Why People are DISAPPOINTED with Critical Role's Campaign 3

[@chrissimcock8943]

For me, the big mistake they made when making their characters was having too many connections to previous campaigns but no motivation for their own characters. Laudna is just a creepy goth chick if you remove Delilah, orym is just a small tin soldier if you remove keyleth, imogen is nothing if you remove ruidis etc. I know Matt wanted to connect threads from previous campaigns in this one but he should have restricted his players from putting so much emphasis on their connections of backstories then their own personal motivations. Right now they all are the same amorphous gray morality of just trying to survive calamity 2.0 which is what EVERYONE else in exandria are doing. There just isn’t anything setting them apart as heroes, villains or misfits. They’re just…existing.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

I couldn't agree more. Well said.

[@garrett6217]

I'm having a hard time determining why I don't like C3 as much. The campaign just feels tedious. Continually, 2 players go off and have a chat for an hour (usually about stuff that isn't even important) while the other 4 are bored to tears. It feels like they are writing a story for a very slow moving book rather than playing a DnD game.

[@CorruptedKill97]

I think that's because they aren't winning. Like, in the first 2 campaigns they defeat a lot of threats that grow as the campaigns progress. In C1 you've got, Briarwoods, Chroma Conclave, Trickfoot Family, Keyleth's Trials, Kevdak, And eventually Vecna. All small arcs that deepen the characters and our understanding of them as people. C3 feels like Pradothos. That's it. That's what they've been doing for most all of the campaign. Even their wins don't feel like wins now.

[@jarlulfric201]

people don’t give Taliesin enough credit for single handedly fucking up the entire table’s synergy

[@dualwieldroxas358]

Which is ironic, considering Percy and Caduceus were practically the opposite, especially Caduceus. Ashton has just been....awful. he is a rebel....and that seems to be his entire character. And a really tedious kind who thinks being edgy and swearing a lot makes them cool...

[@henryohenry1504]

C1 they were heros C2 they were PEOPLE C3 they are goofballs I think it also affects the animated show, because they are making those heroes into people which is fine but where do they go for the animated Mighty Nein? . . .

[@ferrous412]

If not for Chetny and Laudna I wouldn't even bother with campaign 3.

[@Witchgirl44]

I very much love C1 but C2 will always been my favourite for the drama and dynamics, but I felt like the ending of C2 dragged, then felt rushed and I started C3 and was like instantly burned out, I didn’t even get a chance to be annoyed or just bored with the characters and story

[@CorruptedKill97]

It annoys me when people bring up C2 flaws to defend C3. I enjoy C2 way more than C3, but that does not mean that I think C2 is perfect. C2 has some of the slowest and dragiest of drag episodes of all of critical role IMO. In fact, I'm pretty sure I remember one episode in C2 towards the end that was a solid 4 hours of above the table planning. I hated it. Point being, being able to point out one flaw in the other campaigns doesn't make C3 suddenly perfect.

[@soeffner6833]

For me it was when they stopped live streaming. Prerecording changed the feel of the game play and completely destroyed the community feel of participation. We, as veiwers, are no longer along for the ride. We are reduced to consumers.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

That absolutely was another shift in the feel of the game 100%. There are several more things that I didn’t mention in the video and that’s definitely one of them. Including over 10min of ads and self promotion before the games even begin, not showcasing the most recent art submissions on stream anymore, etc etc.

[@Moninius]

It's interesting because a lot of people, myself included, couldn't watch live at the time. Simply because of not being in the same timezone. I saw no change at all in the feel of the game play maybe because I was used to watch the VOD on youtube from the start? This is also the case for people who are starting to watch now. It's simply not live streaming.

[@NOSTahlgia]

@@Moninius But they played later in the evening and drank alcohol rather than starbucks, I wouldn't be surprised if that's one reason they were looser and more fun back in the day-- other than being younger

[@sofiamarques-vu9hb]

Genuine question - I didn’t knew it was prerecorded, and tbh for me I don’t care cause I could not watch live anyway (too late for me). But once I’m sure I saw an episode that they needed something (a note?) and the audience replied where it was? Maybe I’m confused tho. But would love some help

[@WinglessValkyrie]

@@sofiamarques-vu9hb Yes that did happen during C1. You can see the clip here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZSwaYFvht-EbK8

[@zachass6]

C1 is my favorite campaign. I can go back and rewatch or listen to them and still love every episode. I can't finish campaign 2 because I felt something changed. Like they weren't playing a game with a bunch of friends but rather like it became their job. Now they probably love their job very much but what you got from C1 felt gone at a certain point in the game. When C3 started I couldn't get passed episode 30. It was obvious the show became about making a cinematic show rather than a game to play and have fun with. Which is what I miss.

[@JonAntilla]

C2 was so much better. I like C1, but C2 was soooooo good. C1 had so many magic items and was kind of too much. But it had its moments. Better than C3!

[@merlinwindrivver600]

And the fact that the argument of "these are people who are just playing their homegame, they can do whatever they want" really doesn't apply anymore when it's pretty obvious that this is their job

[@ForeverTraitor]

I mostly agree and it's refreshing to see someone actually explaining their problems with campaign 3 beyond "THEY WENT WOKE!" But I do think nostalgia does play a part in the way people remember campaign 1 and 2. It was far and away the best D&D show in quality at the time, so much so you could argue it made D&D mainstream. Nowadays there's more shows of a similar quality, I'd argue Dimension 20 has surpassed Critical Role with it's tightly edited episodes and varied settings and casts. Truth is I don't think anything Critical Role makes from now on is gonna be that massive step up from what everyone else is doing like campaign 1 was.

[@dkiracabral]

You made some good points, but my counter argument is that C3 is just too slow, and a bit boring tbh. One or two good or great moments, with 15 to 20 episodes of nothing

[@WinglessValkyrie]

I wouldn’t consider that a counter argument because I agree with you. I believe there are a lot of reasons C3 is not as strong as the others, your point & mine can both be correct 👍🏻

[@Solidude4]

Yeah it's honestly that simply for me. Stopped at episode 50 because it was just simply boring. Barely anything happening.

[@BigKlingy]

Just came to this vid today: (SPOILERS) That comment about FCG being a ticking time bomb aged hilariously poorly.

[@RighteousBeardArts]

Still very much a C1 fan for the style of story and tone. It's more a traditional heroic high fantasy story with Sam's best character of Scanlon Shorthalt, and pacing wise it had a lot more DM control over the pace and direction

[@ThePsychoticOtter]

I agree with most of your thoughts. Started in C1 and it remains my favorite by far. Felt like an actual game with some friends playing an awesome game of D&D with great role playing. Now that they’re a company and very successful (good for them btw I get it, not mad) things have changed. Pre recorded, not as intimate, feels more like a product to consume rather than a game now. Just kind of bummed out cause those Thursdays back in C1 were some of the best content I’ve ever seen

[@Lostmissionary]

Bang on the money.

[@EVSkecthCode]

also content fatigue is a real thing. people need to realize even if you love/loved something it's fine to step away from it either forever or for a short time. you have to take everything in moderation

[@melodiefaery]

I started falling out of C3, when I realized it was a giant commercial for the cartoon. (It wasn't really, but it sure as heck felt like it.)

[@mbandeira6465]

I don't think they branching out is what making the C3 sucks. I don't really . . . care that they feel like a company? It wasn't relatedness that brought me or other to watch them, otherwise other live shows would rise in popularity as well. Dimentional20 is a show, is built and written to be a show and in no way resembles how a traditional dnd campaign should be. However, they are fun as heck. Everyone in the cast makes an effort to put up a good show and to be as enterteining as possibles and they manage to do just that. What made Critical Role fun to watch was that the cast were incredible actors, who made compeling characters with their own objective and vices with Matt as GM that knew hot to make their characters shine. The world was incredibly detailed and convincing, much more detailed than most dnd tables or even some fantasy worlds through media. And most of it all: they knew how to balance the serious tone and dramatic moments with the eventual goofness and sense of humor, that makes you remember that they are just people playing dnd after all. But C3 . . ? C3 has been a mess with a bunch of characters that really have no reason to stick together ( their 'found family' excuse feels forced to me ), have no objectives of their own other than to stop the red moon thing, have their storylines very poorely explored and on the top of that are always trying to kill eachother for no reason. They almost don't make any jokes anymore jesus, it's a pain to watch. It's so bad that Travis is even trying to make Chetney die every time they long rest What I think it's happening is that a party that doesn't work out is something that can always come up even at the best tables, but Critical Role unlike most tables can't just wrap it up and start something else because . . . they are a show. And now they are stuck with playing something they (I'm now assuming things) find unfun what else they could do?

[@vahnvega1990]

I'm still enjoying Critical Role, and I feel everyone from Critical Role is still a genuine person. Like, I do not see them ever pulling shady BS unless some rando suit becomes the head.

[@ericgropuis]

I agree with some of your points but do disagree with some. I’ve been very mixed on C3 Bells Hells for some time now, I fell off of Critical Role just because watching a really long campaign was draining plus pandemic which made me just watch a bunch of other things that I didn’t start watching C3 until there were like 30ish something episodes which I did watch and enjoyed some of it but to me started to enjoy it less when Dorian left the party plus them spending too much time in the starting location. I stopped watching for years until this year where I fully caught up from Episode 33 to 98 haven’t watched the current Downfall episodes yet but will because I love Brennen. For me I do enjoy the character but what I feel kills the characters for everyone else is the fact we have had no time to really get to know the characters at all. I’ve never watched C1 outside of LoVM and trying to watch those early episodes but having a tough time just because it’s older so quality isn’t as good. Anyway I know atleast that each character got some time to be expanded on with exploring their backstories or being front and center. Percy with the Briarwoods, Scalan and his daughter, Grog vs Kevdak, meeting the twin’s father, Keyleth’s overarching arc of getting more confident and a leader. You got time to get invested in these characters because while still trying to complete an overarching story with The Chroma Conclave we got time with these characters to know them better. C2 is the first campaign I watched and I feel Mighty Nein did this the best because it was a loose and open story the party did some stuff together from the start adventuring learning little bits about them here and their but we got whole arcs involving each of their characters. Fjord with his connection to Uk’otoa traveling the seas and then becoming a Paladin of the Wildmother, Nott becoming Veth again and reuniting with her family although it didn’t make sense for her to continue adventuring beyond that, Yasha becoming free from her chains and eventually learning to heal, Jester finding love, learning about her father and becoming more connected with the Traveler, Caleb becoming a better person and not so singly focused on his goal to change the past, Beau becoming more responsible and accepting her role in the Cobalt Soul and also learning to become a better person. Cad being there to help everyone along the way and eventually being reunited with his family and completing his goal to save his home. Everyone really became well connected to one another and it caused everyone to be so well connected with the ultimate BBEG with them wanting to get Molly back from Lucien and stop him. I don’t mind throwbacks because it’s clear the players really wanted to see how the previous characters/NPCs they have interacted with are currently doing. I find that players usually like that I know my players did even when they only briefly got to see an older version of their old characters in our second campaign. Again don’t think that’s much of an issue but the fact that we haven’t had any time to flesh out these characters much. It’s been go go go since the party left the starting location and it’s been singly focused on the main plot that we don’t spend much time in certain areas which could flesh out characters more. I think it’s also the way they built these characters too, no character beside Imogen is built to care about the main plot. Imogen is directly connected by being a special Ruidusborn whose Mom is also part of the bad guys trying to kill the gods. Orym is only connected to the plot until Otohan was killed but Liam built a basic character every man who just wants to protect everyone and the deal he made with Nana Morri made him more interesting now having a deal with a hag. Chetney although being very funny is just there for the laughs, he has no connection to anything and actively encourages other PCs to give into temptation don’t get me wrong I think he’s awesome but he is a bad influence and doesn’t really have a reason to care about anything going on. Laudna is just waiting to bring back Delilah, she was fun at first but slowly as Delilah has started to take more control she isn’t as fun and just more annoying to watch and this is nothing against Marisha she just has a tendency to play characters that are controversial and people dislike I know I really hated Beau for the longest time until she got better. Ashton is Talisen’s second attempt to play a character which says fuck you at the idea of D&D as a thought experiment, he tried to do that with Molly but we all know what happened there but Ashton again doesn’t care about anything just about his new friends and that’s it, I do understand why people don’t like Ashton but I also don’t think he’s really done anything wrong and yes I’m talking about the Shard because if you tell a player “You shouldn’t do this” they are 100% going to try and do it and he just gets so trashed in character that it’s whiplash that Laudna who actively hurt another PC and tried to feed Delilah is forgiven way quicker than Ashton who just took the burden from Fearne because she didn’t want the shard in the first place. Fearne is fun but it got old quick just wanting to fuck with shit, it’s great for Ashley because she finally gets to play on a regular basis for her and be around for the whole story and be the chaotic person she is but in a group of chaotic people who are doing the same shit as her it gets old to see these antics all the time, plus even tho she is Ruidusborn and connected to the bad guys she doesn’t care and actively forgets the fact she is. FCG is fun I like them especially the way Sam gets to play a person getting really stressed and pissed, FCG wasn’t connected to the gods either until later because Sam just found it hard to reflavour everything he does as a cleric to just being a robot and was the only person in the party who even had an opinion about if they should help the gods or not, everyone else somehow after 90+ episodes doesn’t know the answer to that question. It makes it hard to believe that the party really wants to complete the goal of stopping the threat because they aren’t connected to it at all minus Imogen who then is the defacto main character. Even Tal mentioned it that everyone except Imogen just feels like they were an NPC while Imogen is the only PC. Laudna is just an undead enemy, Orym is a guard, FCG was a companion, Fearne is a random Fey you would encounter, Ashton is a henchman, Chetney is a silly old man NPC you would encounter. That’s my biggest problem with wanting to continue watching, there were many times in my binge to catch up I would stop watching mid episode to just watch something else before going back to just want to knock it out. Now for the stuff I disagree with. I don’t really mind the whole corporate thing. Of course they are going to be more corporate they are a company now not just a division under another company. While Dimension 20 and Critical Role can be compared they can’t be compared in exactly the same way. Dimension 20 is under the dropout umbrella made to be shorter campaigns not live-streamed but filmed and edited down to just get the key moments having a RP episode which is then followed by a combat episode and focuses solely on that and doesn’t need to promote anything else because most of the episodes are already behind a paywall of having Dropout to watch the full season. Critical Role has to sell other things and can’t just solely be about promoting the main show. They have sponsors to appeal to. It’s cool that they get to occasionally be able to do a themed one shot of a thing they are sponsored by like Persona, Elden Ring, Borderlands. They have to branch out they made Midst for more podcast focused people and storytelling, idk what Candela is about because I don’t really care about it but seems kinda cool, they created their own TTRPG system in Daggerheart of course they want people to try it out and support it. They have to use their shows to sell merch because beside social media that’s the main way they can get the message out of all of the stuff they are selling/promoting. It’s just business and you are always free to skip over the beginning ads and ad break the majority of the episode is still the campaign itself. The main thing I can agree on is the fact that the show is now pre-recorded and now we don’t get as many episodes as often as we used too. I get why they would want to pre-record and now livestream anymore because it’s a big time commitment and they still have their other jobs beside running the company and playing D&D so it means we don’t get people missing outside of them being really sick or having other commitments like Marisha being part of Creator Clash. That being said everything you said is totally valid because so many others have been having the same complaints about their favorite show. Things change over time and theirs no way the way they did it before would be as profitable. They are a company now having to keep people employed so they need to stretch out. Older busy voice actors with families can’t get together every week to play D&D while trying to make money, the sponsors and branching out to other things seems to be successful to them with them spending a lot of them on those things beside the campaign which is frustrating because the main focus should always be the main campaign which honestly feels like it should have ended way sooner.

[@4rthurzz]

I really think the big turning point was how they decided to wrap up Campaign 2. They ended everything in media res, which was so obviously a company decision that didn’t respect the characters’ stories or close out their arcs (especially since C2 characters are showing up now in C3 because their story wasnt finished). The reason behind it seems obvious to me: after the Kickstarter and the launch of The Legend of Vox Machina, they wanted to bring in more viewers who’d be discovering the show through Prime. Starting a new campaign would make it way easier for new folks to jump in. Instead of C2 100+ episodes, like 10 or 20 C3 episodes wouldnt look so intimidating. The best to watch Critical Role was end of C1 and begining C2.

[@timfrank7461]

I think their characters are just WEIRD in s3 S2 they were chaotic

[@seerai-42]

Tbh ive really liked the characters, but i think the really big issue is the pacing. It’s very inconsistent and doesnt give the player characters time to settle with their surroundings, and it became worse after the solstice and party split, because now the party has a magic staff that lets them teleport from point A to point B, with the Shattered Teeth being a really big example of this. We barely got time to explore it and learn about the cultures and history before they found the shard and teleported out. I dont think Matt is giving the players time to just, do their thing. When we do get big stuff that could change the story in a big way, such as Ashton absorbing both shards and ending on a cliffhanger, the next episode he just vomits it up and is penalized, because he wasn’t supposed to be the character who took the risk. Bad pacing, less of a chance for character development, reliance on past connections to previous campaigns for the character backstories, and the heavy railroading have made it harder for the players to develop their characters.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

You make some good points, thank you for watching & sharing your thoughts ^.^

[@overdrive7349]

I'm sorry but I think a portion of the problem is the characters. They just don't feel like genuine people that would be friends with each other and work together on an end of the world situation. They've done a lot of bad things in this campaign and they have suffered no consequences. They just feel like joke characters that would be better played in a one-shot. I really liked Dorian because he felt like a genuine character in the story. And Robbie actually roleplayed the character instead of doing stupid, random things every 2 minutes. They basically flanderized their characters a little too much.

[@NOSTahlgia]

Maybe it's because they pre record it earlier in the morning/day and they're filling their pipes with coffee instead of alcohol, because they just seem genuinely bored and like any excitement they have is all for show. Liam and Tal seem like they stay in character almost the entire time, which would be cool if Orym wasn't so bland and boring, and if Ashton wasn't so absolutely unlikable (with the exception of Tib's short lived character, Ashton is the worst by far, followed by Vex, Beau, and Keyleth. I really hope Tal just retires him, even Molly was kind of Ashton style annoying in the recent one shot). They seem way too self aware that they're selling a show/production now that they're all millionaires and have a TV series deal with Amazon, instead of just being loose and having fun they're prepping us for their tv shows... and so to me it almost seems like some of them are forcing personalities. It happens. I was watching Exandria Calamity and that was more fun to watch because the table was much more loose. On the other-hand I watched Candela Obscura and the table was like a theater production and still more enjoyable than any episode of C3.

[@timfrank7461]

Thank you! I am not the only one who thinks orym is bland or that they do not like Bo thought she was WAY to abrasive snd hard to like I hated her character when she whe t off on caleb for DOING THE EXACT THING SHE DID or disliking Ashton or Molly. Molly just took away from Jester, and it just felt like WAY to much with both of them together, Cad REALLY smoothed out the whole group

[@KG7Plaz]

Why is Ashton considered unlikable? I'm only 40 episodes in but he's been very accepting and protective of everyone. (I don't care about spoilers if he does something bad later)

[@WinglessValkyrie]

@KG7Plaz he becomes extremely selfish and fucks everyone over for his own personal gain. Tal himself then goes on their talk show and says how happy he is that something crazy finally happened within the group. It was a shitty thing to do in character but it’s clear to see it was done because of how boring the group dynamic is.

[@NOSTahlgia]

@@KG7Plaz He carry’s himself like a douchebag

[@laurac2556]

As someone who has worked for soulless corporations since I graduated, I give them kuddos for being able to profit off of a hobby that they love. Regardless of the conjectures that can be made about their motives or opinions on the volume of ads in C3, as a fan since C1, I say good on them for being able to continue to tell a story they enjoy to an audience that can engage silently or loudly, love proudly or not at all, and criticize intelligently or belligerently. Do I love every character in C3? No. Do I like every episode? No. But I prefer this unscripted crazy amazingness created by passionate, decent humans over scripted content pumped out by corps.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

Well said!

[@DaBogDweller]

I’ve really enjoyed the third campaign so far, the biggest issue I can point to so far is pacing, but it’s not a scripted show, so that’s to be expected

[@MannyBrum]

It's not scripted, but after campaign one it's a lot more calculated and contrived than it was. They're still roleplaying but I think the fact they're running a company now directs their actions rather than it just being a livestream of a home game like it used to be. I feel it lost a lot of the magic and relatability it had. I watched partway into campaign 2 and I watched the beginning of campaign 3 but it felt so different than it used to.

[@khriss867]

This just seems like a natural feeling that occurs when any show progresses through the seasons. Name all of the TV shows that have lasted 8 or more seasons where you think that the ending seasons were as good as the beginning seasons. Now name all those TV shows where you think the last seasons weren't as good as the beginning seasons. I will bet that there are significantly more shows that you believe were not as good in the later seasons. Why? Because it wasn't new. The appeal of a lot of shows is how new and interesting it feels at the beginning. Once you get used to it, it loses that appeal. By this point Critical Role has put out hundreds of 4-hour episodes (a lot more than the tv shows that go stale before even putting out a 100 thirty minute episodes). There is no way they can manage the expectation that everything seem new and fresh.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

I fully agree. Which is why I think they may be switching to their in house game system for C4. I think as a way to reset everything and start fresh, there is going to be some catastrophic event that restarts the world and they’re going to begin anew with Daggerheart and become completely independent from the D&D and Wizards of the Coast brand.

[@daniellefyre8840]

I agree with most of what you said but I think the company part is less "they are a company and unrelatable" and more "they are stretching themselves too far and trying to hard". After they went to pre-recorded episodes and no longer had viewer interaction it now just feels like watching a scripted TV show even if it's not "scripted

[@BohnalexPV]

I'm a new viewer (started with c3) and was very worried this would come up/happen. I love all 3 campaigns but I can see the cracks too and I'm worried about CR's future tbh. Because at least for me it still feels like the sessions themselves are genuine fun and to me they do convey the feeling of nerdy-ass voice actors playing D&D... just not everything around that.

[@DjVanillaGuerilla]

This Campaign is the first one that feels like it's a job. Campaign 1 and 3 felt like a group of friends coming in and just doing it for the love of it. This one feels... forced. Like they are not into it. I think maybe they are burnt out and need a break. But can't take one because of the hype that was behind it at the time. So they felt like they had to keep pushing.

[@EloyBushida]

Big part for me is the show is no longer live, but also not really edited much, so it feels VERY different than it did when it was live but also VERY different than more edited shows like the Dimension20 shows. I would like them to either go back to live, or go with a more edited format like D20 style. Also the characters all feel like chaos gremlins. There is no leader, no structure, and because of that they just stumble from point to point until Matt railroads them to the next chapter. Then you have a certain character who seems to intentionally disrupt the progress of the campaign and go entirely against the spirit of "yes, and" that the show has always ran on. I won't say who, but if you've watched you already know who I mean.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

I am in agreement with you. I don’t think CR will ever go to a more heavily edited style, but I think if they went back to live, it could help. Maybe not with this group but that’s speculation. However with the sheer amount of extra work the CR team has willing taken, I don’t think they will ever go back to live streams again, outside of live shows.

[@EloyBushida]

@@WinglessValkyrie Sadly I think you're correct. At this point I'm just waiting for C3 to end and hoping C4 has some characters I can really connect with like C1 and C2. Show has been such a huge part of my life for so long now I desperately want it to be something I love again!

[@Codename_Foxy]

Just a theory but I think campaign 3 is just a over all reset for the critical role universe switching from dnd to their own ttrpg system after its over simular to how DC and marvel reset their comic storylines with a crisis or Flashpoint etc I think this is a rebirth for exandria to inlore shift the mechanics of the universe to daggerheart again just a theory

[@jonathanhibberd9983]

I think it's also a shift for the group. They're trying to get us used to seeing other faces at the table. Campaign 4 might be the same core players, but I doubt it. I think it's going to be even more revolving door, with mini arcs that look like Dimension 20.

[@MrBracey100]

I've seen that coming since C2. Matt changing the name of DnD races like Luxodons to Pachydons for instance. He's been slowing divesting his campaign world from anything related to trademark DnD.

[@Codename_Foxy]

@@MrBracey100 possibly a mix of homebrew / avoiding any copyright stuff... especially after that d&d one pay wizards if your famous debacle but yeah I'm sure even as far back as campaign 1 Matt wanted his own system cause while 5e and pathfinder are great there is not one perfect system for every dm but because they made their fortune using 5e the lore is steeped in its mechanics so a shift to their system would require some things to Change likely examples (spoilers) for magic to change ( leylines being altered) gods to change ( predathos the God eater) and a rebirth of more primordial Elemental forces ( the titans reawakening via ashton as they were their before the gods) just more to the theory I suppose

[@angelwings4191]

I always find the praise for c2 strange as I felt it was meandering and plotless. Maybe the fact that it took 70+ episodes for anything meaningful to the plot to happen is why people like it? Idk, I dipped at some point in the 70s for episodes. It became particularly apparent that I wouldn't be returning to c2 when it was clear they were fully willing to commodify a character who died less than a quarter of the way through the campaign because the fandom wouldn't shut up about them.

[@alaskasu9264]

I'd like to add that I feel CR could do very well with their own homebrewed rules and such. I think part of the failings is that because they're using D&D rules they have to be careful. But once they can use their own thing they won't have to worry about offending a huge corporation. I feel like it could be more relaxed.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

That it could, but then they’ll be relying on the raw talent and brand name recognition to pull in an audience. If you look at any series or one shots they did that are not D&D 5e, it never pulls in anything near the same amount of attention that their 5e content does.

[@alaskasu9264]

@WinglessValkyrie I agree, though many of their one shots were more modern and, in my opinion, I think more prefer that medieval type feel of the main games and that's a big reason. Also, it's hard to feel connected to the characters in those one shots because they're just too short.

[@unexardiximarion1920]

That's assuming they know how to do a good system. Judging by their board games, the custom classes Matt made and some other homebrewed shenanigans, I highly doubt it.

[@sesimie]

Vox Machina all the Way. While i watched all of C2 and 18 episodes of C3...I lost interest in the characters. I even backed LoVM due to my sheer love of C1. The Dynamic between Grog and Scanlan is some of the best entertainment I've experienced on the internet. Mathew Mercer is the reason I started DM-ing. C2 characters were great but the inability of them dying with two clerics and the cast are now well versed in the Meta ( Pigeon...). The only reason i had any interest in C3 is also Werewolves and Travis. i'm also not going to spend 4 hours rooted to my screen. Bidet to the simpler times.

[@krim7]

People complained about the Matthew Mercer effect pretty early on. You can filter google search results to see people were complaining about it in 2018, which is definitely long before Crit Role felt like a "company". It also means the discussion around the "Effect" has happening long before it started to bubble up into the mainstream discussion. You complain about the side projects not appealing to you. Yeah, that's the point. Not every side project will appeal to every fan of the original product. The whole point is to branch out and hope to appeal to the current audience and a new audience, which Candella Obscura absolutely is doing.

[@evrys3221]

I actually love Campaign 3's characters and the story. It's my favorite campaign as a newer viewer. I think a lot of Critters have nostalgia glasses and are being way too critical.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

Could be, but non the less, I’m glad you’re enjoying C3 ^.^

[@Neomagam]

I don't know that Critical Role viewership is down, rather that the Twitch Viewership is down. Campaign 2 really hit peak viewership because suddenly there was nothing else competing for views time on Thursday nights. Also, the couple of months where there were no new episodes gave a lot of viewers the chance to catch-up to the latest episodes. Whereas Campaign 3 is now competing for attention more than ever AND the shift to pre-recorded episodes really reduces the priority to watch view. It is really hard to compare KZbin statistics for new versus old episodes (doubly so for spotify and podcast formats), but I suspect that a lot of the Twitch viewer loss is offset by gains on KZbin. I agree with some of your points about the characters in C3 (especially the unintended "chosen one" effect), but I have to think that The Legend of Vox Machina brought a decent amount of viewers to Critical Role, so I would think that viewership for C3 is up overall. I think the unfortunate reality is that these kind of statistics are intentionally hidden nowadays so its really impossible to get a complete and accurate picture at engagement with the show across all the platforms. EDIT: Actually, I just checked the KZbin live viewership tonight and the combined total of Twitch and YT is higher than it ever was on Twitch alone. So the numbers suggest its purely due to the platform split.

[@NOSTahlgia]

I'm just going to assume it's down by the sheer volume of viewers who claim that after X amount of episodes they just can't take it anymore and have quit watching altogether.

[@ch3nz3n]

C1 = a real DnD campaign/game C2 = professional voice actors playing characters they know will likely be in a TV show C3 = just a role playing exercise

[@kaptnawesome]

It does seem that as they got bigger and took on more of a company identity they started making decisions with the company in mind. Things like renaming stuff, singing songs less, making decisions with merchandising in mind. The thing is with their success they pretty much have to, esspecially after the OGL drama that happened with WOTC. I get why thy have to do it but it does kill aome of the vibe of the game

[@Blubbermage]

I think the issue with CR3 is Matt had a pretty obvious story in mind that got rushed by the players and side arcs with depth were outright ignored (how many times has Ashton been in the same town as them and mentioned the nobodies or hexum just for people to ignore him?) then they slipped on a banana peel at the finish line. I can't be the only one who feels like the Malleus Key episode threw the entire show off the rails. They kind of shit the bed with with how bad their rolls and plan were and the show has felt like filler ever since. I just want to harp for a second on just how ignorant them flying an airship into a tower protected by the arguably the most powerful wizard in Exandria was. It not only didn't makes sense in character but out of character it's completely idiotic and Matt gave them a pretty easy out.

[@ryanstang6556]

Definitely in the minority, but I love campaign 2 and 3 but really don’t like campaign 1 at all

[@WinglessValkyrie]

That’s fair! Not everyone has to like what others don’t and not enjoy what others do. I’m glad you’re enjoying C3 and it’s ok to not like C1 ^.^

[@ericrodriguez9633]

I've been watching CR since campaign 1, and I wasn't ever super hooked by campaign 2. From my perspective, C3 suffers from many of the same issues as C2, those being downtime and pacing. The difference now is, by my estimation, that many of the people watching now fell in love with C2 as their first campaign, and didn't with C3. They are left seeing only the bad parts, not the good, or even the normal. I still hope CR changes, and into what I can only hope, but things are not worse now than they ever really were. It is only the times which are different.

[@ashleycronk3881]

I couldn't disagree more. I found that Campaign two was easily the least enjoyable campaign so far. I'm loving campaign three.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

And in that, I am happy for you ^.^ I’m glad you’re enjoying it.

[@Darkwintre]

For me I thought it was an Arabian campaign, but it's not. Not their fault I'm just not interested.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

It does give off that vibe at the start doesn’t it? Thanks for checking out the video ^.^

[@AuthorJohnADouglas]

I’m glad I’m not the only one that thinks the characters are as dull as dishwater. Especially Orim.

[@orandor6249]

I agree with some of your points. I too love campaign 2 the most, and I do think that some of the characters are not very engaging, or hindered by other means. I completely agree with the Delilah situation - When campaign 3 started I genuinely found Marisha’s character to be her most interesting and fun (I really didn’t like Boe, it didn’t care much for Keyleth, which is partially due to Marisha’s play style and how she sometimes forces herself into the characters in an out of place and judgmental way). The connection to Delilah was intriguing at first, but after her death and the entire ordeal the group made to bring her back and sever the connection between the two, I think it was a mistake to keep them connected. It felt like robbing them of their victory and for the entire thing pointless. For comparison - take Fjord from campaign 2 where he was in a similar situation when he decided to abandon his patron. We got an interesting choice and character development (and Fjord was probably one of the weakest characters in campaign 2). Laudna is locked in her “role” and has also been super annoying and childish of late. Another example of robbing the characters of taking agency and shaping things is with what happened with Ashton lately. Besides that, while I get you argument about diversifying, I will have to point out that Midst was probably their best investment so far. New things are always a risk, and it would be foolish of them to stick to only one single thing, so we just need to decide what to take and what to leave. I could go on about other things, but this has been too long already. I am still following the show and enjoy moments of it. I hope they can make things turn around in some way or another.

[@MannyBrum]

I've watched CR almost since the beginning, before it became popular. I think it was maybe a dozen or two episodes into campaign 1, and I found it by accident because I was bored. The thumbnail and the intro were fan art and I was like is this some sort of cartoon? I had no idea it was a D&D live show nor did I have any idea that that was even a thing (and I don't think it was at that time). I loved campaign 1, it made me want to play D&D again and I started a group because of it and got a lot of people to play for the first time. Campaign 1 had the feeling of a home game (albeit with professional actors) and it was entirely relatable. Campaign 2 started off like it was going to be that way, but about a year into the campaign is where their split from Geek and Sundry happened and now they weren't just producing CR but all of their other stuff on their own and doing other things and it seemed like the magic of the campaign dried up IMO. At the time I wasn't enjoying it anymore I couldn't put my finger on it, but looking back it was shortly after they started doing all their own stuff. I went back and watched the beginning of campaign 3 and it really doesn't make me feel invested right from the beginning. I respectfully disagree that Campaign 2 is the best campaign, or that the Matthew Mercer effect thing started during campaign 2. At the time I first saw this widely discussed on Twitter and Reddit, it was still during Campaign 1, after the popularity of the show started to take off. Also you have to think that a lot of new fans kept pouring in, many of them starting with Campaign 1 before watching campaign 2 (catching up is a big thing among fans) so well into campaign 2 people were still watching the first campaign. Campaign 1 is 373 hours long, so even if you binged it 12 hours a day it would still take you an entire month to finish it, so people who started watching when Campaign 2 came out may still have been watching campaign 1 for the first several months or more before starting Campaign 2.

[@garylblood]

In no way am i disappointed in season 3. Its amazing!

[@WinglessValkyrie]

I'm glad you're enjoying it! I hope you continue to do so ^.^

[@Paradox-es3bl]

We have very different tastes since c1 is my favorite and Vex is one of my favorites. But Laudna is my favorite Marisha character. Finally less of an awkward loser right from the start. A bit more confidence, etc. I like a lot of the c3 characters, I just think they haven't had their moments yet, like they all eventually did in c1 and 2.

[@Playfu1W1nd]

I didn't follow C1, but given how much it was praised I tuned into C2 from the start and I loved it. I was then stoked to hear we were getting a third campaign. I got to about episode 50 or so of C3 and just lost all interest in following it. For me it felt like it was leaning too heavily on call backs to previous campaigns and not focusing on the new story. It kind of felt like they were trying to do the marvel avengers style thing. Again I feel like not everything needs to be a cinematic inter-connected universe like it could just be a series of awesome self contained stories. Just my thoughts though.

[@baturalpdurmaz9272]

I genuinely think Champaign 3 have best written characters so far. On a writing point of course. Think about all the characters in past 2 seasons. They all had sad back stories but they always was the victims, they suffer because of some other evil persons actions not because they did something bad but they have been manipulated. This is not the case with season 3, here they are not perfect. They made mistakes, they have ambitions and not afraid to follow, they get cocky and punish for it, and they actually show how much they care for each other. BH did all of this not in a heroic or funny way, most of these was heavy and unpleasant and i think this is what push others from the story. Because as i understand most of CR fandom doesn't really interested to the actual story telling they just want gameplay and rp sometimes. Dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong with that but times has changed. This is not a funny little game that you used to laugh at they are a big company now and like every big entertainment company they are trying to tell better grounded stories and imo it's pay's of pretty well. World is more complete yet new things are keeps popping up, characters are allowed to be in wrong and makes terrible mistakes and Matt has been really showing off with all those amazing Exandria lore he written

[@trently89]

So are you saying that because they became a company it's no longer interesting? They're STILL the same nerdy ass voice actor friends, they're just a lot more successful now than they were 8 years ago. 8 years ago they were just starrting out streaming, didn't have a lot of money so people could relate more I guess, but just because they upped their game people lose interest? It's like going from middle management to upper management and the people that you worked WITH now work FOR you and they all of a sudden turn on you like you're a completely different person? That makes no sense to me. So what if they made a successful multi million dollar company by playing d and d. Does anyone think it's reasonable for a streamed d and d game to make that much? No. But the fact it's happened and brought thousands if not millions of people to the game, then wouldn't that be a good thing?? If you're looking for a game exactly like critical role you're going to be sorely disappointed, because they're the exception not the rule. People love Taylor Swift despite her being the BIGGEST celebrity on the PLANET right now, I'd say that's pretty unrelatable to me, yet she still has BILLIONS of fans, so I think the fact that people are turning away from critical role for being "too successful" and going the "company route" instead of staying small time is ridiculous and stupid. "Oh I cAnT rElAtE tO cElEbRiTy VoIcE aCtOrS bEcAuSe ThEy BeCaMe MoRe SuCcEsSfUl AnD tHe GaMe BeCaMe AbOuT eNtErTaInMeNt InStEaD oF wHaT pReCoNcEiVeD nOtIoN oF wHaT i ThInK tHeY sHoUlD dO." ThEy don't come into your business and tell you how to run it, so why does every single person who was a fan of theirs think they have any right to tell them what to do with THEIR GAME

[@WinglessValkyrie]

All I was saying is that when Critical Role really started to feel like a company more than a group of individuals is when the show(s) started to change. This is KZbin & Twitch. People don’t generally like things feeling corporate. The fact CR doesn’t even live stream the episodes anymore is a big reason for this feeling. You ever seen people hold their microphones in camera when they don’t need to? It’s to make videos feel less put together, less corporate. You’re obviously a very passionate fan and if you love their games no matter what they do, that’s fine! Live your life how you’re gonna live it, but understand that I’m not trying to tell them how to run their game or their company at large. I’m simply stating that certain choices they made have had certain impacts. What’s done is done. Now we wait and see what the future holds.

[@trently89]

@@WinglessValkyrie I just feel like if you liked them when they were small time and just starting out, you shouldn't stop liking them because they became a successful business out of it. Thats my main point. Sure they feel less relatable, I think that's why Sam goofs off for advertising. But you're right when you reach a level of wealth and celebrity you become less and less relatable. And if that's why you like them then sure it can suck but I like them and want them to succeed in what they do. They're not hurting their fans IMO by doing what they're doing, in fact I feel they're spreading out to reach new audiences. I just don't see it as a bad thing so that's my opinion. I respect your opinion too

[@ranekeisenkralle8265]

You are laying out some very interesting thoughts there, Wingless. And although I have never watched anything from Critical Role (I was just curious about what you have to say, really), I find your line of reasoning very plausible and also applicable to other forms of entertainment: The moment you take your audience for granted is the moment you start losing them. On an unrelated note, what is that tilted box at 12:04? Also, I dig your videos in which you show a bit of the countryside where you live.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

Glad you liked the video ^.^ It’s a trashcan. Fun fact, it’s specially designed that way with a interesting handle to stop bears from getting at the interior 🐻

[@WinglessValkyrie]

I have seen it! It’s a great video :P

[@stevencavanagh7990]

For me it was around episode 50, where the party was scattered, it really felt scripted, and for me what did it was Sam, when F.C.G. chose to dispell magic on Kaleb instead of Healing Keyleth, it was way out of character for him. as well as the content return of previous characters. and the lack of development of everyone but Imogen, who is very much the Main Charater in the Campaign.

[@CinereoTheRogue]

I agree that these characters aren’t as rich as Campaign 2. There isn’t as much moral diversity, they’re all kind of gray.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

Very much so. There is a sliver of interesting things here and there but not much

[@CinereoTheRogue]

@@WinglessValkyrie Also, the campaign seems a lot more railroaded. C2 had dozens of episodes of ensemble building, exposition, and finding trust. Sinking into the immersion, and exploring their character dynamics. C3 went right in, no Peanut Butter.

[@evilstratton]

Thank you for your candid analysis. It is spot on. I’m a season1 guy. This season taught me a lot about the rules for 5e and it resparked my interest in D&D after a 25 year hiatus.

[@jonathanbenton7787]

I agree with you that it feels more corporate now. I put that down, honestly, to the recording it earlier... and I'm not sure why that makes such a big difference but I think it does. I lost interest in campaign 2 for all but the fights. I didn't find the characters particularly interesting and frankly it seemed like they were intentionally playing anti-type. A charismatic half-orc? The barbarian who is more a protector than fighter? A goblin girl? I don't know, it came off as trying too hard. But if there wasn't a fight, I couldn't have cared less about the story bits. And that has carried over into C3... with the issue being fights seem fewer and farther between! The first campaign felt like friends sitting around playing what they enjoyed. Everything since then has felt somehow different.

[@Rustic1990]

Let me preface this by saying I am 100% caught up on C3. I agree with everything you're saying. Most of this season just hasn't "done it" for me. As far as their side projects, I really don't have much interest in them. I watched a couple episodes of Candela and couldn't get into it. Haven't felt like trying Midst. I couldn't tell if my expectations had changed or if the show had, but glad to know others share my thoughts. Oh, and glad to know I'm not the only one who really dislikes Ashton's character.

[@MissBeepBeepxD]

I have watched CR since the Thordak ark started in C1. This is honestly the best explanation why I can't get into c3.

[@webuiltthissmitty]

The last 40-45 episodes or so have been very entertaining and I've enjoyed them immensely. Still very much enjoyed your video!

[@WinglessValkyrie]

I’m glad you’ve been enjoying them! No problem enjoying what others don’t or with not liking what others do. I’m glad you’re enjoying the show ^.^ Thank you as well for checking out the video!

[@georgevillanueva256]

Every time Liam starts to monolog, I fast forward.

[@THEREALTK514]

Great video! I really like s3 but it was rough at the beginning but it gets juicy eventually

[@dankoftinoff8119]

Too me as the popularity of CR grew it felt more like a scripted show. I liked C1 it just felt more like an epic DND campaign. I have found myself more interested in Dimension 20 and recently Chaosium's Cathulu productions.

[@Questfinder1]

Just wait til you learn the campaigns are following the wheel of time book series. Campaign 1 was New Spring, 2 Eye of the World, campaign 3 dragon reborn end of book 2 and book 3. The problem is they switched off main characters and are playing secondary characters. The mIghty nein were the main characters and its just made the story stupid. Why did they not jist continue to level twenty and continue the story. They had mometum and no one noticed the book was ending but Matt ad the cast. (well and me)

[@kaptnawesome]

I think Matt is using campaign 3 to set up a narrative explanation for shift to their own game system (probably dagger heart) and a purge of anything related to Wizards of the Coast. To do that, there are narrative elements that have to happen. I think that might be why some of campaign 3 feels more scripted and forced. After the OGL issues with WOTC, i think CR made a decision to insulate themselves. The biggest hold overs IP wise are the dieties and spells. They already started renaming them like the raven queen becoming the matron of ravens and bigbys hand becoming scanlans hand. Spoilers for season 1 : They removed the entire first arc of c1 from the animated series and i dont think it was because of Orion/Tiberius. I think it was because it was based in the underdark and heavily involved mindflayers, an elder brain, a beholder, and Orcus. All of which are WOTC intellectual property.

[@edwardlomeli5657]

Don’t get some of the logic of them feeling worse cause they are feeling corporate but the most likes season is when they became corporate Feel it’s slightly circular logic or some force of fallacy.

[@GoldenXShark22]

what did vex ever do to deserve that spot

[@baileywalton8840]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I drifted off after maybe 6 episodes of C3. I just wasn't drawn in. I used to reserve Thursdays as CR nights, but this campaign is so full of adds for their stuff I can't stand it. I'm also not a huge fan of Laura, so I'm not interested in a show about her character.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

These are very valid reasons. Especially about the adds. Over 10min of advertising before the show even begins 😓

[@Zombeecakez]

I totally get where you are saying. I really enjoy the campaign. I get where you are coming from. But I like it

[@WinglessValkyrie]

And that’s awesome! I’m glad you’re enjoying it, and I’m by no means saying people shouldn’t like it. Thank you for watching the video. I’m happy for your enjoyment ^.^

[@Premka81]

I searched for these kind of videos because I don't see a place in D&D where you introduce a character as "non-binary" :D as if people before WOKE shit entered a room and first thing they said "Hello everyone, I'm Gloria Prettybottom, lesbian vegan atheist".. no one cares.. If it wasn't for that cast I grew attached for over 9 years, I'd feel the same way as I do for gaming world - go woke, go broke - and would never touch any of their products of which I have quite many.. just feeling disappointed a bit with the business side of it now..

[@dntm123]

Alright here's my perspective: It's Their Freaking Game. They Can Play It However The Hell They Want. What I see when I watch campaign 3 is just a bunch of friends going balls to wall and doing whatever they want and having a blast doing it. If they were to play according to audience wants and expectations, then it would feel fabricated and ungenuine. But hey, if people want to keep complaining that it isn't what THEY want it be, then the cast could just take it back to being a home game, I think I remember someone saying that after the ridiculous complaints about C2s ending. Can you even imagine how much it would suck the fun out of the game for them if they made choices based what the viewers think is best?

[@IsaVarg]

I personally couldn’t get into C1 because when I found it, it already had so many hours of content I couldn’t make myself start. Then C2 had, imo, the most annoying character I’ve ever seen: Jester. I cannot stand the cast’s insanely bad accents, and that one took the cake. C3 I enjoyed at first because of Robbie, then because of Chetney (and to a lesser degree Fearne). Then they introduced Dusk and I lost absolutely any motivation to keep going. Not sure I feel the same way about the show having too much of a company feeling, but I definitely agree the characters needed to be different. None of them are compelling, Sam’s humor is grating, and the most wonderful addition to the cast only stayed for 14 episodes… maybe I’ll try again in C4.

[@Nomoriee]

Great video brother man

[@WinglessValkyrie]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it ^.^ and thanks for watching!

[@zhornlegacy7936]

I am enjoying campaign 3... not as much as campaign 2, but for me it's the stretched out timescale. At least one episode every month being some other game, add to that the weeks taken off for holiday breaks; and the story of campaign 3 is just not progressing that quickly. Furthermore there's currently not a time reassure on the characters, at least not one that's been taken seriously. There's a looming moon-apocalypse and a god-eating-horror... and the party has gone off to the feywild to spend a handful of sessions on teambuilding minigames

[@unexardiximarion1920]

For me it was the near TPK, triple character death that resulted in NO permanent casualties that did it for me. Seeing posts after posts of people saying they are shaking and are definitely traumatised from that event just made me roll my eyes and seriously reconsider even engaging with the community. Especially after the "totally unplaned" death of Molly. Not a single PC died without being either planed (Bertrand and Molly) or for narrative purpose (Vax's pact) in more than 300 episodes. They have the game on easy mode. I bet my nutsack that if the C3 group didn't go to whitestone to resurect Laudna, Matt would have gone "And suddenly, Delilah reanimates Laudna's corpse, yeeeeaaaaahh".

[@DarksideGmss0513]

Im going to be honest i think after the whole situation with the OGL that really took the wind out if their sails.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

100% agree. I think that was absolutely a huge motivator to move to their own in house systems going forward.

[@Panos__P]

You know man, its just your opinion...!

[@WinglessValkyrie]

Everyone's got one!

[@MrBracey100]

One of the big problems with the cast of characters is that everyone except Orym is as Laudna put it a bunch of ticking time bombs. That's just not interesting is everyone has kinda the same thing going on. I don't mind the pre recording because it was supposed to lead to a more cohesive show, you didn't have to worry about players being late or absent. But what sticks in my craw about that is that we don't get 4 shows a month. Ok, they decided to take a week off every month. I get it but still I wasn't crazy about that. On top of that they often run other things in that month so many months you only get 2 episodes of Campaign 3. It makes me feel like they do not need us as an audience nor do they seem to care that that is the impression they are giving. Breaking what had been a very regular schedule has caused me and my wife to be far less invested in the show. It used to be a must watch! Now we'll go months and save up episodes to enjoy. But that leads to a loss of immersion. We struggle to remember what has gone before because of the long gaps between viewings. In fact we are about 20 episodes behind at this point and we've gotten very content watching other things. I'm happy for the success of CR, but I really miss the engagement I once had with the show. It feels like it outgrew me instead the other way around.

[@GRIMHOOD99]

Yeah straight up I don't watch C3 because after 5 episodes none of the characters were interesting to me. I was slightly curious about FCG and Ashton but comparing that to how much interest I had for Jester and Nott in C2 very early on is like comparing glass of water and an aquarium for small sharks.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

I feel you. Dorian was my favorite, which is a sad reality when they guest player was the best one.

[@bobunyun]

I agree with most of your points but not your central point about CR feeling like a company. A couple of years ago, people saw their Twitch earnings and had a sudden "realisation" that CR was an actual company that made actual money. Which was dumb, because they told us they were a company as soon as they split from Geek & Sundry. Travis is CEO, Marisha is Creative Director, etc. What part of this does not sound like a company? Some of this attitude is kind of gatekeepery, in the same way that some people feel offended by the idea of professional gamesmasters. "How dare they be making good money doing a hobby?" Again, I think this is dumb, but it was clearly the attitude of many. I think that another commenter had it right that the switch to prerecording has been a big cause of the lack of connection. It was most likely done for the benefit of the cast, but I think it hurt the show by disconnecting it from the audience. But the main issue with campaign 3 for me has been that the characters are dull and the story and setting are bland. There are only two characters I really like- Laudna, because the creepy cheery thing is hilarious and her origin was a genuine masterpiece, and Fearne, because Fearne is just glorious. It's great to see Ashley unleashed. To me, Chetney and FCG are joke one-note characters, with FCG being pretty irritating a lot of the time; Ashton is an uninteresting blend of Molly and Percy (visually dramatic with a bizarre and complex homebrew ruleset); Orym is so low-key as to be invisible, and Imogen is just dull- she's so "main character" it's ridiculous, but she's just not interesting. Following Jester was always going to be tough, but still... So the main issue is that I just don't care about these characters or this story. I'm about 15 eps behind on this campaign just because it feels like a chore to watch them. As the the Mercer effect, I've wanted my players to actually roleplay their characters for decades, but most of the players I know just don't do that. People need to be realistic; most roleplayers are not trained actors. Anyway, thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

Thank you for the comment! I agree that with you on people suddenly turning coat because they saw the earnings amount but if they really payed attention to the set designs, the amount of sponsorships, the spin off shows, etc, it was not hard to see that they had tons of funding, but without a dollar amount in front of them, people were just blind to it suppose.

[@kmacgregor6361]

I gather Liam intentionally made Orym bland because Vax and Caleb were both such central characters and he wanted to step back and give the spotlight to others more. Which is a shame because his characters and RP are usually some of the best, and there isn't anyone great to give the spotlight to here. It would be really nice to see Sam play a more serious character. Nott was my least favourite in campaign 2 because it had that not-taking-it-seriously vibe.

[@grendalsuncle4040]

I disagree (you do have some good and valid points) the trouble is mostly that it is not new anymore so not as exiting as when it first started they need to (in my opinion) have campaign 4 in an entirely new world and maybe in an entirely new genre ( not fantasy).

[@timfrank7461]

There momment in the sun (I meant to say spot light) I think you mean the moon 😂😂😂

[@WinglessValkyrie]

You know what, that’s a more accurate statement haha

[@TakaD20]

Adoring campaign 2, campaign 3 didn't connect to me at all so I stopped watching it around episode 20. I can't pinpoint the single one reason, but some aspects: Laura's, Liam's and more or less Talesin's character... I just find them boring; Sam's char is fun, but not carrying it for me. A world that's not appealing to me, possibly because it's more like Alice in Wonderland when I like Lord Of The Rings. And stuff like Matt playing out the dialogue of two gay NPC's, talking over their broken romance isn't just my cup of tea...

[@JonAntilla]

Great job on this video. You nailed it. I also think they get so gimmicky. Hardly any humans if they keep up - there 1 game test of their new system had none lol. I mean it is ok but think about Beau and Caleb, they were awesome. You need a strong and flawed wizard in a campaign!

[@Sithicas]

We are?

[@CalmSanity]

Honestly I mostly disagree with you, at least in a direct sense. I think the issue is that the players aren't enjoying it as much as they used to. Don't get me wrong I think they still enjoy it, but a lot of them have gotten older and have been playing this for a decade. You can see it in all their characters they are trying to be so extreme in order to freshen things up which then makes the characters less relatable. The indirect way I agree with you is that this feeling that they are "older" is likely caused by them running the company. For those of us who work in business it is something that just happens, your mindset shifts and it starts to suck the soul out of you. Also want to note that I greatly disagree with your dislike of characters, I love that the necromancer witch will forever be a problem, also Ashton is great. *cough* but im not arguing about vexhalia.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

You bring up some fair points. I can agree with you on the notion the players are playing very extreme versions of PC’s ( Orym being an exception in my opinion ). I greatly disagree with the forever problem for a D&D game. By having Delia always come back, it lessens the achievements of those who “beat” her before. It also lessens any achievements BH will have against her because Matt refuses to let this npc go.

[@CalmSanity]

@@WinglessValkyrie What do you feel makes it worse? The fact that she came back originally in Campaign 3, or that she has come back again after the first defeat in campaign 3? To me once she was back in campaign 3 the way she is, there was no getting rid of her during this campaign. For her to go it would mean Laudna no longer being a PC in what ever shape that takes.

[@sweetpapad4674]

I’m going to stop you right there my man and disprove every… we’ll actually only one thing slightly wrong, to say ca 2 was better then ca 1 objectively is a factual wrong just for the fact there’s no data way to show it, both groups have massive reddit posts fan followings and the like, along with detractors people like hating on Kylith in 1 and jester in 2 (did not know that was a thing till recently) so we can’t go off internet discourse and numbers of views seems unfair duo to the fact that, that huge spike in popularity happened in covid time, so it wasn’t so much ca2 itself but Covid locking people in and critical in general being great and I think either campaign would have achieved this. Bar ca3 here’s my Oliver branch here for I want no war between ca1 and ca2 both where amazing for different reason but everyone felt distinct which I don’t feel is the same in the 3 there’s more of a generality and a crutch of connecting to past characters ( I mean I was hoping to see old Vox back in 2 but even I’m saying this is a bit much) plus I just don’t see any of the characters backstories lending well to their own arc, allow me to explain, in both 1 and 2 characters were split into arc backstories and long game backstories, thing like Percy central arc compared with kyliths long traversed Druid training or scalan development over time which keeps characters different in how there story goes, but now everyone seems to have some story that leads right back to the main threat ( not exactly a bad thing I try and do something similar myself) and that means those personal stories don’t see an end till the main threat has its end and that just feels way to drawn out for me personally at least.

[@csdn4483]

The big problem with CR3 is the characters. The funny aspect is, to me, the best characters in CR3 are being played by the two people that had the worst characters in CR2, Ashley and Marisha. Bo and Yasha was boring for the most part in CR3, yet Fern and Laudna are the most enjoyable character from CR3. FCG just isn't that interesting compared to Scanlan and Nott. I dislike Chetney and Ashton. Orym just seems to be there and isn't really necessary to the story. It's sad that Ashley and Marisha really are getting to play fun and enjoyable characters, but the overall campaign is just bland.

[@tobiaslundqvist3209]

I just think there's too little action haha. There's nothing wrong with that, just an opinion.

[@dma-rising8876]

Exactly what I’ve been saying for years. Just look at CR Pre and Post lockdown. The game feels so much different when they came back be before they left.

[@GameFail_Comedy]

I like C2, is my favorite but i did like the campaing whith EXU Calamity. Campaing 3 have the worst characters. Imogen is terrible. Fearne is cool is my favorite character of Asheley. I like FGC but Sam is terrible cleric. Ladna was fun for the first 7 games. Chetney is Great i like him too, he is my favorite in the campaing. I did not like Orym he is bland. The problem is the characters are not likeble. Campaing 2 was the best, every character was amazing the only problem was Yasha because her could not participate in every season.

[@kinghoenn3478]

A main reason for me is the number of boring and unlikable characters everybody is playing. Lauda to me started off amazing, she was my favorite starting off but she just kept slowly getting worse as the show went on. Now she is the second worst with Imogen taking first place.

[@timfrank7461]

What's become bad about her I finally like a marisha character lol

[@flyfreemeru]

i like 1st and 2nd campaign, the 3rd campaign is filled with too much sex, i cannot watch it with my niece, they cut a lot of their viewers because of this

[@kuma2448]

I really tried to watch Season 3, but I didn't click with any character.

[@WinglessValkyrie]

A problem many have expressed sadly.

[@kuma2448]

@@WinglessValkyrie My second issue was that early on in campaign 3 it seems they were more focused on "being entertaining" than actually playing D&D. And I liked it more when they were playing D&D and not playing characters in a show.

[@JonAntilla]

The fighting is gone in C3~ It is not good. Story is great but it is DnD, jeez/

[@ramirobot]

three zeros is not a one percent chance.

[@tranquilxplosion8977]

Three 0s means on a d100 he rolled a 100. In dice there isn't the ability to have a 100 on the dice. So it's a 00 and a 0 on two dice one being the 10/100 place and the other is the ones pace. So a equal 1 to 100 is the result.

[@ramirobot]

@@tranquilxplosion8977 i forgot about that 😅

[@minine6508]

I fell HARD off critical role- and I was a critical role baby in ttrpgs. I agree exactly on your point: the characters are all kinda ass. I wouldn’t say *annoying*, but none of them really draw me in. It doesn’t help that half them, like you said, were from EXU, which I also didn’t really like

[@007ohboy]

I hate Critical Role.and think its everything wrong with the crop of new players coming in.

[@DPSAX95]

my fav campaign so far. All characters are flavorful and unique and their progression is really cool. All the risks and negatives you state are the best part of it dude.

[@Darkeus1]

Beside finding D&D 5th edition a dreadful system, my problem with CR has ALWAYS been the characters. I did not watch Campaign 2 so i can't speak on that but i personally thought Season one was all stereotypical meh characters. Scanlan (and Sam) are annoying as all hell. I just never saw what people saw in this series. So it is no surprise the shine has come off to me. It didn't shine in the first place IMO.

[@alaskasu9264]

I agree, the story is too slow. But, for me, it really is about the characters. Especially Imogen. I loved her at first, but then I felt she overreacted over what Bertrand did by throwing her drink in his face and I haven't liked her since. She's just annoying now and I feel like the character is the embodiment of what nasty fans have been saying of Laura since c1.

[@timfrank7461]

What's that?

[@alaskasu9264]

@timfrank7461 Let me start by saying *I* don't feel this way, but many of the toxic fans greatly dislike any character Laura makes and many dislike Laura. They think she purposefully steals the spotlight, trying to make her character the center of attention.

[@timfrank7461]

@alaskasu9264 I mean hey I'll be the first to say I'd have not Liked any of marishas characters Accept Her one shot characters Laudna Has been the first character I liked

[@alaskasu9264]

@@timfrank7461 I can understand not liking characters, but many were pretty much just attacking her for making assertive or girly characters.

[@creative_crunch5538]

I think Laura just did that because Travis is her husband and she likes to mess with him. I feel like people forget it's just a game for them, and when they make their character do dumb things they probably don't think about how people will perceive it. Laudna is my favourite character out of all of the campaigns and I like imogen as a character by extension because she cares about laudna a lot lol

[@givorenon]

This popped up in my recommendations and man is it hard for me to follow. You don't like the characters and the plot in campaign 3, cool. How is it related to the fact that "CR feels like a company"? Are you implying that they started spending more time on other things and that's the reason their characters aren't interesting anymore? Travis is the CEO of CR and you like his character. So he somehow manages to entertain you while managing CR as a company. I really don't get your point with Candela Obscura. I get that you don't wanna watch it. Sure, you do you. But how does existence of Candela Obscura impact quality of campaign 3? Candela started way after the cast came up with their boring characters and it doesn't involve the main cast to an extent high enough to claim that campaign 3 quality degraded because of it. Also it's funny that you compare CR to Dimension 20. Dimension 20 doesn't feel like a company to you, cool. Dropout is a company though, and Dropout hosts ~9 shows alongside D20 and plans to release 7 more next year. I believe you don't watch "Play it by ear". But it seems you don't have any qualms with D20 because of "Play it by ear". Why then does Candela Obscura bother you so much?

[@WinglessValkyrie]

- "Are you implying that they started spending more time on other things and that's the reason their characters aren't interesting anymore?" Yes. Laura is leading the merchandise. Sam is leading the Sponsorships. Liam is leading the novels & short stories. Ashley is running the 501c3. Marisha is producing on almost every other video project, Matthew has had to hire a team of writers to help him continue to worldbuilding and create the campaign and Travis is running everything as CEO. On top of all of that, they are all also still running full time careers within the voice acting sphere. - "Travis is the CEO of CR and you like his character." His character is the best of the 7. Still doesn't hold up against even the mediocre characters of C2. - "But how does existence of Candela Obscura impact quality of campaign 3?" C3 is being pushed aside for Candela. The fact that some Thursday nights are being set aside for Candela episodes is proof of that. They wanted the main audience to see it. The main audience that tunes in to watch a D&D actual play. Not a blades in the dark/vaesen spin off. - "Dimension 20 doesn't feel like a company to you" D20 is a product of Dropout, just like all it's other shows. Critical Role IS the main product, and it's being changed and contorted for the sake of other products that are not Critical Role, simply branches of it, but with too many branches brings a large weight onto this tree that may not have the roots to stand. - "Why then does Candela Obscura bother you so much?" Like I mentioned in the video which you clearly missed. I have no interest in a game that tells me how not to play it. Page 9 of the online quick start pdf states "In our experience, roleplaying "insanity" is neither ethical nor mechanically viable." It is the job of the GM & players to discus what they want out of a game during session zero. Not the developers. If I purchased your rules system, I wanna stretch it to it's limit and see how many cool interesting things I can do within your system. Telling me how not to play your system leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. This is honestly a piece of a much larger problem with Critical Role and it's die hard fans. CR want's to be the absolute no harm can be done squeaky clean everyone is accepted style company, but it leads to things like this where they are telling you how not to play their games.