Why Pros DON'T Use GODOX in 2024- The Numbers Don't Lie

Since the previous video there have been a lot of good questions and comments on the video I previously made here • GODOX Is REFUSED By Pr...
So lets take a deep dive into why pro photographers use Profoto, broncolo and Briesse over the likes of Neewer and Godox.
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[@TinHouseStudioUK]

If you want a more PRO PRO look at photography rather than the youtube look, head over to my Patreon www.patreon.com/tinhouse

[@ralphberrett8485]

I had these conversations with beginning photographers so you made me smile. Part of the issue is that so few new photographers do not understand exposure. They tend to rely on the camera to make the decisions for them so they run to auto systems like Godox. I started as a film shooter in 1983 then worked as a photojournalist/sports shooter. My first pro body was the Nikon F2. I ended up buying a Norman strobes 20 years ago and I am been still shooting them I do own a Godox for product shots and hair light. I live 300 miles from the nearest rental house. My kit with backgrounds will fit in the boot of a car. I will also use the Nikon Creative Light system. I can buy a used Nikon SB-800 for about $60-80. I had new photographers tell me that I needed the latest and best cameras and lenses. But I point out that the latest 70-200mm f/2.8 will run $2500 while my Nikkor 80-200mm AFS f/2.8 costs $350 used. Repairing the newest lens costs $500 to repair while my lens I will just replace it.

[@jasonbodden8816]

There's no such thing as an auto system. There are strobes with TTL capability but you don't have to use the feature. You can just shoot it Manual. @@ralphberrett8485

[@global001]

I think a lot of the issue here is you saying that Pro's dont use Godox in 2024. With all due respect, it's simply not true. A pro photographer is a commercial photographer getting paid by clients for professional shoots. You however define pro photography simply as your 4 big shoots a year when you rent stuff. That is just the high end of pro photography but its not the only pro photography that exists. Other professional commercial photographers who are getting paid by clients for professional work and do use Godox aren't less professional because they dont use the same kit as you. It's just a bit elitist.

[@xyupizdagovno]

True. He's just an a&&hole.

[@lightingbryan]

Does every professional photographer need 200k+ worth of lighting equipment? I think not. You got blasted for your video because making claims for an entite industry when you have a high end niche, but provide the information as if its ALL pros in all situations is dishonest. Why not have a video explaining when it makes financial sense to the photog. I can nane dozens of examples where your math doesn't add up due to other types of photography.

[@janwillembakker5654]

Some years ago, I bought three Godox AD600PRO lights. The more modern battery type. They are a good investment. I bought spare batteries and the cable extended flash heads with them so you can mount the power unit on the bottom of your stand and get the center of gravity down and prevent toppling over. They have decent proportional pilot lights. A great setup for people photography. Go with all the diffusors. No cables to fall over; plenty of power.

[@tcphoto]

In my thirty year career, I take pride in finding clean used gear and rarely buy new. Every piece of my Profoto Pro and Acute kits were bought used or traded for. I'm still shooting with a couple 5DIV's and EF lenses that produce images that my clients approve of and would rent a higher megapixel kit if required. I call it Business 101, if you buy gear to impress others then you don't understand the concept.

[@jamesg7734]

My gear is Godox based around a couple of DP600 III. Value wise - as has been said, it’s great. This week I’ve picked up a Broncolor Pulso pack with 2 heads. Cost less than the Godox because it’s probably as old as me! But you can see the build quality difference. Benefits for me so far - 1) weight. Small heads on boom arms that are easy to adjust. 2) modelling light are super powerful. 3) Joule output. Means I can try more things.

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Good choice!

[@poolv]

My local (Brisbane) photography hire shop has only Godox lighting for hire.

[@lumilikha]

This is great to know. I'm not the target market (I'm a Godox user), but an eyeball on this side of the industry is great to have. Thanks!

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

There are lots of different types of pro photographer. I live in Cumbria, we don’t jet job or even the opportunity to get jobs of the type you shoot. I was until covid a professional photographer I shot headshot and portraits along with high volume shoots. Some of us don’t actually want the huge shoots, we have different priorities and goals in life. I cannot afford assistants and most of set ups are very similar so for my business model is very different to yours. I’m not disagreeing with your logic for your business model but that’s the point, your business model isn’t the same as everyone else’s. Godox works well for mine, they’ve paid for themselves many times over and they are always on hand and ready for any shoot I’m asked to do. Or was asked to do when I was still full time. My point is more about the title. Pros DO shoot Godox too. But there are many variations of pro and one size certainly doesn’t fit all.

[@memcrew1]

You obviously own and use Godox.

[@ThatMicro43Guy]

@@memcrew1 I use, and have used, all sorts of equipment. I’m not particularly a Godox fan boy and in reality didn’t disagree with anything which was said. He hit the nail on the head. But the title suggests that pros wouldn’t shoot Godox and by implication any lesser type brand and that simply isn’t true. I shot pro for years and made a nice income from it but tended to shoot quality but less expensive gear much of which is now 20-30 years old, still working and fixable too just as his is. I just get concerned that anyone aspiring toward a career in photography is put off by feeling they must only have the best to succeed.

[@memcrew1]

@@ThatMicro43Guy gotcha!

[@miguelruna5322]

I was going to invest in canon R6ii but then I saw your video about renting and I saw that I would need to do at least ~75 jobs to justify it (which I don't do in a year, as photography is a side hustle) VS paying the renting price (friends rent me theirs for 30€/day). Always love to hear your perspective on gear/investment, really nice stuff. Already saved me a bunch of money 👌👌

[@35259edgarboudaher]

A used R6 or a even an R8 might fit you better. The R6ii is better for video.

[@miguelruna5322]

​@@35259edgarboudaher Indeed, some used gear is at a pretty good value for money nowadays 👌

[@ecookman]

As somebody who is freelanced in photography for about a decade..... I keep an extremely old budget set up for my own personal use (including film stuff) ..... and anytime I have a paid shoot I rent stuff out. Nobody can tell if I've shot something on a T3/t5 with medium quality glass or a 1D with the top of the line glass over social media. Only now that my recent career change intersects photography into my main line of work I am looking at buying new equipment (it will pay for itself within 2 years). Previously for the two or three jobs I would maybe pick up a year it made no sense to spend 10 to 15 grand on my own kit when I can rent the same equipment for like 200 bucks a day. People like to be snobbish and be like oh I have the new shiny and Best Equipment and that makes me special.... it really fucking doesn't... whatever gets you the results at whatever price point makes sense it is the best way in my opinion

[@LoFiAxolotl]

this is for anyone who doesn't shoot Commercial stuff probably the most important comment ever... clients absolutely cannot tell the difference... they don't give a sh** what camera something was shot on... I had a Portrait Studio for over 3 decades... most of the time pictures were shot on APS-C or on Film@@ecookman

[@Twobarpsi]

I shoot on a used 5D MKII that I bought for $350. Takes AMAZING pictures.

[@wilcurran3377]

Valid. However, we don't all live in central London, nor do all "pros" practice commercial studio photography. An hour drive to my nearest rental house means the time and cost make it logistically prohibitive (ridiculous really) to rent. Keeping in mind it'd be 4hrs of travel to pick up and return the equipment. Additionally, the cost of Broncolor vs Godox in other parts of the world (Australia in my case) makes the latter far more compelling. $5,350 AUD (at the time of writing) for a Godox P2400, vs $40,360 AUD for a Satos 3200.. I could buy 8!!! P2400's for the price of one Satos... in fact my entire lighting kit, including modifers, scrims, stands.. the whole kit and kaboodle could be had for the price of one Satos 3200. As for reliability, I've had the same Godox lights for my entire 2 decade career, so anecdotally I'm extremely confident in their products. I think you should've prefaced this video with "If you're a studio photographer living in London". Because if you're hiring a studio it makes perfect sense to fill it with hire equipment, but if most of your work is location, perhaps not.

[@andrestatter4412]

Can you make a video on how your survive with 4 shoots a year. Though really don't agree with big statement from niche perspective. I would still buy Godox or Yongnuo 685 flash. Does the job. :)

[@lightingbryan]

Ive considered unsubscribing multiple times. Reason is because I respect your opinion. But its so often shared from your own perspective without explanation that your perspective is only for your niche. There is not many photogs that need 100s of thousands of dollars worth of gear. But when you mention "Pros" dont use Godox is utterly FALSE and you know it. Maybe its the attention you like? The negative comment section drives views. I believe in sharing insights with the next generation of photogs. But i would never suggest photogs to follow you unless you ABSOLUTELY do exactly the same work, because many of your videos aren't helpful. A video about when renting is more affordable for a pro is more helpful to the general photog. Unless you are just talking to a photog that needs 200k worth of equipment. But you often hide those important details. I know because im an old timer in the industry

[@TheShelbinator3000]

It's a GIVEN that he is speaking about his own commercial niche. Has he ever done a video about shooting a wedding? No. It's YOUR job as the audience to decide whether it applies to your or not. He's not going to start every video off with a venn diagram of every kind and level of photographer under the sun so that YOU don't get offended.

[@lightingbryan]

​​@@TheShelbinator3000The first sentence of this video is " I did a video of why Pros don't choose Godox." This is false on so many levels. You can't speak to an entire industry and claim with a broad brush that Pros don't use Godox. Just because his profession high end commercial his channel is not niche like his profession. His channel is full of general information and calls upon his experience sometimes. Bottom line. Pros don't use Godox is unequivocally false. In fact I would say one of the only niches that strictly doesn't use Godox is ultra high end studios that rent 200k of gear. So it's misleading

[@lightingbryan]

Also this is not the first instance of him sharing content that is only helpful for niche , passing it off as "this is how pros do it, I'm a pro. Then getting called out for it. 😂 It's a trend and I'm sure he does it because it gets engagement. Personally I see it as tacky

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Yes this Chanel is just about what I do, know and how I work. We are planning a series where we bring pros who have other jobs on though, just working out logistics atm and if I merge it with this commercial channel or make a new one

[@TheShelbinator3000]

@@lightingbryan clickbait-y titles are so part and parcel for KZbin that it’s become a joke that basically everyone is in on, author and audience. Once you learn this, you’ll probably be less miserable.

[@BrentODell]

Most of the the working photographers I know are portrait and wedding photographers, and(to the best of my knowledge) own all of their own gear. I don't think renting is as practical in smaller cities/towns, since we don't have multiple, local places to rent gear.

[@graxxor]

Not only that but if you have a busy schedule full of small jobs, renting gets old real quick. Especially when clients request last minute changes etc. If like Tin you do 4 major 100kUKP jobs a year,l where schedules get locked in and locked down, renting is a no brainer.

[@cmichaelanthonyimages2197]

Very good info. As a rule, most Photographers are the poorest business people because they let their art overtake the business end of their business and many fail, not to mention they pay them selves before their business expenses. I always made shure I did not overextend myself, and my expenses came first. I never bought for the sake of saying" I own it".

[@EdAb]

All true. Most important, is the individual photographer's use case/business model. I only bought 3, two head Broncolor kits because: 1. In 2016 when I needed powerful, battery powered location lighting, the only options were Profoto and Broncolor (Elinchrom options were not powerful enough) and Godox didn't offer an option. 2. The were no rental options available to me in my city of 1 million. 3. I work 100% on location. If rentals had been available, it still would not have been an option, because most often clients can only give a few days notice and I often have to travel with the gear sitting for a few days before I can put it into action. Such time constraints/factors make renting cost prohibitive. Cheers

[@davidweibel]

Love the way you explain things from a business standpoint. Please keep this kind of content coming!

[@NeonCucumber]

All I think that's needed for this video to really be accurate is to better define "pro". This is like saying "why pro drivers don't drive honda". Lol a pro LIMO driver may drive a limo... and a pro uber driver may drive a Honda. If both drivers are pros (a driver who is paid to drive for a living)... then we've gone totally wrong. A wedding photographer who does it for a living... is a Pro... I agreed with everything you say in the video... as it's clear by context what you believe to be a "pro" photographer... but I really think without defining that more specifically... it kind of doesn't mean anything lol.

[@brucemacneil]

Interesting - and solid advice applicable to many people. Many of my friends are full time commercial doing daily 'big-ish' jobs. Most folk starting out - and really everyone is starting out because that is all relative - would benefit from having a couple of old lights and a few good friends. If one of the friends wants to style food or product and another really likes retouching - even better. Friends - because help and collaboration help with learning and experimentation and sharing equipment. Old lights - or new Godox. Godox is really great because the smaller stuff is inexpensive enough to allow someone to shoot with one light and learn balance and colour and composition and such. The AD100 is priced low enough you can get one for around $100 used. Practically disposable. If a person is keen on the "bare head" highly specular look - try an old Elinchrom EL-500 - really cheap. $50??? A set of gear cheap enough to avoid marital strife and good enough to get the feet wet. Should that person's portfolio develop to a point where they actually have a client: rent everything. If it flies, floats or flashes: rent it.

[@DonaldOfEarth]

This was actually very helpful in terms of the business logic. Thanks!

[@cianleach9880]

So happy I stumbled upon you, I’d love to see a breakdown of the business model. I understand that everyone’s market is different however, hearing that only 30% can go towards operating costs is tremendously helpful in trying to build a sustainable business.

[@JamesBrownPhotographics]

One major discrepancy in your argument that must be considered, not every photographer lives in a centre where they can rent. Smaller and I mean under 1 million in population cities, don't have rental houses down the street so owning the gear you need is a necessity.

[@terryhope2074]

Started at a London company in the 80's and Bowens was the standard (OK Strobe was the standard at Holborn studios where I started as an assistant - on average a couple of assistants died worldwide each year because they didn't know how to use them!) Sorry to see Bowens go because of Chinese competition. I still have a couple of mono blocks that are 20 odd years old and have recently been repaired by my local repair shop - just a couple of dry solder joints. Great for lower paying filler jobs. Rental houses take on the responsibility to ensure the gear is serviced and ready for use, tagged and tested, which is a cost many people don't factor into a purchase. Gear rarely makes money, and when mentoring photographers, the first thing I bring to the table is to have a business plan and not to focus on shiny things. I hope your good advice is getting through to the next generation of creatives - all sound advice. Thanks

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

We use Holborn from time to time. Love it there. And yes Bowen’s are solid

[@terryhope2074]

Great to hear Holborn is still going - My first gigs there were with Chalkie Davies for the Face Magazine. Boy do I feel old! Got to see some great artists though - Elvis Costello, The Damned, Annie Lennox.....

[@shanevassar9884]

You say you have about “4 big jobs a year “ what is big to you? How many days are you shooting for that “big job” ? I would love a break down in a video of what a big job is for you. From you daily routine, travel cost/time, etc

[@FatherFamilyFriends]

Sounds logical. I just cannot wait until I get to this level. Eyes and ears open here.

I work in Kenya there might be other brands here but Godox is the way to go if I need a part, and it's still VERY expensive.

[@TasteofTaboo]

Here in Germany you have to make a deposit for renting photo stuff. Means you rent 5 scoro packs, plus other stuff, you have to have a creditcard / creditscore that you can also buy this stuff brand new. With this photographers without a really wealthy background can not rent a kit which is 100k worth by their own.

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Yeah it’s similar here and I had to beg a rental house the first few times

[@r1chm]

@@TinHouseStudioUK This is a big misleading omission. You are able to rent because the rental place has disregarded it's policies for you. They may not do that for another "Pro". Making it not available for many "pros". Which is why Godox market share has increased in market share compared to competing brands.

[@PhotoArtBrussels]

Great explanation! All depends on the context. Cost has to be offset wisely; and when the kit is good enough; it is good enough.

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Right on

[@tommynikon2283]

Meanwhile, I’ve been shooting with NORMAN gear for the past 45 years….and NOBODY has asked, required, etc.- especially Profoto!!

[@murraykeithhayes4046]

Normans never die. And can be bought used dirt cheap.

[@PaulSaxbyPhotography]

I’ve still got my original Metz 45 CL4, that I still use and it’s in perfect working order. It’s over 30 years old and has never let me down. I liked it so much I bought 3 more, all used on eBay for less than a tenner each. Yes I have newer lights, yes I have bigger lights but I don’t think Ive had an issue with a Metz flash, so I still use them when I need them. Love the straight talking Scott. I wish others on KZbin were as honest and genuine as you.

[@gavriel_adi]

For your information, 90% of photographers today use Godox, in addition, Godox is the cheapest and the highest quality of all haha, I don't know how you got to the fact that it is the most expensive..

[@LeightonDPhoto]

90%?

[@gavriel_adi]

@@LeightonDPhoto 99%

[@TheTinnedBeanReviewChannel]

Another fantastic video, thank you Scott!

[@35259edgarboudaher]

Great information. I think what you're saying is that in the pro photography ecosystem, Godox has unproven reliability, scarce expertise, and rental availability. As a hobbyist, I own Godox Ad100, v1 and ad600BM and all that cost me about 1000$ CAN. My base equipment is great, but It wouldn't make sense to invest in pro gear for the few gigs I do per year. I rarely use my Ad600 and my R6 as it is.

[@AlbertoNencioni]

Pro gear is PRO if you pay your bills with it, otherwise is only showing off.

[@35259edgarboudaher]

@AlbertoNencioni can't pay the bills with it if you can't find it for rental for huge campains and the staff don't know how to use it. We're talking about the highest end user of photography where you don't use your own equipment. Godox i's perfectly fine for 99.99% of photographers. It is cheaper to rent the best of the best than to own and transport them yourself.

[@cloud-bytes]

Quite fascinating point on using what the assistant knows instead of Godox. In my industry it’s the same argument. Sure you can use any software you want good luck getting anyone to manage it. It’s not always the best that’s used but the best supported, or best known.

[@khanscombe619]

Brilliant! I need to learn wireless flash & come from older Pocket Wizard for personal. But on projects , not many are even familiar. They know of them but not how do you program them. What do you recommend?

[@asainareasome]

Whats the best way to practice using Broncolor or Profoto without buying it?

[@adriankrucker2159]

Always great and honest information we get here. Thanks for sharing!

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

My pleasure!

[@davelewis5661]

Excellent and pragmatic as always ........

[@carlosandreviana9448]

I purchased my lights years ago. Still using them. What a silly theory 🤣

[@james-qd8iy]

There was a time, just a decade or so ago, when people used to say, “Professionals don't use Sony. The reasoning was that only Canon and Nikon cameras would be in the photographers' seats at the Olympics. In reality, more than 99.9% of camera users will never shoot in the Olympic photographer's seats, but this logic was a powerful advertising ploy to maintain the market share of Canon and Nikon SLR cameras. This guy's “Pros don't use Godox” sounds like the same as “Professionals don't use Sony” back then, and it reminds me of the unpleasant feeling I felt at the time.

[@jasonarrandavis]

Genuine question, do you own a studio or pay rent for one on a long term basis? If so, how do you justify this when you base your model on 4 jobs a year?

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

For some reason my phone gave me a notification for this comment. Never had one before! 100% don’t need a perm studio. But, I like having a space to go to every day and it’s well within my budget as I don’t live in London. I rent mine because commercial rents are real good deal somehow compared to anything available to buy. Doesn’t seem anything like the house market

[@fellfromspace]

A fair point that just because it may sound a bit snobby or elitist, doesn't mean that it's not true. I wonder if the people that are really upset by the case you are making are losing sight of the good part of what you are saying - that renting higher end gear is not out of reach.

[@robertruffo2134]

As a last comment, I do agree that renting is sometimes better than owning and one must do careful math. I'll admit some purchases I've made were mistakes at that level. But you do forget one thing that should go into the math. Pulling out a case we know well from a shelf is less labor cost than driving out to rental house to pick up and return gear, checking through the cases, maybe waiting in line, gas to get there.... Time is money, whether yours or an assistant's. Just counting $150 of time saved per shoot (conservative) it took me 2.5 years to pay off all my Godox lights, let alone what a rental cost would have been.

[@jpdj2715]

Go Dogs, in Chinese, is called God Ox - IMO a mistranslation of Holy Cow. That's what I said, hearing the price of their professional studio pack, followed by a variant of What The Fotography. Profoto on my light modifiers looks very professional, but if you are more than two decades in this industry, you know that they took ages to get short flash duration, steady colour temperature, and flash level consistency. Recent models are OK. Problem still can be the flash tube hidden in a reflector. The Bron firm and their broncolor brand (the Germanic word "bron" means "source") have been the go-to standard since the 1970s.

[@mikeknapik6746]

Words of wisdom, thanks for the insights!

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jimjimgl3]

Agree. I've only owned Profoto Strobe (recently Aputure for continuous) for the last 20 years. And I bought nothing new, all used. And this is small kit of two packs, 4 heads and two Bx10 plus heads. When I have larger jobs I just rent from a house to supplement my gear. Kinda of like what you use for bigger jobs if the set is big. I sometimes shoot freelance for a studio owned by a large international ad agency and they poured huge numbers into purchasing gear for their studio and already they see they aren't using as much of the lighting/cameras as they imagined. For example, they bought two Cineo LED monsters that run $24K and the full time shooters don't like them but now they have to use them because they are part of their inventory and they need to rent them out to their clients. Today, with how quickly gear evolves it doesn't make too much sense to purchase lighting.

[@arsenalmob]

Weirdly enough, it doesn’t sound ”elitist” in my opinion. Just sounds brutally honest

[@aidantan]

This guy speaks facts and is not gatekeeping whatsoever. As someone from a country with nothing who worked my way up and out to NYC. I can assure you whatever other "content" photographers are not transparent or plain wrong. The "industry" is very different than what social media, social media numbers and popularity is and are.

[@robertruffo2134]

Also, in my case assistants don't touch the controller, just the softboxes, and my very standard light meter (which works the same way no matter the brands of lights). I think this is very common. There is nothing for them to "learn". The softboxes and flags and all that work exactly the same way with all lamp heads, and learning how to twist in a Bowens mount is not exactly a steep learning curve for anyone. Anyway the controller can be mastered in 5 minutes or less. They all work the same way and do the same things.

[@ChuckStJohn-205]

Following this advise will prevent you from going broke. Thanks for confirming what I've done all along. However you have a voice...I do not. So, thank you!!! :::bowing:::

[@Andrea-Zerg]

the only time i would rent a profoto is when i needed 4800w twinhead with dual Pro11 outdoors. or a pair of 18kw HMI. i actually have a question, dont you have like a head/team lead assistant that controls all the other assistants? thats what i did. he knows how i like to keep my lights (no intermal spaghetti cables like those rental profoto heads) renting makes sense because of lodgistics. we commercial photographers do fly alot.. as for godox, seriously, it ONLY takes 30s to teach new assistants how to operate.. they just need to learn how to change channel and groups. the rest of the menu settings are a 1 time setting.. sometimes the risk factor doesnt allow use of profoto or bron.. eg, near water. it is easier to decomission a ad1200pro or repair it than to have the rental house send you the bill.

[@bluehollowarts]

I work locally because I like working with small businesses who really need help. That means my budget 95% of the time is Godox. But you can bet with my larger clients when I work with them to budget Profoto or Broncolor in my fee. Choose the right tool for the job and budget. I don’t get why that makes people upset. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@marceloleitejr]

Great content as usual. Question, Do you disclose all the rental items in the invoice?

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Not as items, I think it just says equipment then a figure

[@phelix920]

👍🏾👏🏾📸 everything you say in your videos makes absolute sense. Thank you sir.

[@joseph-the-seventh]

I’m not a “pro” pro, but occasionally get paid to take photographs. I was getting ready for a shoot last week and realized the battery for my Godox AD400 was dead. Less that 2 years old. Had to buy a new one for $250. Is Godox that cheap after all?

[@joseph-the-seventh]

Also, LOL at people who get mad when people critique gear they happen to own

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Yeah deffo to be considered. But its so hard to calculate the risk of that too which is annoying as a business.

[@PhotoArtBrussels]

Do not judge quality on 1 sample. ;-) I have 6 Godox DP400III heads, 220V AC, all doing great after years of frequent use, including giving training with 20 students shooting all afternoon. The Broncolor Siros L battery is 420€; you also do not know how long it will last.

[@stvworks]

Hey, actually you can reset the battery, but it is a bit tricky to do. And it is better to charge your battery once in a month, as you may know this brand is not renowned in very high quality.

[@joseph-the-seventh]

@@stvworks I tried resetting by opening up the case and jumping the two metal dots, didn’t work.

[@semperfi-1918]

Good points. I have gotten free and cheap lighting gear. I use one for ebay. And its paid for. Later once i get things better ill work on learning how to use the lighting equiptment.

[@greenmedic88]

Because they don't do enough jobs per year. Cheaper to rent the higher end equipment, especially if they shoot on location like film productions. Transport/logistics costs alone factor in. Then wear and tear. There's a tipping point where it makes more financial sense to own, whether that be 12 shoots per year, 24 shoots per year, 50 shoots per year; whatever (local). Ball goes back into the cheaper equipment (Godox) at a certain point. Unless you do a side business renting out your studio space/equipment to pay for the high end equipment, which then begs the question are you actually doing 24, 30, 50 shoots per year? And then there's the cost to use/job ratio. A lot of lighting equipment is disposable if used for a high paying job, assuming it's Godox. Maybe that's 4 jobs before it's a write off. Maybe 10. There's a point where it's not only paid for itself; it actually made you money by saving on rentals (assuming local shoots). All depends upon individual context.

[@kiwipics4003]

CRACKING GOOD VID SCOTT! The numbers cut through all the wholly thinking! I'd rather rent and keep the difference in my pocket, than put it in the manufacturers, the accountants and IRS's pockets!

[@rickymcc8624]

One wonders if your vids are just click bait? Why pro togs don't use Godox, why I ditched Canon etc? I couldn't watch all the way through as I felt I wasn't going to get much enlightenment, see any great images or learn much to my advantage bar your opinions on kit you consider to be "pro". Granted that Bron lights are rather nice. I sold my Profoto lights as I couldn't justify that much cost (even though I could easily afford it). It should be about end results, images not kit. For the record I bought several Godox lights with my Profoto proceeds which still work just fine and had change left to go shoot things that interested me. IMO As long as kit is reasonably reliable and works for one's needs then who honestly cares? Kit is (or should be) a means to an end. I have shot lots of 'no name' flash eg Yongnuo, then Olympus, Metz, Nikon, Canon, Profoto and Godox. For continuous light I like Apurture lights nowadays. On cameras I have shot with most stuff from vintage to what's now regarded as high-end kit. Starting in the 80's with film and Olympus as an amateur, I have evolved over 40 years and know that nothing is perfect but learnt that kit obsession really doesn't help. Having owned and used many so called 'pro' cameras eg Mamiya RZ, Bronica, Nikon (10+bodies and circa 20+ lenses), Canon (borrowed) I now shoot on Sony (3 bodies and 15+ lenses) plus a phone. But all are just tools to help make the images I want. There is a lot of kit to choose from, none absolutely perfect, all with a few trade offs. But, importantly, nearly everything will work OK and most folk's limitation is typically themselves, their skill level and imagination and seldom their kit.

[@chrispeden979]

Professional Boudoir and Portrait photographer here. First I understand your argument and somewhat agree however there are some things I’d like to address 1. For your type of photo business it makes sense to rent, for businesses like mine it rarely does. 2. It sounds like rental houses are far more accessible to you. Here in the states if you aren’t in NYC, Chicago, LA, camera stores and rental houses are nearly extinct and require us to use places like borrow lenses and incur shipping and additional wait time for getting gear. 3. You keep referencing assistants, I don’t know how it is where you live but here where I live if I am hiring someone to help me they are going to know or learn how to use the equipment that I use if they want a job. Period. I don’t change my business based on what an assistant knows. That’s the wildest part for me. That’s like your bakery not making cinnamon rolls because the employee they hired only knows how to make cakes. They would either not hire that person or train them.

[@TheShelbinator3000]

The difference is that in cities like LA, your favorite assistants are working a lot and at least a few times each year, you find yourself working with some new faces. Whether they're a lighting tech, first assistant, third assistant, whatever -- they'll know how to use Profoto, with some slight direction here and there. No time to teach new equipment and brands extensively on set.

[@chrispeden979]

@@TheShelbinator3000 so these are not permanent full time assistants? That does make it more challenging

[@TheShelbinator3000]

@@chrispeden979 not many people have assistants as employees, no. At the highest level, sure.

[@tommynikon2283]

Scott- ever had problems with your rental gear? I have- like an incomplete pull of wanted gear. I prefer my own lighting- because I KNOW it’s history and NON-abuse.

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

Yes we have. It’s rare but it’s deffo happened enough for it to be something we think about at night haha

[@unclejezza]

As a commercial DoP - please dim your keylight as you look a bit hot in your videos :) Great info - enjoy your content.

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

I keep moving closer to it with each video haha

[@matthewjeffres1289]

Thanks for your truthfulness!

[@kennypringle4580]

I’m guilty of overspending. I’m only a part time photographer retired from my 36 year career. I shoot for my own small one man business. I also shoot with or for other photographers. I only make 17k or less per year. I have 2 aps-c crop sensor cameras and 2 full frame cameras. I have 18 lenses, 4 tripods, 5 heads, 3 monopods, 8 umbrellas, 6 softboxes, and a few metal reflectors/modifiers. Then there’s GODOX QS 600, ad600pro, ad400pro, 3 ad200pros, 3 V1 flashes, 8 light stands, and ……. I do think I’m guilty of being ocd.😵‍💫🤷🏻‍♂️

[@dominicwroblewski5832]

As a retired businessman I agree with you 100% Most people in the world have no idea how a business works and as a result they run into trouble because of that lack of knowledge.

[@drakestorm4691]

I just own the basic studio technique, i rent almost everytime when i travel across Europe and UK shoot. Rather I have focus on prepare, on staff, on theme, and business side. But this is only my way.

[@AlbertoNencioni]

All this is simply and only anedoctical and very, very personal. Depending on what you shoot, you customer type, your social environment, you have completely different pictures. The price/value ratio of hardware has so improved in recent years that the big numbers are not in the gear anymore. When I was young a decent camera body, a good lens and a usable light could send you to the bank for a loan: now you can buy perfectly workable gear for few hundred dollars, then shoot a couple of GOOD boudoir gigs and you have paid them with the interests - the costs of renting "branded" gear for one day in Italy is almost the same as BUYING Godox lights. This is not to say that top brands are the same as Godox, but the difference becomes really visible if you use studio lights to open coconuts. On the other side if you have snobbish customers that google the prices of your gear before looking at your images for God's sake go buy Hasselblads and Profoto and pass the cost on them...😄

[@MichaelFrederickPhoto]

I have used this barometer for my business as well, I shoot a Canon R6 for my portrait/headshot business but I use 3rd party glass as RF zooms/Primes are insane. I will rent as needed.

[@mikedfurman]

This title is VERY clickbaity and gives you way less credibility as a KZbinr IMO. Of course people got annoyed because the title is negatively approached rather than positive. You could have easily said ‘why (commercial) Pros use ProFoto’ but you chose the outrage click bait path instead. Otherwise fine enough video.

[@simon_sky]

Almost the same with film gear. Although it happens more that we hire the entire crew, not only the gear 😅 on the other hand, I am currently living in a city with really shitty rental options, way way overpriced. Sometimes 10% of the buying price/ day rate. This is why I bought some kit for those fast local jobs and for the times when you know something may brake. I guess the whole gear thing has a lot to do with frustration. I suspect people buying gear because their business isn't running, at least thats what I experienced myself in the beginning. Would love to discuss about that!

[@rogergroover4971]

It’s actually very interesting. Thanks

[@iunderstanphotography2780]

This makes sense, especially if you're using your photography income to buy your gear, rather than having a good job ans you also do photography. I friend told me about renting gear for (commercial) jobs and how he adds the rental fee. Not sure if this works with portraits and all that but the idea of renting when needed instead of buying a new body is interesting. Many photogs i know have nice gear from catching deals and finding used gems, so this makes sense. I'm still rocking out with my old Canon though i want another old body and lens. I gotta work for it

[@bjarnebuggesolvik6034]

Most pro photographers use and own Godox gear. And it works fine. Some commercial photographers have big gigs and can add the rental cost to there invoice. If a assistent can not use Godox lights I think he needs to change job. There is nothing to it. Still I would never purchase a Godox P2400 due to lack of support from Godox. I am truly enjoying your success as I have read / watched your stuff for many years. Best of luck as you move forward. You know if you or others who argue simulator would say: High end commercial photographers use Broncolor, or successfull fashion photographers use Profoto, and not argue a case that Godox falls shorts, nobody much would care. Use what you need and want. I am happy for you.

[@lighthousephoto7143]

He won't like your comment to give it more visibility, but you're bang on. There's a whole world of professional/paid work out there where one could forge a whole career around an old 5D and a Yongnuo flash, let alone all the fancy stuff. Some of these videos come across as being out of touch, like some oligarch recommending an Aston Martin over a Nissan to someone who just needs to Drive 2 miles across Liverpool every day... though driving across Liverpool isn't REALLY driving, anyway, is it?

[@sidestreetvideoproduction7278]

I love your advice. Great Videos. Where I live there is no place to rent any equipment or Kit. It would need to be shipped in and rental would be too much. I got the chance to get a used Broncolor Opus A4 and a Grafit A4 with a 1600J and 3200J head. That worked for me. I figured if you got a great deal maybe I can find one too. It worked into my business model. I could afford it and I wanted it. It's great to know that Broncolor equipment still works after all these years and that they can still be repaired. Getting something repaired is a big deal to me. I'm so glad that if I need repairs on my Grafit Kit it can be done. That makes the used equipment worth it. For me it's the convenience of having the right equipment when I need it.

[@hoseaesp6309]

Why is the lighting setup for this video so bad though, its cringe to hear someone talk about lighting equipment while their own lighting setup is quite blown out.

[@lukakoprivica]

Palpable truth. Great insight! I'd so much love to live in UK, or any normal society where photography is developed like there. Ah....

[@ScottVanManen]

I need this kind of thinking. Thanks!

[@blondmoeller]

Great video! You got a follow!

[@donaldmcleod6324]

When you say four big jobs a year, can you define that? What does a big job entail?

[@robertruffo2134]

It didn't make me angry, but I do feel that putting all pros into one box is misleading. You shoot food, and have particular needs. As someone who never shoots liquids in motion, and most often shoots on location, Godox (nothing over a 600Pro - which is cheap) works perfectly for me, BETTER than my heavier, less powerful, and with worse light emission patterns, old Profoto B1s did - there are no Profoto portable battery lights that are better actually. My Godox set has literally never been a problem. It's not about some low standard of "good enough", it's more like "There has never been a perceptible shortcoming that would make me wish I was using something more expensive." I never need to rent gear, because Godox was so cheap I own all the light sources I could ever have time to set up (models waiting around is very expensive), plus a backup. I never need more power, I have never had any issue at all with reliability other than with batteries (but I have backups which cost less than a single Broncolor rental). So... Ellinchrom, Broncolor, Profoto - owning or renting these would not, in any way, improve my work output, my work process, nothing. I'm NOT saying that some expensive modifiers do not improve output and workflow - they do, and I have some that cost me than $2k and I don't regret owning them and renting others- I'm saying that the Godox lights themselves are perfect for 100% of MY applications.

[@LoFiAxolotl]

I think the thing that makes people angry is the when you talk about Pros you're talking about Commercial Photography... Weddings Photographers... Portrait Photographers in their own studio... Kindergarden Photographers... whatever else that i just can't think off because it's 6:50am in the morning... of course a lot of them will use Godox because they usually own their own equipment... and Godox is cheaper to buy... If you rent equipment the most used equipment is usually cheaper... and Godox is a relatively new brand and not as established in Rent Houses because EVERYONE uses Profoto and Broncolor... the switch probably won't happen because there's no need for the Rent Houses to switch and therefore no need for Asses to learn them and therefore no need for Rental Houses to get them....

[@nelsonclub7722]

It isn't so much that their products are good or bad - its to do with after market care - as a Pro for 35 years I have heard many terrible stories about Godox - and I am happy to stick with my current supplier - AJ's and Broncolor - it pays off in the end

[@MartinV.]

Great Video!!

[@ZarliWin]

I mean your title is click baity, but your explanation is exactly correct for your type of work. I dont see why people get in a huff. - an amateur that owns mostly godox

[@jasonbodden8816]

I understand where you're coming from but I'm not a commercial photographer and budget is an actual concern. It makes zero sense for me to rent uber expensive brands because the work I do doesn't require it. My Godox lights are just fine for what I do. But I for sure might not rely on Godox if I were a commercial photographer.

[@ericnelson9700]

Aside from initial costs, when you have a Broncolor break down here in Bangkok, you have to send it away....to Europe. If you can afford that shipping, if you can afford to be down a pack or head or whatever for several months, good on you. I can't. Sweet gear that it is, realistically, a lower end brand is the way for a lower end pro shooter. I've no love for any one brand except the one that I can afford and get repaired easily and locally. Here in BKK it won't be Broncolor or Profoto.

[@micronet67]

Thank-you for the reality check

[@killpop8255]

I thought those battery packs (???) at the end were for taking out on location? Can't you do without and use mains electricity?

[@TinHouseStudioUK]

I think the next video is on this

[@jonfletcher147]

Did'nt realise you only live just up the road from me in Burton upon Trent :D

[@peterdrought9334]

Just had a flash synch port break on an AD200. Another nuisance that now needs to be fixed and puts the thing out of action. Moral of the story - they are cheap.....because they are not as well built. That then has consequences elsewhere due to cost and disruption. Amateurs only use their kit occasionally, and as a result will probably not be aware of these issues, but if you intend to use it day to day, they are not well made.

[@alejandroarredondo1997]

I would love it if you would translate all these talks into smaller more compact photography business side of things. Scale it down. For example I love how you do the math on ROÍ, but you’re talking 4-6 jobs a year that many of us will never see or we just are not interested in those markets. How does all this translate to your mid to high end portrait photographer? I’m not talking about mini-sessions or run and gun photographers. It those of us that want to make a good living but also not expecting to get 20k jobs.

[@corysilkenphotography308]

Oh my godox

[@blubravery]

Definitely a cold hard truth which is why I still have my D800 dslr. Would love to shoot medium format, but I have zero business reason to own a medium format. It might end up being a retirement gift. Lol

[@lupindeweir]

Pro photographer= business person who gets to take photos. That's not hard. ;)

[@thopkins2271]

I was skeptical based on the video title. I agree completely with everything that was said in the video with the caveat of there are some of us who very much need to own a large number of lights based on the type of photography our businesses specialize in. On the flip side of that...perfect color is not that important to what I'm doing, and so a half dozen Alien Bees and a decent location lighting kit of Godox stuff does everything I need it to do, for about the cost of my day rate for one day. I'll beat the shit out of them, and when they fail in a few years, I'll do it again without the headache of constantly running to the shipping center or crossing my fingers that they can overnight it for late bookings etc....

[@adamclancy3037]

This make so much sense

[@That-Kevin]

Are you gonna wear that heavy denim jacket through the summer?

[@TheDominicballard96]

If you're not in America this true. But a lot of pros use Godox and Flashpoint because it's an American brand.

[@CC3GROUNDZERO]

"...if they're actually running it as business and not as a hobby that they're pretending is their job." This necessary dose of fact probably caused some people to have a Ralph Wiggum moment.

[@danbrowning2418]

Great advice.

[@bnshk]

I am a profoto and Godox (strobe and led lights)users. I know what they can or can't do and i wouldn't say " pro" wouldn't use Godox. I am quite sure 99% of Pro who can not tell which works are created with which gears. btw, why most of your videos are 1 stop or more over Exposure with wrong color temperature ? you did that on purpose?