Why Scope Leveling Wedges Don't Work

[@Timline69]

The wedges that have two pieces can work great if using the top of pic rail on rifle.

[@tri4arda]

Your mount should sit flat on the pic rail, if it's not, thats a problem. You don't want your mount held in position by the taper on the clamp. The only job the taper clamp has is to pull the mount flat on the pic rail. If we're being realistic, levelling your reticle to your action is the only perfect way, else, everything has tolerance.

[@ChadCooper03]

Thanks for the heads up. I wonder if "wet mounting" would change the results. I know Area 419 has a video where they put a touch of grease on the pic rail, so when torquing mounts to rail, it can settle into correct position, so they claim. My protocol is to check as many variables as possible. I start with making sure rifle is level as measured by pic rail. Then mount scope into the scope base loosely for eye relief/eye box. After that, I check against the level of the top of turret for "good enough" to start, so I know I'm not way off. Then, I project reticle onto wall, and ensure reticle is on same level as rifle pic rail. I then carefully tighten down everything and reverify everything.

[@paramounttactical]

It’s a good question. I’ll have to test it.

[@bajamedic]

Wet mount to the pic rail whether its rings or spuhr/419/mdt etc one piece. I have found that the friction is a culprit for binding at the interface and pic rail.

[@paramounttactical]

I’ve heard this before. I’ll give it a try. Thanks, Gary

[@codywithrow7993]

Same. Wedges had my reticle canted so bad I couldn’t even finish a ladder test on some sst hand loads. Pissed me off. The range is an hour away

[@theoutlawjoseywales8711]

Hi, Gary... very well done analysis.... One question: If you have a rail with 20 moa AND a one piece scope mount with increased moa (such as an MTD or a Sphur), which one should you level all components to as they BOTH have a degree of moa adjustment... Robert Dakota Dunes, SD

[@paramounttactical]

It’s quite a conundrum. Ideally you get the rail and the mount as parallel as possible. If your mount is indicating it’s not parallel when you tighten it to base, I would play around with mount placement and the order in which I tighten the cross bolts. You might be able to eventually get them reading the same. The best answer is get a mount or rail with all the elevation you need in one component. That eliminates that variable. They do make rails and mounts with 40 MOA and more all built into one item. That’s the real solution if troubleshooting doesn’t work. Hope that helps. -Gary

[@richiefutrell6247]

Maybe I just got lucky but now I have to recheck everything. I use a Spuhr mount ( 3mil built in) on my MPA with the pinned factory 20 moa rail. I put the wedge in verified level on the turret and level built into the chassis and went with it. Shot 4 matches this year and took it out to a mile. No problem but wonder if im leaving something on the table. Where should you level if both the rail and mount have cant?

[@paramounttactical]

It’s quite a conundrum. Ideally you get the rail and the mount as parallel as possible. If your mount is indicating it’s not parallel when you tighten it to base, I would play around with mount placement and the order in which I tighten the cross bolts. You might be able to eventually get them reading the same. The best answer is get a mount or rail with all the elevation you need in one component. That eliminates that variable. They do make rails and mounts with 40 MOA and more all built into one item. That’s the real solution if troubleshooting doesn’t work. Hope that helps. -Gary

[@williamr9537]

I don't know what wedge system you are using but the one I have uses two pieces to level the scope. It has a wedge like you showed but mine has another piece with a right angle milled on the bottom to sit on top of the pic. rail and that piece has another angled ramp milled on top. That top angle when used with the wedge piece like you shown creates a 90 degree angle. You slide the wedge up the ramp till it interfaces with the flat bottom of the turret. Once I get the two pieces into position I wiggle the scope back and forth till it seats to well to the bottom of the turret. It would of been nice to see a close up on how you used your wedge. Thanks

[@coal_tactical]

yea whatever works, works

[@paramounttactical]

On this mount and other mounts like Spuhr they have the a slot pre-cut into the mount that corresponds with the provided wedge. The question for you is, did you verify that your scope is actually level or are you just trusting the system? Thanks for watching! -Gary

[@williamr9537]

@@paramounttactical Okay I was thinking the mount must have a slot cut in it though I have never seen that before. I have never trusted using the scope elevation turret caps for placing bubble levels because of many of their designs and getting the bubble level 100% perpendicular to the bore and having things move around as you tighten the rings screws. One of the better ways of I have done if you have the space inside a building and your scope will focus is to use a plumb line. You place the level on top of your rail and then rotate your scope reticle into alignment. you can do it out side too if it is a calm day. For me in general for my varmint hunting using the wedges is good enough for me.

[@sigmundcieszkiewicz1633]

who manufactures the red block that you used to check the scope base and elevation turret level during your You-Tube presentation

[@paramounttactical]

It’s a machined trigger jig by APEX. You can find machined or flat blocks anywhere. Some levels have thick, flat machined surfaces you could use as well. All you really need is a flat surface that indicates level and is raised enough to clear the bell housing/objective on the optic. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching! -Gary

[@jonbrecke4436]

Never had a problem with the wedges. Always stood up to the tall target test.

[@scott2228]

After watching the video it made sense why the wedge process MIGHT not work. So I had to test it out. I used them and then verified everything using a thorough leveling process I learned watching your other videos. (And a few others) I must have gotten lucky!! Turned out the wedge worked with both a $30 Amazon mount and a $200+ ADM mount. But I still agree with you. Using only the wedge leaves room for error at longer distances.

[@Aibotcomment]

So would it be best to level it using the picatiny rail on the rifle? Depending on the tolerances to each gun your scope could potentially role differently. Maybe im confused 😢.

[@paramounttactical]

I’m just saying that if you have an integrated slot for these wedges like a lot of mounts do, they only work if the mount stays perfectly parallel when you tighten it. This one wasn’t. After I tightened the mount, it was slightly canted so the integrated wedge system isn’t going to work. If you mount your optic like I instruct in other videos it’s a non-issue.

[@Aibotcomment]

@@paramounttactical okay i understand. Thanks for the clarification.

[@TheUnholyLordClownz]

I forget if it was the owner of Warne, Spuhr, or LaRue, who said this, but it's best to apply oil or grease to the rail/bottom of the mount before clamping the mount to spec to allow a more uniformed and even clamping. Try repeating this experiment with that in mind. Youll get better results like I did. Also, i have a very expensive mount, so that may also be a factor.

[@user045-key77]

Figured it out these working on airguns, you have shared the golden nuggets. not talked on KZbin or anywhere else as of date.

[@feetoorourke]

So, let me make sure I understand this. If I have a level on my one piece mount, I should run that instead of a rail mounted option, like the US Optics version? And what's the difference at say 600, 1000 and a mile for being off level the amount of the leveling tool? Is it splitting a blonde one, or significant?

[@paramounttactical]

That’s not what I said. There’s several IFs here. If you have elevation built into your mount AND IF when you tighten your mount it is coming out of parallel with your scope base/rail then you should level your optic to the mount and put the anti-cant device on your mount. If the elevation is in your scope base/rail AND your mount is coming out of parallel when you tighten, you should level your optic to the rail and have your anti cant device on the rail. Ideally, when you tighten your mount it doesn’t shift one way or the other and stays perfectly parallel with your rail and if that is the case, you should level the optic to the rail and it doesn’t matter where you put your anti cant device because both components are on the same plane. As far as how much a difference it makes… depends on how much it shifts when you tighten it. Could be a little or a lot. Could make significant or insignificant difference. It’s a variable that you should try to get rid of. The only way you would know for sure is by shooting a tall target test which you should do every time you mount an optic. Hope that clarifies. -Gary

[@davidsalsedo]

This is the best instruction on scope leveling to date I’ve seen. Great great job. Thank you for all you do for the community!

[@otter1622]

A scope reticle level to gravity does not care how much cant is built in to a rail. If the receiver/mount is true to the axis of the bore it will be level on the 1st and 2nd axis. If it’s not it’s a 3rd axis issue (scope is offset from the bore to the left or right).

[@chrisb9478]

I use them to get “close”, but use levels & shoulder mount & eye it for final torque.

[@TerminalM193]

I've always just run a plumb Bob from the ceiling and shined a flashlight through the opposite end of the scope to get a shadow projection on the wall to then match the scope to the shadow.

[@paramounttactical]

The ol flashlight method. I cover the problem with that in my scope mounting video. What if your reticle is not plumb inside the optic? It happens a lot more often than people realize. Using the reticle as the point to determine if the optic is plumb hides this problem. If the reticle isn’t plumb then everything you dial is incorrect and there’s no real way to fix that. If you’d like to learn more I cover that in detail in my scope mounting myths video and the recently published Complete Guide to Precision Scope Mounting.

[@TerminalM193]

@@paramounttactical Here on my ranch the shadow trick has been perfect for my needs. The majority of both my defensive & coyote rifles are running either Steiner p4xi or Delta Strykers, both sfp optics so I do zero dialing. I'd probably start running into the issues you mentioned if I was actually dialing. I also tend to stick within 500 yards with my shots as well. There's been a few occasions where I've taken 600 yard shots and not got a humane kill with practically zero blood trail which still to this day bothers me. The majority of coyotes are taken with a 62g & 75g Speer Gold Dot projectile that I handload to medium/low 5.56 pressures to better serve a 16" to push out to atleast 500 yards.... Some day when I decide to quit making excuses I'd like to actually take a long range class and start doing some competition long range shooting. I've actually taken both pistol & carbine 1 classes with paramount tactical and will soon be looking at your schedule for both pistol and carbine 2. My goal as of right now is to work my way up on both platforms so I can take low light courses from you guys on both platforms. I've trained at about a half dozen other places but with paramount I've been able to obtain the most knowledge and actually see MUCH better performance on my end. You guys have some damn good trainers at your facility!

[@paramounttactical]

@@TerminalM193 love it! You’ll definitely enjoy our long range courses. Hope to see you on the range again soon! -Gary

[@davidhicks7160]

@@paramounttactical I just watched the myths video where you talk about this. I want to make sure I understand: you recommend your method because you can diagnose a misaligned reticle, whereas plumb bob or flashlight methods disguise a misaligned reticle until you start missing at longer distances, correct?

[@paramounttactical]

@@davidhicks7160 yes. But it’s a bigger problem than that because you wont diagnose it at distance. Misses at distance are automatically attributed to environmentals or poor fundamentals. You’ll just dial until you get a hit. It might just be a click or two off so unless it’s really bad, it’s subtle enough to go unnoticed but ends up costing you 10% or whatever more misses without realizing. Or you’ll get all hits up to 600 or so and then your hit rate reduces and you think your fundamentals are off, so these issues can be very insidious and hard to diagnose. That is why regardless of what mounting method (all have potential for mechanical or human error) you use, you must do a tall target test to confirm. Should just be part of your SOP when getting a new rifle or mounting a new optic. I hope that helps. Thanks for watching! -Gary

[@helodriver20]

I bought a set of wedges a couple years ago. Never got them to work properly.

[@Johnsormani]

What is interesting is how to determine the precision tolerance you need for your leveling tools. An optic bubble level’s biggest error sits in the person in front of it ( acceptance factor). Most electronic levels have a tolerance of +/- 0.2 degrees. The most expensive ones ( 100$) maybe +/- 0,05

[@matthewt2629]

Great videos. I totally agree with you on the wedge system, I’ve very rarely had good results using them in the workshop. Using accurate levels on various points on the rifle and scope just seems the most accurate and consistent way of doing things I have found myself.

[@ShakaShots]

I wonder if you run the turret back down after tightening if the bubble would level out?

[@MrIliff]

Yeah the place called Tactical Kit in the UK is selling them listed as Arisaka but has the pictures of the cheap eBay ones. My guess is they selling the cheap Chinese sets for £45. Doesn't make sense to use the wrong pictures. Anyway I can get the Spur set for £40 just need to check if the one piece is tall enough for my scope height. Plus I need to find out if they're anygood good if you have moa?...

[@stargazer6912]

Great content. Have a quick question. @0:40s you show how to use the wedge, but you're only using 1 part of a 2 part system? Aren't you supposed to use the base it comes with that has a 45 degree angle that you're supposed to slide the wedge you're holding onto in order to get the proper levelling? Cheers

[@jonahwaldner2867]

Could you do a video testing cheap scope rings like Modkin or Monstrum against Arken or Vortex?

[@hnolsoe]

I would also say that the problem is not the wedge, but the interface to the picatinny so you need a new mount basically if its not clamping on perfectly. Btw have you tried this with Spuhr one piece mounts ?

[@paramounttactical]

I have. The problem persists. I have found the solution however. kzbin.info1Ahj8nMW9Yc?feature=share

[@CutlassOutdoors]

Great information! I always learn something new from your videos.

[@thepunisher8078]

stuff gets confusing everyone has so many tricks....and of course opinions. i need to take one of your long range course and that would be a good start for me

[@GaryMcILwain-l2v]

What's the BLUF? I have the Spuhr 3001 with a Nightforce Scope 4-32x50 (30mm); how do I need to check this to ensure it's right. Rifle is leveled, small lever on scope area , leveler on Spuhr mount, I am ensuring all are level thru out the process. Are you saying do not use the wedge? if not then what? What about the difference from the base of the scope without the wedge being used? Need a little help here. this is my first mount ever so I am trying to get this right. I am mounting this on a Sig Cross .308 Win 16B.

[@BimmerDudeXi]

I have the Arisaka wedge but never could get it work properly. I'm looking to buy the scope jack by fix sticks.

[@paramounttactical]

We’re a Fix It Sticks dealer but I’m not a proponent of the scope jack bc it doesn’t get low enough and doesn’t work on most optics and it won’t work at all on one piece scope mounts. The video link below is a step by step on how I recommend mounting a scope along with the gear I recommend. Thanks for watching! -Gary How to Mount a Scope the Right Way kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZjRZ5ight-WgpI

[@BimmerDudeXi]

@paramounttactical I ve watched this already and have helped me big time. I was hoping the scope jack would streamline the process and avoid scope shift when tighten down the rings.

[@paramounttactical]

@@BimmerDudeXi it might. I’ve just found there’s a very limited number of optics it will fit under. Depending on your ring height and the design of your scope, it might work just fine.

[@JayD_113]

Do you offer a service to help mount/level a new rifle? I ordered an MPA and have a razor waiting to add.

[@Rico11b]

Great video! Just one of the reasons I don't care for one piece mounts. I prefer to spread my rings as much as possible to support the scope fully not have the rings so close to the turrets. This problem won't present itself if using rings and bases as opposed to one piece mounts.

[@paramounttactical]

Thanks, but you’re conflating problems here. One piece mounts are far superior to rings. That’s not even a question. You have the exact same issue with rings. The individual rings contort when they clamp as well but now you have two pieces contorting and torquing your optic. Trust me… go with a one piece mount. They are truer, straighter than rings could ever be. Thanks for watching! -Gary

[@MarioAnguelov]

Hi, Gary... very well done analysis. This is the best instruction on scope leveling to date I’ve seen. Great job. Thank you for all you do for the community! MERRY CHRISTMAS AND ALL THE BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY BEST REGARDS

[@paramounttactical]

Thank you sir! Merry Christmas to you and yours as well. I have a more in depth scope mounting instructional video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXibdJaeh76fetksi=1GPf31bMYBU1yim2 Thanks, Gary

[@RedactIT]

Can you do a scope mounting tutorial for one piece mounts like Spuhrs? It seems like a much different process when mounting by the level of the mount as I always been taught that the scope has to be leveled by the action.

[@paramounttactical]

Already did. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXibdJaeh76fetksi=-QZHfxLCT2UR3CaZ

[@RedactIT]

@@paramounttacticalI’ve watched that video 3 times now haha however you mentioned something about marrying the mount on a canted mount (20 moa) and my Spuhr mount is not level with the pic rail of my rifle and the action of the rifle. Which level should I follow since I don’t want to have to cant my rifle and I think you mentioned something about how you disagree with that practice as well. I also have a mdt send it level and I don’t know where to mount that since if I mount on the pic rail the scope reticle won’t be level but if I do it on the Spuhr mount, my rifle will be canted. Also, the Spuhr mount internal bubble is very off as well. My ocd is driving me crazy and I just wish to know what would give me the best results. My apologies for writing so much I think you’re the only KZbinr who aims for straight perfection/precision when it comes to scope mounting.

[@paramounttactical]

@@RedactIT mount your Send It Level to the pic rail/scope base. Level your optic to the scope base. You’ll be good to go.

[@dawsoncota3845]

So for a Spuhr mount with cant on a no can’t base should be leveled off the bubble built into the Spuhr correct?

[@paramounttactical]

I’d confirm that the level is good but yes, the optic should be leveled to the mount. Fundamentally, you need the optic parallel with the mount. If the level is good then you can level the optic using it as a reference. Hope that helps. -Gary

[@dawsoncota3845]

How exactly would one go about making sure the built in bubble is truly level? Same thing as checking the turrets?

[@paramounttactical]

@@dawsoncota3845 make sure your scope base is level then put the Spuhr mount on the base but don’t tighten. Integrated level should read level.

[@dawsoncota3845]

@@paramounttactical I’ll give it a try tomorrow, thanks for the info sir!

[@5712DK]

Thanks for this episode, it´s now saved for future mounting projects 👍

[@JustWrightHD]

If I have a 0 moa mount and just mounting on pic rail, I can just mount to rail, set scope in the mount, and level from there, correct? Would a wedge still not work in that situation? This is all new to me

[@paramounttactical]

Complete Guide To Precision Scope Mounting - Part 1 of 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXibdJaeh76fetk

[@eee2115]

so in the scenario you showed where the scope base is level but the mount isn't, how would you mount the scope level to the mount, not the scope base?

[@paramounttactical]

@@eee2115 I wouldn’t level a scope to the mount. I always level the scope to the base. But here’s an update on how to fix this issue. Wet Mounting - DO IT! kzbin.info1Ahj8nMW9Yc?feature=share

[@eee2115]

@@paramounttactical Thanks! I saw that video also. The red round steel that you place the scope on to find where the turret is level, where does one get that? Is flat stock from a store flat enough or are you using high precision machinist blocks? I have pretty much all the things you recommend except this piece, and I think the reason my scopes are not as level as I would like might be due to the turret not being in a level spot. Though I am using Vortex scopes, so not sure if you would expect the high end brand not to be level.

[@rosswitte]

Great video. Any opinion or experience on the Defensive Edge scope leveling system?

[@paramounttactical]

This is the first I’m hearing of it but I just looked it up and they’re using the exact same principles I discuss in the video and in my video Guide To Precision Scope Mounting. I’ll be ordering one to test out but principally it looks solid.

[@MrIliff]

What if you have moa built into the rings? I have Burris adjustable moa rings. I set them at 10moa but regardless let's say I have some moa adjusted in. Now these type of levelling kits are not really going to work are they unless I'm running 0 moa. I was thinking to get a set of them but I'm not sure. The Arisaka set seems to have 2 versions of design. One has the brand name on and the other has little circular holes and look like the same as the cheap ones on eBay. So that has me confused. I don't want to order a set for good money and get sent a cheapo set. I'm in the UK and only one place sells them and only have the 2 piece kit in stock. So I was looking at the Sphur version. It looks better made but you only get the one leveling piece and not the 2 piece kit like Arisaka have both a one and two piece kit.

[@paramounttactical]

@@MrIliff Wet Mounting - DO IT! kzbin.info1Ahj8nMW9Yc?feature=share

[@marioncarson6174]

100% agree. I hate those things.

[@linkchen8245]

What if the top of turret surface is not leveled or parallel against the bottom aka saddle surface ? The turret is screwed in which can cause unevenness .

[@paramounttactical]

I literally demonstrated what to do if that happens. You turn the turret until the top and bottom are parallel. Did you watch the video?

[@nellaikswokub139]

if your mount has elevation built in and you say you then want to level the scope to the mount then the wedge device should work ok, correct?

[@paramounttactical]

Yes. I’ve also covered how to mitigate or solve the problem with mounts and rails not mating properly. If you add a light amount of oil to the mating surfaces of the scope base and the mount clamps it prevents galling and ensures they mount flush which in turn allows the wedges to work as designed.

[@nellaikswokub139]

Much appreciated

[@jaxbeach09]

Wouldn’t the mount be an irrelevant point since you’re leveling the optic to the rifle?

[@Orca308]

There is one issue with what you said about the rail interfacing with the mount could introduce a leveling error, this kind of contradicts what you did in your other video, you were leveling the scope to the mount on the rail of a rifle then you where going to remove the scope and mount as a unit after the leveling was done to be used on an other rifle. But this means that the shooter you were doing the leveling for cannot trust that the scope with the mount will be level on his rifle. How does he verify that no leveling error is introduced as a result of the mount interfacing with the rail on his rifle without executing the whole leveling process?

[@paramounttactical]

A tall target test. Any new optic on a rifle should shoot a tall target test. As I’ve also stated in multiple videos, you must verify 3 things. 1) Scope is plumb to rifle. 2) Reticle is plumb inside optic 3) Optic is tracking correctly. The ONLY way to do that is shooting a tall target test.

[@johnblackbird7523]

I always love these videos, thanks

[@benthomasmelton]

Well… I stand corrected!

[@TheJr2010]

My Swarovski scope has round caps any suggestions on how to level

[@paramounttactical]

Can you remove the caps and is it flat underneath? ? I’ve had to do that on many optics.

[@TheJr2010]

@@paramounttactical I removed the caps and I was able to level it

[@johncarpenter6219]

I had the Arisaka, then I watched your leveling video. I went back and leveled my scopes again and ditched the Arisaka. I would look through the scope and could plainly see the reticle wasn’t straight. It was after I leveled it how you taught it…🤙😂

[@ARTENSASS]

I received my ordered Arisaka wedges on Wednesday...today, I see this video. Ugh!

[@magx260]

Good knowledge right there. Thanks.

[@thepunisher8078]

I see you have many tools to level scopes.... why is the dead leveler not one of them? is this maybe a new scope leveler you haven't heard off just curious. its from badger ordnance and i think its very helpful

[@paramounttactical]

I have one. I just don’t see the point when I can put the optic on a rifle and level the rifle. I precision level and mount close to 100 scopes a year. Here’s the methods and tools I use to do it professionally. Complete Guide To Precision Scope Mounting - Part 1 of 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXibdJaeh76fetk

[@thepunisher8078]

@@paramounttactical Thanks very much for the reply back and your valuable feedback. I’m learning all the time it seems like there is always a new better way to level a scope i will continue to watch your incredible videos and hopefully get a chance to go to your school thanks for your service! USN😀

[@jasonsponsler21]

Well I guess I know who will be mouthing the scope on my MPA when I order it😂. “ Not as young as they used to be”. I think that was for you John😂

[@paramounttactical]

😂

[@calbrabandt5967]

It is important to realize that light arms, even those with picatinny rails, do not feature an accurate level reference surface or mechanical connection to the level "sensor", as does artillery. I was first made aware of the consequences of this fact by Tom Gaylord, the "Godfather of Airguns" and also a former artilleryman in the service. The decision of whether to level the optic to the scope base or the mount does not necessarily guarantee the best reference point. I like to level an optic (actually the optic's reticle), using whatever level reference I will be using the field. For precision shooting, I'll be using a level attached to the rifle so I secure the rifle to a tripod or bench, level the rifle using the rifle's level (the only reference that really matters in the end), and then I adjust the scope in the scope rings to square its reticle stadia lines to a cross hair reference graphic that I've drawn on a wall using a good carpenter's level. (I also first test the carpenter's level for accuracy by swapping its ends, etc. and adjust it, if necessary.) The scope stadia lines can then be aligned to the crosshair graphic on the wall either by viewing the wall graphic though the eyepiece (muzzle pointing toward the wall graphic) or by projecting an image of the lines onto the wall by shining a flashlight through the scope from objective to eyepiece (muzzle pointed away from the wall graphic). If I am mounting a scope on a rifle that lacks an attached level (maybe a "classic" hunting rifle), my shoulder and body become the "level reference" so then I simply shoulder the arm several times and sight the wall graphic through the scope to make my adjustments. I also tend to use the shooting position and perhaps the sling or other rest that I anticipate I'll be using in the filed (off-hand, kneeling, seated, bench, prone, etc.). For this method, it is necessary to draw the graphic on a wall with sufficient distance in front of it to view a sharply focused image of the drawn wall graphic through the scope. Reduced scope zoom magnification power and/or a doorway or a wall facing a more distant outdoor sighting position might be needed.The above simple procedures work best for me, because they use the exact same references that I will be using in the field.

[@davidwilliams299]

Good video Gary.

[@caesar5555]

yes. But if you have rings how you level to the rings?

[@paramounttactical]

You don’t level rings. You level the optic. Complete Guide To Precision Scope Mounting - Part 1 of 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXibdJaeh76fetk

[@caesar5555]

​@paramounttactical you said you need to level the scope to the place where your 20moa is built in. In my case it's the rings. So I need to level to the rings which don't have level surface on the bottom like a ring mount

[@paramounttactical]

@@caesar5555 when you take your ring caps off it’s not a level surface?

[@caesar5555]

@@paramounttactical I dont know. I use Burris Zee Signature rings and achieve cant with the inserts.

[@paramounttactical]

@@caesar5555 just level off your rail. It’ll be fine.

[@burrejo]

You going to level your gun every time you lay down to take a shot? Knowing your range and turret adjustment seem to be better than dealing with 50 variables and trusting holdovers...

[@paramounttactical]

Holdovers using a reticle are more accurate than turret adjustments.

[@kc0jhs1]

why don't you use digital levels?

[@paramounttactical]

Because quality bible levels are more sensitive. That said… you can use them and I have. I still personally prefer and believe that bible levels are more accurate.

[@C_oprator89]

Another great video and dude I tried the wedges and this video is just awesome. Period.

[@allexthebeast93]

Thanks man!!

[@recklessjunkie]

Yeah, you should’ve be using a two-piece mount

[@paramounttactical]

Uh no. 🙄One piece mounts are superior in every way and 2 piece mounts have the same issue.

[@derknizotts9162]

THANK CHRIST - - - I wanted to believe this before I even knew HOW they worked. (New LR Shooter).

[@YepTriedToTellYou]

Agree. The wedges suck.

[@The-Dutch-Lions]

It works always if you use two scope rings.

[@DavidMishchukDM]

Wedges shouldn't be used between the scope and the mount, they should be used between the scope and the receiver's picatinny. If you are using a one-piece mount, it's obvious that wedges aren't applicable in the first place. I think that needs to be stated in this video. I would argue a majority of folks are using typical scope rings and wedges are the best way to level a scope in that application.

[@paramounttactical]

Dude! Watch the video instead of just commenting from your ass! These mounts, just like SPUHR mounts are designed that way. FFS. I love when people so ignorant speak with such confidence. 🙄 “It’s obvious wedges aren’t applicable”. It’s literally HOW THIS MOUNT AMONG OTHERS ARE DESIGNED. You didn’t watch the video, you have no idea what you’re taking about, or the context and yet you can’t help yourself vomit text onto the screen and then act like you’re an authority on the matter.

[@RockinRack]

Ummm... what if the rail and the scope mount both have elevation? Lol

[@paramounttactical]

Then do your best.

[@heythere8190]

@ 0:41 seconds you dont even have it right. Its upside down. No wonder it dosnt work for you.

[@paramounttactical]

You’re not smart. You don’t even know how regarded that statement is do you? Go watch another channel and don’t own guns.

[@TheUnholyLordClownz]

​@@paramounttacticalyou look like a baby-back bitch saying stuff like this.

[@JohnJones-vx7cr]

How about a quick video for us guys/girls that cannot afford all the do dads.

[@paramounttactical]

Got plenty of videos on a multitude of topics and gear.

[@WindowsPlaysFPS]

You should try this again with those two piece level sets instead of this 1 piece thing you have.

[@paramounttactical]

🙄 FFS dude. That “thing” is a one piece scope mount which a large percentage of people use over antiquated rings. I clearly outline that from the beginning.

[@jasonsponsler21]

That thing is one of the best and most precise methods of mounting an optic

[@louislazarus9253]

All reasonable and good information but making something fairly simple a bit too complicated. The bottom line is the scope should be level with the rifle. When the rifle is plumb and not canted, the scope vertical reticle should be plumb. So, really...who cares about the rail and the mount? Figure out your moa elevation on your mount if that's a factor for your equipment. However, I think the most important thing is once you mount your scope, is it aligned to the barrel. In other words, you shouldn't have to make a windage adjustment if your windage turret is centered. If you have to do that, try reversing the rings front to back and back to front. You may also have to "shim" the rings in order to achieve proper windage from the get go. Bore sighting on a wall about 15 feet away will let you know if there is a windage adjustment problem. You can't change where the barrel points but you can change the direction left to right where the scope is pointing. Cola cans can be cut to make shims if necessary. Remember, the scope has to be plumb with THE RIFLE. That's your goal.

[@paramounttactical]

Oh dear God. You ever have that conversation with someone that thinks they know everything but you can tell they have never actually tested what they’re talking about? I’m sorry but I do this for a living and test everything that I talk about, BEFORE I talk about it. I’m not a KZbinr bro. I’ve been teaching and testing all of this long before I ever made a video on KZbin. You need to look up Dunning-Kruger because you’re balls deep into it. If you’d like to learn something instead of just typing to sound smart I’d suggest you watch the videos linked below where I cover everything you’re wrong about. Scope Mounting Myths - BUSTED! kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3WlnoZrhZVroJI Complete Guide To Precision Scope Mounting - Part 1 of 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXibdJaeh76fetk Tall Target Test - Critical Step For Long Range Accuracy kzbin.info/www/bejne/naTMi36IgNOemJI

[@louislazarus9253]

@@paramounttactical Watched plenty of videos. Everyone has their own ideas which is fine. Some people love to make things complicated. I prefer simple which is to do all the common sense stuff to make sure the scope and rifle are working together as best they can. And by the way, I did this "professionally" a very long time ago in a place very far away with equipment very sub-standard to what we have these days. I'm still here and my equipment worked the way it was supposed to without using levels or gauges. Stay safe, bro'.

[@paramounttactical]

@@louislazarus9253 see that’s the problem. You don’t “know” if your equipment is good unless you shoot a tall target test and it’s not “ideas” there’s facts and then there’s unproven theories and then there’s mechanical and human error opportunities all along the way. What I can tell you with 100% certainty is that half of what you said in your first comment was WAY off. You justvflay out are wrong. You think you know but you don’t. That is a provable fact. Just because you hit a target at distance doesn’t prove or confirm anything. When mounting an optic you have 3 objectives: 1) ensure optic is plumb to action, UNLESS you have a 20 MOA rail then you MUST level to the rail. 2) Ensure your reticle is plumb to scope body. If it isn’t then it won’t reach correctly period. Your turrets only push/pull 90 degree horizontally and vertically. If you leveled using the reticle and it’s not plumb inside optic then you hide this fact. And yes, you still can dial your way to an impact but you’ll miss more and blame it on environmentals. 3) ensure optic is tracking The ONLY way you can verify all 3 of those critical performance factors is shooting a tall target test. If you don’t verify using a tall target test then you don’t know and you’re just using blind faith. Period.

[@lees0725]

Why wasn't this titled " wedges suck"

[@paramounttactical]

Because I can’t say definitively that they do. And really, the problem is machining consistency between mounts and rails, not the wedges. The jury is still out on the stand alone wedges not used on one piece mounts. So, I’m not sure they suck. They just don’t work. Now what definitively does suck… is MOA.

[@lees0725]

@paramounttactical haha just having fun w you brother just a MOA guy giving u grief have a good 1

[@paramounttactical]

@@lees0725 oh, I was well aware. 😂👊🇺🇸

[@Solving_Live_Poker]

LOL. Everything in this is far more complicated than it needs to be. If you are using a level on your rifle, then keep the rifle level with that level, and plumb your reticle to gravity. If you’re not using a level while shooting, then level the rifle however you normally do and plumb the reticle to gravity. This eliminates literally everything including times the reticle isn’t square to your turrets or bottom of erector housing.

[@paramounttactical]

Classic case of Dunning Kruger right here. You’re so wrong and yet you believe it so hard. Good for you bro.

[@Solving_Live_Poker]

@@paramounttactical LOL. You're claiming you shouldn't plumb your reticle to gravity? I'm assuming you've been to courses like Rifles Only, Frank Galli, Modern Day Sniper, etc etc? If not, you're up past your bedtime on this one. That's also the reason that SAC sells a plumb line if you purchases the accessory kit with the Final Scope Level.

[@christhomas4260]

No way. No other option way. Bubbles etc are a pita😅

[@Esper320]

Bro just ruined my whole day

[@paramounttactical]

🤷‍♂️

[@kwikshooter1]

Makes no difference if the scope rings are level or not. All that matters if if the scoped is level with the RAIL and ACTION. And, the wedge is not used alone, it needs the corresponding rail piece........ I thought you were pretty smart until I heard you say "ANYWAYS". Arggghhh.....the word is ANYWAY.

[@paramounttactical]

Hey jackass, if when you tighten the mount it’s no longer level with the the rail and then you use the mount with a slit in the actual mount with a wedge as a basis for “level” it doesn’t work. Your comprehension skills are either trash or you watched just enough of the video to jump to conclusion. Your comment proves that bc you got some key elements entirely wrong. You’re quite the emotional man there with all those caps and trust me, you’re the one that lacks the understanding on this issue. 🤷‍♂️ You’re worried how I said “anyways” 😂 Have you seen yourself type? I’m surprised you didn’t run out of ‘………..’. You have a blessed day princess.

[@Bullets4Bucks]

One more reason one-piece mounts are overrated. By mounts, I mean one piece rings where both rings are connected via a solid base.

[@paramounttactical]

Lol, No. One piece mounts are the standard. They alleviate a lot of problems that go with rings, that really are antiquated at this point, and they give you mounting options for accessories that rings do not. It’s just one more reason not to use wedges.

[@Bullets4Bucks]

@@paramounttactical they create lots of problems like the one in your video

[@paramounttactical]

@@Bullets4Bucks I’d be willing to bet the same interface issue occurs with rings too. Given they latch onto a smaller surface area, I’d be willing to bet it’s easier for them to get out of parallel with base. The clamps are essentially the same. The problem with rings withdrawn be exasperated bc it’s more likely that one is canting in a direction due to the interface/clamp and the other is not or it’s canting in the opposite direction, thus torquing the optic. That can’t happen with a 1 piece mount.

[@Taepa5]

Ryan Cleckner Army Ranger Sniper and Author of the Snipers handbook swears by them why did you only used one piece of the leveling tool kit? It has x2 pieces to work otherwise of course it wont level the scope

[@Ryan-vj3er]

Have you used a precision level?

[@paramounttactical]

That’s an odd question without context. Uh, yeah I have used a precision level. I have about 7 levels on my bench at all times ranging from expensive precision machining levels and everything in between.