348]

melissa jackson bless you.

[@melissajackson79]

Your welcome and he was.

[@pabloalvez915]

Get over yourself, dude!

[@wrybreadspread]

Dude, I am way impressed. quoting Tolkien, you have explained the Christian doctrine of the Fall From Grace. "Arda Marred" is what it's all about and sums it up perfectly.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks man, that means a lot to me! :)

[@howardsmith9342]

Yes, one can read a lot of Christian theology into the saga of Middle Earth. Eru Illuvatar is God, the other Valarie are the archangels, Morgoth is Lucifer, whose rebellion corrupted the earth and everything in it, etc. The trilogy is, IMHO, one of the masterpieces of Western literature.

[@tesspulido]

@@GeekZoneMT Super packed with information, insights, and breathtaking artwork. Great job! :)

[@ToBeSchooled]

I'd rather not. Tolkiens universe is more believable then the Christian god

[@rht785]

@@ToBeSchooled god os more real than you can understand .

[@krystasites9034]

Arwen chose fading over her love for Aragorn. She literally went back to Lothlorian after his death and died amidst the trees where her grandparents had lived for millennia.

[@ohifonlyx33]

HI CAN U NOT? 😭😭😭😭

[@krystasites9034]

@@ohifonlyx33 can I not what? It's in the books that Tolkien wrote. I'm not inventing a new.story lol

[@ohifonlyx33]

@@krystasites9034 Okay. Tolkien needs to stop then. And then you going around telling everyone without a warning. Anyways I'm just being extra about it cause it's sad and I didn't know that before.

[@rminkof]

She chose humanity, not fading.

[@VariaPandora]

@@rminkof No. She chose to be mortal. She didn't choose humanity, thats like saying "a dog chose to be a cat". These are different races. Anyway, mortal elves still live a lot longer than humans, even Dunedain like Aragorn, so @Krysta reetz is actually right about Arwen "suiciding". She went to Lorien and spent an entire winter there, all alone (although for an elf a winter must feel like a few days for us), then she laid down at a spot where she and Aragorn once had a romantic moment (Cerin Amroth) and died, while their first son became King of Gondor. Galadriel and her Husband Celeborn were actually her grandparents. Here is the link to a forum where it is clarified and the actual book passage is cited: www.quora.com/In-The-Lord-of-the-Rings-does-Arwen-become-mortal-or-is-she-immortal-She-is-able-to-choose-to-live-a-mortal-life-but-what-exactly-does-that-mean-Does-that-mean-she-is-capable-of-dying-Does-the-story-of-L%C3%BAthien-explain-anything

[@fatman80000]

When you mentioned elves "fading" , I'm reminded of the Nazgul , Gollum, and Bilbo - the rings of men and the One Ring stretched their lives until they are only shadows of themselves. I believe it is both a mockery and a mirror of what elves experience.

[@rminkof]

Hence why the ringbearers go West, too.

[@SantomPh]

at least Bilbo managed to stay lucid and free spirited into old age despite being exhausted by the Ring. The Elves fading seems to be exactly like the Nazgul.

[@SantomPh]

@@rminkof the Ringbearers were invited to Valinor. Frodo was tormented by his three wounds, Bilbo was nearing the end of his life and Sam came after living for 80 years, the best life any Hobbit could. The Ring has no effect on them after it is destroyed, but Frodo in particular feels empty and sad.

[@jhonrafaelbernardo3025]

@@SantomPh They're different, the reason why elves fade is that their body cannot handle their spirit no more because of morgoths taint,

[@josephbuttigieg9757]

Great video and very well researched. Once I read, (don't know if in the books or on some forum) that men envied the elves for their immortality, while elves envied men for not having to endure the slow decay of time and the grief that it brings. Each race was adamant that Eru favoured their counterparts. To be honest, before delving into Middle Earth lore, I used to think that immortality must be such a great thing to experience. However, once I read most of Tolkien books I was not sure of that anymore.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Yes I think it's from the Finrod writing I mentioned in the video, where Finrod says that Elves might eventually come to envy the mortality of men, and the gift of men that their spirits are not bound to the world of Arda.

[@O-sa-car]

Imagine Elrond having to see the decline of his brother's descendants. His twin brother Elros was the first king of Numenor

[@rminkof]

If reading Tolkien makes you wary of power ( which immortality is but one variant of ), that was very much as intended.

[@chrisc6857]

Immortality IS a good thing... Just not in a flawed and broken world.

[@blazednlovinit]

But those elves who stayed in the undying lands are immortal and don't have to suffer it's downsides. Not only that they live with benevolent demi-gods, their land remains at peace since the beginning times and the quality of everything there is probably amazing, architecture, art, food will all be of heaven-like quality. Men have no opt-out for the disadvantages of their "gift" :P

[@masamune2984]

This was the most brilliant explanation of this entire concept/theme I’ve ever yet seen. Well done and thank you, as always! 😊

[@jeffhallam2004]

Amazing video and a great topic! I always wondered about this!

[@maidros85]

I would add that the Fea of the Elves can be redressed in the Halls of Mandos, so the fading, like death, is not permanent to them. As long as there is Arda, so will they be. This is why you were on point at the end of your video. The timelessness of Valinor (the literal Undying Lands) is more in-tune with the elven nature, so they will be happier there.

[@rminkof]

Well, Noldor elven nature, anyway.

[@jhonrafaelbernardo3025]

@@rminkof all elves have the same nature, the urge to return home.

[@EvronWard]

I am an absolute nerd when it comes to LOTR. I stumbled across your lore vids and not only am I impressed by your insight as well as the literature that you have had the ability to both read and share but you make me look like a novice when it comes to LOTR. I thought I knew a lot but I have learned so much from watching your vids. I would like to thank you for your insight and exposure to more literature and lore. Specifically the notes from Tolkien. Is that a book that can be purchased or were you lucky enough to get your hands on one. Keep up the awesome work. I would love to share with you that my close friends and I that geek out over LOTR have an annual get together we call Sauron-a-thon. Every year,a couple of times a year,we get together,put a menu together of what we think folks of that time period would have feasted upon and eat,drink, and be merry all while watching all 3 of the extended versions of the fellowship in one day. We tried incorporating the Hobbit movies but they have a much different feel about them and they did not quite fit. Hope you enjoyed the anecdote. Take care.

[@TheKrieg45]

That sounds cool as hell. Wish I knew enough people to do that.

[@placeholdername3818]

Sounds like a very long day. What would the length be? 9 hours to watch all 3 movies?

[@iprobablyforgotsomething]

I wish I had such dedicated nerd-friends like you and yours! XD Perhaps you live in the Northwest, and I might travel to your gathering's abode to make merry and view the glory that is LotR with my fellow devotees? ; D

[@ferretmom4ever858]

DMT Me too, at least I thought so. I’ve read unfinished tales and the Silmarillion but didn’t know about the 12 volume history of middle earth.I have some reading to do!

[@misselder1]

DMT - You are a true LOR rock star and worthy of your own elven cloak!

[@swordofetro8291]

I've listened to a lot of lore videos and yours are by far the best and most logically explained.

[@sullycanuck120]

Hello from Canada! This was the first video that I have seen from you. It was excellent! I look forward to watching previous ones and can't wait until the next one. Thank you.

[@joejessup9775]

BEST VIDEO YET! I've always wondered about the meaning of "elves fading". The metaphysics of Tolkien's Middle-Earth/Valinor is better made than any other fantasy mythology.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Joe Jessup Thanks Joe! Tolkien truly managed to create a fascinating mythology around it!!

[@aaronmarkham4424]

Joe Jessup they get tired of living, so they just give up, and pretty much stay in one place like sitting or laying down for many years till they literally become nothing

[@minun5]

I'm sad of the metaphor. Immortal seeing everything passes by...sad

[@Teag_Brohman15]

now I know how Robots feel

[@72Yonatan]

This is also the existential sadness that each and every human being feels when he faces his own mortality, or that of those whom he loves.

[@MichaelEKaz]

Wonderful video! Very thoughtful and in-depth, it changed how I saw the elves. Thank you!

[@Kiki-en9vm]

I have been looking for this answer for year ,i'm most happy now after watching your video , cos i finaly put the pieces together. Thanks a lot

[@titusdrissen8953]

yet another amazing video!! The last few minutes were amazing to watch and you made me really understand the burden inmortallity carry's. Keep up this amazing work!!

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks titus, I really appreciate your kind words! :)

[@jennihaase6803]

Such haunting and interesting explanations. I have read The Silmarillion twice, the Hobbit once, and have seen all 6 of Peter Jackson's movies several times. My greatest interest has always been about the elves. Thank you for your insight.

[@goodolzimm5827]

I always find it enjoyable when clarity is presented from so many aspects of a story. Thanks for taking the time to research and present a concise explanation. I wrote when the first movie came out that a generation was lucky to have one classic, we've had several.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks man, I'm glad you enjoyed it! :) I agree with you about the classics!

[@the_real_littlepinkhousefly]

This is such a beautiful and thorough explanation -- thank you!

[@laurentiuoctavian2964]

I can't wait for your next video my friend! Great video btw! Lauren

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks Lauren :)

[@zachstevens7382]

wow... truely great video here and thoughts and reason to this subject. very good and deep. thanks

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks Zack!

[@Murdo2112]

When you consider all this it really ups the stakes on the Exile of the Noldor. It's a far more serious punishment than simply "you can't come home". Also, when Galadriel rejects the Ring and feels the ban on her return to Valinor lifted, it's a far more powerful moment than it may seem, without knowing the ultimate fate from which she has been reprieved. Great video.

[@zwleathers]

These videos are awesome! I’ve discovered it’s actually pretty hard to do videos like this through what I’ve seen because there’s just so much backstory and information to everything that is scattered throughout the timeline that people have a hard time putting it simply, in a way that makes sense and is not too complicated and is not an hour long. You do a very good job of keeping it as simple as it can be not to mention the art you have on your videos, I don’t know where the fuck you found that shit but it’s dope. I’m glad I found your channel

[@dorakalbfell5156]

This explains a lot about them to me, especially their sadness. Taking the ship to the West. It s a wonderful option though. I wish we mortals had that. Valinor, the Undying Lands.... what a great way to live out the rest of your life. At peace, with nothing to think or worry about. I wish I could 've gone with them.

[@dustinbrandel59]

Christianity

[@rminkof]

Well, Númenor managed to bugger that up. Though Valinor seems to give one plenty to think about ;)

[@SantomPh]

the Elves warned that for uninvited mortals, Valinor would be too much and they would burn out quickly as Men don't live that long. the Ringbearers and Gimli had invitations from powerful people in Valinor so one presumes they are allowed to be there with protection. It's not heaven, it's elven-home. Men go beyond this to places unknown even to the Elves, who are jealous of this fact.

[@craigmoir8655]

I would agree to it. it's wonderful to know how deep Tolkien went with all in middle earth

[@erfelgamazig]

This answers a ton of questions that I already had. Thanks so much! 🌴🌴

[@christoph11987]

I just want to say, that your videos are great and I watch and enjoy every single one of them. Also I am very impressed of how much you know about "The lord of the rings". These facts, which you are explaining, are real fascinating and give me a deep emotional understanding of this wonderful world Tolkien created. Thanks a lot! And please keep making more of these videos. Greetings from Germany!

[@Lightwish01]

It's not very often that I come across something that I haven't already learned about when it comes to the Lord of the Rings and its lore; therefore, after I clicked on this video and started listening I was pleasantly surprised to hear information that was new to me. Of course I was well aware about the elves leaving for Valinor and the "fading" that had been mentioned numerous times. What I wasn't aware of was the meaning behind the fading and the separation of body and spirit. Well done on explaining this. This topic is one that I have never had the pleasure to investigate closely so it was very enlightening when it was explained in detail in your video...well done! Please continue to make videos like this one that explore the details and lore in the dark corners of Tolkien and his works. Too often content creators recycle the same old stories from Tolkien including the same old lore that we are more or less already aware of. If you can find other hidden gems of lore similar to this one and then tunnel deep into its hidden knowledge to share with us I know I will be here to read it!

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks man, that really means a lot to me! I hope I manage to keep you entertained! :)

[@raizelm1578]

Really superb content. I think you also caused me to once again admire Thranduil, the Only significant Elven leader who held his kingdom without a magical Ring of Power! I think this reality makes him even formidable. As Lee Pace so succinctly pointed out, Thranduil is an Elf with dungeons. This says volumes about his nature and how he held his Kingdom together if you stop and think about it. Interestingly, nowhere is Thranduil ever called a tyrant-king or a dictator, or is it even hinted that he used force against anything other than the Mordor filth creeping through Mirkwood.In the light of your information, it is impossible to fathom the pain he must have experienced remembering when his land was Greenwood and the happier times before the coming of the Sorcerer and the corruption of his domain.

[@roloswife]

Thank you for your explanations. They are very insightful and educational.

[@jasonlefebvre2419]

Great video! Well done!

[@zacheus1]

....Same as our cats and dogs, as humans, their lives are short, to them, seeing one of us die, is a rare occurrence...

[@Miraklum]

Finally understand why they left...thank you sir.

[@GeekZoneMT]

You're welcome buddy!

[@jaymesrod4209]

i really love all your videos, your very knowledgeable in all the lore!

[@nazuky12]

This hit me right in the feels ='( great video.

[@SJQuirke]

Very interesting - Tolkien had a lifetime of thinking this all out it seems - and from the reading the books I gathered a deep deep sadness about life - perhaps something like the groaning of all creation Paul talks about in Romans 8. Thank you for this considered analysis

[@SoledadGooner]

"I don't know why.... it makes me sad."

[@flawlessvic]

Man your channel....tons of content. Subbed.

[@SW-fn7cl]

Beautifully displayed and explained 👍

[@grapefruitsimmons]

"Morgoths taint" sounds like a black metal band

[@jehanzaya1686]

Hey, I really missed your epic videos. I keep checking my subscription for your videos. And can you please do a video of king theoden. Or about Rohan which is my favourite kingdom. But you don't have to. I will still love your videos like always and forever my friend.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks man! I've recently made one on Baldor which is essentially a story of a Rohan Prince, but I'll be doing more videos on their kingdom in the future for sure! :)

[@nicanordawnmourne4443]

I wanted to let you know, that i really appreciate your videos, whil reading the silmarillion, these videos help me to understand some of the lore more easily and more clearly!

[@DanceCat7]

Nicely done!

[@helmuthelmlos5067]

as always a huge load of information, super nice. i think there are still elves at first arwen and legolas and then also the mirkwood elves in general. but Lothlorien and secret vally would be left alone allso gondolin the havencity would be empty. i think of thranduil as someone who would stay in the mirkwood until he dies and that he has a very straong hand on his fellow elves so that the most mirkwood elves would stay, withou galadriel and elrond their elven kingdoms would go too, i think they are too much of an idol for the "normal" elves so they would follow them everywhere.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Legolas does go to the undying lands later on with Gimli though. It's really hard to predict, I think it would depend a lot on whether the elves that remained in Middle-Earth would still know how to reach Valinor, because I think once they start to fade significantly, very few would actively choose to remain there!

[@helmuthelmlos5067]

well thats rigth, but i remember frodo saying "Bilbo you have a great honor, to go with the last ships to the undying land" or very similiar so if there would be elves remainig they would be trapped (because if the elves were able to leave middle earth than it wouldn't be the last ship, okay it is maybe just the last ship bilbo could get on befor he dies.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Perhaps because it was made by Cirdan the shipwright. However, later on we're told that Legolas made a boat and took Gimli along to the undying lands :)

[@ducovanderwoude6971]

Arwen dies because of a broken heart

[@erynlasgalen1949]

helmut helmlos Very good comment about Thranduil staying, except for the opposite reason. He rules a people who never wanted to sail west, according to Tolkien's own worda, unless they are seduced by the sight of the sea as poor Legolas was.

[@xibbysciberras6608]

Another great video!

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks Xibby :)

[@johannahpatterson6498]

Loving this information! Thank you. Your explanations are very good.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Cheers Jovannah!

[@johannahpatterson6498]

So happy to be a part of the "geek zone". :)

[@melissaivy5199]

Very very fasinateing I find your explanation very intriguing cause I've wondered the same thing!!! Thank you very much!!! I enjoyed this very deeply!!!

[@AshGreen359]

I think the final straw was that their rings of power were no longer working.

[@rminkof]

Noldor repatriation had been going on for quite a while before then.

[@blazingshadow2669]

Their only mistake was to not make a wall and have valinor pay for it

[@sarwatarannya8786]

@@blazingshadow2669 hey now. Some of the valar,i assume are really great people

[@SantomPh]

the Rings kept Rivendell and Lothlorien free of taint and the same as they were in the First and Second Ages. After their powers died with Sauron, they became ordinary places Elves do not feel alive in. When Arwen dies the entire forest of Lothlorien is abandoned, despite being "the heart of Elvendom on Earth". Rivendell is mostly empty, with most of Elrond's household like Gildor, Glorfindel and Erestor joining him at the Havens.

[@theresesorrell7126]

The elves are so much more beautiful, purer, majestic,elegant, over all, so much more amazing then mankind. Yes...? Thank you for the wonderful video. 🙏🏽😊🕊😌

[@rminkof]

& yet, they envy us.

[@dichotomy1593]

Thank you for the video. it was very helpful.

[@GeekZoneMT]

You're welcome!

[@melodxkay6727]

I loved your video. Thank you for making it! :)

[@GeekZoneMT]

Cheers, and you're welcome! :)

[@voicesoftheoutworld3617]

There is one that did fade. Arwin. Didn't Elrond say that the "light of the Valur is/has left you. " And yet Galadriel used so much of her "Fea " resisting the one ring that she "diminished " immediately and had no choice but to return to the west.

[@adelest9500]

She may have faded, but I think it's mentioned in the books that she laid down and died like a mortal woman, I don't know if it's different, but I think her spirit disappeared too.

[@s.g.3898]

She was of the half elven

[@terrijohnson693]

Yes, as S.G said, Arwen was half elven so she could choose to become mortal and pass on as one, instead of being immortal and having to go to Valinor or diminish. She did have more choices it seems. And her father had chosen immortality. But even being mortal, she would live much longer then Aragorn, so she had to watch him grow old and die:

[@michaelrandold4656]

If i remember, she passed on what grace she had to frodo and perhaps this is what enabled him to go west. He essentially takes her place in the west. Sam of course can’t be contained lol. Also i might be confusing this part with the movie which shouldn’t in any way be referenced. One extra thing i see artists and the movies and all other such get wrong; the elves that go west have beheld the light of Aman and this changes them. They appear to “glow” from within. The Sindar, the grey elves are darker etc. They never stood before the light, the tree Telperion and as such should not have that inner glow the High Elves do.

[@TheAncientAstronomer]

Well I really did enjoy your video, but one small thing. Everything that Melkor did, happened exactly as it should be. The world whas never intended to be perfect and symmetrical. That is something that the Valar never understood, but Melkor did, at least in the beginning, before he went down hill with his nihilistic craziness.

[@GeekZoneMT]

That's possible, though why will Arda be perfected at the end? Like why make Middle-Earth go through so much trouble if at the end of the day you'll eventually perfect it? It just would seem a bit odd, on Eru's part

[@TheAncientAstronomer]

GeekZone How dare you questioning the Almighty!! Well joke aside, the entire creation mythology of Middle_Earth has it's base on Christianity, therefore the explanation as to why the second Creation is going to be better, is fairly similar. It's a test. Who's worthy and who's not to participate in the second Song. Key words, Dagor Dagorath!

[@rminkof]

Morgoth serves unwillingly ( to quote Tolkien ). The Valar are as surprised as he is at how Arda gets a life of its own.

[@deepankajbhattacharya3812]

Thank you very much for the wonderful explanation.

[@JCAH1]

Very nicely done.

[@breembo]

wow didnt realize how much of an alegory the elves were for adam and eve. perfect creations living in a perfect garden, but were tainted and cast out to the corrupted word and corrupted by original sin. they always wanted to go back but cant. its like the elves are being called back to eden.

[@breembo]

Michael Simkins not sure where atheist or agnostic came from? anyway i personally believe that getting thrown out of eden was due to the great floods washing them them away during the melting of glaciers. since where we think the gardens are located would be in the gulf of persia. eating the fruit was mans gaining the knowledge to work the land and grow food for themselves, not what just god provided via scavenging via oasis spots. and the middle east was pretty hostile land compared to the oasis spots with huge rivers all around like the gulf of persia would have been

[@braemtes23]

@@michaelsimkins7078 The apple contained the knowledge of good and evil, not scientific or intellectual knowledge. That is why they covered themselves afterwards from a sense of shame. They lost their innocence.

[@sandelic1]

@@braemtes23 It was knowledge of self and birth of individuality. Of right to choose. It has nothing to do with good or evil. That's implying naked body is evil, which is absurd.

[@braemtes23]

@@sandelic1 Genesis Chapter 3 And the eyes of both of them were opened and they perceived themselves to be naked....And the Lord God made for Adam and his wife, garments of skins, and clothed them......And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil.... God himself stated that it was the knowledge of good and evil, so you can take it up with him.

[@sandelic1]

​@@braemtes23 Quoting is not understanding, obviously. But it is expected. You take Genesis literally, that any serious study of religion would laugh at. And dear, 'God' said nothing. Bible was written by ancient shepherds who thought lightning was act of God.

[@bertramflier3974]

The elves are leaving Middle Earth even before Frodo has fulfilled his task. This means they know or feel that Frodo will succeed, meaning that they have to leave because of the dimishing power of the elven rings.

[@greenlungo3996]

Galadriel said something like that, but it never made sense to me. The elves were powerful magical beings before Sauron gave them rings, so I don't see why they would be entirely dependent on them? Especially in that Lothlorien is filled with life and magic coming directly through its connection to the the Earth spirit. I always felt that the elves were ditching the mortals on Middle Earth because of how little faith they had in anyone stopping the rise of Sauron.

[@rminkof]

Actually, the Noldor knew that the Ring-Bearer would either A: Succeed, or B: fail, in which case Sauron would only be defeated by them staying & becoming copies of him.

[@rminkof]

@Logan Byrd Or the Noldor could choose to stay & fight Sauron, possibly even using the One Ring. & would most likely win, but corrupt themselves even more by doing so.

[@angel91485]

not neceesarily, like what in the video said, there were different reasons, those who've been to Valinor are being called back (feeling the need to return), and those who were born earlier who had the taint of Morgoth's were already feeling weary..the elves were known to already departing way before the ring was presented in Rivendell, and Elrond did not show signs he knew about Frodo carrying it.

[@cjtrules1]

@@rminkof If the ring went back to Sauron then there was nothing the elves could do to defeat him. They were already too weak and few in number. PLUS the kingdoms of men were small and weak as well. The decision was to go into the West & not help fight or stay, help fight, and if the ring fell to Sauron still they would die fighting.

[@shetaz905]

I am so glad I found you! I wondered why the Elves had to leave. Thank you for your beautiful explanation.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Cheers, and you're welcome! :)

[@cathrynbyrnes8737]

That was really good. Thank you.

[@MisterTutor2010]

Being immortal is not all that impressive in a place referered to as "The Undying Lands" :)

[@GeekZoneMT]

Mortals would still die there though :P

[@rminkof]

Yes, that is the point.

[@rminkof]

@John Arch He punishes those Númenoreans who did not mix races, for example

[@HueghMungus]

@MisterTutor2010 "when everyone is immortal, no one is". Not exactly the quote from a fictional character called S

[@jacenstarheart6256]

Epic!

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks Jacen!

[@jacenstarheart6256]

GeekZone You're very welcome!

[@hibasobh]

I have always wondered by the Elves departed, thank you for your explanation!

[@celestejohnston6613]

Just found these vids! Love them. Just wanted to say thank you for posting them. I love the elves, their love for their lands, for life and beauty. the "long defeat" that they endured. Theirs is a sad story. really good discussion of why the Elves feel the pull to leave. I think most did but I think some stayed. I think that Elladan and Elrohir were too connected to Middle Earth and would die if separated. Though I think they did fade eventually. Sad really.

[@jamesmc04]

If the Elves stay in Middle-earth, they will fade away. They belong in Valinor, the Blessed Realm, which since the Fall of Numenor in 3319 Second Age (3141 years before the destruction of the Ring and the final fall of Sauron) has not been part of the world, & can therefore be reached only by Elven-ship. If the Noldorin Elves AKA High Elves had not rebelled & left Valinor, as told in the Silmarillion, they would not be subject to fading. By the time of Sauron’s passing in 3019 Third Age, the Noldorin Elves had been in Middle-earth for 6,460 Years of the Sun, in decline all the time, because they returned to Middle-earth before they were meant to.

[@rminkof]

Before?

[@jamesmc04]

@@rminkof Sorry, what are you asking ?

[@ashmoleproductions5407]

@@rminkof They will return when Morgoth is vanquished permanently.

[@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750]

Where do Men go when they die?

[@jamesmc04]

Gilgamesh ,the treasure hunter The short answer: no-one knows. Tolkien’s ideas about the post mortem state of the Elves seem much more developed & worked out than his ideas about the post mortem state of Men.

[@peterpoulsen1210]

Wow Melkor have indeed disliked this! - Damn mate this is very good work, I don't like the elven race myself, but this vedio is very interesting with theories and what you have found! :) And to what you sad about the elven immortality is true. If you ask me the elves are envious of the humans as they/(we) live every day to its fullness with every moment that is precious, knowing this day or the day to tomorrow could be ending for them/us.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Thanks Peter! :)

[@peterpoulsen1210]

You're welcome! It's me or us to thank you, for your great work! :D

[@peterpoulsen1210]

I'm dyslexic... So just rub that in my face... you're not the first or the last, to do so... - I can't help it. I have struggled with it all my life, 23 years... But do you know what, it's people like YOU! Who are wrong.. I don't let it stop me, nay will I nor. - Say what you will to make you feel better.

[@jono8884]

Very nice content, thanks.

[@lambielikesit]

This was super insightful!

[@ericbonifield768]

"...contains part of Morgoths taint" Heheheeeeeee.....oh dude

[@iluvfigs4712]

+GeekZone - So, what do you think happened when Arwen and Aragorn married? - to Arwen? She was beginning to fade already, but it seemed: If all she hoped for - the Kingship of Aragorn, the defeat of Sauron, and the reign of goodness - with Evil being destroyed - for the most part - not entirely? For it does say Sauron poured Much of his power and malice into the ring - but not all of it - he may be greatly weakened - but not completely destroyed? The evil is greatly diminished - but will creep back into the world little by little? (she saw the prophecy of their child) - the land was 'healed' by the defeat of Sauron, with the destruction of the 1 ring of power, and peace, now reigns in middle earth. What will happen to Arwen, now? What will happen to Aragorn and Arwen's child? Half-elf and half-human? Will they cease fading and will some good power protect them, now?

[@brucetucker4847]

Arwen chose to become human, so their child would be fully human just like Elros' children were, though probably prettier and even longer lived than Aragorn.

[@brianjohnson5272]

So did Luthien she chooses mortality and her decendents are Elros and Elrond and they are given a choice

[@aqf235]

Arwen's fate is told in Appendix A of TLOTR. She returns to Lorien after Aragorn dies and passes away there. She leaves behind their son Eldarion and daughters.

[@kylelindgren5487]

Love your videos, thank you for making them.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Cheers Kyle!

[@psychotripnerdstuff]

Holy shit. You just explained this better than anyone I've ever seen. This may sound cliche, but finally understanding this age old question really makes me see Tolkien's work in an even better light than I did before. There's just so much beauty and depth in this world he created, and reading about it on a wiki can only give you so much. Thank you!

[@tulkasastaldo4612]

Could you please do a video on the wainriders ! P.S. You sir are a genius

[@GeekZoneMT]

I'll do one for sure in the future, it's on my list :)

[@tulkasastaldo4612]

Thank you sir !!

[@koiushariskelton772]

TULKAS ASTALDO

[@alexshellnot4407]

is melkor weaker on earth or something? ive always been confused on how the greatest valar would almost die in battles with lesser spirits such as ungoliant and fingolfin, he always has to get ballied out by his balrogs, could you do a video on this cause it seems all the major spirits like valar and ainur seem so much weaker on the earth than they should be.like Gandalf couldn't fight off the wargs when the company got out of the mines without having the eagles help

[@TheAncientAstronomer]

alexshellnot The weakness of Melkor is a result of all of his hideous work. For all he created he put a part of his divine power in it. Being the Orks or the Dragons or Trolls. He even put his power into the earth her self. The more of his power he shared,the weaker he got,to the point where a Elf could wound him seven times ( Fingolfin ). But even so he was still powerful enough, that all of the Valar where needed in order to defeat him. As for Gandalf and the Istari, they had specific orders from the Valar and especially Eonwe NOT to use the divine/ angelic powers but to act through consolations and guidance. The appeard weakness whas not of their choice.

[@alexshellnot4407]

ok thanks a lot! This topic has always confused me so thanks!

[@MrChickennugget360]

remember Morgoth spread his essence all over the world- his "taint" infects everything- but doing this has made him very weak

[@aaronmarkham4424]

alexshellnot Melkor is in chains beyond any realm, only for the very last battle will he be brought forth again,

[@aaronmarkham4424]

Melkor even weak is beyond anyone in middle earth, he is far stronger than Sauron who was only a captain of Melkors

[@brianchify]

GeekZone ... I love your videos and really appreciated this one. I especially liked your reminder of the more subtle reasons elves stayed in Middle Earth, by quoting The Silmarillion where Tolkien explains the prestige elves enjoy by remaining there, and their understanding they'd lose their elevated status as the "highest people" and would fall to the "bottom of the hierarchy" should they migrate to the West. This is especially true of the Noldor since we know Turgon and Galadriel desired to lead and influence their kindred by ruling their own kingdoms. I like your overall thought where you have arrived at the concept that elves’ hröar fade over time and are overcome by their spirit. If we were to see a Tolkien elf today, we’d surly mistake it for an angel. With deep respect, I noticed the title “Why Must the Elves Leave Middle-Earth?” is not answered here. They don’t have to leave because they’re fading. They are being drawn home, because this is their fate. They understand, at differing levels, with the passing of the Third Age the Dominion of Men is upon them. The wisest beings in Middle Earth know this and are planning the transition (for ill or good). The more common Sindarin and Sylvan elves feel the pull of the ocean in their hearts and are compelled deeply. A thought I had as I watched this video was your emphasis on the words "fade" and "fading" and less on the concept of "diminish" or "diminishing." Tolkien puts more emphasis on the fact the elves are diminishing in the Third Age, rather than fading. By this we are shown the actual number of their kind reducing greatly as they are each pulled toward the sea and the High Road to the West, which has the effect of reducing the stature of the powerful elves such as Elrond and Galadriel, as they have fewer subjects they can influence. Either by departing Middle Earth, or by death, the elves’ knowledge and magic is diminishing or becoming less. This decrease is magnified for the wisest and most powerful elves as their individual power is lessened when the rings they possess lose their potency following the destruction of the One Ring. In fact, this is specifically what Galadriel refers to when she says, "“I pass the test, I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel.” Although the title may be a little off, I watched the entire video and it inspired me to write to you. (I don’t write many comments.) Keep up the great work. I love your videos! BC

[@DMEII]

Love this video. So informative. Where did his info and knowledge come from? The Silmarilion?

[@Tristan2018]

The gift of men, morality...something The Kings men didn’t understand ;) Speaking of that, Maybe a video on the history of Númenor?

[@09stoneheart]

What abouy Cirdan the Shipwright? He has been alive since at least the migration of the eldar to Valinor.

[@GeekZoneMT]

Yes, he's probably one of the oldest elves Alive and was showing some signs of age (like being one of the few Elves that had a beard). Despite this even he hadn't faded yet, which does show at what an old age this must occur!

[@SantomPh]

In the original drafts of the story that was literally the last ship, but Tolkien changed his mind and kept Cirdan there, stroking his beard

[@aaronmarkham4424]

09stoneheart Elves only fade if they want to fade, they make the choice to not go on, other wise they are killed or keep living

[@s.g.3898]

Galadriel was even older and I think was the last elf alive to have seen the two trees in Valinor

[@lumpa1987]

@@s.g.3898 Cirdan was older, he just didnt see the two trees in Valinor because he followed his duty commanded by the Valar and stayed in Beleriand/Middle-Earth. When Mithrandir/Gandalf arrives in Middle-Earth in the Grey Havens in the Third Age (Arda being reshaped already), Cirdan give him Narya and prophetise to him that he will leave Middle-Earth with the last ship. Galadriel is roughly 3000 years younger than him, but she did went to Valinor and then back to Middle-Earth after the first Kin-slaying of Feanor, although she didnt participate in it (and thats why she's able to go back i think btw)

[@chrissnyder8415]

I always wondered this. Thank you, my friend!

[@GeekZoneMT]

You're welcome Chris :)

[@robertsacchi7976]

Awesome. job well done but couldn't help but chuckle everytime you said morgoths taint hahaha love your channel

[@smug880]

"imagine you are immortal and everything aro-" *DEAL*

[@cattyghostly7414]

Immortality is a horrible curse if you actually think about it.

[@alduintheanti-dragonborn]

Immortality to me seems quite boring. Everything would be pointless eventually. What do you do after you've done literally every possible (And impossible because you'd find a way) thing you could do? Well, nothing, as there's nothing to do. Most human beings rather not sit around doing nothing all day.

[@alduintheanti-dragonborn]

@Trip Gil They're related

[@alduintheanti-dragonborn]

@Trip Gil Considering they can have children together...

[@gauntlettcf5669]

@Trip Gil but half elves are not sterile

[@AbrahamLincoln4]

Some say that the elves went up North into the Artic Circle to work for a fat guy named "Santa Claus" there they remained.

[@Ulvehunden1970]

LoL :-D

[@stevemiller4494]

This video was very enjoyable thank you for your work

[@ChrisBrengel]

Great video!