Why Pokkén FAILED

Remember when Pokémon made a straight up fighting game? Because I do.
Thanks for watching!
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Intro - @oldboihungry6374
#pokemon

[@Pharrow]

This video took an odd turn. After a short bit on the actual title premise, you veered into a bit of a rant that practically outlines how to make an even less commercially viable Pokémon fighting game. The creativity it took to incorporate the monsters they did was super fun to see, and introducing the game to my people is always a joy because watching them latch onto different ones is interesting. I think there’s a lot more to be had when you do expand a fighting game beyond the fighting type and the while their formula wasn’t perfect (among other things, like the menu clutter and how they handled assists) it was certainly worth experiencing.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

While I appreciate your comment and accept any and all feedback. There are a few things I will say in rebuddle. I believe the roster segment is as important to the overall narrative because it shows that it’s possible to create a roster of Pokémon that have the potential to really shine in the right spotlight. The fighting type is often times overlooked and this is a perfect time to show off many of them, and make some new fans of them. Many pokemon I spoke of hardly get any spotlight. This could be that chance. The roster in the base game, as fun as it could be, felt disjointed and messy to me. Using a slew of Pokémon of the same type would have forced them to get more creative than they did. I gave it a strong theming, that I think that the Pokémon company could have continued with onto other game genres. And finally in terms of finances I think that Blazekin and Lucario are popular enough to carry the spinoff in terms of general pokemon fans. I don’t think many people picked this game up just because Charizard was in another game. And if the overall fighting only rule works the way I wanted it to it would have made a stronger meta game and the 2nd life that would give it would’ve gone a long way.

[@flameggyoshi2719]

I'mma be honest,this rebuttal doesn't sit too well with me. Mainly because by expanding towards other typings,they ultimately had to experiment & diverse the Unique movesets of every character. Some prime Examples being Suicune, Darkrai, Croagunk, and Braxien. Having these characters duel & seeing their Movesets be Designed & visualized so uniquely (And Powerfully) Regardless of Typing made the Roster feel Genuinely special. Hell even the Currently developed Fan game Pokémon Close Combat is taking inspiration having their Paldea entry being Great Tusk. Despite this video being a review about Pokken, it didn't take much account about the community, Gameplay,Flaws (Outside your gripe about the Roster,which still feels backwards being honest),Story, Etc. This video just feels like a more restricted & lesser intriguing version of Thorgi's Arcade Roster Build for Pokken 2 & It's sucks cause This honestly had the opportunity to share more light on Pokken, for it being a Underrated Gem. For all it's flaws whenever it be from Character Balance or the RNG matchmaking, be Joys such as the Soundtrack & actual gameplay scheming

[@DanMarinaraMan]

@@flameggyoshi2719 I disagree that having more types forced creativity. Quite the opposite, keeping it simple and playing with only one type and only being able to expand out with dual types and certain moves is more interesting to me. The roster was the largest section because that is and always will be the biggest and easiest way to get people into fighting games. And I did tackle other things in this video, albeit in shorter length.

[@flameggyoshi2719]

@@DanMarinaraMan Never said it was forced; Cause they honestly could had done your exact idea; But they knew that Pokémon is a Diverse franchise w/ all different types of favorites. It'd be Genuinely disappointing to many fans if the only dominant type in the game was Fighting types. And besides, The Typings & advantages were never even the focus of the gameplay scheme or the Roster's purpose

[@flameggyoshi2719]

Frankly I think the actual roster was never even considered a Evident downside even for Arcade Pokken. Despite not having Greninja or Infernape for Pokken's overall update cycle between all 3 versions, the game is still fun as hell. And the Pokémon we were given (Regardless of their type),still showed a lot of Unique qualities both in their moves & personality. Now of Course the Roster infinitely will be important in any & all Fighting games,but I just really wished you went more in depth on the other qualities of Pokken. If you wanted to make a video on Pokken for the specific purpose of a Roster Rebuild,you could've just rebrand the video as that instead of hastily listing the other aspects of Pokken as a whole & just unexpectedly have a Roster build for the rest of it. Not saying your video is bad by any means,but I just would be lying to myself if I didn't say that some of your ideas are a HUGE stretch in both content & execution for Pokken's Identity; and the Rather questionable structure of this video. I hope this doesn't give any ill will,but these are my thoughts. Nothing more or less. Besides all of this is indeed subjective 💯

[@BlackRaveBow]

I think if they had 25 fighting types and Machamp being the face of the franchise, it would fail. Pokemon needs its iconic Mon front and center but I like that they really diversified the roster.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

In my opinion if they didn’t keep milking the same ones there would be more icons to choose from. Therefore it would work out in the long run.

[@MrNovascar]

I do like the phase shift system. I get that its a bit messy to build a game with both systems in mind but it filled its purpose. Firstly, it made the game unique. Its a horrible mentality as a game developer to just make "Insert game that already exist" but with a different skin will sell and most importantly KEEP selling. Even with Pokemon. Second, it resets to neutral. Especially if you want a game to be accessible to a casual audience, you want to prevent a situation, where one good player wins by hitting one interaction and keep the pressure up infinitely or worse case scenario does a zero to death combo. Thats why games like GGS or DBFZ have "Burst". And if the roster choice was the only other reason why people didn't like the game, then they probably don't deserve a sequel. Why limiting your options? There are so many creative pokemon in the game and you can't replicate this by being racist to all non-fighting types (sarcasm here with my extreme choice of words, but thats basically what it is). Darkrai's weird dimension rifts, Gengar's teleport shenanigans, Decidueye's flying stance, Empoleon's ice sliding, Aegislash's stances, Sceptile's seed traps... If you want a fighting game where all your fighters are just punching and kicking, then you miss so much potential. We talk about fantasy creatures with all sorts of powers. A Karate-Pokemon is the most boring inclusion ever, just play any other fighting game and will find your "wrestler" and "Boxer" and "weird break dance fighter". Your reasoning goes down to "its cool" or "iconic". Slow, fast or "slashy" fighting styles are not enough to forge a coercive moveset. You could at least try so put characters into stereotypes like zoners(which only kicklee could fill btw) or mention some "specialties" what a character would make him unique or interesting. Which "attacks" would they use?

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Few counter points. 1. As I said in the video, the fighting-only idea works if every type got their own game showcasing their speciality. 2. I don’t know a copy-past of another game with a Pokémon skin. Not all 2d fighters are copy’s of each other, just because this has a gimmick to differentiate itself doesn’t immunize itself from that argument either because it’s plays like a lesser Tekken. 3. The intention of the video wasn’t going to be 100% about the roster, it ended up being more fun of a topic to talk about so it got highlighted more. Maybe one day I’ll delve into full movesets for every Pokémon I chose here. The purpose for that section was to show a cohesive set of pokemon that are already fighting type, and it’s a fighting game. Ergo a clever concept for a roster. I’m sorry if you saw the characters I chose and can’t imagine show a Primeape would fight different than a Hitmontop.

[@MrNovascar]

@@DanMarinaraMan 1.: So you're not only ruining one game, but 18 games. Neat. There are only a few games that would work with this kind of restriction. A farming game with only plant types would need to fully focus on the plant-growing aspect. No farm animals like miltank, no Mudsdale, no Tauros, no Combee. You can maybe make an Abzu-like underwater exploration game, because 99% of all candidates would be water types, but most times, you just restrict yourself to a less complete experience. 2.: Not a Tekken expert, but didn't know Tekken had 3D-Phases and Assists. Maybe I phrased that badly, but I never said, all 2D fighters are clones of each other. I wanted to say, if you have a unique IP in your game, use its unique aspects. If I like to play as a karate-dude, I have plenty of options. If I want to fight as a flying and fire-breathing dragon, not so much. 3.: Yeah not 100%? Its just 2/3 of your video and with the suggestion to cut the phase shift your only two points. Oh, I can imagine how these would fight different, but different isn't the same as interesting. YOU made a video, were YOU claimed that YOU know how to form a better roster, so YOU should show YOUR superior design skills. And "slashy" isn't convincing. Fighting types in a fighting game is not "cohesive". Its a pokemon game. Use Pokemon, they all fight. Most of us grew up with the anime and they even made a Metapod fight by letting it sling upwards and crash down like meteor. They didn't restrict themself to only "natural fighters", but used the specialties of each pokemon to create a compelling scene and made each and every pokemon shine at least once. The world of pokemon is diverse and so should be every game. To make a example, I suggest Seviper as a new fighter. It would switch between two stances, with head or tail being in front. Moves would slightly change depending on the stance, the part being in front would be faster(since it has less distance to traverse) and they could combo into specific other moves by changing stances. You could also go for a status component, where the bites add a poison debuff and the tail gets benefits when the opponent is poisoned(based on moves like Venom Drench and Venoshock or the ability merciless)

[@Bezaliel13]

@@MrNovascar 1, What would be the insect game? What would be the Fairy? Wait, would dragons get a Spyro platformer? Hehe, this was not a good video tbh.

[@YourButHed]

There’s an inde 2D fighting game called Pokémon close combat that has only fighting types if that’s what you’re looking for

[@herothemain]

3:18 you really start cooking in this video! Loving all the ideas for different spin offs and I wasn’t expecting you to build your own roster. This is an instant classic my friend 🔥

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Thank you so much! Building game rosters have been an idea I’ve had for a long time so I decided to give it a pseudo test run in this video. Glad you enjoyed!

[@herothemain]

@@DanMarinaraMan I would absolutely love to see more :)

[@tokyoclermont4128]

this was actually such a great idea, i loved it !

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Thank you so much!

[@Ramie0Cat]

i think only having a fighting type roster is way limiting. i see pokken of having the idea of an actual real time pokemon battle like in the anime without the type advantage aspect (they don't seem to matter too much in the anime anyway(until it does))

[@untillthat]

I think this game had a lot of potential, but it felt like it was holding back on some major additions to their rosters and gameplay. They could've included matches in the style of smash so it wouldn't be the same old 1v1 format that gets old with a lot of fighting games. There was a lot left to be desired, but it's not a terrible game.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

No, it’s definitely not a bad game. There’s just a lot of things it can improve on, both big and small.

[@Dragoonking17]

Honestly, I disagree with most of what you said. I think the transition between a 2D and 3D fighter was greatly done. In a fighting game community, everyone has their preferences but there are only very few people who really hate the other thing. And additionally there are pokemon who shines in the 3D sections while other shines in the 2D parts. So you will naturally have a main that fits your preferred playstyle. And the mixed pokemon types were awesome and completely made sense. Pokemon is already all about battle. Fighting type doesn't mean it is the only type that can fight, it just means it specializes in a certain type of fight. I think the reason why this game failed was because it is Nintendo exclusive. In fighting games, most people prefer to use specific controllers. And you can't use those on the Wii U or the Switch. Additionally the assist mechanic felt really out of place.

[@a.j7810]

Have you heard about close combat? It is a fangame that it is literally this, a pokemon fighting game with just fighting types. And between the ones that you have said it is literally the whole rooster of characters unless for: scrafty and toxicroak (but you said their prevos lol) , medicham, mienshao and gen 8 and 9 mons (some of the funniest additions by the way, falinks, galarian zapdos and freaking great tusk are crazy on a game like this)

[@DanMarinaraMan]

I hadn’t heard of it before making this video, but it does seem pretty interesting!

[@jasonwilliams3406]

That was a great game and needed more storyline

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Fighting games were with a story mode that in which are the only ways to unlock the characters are the best!

[@tannermccollum7060]

They should've made it more like Climax heroes

[@JacksonWalter735]

I played the hell out of this game back in elementary school

[@Pharrow]

God, I’m old.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

By the time this game started getting rumored I was already in High School, so I also feel a little old haha!

[@GamesAndAnimes]

I love the game as it is and to answer the title of the video, Pokken failed, because of lacklustre singleplayer modes. The story mode is terrible and the daily challenge is nice, but not the eye catcher and also only added to the deluxe edition (Switch). The roster is totally fine and with over 1,000 Pokemon's impossible to satisfy any possible buyer.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Totally true, no matter the roster hardly anyone is going to be satisfied.

[@Juan_deep]

You forgot geodude

[@DanMarinaraMan]

While that would be a wild pick, I think the lack of the fighting type keeps him out of the running. I can see an argument as to why Geodude should be fighting type tho!

[@Juan_deep]

@@DanMarinaraMan he should be both fighting and rock type. Brock used him in season 1 in the fighting dojo in the tournament. If he isnt a fighting pokemon why was he allowed to compete in a sanction fighting tournament. Case closed.

[@RedEyesKing_Yorells3]

What about greninja

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Maybe in a sequel!

[@starfucker44]

as cool as it sounds for it too only be fighting type pokemon that would be pretty lame especially for people who dont really find fighting type pokemon all too intresting and then there's pokemon like scizor who fit perfectly in this game but aren't fighting types but i get it, i too didn't necessarily want charizard in this game

[@starfucker44]

great video though!

[@starfucker44]

AND THEN THERE IS POKÉMON LIKE INCINEROAR WHO SHOULDVE BEEN ADDED INSTEAD OF DECIDUEYE, cool he got into smash bros :/ but how cool would it have been to see him in pokken

[@DanMarinaraMan]

I agree that some Pokémon make more sense than others that aren’t fighting types. I think the fighting only rule would really only work if other types did get games that suited their genre more. 18 different game genres is a lot, but it was an interesting side idea I had when this project was announced way back then.

[@christophertsongos1261]

I'd like the Pokemon Tournament game I think they should make a sequel

[@DanMarinaraMan]

I would enjoy a sequel, I think they could improve on a lot of things.

[@darkglass3011]

When they announced DLC for the game, I was completely baffled that they didn't include Greninja. Not only does it have an alternate form making it a perfect fit for the game's Power-Up mechanic, but Greninja was voted the most popular Pokémon out of the then 721 Pokémon at the time due to the XY&Z anime. It was such a waste not to include him.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Especially when it comes to DLC the more popular the better, you want people to pay specifically for one fighter it better be one people want.

[@emersonssbb]

Pokken didnt fail. All fighting games are niche and sell 1-3m. The only top selling fighting is smash thats it. Street Fighter 6 is on multiple platforms still sold only 3-4m.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Failure is a harsh term, but it’s applicable in both the Pokémon fandoms eyes, and how the professional scene didn’t take off.

[@emersonssbb]

@@DanMarinaraMan Smash ultimate sold 20m-30m doesnt have a professional scene either. Nintendo just doesnt like their games having professional scene. The only games that have professional scene are Pokemon mainline and Splatoon i think.

[@robw3610]

I think I more or less agree with you as to why it probably failed to catch on, but strongly disagree that the roster should have been kept to just fighting Pokemon. As someone who bought and enjoyed both the Wii U and Switch versions of the game, I would have defiantly not have if Machamp was the face of it... I honestly dont see anything wrong with the game's roster, and kind of viewed it as if Pokemon battles were more realistic. Honestly, I really think they probably should have just kept it as a 2D fighter and focused on polishing that aspect rather than trying to be both an arena fighter and 2d fighter.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

That’s fair. The whole roster felt messy to me. And sticking to one type made it the easiest to clean it up.

[@Bundeskaiser]

No Medicham? No Conkeldurr? And I think Wrestler Outfit Pikachu can be included, despite not being a Fighting type. I never had this game so I actually don't know much about it. But I agree that the selection of fighters was a bit weird. But I doubt that the available fighters would be a reason for the failure of a game.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

Yeah I’ve never really liked those 2 so when cuts had to be made those were first to go. Wrestler Pickachu is a pretty fun choice I will admit. The thing with the roster is that with a stronger theming. The dev team couldn’t have a stronger baseline and the fighting game community could have given it a second life.

[@Rexred09]

I remember being hell pissed off when they added Croagunk instead of Greninja. I still want Greninja in the game. I hope they make a sequel with him. Luckly they did have my second favorite pokemon, Scizor, and I still loved this game to death.

[@DanMarinaraMan]

I wonder if they avoided both Greninja and Incineroar because they didn’t want too many smash crossovers.

[@Rexred09]

@@DanMarinaraMan Maybe, but i still feel like Greninja still should have gotten in just due to his sheer popularity. And that Incineroar should have gotten in due to literally being perfectly designed to fit in a fighting game. Plus they have so much moveset potential.