WHY RYDER NEVER BETRAYED CJ & SWEET | GROVE STREET FAMILIES?

[@gaminginvestigators]

Thanks for valuable comments, guys! Once again, we are sorry about comparing weed to PCP.. We do realize that we are not experts when it comes to drugs or other fields that are mentioned, but we are always trying to provide you the best quality we can. And well, sometimes there might occur some mistakes such as bad pronunciation or the lack of knowledge, but we promise to avoid these situations as much as we can! 🙂

[@warfilmstudio3020]

I have one question. Why you founded this eglish chanell. ?

[@trey4319]

hey what mods do you use

[@pauljones364]

Wrote my comment before I read this 😂. Apology accepted, you must of got a lot of comments teaching you the difference.

[@DocCool94]

This explains why Ryder was never meant to be a traitor, I blame it all on Rockstar Games since they're the ones who drove Ryder's voice actor to quit. So leave it to them a-holes at Rockstar Games to ruin what was suppose to be the "Best PS2 Game of All Time". I really hope that somebody remakes the entire GTA: San Andreas game, but this time have Ryder not be a traitor, but more of an ally that'll help CJ throughout the game.

[@cloud67899]

Weed is pretty much underground coveted medicine

[@quitehat7819]

I had a feeling Ryder was never meant to be a traitor. He did mention a green saber until Big Smoke change the conversation. Him mentioning the green saber was kind of a clue he was speaking the truth and another hint he was never a traitor. Unlike Big Smoke who ALWAYS avoided the conversation about CJs mom and who killed her.

[@yuxomgaming9824]

He was also the most keen in the friend group when sending Ballas into their graves and hospitals. Really shows he was never meant to be a traitor unlike smoke who had many foreshadowing in his cutscenes.

[@romansionis2470]

His missions also were beneficial for Grove Street unlike Smoke's

[@yuxomgaming9824]

@@romansionis2470 yep, smoke was showing signs of being a buster in missions where he's involved. Ryder was being jealous of CJ because he wants to be recognized like CJ and prove he's as good as CJ too so it wouldn't make sense to make him betray without any reason.

[@bakihanma5849]

@@yuxomgaming9824 thought being jealous of cj's position was good enough reason for the betrayal. he always hated on him and really wanted to be recognized as sweet's right hand man at least but if sweet was ignoring this fact then ryder had reasons to betray them

[@yuxomgaming9824]

@@bakihanma5849 That doesn't make any sense. Ryder was jealous but doesn't hate them. He was clearly determined to prove to the Grove OGs that he's just as capable as CJ is. Betraying them will go against Ryder's ego himself.

[@extraterrestrial4597]

When a game still got controversies after 18 years, u know it's a gem

[@nah3826]

and doing these numbers of views sheesh... forever a classic

[@anthonysanabria7779]

💯

[@hannibalburgers477]

Not for the right reasons tho.

[@cleofortuin8475]

True

[@gottizway1375]

True

[@elperrodelautumo7511]

Ryder wasn’t meant to betray Grove street families. The fact that Ryder being killed off felt very odd. The last lines he had in the pier 69 felt like minor. Instead of understanding further why he decided to betray the families. Truly the beta draft would’ve had something different.

[@Carl_Johnson.]

He recorded new lines for the introduction

[@-_-Sggger]

Yeah it's like ryder put in all of this last-minute and crash pressured on him because the robbing uncle Sam and the heist mission

[@caracaes]

Also there's no death cutscene or dialogue for Ryder.

[@RaftFx]

I know right..

[@RaftFx]

@@caracaes ye

[@nickeloden891]

It's a shame that Ryder's entire character never got fully explored. He just felt like a character unceremoniously thrown in the trash by the 2nd act.

[@nickrustyson8124]

All for what, Zero's Missions, Driving School, Boating School? This game has so much bloat it's actually annoying

[@thebest-lp8sj]

@@nickrustyson8124 you realize that all of that is optional right

[@MatezAul]

@@thebest-lp8sj Imo @nickrustyson8124 meant that within the time constrains they had for the game development, they chose to add extra optional content instead of using that time to properly develop Ryder's story, which should have been a priority.

[@thebest-lp8sj]

Well ryder is not the only aspect that feels uncompleted in the game, there are missions that pop out of nowhere and dialogues that make no sense@@MatezAul

[@duffydreamer]

I honestly didn't want Ryder to betray us in the game, those missions we did for him, indicated that he was at least supporting Grove Street unlike Smoke but shockingly we see him reveal his true colours before leaving Los Santos....that was a huge disappointment.

[@seifeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

I didn't care much about Big Smoke's betrayal but Ryder... he has those best friend vibes with CJ, like you know how he is fucking with him all the time. At the time i thought it was shit writting that he betrayed GSF when all his missions were to help them. Makes sense that due to behind the scenes problems , they just said "fuck it" and killed him with the betrayal excuse.

[@katakurithecalamity9840]

the thing is in the green saber mission cutscene CJ don't acknowledge his presence and only talk about big smoke even after CRASH took him to country side he only bring big smoke to the argument not even mentioning Ryder

[@friedchicken5247]

What happen?

[@yuxomgaming9824]

He was even the one who revealed the green sabre, he was also the most keen on putting the Ballas into hospitals

[@ayo_tre7278]

They made Ryder betray you because Ryder’s voice actor got into an argument and he quit so he wasn’t there for anymore voice lines

[@smol_dude656]

The "can't stop me" line during Pier 69 was a cover up for a deleted piece of dialogue belonging to.. T-BONE. Initially it was T-bone who we had to chase, not Ryder. Also, an important thing is mentioned in the introduction of the game when Big Smoke talks about "putting a gun to a brother's head", which could imply that Lance was forced to help the Syndicate

[@CREOLEHEAT]

Smoke was talking about himself. He tried talking Tenpenny & Pulaski outta killing Sweet. What else would make him finally cave in

[@nickrustyson8124]

Which makes since given those lines sound very, getting shot and dying like

[@mitcheltheman1366]

Don't forget that the cutscene where Cesar claimed Ryder tried to bang Kendl came out of nowhere since there were never even any hints Ryder was attracted to Kendl at all, let alone try to bang her. If that were true, then Kendl would have told CJ and Sweet a lot earlier than that since she told CJ that she was being insulted by the construction workers. That's why it's called "SHOW, DON'T TELL!"

[@فهدالدوسري-ح6ض]

I don't think Ryder EVER talks about Kendl.. Like at all.

[@duffydreamer]

Yeah when Caesar said that, I was thinking 'Where the hell did that come from? And if he had tried something 'funny' why didn't Kendl mention it to CJ or Sweet earlier?

[@duffydreamer]

@@فهدالدوسري-ح6ض Nope! Not one word of Ryder ever mentioning Kendl at all.

[@gaminginvestigators]

True, mate 👍

[@malletUsergaming]

There doesn't need to be hints? Also there is many reasons why she might not tell sweet or CJ that, maybe she didn't know how to open up to them about such an embarrassing topic or could have been scared, she knew that by dobbing in Ryder could make things worse for her brothers sake but also her own. The construction worker incident was a different situation, they were insulting how she looked, not sexually abusing her.

[@LetsBarkAndRoll]

PCP is a hard drug lol, it makes people act impulsive and think they are unstoppable. Hence Ryders missions, like robbing the national guard.

[@dagroundbreaka]

Even his death scene was underwritten. I mean come on. Are we really supposed to believe that a gangster armed with an AK-47 would just jump into the ocean and attempt to escape via boat instead of actually using the weapon? Even during the boat chase, he isn't even trying to avoid getting killed. Worst sendoff to who is one of the most iconic characters of the game.

[@gaminginvestigators]

Sucks as hell..

[@raulperez3606]

Could also be that Ryder knew cj was a force to be wreckoned with n probably wouldn't be able to stop him.

[@andy34isabor89]

@nemo pouncey I think Eazy-e was killed by a stubbed toe after he got HIV. Shit put him down to 1hp

[@vgc_ivan8391]

Agree, out of the members Ryder had the worst ending. Even I wasn't happy when I first beat it

[@dylanmurphy9389]

@@andy34isabor89 it went down as a covid death actually

[@Dixi.normus]

rider had the best scene ive never forgotten. when he robs the fast food place masked up. and the cashier says "rider? not you again" and rider responds " it ain't me fool"

[@rayvenkman2087]

He should have died in the mission Green Sabre during the gunfight part. Would have made Big Smoke’s betrayal and Tenpenny’s actions all the more devastating by having a fellow homie die on you in a repeat of Brian’s death as well as more reason to get back at Tenpenny for costing you two of your closest friends. It could have been one of the worst betrayals because unlike Vice City or IV, you actually lose a friend through it and you’re left angry at the villains for the act. One that seriously has an effect on the player from then on.

[@gaminginvestigators]

Yeah! And funny enough, if that happened then the mission would be even more unique because each one of the OGs would end up in other situation - Big Smoke betrays, Ryder dies, Sweet gets in jail, while Carl is taken out of town. 🙂

[@ammagon4519]

@@gaminginvestigators that actually gives much more impact tbh, cause 2 characters betraying and Ryder is barely important in the betrayal has always bugged me.

[@MerlautJones]

Yesss, I've been saying the same thing!

[@comfy88338]

Exactly. I always pretend that he died in that shootout once Pier 69 is completed.

[@MrDmoney156]

same exact idea i came up with too! damn, we're better writers than Rockstar themselves lmao!

[@edgarruiz7094]

Big Smoke killing Ryder before or during the mission The Green Sabre would’ve made more sense than to just throw him into the plot as Big Smoke’s accomplice

[@nitrosodium]

I think because of the argument that happened between R* and Mc Eiht, R* wanted us to kill his in-game character. Kinda infamous but R* North has always had a harsh side. And there were time constrains, we can see the final missions part being far less developed and engaging than the first parts of the story. Big Bear had to have a major involvement here but it was scrapped due to time absence.

[@R1ckRossFromLatvia]

Was there any proof that there was a conflict between R* and MC Eiht? This things keep popping all the time, but without any evidence.

[@nitrosodium]

@@R1ckRossFromLatvia ironically there's more proof that there was no conflict

[@joshingram071]

MC Eiht was on tour the later part of 2004 due to him dropping a album which is why they changed around the fate of Ryder. Due to him not being able to finish his voice work

[@nitrosodium]

@@joshingram071 i never thought about that he had tour preps, anyway Ryder's betrayal ended up being rushed and lacking of drama.

[@gaminginvestigators]

Yeah, it's a pity that Rockstar couldn't like wait a bit for Mc Eiht to have more free time or arrange some better moment instead of saying that's all we wanted from you.. And as you said about Big Bear, presumably the storyline could also look much different with him having more involvement :/

[@SuperSalah116]

Fun Fact: Ryder wasn't meant to be a traitor in the game script

[@Vengeance10164]

Says who lol

[@waters228_91]

It's been proven that MC Eiht is actually cool with Rockstar and no disputes. So the more possible reason is that MC Eiht was likely just simply more busy with music during the game's production and didn't have time to record further dialogue. So the developers just improvised Ryder's betrayal without thinking it through. Also, keep in mind that Ryder ditching CJ in Home Invasion is just a mission failure, which aren't canon to the actual storyline. By that logic, Sweet would be considered a coward for rolling with Big Smoke and Ryder if the player fails the Drive-by mission, or the characters you kill in missions really are dead. It's why I made a rewrite showing how keeping him loyal can work.

[@FlowdeepTDKM]

You mean McEiht? xD

[@gaminginvestigators]

Yes, Mc Eiht being busy could also be one of the factors 🙂 Now about "Home Invasion", we do know that this alternative can be achieved only when the condition is met, that is mission failure. Nevertheless we thought that it would be cool to mention it as a curiosity and an example of how Ryder could turn back on CJ. But yeah, this alternative is not canon whatsoever. 😉

[@xxthepinoygamer1804]

Looks like,ive been seeing misinformation

[@FirebirdPhoenix87]

Wait, this is new. Edit: Source in vid. My bad. I'm glad someone reached out to him so we can have the answer.

[@arneshpal7702]

No

[@cursedhawkins1305]

A detail overlooked is the very clip in one of the introduction cutscenes, Big Smoke is speaking to Ryder in some kind of commanding tone and this tone comes up again when Ryder was going on about the Green Sabre "yeah but people like to TALK don't they" as if he's subtly telling Ryder to shut up or your dead.

[@gaminginvestigators]

Well yes, but in the end we decided to exclude The Introduction really as it was created very late in development when the new concept of Ryder being traitor evolved, thus it wouldn't be objective to the primal design of Ryder's story 🙂

[@cursedhawkins1305]

@@gaminginvestigators I think it's a detail that's worth bring up, Big Smoke was never going to be able to kill Sweet himself because he did have the Grove in his heart, the comment he makes of "having a gun put to someone's head wither a fool or wise" will always make them do things they normally wouldn't ever consider doing, something akin to blackmail which is what happens with CJ, Tenpenny was blackmailing Big Smoke to kill Sweet something Big Smoke himself could never bring himself to do at least not in a public fashion, having a rival gang try to do the assassination for him would be something that would save his neck and also satisfy whatever it was Tenpenny was blackmailing Smoke with. Big Smoke basically brought the topic up with Ryder and by doing so ended up dragging him into whatever it was Tenpenny was doing with Big Smoke, which is something Tenpenny probably didn't like if we take his character at face value.

[@gaminginvestigators]

@@cursedhawkins1305 We agree that this is a really valid point! However, we don't think it's useful to us because we were concentrated on early vision of Ryder's role in this game, not the one that is presented in the final product 🙂 But thanks for pointing this out nevertheless 😉

[@aussieknuckles]

Ryder betraying the familes is the most disappointing thing I've ever had to deal with in a GTA game, and as other people have stated, it didn't feel right.

[@Richnrollinbeats]

I honestly think the heartbreak in this game from some of the betrayal was ironically the cherry on top immortalizing the game

[@aussieknuckles]

@@Richnrollinbeats it definitely was, but it was still a shock. I liked Ryda up until he started weezling around with Smoke.

[@drigonfirefox]

Bruh I hate it because ryder looks so much like eazy that it just feels double fuckes up.

[@theinformationbomber7102]

yeah same here for me too

[@thehotbox7474]

Ryder shoulda died in the shootout. It woulda hurt CJ and drove him crazy for revenge.

[@IAMNOTRANA]

In my head cannon, Ryder didn't betray his gang. He was always lured by Smoke to join his side, but he didn't want to be part of it. He even kept a secret from Sweet about Smoke, maybe he had some hope that Smoke will return back to the family? He only went to the Big Smoke side after CJ came back and the jealousy went over his head. He is not a traitor to the gang, he is a traitor to CJ's friendship, which is pretty sad and actually fit the storyline.

[@kiappo142]

I’d rather see Ryder die in a cutscene where he is involved against smoke or the ballad then to see him betray us in a goofy way like this. They really messed up with such a good character

[@justchill1617]

Well thats rockstar i guess, having feud with the voice actor would have them feud with their respective game character as well such as avery, tommy, ryder 😔

[@aleksandar8225]

@@justchill1617 Nico bellic

[@appratows6795]

@@aleksandar8225 niko's va are not rlly in dispute with r*, even tho he got paid only a 100 grand for 16 months of va and mocap. The thing is he said that be sure what u signing up for. Cuz he signed a 100k pay contract without knowing how long he would work. He cool with r

[@Carl_Johnson.]

@@justchill1617 There was no damn feud smh know before you speak

[@justchill1617]

@@Carl_Johnson. well thats what they want you to think, of course they are making themselves clean, if you look closely you know there is a little bit of misunderstanding between the two especially when the in game character gets treated like that. So just to return it to you “understand before you speak”

[@bladez9326]

Ryder and Lamar roasting each other would've been the real deal

[@muvdafukupouttahere]

Not even Sweet acknowledges Ryder's absence and doesn't even know that Ryder betrayed him since CJ never mentions Ryder to him. It was as if they never even knew a person named Ryder.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Headcanon: The betrayal and death of Ryder is so painful to CJ that he essentially lied to Sweet about what happened to him off-screen, saying the Ballas or C.R.A.S.H got to him. It’s the only way that’d even justify the lack of a mention for Ryder.

[@someuser4166]

He never said "big smoke remember that name!" like big smoke so they forgot

[@muhammadfahimmansur2086]

A personal experience. The first time I played San Andreas, I skipped the cutscene where Ryder and Big Smoke were shown with the Green Sabre. Therefore, I never knew they betrayed the gang. However, as Big Smoke was mentioned a few times afterwards, I knew he was a problem. Suddenly in Pier 69 mission, Ryder appears and we are commanded to kill him. I was like, WHAAAAAAAAT?

[@jasonfring6584]

Skip 1 cutscenes = Skip whole story

[@markl5998]

Cant skip cutscenes

[@LScentral]

I think his addiction to pcp plays a lot into his character especially since they took a lot of inspiration from the movie South Central. I think his character was post to betray the grove originally but rockstar either didn’t know where they wanted the character to end up or just were messy with his story. Ryder is someone who’s down for anything ready to kill so makes sense for him to have his own well being first as well as smoking Ballas despite working with them.

[@gaminginvestigators]

Well, as far as The Green Sabre is concerned, we are sure that Ryder wasn't meant to become the traitor, at least in our opinion. But as you said, Rockstar North probably wasn't sure how to continue Ryder's story when Loco Syndicate thread came to their mind. And well the point that they were messy with the story is well presented here, they didn't think this through. They decided to slowly introduce the whole new concept instead of making changes earlier in the story. As a result we can clearly see how many mistakes they made. We think that they should have kill Ryder under Mulholland Intersection instead of forcibly making him the traitor. Thanks for the comment and good luck with your videos 😉

[@kickdoor700]

i mean yeah but just look at the game past the underpass shootout, i think rockstar ran outta money so he became an expendable asset

[@PremierAutoMan86]

It's clear Ryder was never meant to be a traitor. There was a financial dispute between MC Eiht (his voice actor) and Rockstar and he left during production. Notice he has little dialogue after the green sabre and is relegated to a minor character in the 2nd half of the game despite playing a large role early in the game.

[@Wsttp400]

"water" is a reference to PCP or Sherm. It was commonly smoked by gang members in the 1980's and 1990's to put in work. Crip founder Tookie Williams was a notorious Sherm head which is what caused him to kill random people during a robbery of a motel.

[@MrAfusensi]

Yes, comparing it to just smoking joints like the video did is wrong.

[@AK-sx4zp]

@@MrAfusensi woah, I thought it would be like an enriched joint/blunt. Not a whole trip like you say

[@plasticsaint]

@@AK-sx4zp it's a dissociative, it basically makes you see the world from outside of your own body

[@BrownPatriot316]

7:39 he literally has the definition of “water” in the video

[@rickydo6572]

Man, how did they manage to put so many awesome characters into one game? Just Ryder and Big Smoke alone places this game so far ahead of most games, and they're not even the only iconic characters in the game.

[@markl5998]

Ryder is iconic

[@khat_1001]

Honestly, Ryder was done dirty in both GTA SA and IRL (his VA to be specific). I wish that there were some missions where Ryder helps you in taking down The Loco Syndicate or aiding CJ's growth. I also might get some flack for this but hear me out, I want Ryder to be dead (an honorable one of course) Like he gets shot badly in the last mission, makes one last sacrifice to save CJ, and have a bit of a cut scene of his funeral. In my opinion, I wish we get to see Ryder help CJ during the San Fierro missions.

[@Mirra2003-f9s]

I agree.Instead of making that crappy Pier 69 mission they could have used him as your ally during The Green Sabre and just have him die in a fight with the ballas or make the police take him down when they arrive.Not to mention he didn't even get to have a dialogue with CJ before his death like Smoke had.Even Jizzy had a cutscene and he was not as important

[@khat_1001]

@@Mirra2003-f9s If GTA SA ever gets remade (Which I doubt cause we don't even know when the hell GTA 6 will come out) it'd be a tearful moment if Ryder ever dies.

[@gaminginvestigators]

And that really sucks! Who knows how far the developers could go with Ryder in the storyline if this turn of events didn't happen. As many other people mentioned, if they really wanted to end up Ryder in Los Santos, he should have died in the battle under Mulholland Intersection..

[@ameEeeee3]

What he did irl?

[@nathanmarshall745]

The VA did come back for gta v on the lab radio station and sings welcome to los santos, he even calls the station in game to request it, so we at least know he didn't leave on bad terms

[@iepurele344]

Daamn 6:26 that was my message to him cuz I was curious af, I can’t believe it actually got somewhere. Thanks for including that in the video!

[@gaminginvestigators]

And we are glad that you tried to get response from MC Eight! It is very valuable to the whole thread 🙂

[@Shushkin]

It is pretty amazing how you can put out such high quality videos as often as you do.

[@gaminginvestigators]

Thanks a lot! 😊

[@pokebag]

Makes me sad that Ryder was a traitor, he was my favorite character in the game

[@namesurname5613]

Honestly, rockstar could just kill ryder during the mission green sabre when there is shootout on intersection, this could make us as player to be more angry on big smoke

[@ChampagneGars]

Ryder was as genuinely hurt as Sweet when CJ left, while Smoke was the only one who was alarmingly nice and all

[@nolimitkhris9598]

I think the line Ryder says on the pier “Can’t stop me” sounded like that because maybe they were trying to indicate that he was under the use of drugs because after all crack was what really made Grove St and the whole Los Santos fall apart so MAYBE Ryder was just in it for the drugs also CJ clearly calls him a sherm head which is another way of saying crack head so who knows but I definitely think that’s an excuse to find a way to kill off Ryder because it was such a last minute decision like his death didn’t even have a cutscene or nothing, just an explosion and mission passed but I think Ryder shoulda stayed alive he was the coolest nigga there

[@gaminginvestigators]

Hmm, that could be the reason of modified line, like a side effect of "water" abuse 🤔 However, when it comes to Ryder getting into the deal with CRASH for the sake of drugs, this sounds rather trivial. What we mean is even if he did enjoy drugs as much as we assume, would he really want to work with Ballas? A gang he hates ever since? Now about CJ's lines towards Ryder after The Green Sabre thread ends, well as we said developers could tell CJ's voice actor anything they want him to say, regardless of what he thinks or what they want. But yeah, as you said, it's clear that this whole mess with Ryder's character wasn't done on purpose, it's a huge act of desperation and bad way to end a good character..

[@calcium5063]

A sherm head is a pcp addict not a crackhead. Crackheads are known as base heads

[@e195087]

I've seen somewhere that his voice is like that because he was in the place of T-Bone in that scene, where he is injured and walking to the fence while saying his final lines. Meanwhile, T-Bone is the one escaping in the boat, but this was apparently only in the beta.

[@michaelwilson9184]

Bro its not cracked its pcp

[@pa.encema2821]

The aftermath with all those cops were the worse

[@shadycipher2923]

Ryder became an enemy because MC Eiht(voice actor of Ryder) and Rockstar had a conflict

[@jaysteele6356]

In the first mission of the game, when they leave the graveyard the Ballas only shoot at C.J. and Sweet and not Big Smoke and Ryder. It really makes me wonder how did they get the drop on them at the graveyard? 🤔

[@NixonsHead]

"Oh MUTHAFUCKA my CAR!"

[@SOBEKCrocodileGod]

Pronouncing MC Eiht as “McKate” had me laughing

[@ReventonSpeed]

When I think about it, nobody was more harsh on CJ than Sweet was. While he did take jabs at him periodically, he was the next one after Smoke to really welcome CJ back. In contrast, there was damn near nothing CJ could do to make Sweet happy. It was like nothing was ever good enough. CJ would follow Sweet’s orders, only to then get his face shoved in the metaphorical dog shit. If you think about it, CJ and Sweet’s relationship was rather toxic. Most of the time it was characterized by CJ just trying to win Sweet’s acceptance back, a literal slave to Sweet’s approval. Ryder on the other hand just doesn’t have this same level of toxicity that Sweet did. This has always lead me to the belief that Ryder was never meant to turn on CJ in the first place, but rather his betrayal was a completely manufactured one, and might I add it was a very sloppily done one too.

[@o_huskywolfdean7]

I totally agree with that, he never seem to appreciate or thanks CJ for bringing hood back together. Sweet always seem to put CJ down all the time, he mostly blame hi for everything what went down. Even with Sweet got release out of the prison, he still treated CJ like trash as Sweet thinks that all the thing CJ did. Was all for CJ benefit and not for the hood. Sweet is really a ball breaker.

[@Cartifan100]

It’s obvious Ryder was forced into it, if not that then it’s probably because rockstar had to change up like half of the GTA Sa’ story because Aaron Tyler, better known as Mc Eiht had his mind on other things besides rockstar.

[@RTX6969]

when i killed ryder i feel like i lost someone who is so close to me

[@bruceaskew2107]

Frfr

[@JustBored604]

Ikr

[@LouLou-ft8yp]

💯

[@Zehahahahahahahahahahahaha]

I feel you

[@Idontlikeanyoneanywhere]

7:16 Correction, he’s smoking joints dipped in PCP. That’s what a “shermhead “ does

[@paulgeorge7639]

Ryder only did all of that because Grove Street when CJ was gone is already losing control in Los Santos. Ballas is the most powerful gang who has the control before the start of the missions. Thats why Ryder and Big Smoke maybe tried to negotiate with Ballas to save the small part left for Grove Street.

[@TimmHenson]

calling MC Eiht (Emcee ATE) "McEight" (Mac-EIGHT) is so distracting that I had to go back and listen to the sections again to deal with it. pretty funny. Overall this is a conspiracy I definitely think might be true. Great video.

[@gaminginvestigators]

Thank you, Timm! 🙂

[@missvalerie4040]

I still think Ryder would’ve been a great protagonist. There were problems with MC Eiht. I don’t know how far Rockstar was, when MC Eiht left, he could’ve been replaced.

[@Carl_Johnson.]

There weren't problems with the VA, That's just speculation not facts

[@deshawnanderson7777]

He didnt leave didnt u see the video rockstar told mc eiht they were done with him that he was good to go

[@Underground187]

He didint have problems with them, he worked on album and had to do concerts. He even thanked Rockstar for the opportunity they gave him in some interview a few years ago!

[@Sabbie07]

This actually makes sense because Ryder's missions were important to grove street

[@Xegethra]

Yeah the whole traitor angle seemed haphazard and rushed. All the riffing he does to CJ doesn't mean anything, friends rag on each other all time, even have disagreements, doesn't make them enemies. I'd like a re rewrite of the story that reverts him back to never being a traitor....won't get it but I'd like it.

[@BlackLotusVisualArchive]

Someone could do it in DYOM

[@adorenu1338]

@@BlackLotusVisualArchive there is a mod for that

[@nickrustyson8124]

I kinda want to write a fanfic that's a rewrite of the game's wholestory, mainly because I have a lot of problems with it, Ryder's Betray, Photo Opportunity, Zero's Missions, now that I think of it, I just don't like the San Fierro part of the game

[@markasscop]

there is this interesting line in one of the later missions with Ryder where CJ says something along the lines of "you're going to regret messing with me", which feels like it's foreshadowing CJ eventually killing Ryder really curious to know the intention behind this line if Ryder wasn't originally going to betray us, or maybe it was added in later, who knows

[@erikurizita6702]

Ryder is a common tale in real life. someone who just happened to witness the wrong thing at the wrong time, and in hopes of just keeping everything status quo, they just keep trying to move on. it rarely works, but it's so common.

[@howardmctroy3303]

The conversation CJ and Cesar have at the beginning of Yay Ka-Boom-Boom is the only time anyone talks about Ryder at length in the post-Los Santos Missions. Apart from that, his entire arc is just riding the coattails of Smoke's betrayal.

[@Samuel-ym8wz]

You know pcp is a different drug right? Wet/water is another name for it. Also him being called a shermhead. Hes high in a completely different way than just a joint. He was even cooking up stuff in his house and gave some to tenpenny. Not really a sign hes a traitor but that part of your video missed the mark completely.

[@plasticsaint]

did he edit the video to mention PCP or something?? I keep seeing these comments but he talks about it in the video

[@lazygirl5653]

@@plasticsaint more that he seems to treat PCP as like something that's not a hard drug and that stuff will completely screw you up

[@Samuel-ym8wz]

@@plasticsaint sorry for late reply. It sounded like he didnt really know what pcp was and thought it was something like marijuana. When it's a far harder drug and at least on the level of crack if not worse. I think he made a comment that apologized for getting it wrong. That's cool of him to do.

[@burnieemac]

he said “McEiht” like he’s on the mcdonalds menu haha

[@hishamhilal8332]

Its a shame that because of incomplete writing and voice actor disputes that rockstar had to tarnish the reputation of this otherwise decent character

[@Underground187]

There were no disputes between them and Mc eiht

[@coqui8861]

this is the greatest youtube video i have seen all year this is my 2022 video when i think back to this year

[@gaminginvestigators]

Thanks for this words man!

[@karabancha]

I personally believe that Ryder was always meant to betray CJ, but missions that explained Ryder's motives behind why did he do that were were cut because of size limitations of PS2. Also, I think that personal relationships with Rockstar and Ryder's VA were pretty good because he made a track specifically for GTA 5 (Welcome to Los Santos)

[@gaminginvestigators]

Well, at least we tried to convince you 😃

[@Replicatte]

@@gaminginvestigators Let's not forget that on The Introduction where Big Smoke persuaded Ryder into joining him and Ryder accepts the offer. Its actually hard to pinpoint if Ryder was ever meant to betray the Grove Family or not. On the one hand, I can definitely see why we as fans don't want to see our Meme Lord die in a underwhelming way, but I can't ignore on how he could be one of the traitors to save his own skin. This may be a mystery that can't be solved.

[@Zehahahahahahahahahahahaha]

Ryder was always meant to betray CJ? You lack common sense homie 🤣

[@karabancha]

​@@Zehahahahahahahahahahahaha Well it was a theory until GSG leaked San Andreas source code. I didn't see new videos about Ryder's betrayal after the definitive edition's release (with new info), so this video is kinda true now?

[@yuishishido8780]

So, a bit of background information. It was never intended for Ryder to be a traitor. However due to events outside the game, the voice actor for Ryder was no longer able/willing to continue. As such they had to find a way to remove him without the needing to record new dialogue.

[@Zaleoritov]

C.R.A.S.H. even talks with Sweet, in the mission "Doberman" when you first receive Sweet's phone call and you are handed the mission he mentions that C.R.A.S.H. told him about the Grove Street member who apparently switched sides to the Ballas(if i remember correctly) So by that logic Sweet also be a traitor, since Tenpenny directly spoke with him

[@gaminginvestigators]

Pardon us, but we don't really understand what you mean here :/ CRASH had a chance to talk with every OG of GSF: Sweet, Ryder, Big Smoke (2x) and us (CJ). Now in the "Doberman" mission Sweet doesn't really point out that he received this information from CRASH specifically. Well, the thing with "Doberman" is much more complicated because there were like at least 3 different versions of it throughout development. All in all, we know that Tenpenny came by to Sweet thanks to "Los Sepulcros" quest, but would this really indicate Sweet being traitor? Especially considering that he's anti-drug guy and so on? Please explain this to us further 🙂

[@DigaRW]

@@gaminginvestigators He might mean it's counter argument with what you describe Ryder relation with CRASH could mean betrayal. If it was like that, then Sweet also should considered a traitor because he spoke with CRASH. So with CJ that often work under their control. What I'm thinking about CRASH relation with Grove Street gang is actually just because CRASH trying to control gang crime by balancing each other while taking benefit from it. It's worth mentioning that Tenpenny gave a mission to CJ to infiltrate Ballas gang dealing arms exchange with Russian because it's dangerous if it let them out of CRASH control. Ballas might be gone rogue and ruined Tenpenny plan. So in scenario in Catalyst, CRASH just give a tip to Ryder because they knew Grove Street need weapons.

[@jmajlesnaber3041]

Imagine if ryder didn't betray cj, he will be cooking water at the garage in sf and annoying the whole crew because of the strong smell

[@NathanHoLLiday]

Good video! But its (Emcee)😂

[@derekgardner6601]

You know, looking back, of all the characters in the entire game, Ryder is the most difficult character to analyze. Talk about unpredictable.

[@plasticsaint]

that's PCP for ya lmao

[@wasabi5338]

he's a mofucking genius

[@YoUnGgUnNa360]

Great video but LOL at "Mick Eight"

[@duyhientran8362]

The reason why Ryder betrayed the Groove is simple, he shared the same opinion with Big Smoke but not with Sweet. But while Big Smoke acted strangely in the beginning, Ryder was mostly a silent viper. He rarely showed sign of betrayal, this explain why in the original version of the mission "Photo Opportunity", CJ was much much more surprise when he see Ryder in the deal. My theory is that CJ probably forgot about Ryder or though that Ryder is probably dead when Big Smoke and the Ballas took over (remember that in the "Green Sabre" mission, CJ NEVER mentioned Ryder for once, so I think that Ryder wasn't suppose to appear in that mission, rather the Photo Opportunity one).

[@gandalfthegrey8236]

Simply dumb

[@1218cody]

Lol when Ryder said you can't stop me I thought he was meant to sound high or drunk

[@Dziugasc]

I actually love ryder, he is such loyal grove street member good character and they just cut him like that.

[@duffydreamer]

I honestly thought that was bull**** that suddenly they let him betray us like that.

[@Glooooooooed]

One believe is that Ryder found out what smoke is doing and is pressed by smoke to keep quiet, and the reason why Ryder is friendly but act harshly towards CJ is because he tries to push CJ away from grove so as not to be used by smoke and crash while not making it obvious to smoke what he's doing. In the mission drive-thru, Ryder can be heard dropping hints and clues about the green sabre while smoke is trying hard to disprove it while in a way, intimidates Ryder so he knew his place.

[@phutran2429]

When I first play San Andreas and do mission with Ryder, I was like “this is a cool guy”, but since the game start to show that he’s a traitor, and then force me to kill him, my will of finishing the game story goes down drastically.

[@shlomogoat1267]

This is so true, the story was good written until that moment like why he died in such a stupid way

[@rayshawnsmith3685]

I hated the fact that Ryder and big smoke betrayed grove street.

[@AJ_079]

Tenppeny also visited sweet to inform him about the ballas’ funeral

[@duffydreamer]

I actually found it odd that Tenpenny went to see Sweet about that.....like what else could have been going on as well?

[@lucascorreadl]

Great video, but only one detail: Rider smokes Blunts and not Joints, there is a huge difference between them, and you can even hear them talking "that will be a great story when we are passing the blunt" after you save sweet from that motel trap.

[@jzawh]

Ryder smokes PCP “sherm” “water” not joints they’re dippers (tobacco or marijuana cigarettes dipped in pcp) you see him cooking it up out of ether and other pre cursors in the earlier missions. It’s what he digs his back yard up for….

[@valleykilladude]

he is smoking blunts dipped in pcp

[@DaPaperboy]

Fire Video!🔥

[@arreeseking6427]

The reason why Ryder showed betrayal later in the storyline is because, his Actor left off at that point

[@blazegorgiev7076]

I like your channel good job

[@JMusar795]

This channel is great; keep up the good work!

[@khrashingphantom9632]

Mc8. ROFL. It's pronounced M.C Eight, BUT now that you've said it like that I can't un-hear it. Lol. Fantastic videos so far. Your deep dives into the GTA lore has been both entertaining and informative. Thanks for posting.

[@abskhairoun]

What tipped me off was the drive thru. Ryder talking with his homie, and smoke shutting him up. Also in robbing uncle sam, on the way to emmet the line "you don't know what's going on" might be vague but it has meaning

[@gaminginvestigators]

Well, about the Green Sabre we think that it is pretty obvious that Ballas weren't going for some old lady, but the OG instead since what would be the point, right? While the quote "you don't know what is going on" could be interpreted in many ways really. For us it could mean that Ryder is trying to raise CJ's awareness of the weapon problems GSF currently has.

[@abskhairoun]

@@gaminginvestigators yeah, I never saw ryder as a traitor to CJ or GSF, but the game was written in such a way you know 1 of 2 things is true, ryder was acting, or rockstar sucks. I think we all know which statement is true

[@bruceaskew2107]

This was a dope ass video bro , I never looked at it like that perspective 💯 It's pronounced m c 8 you say m c like emcee 😎

[@terrymorgan5304]

Not to sound like an ass here, but the rapper's nickname is pronounced "EMCEE Eith", not "Mac Eiht". That said, I definitely agree that Ryder's betrayal was not written well at all. The best you will ever find a story showing Ryder with a more notable role is in the rewrite version of the storyline in Fanfiction. It especially did well in making Ryder more useful in that version.

[@BrickedUpp]

This isn’t a person talking. It’s a text to speech like the annoying Tik Tok voices.

[@BrickedUpp]

Or if it is a person they’re probably not the actual owner of the channel and just a VA hired for this like what channels like Looper and other larger channels do

[@arthurmorgan670]

@@BrickedUpp Sounds too fluid to be a text to speech. Don't know where you got that information from.

[@BrickedUpp]

@@arthurmorgan670 they’re getting really good actually. My reasoning is that every word this channel gets wrong are the same words other text to speech programs get wrong. They normally can’t pronounce things like common English last names or nicknames yet don’t speak with heavy foreign accents.

[@arthurmorgan670]

@@BrickedUpp Ah I see where you're coming from about it. I've noticed it in some of his other videos now that you say it.

[@o..o5480]

When Ryder didn't get back with backup, he mentioned calling Smoke. Smoke was probably in on the attack so he decided to stall Ryder to increase their chances of winning.

[@gaminginvestigators]

This might explain why Ryder didn't come back 😦

[@99mrpogi]

Like smoke is probably pressuring or threatening Ryder into joining the ballas...

[@NixonsHead]

@@99mrpogi Like suge knight(big smoke) threatened eazy e(ryder) in real life.

[@UndyingZombie]

When I first played GTA SA.. I thought that Ryder betraying was a bit off. That it did not quite fit.. But I shrugged that off. Upset that he would betray his friends like he ultimately did. Loyalty means a lot to me, both when it comes to family as well as friends. It was another reason why I never looked at Vance's character from GTA VC the same after that point in the game. Both GTA VC and GTA SA still remain as my all time fav GTA games. Granted I have oddly not played much of GTA 5. I have it.. Just for some reason I keep putting it off.. I did some missions but other things distracted me I guess. Its currently the only GTA game I have not played to 100%.

[@Randomturtle001]

I think Ryder calling CJ a buster was him projecting as he would run away in intense situations. Then over time through the story would become on the level of CJ. If the rumour I heard that SA was supposed to have 3 playable characters originally, it would make sense for them to be CJ, Caesar and Ryder. Where once past the initial few missions would all have their own missions to do.

[@syahrulshiddiq9733]

The author should write a book of the true story of GTA San Andreas, when Ryder never betrayed GSF. I think it will definitely sells. Or better yet, make it into a movie?

[@akemimcflyclips7130]

Damn San Andreas with that Borderlands-like graphics filter look so good.

[@reinholdamanpal4735]

Hopefully there will be a bunch of people to put up a stories version of GTA SA or to make another one where Ryder is actually the original one where he ain't forced to 'betray' , like yeah it may take some time because most of the missions in SF had him mentioned, like the Pier 69 or Photo Opportunity- but man, i would imagine some funny things with Ryder breaking through Area 69 for the jetpack, or maybe the casinos, or even the final missions

[@gaminginvestigators]

This is a great advantage of modifications 🙂 Thanks to them we as players can make our assumption dreams come true, we can let our imagination go as far as we want. Unfortunately recently Rockstar stopped being too kind to the community when it comes to moding..

[@NixonsHead]

GTA San Andreas made into a single season series. Nice dream but knowing hollywood today they would find a way to make it trash.

[@N2itionMusic]

I feel like Ryder was just trynna save himself. He wasn't really a traitor he was just trynna survive.

[@mihaaai7834]

Great job guys, keep us up with more content! 👌👌

[@ki_Cp]

What is yo set 🖐🙌👎👍👉👈👌✌🖖🤘👎✊

[@gaminginvestigators]

Thanks! :)

[@samdakid6559]

The fact that Big Smokes initials were BS should’ve let us now back in the day what he was about 😭

[@JuriSins]

Ryder should've never became a villain. Like Imagine if he was with CJ through the whole story even after being arrested by Tenpenny and their best friend dynamic growing much more! Rockstar robbed him :( Easily one of my favourite GTA characters.

[@duffydreamer]

There would have been more hilarious dialog between CJ and Ryder....if only....

[@corbinnasby9303]

it is mentioned that Ryder smoking, the "water" reference is also what "Sherm Head" means

[@GarkKahn]

I mentioned it before but the part after the green sabre mission was always: Smoke this, smoke that, smoke again, oh look we must kill ryder

[@Muhfariztopvideosshortsstats08]

“Where is Lance Vance in GTA SA?” - Lance Ryder Wilson (Lance Vance’s Grandfather), 1992

[@SuperKillersz]

I always wondered why cj never mentioned Ryder during the green sabre mission

[@gaminginvestigators]

we hope we explained it well 😄

[@duyhientran8362]

@@gaminginvestigators Ryder wasn't in that mission originally, in my opinion. He was suppose to the other surprise betrayal (the first was Smoke), as can be heard in the original voice of CJ in the mission Photo Opportunity.

[@XaneOTB]

Bro said mceight like mcdonalds his name is M.C EIHT Lol

[@harshkumarnonia6614]

Wow !! Literally Amazed by the extent of research made... You deserve more subscribers Man ! Love from India 🇮🇳❤️.

[@editedrectangle1385]

Both big smoke and ryder are like the icons of san andreas after CJ I really hoped they didn't betray CJ for just some cash and power But oh well,san andreas has a nostalgic feel to it that never gets old Flying a plane or going on road trip in Las venturas during the orange evening atmosphere,driving along the state in that highway that connects all the 3 islands Just good memories

[@yoyopopboy]

Imagine a true remake of San Andreas where the choice you make at the beginning determine whether Ryder turns bad or not.

[@felixalfaro3610]

First time I saw Ryder I was like “Eazy -E is in this game? Wth”

[@twankistevenson3884]

There's "hazing" your friends and then there's being a complete asshat towards someone. Ryder's attitude towards CJ from the word go is disrepectful and abusive and not in "just messing with you bro" way either. The fact that Smoke chides him about saying too much about the Green Saber and letting the cat out of the bag when all 4 are in the car in a early mission PROVES Ryder was in it up to his neck in the betrayal from the word go, I'm guessing M C Eiht got on board knowing his character was supposed to be a villian but was determined to try and make R* change their mind and change direction with the story and make his character a protagonist rather than an antognist and R* were having none of it

[@gaminginvestigators]

Hello! Well, we do see your point, bro. We understand that this rude behavior of his might be straight crossing the line. Actually, there will be a video soon which touches on this subject. Now let's talk about this green sabre being mentioned in "Drive-Thru" mission. Yes, it could be surprising that Ryder knows about it and knows who was the target. However, is it really hard to figure this out for yourself? A hit on elderly woman doesn't give any benefits except for a bigger beef between the gangs. We think that it's rather obvious that such set up was planned to get rid of one of the OGs since they are quite important pillars of the whole organization, this move would weaken the gang instantly. And depending on the target, the effects will be higher or lower. In this case, getting rid of Sweet would be crucial to Grove Street Families because he is the leader and Big Smoke was ready to take the lead and get into drug market. And well, the thing about MC Eiht being determined to convince Rockstar North to change the plans sounds a bit ridiculous. The voice actor has nothing to do with the script, he only reads the lines. He might suggest something by himself, but that's about it. They are paid to read the script throughout recording sessions, nothing else. We hope that this reply clarified these issues a bit 🙂

[@WorldWalker128]

It's hard for me NOT to take their railing on him personally. My name IS CJ. My parents found that hysterical and my brother frequently reminds me that 'all I needed to do was follow the dang train!'.

[@mybirthwasamistake]

Another thing that worth mentioning that Ryder always obey Sweet's order and policy and also Groove st law and rules. He never arguing with Sweet during the game. Unlike Smoke, Smoke is the only one who pushing the usage and the trade of heavy drug, often confronting Sweet about his anti-drug "policy" and even in certain cutscene He often questioning Sweet's leadership within the Groove st.

[@cxssetteman182]

I just see Ryder as a harmless Rebel. He had always been the one who was most affected by CJ just leaving for years. You could say Sweet was too, but he was pre-occupied with providing for his siblings and mother. Smoke had always been the "Wise" one of the group. Ryder was the only one who was hostile, yet empathetic to CJ when he returned. Most of the earliest missions are with him. I just feel like, by the end, he just had enough and gave up, or was probably threatened by Smoke and CRASH. He just knew CJ wouldn't believe him even if he tried, so he just became the villain because he knew CJ would get him anyway. Same reason why OG LOC never Rats out CJ in front of Madd Dog. He wouldn't have believed him. He was my favourite character. Although I did like Smoke a bit more when was younger.

[@gaminginvestigators]

The question is.. are you thinking about the early pre-Loco Syndicate concept of Ryder or the final one 😃 It's all about the perspective my man 😉 We believe that Ryder never betrayed GSF, perhaps he should have died during "The Green Sabre" mission or lived in hiding until CJ will come back to LS 🙂

[@yelhsanosnhoj6602]

Ryder’s death was too soon and very anti climatic. I always had a feeling Smoke was the traitor from the start just from the way he used to always talk in circles but Ryder came out of nowhere and it felt too early in the game for how important a character he is. Not to mention he seemed to be the kind to go out more in a gun fight than a motor boat. Smoke seemed more like the type to try and run away on a boat….

[@legitgrinder4275]

i love these vids and i just started watching! new sub!