Why Ralsei Will Be Deltarune’s Greatest Villain (Chapter 2 Theory)

[@SwankyBox]

What do you think will happen with Ralsei?

[@talkalexis]

Here before pinned comment

[@murtymcfly]

Hope my fluffy boy *doesn't* betray me

[@themrmubark505]

In deltarune there 7 chapters and in undertale there 7 souls

[@bakoj2314]

I came to the conclusion that because ralsei was the only darkner created by the original dark fountain, the same fountain that is capable of hosting all other darkners, maybe he's compatible with all other dark worlds, so he didn't turn to stone

[@candychessie]

maybe, he'll be like flowey. betraying us at the last moment. also, if the jevil fight mentions the queen and she was the main antagonist of the next chapter, do you think something in spamton's fight will foreshadow something in the next chapter?

[@diamondnife]

Toby: "Ralsei betraying the party would be an unexpected twist." Toby after he sees this video "Well now I'm not going to anymore."

[@mecburnablasta6811]

I feel that if Ralsei were to be an antagonist, it’d be rehashing Undertale a bit

[@Daniel328DT]

I can see Ralsei betraying them or rather the player for the weird route actions. You take away recruits, use violence instead of kindness, and you desire the suffering of Darkners instead of peaceful lives. I think that warrants Ralsei's betrayal as he'll feel threatened to protect the dark world.

[@Hollowboi_2003]

@@mecburnablasta6811 I think it could work as long as it's not the last chapter. Maybe Chapter 4 or 5 (would be agonizing to find out he's a villain and we immediately have to wait for Chatpers 6 and 7 to come out). I don't remember any twist villains in Undertale (besides Flowey who reveals he's bad like 3 minutes after he's introduced)

[@doomiseternal8133]

YEAAAAAAAAAH

[@Warcrafter4]

@@Hollowboi_2003 Alphys is a twist villian given the entire mettaton event is a set up to try to trick the player to like her. If you actually succeed the challenges you find out pretty quickly its all set up by her and she can't react properly to things not going to her plan. So making _another_ fake helper would be a repeat.

[@PhoenixianThe]

Personally, when looking at Ralsei's actions I think they make sense in the context of what came before. Both Spamton and Jevil had game mechanics revealed to them, one knowing about stats, and one being aware of the way games limit choices. So: What mechanic did Ralsei know? My guess: _Routes._ How often is Ralsei's influence, personally, responsible for keeping Deltarune on a pacifist-esque route so far? Especially as the Weird Route with Noelle can only happen in his absence.

[@Linkfan450]

Good point about how it was only possible when Ralsei was away from Kris. Supposedly we're getting chapters 3 to 5 all together next time and it'll cost money. In those chapters I think paying close attention to any instances of Ralsei being away for a possible bonus path will be interesting.

[@QuokkaWaka]

Interesting, but why would he offer to allow Kris to go without him? I know he gets dragged away by Susie either way, but he was about to give you a choice to bring only Susie. It just seems like a major and unnecessary risk if he is aware of what may happen while he is gone.

[@u1ti]

@@QuokkaWaka Hmm if I had to guess an answer for this, it'd be that perhaps he either didn't know that you'd run into Noelle, or that he wasn't aware of Noelles power to freeze people which would stop them from running away.

[@churro1201]

@@QuokkaWaka i think his thought prosses is if he goes with susie the player wouldn't have any control over her so she'd be fine and if you choose to be with him he would direct you towards susie so he could talk to kris but susie draged him away so kris had to team up with noelle were the first important desicon lie where you can either do pasifist or do genocide with pasifist being the one ralsei wants and genocide being the one doesn't want

[@Lightningflamingice]

Also worth pointing out that Ralsei's counterpart, Asriel, is the only character who knows about the SAVE mechanic in Undertale (even as flowey) except for Sans and Chara.

[@Nexter-Lie]

Everybody inquires as to why ralsei didn't turn to stone, but not to worry he himself explained it. He stated that his fountain was one of pure darkness, and if you'll recall, he was the only one from castle town originally, meaning he'd be a pure darkner, and could persist in other dark worlds.

[@thefrubblewarrior4678]

He’s not based on an object then.

[@Nexter-Lie]

@@thefrubblewarrior4678 well that may not exactly be the case. After all, we don't exactly know what was in the storage closet before the pure dark fountain sprouted.

[@1971taks]

Ralsei didnt turn to stone because it depends on how they strong the darkner is like hiw roxuls lasted longer then lancer maybe ralsei and starwalker are just strong but hold back their power

[@James4044-5]

@@1971taks Almost forgot about the original *Starwalker*

[@russiandoggo4336]

There's too many questions that no one is asking Ralsei. But I want to believe he's the goodest boy.

[@CaptainZlex]

I see Ralsei in the same way that I see Kris. A more realistic take on a common element of games. Kris helps represent how creepy it is for a character to exist solely for us to control. And Ralsei is like a game developer. He manipulate everything and everyone but he does it (so far) so Kris and Susie can go on magical adventures.

[@crys_cornflakez]

me too because i see them both through computer screen and i have working eyes and can compartmentalize different ideas

[@Creativestname]

Sorta like Toby fo- wait

[@TheMightySpurdo]

Yeah, all major characters seem to symbolize a common videogame trope: ralsei the dev that explains you how to progress, kris the avatar of the player, noelle the weak party member that you “make stronger” by farming kills, etc…

[@waitwhat..]

ralsei is asriel. 1) ralsei is an anagram of asriel 2) he looks like asriel 3) why didn't he turn into stone 6:45 4) how does he know where the old classroom is ? 5:49

[@strubba25]

@@waitwhat.. I guess your 3rd question could be answered cause ralsie is The Prince of Darkness

[@napoleoncomplex2712]

One potential hole in the whole 'Ralsei is evil' twist. He seems genuinely surprised when the Queen doesn't know about the Roaring. That doesn't sound like someone trying to hold back information. That sounds like someone who feels like he's stating the obvious and doesn't realise not everyone knows what he does.

[@Xhawk777]

This is a good way of looking at it

[@whiteface513abandonedchann8]

Unless he _wants_ to look as genuine as possible. And if he has any sort of even remotely malicious plans, then he's been proven to be a very good actor

[@Vario69]

Ralsei is Palpatine confirmed

[@levnuica8863]

And following this logic, maybe he's starting to realize just how much he knows comparing to everyone else and how he can use this information to his advantage

[@queenthequeen1277]

@@levnuica8863 would be awesome to see ralsei becoming more and more evil realizing his power as the chapters go

[@thomasdevlin5825]

I get the impression that Ralsei is the Sans of deltarune, on the surface he comes across as a lovable goofball, but deep down he's freaking out because he knows things that he shouldn't know. When we beat Spamton Kris is shaken up because he knows he is just like Spamton, a puppet, and when we cut Spamton's strings to set him free he just falls to the ground and breaks, at this point he can't exist as anything more than a puppet, Susie doesn't know why Kris is so upset, but I guarantee Ralsei does. I think the reason why Ralsei tries so hard to get Kris to move along is because he knows that if he keeps thinking about it he will end up just like Spamton, driven insane looking for a way out

[@joobjoobas]

this was extremely well put

[@edenengland1883]

something a little further, Kris isn't scared because that's what he will end up like he's scared because that's what he *already is* like, remember, he's already tried to break free of the soul at least once before this (potentially more?)

[@nirisu6954]

That’s really interesting Small side note but Kris is a they/them not a he, just so you know :)

[@brendanr4961]

@@nirisu6954 tbf nobody cares about accidentally misgendering a fictional video game character. :)

[@nirisu6954]

@@brendanr4961 I wasn’t upset or offended, I was letting them know incase they didn’t know, I doubt they were misgendering them on purpose. and if they are, oh well

[@GFCOLCQuote]

You also forget that Ralsei actually let us focus on Suzie, literally breaking our focus away from Kris. And then when we're back he says something like: "and that's why." As if we just caught the last words of a conversation... with Kris.

[@SSL_2004]

That's actually a very interesting point. In just about any discussion we have with a character, The dialogue options come down to the player, Not Kris, So it's quite interesting that a full discussion is happening off-screen, away from the players view.

[@Mqstodon]

And in snowgrave he's really bothered when that doesn't work

[@ZoraPMC]

Yes, Ralsei does have private talks with Kris...not the player. Ralsei told Kris to open the 3rd fountain...

[@jjmara01]

@@ZoraPMC Or he is trying to help Kris, who is suffering from someone controlling their every move. To help them feel okay and has a friend with them.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

I have yet to watch the video but even if Kris (NPC) is the Knight and Ralsei and Kris are plotting against you he's just soooo cute (also Kris doesn't like Ralsei that much according to the Tea so the betrayer might get betrayed himself just like Flowey on Genocide)

[@antiCussStudio]

One thing to note in chapter 2, when Ralsei asks "do you wonder what Susie is doing" and the player follows Susie for a bit, and then the player cuts back to Ralsei and Kris, Ralsei is shown talking to Kris directly One theory is that Ralsei KNOWS about the player, and SPECIFICALLY asked "do you wonder what Susie is doing" in an effort to get some actual alone time with Kris, without the interference of the player

[@TheOneLilo]

Cook

[@MarloTheBlueberry]

Cook

[@AK-fp7sg]

Cook

[@Youaveragecountryhumansfan]

Cook

[@Pan-oy2ck]

Cook

[@rockincradilyyyy8489]

The thing with only Ralsei knowing the legend is… Lancer also knows the legend He explains it to you in his own goody way if you refuse to hear the legend

[@_Jotop]

oof

[@pearlplayaa]

Yeah

[@hollow7501]

Well the Knight told the King who told his son which means it could be possible if Ralsei was the knight

[@pearlplayaa]

@@hollow7501 Except the knight is a lightner, and Ralsei isn't

[@_Jotop]

@@pearlplayaa well.... thats what we think at least....

[@DomiAnimations]

I'm calling it, Toby is gonna reference the "Ralsei with a gun" meme in some way

[@talkalexis]

Here before you Why do i have so much likes

[@yharim180]

@@talkalexis Wait. comments like these are usually irrelevant but how?

[@amycatass]

When fighting pop-ups, if you have Ralsei click a pop-up, he’ll click on a machine gun by accident.

[@misterp1355]

@@amycatass ono

[@weirded_out1245]

cool

[@Paddylol]

Even if the formula is the same, I'll still be overhyped about it.

[@Ttegegg]

Titans is taking over

[@milk4lyfe]

and there will always be a tiny jellybean to steal it

[@MrLighthouse6]

I can't agree more with this, TobyFox had made masterpieces without any fail, even though these might be reused formulas, he knows how to use them correctly and get us leaving with a big smile

[@berrydelightdiwizin]

"The characters who we fall in love with, will turn out to be the betrayal at the finale". Toby really outmasters himself with this motive.

[@CaptainCoolzCT-]

Have you guys ever played Xenoblade Chronicles? The story so far is VERY similar. Before the game begins, a scientist shatters himself across time and space, in one universe (the original universe), he’s an omnipotent yet weak force, and the other, a god with control over the passage of fate. A certain vessel is created for the regeneration of this God’s damaged soul, and gets stronger and stronger until the god can be recreated. Also, 'If you don’t do THIS, then Titans will awaken!' is a major plot line in both games, lol. There are also those who secretly work for the god, trying to move the narrative forward until the god returns.

[@PG2994]

Ralsei: *Mentions the light-world school* Everybody: Holy crap he's hiding something! Queen: *Mentions the light-world library* Everybody: Eh, nothing wrong here.

[@Gre3nL1ght]

True lol

[@Laggyboy5161]

lol true

[@m7mmad3mad]

Well, the concept of "darkners being sentient or aware of the light world" differs from one darkner to another. In case of the main villains, King and Queen took the information of the light world from the knight and used it for their evil plans, so we already know they're evil even if their motives don't appear to be evil. In case of the secret bosses, you can see that Jevil and Spamton were normal darkners with high ambitions who suddenly got bombarded with the information and the self awareness that they became mad because of it. Ralsei's case is a bit more complicated though, because he's our loyal companion that's been along with us the whole time that when he starts talking about light world stuff, we can't help but think he's shady. There's also a thing that many people forget which is the scene of Kris and Ralsei in the boat when Ralsei talks about his journey of befriending his teammates and talks about Kris and Susie's traits and personalities, but then he starts questioning his own personality saying that he doesn't know what being "Ralsei-like" is. In my opinion, Ralsei has some sort of identity crisis where he doesn't fit with his lightner teammates and doesn't really fit with the other darkners either, which makes his whole character feel a bit off.

[@Viapish]

@@m7mmad3mad did you just type an essay?

[@ThisOnlyDraven]

@@m7mmad3mad bruh I'm not reading all that 💀

[@slimyslimer2642]

Plot Twist: The real villain will be Starwalker, he will develop a second form with the power of the moss and the eggs

[@tophatcat9996]

I think the final villain will either be us, the player, or our creation from the very beginning. Maybe kris.

[@sweetricecakeman8582]

@@tophatcat9996 star walker ⭐🌟🌠

[@binneboi5458]

You mean: *The* original Starwalker

[@thataintfalco6775]

PLOT TWIST: Starwalker will eventully be a secret boss

[@soviet_onion34]

PLOT TWIST: Starwalker already was a secret boss, in fact was in plain sight.

[@amongOS806]

If you hug ralsei on the swan ride before fighting Spamton Neo, you actually get a different cutscene where Ralsei hugs and comforts Kris and Kris asks Susie for a hug

[@ronenth]

When the impirsenator is exhibiting suspicious activity! 😳

[@stuchy1018]

@@ronenth Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun, dun dun

[@UwUDaniUwU]

sussy baka

[@inkedthedemon]

@@ronenth impersonator

[@OlaAremu]

That's pretty sussy, broski

[@RagingHamster]

“What do you fear most in the world?” “The possibility that love is not enough.”

[@XenoWalkerEVE]

Damn. Imagine doing all the nice and pacifist dialogue. Being genuinely kind and loving to ralsei and end up still being betrayed by him. Even saying that hits hard. I love our little goatbro. I don’t want to hurt him even if he has no other choice.

[@RagingHamster]

@@XenoWalkerEVE Hiding from your fear doesn’t make your fear go away. Not even the biggest fear of all

[@MagilousMenagerie]

Now by LOVE do you mean "Level of Violence"?

[@robotnikkkk001]

=YUP, *_"LOVE"_* .......Level Of ViolencE,HEHE =I REMEMBER THAT,HEHE

[@robotnikkkk001]

@@MagilousMenagerie =I THINK THAT YES =HEHE

[@yet_another_benny]

If Ralsei pulls a "I'm evil now!" I will not hesitate to join them.

[@sleekyissleepy]

U mean him?

[@pearltothemoon3493]

@@sleekyissleepy They/Them is completely safe and gender neutral. I don't know how many times I will need to explain this in some way, shape, or form.

[@Crosstariale]

Ralsei: i’m evil now! muhaha! Me: **Slowly Fades out from existance** Also Me: **Slowly Fades in by Ralsei’s Side**

[@sileudies]

@@sleekyissleepy referring to somebody as “they” doesn’t make them non binary lmao

[@Seasy_]

@@Crosstariale Suzy: *looks around in rude buster*

[@videogameepicfails]

The one thing that puzzled me somewhat was that when Ralsei does the “let’s focus on Susie” thing, where the player focuses on Susie and not on Kris. Every time we return to Kris, Ralsei was speaking to kris (and not the player) and the player only ever catches“...and that’s why”. I’ve thought about “...and that’s why”. that’s what you say when you’re justifying something to someone else. For example: “I had to call a cab because my car broke down, so that’s why”. The phrase normally comes after a “because” statement. So if I understand this; Ralsei sends the player’s focus away from Kris, he then speaks to Kris alone, and he says something that probably justifies his strange behavior to Kris. I believe Ralsei is telling Kris his true motives while they’re alone. I think the conversation went something like “I need you (Kris) to make a new dark fountain. Without a new one, the player has no reason to come back (to deltarune). I need you to make new ones because otherwise I will be all alone, so that’s why.” If Ralsei was as evil as Flowey, I don’t think he would encourage you to spare enemies the way he does. I think he’s trying to give the player a reason to stay even if it means temporarily shifting the balance of light and dark. I think the reason he does this behind the players back is because he isn’t sure how the player would react to this revelation. Remember how much he said he missed Kris and Susie when they first returned to castle town in chapter 2, despite only being gone for less than 24 hours since the end of chapter 1. I think he really doesn’t like to be alone. But that’s just my speculation.

[@Gunblazer42]

The only real problem with that theory is that there's some evidence that Kris doesn't like Ralsei, or at least not as much as the SOUL wants to like Ralsei. He gives weird looks when Susie asks him questions and he replies with Ralsei-based answers (like "Who do you want to take to the festival?" he gives a confused-sounding statement if you were to answer Noelle or Ralsei) and the Teas, which seem to be a reflection as to what you think of the person whose flavor Tea you're drinking (Kris heals a lot more from Susie Tea compared to Ralsei Tea). I DO believe Ralsei is telling Kris stuff he doesn't want the SOUL to know, but it isn't to make more fountains so Ralsei can't be alone.

[@videogameepicfails]

@@Gunblazer42 I understand that Kris probably doesn’t like Ralsei (or Noel) as much as Susie. But i think Ralsei was giving him a reason to make the fountains. Kris could simply be interested in having adventures with Susie and nothing more. But regardless, without a new fountain, there is no adventure. From Kris’s perspective, there would be mutual gain in creating new fountains. Something I just though about thats a bit off subject, if Spamton was defeated by cutting off his strings, shouldn’t Kris ripping the player’s Soul out have the same result. Cutting a puppet’s strings is separating the will from the body, much like Kris removing the Soul. So shouldn’t Kris logically end up like spamton NEO after the boss fight?

[@toppler8164]

@@videogameepicfails I think Ralsei is trying to keep Kris alive, I mean what happens we just leave? Kris dies, and everything freeze's. The game needs us to keep the world going, or it dies.

[@toppler8164]

@@videogameepicfails but then again, we could be overthinking this, not enough evidence points towards Ralsei and Kris working together and Kris in fact more or less acts out of his own volition. I think he might be telling Kris about the prophecy away from the player cause he probably knows the player, wanting to know what happens, goes against the prophecy summoning Armageddon into the world. Remember out of all the characters, Kris isn't shocked when he hears about the roaring, he looks like he's already heard about it. I really think Ralsei is aware of the players ability to control things, so he is trying his best to seclude the player when he's spilling beans about the prophecy to Kris. He's probably not aware Kris is the Knight though.

[@AlsoFroggy]

Honestly this comment is really well thought out and it seems like something that would happen

[@BlackMita]

I think of Ralsei as a perfected form of the other secret bosses: A darkener who has been visited/convinced by the Knight to challenge the player in some way. But unlike Jevil or Spamton, he hasn't gone "crazy" from knowing he's in a game.

[@thth25396]

Kris is the knight. He literally creates a dark fountain at the end.

[@exammole4545]

@@thth25396 Well there’s a theory that Gaster contacts the secret bosses and that makes them sentient

[@UmbraLyrel]

@@exammole4545 They were always "sentient". I think the word you're looking for is "self aware".

[@Lilo_-]

@@thth25396 Queen said that any lightner can create fountains so Ralsei could still be the knight

[@thth25396]

@@Lilo_- yea but if they were both creating fountains they wouldn't be enemies

[@viruscat385]

There's also that scene where Ralsei wants us to think about what Susie and Noelle are doing. After that scene you can see that Ralsei talked with Kris about something we couldn't hear. They share something we as the player shouldn't know. Also something that's really weird is how Ralsei gets constantly ignored by other characters (it was very obvious with the Queen)

[@Sillylilgrill]

true

[@Canuki]

Yes, and when you give Ralsei tea to Noelle she can't see it

[@FabschOblivion669]

As for him getting ignored by other characters, I think with Noelle it might be because he might remind her too much of Asriel which creeps her out a bit, but she doesn't want to address it in case she seems rude or something like that. As for Queen? It is kinda suspicious how she just ignores him except when they're alone.

[@Hk-ox4bb]

I mean, noelle doesn’t really get a chance to meet everyone, after being teleported to the cyber world a young goat (the only type of monster she saw in the light world) is probably the most normal thing there plus Kris and Susie both seems to be ok with him so she doesn’t question that As for the queen, she knows nothing of Ralsei since, as far as the game tells us, he doesn’t have a pc, munch less an internet connection; she has no motivation to address him since she needs a lightener and Ralsei is a darkner as far as the game tells us

[@CaliCosmicGal]

Well the queen ignores him because he isn’t a lightner and she needed lightners

[@lanceuppercut_]

I don't think Ralsei will betray the party. "It's always the one you least expect" is a really overused trope, and I'm sure Toby can write a more interesting twist

[@edwardcoxon9000]

Toby himself will be a twist boss

[@Data-Expungeded]

@@edwardcoxon9000 yes i’ve been saying this for months

[@peternehemiah1606]

Toriel will be the hyperdeath god in deltarune

[@AbsolutelyAri1]

​@@edwardcoxon9000 I died from the annoying dog

[@taraktaras7327]

@@edwardcoxon9000 This actually makes sense.

[@picoultimate7707]

Let's also remember that Ralsei's high kindness almost led to him, Susie and Kris getting killed at the end of Chapter 1 when King turned on them. EDIT: This doesn't mean he's evil, though, as replies to this comment have proven. King was only taking advantage of Ralsei's naivety to take back what is his.

[@panda_the_noob2337]

And apparently you can forget Ralsei also saved Susie and Kris by Pacifying King.

[@picoultimate7707]

@@panda_the_noob2337 All three of them contributed to that, but Kris defended Susie from one of King's attacks, and Susie (alongside Lancer and the Darkners if everyone was spared) saved Kris from getting killed by King.

[@Cacemomarerona]

The whole game, you’ve been doing the same thing, though-- Sparing enemies that are trying to kill you, no? Even Susie comments on how stupid that sounds at first, but during a pacifist route, if you instead were given the option to heal the king, you’d probably choose to heal him as well

[@picoultimate7707]

@@Cacemomarerona Yeah. But in the end, he was bluffing, and it almost had them killed. Thankfully, it did end out better in the end, since doing the same for everyone in other Dark Worlds would lead to a great ending overall.

[@Ttegegg]

Smiling characters evil

[@jstar3382]

When Ralsie got pushed out if bounds after Spamton Neo, I got chills. He's not bound to the rules of this world

[@TazJustTaz]

Oh damn, my Ralsei was down when I won so I don’t think I got to see it

[@amongOS806]

You get a different scene if you beat queen/berdly before spamton neo where Ralsei actually comforts and hugs kris

[@justgrudd]

@@amongOS806 he only hugs Kris if you hugged him at the camera

[@purplev247]

I think darkners can walk in these areas, in ch.1 lancer does the same.

[@thaumiel2013]

... or hes just stepping off of a path lmao

[@Hailix4240]

Look, Toby loves to subvert expectations, and the hints at ralsei’s betrayal are pretty heavy handed, so it would be subversive to have ralsei be good, with a sordid history. Either way it goes I won’t be surprised

[@averyjenson]

Yeah i feel they know the player (us) is an unpredictable force, so maybe they are trying to hide something from us rather than Kris. That may not be a bad thing, but maybe knowing that we may try to change things 👀👀

[@mysticxjuice]

I think ralsei is gonna "betray", but its gonna be a plan by by him and Kris (every time ralsei tells us to imagine what susie is doing and we control her he seems to be finishing a conversation with kris)

[@zenthossohtnez8331]

@@mysticxjuice wait that’s really interesting, They could be telling ralsei about how they are being controlled and that’s why ralsei is so adamant about them looking at what susie is doing

[@andreassmed2255]

Just wait until he betrays you… And then doesn’t at the same time!

[@maverickREAL]

He's gonna end up subverting the subversion.

[@paradoxxikal7327]

What if ralsei “betrays you” in a sort of genocide route, because you’re killing everyone and only ralsei realizes it so you have to fight him and make a choice on whether or not you kill them. If you continue the genocide run, maybe kris will break free from the player because, y’know, ralsei = sort of asriel and asriel = Kris’s brother. Kris/ralsei could be the sans fight of Deltarune.

[@chongwillson972]

@Jacob L. i think it would be a more better idea is that if ralsei is gonna be a genocide end boss he would have to be different from previous genocide boss fights in undertale, maybe a person you simply CANT kill or defeat and it would set itself apart from undertale by having you NOT be a unstoppable force, and have a boss you cant solve with attacking...

[@mouthlesshater]

Brilliant idea.

[@emersonneoforces8589]

Now that's something I wanted to read,not the "Ralsei's the villain!" Bullshit,why tf would a fluffy prince as Rals would backstab us anyways?

[@pearlplayaa]

For how he got to the cyber world, since he's a being from a fountain made of pure darkness, it'd make sense if he could both travel to and survive in other dark worlds

[@maxzapsgamingzepzeap2337]

That's actually the theory I also believe in! It simply makes zero sense for Ralsei to ever be a Lightner

[@pearlplayaa]

@@maxzapsgamingzepzeap2337 All lightners present in a dark world show up in the light world after the fountain is sealed, appearing as though they'd fallen asleep. Either waking up immediately or staying down depending on their status when the fountain is sealed. Ralsei wouldn't be able to avoid that if he was a lightner

[@maxzapsgamingzepzeap2337]

@@pearlplayaa Exactly!

[@pearlplayaa]

@@maxzapsgamingzepzeap2337 And he simply can't be lying about the grand fountain functioning the way it does, because we see for ourselves that everyone from the unused classroom's dark world is safe and sound when they stay in castle town, but not when they go to the cyber world

[@darktis4224]

@@pearlplayaa none of the lightners can't have a colored image in chatbox too.

[@nickyogurt]

"Our purpose, darkners' purpose, is to assist the lightners, it's the only way we can feel truly fulfilled"

[@fefek1]

Lighters, not invisible things that make others their puppets.

[@misakitakazaki8951]

The Darkeners are literally refugees losing their worlds and became super duper happy on resettling in Ralsei's Town. This is why Pacifist Route makes me even more sick than Snowgrave. I feel like I'm brainwashing a ton of people.

[@euguinn9524]

@@misakitakazaki8951 well it’s either that or just kill everyone. And queen doesn’t really seem to mind once she realizes that opening fountains could destroy the world.

[@higrunt9844]

@@misakitakazaki8951 i go neutral and just try to avoid confrontations

[@Mqstodon]

@@misakitakazaki8951 and isn't that good? Without the fountains they wouldn't even exist, and if the fountains continued to exist they would die

[@silverflight01]

It would be hilarious if Toby threw in several hints at a betrayal in future chapters, make it look like Ralsei would be the one betraying you, and then pull a twist and reveal it to be someone else that would make just as much sense. Long story short: I would love a betrayal, just not Ralsei.

[@weebjeez]

Well... Something to consider is that Susie's first title after formally joining the party is "Dark Knight" and it's said she "Does damage using dark energy." I mean... I HIGHLY doubt she's the Knight, unless it's something that's entirely unintentional (like, for all we know, she's carving her name into places, because she's a delinquent, and her desire for an escape is the will that activated the fountains) but, even then, there are certain things that make me think she can't be, either.

[@DENPTrains]

@@weebjeez I'm pretty sure Determination creates fountains, which only humans have if we're going off of Undertale

[@weebjeez]

@@DENPTrains meanwhile, Noelle and Berdly we're both implied to be capable of opening a fountain, with Resident Fountain Expert, Ralsei panicking about Berdly's attenpt, showing that this likely isn't the same for Deltarune

[@zainkhattak4042]

@@DENPTrains Undyne the undying is typing

[@lachilondronaoficial]

also not lancer, he just doesnt fit lol

[@thatmatt7941]

I have a feeling that when ralsie tells Kris to "close your eyes and imagine what Susie is doing right now" that could be ralsie and Kris making up plans to take down the player or something. Idk

[@sillyguy_5559]

Lol

[@rigure]

Ooooooo~ I always thought it's just Kris not even listening, and felt bad that I've no clue what Ralsei said, but that's such an interesting theory! Because I agrer, that Ralsei wouldn't be a villain, certainly our enemy tho!

[@James4044-5]

How would they take us down lmao

[@Data-Expungeded]

@@James4044-5 don’t brush it off. Its very possible.

[@James4044-5]

@@Data-Expungeded Alright alright, but explain

[@2leftthumbs]

Glad I'm not the only one out here who's incredibly suspicious of Ralsei after Chapter 2!!

[@kndkevin]

Hi :DDD

[@8834]

Second reply

[@MrChaco-vh1vw]

My man!

[@yetanotherlookstothemoon]

Goat boi is sus

[@assaultificgaming]

Yoooo Ima big fan! :DD your vids are sick man!

[@ryzatheduck5195]

"how does he know where everything is at?" The classroom is to the east of the closet and chapter ones darkworld is to the east of Ralsei's dark world, we can also see that the old classroom is laid out with the purple carpet (field of hopes and dreams), checkerboard (the great board), the red lego bricks (forest), and the cabinet (castle) from left to right. Using this we can assume that in the dark world direction stays consistent, just not scale.

[@ooferdoot2429]

Scale is weird but directly connected areas stay connected.the door off to the side of the room parallels the large door you open at the start of chapter one. That's also why it says in chapter 2 that the door may never open again because the dark world in that room is gone so there is nothing for the door to open to.

[@briangak8815]

How does he know the other dark world was in a classroom even if he could have guessed it was to the east?

[@winterfire591]

@@briangak8815 well queen knows she's in a library

[@ryzatheduck5195]

@@briangak8815 I'm not disproving the theory as a whole, just explaining this one point.

[@sf936]

Well for one it seems as though Dark Worlds or at least the beings inside them existed before the Fountains, both mention existing long before them even if they still refer to themselves as darkeners, perhaps there is another kind of realm we don't know besides the Dark Worlds which holds darkeners, I've also thought how weird it is that the darkners either were objects before the Fountains as Queen's comments suggest because of the whole comment on the internet going down, the web searches,etc. Either that or they became objects that could have a form inside the light realm, from what we can gather through this, there must be a way for the darkners to get hold of information of the real world even before becoming dark worlds with Fountains, so that would explain why Ralsei knows about the classroom at the very least, it certainly doesn't explain how he got to the Cyber World but there is that at least.

[@themultiroundergamer6073]

Personally, I believe that the Ralsei-Fountain is the TRUE fountain, while the others were 'accidents'. How else would you explain the fact that all the recruits didn't turn to stone when they got to castle town? This also explains how Ralsei manages to survive in the other world, and also how he was the single 'survivor' in Castle Town, as simply the Lancer dark world was sealed, not the Ralsei one. The fact that Ralsei seems to know a lot about the Dark World enforces this theory, as he may have learnt a lot of it from his past subjects or maybe his family, though we know basically nothing about that. Also, Ralsei (and a few other people) mention about the SAVE file, and the controls. This might also be because Ralsei mentions in the Ch1 King fight that "We're supposed to keep Lightners happy". The Darkners could maybe know about these game mechanics, so they could help the Lightners. We'll just have to wait for Chapter 3, 4 and 5 I guess.

[@LowIntSpecimen]

I believe he mentions Castle Town's fountain is made of pure darkness, which is why everyone can reside there and he can reside everywhere.

[@themultiroundergamer6073]

@@LowIntSpecimen Yeah I think I recalled something like that, I'll have to double check that.

[@blikkz1551]

Also why the giants haven’t appeared yet

[@gorillaslayer52]

@@themultiroundergamer6073 yeah, he says that when lancer turns to stone and susie asks for him to heal lancer

[@something4922]

Aswell as the issue with calling sealing the fountains bad(in pacifist runs) is that they usually take up space in the light world. They also disrupt things and potentially put light world residents in danger.

[@LavenderLilacYT]

My guess is that , yes, Ralsei WILL betray the player. Not Kris, not Susie. Just the player. Ralsei is aware of the entity controlling Kris, and the first chance Ralsei gets, he will use a spell that will remove the bond between Kris and the Player. (I would name the spell: Marionette Remover) Afterwards, it is up to us to use our discarded vessel to find Kris, Susie, and Ralsei so we can either apologize to or kill them. However, instead of the same buttons we used for Kris, we instead have: Fight, Speak, Heal, Execute, and Threaten fight is the same. Speak options: *Plead, Fake sob, flirt, insult, flatter* Heal options: *you eat food and you heal twice as much as you would with Kris, Ralsei, and Susie* Execute: this replaces the 'SPARE' button. an enemy has to be downed. If you use this on a downed enemy, THEY DIE. Threaten: you just threaten the enemy. Idk why I went and did this but now I'm tempted to write this down in my journal.

[@simonw.1223]

Sounds also intersting.

[@jBread28]

Sounds similar to that fanmade one, with the 'execute' button

[@James4044-5]

@@jBread28 V.S the Fun Gang?

[@jBread28]

@@James4044-5 Believe so

[@James4044-5]

Man I would flirt with Kris ngl

[@abcengenir3309]

i feel like ralsei isnt trying to betray kris, he's trying to betray the player

[@darklink8423]

That is Wrost.

[@dymaz_azure]

@@darklink8423 not exaclty

[@darklink8423]

@@dymaz_azure Form me (player) is, And i am try do the pacifist be one too

[@CH4RA_DR3AMER]

this entire reply section is having a stroke..

[@robindabank819]

I- **Has a stroke** **Dies**

[@Starius65]

Amazing, flowey is somehow the antagonist again. He can't keep getting away with it.

[@hellgazer8370]

damn you, you golden flower that shouldn't even exist in this timeline due to asriel being alive!!

[@yeast7013]

Dandelion shit

[@QuokkaWaka]

@@yeast7013 Bro he ain't a dandelion he's a flower

[@yeast7013]

@@QuokkaWaka yes I know it’s supposed to be an insult cause dandelions are weeds

[@QuokkaWaka]

@@yeast7013 Yowza!

[@trueblueflare]

My theory is that, rather than Ralsei betraying the party, Kris will break free of the player's hold and end up betraying the others. If this is the case, it would be neat if you got to control the Vessel you created at the start.

[@randomstuff2745]

Yeah I was speculating that might happen. I'm glad I'm not the only one!

[@mguy5923]

I don't think Kris would betray Susie, multiple interactions suggests he really likes her. Kris would stab you (the player) in the back if presented the chance though, most likely. He really hates being controlled.

[@trueblueflare]

@@mguy5923 I sorta disagree, what with Kris making a dark fountain with Susie in the room at the end of chapter 2. Though you may be right lol.

[@Kjf365]

I think this would take place during the weird route across the chapters ultimately ending with Kris rejecting us and telling Susie and Ralsei about the evil we've done to everyone. In which case us in our Ch1 vessel would command our squad of mind slaves in a battle against them.

[@supermario863]

Oh man I literally spammed through the character creator at the beginning because I knew that the character wouldn't matter so rip

[@ConnanTheCivilized]

The only way Ralsei could betray his heroes is if they (and/or the player) threaten his vision of the future. Heroes and villains are a matter of perspective, and goatboy seems really deluded about how things are playing out. We already saw this with Lancer in ch 1 and Spamton in the ch 2 Snowgrave route. They thought they were our ally until they realized we were too big of a threat to their goals. We also brainwashed Noelle into believing we are helping her, despite her being as disposable as any other character. My point is that we are so obsessed over making Ralsei look like a dark lord, that we are avoiding the better question of whether the relationship is more toxic than helpful, and if he is simply withholding information.

[@KingTeravolt]

It was kind of the opposite for Lancer in terms of "Ally turned enemy" He doesn't give a damn about the fountain or his kingdom's plans, he was just lonely and became our enemy for his dad's approval, but upon realizing that the Lightners are just better company, he turned into their ally

[@TheBasedTyrant]

He was obviously suspicious from the start, I think that as time goes on, everyone living in his town under his rule will become less of a suggestion and more of an order. But I think he will believe he is doing the right thing somehow. In other words he will be more of a morally delusional villain then a pure evil Mastermind. Like Thanos, for a example.

[@TheBasedTyrant]

@CrypticMemory but you know what I mean right? He's a very good Antagonist because you can really tell that he he is doing what he thinks is right for the universe. That said, Ralsei is being very manipulative in a underhanded kind of way, so it could easily be that he is secretly just a selfish villain.

[@emmalion1976]

@@TheBasedTyrant wdym That's already queen, she thinks she's doing the right thing so she's evil

[@ToastItalian]

I have a theory This connects to matpats chapter one theory In his theory, he says that the dark worlds are creations of kris's mind to run away from their problems, like the divorce, or being the only human in town and not fitting in, or asriel, his best bro (literally), leaving In his theory he said that the knight is Asriel, wich is the fear in kris's mind of Asriel being different, fearing that his brother is different ( i think tough that the knight is kris himself, tryng to run away in the most ways possibile, but that isn't dispriving the theory at all) In the theory, matpat also says that Ralsei is a projection of what kris saw asriel when they were both kids, and played in the dark world togheter, reason why he knows so much stuff, he's a projection of a memory (same reason of him not being "stoned".... I'm not sorry) This probably means that Ralsei started existing once the dark world opened, and being the only one who continued existing since he's an imaginary lightner probably I think that what he's hiding upstairs, the thing he hides, is that he's not gonna live trough, and tryng to find a "cure" to that Since he's a reflection of Asriel, maybe as soon as the real Asriel comes back, he's gone, the lie is gone Maybe his "Betrayal" is him tryng to keep kris in to save his world (since probably that world is gonna be gone with Ralsei too, because "the lies are over") *Ralsei's betrayal is him tryng to save his world by keeping you in it* While there are a bunch of things that i still can't explain, this is my theory MY *[hyperlink Blocked]* theory

[@sovietdoggo43]

@@ToastItalian If this is the case then that would be really heart wrenching to see.

[@ToastItalian]

@@sovietdoggo43 Yeah if this Is true, i'm immagini A scene of Kris and Susie about to an other fountain or another task that might something different Real stopping them and giving one of those flashback like it seems like the one in deltarune, and then then insisting on nothing going wrong, butter all saying something like "i'm sorry, i'm afraid i can't let you go" and after a bunch of debating between each other, the final boss starts

[@rodaki9408]

I think the second theory, of Ralsei having good intentions throughout the game, and later betraying the player, not Kris, is more plausible

[@HAMISTT]

Could be ngl

[@MrNativeknight]

Right on point. Ralsei hasn’t shown any signs aggression yet, but my guess is that he is working against the player in both routes. Thinking back on the Spamton fight during the normal routes the “player” comes out to save the party. I wonder if thats one of the conversations thats he’s trying to avoid having as well as the mention that they are all puppets and kris clearly was struggling afterwards. My guess is the player will be betrayed regardless of which route we take. After all what characters don’t want their own freedom?

[@pumkinbutter]

Honestly seems like the contrary. Why would Ralsei be parting with someone who creates new dark fountains? Plus, he most likely knows about the player. I think it's much more likely that Ralsei will be on OUR side rather than Kris's.

[@darklink8423]

@@pumkinbutter Yes i think too

[@kshimo7]

If Ralsei wants to get rid of the player, he needs to get rid of Kris too. Kris is just an empty vessel made for the player and someone else, You are the one who gives life to the vessel, along with someone else taking over in the end of CH1 and CH2. Wonder who that is huh?

[@beywheelzhater8930]

One thing to note is Ralsei did help us during post spamton, the whole "imagine something else, something you like, something soft" while repeating that everything is fine is a method to help people who are experiencing panic attacks. Keeping them focused on one thing and assuring them everything will be fine allows a mind to refocus and calm down While yes, Ralsei may be tricking them to ignore Spamton, it very well could be something done for good. Theoretically speaking Ralsei doesn't know what is going on with Spamton, would it really be a good idea to try and focus on it, on what seems like a corrupted program while a friend is in panic? Very well the situation may not have been gaslighting but a diffusal method meant to make sure they don't drive Kris into a further panic, after all some issues are best dealt with when you have a clearer mind Of course, that is just speculation, Ralsei may be pulling a sneak scheme on us and combining help with deception

[@Kletian999]

It seems Ralsei is a lot kinder in this scene if you wait to do Spamton after the Swan Ride and choose to hug him for the photo.

[@finnvaneekelen4966]

@@Kletian999 yes i agree that this points to ralsei being a good boy

[@TheAdvertisement]

10:55 That would make sense for why Ralsei initiates those two scenes where you see Susie's POV, so he can talk to Kris alone.

[@beefoon9517]

In the snowgrave route, in front of Noelle's room in Queens (Spamtons) castle, when Susie goes in Ralsei keeps asking Kris if he wonders what's going on in there, but the camera never pans inside the room, Ralsei gets really nervous and stuttering, so I think he wanted to tell Kris about what's happening while the player was viewing the inside of Noelle's room.

[@steph8030593]

He’s really nervous and stuttering because we aren’t following his passivist route and he doesn’t like/want that

[@unlonsee]

maybe ralsei knows we are controlling kris

[@dungeon_memelord623]

but then why didn't he say anything during the prison break sequence in chapter 1?

[@unlonsee]

@@dungeon_memelord623 because we didn't see him?

[@ricardobr1493]

Considering How Susie Acted When She Left The Room i Think That Its a Good Thing The Camera Didn't Leave

[@zipityzap7675]

I think that’s why Ralsei want kris to close their eyes so the player’s focus is on Susie and not on kris.

[@eazy770]

But this way we control susieeee... Actually you're right. Susie can talk by her own you know.

[@colin3ds1]

I think ralsei talks to kris while the soul is distracted Maybe ralsei does want to help him

[@Nofian-s1g]

@@colin3ds1 I want to think that way too but then why Kris created the fountain if Ralsei said we have to close it? Their motives are different. That's where I'm stuck now. Or what if that is the reason why Kris didn't like Ralsei as much as they like Susie? Or did Kris just wanted the adventure so they open the world just to close it again?

[@Della_B]

So if kris closed his eye.. Does that mean he could be himself because us player disctracted to focus on Susie? They might be planning something.

[@zipityzap7675]

@@Nofian-s1g I think there’s 3 person controlling Kris. One is player one is kris themselves and one is a mysterious person.

[@justsomebeatss121]

There is no way Ralsei will betray us in a bad way because its something we expect. Knowing Toby, that wont happen.

[@clarencejohnson8964]

And thats exactly why its unexpected! We expect it so much we write it off and then boom!😂

[@justsomebeatss121]

@@clarencejohnson8964 I would honestly be dissapointed if toby made Ralsei betray us in a bad way lol

[@starwaves1631]

You're probably right, considering Toby is possibly against cliches.

[@heroesinhoodies1210]

I would be heavily disappointed but honestly not shocked if that’s the route Toby takes. I loved all the wholesome scenes this chapter and it would suck if they turn him into flowey 2.0

[@maximyllion]

@@justsomebeatss121 it would be very dissapointing, i would love if the main villain happened to be the vessel we created at the start of ch. 1

[@Worst_Evil]

4:44 This is fair enough but some other darkners do it too 5:15 Okay whilst Ralsei does withhold this information its probably just because they don't want to panic any. They do eventually tell them but only when it's nessacary. Besides if lancer heard that he might just ignore it or go and tell everyone and probably cause a panic 6:46 Well he is the Prince of the dark world. Also he's definitely at least a semi-darkner because his text sprite is coloured, unlike susie or berdly

[@Smiley-pe6vu]

I do believe that Ralsei knows about the player. There were also those moments when Ralsei told you to focus on Susie. But when you finished and get back to Ralsei and Kris, every time it seems like both had a conversation together that we did not hear. It feels like Ralsei just distracted the player for a short while. It's very possible that Ralsei will make a move to confront the player at some point. However, I don't like the fact that WE as the player are seen as evil. The player wanted to live in that world full of nostalgic characters that were their friends in another world. The player doesn't play the game for cruel intentions only. Remember that we, as the player, got forced into Kris without a choice by someone that greeted us in the beginning of the first chapter. I really really want to see the twist that the world of deltarune will realize the existence of the player and react to it. They could confront the player but they shouldn't see the player as outright evil, especially if you did the Pacifist Route through and through.

[@Laury2Seas]

I think it's the fact that we are the biggest stranger to the world, especially being attached to Kris, they could be on the side of caution, like how Sans was in Undertale...oh...Ralsei could be judging us.. O.O

[@yoyo-vf9sy]

(sorry for my poor english) Ralsei does not know of what happened in Undertale. In fact, the only form it exists is an unfinished game prototype on (presumably) Asriel's computer. I do, however, believe that Ralsei thinks what he's going to do is for Darkners' wellbeing.

[@jjmara01]

I do agree with what you said, but I sadly do feel no matter what, you are a villain. Just because you want to do pacifism, doesn't mean you are a good person. If I forced you to give money to orphans or feed the homeless, does that make me a hero? That I force you to do things I believe is right, just because of my own views on justice? You are still forcing a teen, a kid, to do whatever you want with no free control at all.

[@emaaaaax]

I think it's fair that the player is evil: you downloaded the game, you wanted to control Kris, you wanted to make choices, it's all your will controlling a random "living" (i know it's a game but shut up) being just to have fun. That dosnt sound good. It's like the earthbound Halloween hack that Toby also made: you infiltrated yourself in somebodys life

[@darklink8423]

I'm a pacifist but when necessary I attack

[@patriciaalcala5292]

He’s way too calm about everything, just way too positive that it’s eerie.

[@misticalinteractive]

Except when you talk about The Legend.

[@sindrevangenrobberstad2889]

It reminds me less of "evil bad guy deceiving you with happiness" and more of... (Spoilers for Doki Doki Literature Club) ...Sayori putting on a fake, happy facade because she doesn't want to upset you.

[@QuokkaWaka]

@@sindrevangenrobberstad2889 Well damn he's certainly doing a bad job at it

[@sindrevangenrobberstad2889]

@@QuokkaWaka He tries his best

[@boo5451]

Also there's the fact he says "what does it feel like to be raisel-like" or something in the swan boat ride

[@bosschan5474]

"He knows about key commands and your soul" my guy he's the tutorial, so does toriel

[@jeronimomontivero3879]

But frisk wasn't the firs human soul that toriel has seen

[@bosschan5474]

@@jeronimomontivero3879 that's true, but at this point he's holding up the tutoriel as lore

[@QuokkaWaka]

While I don't think it's impossible that there's an in game explanation, I do agree that he's probably just looking too far into that part.

[@alexhiser4073]

Idk man... Everyone who knows about game mechanics are all pretty suspicious already... Ralsei Jevil Jigsaw Joe Y'know, everyone suspicious

[@churro1201]

Flowey, chara, sans.. yeah i've seen the ralsei is evil thing to much to belive it's real it's an interesting idea but jas too many plotholes to be real

[@TheAdvertisement]

_Finally!_ So glad I'm not the only one who thinks Ralsei is sus af. Especially after Omori, alternate world characters that seem close to our protagonist (if you've played Omori y'know what I mean), I don't completely trust, and I've got a heavy feeling Ralsei's existence in the Dark World is directly tied to Kris, the _actual_ Kris. The way Ralsei doesn't like the secret bosses, his weird out-of-nowhere tale at the end of Chapter 2 that feel like it's hiding something, the constant wholesome moments and childlike attitude he has, and yet at point he acts in charge, even giving tutorials to Kris and acting like he knows more than he lets on. ...I've got a feeling Ralsei's hiding something. Maybe it's to protect us, maybe it's more sinister but... either way, this fluffy boy doesn't seem all that legitimate. He's giving me heavy Coraline vibes.

[@swetuski]

Honestly when the ‘recruit’ functioned happened i started questioning on why that needed to happen, is Ralsie building his own army?

[@abraruralam3534]

Its actually very possible. Ralsei is like asriel. In Undertale, remember how Asriel (in his flower form) tried to mislead the player into thinking Genocide route is the normal way to play? Ralsei might be doing the same, by lying to us, he exploits our powers to accomplish his missions. Just like flowey. Not to mention the fake politeness and cute-look that flowey also had.

[@swetuski]

@@abraruralam3534 Yes, thank you! It might explain why he doesn’t turn to stone, but what puzzles me more is Kris’s behavior as a child seems normal, pulling little pranks, imitating his ‘older brother’ Asriel with the horned headband but…something changed, something we don’t know about. Was this when Asriel left for ‘collage’ or when Toriel and Asgore split? Why did they Split up in the first place, so many questions

[@justmerepanda7721]

Ralsei is indeed building an army. It's not like him Kris and Susie can just fight titans by themselves.

[@sindrevangenrobberstad2889]

It may be that. But, if closing the fountains truly is the right thing to do, then Ralsei probably just wants to save the innocent civilians from oblivion.

[@swetuski]

@@sindrevangenrobberstad2889 I feel there’s more to it though…just some things don’t feel…’right’ per-say. I mean, if Ralsie is a dark prince then how come he’s not turned to stone like Lancer, further more there are moments sorta make me look at him in a different light [no pun intended]

[@pmuniversee]

Something I haven’t seen anyone talk about yet that eludes to Ralsei knowing everything occurs in the Snowgrave route in Chapter 2. When you’re in Queen’s castle towards the end of the chapter, the party eventually finds Noelle’s room and Susie insists on checking in on her. In the normal route, you actually go inside and the scene plays out from there, but in Snowgrave Kris opts to stay outside, which prompts Ralsei to say some really weird stuff. I can’t remember the dialogue specifically, but almost as soon as Susie closes the door, Ralsei asks Kris how they think they’re doing. In this chain of dialogue, Ralsei reminds himself that it’s only been a couple of seconds, and after a very long pause, seems confused as to why the screen hasn’t faded to black yet.

[@Odraude2105]

Do you know a video where i can see that?

[@Uriel12273]

@@Odraude2105 it's almost at the end of the snowgrave rute

[@hebonky]

Maybe to explain the whole ralsei not turning to stone thing, maybe he's a pure darkner, like it's a level above a normal darkner.

[@conejitorosada2326]

Ralsei explained that Darkners reflects their Fountain, and since Castle Town's fountain is from PURE darkness that can let any darkner stay there, it would mean that Ralsei is made from Pure Darkness, thus being Able to go to other dark Worlds without turning to stone

[@downdogy9099]

that's what i thought, his fountain is the first and most pure dark fountain and so hes not confined to his world, because hes made of such pure darkness he can exist in others

[@WillieManga]

If that happens, he BETTER have those sunglasses in the thumbnail.

[@chamitoempire1672]

I believe Ralsei knows exactly how the story must go, and tries to go along with it, but when Noelle comes she isn't part of the prophecy and she can change the story, that's how you must be supposed to beat ralsei and make a different story for the sake of freedom.

[@aland7234]

@bingsus true

[@swordofstabbingold]

@bingsus Yeah, Kris explicitly doesn't want snowgrave.

[@edenengland1883]

I've always hated theories where the main reasoning for looking into it is "it would make a cool narrative", aside from that. Something to note is that Jevil also hints to the roaring in his dialogue, meaning it really isn't just ralsei who knows. As many people have mentioned before, ralsei is made out of "pure darkness" (much like his dark fountain) and thus just needs darkness to sustain his form, not a specific kind of darkness like most others. As for ralsei knowing about things outside the dark world.. well, the same applies to most of the characters in the chapter 2 dark world, there is some way to obtain outside information, be it through computers or books / files, after all, the pure dark world *is* located within a school storage closet, meaning its entirely possible ralsei's knowledge is from stuff in that closet. A lot of stuff *seems* weird, but a lot of it is easily explained by just looking a little farther.

[@noahmurphy-cristal6040]

What does Jevil say about the roaring?

[@edenengland1883]

@@noahmurphy-cristal6040 "hell's roar bubbles from the depths..." iirc

[@noahmurphy-cristal6040]

@@edenengland1883 i think he meant another fountain opening but its a cool idea

[@edenengland1883]

@@noahmurphy-cristal6040 probably means both, given that opening fountains is what *leads* to the roaring

[@niksooxyz]

“Lightners Love Traffic They Look It Up All The Time” implies that queen being the computer in the library allows her to retain all the search queries she received even when she becomes a dark world denizen

[@Beneque1]

Ralsei became suspicious to me when he had created rooms for the protagonists, as if we would stay for that long time in there (plus he hasn't shown us his room)

[@codebracker]

Also how Asriel had a room in the library dark world, that the player refuses to look into

[@sindrevangenrobberstad2889]

@@codebracker I thought Kris refused to look in there because he misses Asriel that much

[@selfloveybear5556]

Yeah I think he said he wasn't done fixing his room

[@codebracker]

@@selfloveybear5556 actually he says he hasn't dusted yet

[@selfloveybear5556]

@@codebracker Yeah that's actually an poor excuse,NOW I REALLY wanna see.

[@leandroroman7053]

Ralsei: *sees another fountain of darkness* There can only be one!

[@Ash_McSticks]

What if, since Kris has seemingly been creating the Fountains, Ralsei was created by Kris? It would explain how he ends up in the next Dark Worlds, and why he resembles Asriel so much

[@ItsRuki]

yo might be true actually

[@exammole4545]

You said it way better than I did *o_o*

[@difyouknow]

No i personally think that ralsei is who kris wanted to be... I remember that kris wanted to be a goat when they was a child right?

[@weirdgaming996]

That’s what I thought

[@imacommentator]

Also his horns are pink and Tori mentions that Kris used to wear pink horns

[@rickstone5191]

I feel like in the instances in both games where Ralsei tells us to "concentrate on what Susie's doing" so he can presumably talk to Kris, he could actually be telling him to make these fountains! Maybe he wants Kris to create these scenarios to recruit more Darkners to his own Dark World back at school, and this will bite us in the final chapters? Just throwing something out there!

[@Hk-ox4bb]

Yeah and he gets pretty pissed of when we don’t

[@eldudemp6195]

What the heck, it actually makes a LOT of sense omg. Even if the story doesn't end up like this, we could at least have an AU made from this theory.

[@fabrimuch]

The only problem with that theory is that Kris still makes the dark fountain at the end of chapter 2 even in the Snowgrave route when he never gets the chance to speak without the player's influence

[@Hk-ox4bb]

@@fabrimuch yeah know, they definitely plotted but not about that That might also be a detail that Ralsei ignores

[@rickstone5191]

@@fabrimuch ahh good point! That probably rules it out, though I think he still is saying some important stuff when the player isn’t there, and I’m still in the “Ralsei is hiding something nefarious” camp, whether he’s a full bad guy or not

[@Alphard72]

In a way, of all the characters in Undertale, Ralsei has the most ties to Flowey out of everyone. Both have connections to Asriel, though we don't really know what the full extent of what that is in Delta Rune yet. But furthermore, and more importantly, both are the only characters to possess meta knowledge. Ralsei has certainly been more subtle about it than Flowey, but as mentioned Ralsei understands and speaks openly about game mechanics and seems to be attempting to steer the game a certain way. And it sure seems suspicious that his goal seems to be to dissolve all dark worlds and plug all dark fountains, except for his own. We have seen his castle town grow, but we are not permitted to see all of it. He has his own room, but we're not allowed to see it. And there's a locked door right in the center of it all, presumably leading towards his dark fountain, a fountain he can never allow us, the players, to reach. Ralsei's friendly, cuddly exterior may be his true personality, but I also wonder if it might be a weapon. Us, the players, are the biggest wild cards in these worlds. The characters of Undertale, especially Flowey, have tried many ways to influence the choices we make that have drastic consequences on their worlds. Perhaps Ralsei has a different strategy, to win us over, to get us, the players, to love Ralsei, to not even dream of suspecting the dear sweet goat boy. And so he is cute. He is kind. And he is always very, very, careful to be subtle in his use of meta knowledge, not to arouse our suspicions. To win our hearts so that we choose to help him out without thinking too hard about it. It may not satisfy Occam's Razor, but I really don't expect mere 2D Chess from Toby Fox.

[@thespeedyyoshi]

Whoaaa...wait I honestly really like this idea for one sole reason. It'd be "payback" for the "dark routes" we take. If every chapter after 2 has a "dark route", where we control another to do something terrible, Ralsei could be that final check, that last one that had turned out to be controlling US the entire time. To "help" him out.

[@Jahvorn]

Mr Spender

[@anythingyoucando1546]

A couple more things that comes to mind is, one, both Ralsei and Kris have a "heart" in their chest. One red and one black. Maybe Relsei is missing a "heart" leaving a hole there. In Undertale, the two children combined their souls together, but can something similar happen in Deltarune? Not the exact story, but a variation to it?

[@watermelon1339]

oh wow, I interpreted that scene with Ralsei not showing us her room as her caring about her friends more than herself (due to not having friends before) and finishing their rooms before her owns.

[@life_is_a_myth]

@@watermelon1339 Ralsei is male...

[@Mr-trololo]

Ralsei : "Let go of me I'm evil now! (Squeaky toy noises) Susie : " Like hell you are."

[@smiwey]

To everybody who questions why Ralsei doesn’t turn to stone in the other dark worlds, why does nobody else turn to stone in Ralsei's dark world?

[@plygem6927]

That isn't an answer But some saying that others don't turn into stone in the castle town as the castle town fountain is "pure"? IDK what the pure means maybe it the first?

[@mridhwanadnan7222]

@@plygem6927 you're driving me insane reading that

[@plygem6927]

@@mridhwanadnan7222 sry I am bad at English

[@churro1201]

@@plygem6927 by pure they mean the original fountain because ralsei's fountain is the original fountain he can go to other worlds and others can go to his world

[@plygem6927]

@@churro1201 Ohh ok

[@Marulauriu710]

Interesting...Ralsei might not be a lightener or darkner at all, maybe he's just a projection of Kris's mind trying to stop us, the player, from manipulationg Kris, or maybe Ralsei has been Asriel all along, only the future will tell us the truth.

[@conejitorosada2326]

Ralsei is a Darkner, He's made form Pure Darkness like how his Fountain is made from Pure Darkness. That's why every darkner can live in Castle town and why he can live in any other Dark worlds

[@JamAttack]

1: the other characters know and acknowledge that ralsei exists 2: Asriel is in collage, pretty sure. Ralsei does NOT look collage age, but I guess idk how monster anatomy works, still a far fetched theory

[@Marulauriu710]

@@conejitorosada2326 but it doesn't explain how he left his own dark world and went into the library one and how he knows so much about the light world (the school,kris,susie) The way he went from Castle town to Lancer's world is through the door in the east that connects the resupply cabinet to the unused classroom but there is literally no path for him to go from the school all the way to the library. Also it wouldn't surpise me if Kris, most likely being the knight, after creating a dark world has the power to at least project a part of his mind to take shape as a "semi-real" guiding figure that would resemble his brother. Idk this might sound somewhat stupid but it might hold at least a slight bit of truth or I am completely by 10 football fields wrong

[@hyliasknight]

The "Ralsei is Kris' horn headband" theory explains away 90% of the weird stuff in this theory. I'm glad you at least mentioned it, but still...

[@mr.cobalt1668]

I was starting to wonder if he was Asriel's shadow that Kris sees himself as living under but I like this theory too

[@tubebrocoli]

@@mr.cobalt1668 it could be both things

[@CreativelyJake]

yeah like... people arent suspicious of SEAM for LITERALLY KNOWING THE QUEEN, and us just handing him shadow crystals. how does seam know so much?? probably same reason, he was someones plush that was brought around, probably to the computer lab once. but i feel like a lot of "ralsei is suspicious" theorists are *really* targetting ralsei, and forgetting characters like seam

[@kama933]

@@CreativelyJake I'm guessing it's because Seam already had a weird and mysterious feel from the start, not to mention he was friends with Jevil so him saying weird stuff was to be expected. Ralsei on the other hand gave off a more cute and friendly vibe so we didn't notice anything weird until much later, and unlike Seam we know absolutely nothing about Ralsei which makes us question him more.

[@Daniel328DT]

@@kama933 I already knew something was weird when he quoted Flowey. Not only this, but the fact he is a prince without subjects. That's just strange, but yeah chapter 2 just makes it more weird.

[@giantmoth1287]

what is interseting is that other characters seem to almost ignore him, like the queen not mentioning his name when mentioning all others, or when doing the mouse puzzle noelle gave everyone a job but ralsei

[@megame5573]

As I recall, Queen forgets about him. She doesn't have a cage for him (and gives him a bowtie instead) and when fighting Giga-Queen, she says she can't remember his name.

[@emersonneoforces8589]

@@megame5573 "Hey, wasn't there a third gut?" Confirms it, another dialogue. "Kris,susie,the other guy"

[@KKarkatVantas]

I dont think he will be THE villain, I dont even think he will be bad, but he DEFINETLY is hiding something very important

[@yharim180]

@@8834 Ralsei is male

[@trashking471]

@@8834 People still think Ralsei is a girl??? 💀

[@panthekirb7561]

@@trashking471 People in this community go crazy over their headcannons.

[@nopiwasneverhere]

@@8834 are you serious or have I just met too many people who assume gender based on looks and do not know whether something is sarcasm or not anymore

[@pros_0143]

Something like "i thought i was doing the right thing but now the world is on fire lol"

[@Solibrae]

Well, the Darkners you bring into Your Town are called "Recruits", as if they are soldiers being brought in to fight a battle. But what battle, and who's side will they be on? At times, Ralsei seems like he's only being "nice" because he thinks that's the way he can make friends and gain allies. Seam seems to know much more than he lets on too, so if Ralsei is up to something behind the scenes, perhaps the old shopkeeper knows about it? Maybe we need the Shadow Crystals to stop Ralsei's plan.

[@thecharmer5981]

You could say it’s behind the seams

[@Solibrae]

@@thecharmer5981 *Proceed.*

[@MilkTeaMayhem]

@@thecharmer5981 Is it pronounced Shawm like the shopkeeper or is it pronounced seam?

[@thecharmer5981]

@@MilkTeaMayhem yes, to both

[@4ntok]

Secret ending Pog?

[@Tavdogg11]

The strange thing is that we forget some of the NPCs that already know our names. Taking of example the puzzle dudes near the beginning of the game that you pay 50 DDs to learn from. They seem to know your and Susie's name already, and I find it odd that they do. Maybe we should take that in mind for future theories.

[@averyjenson]

That is weird now that you mention it.

[@Mqstodon]

I mean eh They're actual tutorial nocs

[@MfwPrivate]

What about spamton? We never told him our name, yet when we go into his Shop and ask bout the deal, he'll go "KrIs!!! I knew you'd come...

[@tophatcat9996]

@@MfwPrivate well he's a computer program. Queen already knows their names because she's a computer and they've used that computer before.

[@mayaslootweg8586]

I just finished playing the game tonight and a detail that supports this is when you go back to the darker town, a character calls it (player name)town. I can't remember who said it but they were in the area with all the shops.

[@kaniikarma]

I feel like Ralsei won't betray us, but if he does, it would be because either Kris or the player's actions clash with his at one point, maybe having to do with the prophecy and the "angel," and not because he was the villain this whole time. I have a smol theory that has to do with the rug in Kris's room in Castle town, where his rug has the deltarune, except the triangles are the colors blue, pink, and green, or the colors of Kris, Susie, and Ralsei. I might be looking too much into this, but I find it interesting that two of the triangles pointing upwards towards the circle with wings (or I guess the "angel") are the colors of Kris and Susie, while the one facing downwards is Ralsei's green color. I have a feeling that because Ralsei's triangle is facing away from the "angel" as opposed to Kris and Susie who are facing it, we might see Ralsei betray us when sealing the final fountain that (may) appear in chapter 7, especially because the legacy states that the three heroes will "seal the dark fountain and banish the angel's heaven." Maybe Ralsei doesn't want Kris and Susie to seal the final fountain? Or maybe he doesn't want us to encounter and/or fight the "angel," if it is an actual being? Either way, I'm pretty sure that Ralsei doesn't necessarily have bad intentions; if anything, we might be the ones with bad intentions, especially since we're controlling Kris. It would be interesting to see how the next upcoming chapters play out though.

[@churro1201]

Kris and susie are at the top to signify lightener and ralsei is pointing down to signify darkener

[@ricardobr1493]

@@churro1201 True

[@hellegade4789]

There is a theory that The Angel is actually the player; I don't remember that much evidence but in chapter 2 there is a town member that tells Kris "let the angel guide your way"

[@anawesomegamer4429]

Well what if Ralsei is a fallen angel, and couldn't close the fountains himself, which is why he needed Kris and Susie. I made my own comment about what could happen, check the Recent Comments of this video

[@CassiDS]

Now that I think about it, most of Ralsei's perceived sussiness can be explained away if you pay closer attention. For example, the recruits show loyalty not to Ralsei, but to *Kris* - they call *Kris* "Boss" and they don't give two Maice's asses whenever Ralsei declares an order.

[@rigure]

Honestly, that just brought up MORE questions imo. Why DOES nobody care that Ralsei is a prince? Have we ever thought about that? Like, genuinely, can we talk about how no one seems to care about Ralsei's status?! I mean the town even holds your name. RALSEI'S town is named after the player. That whole area is Ralsei's kingdom, but everyone acts like we or Kris owns it! I don't think I've ever heard anyone, other than the coathanger acknowledge Ralsei's position as prince. In the area that Ralsei rules, people seem to pay more attention to Lancer, King and Queen being royalty, and completely ignoring Ralsei. Do you not find that the least bit strange?

[@alarmy5211]

he’s too soft to make his presence as prince known i think. it would fit with his general attitude with these things

[@rigure]

@@alarmy5211 Yeah, I also thought about that, but at the very least he told Kris and Susie, and I would assume that the others would know who owns that castle that's constantly there, so I just find it interesting that really no one cares..

[@controlbrains]

@@rigure Eh, people never really paid attention to Lancer either. No one liked him. They just acted like they did because they were forced to, and only listened to him because they were terrified of his dad. ‘Ugh, why does the king make us take care of his son? He’s not a bad kid, but he’s so weird, and it’s so…obligatory. It’s no wonder no one really likes him.’ And don’t forget: Lancer: Wow, I’ve never been on a team this big before! Ralsei: Don’t you have a legion of…various guys? Lancer: Yeah, but…my dad forced them to listen to me. So they don’t actually like me very much.

[@sugarette_burn]

"Boss" is not Kris, it's the player, try asking for meals in the restaurant in a full pacifist run. If I remember correctly, there is a meal for "Boss" and another for Kris

[@tatertots3337]

Ralsei walks with his hands behind his back like an anime scientist.

[@tvb5509]

The middle titan from Ralsei's tragedy prophecy looks a bit like Undertale's Asgore. Maybe Ralsei's a titan? Someone mentioned that he might be a bit of a rebellious child to a titan. Maybr he's first amassing an army to prepare for a confrontation with the titan. The legend said that the Delta Warriors could only save the world once it is about to fall, so... One major reason I believe Ralsei isn't paying about the Roaring is how he brings it up in the Pipis route. In a typical run it comes out of nowhere in a super sus way, but in Pipis route he instead brings it up in a pretty organic manner. He's acts genuinely shocked when the Queen admits she had no idea that would happen. I mean, did he *really* hide the roaring? He didnt elaborate on the specifics of it, but did say the Earth would begin to quake and crumble complete with imagery if the balance between light and dark was shifted.

[@TheBananaOverlord]

Ontop of that, the eye symbols on the middle titan are seen in Ralsei’s dark world

[@Xman34washere]

Ralsei Titan Shifter

[@averyjenson]

Yeah I agree, I feel that Kris or Ralsei being the villains would be too on the nose. They must be doing things to keep the player out of the loop for some other reason. There’s clearly much more going on.

[@gameingtothemax6266]

That's literally what I thought that he's a "titan" that doesn't want the world to crumble and I think the fountains actually reflect the will of their titan who somewhat reflects the will of their darkeners...but if a titan was formed with no darkeners...than they would be pure and unbiased and the fountain would flow with "pure darkness" allowing any darkener to live there since the fountain is unbiased due to the titan being unbiased

[@hellgazer8370]

@@averyjenson ralsei might have a secret, but he aint the villian. kris im not as sure about here though, since he actively creates a dark fountain without his soul. not sure if thats good for the enviorment tho...

[@starvein8841]

Two other (potentially) relevant things: Ralsei tries to convince *us* to focus on Susie during each chapter. When we pan back to the scene with Kris and Ralsei, clearly Ralsei has been talking to Kris about something. Ralsei is very aware of "our" presence and wants to talk to our vessel without our prying eyes. The flavored tea in chapter 2 lets you make teas based off party members, and they heal for a certain amount (seemingly by how much the drinker "likes" the tea based off of the party member). When Kris drinks the Ralsei tea, we heal for the lowest amount possible, indicating that Kris doesn't seem to like Ralsei.

[@roxinstarbreaker9458]

I didnt think of that! thats so cool

[@CaptainCoolzCT-]

Notice that when Noelle drinks Ralsei's tea, she says that THERE'S NOTHING THERE. That’s weird.

[@youngyen2089]

@@CaptainCoolzCT- she might not know much about ralsie

[@Sammy_The_Umbreon]

THATS what ive been looking for. I dont believe ralsei will turn out to be a major villain, but is working behind the scenes. He is aware of us (in chapter 2, when you refuse to switch to susie's pov, he keeps on pushing you to switch) and Kris doesnt seem atleast fond of him (I'm not saying kris hates him. But notice how most 'hug' and ralsei options have to be chosen by the player and are sometimes 'refused' by kris). There _is_ something going on.

[@thecatsatrick]

I feel this theory may correlate with the "Ralsei is what Kris wants to be" theory. It can certainly explain things brought up like ralsei being in the light world since he never was.

[@join4291]

yeah, the "Ralsei is what Kris wants to be theory" sounds good. The only off putting part to me is if Kris gives Ralsei the snow ring, Ralsei will ask, "Are you... proposing?" That's the only confusing part about the theory. Other than that, it makes sense.

[@tellmeninetails5819]

It would explain why ralsei makes chris' bedroom asriels side of the room. because chris wants to be asriel.

[@whocares9395]

I feel like Ralsei probably had an encounter with the mysterious man that Jevil and (I think) Spamton had met/talked to. Sure, it wouldn't explain everything, but it could explain why he knows some of the things he does.

[@keswickashness3165]

My suspicion is the "mysterious man" is W.D.Gaster.

[@rafaelrivera7594]

@@keswickashness3165 maybe but why would he be in deltarune also im kinda confused is mike the guy that spamton talked in the phone and the guy who told him his life is a lie or is he just the guy on the phone

[@feshpince7181]

@@rafaelrivera7594 No idea who Mike is yet, but Gaster would be in this game because he literally spread his existence across time and space when he fell into the CORE.

[@rafaelrivera7594]

@@feshpince7181 mike is spamtom ex friends and is theorised to be the tv in chapter 3 and is also theorise to be a game show host since jevil a hidden boss mentioned queen so it would make sense that spamtom another hidden boss that mentions a mike would mean that chapter 3 villains is mike

[@bloodrinker]

@@keswickashness3165 no

[@Minerbrick]

I think that Ralsei is Kris’s ideal self. Kris wants to be like Asriel in some way, because he was the “better” brother. So this could mean that Ralsei didn’t turn to stone and “teleported” because their Dark Fountain is Kris. Just a thought.

[@Snukkuri]

(thats like saying someone is their home)

[@user74359]

if that's true we will see ralsei again in Chapter 3

[@Eldani-xr1rf]

@@user74359 no shit

[@user74359]

@@Eldani-xr1rf im talking about ralsei's teleporting, last fountain created in toriel's house and ralsei is still on the closet, did you understand me?

[@averagegenzguy2751]

@@user74359 uh oh, Toriel's gonna see the femboy version of her son oh No

[@hy2rochlor1c]

Ralsei is the “prince of darkness” and not the prince of the first dark world, so i think he just “belongs” in any dark world

[@josiahball7799]

Ralsei saying that everything's alright after the [SPOILER] fight in the basement gives me the EXACT same vibes as "Everything is going to be okay" from OMORI.

[@edwardboland8957]

And as we saw in Omori, everything was most definitely NOT okay.

[@tbiff8048]

And then if Ralsei does turn out to be an antagonist of some sort... "Will you forgive me? My best friend..." *oh yeah, it's all coming together*

[@todimherbst]

Also I like how Sunny and Basil have a lot of in common with Kris and Ralsei. Y'know...mute MC with a knife and his sweet precious best friend. And let's not forget about symbolism of flowers in both of these games.

[@Kur404]

0:44 strong visuals also have the ability to make some people dizzy HAHAHA

[@Ultigom]

7:32 i would say ralsei's being dismissive and distracting, rather than gaslighting. he doesn't want susie and kris to think too much about what happened with spamton neo, and wants them to focus on cyber world's dark fountain.

[@Dr34myM3dxse]

I feel that Ralsei really cares about Kris, but not the player. Then, i think Ralsei starts noticing our prescence, acting colder toward Kris knowing its us. Maybe Ralsei wants to free Kris from our control?

[@dodsonboys]

I kinda feel the opposite I'm pretty sure he knows Kris is being controlled, and might be trying to get Kris to not do any wacky shit he might do if we lost control of him

[@AnnCatsanndra]

Ralsei mentions that Darkners that "don't belong" according to the will of the fountains are the ones that turn to stone. We know Kris is making the fountains, so if he wants Ralsei around, Ralsei will never be rejected by the will of Kris's fountains. It'ld be interesting if he were rejected by a fountain by Noelle though.

[@spectralaria8648]

Ive also heard that Kris hasnt been the one opening the fountains and only knew how after queen explained it

[@joshuacouture479]

@@spectralaria8648 but kris literally opened a fountain at the end of the game

[@spectralaria8648]

@@joshuacouture479 That was after Queen explained to everyone how to make a fountain, so maybe Kris wasnt the one who opened the fountain in the classroom or computer lab

[@joshuacouture479]

@@spectralaria8648 then what about when kris wondered off the first time at the end of the first chapter?

[@spectralaria8648]

@@joshuacouture479 I would assume kris just ate all the pie and went back to sleep, but its equally possible that they did or didnt open the fountain. Idk man go ask someone who knows more about that theory than I do

[@tekwizwa]

Ralsei is just a darkened variant of flowey: Uses kindness to manipulate Gathers everyone into one place Ties with asriel But I think the most damning evidence is that he’s the one who teaches you about souls and gameplay, just like flowey in undertale, can you imaging a version of undertale where flowey didn’t reveal his evil nature until the very end?

[@rafaelrivera7594]

Yeah his name is asriel just different order but why would toby make the second asriel the main villains twice in arrow and everything is differnt in this word so maybe its like this in undertale the one who teaches about the soul is evil but in deltarune the one who teaches the soul is a hero

[@hyperbuilder]

@@rafaelrivera7594 he actually said that the 2 worlds are connected.

[@Data-Expungeded]

@@hyperbuilder he said the two worlds aren’t the same but that doesn’t mean there aren’t connection not. “Yeah they definitely have a link.”

[@hyperbuilder]

@@Data-Expungeded link and connection can mean the same thing man lol

[@ospreysstuff]

it’s been a headcanon of mine that if ralsei DOES betray everyone in the classic evil tropy way, he will totally reveal himself to be flowey in disguise.

[@superspider64]

I think that it's not just going to be Ralsei that betrays you, I think it's going to be all 3 characters, we've seen that You the Player and Kris don't see eye-to-eye no matter which path you go down, so I theorize that if a fight with Ralsei does end up happening, it'll end up having Kris tear you out of him and the three of them either forcing you back or getting away

[@Tippex_Official]

Basically the player as a separate entity fighting the characters? Interesting.

[@DeerBonesBaby]

What if the end of the Weird Routes throughout the game ends with the player possessing the vessel that was made at the beginning of chapter 1? Like the player gets in the vessel and has to fight the main cast?

[@OTR0412]

Kris can’t survive without us he can barely move when we’re out of him he was scared after the spamton fight because spamton was a puppet too just like Kris and seeing spamtons strings get cut off and die Kris was scared of what would happen when we’re out of him

[@InfiniteThePhantomJackal]

@@OTR0412 While it's clear the Spamton encounter has deeply unsettled Kris, where are you getting the idea that it's about him dying from his strings being cut off? Nothing I saw in the fight leans towards that specifically.

[@OTR0412]

@@InfiniteThePhantomJackal I don’t mean death I meant he looked lifeless and empty he couldn’t move and just lied there

[@torgishness]

Maybe the reason Kris removes their heart is because it’s what gives the player complete control over them, and so they remove temporarily so that they can go do things without the player interfering

[@stevennobody]

Yeah, I imagine that the heart is literally us.

[@anachronity9002]

that's pretty much for certain at this point. The tricky part is why, if Kris can remove the heart, he only does it sometimes.

[@taddad2641]

its even possible that his heart had been replaced by our heart..... OOOH what if that is what is hidden away in that weird base thing? 'our' biody.

[@whiteface513abandonedchann8]

What I wonder is if we have full control over Kris, how do they move their arm like that to pull the heart out? Edit: fucked it up I know Kris isn't a he

[@bleachablemoments4618]

It's not even a maybe at this point, it's just a fact that that's why they remove their soul.

[@GoldKnightProduction]

On the topic of Ralsei's kind demeanor. Remember why Asriel kept fighting Frisk/Chara in Undertale? With forms like the imposing Omega Flowey, or Asriel "the ultimate god of hyper-death"? It's because he knows our dirty little secret; that this is a game for our amusement, and everyone else is just a supporting actor. He doesn't want us to win because then we'll be satisfied, and not want to play anymore. If we can't win, then we won't ever stop playing the game. Even then, we can still "rip everyone from this timeline" by starting the game over. And then what was the point in all that trouble? Ralsei said he thought the only way to be likeable was to be nice. He knows what can happen to those that get in the way of the player. And he doesn't want to get on our bad side. Ralsei's betrayal may not be *meant* to harm us, rather it will just be something we (as the player) wouldn't want. Something like an unwinnable/unplayable game. One that we will no longer have control over. Or a choice not to play. Perhaps even banishing us from all darkworlds; possibly with friends/family still inside. All for the sake of protecting them from the unstoppable, psychopathic living-god that we *can* be.

[@crosscharayt986]

Um.. Ok?

[@hellgazer8370]

edit: and probably eventually *will be*

[@nome]

maybe the angel's heaven is the player? "only they can seal the fountains and banish the ANGEL'S HEAVEN" if it is something else we haven't seen it yet, or i am just forgetting

[@Cpiyaphum1]

6:48 Ralsei is made from pure darkness

[@RichardthePWNman]

There’s so many layers to this after your explanation. I’m realizing that Ralsei may betray the player, but that’s not necessarily the same thing as betraying Kris and Susie (and vice versa).

[@kristinberthiaume7634]

Ralsei seems surprised every time we hug him. This makes sense, considering that we know, based on the tea, that Kris doesn't like Ralsei very much. During some conversations, Ralsei even seems to seek the player's approval. (This is how I interpreted the acid river swan boat ride.) He seems to prioritize appeasing the player, Kris's oppressive puppet, over Kris's own wellbeing. Doesn't seem very "nice" to me. If he's kissing up to the all-powerful player, this might explain why he asks us, "Kris, do you think of me as your lackey...?" It seems possible to me that Ralsei's betrayal will be against Kris and possibly other characters in favor of us, the player.

[@auramaster2068]

I think so too, Ralsei seems to know at least a little bit about the Player and all through chapter 1 is trying his best to be helpful to the player.

[@KabuMontasaurios]

Holy fuck that's scary

[@mageshades]

i feel like this is gonna age very well

[@toottootsonicwarrior5777]

Adding to your theory. Maybe he will spend the chapters secretly learning about souls, then steal us away from Kris at a crucial moment, and offer (or force) his own body as a vassel for us.

[@Cacemomarerona]

I actually think that Ralsei prioritizes Kris over the player, and that during the cutaways where the player is watching Susie, I think he tries to talk to Kris while he has an opportunity, to. This could also be a really neat idea for future chapters, seeing if ralsei will rebel against the player or not for kris’s sake based on the routes you’ve taken in the previous chapters!

[@maxzapsgamingzepzeap2337]

I honestly believe it's more likely the situation with the Player. Even if Ralsei is being shady, I simply can't see someone like him having anything other than noble intentions. Maybe he made up the Roaring so the Player would have something to do, to keep the game interesting so he could come up with a plan to get them out of Kris, or perhaps he simply hoped the Player was better than that, and didn't need the Roaring to play the game and hopefully afterwards, leave Kris alone

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

Many people do bad things thinking they are noble. Ralsie has shown they will not be submissive when it comes to their opinions... but if we found out Ralsei was wrong would Ralsei bend over? Thinking one is right can be a dangerous weapon in of itself...

[@ToastItalian]

I have a theory This connects to matpats chapter one theory In his theory, he says that the dark worlds are creations of kris's mind to run away from their problems, like the divorce, or being the only human in town and not fitting in, or asriel, his best bro (literally), leaving In his theory he said that the knight is Asriel, wich is the fear in kris's mind of Asriel being different, fearing that his brother is different In the theory, matpat also says that Ralsei is a projection of what kris saw asriel when they were both kids, and played in the dark world togheter, reason why he knows so much stuff, he's a projection of a memory (same reason of him not being "stoned".... I'm not sorry) This probably means that Ralsei started existing once the dark world opened, and being the only one who continued existing since he's an imaginary lightner probably I think that what he's hiding upstairs, the thing he hides, is that he's not gonna live trough, and tryng to find a "cure" to that Since he's a reflection of Asriel, maybe as soon as the real Asriel comes back, he's gone, the lie is gone Maybe his "Betrayal" is him tryng to keep kris in to save his world (since probably that world is gonna be gone with Ralsei too, because "the lies are over") While there are a bunch of things that i still can't explain, this is my theory MY *[hyperlink Blocked]* theory

[@darklink8423]

@@ToastItalian Good Teory

[@kshimo7]

@@ToastItalian bro youre basically calling it all a dream, i wouldnt use matpat theories

[@ToastItalian]

@@kshimo7 Idk it makes sense for once Yes most of these "IT'S ALL A DREAM/DEATH VISION" sound idiotic and That is when it's unfunded and there is nothing to aboard this claim, and yes there are some flaws now that chapter two is out but i think , but in this case we have direct evidence pointing at this theory But It's just a theory, i might be totally wrong (probably), but still i don't think sounds that far fetched

[@mrbeeman9459]

6:50 its because ralsei is (by what he says) the prince of the darkworld and seems to be more connected to the pure dark fountain than any of the others. We can insist from this that he is not truly bound to a dark world and thus can exist any dark world without to many issues

[@jadestormbringer3733]

this theory gives OFF vibes, with the fight against The Judge or The Batter, and the player controlling them

[@leonardomacsil1765]

Yeah

[@sunnivamhagatun]

even if ralsei turns out to be a villain i will still adore him :) my goat son

[@sindrevangenrobberstad2889]

Beloved goat boy

[@pancakesareawesome3121]

Honestly, since “the roaring” keeps showing up, I’m sure it’s going to happen at the very end. Surely it’s not going to just going to be a story that stops someone from killing them. If so, I’m so hyped for chapter 7 if we get to fight the titans :D

[@bagel4943]

EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS AT THE END

[@emma_stuart]

I love how your theory isn’t even based on any evidence in the game, but just on how narratives work and what you think Toby would have to do. I think that’s cool!

[@tdc455]

It seems like He's just trying to protect the protagonists...to be honest. I don't think Toby Fox would be so cliche with his plot twists.

[@sindrevangenrobberstad2889]

He even revealed Flowey as bad within the first two minutes of meeting him, perhaps because it would be too obvious of a twist later on.

[@genoc4ust]

yea, and people like queen also know mechanics and the locations of the light world as well

[@Nico_com_c]

He don't have to be really evil, just hinding something important or working for someone else. And he will probably get a redemption arc in some point, because he still is the fluffy boy in the end of the day.

[@pyritepanx]

Ralsei is gonna be a character we turn on because of our suspicions, and then realize ralsei is a good boy when it’s too late

[@sindrevangenrobberstad2889]

@@pyritepanx I'd be down for that. There are so many hints that Kris dislikes or is suspicious of Ralsei. I think Kris is going to take control away from the player at some point, and maybe even attack Ralsei, similar to how Susie fought Lancer.

[@erlouwer]

At the end of snowgrave route somewhere at the scene in front of noelles door ralsey also answers to something you decide with "wait, you weren't *supposed* to-" and cuts himself off. Weird

[@Mqstodon]

He doesn't?

[@erlouwer]

@@Mqstodon yes he does. Not sure when or where exactly, but he Definitelly does.

[@Gocial]

yeah this happens when kris is supposed to watch susie and noelle on the ferris wheel but there’s no cutscene

[@supremechaosbeing2696]

The reason ralsei knows that it's the east classroom is if we imagine the closet door and the spot of light that takes you to castle town to be the same place, then going to the east has both the door to the dark world (in castle town) and the east classroom (in the light world). Additionally, there is a door in east classroom that leads to the direction of the closet/castle town.

[@aka2384]

Good catch!

[@samuelfilho8317]

Still doesn't explain him in the cyber world

[@artition735]

this makes me wonder what would happen if that door to the left end of the school was unlocked? would just a way back up the wall be made or would a whole new dark world be created?

[@supremechaosbeing2696]

@@samuelfilho8317 yeah, I don't know

[@apollyonnoctis1291]

Maybe he hitched a ride in Kris’ pocket?

[@ZetaNiGHT]

Another piece of evidence you didn't mention for Ralsei knowing of the player's existence is when he tells Kris (or rather, 'you') to imagine Susie when she's in Noelle's room. When we cut back, Ralsei is saying '...and that's why, Kris.' All evidence points to Ralsei trying to divert the player's attention elsewhere so that he can talk to Kris, the REAL Kris, alone-- and my guess was that he's conspiring with Kris against the player's control over them. Something else to note is that Ralsei also ATTEMPTS this in Snowgrave, but the player's attention remains firmly fixed on the two of them. TBCH I have no idea what to make of this part lmao.

[@AbsolutelyAri1]

This is actually disturbing and now I feel kinda bad-

[@MarloTheBlueberry]

When does this happen in snowgrave?