Why People Aren't Buying Venom Pinball

[@cards2599]

$tern has priced the regular guy out of the game.

[@ExpressoMechanicTV]

I would agree with the Marvel fatigue. Personally, I'm sick and tired of superhero themed pinballs. I'd like to see more original ideas, that have no link to comic book characters, TV shows or films. Oh, and yes - the prices are insane!

[@shankapotimus5000]

I have thought recently a new car themed Pin would be fun. Tired of comic book themes as well!

[@ExpressoMechanicTV]

@@shankapotimus5000 Horror themed are among my favourites. They are usually, very humorous and have great soundtracks and callouts.

[@Anacridhaze]

Agree with all of the above.

[@LordCyler]

Add Bands to that list

[@ExpressoMechanicTV]

@@LordCyler Definitely!

[@matthewm9327]

I would argue it's not just Venom. It's pinball in general. Prices on a niche luxury toy are far too high in Stern's model, and ridiculously stupid in JJPs model. Used games are sitting right next to the NIB games not being bought because the market is now beyond sensibility and people are cutting back on toys. Ex.: I have a Foo Prem at $8,800 presently and no bites, but one offer at $7,500. Perhaps the 'bubble' is deflating?

[@kylen.6742]

Everything luxury that isn't a "need" is slumping now. Rolexs were similar to pinball machines. Couldn't get them, high prices, used higher than new. Now I'm seeing prices coming down and dealers that wouldn't return my calls are now reaching out. As far as Venom, it's a couple years behind the popularity of the movies. It's a meh from me. They need to come up with original stuff like Willaims/Bally did in the 90's. Stern just licenses anything like whores.

[@dondon4720]

I hope the bubble is deflating for all of our sakes, Companies be getting greedy, more $$ for less in the machine

[@willierants5880]

This, right here. I can't speak for others, but this is my experience.

[@tyarnold4088]

@@dondon4720 even though I own 5 machines I hope the bubble will pop. These prices need to stop.

[@Jesselovespinball]

The prices are ridiculous. I will say I just picked up a TZ for 8 grand . No mods , but a clean well maintained game . I thanked the guy for selling it for a reasonable amount . That’s the cheapest I’ve ever seen by a long shot . He said that he thinks the bubble is popping as well . Let’s make these machines attainable for people again !

[@ColsPinballMods]

Same deal when I saw it was too fast and too baron however spare a thought for us here in the UK with Sterns Pricing as follows: Pro $10700 Premium $14560 LE $20k Now thats what I call Overpriced especially for a mediocre Theme and layout

[@mcnillerandsons7906]

If they could get pros back to 6000, premium 7600, and LE at 10500 I think they’d be able to boost their sales and get closer to market equilibrium. You’re spot on about the DLC content. That was set in stone when the Disney guy took over.

[@nick-8013]

Yes!!!! This right here.

[@mcnillerandsons7906]

@boblepongerectange stern pros are stripped to the bone. All they have is code. Even stern premiums at 10000 don’t even come with something as basic as a shaker motor. I agree on JJP having crazy pricing. I have no experience with CGC. Spooky is the most value per dollar by a mile in my opinion. I’m definitely not saying this is a stern issue. This is an entire market issue that will correct itself just like every capitalist market does.

[@Hyperbolic_G]

6k? You're thinking too high.... especially with how absolutely handicapped the pros are from the premiums.

[@nickynj454]

Yeah but to get there they are going to cut back so much no one will want them anymore. We expect Godzilla quality at World Poker Tour prices. Stern is in trouble.

[@Ledman301]

@@nickynj454stern could easily get to 6k imo. Greed always gets in the way.

[@cowboys808]

Problem with LEs at least in 2023 is every single Distro is charging more than MSRP! Which is absolutely BS in my eyes. I've been completely priced out of LEs for a very long time.

[@johnmcclane2139]

The problem isn't demand. The problem is price. A game has to hit on all fronts if you're charging 10k or higher. Also, the pros arent cutting it. A pro cant be a completely stripped down game with a price tag of 7k or higher.

[@EBHomeMovies]

My opinion is that the Pro model exists only because the premium is overpriced. If they priced them fairly they could ditch the PRO all together. It's a bad product begrudgingly purchased. Nobody WANTS a pro.

[@nicoy3k]

Demand is a result of price Sherlock

[@EBHomeMovies]

@nicoy3k Stern identifies demand and then shorts supply on purpose to put the screws to the whales, Holmes. Duh. The entire model is a contrived screw job.

[@philipdixon]

Think they have reached tipping point with the price. AS each game increases I can't sell a recent older game to mostly finance a newer game. 007 pro was my last and that was £8500.

[@pinballguru]

People are saving for John Wick and Jaws.

[@DaveHWasHere]

I do agree that 5k was the turning point for the Pro games. I became a LOT more selective when a Pro went above that. As they kept going up, my selectivity became higher and higher. Yes, I bought Godzilla, but it was a dream theme, and an amazing game (and yes, I played it before buying one). But am I paying that for a "lesser" game? Absolutely not. A game needs to knock it out of the park for me to think of buying at the current prices. Stern already knows that, and they know that I'm not alone in that.

[@nickynj454]

Did you get a Godzilla pro or premium? I have my eye on a pro because that extra $2600 is killer but I wonder if I`ll be pissed I'm missing all the toys.

[@DaveHWasHere]

@@nickynj454 I bought the Pro, and several of my friends have the Pro. I tend to shy away from the extra mechs, and for almost every game, the Pro models play faster than the Premium.

[@carltremblay9451]

i want to buy godzilla too but i think that the pro model is lacking a lot compared to the premium ima shel out the xtra dough when i buy it 4 sure@@nickynj454

[@imnitguy]

I picked up a HUO GZ Pro for $6800 with side blades and shaker motor installed. I prefer the Pro for the flow. Most scoff at this - I didn't think paying almost $3k extra for the building and the mechagodzilla were worth it. And I still don't.

[@Chicoman67]

Game design & theme is definitely a contributing factor but look at the last 8 pinball machine releases.....Scooby Doo, Foo Fighters, Godfather, Galactic Tank Force, Queen, Pulp Fiction, This is Spinal Tap, Centaur and now Venom. The exception is Pulp Fiction LE (we will be lucky if we see this before 2025)......nothing else has sold through or even generated mediocre sales.....prices have gone up an average of 15%-25% for every model....we recently saw Pinball Brothers drop the price on Queen by $1,000 to $8995 and it's still not selling. Deflation is here and it's going to force manufacturers to offer price protection to Distributors to help them move through inventory otherwise they will simply refuse to bring in new inventory. Some of these pinball manufacturers will not survive Deflation. The economy is having a direct impact on everyone's wallet and their spending. Goto your local barcade/arcade and see how many of the above pinball machines do they have available for play? My best guess is 1 and that's Foo Fighters....some may have Godfather or James Bond but that's it. I haven't seen a Scooby Doo, Galactic Tank Force or Queen anywhere in the wild. It's actually got to be scary for these pinball manufacturers to see the rapid decline in consumer demand because it's just beginning and there's no end in sight. Businesses will start to feel the struggle soon.....it's going to get ugly very quickly....over the next 3-6 months.

[@davidmuscolino7273]

I have to agree, the manufactures have been riding high on the pandemic buying spree, and being sold out of everything, but once supply has caught up with demand and money gets tight, most people will sit back and think more about how they spend their money. I got lucky and bought a NIB Maiden before the price increase, and I love the game, but I'm like others in this thread, and am out of the NIB market with the current prices, unless a dream theme comes along. I admit I would buy a Munster's if they reran them, because I missed the last run because Stern shorted my distributor and they couldn't fill my preorder, but other than that, I'm going to enjoy my current collection. I'm sure there are people who will always have the disposable cash to buy anything, but the average person in my opinion is being priced out of the market.

[@texz71]

Three factors: 1) Prices are getting out of reach to most people's budget. 2) market is over saturated with new machines released. 3) what we are getting in hardware/software in comparison to what they are costing is not adding up. Older Williams/Bally/DataEast machines used to be much more complex in hardware than recent modern Pins. You could argue a forth point of Venom being a less known or desired theme (again compared back to the cost of what you are getting). So it all seems to come to one key factor: Cost for what you are getting.

[@voltinator]

I don't think it's the theme. Like if this were a Mission Impossible theme or something kiddie like Shrek would that compel people to plunk down moolah for that price range?

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

such as prices for dumb games like Medieval Madness lol@@voltinator

[@michaeljkasnter]

Prices have gotten too HIGH!!!! Market is Saturated!!!

[@RETROCENGO]

Congratulations on 8000+ subs Cary😊 Great video, yea premium is the way to go on Venom. Prices are crazy, a little addition to the video would be for us in Europe, we pay 1000usd for fly them home and plus 25% vat on top of that, so the pro is around premium price for us, another point Stern should take into consideration

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

LE would be my choice for any new Stern games now

[@claytonmckee8392]

Stern should compensate for customers that live in places with outrageous taxes? Bold thought

[@michaelpress9863]

I went to Pintastic yesterday and played a lot of Venom. I have been plodding for my first machine for the last year and a half. I was hoping the pro would suffice but it really did feel sad after I played the premium. That being said, I really loved the premium. I didn’t come close to learning the game/figuring it out as I was in a crowded area, etc, but I walked away super impressed. The only real “letdown” I can recall is the 4 armed Spider-Man “doppelgänger” wasn’t really all that cool to hit. I feel like this is a machine I could sink a ton of time into at home. When I left the game and came back later and scanned in, it asked if I wanted to continue my game. No idea what that meant so there is a lot of learning involved!! So I’d definitely consider it for my first pin, but also seriously looking at Deadpool and TMNT. Mando and FF are also right up there but not as cool themes for me.

[@SkatelowMC]

About your point on DLC: I'd argue Stern already does that with their toppers unlocking modes in-game

[@Locrum]

I would really like to get my first pinball machine, but even the old prices are hard to justify. So many other things that provide more value for that price range. Still, I’d consider getting one if the theme and play where something I connected with, AND I could finance it at 0% over a longer period of time. I don’t see that happening. That, and these things aren’t small. My kids have moved out and I still don’t have enough room.

[@tyarnold4088]

Yes the prices are high. But if you get one of the better games, you can always get 90% of your money back.

[@Locrum]

@@tyarnold4088 The risk for me, is that what I might think is a good, isn’t necessarily popular with those that would be in the market. I’ve been eyeballing the Iron Maiden Premium for awhile now, but when I can find one, they’re priced higher than the LEs where at the time. I like the JJP Guns N’ Roses too, but don’t even want to know the price. I do plan to start saving, but it’ll be awhile. Maybe something will come out I both like, and can afford.

[@raydaypinball]

If you fail a battle via running out of time or draining, your path loses all its progress (the dots on the grid), and you’ll lose any awards you had for completing boxes. So entering a battle early definitely has a risk. And enemies do fight back, if you don’t hit a shot for ten seconds or so they attack you and regenerate some of their health. 👍

[@ryshask]

I think it's just that venom is not a fun pin to play. We have a pro here... I've played it a few times... the modes are confusing and it feels more like a treadmill grindy game more than a fun experience.

[@foolishheartband3096]

I wish I put my money on any Stern over Haggis. The ponzy scheming Damian after two years of waiting said 120 more days after taking all my money which I expected game to be in shipped. After 120 days he now says 6 more months. Now wants to give me and 3 others a refund AFTER “production “ is over. Which most likely will be never. I got robbed ! Take any stern any day!

[@JediGillGaming]

I think a big factor is how many machines where released at the beggining of the year, on top of that it's summer and since the main market is now the home market. People are taking vacations and whatever pinball money they had saved already got spent on the various pins that recently got released. "Foo Fighters, The Godfather, Final Resistance, Scooby Doo, Galactic Tank Force, Pulp Fiction" I think it's safe to say the market is a bit saturated and the prices are just too high to buy this many machines at once. It would be wise for Pinball Manufacturers to wait after summer for another release. This pinball machine insn't helping it by not having any killer mechs to help justify the price. I really hope this helps Pinball to keep prices in check.

[@frankvonfrauner]

Even the difference between $4000 and $7000 isn't enough to get pinball out of the luxury class. You can buy a PS5, and Xbox, and a top end gaming rig for half of that. Theme is king.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

true and I have those PC and console games that I finished past several years now bored and want retro games like pinball for quick breaks.

[@LordCyler]

Pricing likely won't hold at this level + Marvel fatigue + (and probably most important) it looks boring.

[@chadalexander1924]

Superhero fatigue is definitely real. I love Venom as a theme, and even I'm like, "I like the fastness of the pin, but still..."

[@Maleko333]

I played a bunch of games on the Premium at Comic-Con and really enjoyed it. I'm sure some people will change their tune after they've played the Premium. Can't speak to the Pro as I didn't bother playing it since I have one on order to route.

[@brunogaspar3977]

There’s no space and money for average machines at these prices! As someone stated here already Europe prices are insane 9k Pro, 12k premium and 17k for an LE forget it Ppl are being careful and selective where to spent money…I don’t think Venom is sufficient

[@WrinkleRelease]

Could it also be the modern art package trend? Some of the new playfields are so busy its hard to keep track of what the hell is going on. I miss clean playfields that do what they to do but don’t slap me upside the head with a color explosion.

[@Hyperbolic_G]

These prices are outrageous. I get it, stern wants to capitalize on the whales. But those that arent whales and have sensibilities still REFUSE to buy at these prices. They will simply go without rather than feed into the behemoth. If there was a solid game at $5500 again, the amount of people willing to drop their saved up pinball cash is astronomical. But dont think we arent capable of saving and saving and saving. Nearly all of us know enough people or places to get our fix. It comes down to whether or not these companies want our money or not. Sidenote: Even at $5500, Venom pro is a no go for most people. Stop making the premium and LEs play so much different than the pros.

[@cigarsandpins4781]

I don't love the prices, but it's marvel fatigue for me. Deadpool was the last one I bought and enjoyed. Had avengers and sold it right away.

[@JUICY_TIME]

It would be nice once in awhile that stern would do a sale on their machines. You know give back to their customers. Me personally though I am in the 12% for venom but I am going to wait until next year for trying to have some financial responsibility. Good stuff bud!

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

right? Like discount 2-3k for holiday Black Friday sales! They still make $$ and can do an annual sale!

[@jth1670]

Jut my 2 cents. Pricing is nuts right now, and I don't see the day I will be able to purchase a full gameroom. Here in Canada a pro goes for almost 11k canadian if we include the 15% taxes of where I'm living and this does not include transport. Retailers are pretty useless imo and this means paying a second transport most of the time. That would be a wise move from Stern to offer direct sales and pass the saving to their customers. Other industries like guitars and mountain bikes are doing well with this model. Here's my opinion on current pricing and offering. Pricing should be game dependent according to the bill of material and assembly time required + overhead vs desired profit margin. Pro: should be 5 to 6k. The machines are OK as they are stripped down version and that's fine besides the price. Premium: should be 7 to 8k. And it doesn't feel that "PREMIUM" as it is right now. Besides the full gameplay experience with the complete playfield and different art, you get nothing else for your 2.7k extra at current pricing . Let's be honest, the BOM for those extras is probably around 500, so stern is actually asking way too much for the premium. To make it feel premium as most of those machines end up in house and not locations, they should include more stuff. Better speakers, like the ones in the LE, but behind the standard black panel. Anti-reflective glass. Side armor stickers. Shaker. And, basic straight one tone colored powder coating for legs, rails and lockbar. LE: should be 10k in their current form. If they want to charge more, it should be fully loaded. Everything should be powder coated with sparkles or metallic finish (Legs, coin door, shooting rod plate, lock bar, side rails, apron, hinges, speaker grill). It should have the game specific shooting rod and a physical knocker included also. Should have the topper included or at the very minimum a pre-sale exclusive access to it at a very significant discounted price(like 50% off) if they don't want to unveil it at the same time as the machines. I don't own any game yet. Regarding Venom, not interested at all. For me, it's Deapool pro and TNMT pro that I would like to own in the last 5 years or so releases....

[@slinger2112]

Like someone else wrote, at the current pricing, only dream themes... Foo Fighters was that for me. Companies rarely reduce prices after they see customers will pay, but maybe Stern would be compelled to adjust the value by returning the features to the pro/premium lines. For Pros, playability affecting mechs should be a must. At blades could be added without affecting reliability for operators. Premiums should include shakers, expression/blades and maybe the 5-1/4 speakers at their price. Include a topper and save the exclusivity tags and powder coating for LEs.

[@slinger2112]

I'm assuming the demand for new games aligned with the pandemic/inflation to lead to the wait-lists where everything was selling immediately at any price. I'm hoping Stern's factory expansion will at least solve the supply side of the equation. Maybe accessories can release within a couple months of a game's release, at least...

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

Foo Fighters is a fun but brutal hard game!

[@808zhu]

I'll take an old classic fixer upper.

[@Anacridhaze]

Me too. That’s how I have built my entire collection.

[@willierants5880]

Who has $$$ to buy it? Those with deeper pockets than I probably just bought a FF, PF and maybe a SD that they are still waiting on. Me, I just get to stare through the glass and keep working on my late 70's early 80's games, which are AWESOME. Still who wouldn't want some newer machines?

[@LivingwithCable]

The entire economy is taking a hit. Houses sitting on market a lot longer, including price reductions which we didnt see 6+ months ago. Interest rates have climbed. I still believe all of it was produced due to stimulus money. I believe Foo sat right at the tipping point.

[@CaryHardy]

but no one is talking about that. news is more concerned about pronouns.

[@nicoy3k]

You want the news to be talking about pinball machines not selling?

[@CaryHardy]

@nicoy3k if I had to choose between either the news talking about the economy or people complaining about not being called by their pronouns - i choose the former.

[@LivingwithCable]

I remember when news was actually news! Now what little bit of news they actually produce you have to validate. If it isn't pronouns, it's race. Only two major headlines now.

[@taboo8614]

Played a lot of Venom this weekend at SFGE and its going to be an awesome game. Both the Pro and Premium are a lot of fun and I can't wait for it to come out.

[@gumby510]

With venom being rumored I took this opportunity a week before it was at comic con to get GZ pre NiB. Figured it was a good time to buy before they are sold out after seeing venom haha. I was right. Price is way to high now and JJP will have to adjust as well.

[@Mercdds]

1000 LEs makes them not an LE. Go back to 500. Doesn’t feel premium anymore. And 13k is insane. I’d only pay that for an Elwin title.

[@BrownDogPinball]

No way I am paying these prices. Bring them back down to 6/7.5 and I will shop. Until then, I will just go to the local barcade. There is 3 of them in my area.

[@dvda1722]

stern needs to get back to the 2020 price range

[@Wolfanoz]

Definitely not just the game being meh (even though Yeti's art always being amazing, we're not strictly paying for art, however) but yes, the price structures and the fact they gut the Pro games now compared to years past (the one that comes to mind between minimal differences is Star Trek Pro and Premium with the regular plastic ramps vs. the wire ones and some playfield toys and the armor). Marvel fatigue is very real as much as I love Marvel. I can also see Stern changing their tune soon (over the next game or two other than this one) and think your assessment about it is accurate on that front as money is tight for more than not for leisure. Great vid, man.

[@OkieNGa]

One thing I would like to point out, in Godzilla, which most people love, when fighting the different Kaiju, I do not recall 1 negative effect during the various battles or do they ever ‘hit back.’

[@nicoy3k]

Pricing needs to be where it was in 2019, that’s the truth.

[@CombatandCollecting]

I bought a Venom pro. I enjoy the speed of the game and it will look great next to my Avengers Infinity Quest. The pro also has the Carnage ball lock.

[@CombatandCollecting]

@@ghostinthemachine7171 have you played the pro?

[@CombatandCollecting]

@@ghostinthemachine7171 I haven’t played the premium. The 3k price difference is just not there for me. The rapid ball locks were the biggest feature that I wanted to experience and the pro has em.

[@burgercore]

The theme is cool and Brian Eddy makes the best fan layouts. The prices are rough though. I enjoyed my FF premium, put 1200 games on and let it go.

[@pfredflyer]

I legitimately love spiderman and Venom but im not exactly the prime pinball collector candidate. 2 games is good enough for me for a while

[@davidtucker4044]

Must be tough buying pins in America :)) He in the UK, a Venom pro is £8,295 ( $9,950), Premium £11,295 ($13,550) , LE £15,495 ($18,595) You guys have it REAL good on pricing. Check these $ amounts. Insane

[@LegoYodaX]

Basically out VAT rate sucks..... ;)

[@danyatchyshyn5459]

Geesh, over priced is over priced no matter where you live.

[@pipes3]

That's absolutely incredible. How can anyone justify those prices? It's insane.

[@tyarnold4088]

Wow. Are you getting one?

[@davidtucker4044]

Er no

[@michaeljkasnter]

“Next Time on American Greed” !!!!! Seth Davis destroys Stern Pinball !!!!!

[@RyKnocks]

I’d like to see an original virtual table converted into a physical table. Volkan or Blood Machines comes to mind.

[@Adema71]

Would be cool if they had fights were you lost points if you get “ hit” and each hit you lose more and so on…..

[@joshgrube84]

I just got my day 1 "home Foo Pro" on Friday. They're trying hard to eliminate the Pro all together from their tier by stripping them and now putting them last since Bond. I'm definitely not waiting 5 months for this "P3 The Pin" version. But i think having a nice Pro available to the public could've saved sales for this, atleast initially.

[@tobiwan71]

Do you think the Foo Pro is stripped? I think it is great though 6K would be nice :). I don’t really see the value in upgrading to the premium. Looking to buy for family Xmas possibly.

[@joshgrube84]

@tobiwan71 hell no, I think it's the best version! I'm not an upper playfield guy, tho. I like to be able to see the ball, especially on a game like this where flow is unbelievable! It's literally the exact same playfield. There are no mechs and toys on any version, the shots are the toys and boy do they deliver! This is my first and only pro but the other versions have no value at these new hyper inflated prices.

[@mstang0168]

I got got confused when I started hearing river flows in you towards the end because I thought my son was playing in the other room until I realized it was part of your video 😂

[@mannymets5687]

They need to go to 3 games per year instead of 4 or 5. Also, the art just looks too busy and way too bright for Venom. It should have consisted of more blue, black and grey, and has way too much red etc... It reminds me of deadpool.

[@afattori316]

They are at 3 releases this year.

[@lucky6666]

Maybe do 1 to settle and catch up in 2024 and then 2 in 2025. They do have to compete though and less pins opens doors.

[@abrown4835]

LE has perfect art that isnt busy but pro and premium are way too busy

[@kylefisher3667]

I have a small time "hobby route" that helps fund my personal pinball collection. I've been buying nib pros and routing them with great success, but with that said I won't pay 7k for a pro. Unless prices go down(they wont) I don't foresee myself buying a nib anytime soon. Instead I'll go back to buying pros on the used market.

[@FLIPADO34]

Very good point of view - I would say it’s even more valid for rest of the world - there is still a chance of slow sales ramp up like we had for Deadpool just because sometimes singular games works well for casual players and because of code magics work… who knows…

[@scottypinball2163]

Danger and Elwin had to flip this whitewood and they didn't say anything? "Yeah Eddy, i think you are ready on to something here" Both should lose their reserved employee parking spaces.

[@pinfarmer]

Even those with huge game rooms run out of room and become selective. We have all played the fan layout to death. It's worth waiting to see if the code is good and then buy a finished product. And most of all: waiting.on the next Keith design.

[@redrum3r]

fewer home sales is good news for the small city(500k-1m pop) operator that can corner the market.

[@eb1492]

I think Venom Premium looks great! The art, the music, and the code is still only at .8. Trying to sell me fully loaded Sth Pro to get one.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

looking at getting a Venom LE if a deal can be found.

[@-COZ]

I agree. Price are way too high on NIB pinball

[@bbrruuccee2]

it's tough to draw conclusions from polls without some knowledge of sampling and statistical significance. stern doesn't need a majority of respondents to want the machine. if 6% actually buys the machine, they're sold out. the people answering aren't random, they may even be some of the same people in both surveys. there's all kinds of issues and biases going on. your point is clear, but reaally anecdotal, that's all. inventory available after launch day is certainly a bad omen.

[@CaryHardy]

The non-anecdotal is the lack of interest and orders coming in. I have multiple sources from distros that have confirmed my information in this video.

[@timohendriks6650]

Yo Cary, me and my pinball friends from the Netherlands totally agree with you. Just for fun.... let me show you the prices we have to pay in Europe: Venom pro $ 9500,- Venom Premium $ 12.500,- Venom LE $ 17.450,- I'm also very curious if Venom is going to sell in Europe. Not only for Venom, but also for al the upcoming titels for those prices.... Best regards, and love your video's Timo

[@mstang0168]

My game room would be pretty boring if I had five godzillas sitting in a row, I like a variation in layouts (and I have room for a fan since I let EHOH go). I think with the code complexity this layout makes sense but I won’t really know until I get to play it for a while. I did order one but it does feel like they may be at either a price or units produced tipping point with the LEs. They ramped that number up fast during Covid but 1000 units @13k now with a soft resale market is all too much.

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

played Godzilla and did not enjoy it! Sad as I am a fan of the movies but gameplay was not my cup of tea. Venom was fun!

[@mannymets5687]

The price of everything is higher. If anything, most things have increased more than pinball machines have, and at least pinball machines hold their value pretty well, and much better compared to other electronics. Used game prices are stable, and have not dropped, and new game prices will not be reduced either. It does seem like Foo Fighters was recently released, and they keep reproducing their most popular machines, so people just dont have enough money to buy everything. We are not talking about a $25 blu ray move. Also, people are limited by space regarding how many machines they can own at one time. Too many new games have come out over the past 3 months or so, so they are creating their own issues by releasing new titles too fast. The pinball business is as strong as it has ever been, most likely stronger, and if the game is good and popular it will sell , and if they make more duds like Led Zep it simply will not.

[@nicoy3k]

Wrong, you cannot compare the price of a pinball machine to a banana

[@t.c.bowling1934]

I have a few ideas for Stern. But l'm not sharing for the marketing department. Could this be the rise and fall of Jack Danger?

[@joeb3008]

Moving into that new facility they’re gonna be pumping out so many machines the supply is going to be so high. The demand is going to be so low in comparison. Simple economics. This is going to be fascinating. The housing and car market will probably be similar.

[@lucky6666]

Not getting LE cause I want to play and don't want to spend an extra $4k for what it gives. Distributers are tacking on extra shipping and costs compared to premium. $4k is another pin 😂. Collectors have their favorite fan layout and don't want it. What they don't realize is this is the best fan layout ever made 😈.

[@DoctorSpeedy1050]

Feel better about paying for JP premium and FF premium at current prices… but Venom’s playfield looks really simple and the theme doesn’t jive with me.

[@kaneholman5781]

Try living in Australia and looking to buy a your first pinball. $12,000AU ($8,142USD) including shipping and tax for a pro and almost $16,000 for a premium. Jurrasic Park or Deadpool are far more appealing than Venom but still hard to justify to the wife.

[@AdamGtr86]

Foo sold well in my opinion because so many new comers. How many times have you read on pinside or facebook group "it's my first game". Me included. Market is too saturated and pricey. Do we actually know what it's selling publicly though?

[@EBHomeMovies]

I didn't buy it for the same reason I haven't purchased a NiB game since 2020. Price. Should I say it again? Price.

[@brianhouck9168]

I went with a pro for my route but for home/collector I'd be out for sure.

[@kennynunez6792]

Most of the discretionary income people had is now gone. There are no more bailouts, stimuls checks, or unemployment goodies to use. Throw in a pandemic, inflation, interest rates throught the roof, AND the return of the Studen Loans; you now have conditions that cannot sustain the cost of a new pinball game, at any price. I love this hobby but my family comes first.

[@KevinB-n9p]

Great timing on this video. Absolutely agree on Marvel fatigue, and the price point. Would be nice if Stern would revisit pricing, and perhaps with other viable options out there for (CGC, Spooky, ect) folks maybe this will indeed move the dial for pricing moving forward. On the flip side, if Venom doesn’t do well overall moving on to the next machine feels more realistic in the end I suppose. We shall see. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@elsquibbs]

The fan layout turned me off first. Even if I loved it, the price is simply a dealbreaker.

[@michaeljkasnter]

Bond/Both Bonds/60-th are absolutely phenomenal pinball machines!!! I could play only these 2-games for the rest of my life and be happy!!!

[@GuitarsAndSynths]

brutally hard though for a beginner! Hate the artwork on the pro version top board. Wish it had better artwork. Game is so-so. Limited edition looks good but too expensive!

[@2sunnydaze]

$5000 dearer than Godzilla LE here in Australia, all time high price increase by Stern just the market was stabilising.

[@djkurtz92]

Venom is very plain and average. Played it at Pintastic and was very underwhelmed. Foofighters is waaaay better. And I’m not a music pin guy or a foo fighters super fan. No comic book guy but it you swapped the layouts I would love the venom. Layout sucks that’s really it.

[@thomask2416]

Your analysis is spot on, but of course only time will tell. I believe another factor is that Elwin is next.

[@CasperInkyMagoo]

Every hit you take from an enemy should reduce flipper power until you can’t possibly fight back and you lose your ball.

[@brunogaspar3977]

Great video! Just finished watch…you nailed it, those are the reasons

[@dondon4720]

People aren't buying it because the price increase, you get way more from a deadpool for the same price.... IMHO

[@JackT_Music_on_Vinyl]

I am amazed that distributors can make anything back on those 7k to 10k machines. If it's a finance game (lease to own) and you never really "buy" it, I suppose you could operate at a profit. But the leasing co or bank needs to unload it at some point.

[@stevendesmond2685]

Mark my words Godzilla is going to be the peak of modern pinball

[@shabazz18]

Godzilla is the most overrated game of all time.

[@skippychurch2965]

Godzilla is incredible and matching that level is going to be basically impossible.

[@DoktaC4ibby]

Well I'll say this, I said the same exact thing about Iron Maiden when that came out and now, Godzilla makes that game look prehistoric. I think there's still a ways to go.

[@michaeljkasnter]

2 absolutely amazing games per year!! Not 4 water downed games 🎉🎉

[@rarecoolitems]

They should remake some old solid state games from the late 70s early 80s.

[@expfighter5112]

Cary i told you a week ago about this! People got the best in the world with Godzilla, and now we expect better from stern for this price. Venom will fail like i said a week ago.

[@txag007]

I do like the game, buuuuuut I can't swing picking up two new games in a short period of time. I've got an order for Godzilla Premium and I enjoy being married to my wife. Venom is a no go for me. Edit: Man on battle mode it would be cool if an opponent's attack could cause a flipper to go to say 75% or like 25% power or no ability to trap a ball making it more challenging to fight.

[@tjp8663]

They could have stuck any theme on this game. I feel stern had this playfield layout design for a while and they just drew a theme out of a hat. It still looks fun to play though

[@lucky6666]

This doesn't seem to be true based on interview. Brian Eddie is on record saying he tried something new, iterated, and was surprised and happy by the results. Sure part of layout design can be done without theme but part of it was done with theme in mind. Code is 100% themed. Making the layout feel like the theme is nice though but not many pins at all do it. Just parts of the layout if anything... for GNR layout is very on theme I think but can't think of many. Robocop? 😈

[@JeffYPbPr]

I just want a godzilla, stranger things and JP premium. That's it. THATS IT. LETS START A FUND FOR ME CARY

[@happygilmore5591]

I personally am very excited about Venom and have an LE on order 🤷🏻‍♂️if others aren’t excited that’s fine. I will happily add it to my collection.

[@happygilmore5591]

I do agree that the pricing has gotten ridiculous especially considering that these machines come WITHOUT guards, cheap plastic figures, non illuminated holes, no side armor, average bands, cheaper speakers that are non illuminated, and overall basically bland! The mod market is booming bc these companies put out basic pins YET CHARGE AN EXTREMELY HIGH PRICE (even the LE’s) and you have to go out and spend another 2-3k to make your machine really nice. I am new to buying pins but have 16 with 3 on order (Deadpool Premium, Galactic Tank Force Signature Edition and Venom LE) for a total of 19 pins once i receive the 3. Most of my pins are the premium or LE with a pro and some older pins (Star Trek Next Gen, Indiana Jones, Dracula BSD, X’s & O’s, Xenon, Austin Powers, Avengers Blue, etc) I am already sizing up cost versus product and frankly it’s not good. The pins are so cool and fun but then you look at the mods and the prices and to have a really stacked game it cost you 10k+ did I mention this is a loaded out pro model? Not a premium with mods!

[@tomceckitti5342]

We wont see Stern price drops until the Elwin games start to show a downward trend.

[@CaryHardy]

which may never happen...

[@nicoy3k]

Guarantee you the next Elwin title sells less than Godzilla

[@tomceckitti5342]

@@nicoy3k I agree, based on the current popularity of it. But....... if its Jaws..... Its def ending up in my collection.

[@glennhabas776]

Anyone believe there is a chance in hell Stern, or any manufacturer, is going to drop their prices? The prevailing wisdom with inflation is what goes up rarely goes down. I could see them adding more to the games, but that’s about it.

[@robertmachen4364]

I got a call on an LE Venom. I declined You had the motherlode of machines released back in March/April that claimed people's $$$. It is now August and I think between that and an impending Elwin release next year Venom is sandwiched in a real bad spot. Market has declined and prices have just continued to go up. Money grab by Stern. I think people have had enough.

[@stefaanalen7382]

stern and jjp owners are over the 70 i see no passion no new mech in the 80s you got special things like a head that talks to you in funhouse now i see nothing special prices to high you can see the beginning of the end even used top games dont sell ohh ohh bad times for them on the way you can see this from far away

[@joeb3008]

Games are just too expensive to even consider unless they are completely 100 on theme, art, toys, shots, music and callouts . And let’s not forget, Sterns are kind of cheaply made. Easy pass otherwise. Prices have to come down to earth because even Wick, Jaws, BTTF won’t do it for me in this inflation high recession era.

[@chadcowan8130]

It seems to me that Stern pumped the price too much on all models based on the covid/post covid crazed market. Everything was selling so high that flippers were able to buy about anything and flip for a profit. Stern had to see all the flipping and think they were leaving money on the table. Now the market is constricting a bit and the decreased demand is a going to lead to lower prices. Makes me curious if Stern will have to lower prices at some point. This may be that turning point.

[@chadcowan8130]

Me now getting to the point when Cary says "Maybe this is the turning point" right after I made the same comment. hahaha great minds!

[@SG25]

I was in. For now I'm out. Def in the camp of need to try it first before buying.

[@BeTheBallDanny]

I'm likely getting an LE, this game looks FAST as heck...and I love fast games

[@goodgameslover]

Prices are getting really stupid. I bought my first LE which was a tron Le, for 5800 dollar. My last one was a star trek LE for 7800 dollar. I stopped then, my limit was reached which i was willing to spend. If prices where around the star trek LE i would have bought more pins like Godzilla etc... But greed is a ugly habit of man sadly.