Why Nocturne Remaster Falls Flat | PS2 vs Switch Comparison

With a new Remaster of Nocturne released it has to be dope right?! RIGHT?! Well, its good but there are some differences you need to know. Taking a look at the PS2 & Switch version to give you a better idea where we are coming from. Enjoy!
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#shinmegamitensei #nocturneremaster #comparison

[@jamesgames4553]

Just wanted to the point out that the character models aren’t brand new - they have the same poly count of the original game. as you pointed out the textures are redone on them which is good!

[@Kelphelp]

There a source by chance? Maybe it'd just be but the models look significantly different especially Demi Fiend

[@jamesgames4553]

@@Kelphelp I was just counting the jagged edges of the models in your video and they definitely are the same between both versions. But if you look at the PS2 game running at 480i on a CRT and compare it to Switch at 1080p, the PS2 models now look a lot more angular because the poly count hasn’t changed: PS2: aws1.discourse-cdn.com/standard10/uploads/retrogameboards/original/3X/2/a/2a21e4c948b8a2f1f5476f15f4328d54929cebc3.jpeg Switch: aws1.discourse-cdn.com/standard10/uploads/retrogameboards/original/3X/0/a/0a000c9a505b05287983a541e69d4cb3857a3ca8.jpeg The shape of her face and hair is perfectly round on PS2 at the resolution the model was designed for, but in HD it exposes the low poly count (low by 720p/1080p standards!) for what it is! I guess also - looking at the buttons on her shirt collar there is evidence that some of the new textures were AI upscaled rather than redrawn.

[@jackstack2136]

Agreed, these are the original models, the only difference in Remaster is the lighting method.

[@Kelphelp]

Interesting how the lighting really changes the overall look of the characters.

[@matteste]

To add to this, it seems like only the main character had the textures redone. All the others, such as the demons and the world, still use the original PS2 graphics. And hell, there is one ending of the game that is straight up unfinshed.

[@apollorock3r244]

I think the reason for the Mainax version being paid DLC is because of Dante. I guess there was some licencing fees for Atlus to pay Capcom to bring him back in the game. The other 2 I do agree is a bit weird why they're paid.

[@Kelphelp]

Yea that's my jive right there. Perfectly understand for Dante but not everything else. Screw that Imho

[@DarkSoulx7]

It all comes down to money. SMH.

[@ghost-fs7th]

See, I've got to disagree with the bloom. I think the light was unnecessary. Scenes that should be dark, gloomy, and mysterious have had their brightness increased to unnecessary levels. Besides the bloom, I also dislike the way the planes of the face have been lit in the remaster. Or rather, the lack of light. Everyone has smooth plate faces, and it's really uncanny. As far as graphics go, I actually prefer the original. The hazy, blurry, murky look fits the mood much better than the bright, crisp look in the remaster. Just my opinion, I've never even played the original, but I wish I had.

[@Kelphelp]

I feel that the original was more suited to have a darker atmosphere, but I do feel the bloom adds more to the overall look of the game which I prefer. Everything just feels a bit more polished in this department.

[@jamesgames4553]

Re: the framerate - I think it’s because they ported the game to Unity Engine. Might be running some compatibility layer behind the scenes like Katamari Damacy Encore (another poor PS2 to Unity port).

[@Kelphelp]

Very likely cause, but still disappointing nontheless. Would have been nice to see some optimization.

[@Slappaccino]

This isn't really relevant, but I wish they would do full remakes of SMT1 or 2 instead of more SMT / Persona ports.

[@Kelphelp]

That be much harder ground up. I mean it's cool but atm doesn't sound realistic

[@qwertygutierrez1293]

I wish that if they do somehow remake 1 and 2 they would play like strange journey

[@TheDeathOfLucifer]

The way I see it is they did the different content with Raidou and they could of skipped the Dante stuff because it costs money to lisence that stuff. But they decided to add in an option to buy it. With the remixed music dlc kinda same idea. With the Lucifer extra stuff I think that just should of been in there. Give people a reason to buy this version

[@Kelphelp]

That is true but I felt the music & Lucifer least should have been there. Dante makes sense for licensing bit I'll admit it leaves a sour taste.

[@zirononame5038]

besides the fact that an english translation for the raidou content has been up since 2017 and that the original game has been on the ps3 store since 2014 pcsx2 runs the game virtually no problem in 4k except for a built in blur which breaks some colors if removed what they mainly did was rebuild the game in unity upgrade the resolution from 512x448 remove the blur add voice acting and add a widescreen hack without fixing any of the 512x448 effects music went from soundfont to streamed the music also ended up as low quality a mod can fix that but they can't as for increased textures they might look good now however injecting textures 4x the original size is starting to become a thing in pcsx2 the remaster also uses the original meshes Atlus also tends to just give these port jobs to basically unknown companies to make it obscure so that it looks like they were responsible they did that with persona 4 golden pc the pc version of catherine and the switch version of catherine full body

[@setherly9137]

It sucks that it's in the state it is. I'm a huge fan of the Persona games and I've been wanting to get into MegaTen for a while now. When I saw this announced I thought it'd be the perfect time to jump in but after hearing everything about it and the price? Nahh. Either I'll wait for a sale or I'll just play the PS2 version since I'm already a few hours in from a while ago. lol

[@Kelphelp]

Yea entry is difficult and doesn't really help alot. I get it; and get why alot couldn't be fixed but it's really disappointing

[@matthewnesbitt6416]

The "Lucifer" content isn't paid DLC. The "Chronicles" free DLC, which includes Raidou, also includes all of the extra gameplay elements, simply swapping out Dante for Raidou (and it's only free DLC at all due to some issues that keep it from being released in Korea).

[@Kelphelp]

I really don't know what you mean since it says in DLc store that it swaps Dante for Raidou default and you have to pay for Dante. It's legit right there.

[@ofilosofoouumfumante5655]

@@Kelphelp he says that the Lucifer and the kalpas are part of the chronicles dlc too

[@RyoHazu]

@@Kelphelp i know it's been over a year but basically you get the bonus maniax content the difference being you get to fight either Raidou or Dante

[@matteste]

I just want to add that those quality of life features were not in the remaster originally. They only added them in a patch when fans started to complain. Oh, and can't forget how it ran like ass on release with the framerate dipping into the single digits not being uncommon. Not to mention all the animation bugs and stuff that was just plain unfinished. The version that made it to the west is in fact a heavily patched version.

[@Kelphelp]

Then if that's the case it's still pretty undercooked because it kind of terrible. That's a shame ngl.

[@matteste]

@@Kelphelp Honestly, a lot of stuff from Atlus have been feeling like its been cutting corners as of late.

[@Kelphelp]

@matteste agreed, SMT V has been disappointing, P3P Remaster feels pretty lack luster. It kind of sucks to see it like this ngl

[@matteste]

@@Kelphelp Similar story with Soul Hackers 2 which felt very cheap and even the recent Persona 3 Reload seems to feel like it has taken some shortcuts.

[@Kelphelp]

With Persona 3 Relead it is possible but we can't say until we get it in person. I'll hold my opinion until it's played and released

[@Enzed_]

If anyone wants to experience nocturne with Raidou instead of Dante on the PS2 there's a translation patch for the Japanese maniax chronicle edition so you can play it in English.

[@Kelphelp]

If you are gonna go that route why not play base Nocturne HD since Raidou is included by default?

[@Enzed_]

@@Kelphelp well, mostly cuz the saves from regular nocturne on ps2 is compatible with the chronicle edition translation patch. If I ever replay an SMT game I'd like it to be from new game +.

[@Kelphelp]

True but with that you do lose wide-screen support and console availability. It may or may not work for some individuals so it does depend

[@sanjithechef]

A bit off topic but what microphone are you using here?

[@Kelphelp]

Using Audio Technica AT2035!

[@sanjithechef]

Thank you! And appreciate the video, makes getting the original for ps2 an easier decision :)

[@kitsunefencertail4656]

I've just been using the ps2 emulator for this game only because atlus doesn't really deserve the $50 for a lazy port if they do fix it maybe I'll get it either on switch or steam other then that I'll stick with the ps2 emulator (also still have the original ps2 disc but not gonna play it on there because its a old game and probably shouldn't be mess with these days)

[@Kelphelp]

If it gives you consolation there are plenty of ways to still play original hardware without using the disc or other methods to play. And great ways to get great picture and audio too!

[@pooriahamidi571]

These are not new models really... They may have capped it at 30 because some of the codes were depened on frames instead of time passing, maybe this or maybe they were stupid, but they sure were lazy, they didn't put any effort in to this game, the lighting is also very messed up, I just got the ps4 version and I'm pissed, I actually remember emulating the ps2 version and it looked way better upscaled

[@Kelphelp]

I can agree with these sentiments. Atlus did kinda the bare minimum on this and while I would have liked higher FPS, you are right that this might be an FPS sensitive game where anything above 30 will destroy the fidelity of the models and animations.

[@pooriahamidi571]

@@Kelphelp I have a little bit game development experience, and I found out about the frame things the hardway. I put the trigger on the codes based on frames instead of time so instead of for example a calculation happen after 40 seconds it happend in 40 frames، then when I built the game on my both phones (one less powerful) the one with lower frames completely got broken because it had lower fps and the calculations happened in different times. That's why I think because it was a console game at the time and frame rate was fixed they didn't thought that one day they may remaster it. This was also the case with base dark souls on pc, if you go beyond 30 fps the game gets broken, but they fixed it on the remaster and made it 60, that's why I would say they got lazy because it would be possible

[@Kelphelp]

That makes sense if that's the case and I had s feeling that's how some games operate. The same case with some Win9x titles which are CPU sensitive, it either raises the framerate but improperly plays the game at unintended FPS, or can even break some games. Currently working on RE1 Win95 version and same is true here.

[@pooriahamidi571]

@@Kelphelp I guess that's the case as well you're right

[@ostail]

I'm late but the remaster also added voice acting, the translation was redone to be more accurate to the original and the lucifer thing and music dlcs weren't in any other version of the game and u don't have to really buy that to have the complete experience, the lucifer thing is a grinding dlc and u don't really need to grind in this game

[@Kelphelp]

No and you are right on the DLC it's not necessary. But considering it was in thr Ultimax versions and to see it absent is pretty baffling. I can understand Dante due to licensing fees but the other DLC doesn't have any excuse.

[@ostail]

@@Kelphelp the other dlcs weren't in maniax or chronicle, I think u are confused about the content of the lucifer dlc

[@Kelphelp]

So then this is brand new content or then what is this if that's the case?

[@ostail]

@@Kelphelp it's basically a modification of the hospital to make grind easier, it didn't exist before, atlus started to do grinding dlc zones on 3ds

[@petergriscom3431]

I hate how they claim it's a more accurate translation, when they also "spiced up" the dialogue to fit the new voice acting. So what is it more accurate to? Is it just uniform to the new Nocturne HD version of the dialogue? They made changes that altered the context of certain characters and their motivations. There's also meme dialogue they added in a few places that really takes you out of it.

[@Ifrit007]

Very good video as always, and to answer your main question, I personally feel that Atlus should have actually waited to do this port and should’ve worked on it after SMTV. That’s just me though.

[@Kelphelp]

I can for sure see that. I do see them possibly being better to release it later however I feel it would get overshadowed by V so it does make sense to release it early it is a shame though

[@Ifrit007]

@@Kelphelp I definitely see that being the case, especially with all of the money they’ll most likely make with V. And while it might get overshadowed, I feel that spacing out both releases appropriately would’ve been an easy way to avoid that potential situation. And it genuinely is a shame, hey, better than Ninja Gaiden at the very least. I honestly I feel that I’ll just end up getting SMTIII (If I ever do, lol) on PS2 Via HDD Mod or PS2 Emulation, I hear that’s actually a better PC Experience. And good job on the video, one of the few MegaTen videos I genuinely enjoyed in a while. Also, I have a question regarding your discord if you don’t mind.

[@Kelphelp]

Appreciate the kind words Ifrit. What ya got on discord man?

[@Ifrit007]

@@Kelphelp Of course, and ayyyy, someone translated my name, nice. But I asked this on Twitter via DMs, but did you happen to delete it? For some reason it was gone from the group of servers I’m in and when I tried it rejoin, it gives me an error for some reason.

[@ofilosofoouumfumante5655]

@@Kelphelp smt 3 would overshadow v, it is the most famous entry in the mainline series

[@liberdelta]

Is the 16:9 ratio cropped from 4:3?

[@Kelphelp]

Not for cutscenes, and gameplay looks to have the same FOV as the original with no cropping.

[@InvincibleHiro]

PC IMO is the best but let’s be real most ports in PC are so I think it would have been a no brainer. The portability can’t be beat

[@Kelphelp]

It's true 9/10 times it's better on PC but the only up I see the PC having is the uncompressed audio mods but that's about it. It is a shame though I really wish more could be done on this port.

[@DrayLoco]

Nice video, but 6:25 is just not true. The BGM pack is new content, the Mercy and Expectation pack is new content, and the Maniax pack is literally just Dante you get the dungeons etc, from the free Chronicles pack. So, yea you don't need to buy the DLC to get what was in the original other than Dante from Maniax. I still think you have many good points in this video

[@Kelphelp]

Ah gotcha, I haven't played the DLCs to that degree but damn it's still disappointing to pay more for a full experience. Easily could have been on cart.

[@DrayLoco]

@@Kelphelp You're not wrong and the DLC's are so overpriced. Concise and useful video tho man keep going up!

[@Kelphelp]

Very kind of you man thanks so much for watching!! Very glad you been enjoyin it.

[@Vitor20XX]

The game not being in 60fps, 4:3 FMVs and the terrible compressed audio, Atlus is fvckin lazy and the price svcksss. At least in PC i can use mods to fix that, God bless the modders.

[@moister3727]

Was about to buy it with the Digital Deluxe Edition, i'm quite confused with all the extra content. It is quite cheap compared to buy the DLC separated. I'm not sure if to buy just the original game or the Digital Deluxe Edition. The extras aren't worth in my opinion.

[@Kelphelp]

Get the original if that's the case. The DLc imho isn't worth it for such little content. The OG Smt music is a nice novelty though

[@moister3727]

@@Kelphelp Yeah. I might do that, thanks.

[@RyoHazu]

@@moister3727 did you ever get the remaster

[@moister3727]

@@RyoHazu Bought the Deluxe Edition in summer sale. Just because I wanted the Dante DLC.

[@RyoHazu]

@@moister3727 i personally am a big dmc fan but i somehow ended up playing with raidou first time god knows why but how was the game for ya, Mr Payne

[@beamslinger]

I want all smt games ported on switch!

[@Kelphelp]

Same!!!! Imagine if SMTIV was on switch. Ughhhhh

[@nifftbatuff676]

Buy a steam deck and play the originals.

[@Kelphelp]

We don't even have the Ateam Deck on hand. That's like a completely different topic

[@alastoralex4828]

I feel that you focused too much on the price argument, when honestly that may be relevant to the current public, in a few years (or maybe months) that will no longer be a problem for the offers or discounts. personally I feel that at the end of the video it gives me the impression that indeed the only thing I really lose when buying the HD version is money more than anything relevant to the game. while it is indeed disappointing that they did not go the extra mile for the port ... the original version has more problems. also I question a lot your decision for not taking into account the PC version or comparing it with the PCSX2 emulator.

[@Kelphelp]

On some things like price you may have a point however in this point in time it's not worth the asking price. It is worth going into because at base you aren't getting ALL the content unless you pay for and some individuals don't like paying for DLC myself included. As for emulation, I didn't wanna delve into since I wanted to focus on the current Remaster and on the PS2, emulation usually is a territory of its own. As for PC, at the moment I just can't purchase it due to.it costing quite a bit. My budget for the channel entails for the switch but not the PC. That's what I can get at the moment.

[@TheVoidofNothing11]

I'm glad he touched on price because I have it on PS2 which I have hooked up component cables. Trying to decide play it, or buy Switch HD. I barely played it.

[@xman17]

Did you play the ps2 version on an actual ps2 or did you play it on a ps3?

[@Kelphelp]

Yes this is on Ps2 hardware. The video should say what cables and scalers I'm using.

[@xman17]

@@Kelphelp I see. Thanks

[@Kelphelp]

No prob

[@Daster14152]

but there isnt a say to transfer your ps2 save data over unless you use a save editor i first played this on a ps2 eumlator.

[@Kelphelp]

Definitely not. It's in a different engine and save architecture so you can't do so unfortunately.

[@Daster14152]

@Kelphelp well is there someone that can program a method to convert a ps2 save to a HD remaster one cause its definitely possible

[@validation7503]

The game music was not lost or anything its it’s literally the opposite they released the whole nocturne “album” on spotify since quite sometime and the uncompressed music has been exitsing since ancient time on youtube they have no reason to leave compressed like that, theres also mods exist that uncompress the audio and i do have it on my modded switch

[@Kelphelp]

Yea it's a pretty abysmal experience nothing has been changed to rectify that, there really isn't an excuse to still have the OG quality tracks

[@warragnarok]

good thing mods exist , at this point of time theres mods to fix some of your points

[@Kelphelp]

And that's what I'm very glad about. It's just unfortunate you have to go through mods to make them happen. Switch wise it requires a modded Switch. PC wise, well the matter is much simpler

[@RegalPixelKing]

If they wanted to charge 50 dollars, or 70 dollars counting the DLC for this game, then fine, they should have done a full remake from the ground up. This port is not worth 50 dollars. If they could not find the source files then they should have went to extra mile and rerecorded the files from scratch, they should have made all the FMVs real time and rerecorded them with the new/updated assets, they should have redesigned how the game functions so that it can hit 60fps. If they did all that then maybe a 40 dollar price tag with all the DLC included would be reasonable. But for 50 dollars without the DLC is a complete joke. This is pure greed and stupidity, and if this game sells poorly because of its stupid price tag we all know that Atlus will take away the wrong message from the poor sales and just not bother with future remasters.

[@Kelphelp]

Re-recording and getting new assets costs money and that may or may not be in their budget when releasing that. Keep in mind their time and money is focusing on V so that could be a big reason. I am really disappointed but given how small they are and what they work with I for sure get it.

[@RegalPixelKing]

@@Kelphelp I understand what you are saying, but if they needed to release this project as-is due to time and money constraints, then they should have released it for 20-30 dollars with all the DLC included. 50-75 dollars for what we got is not okay.

[@Kelphelp]

That is for sure a good argument and I agree with that. Tops for what we get is 20 or 30. But 49.99 + DLc is preeetttyyyyyy abysmal. Im personally okay since I will go through my first nocturne run but for others who have played its pretty ass

[@mattwo7]

8:47 That is a Don't Starve Together mod...

[@Kelphelp]

What do you mean it legit says Music Mod

[@mattwo7]

@@Kelphelp Yes, for Don't Starve Together... Look right above the mod name, on the left.

[@Kelphelp]

Oops :3

[@Spezifischable]

If something’s done lazy or in a bad way it’s not called „It is what it is“.

[@Kelphelp]

Then what can you do about it? Both of us can do nothing. Legit we can't control the result of someone's work. So if it is lazy and we can't change it, "it is what it is"

[@beowolf9480]

no, only Maniax is paid DLC in terms of the original, mercy and expectations is grinding while the music is just background music and battle music for the overworld map, HOWEVER, in no release of the game outside of China, Korea, Japan (PS2 only), or the Steam release, can you actually get everything as the original release didn't have a guest character, the Amala labyrinth, TDE, or the fiends, instead Steam has Raidou as free DLC, but none of the stuff in Nocturne HD (barring Dante, but the PS2 release did get a version of the game with Raidou instead of Dante, so it's fine) is excluded from the original game

[@Kelphelp]

Preciate the updated deets

[@beowolf9480]

@@Kelphelp yeah no problem

[@mamas.8259]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@SylveonTrapito]

As I see, despite the price, this is the best version of the game. It´s the same, same flaws but with nicer graphics and you can choose the skills to inherit.

[@Kelphelp]

Honestly the inheritance skills is s huge deal and I can't play without that.

[@SylveonTrapito]

@@Kelphelp yeah. It has no sense keep fusioning until the rnd wants to give you the skill you want.

[@GalaxyStandard77]

Yeah and you dont have to push the CRT out of the closet to play a PS2 game at its native resolution!

[@Lukja08]

Game is worth it with the 60 fps mod.

[@Kelphelp]

Not available on Switch unfortunately but PC right?

[@Lukja08]

@@KelphelpYep, PC only. It has a bunch of other QoL mods as well.

[@Edooo20]

Lazy remaster, and outrageous price tbh. Wish they would do something for it as they did for persona 3 with reloaded

[@Kelphelp]

That would have been nice but that's a 100% overhaul. At that point I don't think Atlus would be willing unfortunetly.

[@Edooo20]

@@Kelphelp yeah, i agree, it's probably a bit too dated, not enough that would appeal to broader audience in 2024. Too bad they didnt put more effort in the remastered version. 30fps, shitty quality audio... Waiting for 10-15$ discount and I might get it

[@Kelphelp]

@Edooo20 it's for that price these days so shouldn't be hard to find for that price.

[@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716]

Just pirate it on pc.

[@Kelphelp]

That's all you then man

[@RyoHazu]

There's denuvo so no pirating

[@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716]

@@RyoHazu lol you think denuvo ever stopped piracy

[@RyoHazu]

@@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716 more like uh it's been a pain in the ass to pirate for me so i had to borrow the game on steam from a friend. (Forgive me but the game is more than my monthly pay in my region coz of the absurd pricing)

[@impachoblue1301]

having it on other consoles, especially a portable, was more than enough. This game was left for dead for the longest time and they easily could've left it that way, or ported it in a much shitter way. lots of pretentious ppl ig

[@Kelphelp]

You can still be critical and analyze it and still enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that. If anything I think it's a good thing to do

[@akhandtripathipyz9888]

And all a new side by side took was just a month

[@Kelphelp]

Probably because they ACTUALLY take a month and take ALOT of time to record, script, edit, & look for the appropriate footage. This is a one man job man, I hope you realize that.

[@akhandtripathipyz9888]

@@Kelphelp ok

[@InvincibleHiro]

Ignore this idiot, I think this video was great and very impressive !