Why PC VR Is Not Dead.....Yet

/ virtualinsider
0:00 - Intro
0:15 - PC VR Games
2:50 - Quest vs PC VR sales
8:35 - PC VR is good for marketing
10:00 - Staggered launch vs all in one
If you want to playtest Bootstrap Island at 2:27 join the dicord server - discord.gg/gMT5zyUDmz
You can also wishlist the game on steam here - store.steampowered.com/app/19...

[@ArgonautArcade]

I firmly believe VR gaming could be comfortably sustained on VR ports of older games alone. Flat screen to VR mods have been amazing, and those are from the community.

[@ctravis91]

There are about 100 games I would pay $30 for some kind of VR DLC/upgrade. It's all I can think about wile playing flat games. Even for stuff that's not in first person. BG3 would be amazing for this

[@Skrenja]

I just don't understand why developers refuse to do rudimentary VR ports of their games. Literally all they need to add (for a first person game) is decoupled aiming from the camera. They don't even need to add handtracking or anything else. I am totally happy playing with a gamepad and I actually prefer it for longer games.

[@DougGNexus]

Prey VR is amazing!

[@abedkeadan4392]

Yeah, I got a quest 2 for 300$ (first release my oculus and not meta) and I used mainly via PC VR. You won't regret it.

[@abedkeadan4392]

By"

[@AlexChangYuan]

Capcom, please bring more RE VR ports to PC. Not only will it generate more sales, but it will also grow the VR markets for the long run, especially since it's super easy for the RE engine.

[@madiimad]

Not Capcom, but modders. Capcom don't care about VR 😊

[@Skrenja]

Praydog already has awesome VR mods for nearly every RE game.

[@Eskoxo]

pretty sure sony pays them not to release it on pcvr so people have to buy psvr2.

[@GreyMatterShades]

@@Eskoxo Sony pays for the VR mode to happen in the first place, otherwise it wouldn't happen at all. When it came to RE7, Sony got 1 year of exclusivity for paying for the game and most of its DLC to get ported to VR. Capcom didn't bother porting it to PC VR after the exclusivity period because nobody paid them to do it. Considering RE8 VR and RE4 Remake VR are free add-ons, it's clear Sony is paying for them again. Hopefully Capcom will bring them to PC once the exclusivity period is over.

[@Eskoxo]

@@GreyMatterShades It is what it is tell that to all the people that complain new WRC game wont get psvr2 support but will get it on pc. I Personally have all platforms but id prefer to just stick to pc as it looks the best.

[@djp1234]

PCVR is the only reason I’m buying the Quest 3.

[@Skrenja]

That's kind of an iffy reason to buy a Quest. I think it would be wiser to hold off until the next batch of PCVR headsets come out.

[@djp1234]

@@Skrenja it will be my main PCVR headset until the Deckard comes out. I just really want to try those pancake lenses.

[@mostwanted2000]

I also use Quest 3 to get into VR after 20 years of flat screen gaming. This is a cheap way and the best money for value, and I can discover if I like it or not, I have motion sickess or not, without investing 990 on the Aero + 620 on Lighthouse stuff. Also my 3080Ti will handle better this small resolution of Quest 3.

[@mostwanted2000]

And what a good time to get into VR without cables. 🎉

[@JubbLaRacing]

​@@djp1234Wireless VR is garbage.

[@fuglong]

I'm making a PCVR game rn. I want to try to get nanite and lumen running with raytracing. I think with new fsr and dlss 3 it can work finally. Currently going to be a horror game where you explore a cave trying to find your lost sibling. Trying to focus on realistic graphics and unique controls for movement.

[@The_KingDoge]

I'll be keeping an eye out for this one

[@Anon_2_1]

Nanite and Lumen do not work yet even on UE 5.3.1. There is no performance gains from using nanite on VR yet and lumen mostly only renders for 1 eye. Wait a year for them to make it better.

[@fuglong]

@@Anon_2_1 yeah they do I have ran tests already. Performance may not increase haven't tested that, but it definitely works. I may not need nanite for real, but lumen 100%. And I can get all the performance I may need from fsr and dlss

[@The_KingDoge]

If pcvr ever "dies" and quest is still the lone large standalone platform that's it for vr imo. A full meta monopoly would be hell. I hope we get some competition to take on meta in the standalone market.

[@The_KingDoge]

My issue isn't with the hardware, its the fear of what meta would do with a true monopoly @@rangerkayla8824

[@t00nz]

Ive watched virtual insider, since i got my headset roughly in 2020-2021. Its crazy how he can pump out crazy quality content for VR (a pretty small community) and only have 30k subs. Virtual, please keep up the great videos! Each one I watch gets me hyped for vr again like no other vr youtuber can do.

[@manolisp9368]

I have watched several of your videos since many months ago... this was the one that got me to click the subscribe button and I believe this says something...I hope many developers and game companies (both indie and AAA) see this and consider the great points you made. Keep up the good work!

[@e2rqey]

I wish Meta would have added/enabled DisplayPort via USB-C on the Quest 3. It's already supported by the SOC so they could literally enable it with like zero extra cost to the device. They only reason I can see them not doing it is so that they can hamstring the device for PCVR and try to push people to use it standalone. But seriously, VR is still far too immature as an industry for them to be already doing stuff likd this.

[@aidanrust1870]

it's absolutely not at zero cost. displayport over usb-c requires more power, higher speed data transmission, and other things that would impact the weight/size of the overall device. Just because the SoC has support for it, doesn't mean its even doable on the device.

[@e2rqey]

@@aidanrust1870 no it wouldn't. And the power difference is negligible.

[@FanTaz1986]

where in god you seen xr2gen2 can get DP signal ? because i never seen this

[@Frezzyy]

not an xr2gen2 but pico neo 3 link is a good example of standalone with dp port @@FanTaz1986

[@aidanrust1870]

you have no idea what you're talking about. screens take power to run. Screens at higher frequencies require more power. google perhaps? @@e2rqey

[@SjaakSchulteis]

Please, never stop releasing for PC. I only play games in PCVR mode. So much easier: modding, cheats, storage, performance, graphics are advantages on PC that you hardly have on a stand alone platform. I do prefer fitness games on my Quest or Pico4, but any length of game that requires a lot of storage is best for PC. Besides: I get to choose which headset I want to use. Mostly I play with my Pico4, but soon when the Quest3 is available I'ld like to buy one and play games (in PCVR) with that headset.... until the Pico5 comes to the market and my Quest3 will be good enough for anything but PCVR... At least I have a choice in headsets for PCVR. I would never have bought the Pico4, if not for Virtual Desktop to use it as a PCVR headset.

[@mornova9510]

I do think that PCVR is barely hanging on but it surely isn’t dead. It really does feel like that it’s mainly the mods that is keeping PCVR alive. I do think that they should focus on getting their games released on all platforms as close as possible (without going down the Onward route). Or if anything, really work to try to make each platform a little unique from one another (I.e. PSVR2 with Eye Tracking and PCVR with the highest graphical resolution).

[@djlotusx]

I think he meant from a marketing standpoint that is something you can say is a benefit of buying it on a specific platform, maybe convincing some to buy it on their PS and Their PC for different reasons, or maybe just one for that specific benefit, but they get the sale. And yes, it seems PC VR is dying into a niche community, I feel like with the new materials coming out and battling of the Next Gen Headsets, there is a strong wave coming. They definitely have to keep supporting it, though, in a more wide-spread long-term fashion if they want it to really become mainstream because of the equipment you need to run it; that's the main drawback.

[@ChristopherCricketWallace]

Let's also not forget the wisdom of NOt being dependant on a single Platform. If Meta pulled a Unity, your studio will not be dead because you aren't 100% burned.

[@SargonDragon]

I think the underlying mistake is that PCVR and mobile VR aren't considered two different markets. In flat gaming, nobody expects the same game on PC/console to be on a smartphone. Yet when it comes to VR they do. These two markets have been forced together. They're treated like they're all the same type of customer. PCVR is more expensive and more capable. Imagine recognizing that this is a different kind of customer who typically has more money and dedication. I would happily pay significantly more money for PCVR quality titles to run on my $2500 VR gear. Why don't developers want my money?

[@aregulargenericname8794]

Not really, maybe a few percentage of people but no, most don't expect pcvr quality on a quest

[@Enderking394]

I will never stop using pcvr, it has infinity better quality games with better graphics and physics. I use a quest to with virtual desktop to wirelessly stream pcvr. I have great internet so I have an amazing pcvr experience.

[@AndrewAndKeven]

As a PCVR fanboy, I hope it never dies

[@claybomb1064]

PC vr never die!

[@Rykgo]

This is just the beginning of the VR

[@crookeddoghomebrew9144]

If Sony released remastered ps3 and ps4 games with VR they could start to build an extensive PC catalogue. Imagine that woyld be beneficial to VR community.

[@4879daniel]

Why would they do that, far more profit in psvr2 with the hardware sales

[@crookeddoghomebrew9144]

@@4879daniel think how xbox had games pass but no vr support. Sony could do both cement a pc subscription service with VR support.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

That's not including all the great games that already exist for PCVR only like Dolfin VR(Gamecude/wii emulation), Minecraft VR, Warthunder, DCS, asseto corsa and Microsoft flight sim 2020.

[@GreyMatterShades]

You make some great points here, especially about the simultaneous launches. Another thing people seem to forget about the Quest 2 is that the install base is far higher than the active user numbers, which affects the size of its market. This will be true to some degree for any VR headset, but it seems like a bigger factor with Quest 2. Meta's own numbers show only 6 million out of the 20-ish million Quest 2 users actively use their headsets on a regular basis. Also (though this is somewhat anecdotal), there's a fair number of active users who are only playing free to play games (like Gorilla Tag or Pop 1) or some evergreen titles like Beat Saber and fitness games. It's still the biggest and most profitable platform, but there isn't nearly as big of a gulf between the active userbases of Quest 2 and PC VR as the install base would have you believe.

[@toututu2993]

I see too many people play Quest 2 daily including me. So you had no idea how people love their Quest 2, I play games on it more than any flatscreen games despite the battery charging thingy

[@x32i77]

Can't wait for the new Somnium vr1 hmd 😍

[@benpielstick]

The question is not whether you should launch cross platform (if possible you always should). The question is if it is worth making a game for PC that won't also run on Quest.

[@godril90]

This is the question I ask myself as developer. The answer is develop for quest performances and then improve the graphic aspect for the pcvr version

[@_Arthur-]

​@godril90 And now with the Quest 3, you can focus on Quest 2 and make a prettier version for both Quest 3 and pc, so the potential market for the upgraded version gets even bigger.

[@jamesleegte5753]

More studios like capcom need to port their top games to vr or employ the flat to vr modders to port existing games officially to vr. Bioshock in vr anybody?

[@GreyMatterShades]

I totally agree, but the reality is that even Capcom wouldn't do it if Sony wasn't paying them. The time/effort/money required to port a game to VR varies based on a lot of factors, but for most big studios that threshold is still too high to justify considering the install base of VR in general (as well as the expectations of many within the community to have VR modes added for free). For the time being, I think we'll only see these VR ports from big studios when there's a platform holder paying the bills. I really hope that changes in the near future though.

[@jamesleegte5753]

@@GreyMatterShades you got to spend money to make money! I’m really disappointed in Sony, I truly believed they were all in on vr and would encourage ( write some big cheques ) to big studios to port their system seller games to psvr 2. There’s thousands of pcvr players and quest platform players like me who aren’t in the ps5 psvr2 eco system because we are waiting for some system seller vr ports. Honestly if Bioshock came to vr, I would instantly purchase a ps5 and psvr 2. All they need to do is port a small handful of headliner classic games and the momentum would swing in theirs and our favour. The games are all ready made, if flat to vr modders can do it in their spare time, I’m positive a big studio can do it too! I can’t see how it wouldn’t be profitable?

[@SuperPaiku]

Alot of the games you mentioned are also cross buy. most people use quest2 for pcvr, so I guess pcvr sales would be higher for those games without cross buy and lower for quest sales.

[@9ALiTY]

The mods for flat games are holing up PC VR to be something special still

[@SquirrelHybrid]

I think VR headsets could become secondary to glasses-free 3D displays (tablets & monitors) in a few years, if they can get good software support and lower their prices.

[@azurewrath6625]

Hey Virtual Insider, PS5 recently enabled a 5 star review rating system a few days ago. There's already quite a few number of ratings that can add to the numbers for Quest and PCVR. FYI

[@frankphpdevelopment4003]

Alyx is fffffing amazing, even tho i've never played the series before, it's beautiful

[@kindpanda1075]

This is also before any truly new, great, and affordable PCVR headset (that isn't the Quest in addition to PCVR). Not to mention I try where ever possible to buy games that support crossbuy. That can still count for sales as Quest. After the fall is a great example. I wanted the PCVR version, saw it was crossbuy and happily bought it on the quest store to play it PCVR. I think they should also make flat and VR together where possible for PC.

[@dogadarko3783]

cable is only problem for my guests :) and its good for taming them not to hittinh the walls :)) i pull them back if they close to tv or a wall :))))

[@davidvincent380]

Even is they are not many, there will be always PCVR core users for racing/flying/space simulations...

[@gorga8618]

@Virtual Insider do the review numbers also include reviews on Rift and Steam VR?

[@virtualinsider]

Yes, thats rift and steam

[@Verociity]

If they use PCVR footage to promote the standalone versions it could be misleading and disappointing for Quest gamers, I was horrified when I saw the Quest versions of Onward and Saints&Sinners, they look dreadful.

[@onikaze8445]

user reviews do not always equal number of sales. number of sales are also not necessarily indicative of "worth", I have seen a dev lament, "VR on Steam: 90% of the support, 10% of the revenue." "as a developer" they need to think of how much extra work is a thing worth vs how much headache/return there is.

[@4879daniel]

Even if it’s not super accurate, we have steamcharts to get some idea of player ase. I have seen VR games with only 1 player on a certain date and I know it was me.

[@AKCobra1120]

If UEVR lives up to the hype it should be a big boost for PCVR gaming.

[@MethosOhio]

Free marketing from content creators is enough reason to have a PC version. Almost no one streams Quest-only games on twitch because they can't see chat. You need to PCVR to be able to live stream well.

[@socks2441]

6:27 i agree, but all this proves is its worth their time to port a quest game to pc. it doesnt change the fact its still a quest game. what pcvr users are worried about is the lack of actual pcvr games on pc, high end games designed to utilize the performance a pc can offer. i know of one upcoming game that is doing pc first, quest 2 second. its not coming out on quest 1, and it doesnt have crossplay. it is called GERONIMO. (i write that in caps because thats how they have it..) i am super happy to hear about these devs and their passion project. we are sorely missing a pcvr replacement to onward v1.7, and this game aims to somewhat fill those boots.

[@Stealth-Joh-3-16]

I have to say, the Portal 2 mod is really fun. It is still in development, there is no snap-turn or teleport (which I don't need), also a setting of the portal in chamber 18 does not work (at the light bridge) , should be fixed in a future patch, but the game or the mod is already so good, you could easily charge 50 euros for it when it's finished. I think this is one of the best games you can play in VR 👍.

[@Flat2VR]

Yeah, it's really great! Just fyi, the mod has had snap turning since day one. Maybe it's a bit hidden though, you need to set it in the mod's settings.

[@Stealth-Joh-3-16]

​@@Flat2VR Thank you for the information. Mentioned it for others who might prefer Snap-Turn. And I would also like to say thank you, for the great mod and the work that went into it.

[@juu226]

Because I still have some games want to try out here.

[@MojoRisingTV]

Good video

[@davide724]

Regarding PCVR, I'm hoping that as time goes on, and the sooner the better, we will get more competant VR mods, whether they be official or not, on games not made for VR. Especially first person games. There's so many great games that exist that I suspect many people would love to experience them in VR, whether they played them before on a tv or computer monitor, or not at all.

[@arrashzafari3918]

I wonder how much OpenXR is helping multi-platform distribution in practice?

[@jsivonenVR]

Developing on UE4 (the semiofficial Oculus fork of the source) gives SO easy access to build & release Quest and PCVR version of the same game that it’s unbelievable. Ofc PCVR version should give more than just dynamic shadows, couple of post processing fx and higher resolution textures, but even that makes a lot. ✌🏻 We’re even making a PC-flat AND Android mobile version of our game, since UE gives great tools for UI swapping in the logic. It was the best choice ever to swap to UE from Unity and definitely recommend that to all VR devs: do it right now. Soon UE5 will have full VR capabilities and it’ll visually blow everything else outta the water 🌊

[@virtualinsider]

Interesting insight, thanks

[@jsivonenVR]

We’ve set up profiles that use higher resolutions and better lighting for PC than Android (aka Quest) builds. W/o any back and forth settings or platform swaps. It’s all instant. Also it’s fairly easy to identify VR, flat and touchscreen users and offer UI scheme accordingly.

[@Sian_Brimms]

Bonelab, when purchased from the oculus store came with both versions of the game. It was way better on pc. It runs choppy on quest, and it has lower resolution on the quest.

[@XXXDustimusPrime]

I've been developing a puzzle adventure game for PC VR for about 3 years now. I've been developing it exclusively for PC. (and hopefully, eventually PSVR) My game is quite ambitious and absolutely will not run on stand-alone VR without sacrificing a lot. But, given the info in this video. I'm now considering even more the option to make a "lite" version of my game for stand-alone. I already assumed stand-alone to be more accessible, but I just don't know the current state of PCVR. I do think there are too many short experiences for VR. There are also a lot of sims for VR.

[@blue5peed]

Releasing a game on PC is also great for game preservation that is why I love what Sony has been doing with their first party titles on Steam. I think the Quest 3 is going to change the game when it comes to ports as it has 2,5 times more GPU. Red matter for instance is using the same textures as the PS5 version of the game. Meta is also recommending people consider PBR shaders and deferred rendering on Quest 3. Ironic that the Quest 2 ports are going to make the Quest 3 look bad for a while until Quest 3 gets exclusive titles built for it.

[@RacerXJG]

I own 472 VR playable games on Steam and I never write game reviews. I imagine there are loads of players that buy games and don't bother to write reviews.

[@Stealth-Joh-3-16]

@RacerXJG Very good objection. And applies to me as well, I should definitely rate Kayak:VR Mirage, Half Life 2 VR mod+episodes, Lone Echo, Gunman Contracts mod....., still. Sometimes it would be good to just give a 👍, would definitely rate several people, not everyone wants to write a lot of text to a review.

[@GreyMatterShades]

Yeah I think different platforms have different audiences that are more or less likely to write reviews. The same also probably applies to game genres attracting different audiences. Also, the Quest 2 has a problem with developers giving out game codes in exchange for reviews, so there are a lot of 5 star reviews on games of middling or dubious quality. All of this could skew review numbers. It's far from a perfect measure, but VI admitted as much in the video. Still made for an interesting conversation.

[@4879daniel]

You should really write positive reviews if you enjoy an indie vr game. I think they need the help.

[@kroysteamvr]

Steam shares its algorithm between pancake and VR games. Even a thumbs up and a short sentence will help the dev. Your review might not get good ratings, but it will help VR on Steam.

[@michaeldicerto6265]

Can we please stop the doom and gloom about VRs future. Not only is it here to stay it will continue to evolve and grow and ultimately BE the only way to play games.

[@toututu2993]

Pcvr is great that no other techs can come close but people shouldn't be forced to pay $1,000 gpu on top of $1,000 base station tracking sets for a $2,000 headset plus accessories that cost $1,000 or more than headset itself. Like come on! Even the most expensive home racing rig is not that expensive! That is the main reason a lot of people turn the pcvr off for Quest

[@kroysteamvr]

I bought a second hand Vive with two lighthouses and controllers for £100. It's not scalable, but if people want to get in, it can be cheaper than you suggest.

[@toututu2993]

@@kroysteamvr I'm talking about the regular price. Most of the pcvr cost way more than even a high grade industrial sim steering wheel that can break your arms and Sim racing rig already have an established fanbase while PCVR does not currently and there are still group of clueless people compared vr to a junks like 3d glasses and wii and don't think is worth spending that much. VR is the most impressive technology in 21st century but company should make the entry a lot cheaper something close to what Meta does for people to actually try it

[@kroysteamvr]

@@toututu2993 High quality, deep, meaningful experiences in VR sell headsets with far less price elasticity than you suggest. Price is only one of the three Ps of marketing. Product and Promotion are the other two. It's MUCH easier to sell expensive headsets with HLA than mid-priced mobilei headsets with Asgards Wrath 2. One shifted headsets that were considered "expensive" at the time. The other is being bundled for free on a headset that is $500+

[@vroitwyrd]

PC hardware provides the greatest options for developers. I suspect a lot of small indie teams or individuals spread themselves too thin by trying to bring their product to multiple platforms. Focus. One lacking game on multiple platforms, or one competent game on a single platform that can be ported at a later date.

[@4879daniel]

But it’s hard to get a game noticed on steam for small companies

[@vroitwyrd]

@@4879daniel Launching a buggy, flawed, or low quality game doesn't help. Hard to recover from a poor release. Many simply aren't worth noticing. Honestly, some releases are more suited to the standalone market due to the platform's lower expectations and limited hardware.

[@DaDoubleDee]

Inflation making the already expensive VR gear even more expensive, few and far hardware improvements - even with the Quest 3 coming out this year, the software needed for VR is bloatware and a bitch to setup, and needing space for the VR games is also an issue most people can't solve. There are quite a few external things holding VR back not including the quality of games out there now. I doubt it'll ever be mainstream until the headset is the size of sunglasses, and the controllers are like the Index touch sensitive but even more so, AND the batteries last longer than 2 1/2 hours. Hopefully in our lifetime it'll happen

[@Sarahm2261]

So for sunglasses vr, would you want it connect to PC or be a standalone vr device?

[@1castellp]

i'm waiting for the index 2

[@ajajpk]

Rockstar games needs to bring a VR game, I think that'd help

[@wobblsobble]

i would use pcvr exclusively if it was on mac

[@maegnificant]

Really hope the Quest 3 will Support AV1 encoding though airlink and the cable

[@pantsgaming759]

sims will keep pc vr alive , lets hope quest 3 will help with making it easier to port to pc

[@silopante]

Being a PCVR player myself and a tech enthusiast, I think that whilst PC allows for far far far far better games that any other platform, developers need to do what's more economically viable, and Quest has a much larger audience (even thought it is mostly populated by "younger people"), unfortunately capitalism doesn't allow for quality products, and only favours those who sell more.

[@SjaakSchulteis]

That was the whole point of this video. Though games are selling more on the Quest, PCVR brings another 20 to 40% revenue. Not bad, would I dare to say.

[@4879daniel]

@@SjaakSchulteis He pulled those figures out of the air. The real evidence is what we can actually see developers doing.

[@BigBossXCV]

I don't understand why a VR headset that needs a PC to work cost 1000$ (index) instead a standalone one costs 300$ (quest 2). They should make cheaper PCVR headsets so more people can enjoy the experience

[@svensager1612]

yes

[@Eskoxo]

I think at least hardware wise Index is old now cant recommend and everything else steamvr tracked is like $1000+ need good option that's up to date at like $500 ( just headset cost). Honestly not sure why valve does not at least cut valve index cost from $500 to like $300 to at least be competitive. As far as games i think most of them would be on PC but Meta uses underhanded tactics to buy out all vr developers and make them exclusive to quest as there is not that much effort to make it on pc as well. Hope rumors are true that valve might make a deck console that supports vr with built in wifi hotspot to basically steal sales from meta as you can just connect it to quest2/3 and get pcvr games in a hassle free way, this would be a cheap and attractive way for all those vrchat people to get into pc.

[@colmduggan8230]

Most of the games still feel like tech demos i have boxed up my VR i dont use it anymore

[@Treebsquire]

PCVR could be huge if developers actually supported the platform. Back in it's prime, PCVR was selling very well but as time went on, and after oculus abandoned PCVR, the platform has massively declined. Bonelab and Ghosts of Tabor are great examples of when a game is actually made well and feels like a near AAA experience or has a very good concept, it will sell extremely well on the platform. PCVR players are just burnt out with the vast majority of releases being single developer early access games that may not get a final release for many years, if at all.

[@SimplexPL]

The actual PC sales are even better because some games are also available on the Oculus PC app.

[@virtualinsider]

I used the reviews from Rift store aswell but even still there is enough additional from PC sales to be worth it for developers not to mention the other marketing benefits I mention in the video

[@SimplexPL]

​@@virtualinsider Cool, I though you only counted steam, maybe I misinterpreted. However, it's also worth noting thy porting to PC is not easy and cheap and additional revenue may not offset additional costs. Various VR devs have repeatedly said that releasing for PC is hell because there are multiple headsets and controllers and testing it all is hard and time consuming - this is especially painful for indie devs. And the PCVR community can be very negative and toxic (just look at steam community comments and reviews) if you dare not support their headset model or control scheme. I'm a PCVR player myself (Index FTW) but I can understand why many devs skip PC.

[@GreyMatterShades]

@@SimplexPL That's a super important point that you're making. The PC VR community has very different standards for Mods vs. commercial releases, and they'll eviscerate anything they view as a "lazy" VR port. The wildly varied hardware setups in the PC space make QA testing a nightmare for developers as you say, and those toxic responses are probably putting off some developers. I think the best way to get around that is for developers to release their VR port in beta or early access form so that the audience isn't expecting it to be perfect. That way they can work out the bugs and issues and add support for more headsets over time. Still, it's a big commitment that might not be justified by the revenue generated.

[@Morgansquad]

Vr isn’t dead at all every multiplayer game I turn on has full lobbies on quest and pcvr

[@jakeypants_YT]

This is good news. Ghosts of Tabor devs say the PC gamers just aren't showing up for them

[@danielc04]

I prefer pcvr games because they're price adjusted and in my country steam vr games are less than half the price of the same games on quest store

[@SjaakSchulteis]

Same here... I bought Half Life Alyx a few years ago for 20$ whereas it in most other countries was 60$!

[@hendrixc6988]

I bought intel arc pcvr is dead to me but mobile vr my quest scratches the itch.

[@jackr.749]

The unfortunate part of PCVR is the PC, for newer HMDs and their higher resolutions, you need a fairly beefy PC to take advantage of that resolution and the price of decently high performing PC parts is going through the roof. Gone are the days of the CV1 and OG Vive where that hardware would run well on a 4790k with a GTX-980. Now days, just the GPU's price can be a forbidden fruit for many people. The PC market is pricing itself out of existence. This is what makes Stand Alone so appealing just like console gaming. I'm a PCVR person and dislike Stand Alone, I do have a 64gb "Oculus" Quest-2 along with a Pico 4 but I use them strictly for PCVR, Zuck isn't making any money from me.

[@TheColdest247]

I said the same thing man!

[@hse7004]

Let's be honest. "Real" VR is only amazing on PC. That's the platform. Nothing else. All that standallone Quest things are useless and sooooo endlesss downgrated. Ok,. I'm honest. Using Pico 4 with VD and cannot wait for the Pico 5 with Display Port. Only playing PCVR over VD. Comparisson "APP" in the standalone headset vs. PC-Steam version is miles away

[@jennifergala]

I doubt it's dead. Google earth still only available on PC VR

[@davidzvo]

you forgot to talk about cross buy! if i see that a game has cross buy on quest i feel more like buying it

[@4879daniel]

Even if your figures were close to right, what relevance is revenue if you don’t know the costs involved? 2 years of multiple salaries and operating costs before you can even make one penny. Only profit matters.

[@virtualinsider]

Because its additional revenue for releasing the same game on another platform

[@4879daniel]

@@virtualinsider with additional costs for the testing of the different hardware variations of PCs and multiple HMDs with different controllers plus spending more on better graphics for it. Would have been a more informative video if you had asked some devs for some stats because this all looks like guesswork to support the conclusion you want. Fact is we can see the choices devs are making on games like Espire 2 where they have walked away from supporting PC and have confirmed unlikely to support in future.

[@virtualinsider]

@@4879daniel I work directly with developers doing consultation work so have direct communication with developers and companys that work with developers to help them launch their games. The revenue figures based on PC reviews wasnt made up, this was from information shared to me through these sources but im under NDA so cant specifically mention this but the revenue figures for the PC game I mention is pretty accurate and even in the worse case scenarios developers are getting around 100k in additional revenue and in alot of cases 100's of thousands extra. It doesnt cost that much to get their game working on the additional revenue and there are things they can do to improve graphics like nicer lighting and dynamic shadows without having to make custom assetts for PC. If they a PSVR2 version they will want to do this work anyway so it makes sense to release on PC with this version because most VR studios are still small and any additional revenue can really make a difference. Espire 1 had a really bad launch on both PC and the PSVR1 which was what caused the poor sales they got and why they decided to just launch on quest for the sequel. Im not saying PC isnt extra work and they should prioritse PC VR over other platforms but if you are making a good quality VR game then I still think it is worth launching on the PC not just for the extra sales but for the other reasons I mention in the video.

[@RoseColoredIris]

It definitly not dead but it is doomed to fail. The eye strain and motion sickness really hurt the chances of regular people picking it up. It also limits the kind of games developers can make for VR, so many games look the same. Facebooks involvment in VR is the only thing keeping it afloat and the Metaverse failed miserably so they are probably banking on VR becoming a hit in the gaming industry and I just don't ever see that happening, there are too many limitations. I also doubt anyone is going to strap on a headset just just watch KZbin and browse Instagram instead of just using a conventional computer. Even if Apple and Facebook get their dream and get all that tech into the space of regular glasses, what the hell is anyone going to use them for?

[@Janix507]

i have pc vr rift

[@EienRozen]

PC VR is far from dead. It just has a MASSIVE financial barrier to entry. $5000 PC, $1000 headset, *minimum* $400 in base stations, and another $300-400 on controllers. Then if you want good full body tracking it's a minimum $450 in trackers, $100+ in straps, and going all out cost another $400 in base stations and $750 in trackers. The average person is living week to week. It's an enthusiast hobby, for people with enthusiast PCs. What would push things over the top (unpopular opinion incoming) is microtransactions. There has to be a financial incentive for big studios, and the enthusiast market has the expendable income to take full advantage, given the rewards are worth it. That would create a feedback loop similar to how mobile game companies explode out of nowhere. Just food for thought.

[@virtualinsider]

You dont need to spend any where near that much for a gaming PC and you can use a Quest to play PCVR. The PC is more expensive than the others but it isnt THAT much more expensive as you make it out to be, you also have to look at the fact there are already millions of people who already have a good gaming PC but havent bought a VR headset yet.

[@EienRozen]

@virtualinsider uh, a 4090 will run you $2200 after taxes and a power supply that's compatible so its less likely to catch fire is another $600+ so that's already 2/3 of that I quoted. Also, since you're effectively rendering 2k or higher resolution, having DDR5 ram above 6000mhz will help edge out enough frames to make the experience more enjoyable since 120hz in vr is only 60hz per eye, you need atleast 2k 60fps just to be on par with previous gen consoles, and not make you motion sick. I know what I'm talking about. I literally just bought all of it.

[@virtualinsider]

@@EienRozen You dont need a 4090 to play PC VR games.

[@EienRozen]

@virtualinsider you need more than a 4090 for higher end games to run as well in VR, as console games a decade ago on CRT TVs (30 fps). Anything on UE5 is struggling to hold 60 fps without upscaling outside of VR with a 4090. Next gen cards should be enough to do away with the need for upscaling on desktop, but it'll likely be another generation (6090/Ti) before you'll get 60 fps (30 fps per eye) without upscaling in VR on current generation high end headsets, let alone the headsets that will be available then. If you're saying if a game runs at 10-15fps per eye that it's good enough and that it runs, make sure you've got good vision insurance, because that will DEFINITELY cause eye strain over time (and likely motion sickness).

[@virtualinsider]

I have a 3080 which I bought 3 years ago for £700 and still havent found a VR game I cant run with it. How can you possibly need more than a 4090 when a 4090 is the best GPU on the market. To be honest you are just speaking nonesense at this point so I wont be interacting with you from now on.

[@mistaando9741]

Great video, vr youtubers are too wrapped up with hype and false hype instead of looking at things the way they are

[@Thetrue777luck777]

The problem with Vr is that most gamers can't afford the gear.

[@4879daniel]

I can afford it but there aren’t enough games to justify upgrading my 3yr old PC that I bought for the Quest 2 release:(

[@ramsaybolton9151]

99% of VR games look and play like a mobile game or are based around a mechanic that would just be a part of a regular game.

[@snippychicken2220]

theres just not that much money in it for AAA devs

[@bongjai]

But they can easily and cheaply convert a Flat game to VR with not much extra work as making a VR game ground up. Look at Resident evil series.

[@kissaninja9700]

who cares what the aaa makes. What they make is trash anyways, so who cares.

[@mmarco8743]

​@@bongjaiand far cry

[@graywhitecrack394]

@@bongjai It's not enough to convert the game, because the experience is very different, a VR game must be designed from the outset to be a VR game, otherwise the experience becomes strange, all these mods give simple experiences compared to natively VR titles

[@virtualinsider]

Thats not true. There are plenty of examples of good quality official VR ports that feel great to play. I even include a few examples in the video.

[@ragingpoet9785]

I love PC VR, but I'm afraid that Quest/PC sales proportion is much more skewed towards Quest than estimated in this video. Most Quest players are kids, they do not bother writing reviews :)

[@Sarahm2261]

Let hope quest kids are the future for vr success

[@Log587]

If u have a high end pc, a headset, and a load of patience then pcvr is for yoy

[@robosergTV]

Sure PCVR is alive - due to AAA PC games we can play with UEVR and Depth3D reshade plugin. What is dead are VR games - the production quality can not compare to AAA PC/console games. No wonder why everyone hails VR mods made for existing AAA PC games (RE, Skyrim, etc).

[@perceptionzzz]

Still play pcvr just like the fact that meta cross platforms play to play on the go

[@networkgeekstuff9090]

I would have a contra argument in that steam/PC people leave review much more often than quest users, for a simple convenience / interface reasons. So your metrics don't hold up for me personally.. If you want comparison find if that rule of 3 reviews per 100 sales hold up on consoles like xbox/ps4, because also there the amount of people leaving reviews tends to be lower simply due to lack of typing interface.

[@virtualinsider]

That doesnt account for the many reviews left on the quest with discount codes. I do have more information on this which confirms the percentage split between platforms and the revenue earnt based on PC reviews but unfortunetly im under NDA so cant include that information.

[@dharkbizkit]

well, hardware wise, its dead, if your not willing to buy enthusiast hardware, because thats the only markter left right now, besides standalone. your only 3 options are: buy old gen, buy standalone and use it for pcvr, while getting less visual fidality because that extra cost, went into the soc etc, or spend 1600+ bucks, on enthusiast setups

[@Playr0ne]

for me unfortuneteley this is already true _without cool AAA games this isnt work for me_

[@BPMa14n]

I agree but that quest 3 looks pretty crisp. Looking forward to a graphics and performance comparison how games look w a mid tier GPU.

[@insertnamehere4419]

I don't agree with using reviews as a metric. I've had a VR setup since the CV1's inception including Rift S, and a Quest 2 and reviewed ZERO games.

[@virtualinsider]

Majority of people dont, for every 100 reviews on a game you have around 3000-4000 sales so barely anyone who buys a game leaves a review. The fact you dont review games doesnt mean anything, you are just with the majority of other people that also dont review games.

[@insertnamehere4419]

@@virtualinsider Naw, you miss the point. For example I am primarily PCVR but I don't contribute my drop in the hat by reviewing.

[@virtualinsider]

@@insertnamehere4419 Im still not sure how that makes using reviews as a metric not relevant.

[@insertnamehere4419]

@@virtualinsider Because it's a flawed metric omitting drops in the hat that didn't submit reviews. Not sure how to make it any more clear.

[@LoraxChannel]

I love pcvr, but you are forrgetting sales aren't profits. In general, meta profit margin is much higher than steam.

[@iraklimgeladze5223]

PCVR will not die and also will not overtake Quest. PCVR will always have simulator market. PCVR should be to continues of PC.

[@4879daniel]

Is the simulator market big enough to keep headset manufacturers around though. I doubt it.

[@iraklimgeladze5223]

@@4879daniel There are enough companies who produce simulator rigs. Besides, army uses them too. We have very good PC games too. But for many of them VR is not good enough to be daily drivers and this situation only will improve. In general, it will not be as big as casual games, but there will have there own market

[@n9ne]

vr is a hard sell when most people prefer to play with a normal controller or mouse and keyboard.

[@Unknown_S0uls]

only 1 game (Vtol-VR)

[@some-UK-bloke]

most gamers aren't paying for the hardware, hence game developers aren't putting out for it, and outside the gaming world there simply isn't much application for it. So its always going to be niche, yeah its maybe not dead but on life support. Sad since I love the idea but its still niche, gimmicky and therefore unlikely to survive. Something will eventually take its place, probably augmented.

[@annt229]

Use reviews count to guess sales number must be very inaccurate. PC VR is on Steam which heavily incentivised users to leave reviews (frequent popup, reward point to buy Steam customization, etc.) + the fact that users have actual keyboard :v. Thus the ratio of review/sale on PC VR is definitely much higher than ratio on Quest.

[@4879daniel]

There are many examples of developers moving away from pcvr after releasing games on it and they have actual facts and data to make that decision. This video is just random guessing. Plus loads of steam reviews are with low play time and refunded anyway.

[@godril90]

​@@4879danielthis is interesting, do you remember some developers who's doing this? How can I find more about it?

[@4879daniel]

@@godril90 Espire 1 didn’t get a steam sequel, only quest. It is discussed on the steam community page for the game. Iron guard quest version got updates that steam version didn’t. The developer told me it is hard to get noticed on steam and they did better on quest. Same with zero caliber though they did come back and update steam after a few years.

[@virtualinsider]

I have other data to back this up I just cant show it because im under NDA but the figures used in the video regarding the split in sales between platforms and the revenue from PC sales based on reviews is pretty accurate. I also cant say I have ever had a popup asking me to review a game on steam and there is also the fact that quest reviews will have people spam reviews with discount codes.

[@hawk1079]

Quest have more "reviews" because it's a headset made for kids and that can't buy a PC

[@aregulargenericname8794]

Or maybe its hard to justify buying a 900 € pc and the quest 2 was a massive hit with consumers, or am i just insane?

[@hawk1079]

@@aregulargenericname8794 probably insane or probably blinded by all the sweet talkers meta hired to talk good about quest

[@stuart3712]

Im good, i ordered a Quest 3 and ill enjoy all the games on both, Quest 3 and PC. FYI, PSVR is far worse than Quest/Meta is when it comes to anti multiplatform games. Kinda funny you dont understand that.

[@naishoz]

3rd

[@staher841]

Pcvr is still fine but the loss of oculus pcvr games are a big L for pcvr. Oculus used to make some of the best pcvr games back when pcvr started, like lone echo and asgards wrath. Lone echo 2 is the last big pcvr game from them i think.

[@marahunt720]

🤔 Don’t META users purchase PCVR games on steam??

[@FanTaz1986]

quest users base do not leave reviews, steam ones do, it super different numbers you literally did not done your job here , you needed to look at game like "The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners" , and then look at profins and review numbers and you will see quest users in general leave about 3-4 time less reviews , and we have some other games too who did give us some numbers

[@decadent.]

Amid Evil VR did sell better on PC than quest according to the dev.

[@4879daniel]

Exactly, much more convenient to write a review on steam when you’re on your pc with a keyboard. Im not even sure how you review a quest game,

[@alidiksin5103]

with the quest 3 being equivalent to a low-mid end pc, pcvr is sure to die soon

[@decadent.]

That is untrue. Quest 3 is equal to 1/3 performance of a GTX 1060 (4.375 TLOPS) A mid range GPU today is RTX 4070 ($500). That is around 30 TFLOPS.. That would make the Quest 3 ~20 times slower. Hardly equal. off by a factor of 20.

[@alidiksin5103]

You forget to account for the fact a quest 3's job is only to play vr. It is far more optimised than if you used a 1060 on pc.@@decadent.

[@decadent.]

@@alidiksin5103 If you said. "Q3 games are most optimized for the hardware" Then yes I agree. Almost all Q3 games will use Reprojection, run at 72hz, use fixed foveated rendering have no dynamic lights or shadows / low poly models / run at low resolution etc. All of these things clearly degrade the experience so your claim that the Q3 version is EQUAL to the PC version is WRONG. Especially if you are have a high end PC + High end Headset - which is perfectly understandable because it costs FAR more.

[@alidiksin5103]

@@decadent. Most quest 2 games run at 90 or 120 fps so how will quest 3 go down. Have you even seen the quest 3 graphics comparisons? the models are high poly, shadows are crisp and dynamic aswell as quest 3 having a fairly high resolution