why SHOULDN'T you upgrade your nail?

you'd think people actually learned this in grub school or something?
2nd Channel - / @win2ette
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also there's this...
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#windette #hollowknight #shorts
Don't even think about it
/ windette

[@nicor3612]

Common misconception. The nail upgrades still make the game easier for the average playthrough, but they aren't good in speedruns because the benefits from it are greatly outweighed by the loss of up to a few minutes for the upgrade

[@eridan11]

Yeah and we don’t even upgrade spells that much in speedruns anyway: In Any% we just use Shamans VS and in True Ending we use Shamans Shade Soul. We don’t really upgrade much stuff in the most popular main categories (except all skills, 1xx and the other categories where upgrading spells is literally required). Even more emphasizing this, in most 20-30 minute meme categories, we don’t upgrade anything at all!

[@nicor3612]

@Eridan yup! Iirc on current patch true ending they added getting abyss shreik because it's the most damaging spell in the game and it's on the way anyways. I don't really know though, I don't keep up with much outside current patch any%

[@eridan11]

@@nicor3612 Yeah pretty much, it recently became optimal after shrogo was discovered. Before that, shriek route and shade soul route were basically equally fast. But now with shrogo, shriek route is 30 seconds faster.

[@Irish_Enderman]

True, even though their health increases you still kill them in less hits than if you had no upgrades

[@nicor3612]

@@eridan11 I have never heard of pogoing your scream referred to as shrogo, I like it. 👍

[@kingbubbles9461]

In normal games it is absolutely worth it to upgrade the nail because even with added health, the added damage still makes everything die in less hits. The only time it isn’t worth it is during speed runs due to nailsmith being out of the way of everything

[@sanstheskeleton3766]

True especially with primal aspids 💀

[@aquamarinerose5405]

Though the ACTUAL point of the video is basically Windette telling you to abuse Magic builds and never upgrade your nail for the highest overall damage. though you'll lose a ton of consistency this way and rely much more on said magic. And it being a speedrunning tactic.

[@cacophonythegoblin8381]

If I did the math correctly base Grimm takes more hits to beat with the pure nail than the one below it

[@synkt8759]

​@@cacophonythegoblin8381 what if I like the extra challenge?

[@NEINNEINNEINNEIN1]

no i just want to spam ddark and abyss shriek

[@SirPanikalot778]

Counter point: buy the nail upgrades because primal aspids exist.

[@MAML_]

counter counter point: never go to kingdoms edge (hornet 2 can wait)

[@adhiprajna4127]

​@@MAML_ it will catch up to you don't they ; )

[@alduintheanti-dragonborn]

But what if I'm playing an enemy randomizer?

[@epiclink_2190]

​@@MAML_ *NO* GIVE ME THE DAMN KINGS BRAND

[@byzantine5761]

the only reason i use a nail charm set in pantheon 3 and pantheon 5 runs is because of Collector's primal aspids

[@-Internet-Explore-Not-Working-]

you need 140 hits (700) to kill the dung defender with the first nail, and you need 43 hits (900) to kill the dung defender with the pure nail

[@shadowbonbon3]

Killing dung defender in 140 hits sounds like beyond hell

[@cherrymarshmallow]

​@@shadowbonbon3This is why spells are required. With desolate dive, dung defender becomes trivial. So a lot of speed runners op for a more spell focused style, where they have a old nail, and just spam spells. Since speed runners are good at the game, they get double/triple hits, and don't even upgrade spells...

[@Helio_Asou]

​@@shadowbonbon3I did that the first time I played the game and it wasn't that bad tbh, but I had Ddark so that's why lol. Zote with old nail on the other hand...

[@voidgods]

​​@@cherrymarshmallow I wouldn't use the word "required". This short is likely aimed at casual/new players, because anyone interested in speedruns already knows that spells are "better" for that purpose. But for these same casual players, they shouldn't and wouldn't play the game as speedrunners. First the game is gorgeous and has deep lore, and exploring everything is part of the experience that made us all fall in love with HK. So I'd say, let them go for 112% and do whatever build they want instead of optimizing the fun out of the game by always thinking about the "meta" strategy. It's a single player game ffs

[@discollife]

Yeah but the issue is that spells don't scale with nail damage, so spells become MUCH LESS cost effective to use

[@dietcoke982]

Jokes on you, I'm too stupid to use spells.

[@yamo511]

based

[@greenstatic180]

My brother in Christ all you need to do is press the button once

[@anil234ify]

​@greenstatic180 on one hand, you're right. On the other hand, I am too noob at this game to use spells if I can use the soul to heal instead (which I will absolutely need to do). Also, I'm too busy running for my life and getting hit to remember to hit the button

[@jacob8693]

Ur not, ur just too stupid to realize if you focus your attention mainly on using spells eventually it will come naturally

[@Orangutanus]

Same, the only one i use a lot is DDark

[@ItsCforCattail]

That is a common misconception about nail upgrades. It’s true that bosses gain more health but the % gain of nail upgrades far outweigh the % gain of the boss health. The only reason that it may be bad is because spells still deal the same damage so if you are running a spell build, yes nail upgrades are bad but a nail build? DEFINITELY get nail upgrades.

[@matth2283]

aren't spells doing X times your nail damage?

[@joenkotazuna9453]

​@@matth2283 no they all deal the same damage (more with shaman stone) regardless of nail damage

[@aquamarinerose5405]

I think that's the point he's making. That some of the strongest things you can do overall is never upgrade your nail and rely on spells for damage instead, but then you'd need to actually know this mechanic before you even do a single nail upgrade and plan to go primarily magic.

[@tant_necromant2757]

​@@matth2283 no, but nail arts, sharp shadow and thorns of agony do

[@btsan7452]

Couldn’t had said it better

[@justalapis5768]

Mans never gone full nail build in his life

[@zzzergling1079]

nail raises enemies health BUT nontheless you now need less hits to kill em

[@Codyiguess]

What he means is that you don’t want to get nail upgrades if you’re running a spell build.

[@martinrose2668]

i lost braincells and gained geo from watching this video

[@irenBox]

E

[@TToast__]

Now you got dead cells 🤓 ( sorry )

[@abadminecraftplayer]

Well, if I remember correctly, pure nail does 21 damage and the base nail does 5. So in order for this to make fight take longer, the bosses would have to get MORE THAN FOUR TIMES THE HEALTH. Which I highly doubt.

[@ZBREAD.]

But it deals 20 damage

[@Chaos_knight553]

it deals 21 dmg and the bosses don’t get enough of a hp boost to make the upgrade unwanted

[@laurawitch3099]

Actually most of the enemies listed do get that much health with nail upgrades Basically it makes it so that it always takes the same amount of base nail hits to kill the enemy

[@Chaos_knight553]

@@laurawitch3099 no, look at the values and calculate the damage, you will see that upgrading your nail makes them faster to kill

[@abadminecraftplayer]

@@laurawitch3099 no, they don't, check the wiki

[@joshuasmyth3115]

The dream bosses get stronger because a sharper knife doesn't do shit against a sleep paralysis demon, but will still cut normally.

[@nightmaresans9161]

For a casual playthrough, it does make the enemy health lower for all but the dream warriors.

[@ekholocation]

that was a very creative way to loop the short at the end there, well done wimdy /gen

[@shilohmagic7173]

it's those sorts of loops I give highest props to.

[@lotusleaf1365]

What end? :D

[@9Ryanboi]

I kinda hate them

[@portlandgoose4727]

Literally like 70% of creators do this bro

[@ButtersStoch626]

They get balanced because they dont want you to be overpowered for bosses meant to be fought farely late into the game.

[@Randych]

Isn't becoming overpowered THE point of UPfuckingGRADING?

[@bananatheo3796]

but if they are meant to be fought later in the game why don't they just have higher health by default instead of having it tied to fucking nail upgrades???

[@Randych]

@@bananatheo3796 tbh this question haunted me throughout the game

[@ButtersStoch626]

@@bananatheo3796 Hollow knight was built to be played in whatever order you want as long as you have the abilities to do so, so if you wanted to fight grimm with no nail upgrades, or with all nail upgrades, you would have the same gameplay experience.

[@ButtersStoch626]

@@Randych no the point of upgrading is to help with the small enemies and the enemies that their health isn't tied to your nail upgrade, which there isn't a lot of bosses that aren't tied to your nail power, for example nightmare king grimm and the hollow knight, both big bosses that become easier with higher nail power.

[@PotatoLord007]

Actually I have -2 brain cells thank you very much

[@GreenPikmin]

I stole one sorry

[@PotatoLord007]

@@GreenPikmin 🥲

[@kempolar9768]

Hey can I borrow a couple? I'm kinda in debt for brain cells due to a concussion but those things are really hard to get a hold of.

[@GreenPikmin]

@@kempolar9768 I can steal more for you give me a second

[@GreenPikmin]

@@kempolar9768 I have stolen at least 2 braincells. Enjoy.

[@VitaEmerald324]

Hive Knight, Collector, and Grimm all have fixed health up to the second nail upgrade actually

[@TAquailita]

So what youre saying is, beat every other boss in the game first

[@Chaos_knight553]

nah it’s worth it to upgrade your nail, + collector is insanely hard with no nail upgrades

[@SonictheHedgehogvr12]

My - 82 brain cells we'll see ourselves out now

[@tuachixiong5232]

Me on my way to get *_EVERYTHING_* on my ever first Hallow Knight game run: "Oh is that so? Welp gonna find some more metal."

[@stormrhys]

It can be beneficial depending on the enemy even with decked out spells but it’s so small and also it’s a lot more math then just not upgrading it lol

[@andreakume6197]

The dead cells skin is amazing ,you combined my two favourite games

[@nightcatnightstalker]

counter point: literally any other enemy

[@kingdragon7280]

I used a calculator and when you upgrade you still come out on top so it will take less nail swings

[@PJOZeus]

Spells I doubt he knows or cares but.. Spells

[@coreflakes]

@@PJOZeusyall running kingsoul or what you still use nail to get soul

[@ZeroDim]

​@@coreflakesdream nail l, and even then collect soul with normal nail then spam spells repeat

[@Jo_962_]

Absolutely love the reskin!

[@Obviouse]

Love someone who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about

[@Alexis-bz7kl]

Even with this info I will still pour all my geo into my nail because Hehe, shiny sword go swish

[@JustAnotherDustsans]

Upgrading nails is still worth it since the boss health would need tp Increase alot more then what currently it currently increases. If you have the lats nail upgrade the boss probaly gets a 1.10 - 1.25 at most. If you would need to perfectly balance the nail damage increase and the bosses health increase, the boss would need a 4.25 health increase so that the pure nail needs just as many hits as the old nail (first nail upgrade).

[@Nadav_Vardiel]

The joke is on you, I have only 2 brain cells.

[@redx670]

For first and casual playthroughs, nail upgrades r good. For speedrunners, don't upgrade the nail

[@HollowFlower9]

FOR PEOPLE WITH 3 BRAINSELLS got me dying🤣🤣🤣💀💀💀

[@deathdoes5286]

I don't use spells i like the thrill of a drawn out fight.

[@Der_Ueberhamster]

Can we please appreciative that my man had 69 geo?

[@yohaifishman4261]

Imagine not making your absolute radiance fight easier because you're scared of husk sentries 🤣

[@DiegoDiaz-kk3xh]

Aww hell yeah! I got an additional two braincells apparently. Upgrades people upgrades!

[@atg4eva]

Hm yes, thank you for the advice, I will not get the upgrades making the game easier so SOME bosses get a health boost to keep the fight at a RELATIVELY EQUAL DIFFICULTY.

[@algirdasltu1389]

If u main spells kr speedrun dont do it. Otherwise go for it bc the damage outscales the hp buff. Add some nail charms and boom.

[@DragonMage155]

I thought only the dream warriors health were affected by nail upgrades.

[@fireirisdoesart]

Yeah but then we never get the best husbands in the game, Sheo and Nailsmith

[@undergravitydownforce714]

Have you DONE Nail 0 Collector fight? what are you smoking

[@sarahbell180]

I struggled so much with the godhome Collector until I got the increased damage charm in which it became trivial. I also think the Watcher Knights and Grimm are also other examples where its harder without a good nail

[@ZeroDim]

Get Unbreakable Charms that evens out the damage loss

[@Varis...]

However, it does make unbreakable strength nore effective due to it being a percentage effect, but your spells are worsened.

[@VilageIdiot]

nail upgrades let you kill aspids faster, they are thus great

[@davidbailis8415]

Primal aspids*

[@user-lk6uq9hb6z]

Ah yes, double hit points in exchange for 6 times the damage, harder

[@njstudent155]

For everyone saying "technically nail upgrades are better value than the health upgrades" it really depends on the player. People who main spells might be hurt by bosses with more health cause they aren't gonna be hitting the boss often. Although tbh, they few hits they do land is probably still gonna be more dmg than not having nail upgrades lol

[@daifuku75]

You still need to get the soul by hitting them with your nail, I don't know if the people defending this guy have played Hollow knight but you don't *main* anything. You can use a build, but can swap the build at any time. There's no investment. Nail builds are easier for new players and as someone who prefers using hybrid, I gotta say nail is more important unless it's a speedrun. Trust me, soul isn't unlimited, and you will be using your nail a lot on literally EVERY ENEMY YOU FIGHT. Unless it's a boss, using a spell is almost always a waste, so it's always more efficient to use nail against everything except for bosses. The health increase is also incredibly small, and the nail damage increase is massive, so just 1 hit and you will have broke even with your upgrade. Can't wait till new people start playing Hollow Knight and quit in a few weeks because their nail is dog shit and their spells are unreliable at best. They won't even have shade dash until later, how do you expect them to consistently land the down smash spell? It's been a solid year since I played (gone into Silksong hibernation) but I always remember what the best things were. After beating NKG, pantheons, and the Path of Pain, I vividly remember using mainly longnail + unbreakable strength build with a soul charm and the grub charm + weavers + speed master + compass + grimmchild. Grimmchild is just there to be cute, compass is because I can't navigate crystal caverns, grub + speed master + weavers is op and gets you a fuck ton of soul, long nail and strength are always useful, and the soul charm is to spam the fuck outta the horizontal spell (ngl forgot name)

[@tant_necromant2757]

All enemies he listed are not really a threat, even if you have maxed out your nail, except for Markoth, who is optional for any casual player like me. Also it's very easy to switch to nail, because it's easier to use, and even so, you can still destroy most of these bosses with abyss shriek, in order to obtain it you just have to kill some easy bosses, who can't resist upgraded nail

[@elio7610]

It is fair to say that getting the nail upgrades is still worth it but it also still sucks that upgrading your nail effectively makes your spells weaker.

[@akimbocladis9280]

I’ve been playing for a while and actually didn’t know that, I will say I think the fragile/UNBREAKABLE strength charm might balance the downsides out tho

[@stormrhys]

It can be even with out (and the spells included) but it’s still enemy and how you uses it) aka it can be better is 10% or cases so if you don’t wanna math just don’t upgrade it

[@Bobbiit]

Nah it still kills things quicker cause the damage you gain outweighs the health they gain

[@Chaos_knight553]

it’s worth it to upgrade your nail even with the hp buff

[@Coobster432]

It still makes you kill things faster, especially if you do hybrid build.

[@Bobbiit]

@@Coobster432 Depends on when in the game. Early game: spells late game: nail

[@nigelxd3735]

although it does make them have more hp, it still take less hits to defeat them with an upgraded nail, the hp increase is made so that the nail doesn't become to op or the game ro easy

[@ContortedVisions]

The damage dealt by the upgraded nails outweigh the increased boss health lol

[@algirdasltu1389]

Its spell mains that get affected by this hp buff

[@coreflakes]

@@algirdasltu1389bro uses kingsoul

[@pizzaziuminfinionite134]

@@algirdasltu1389 You still need to hit the boss with your nail

[@beefchopstick]

"b...but I've already done that and beaten all of these bosses..."

[@NekoEchoflower]

Don't the bosses only get more health after the 3rd upgrade though? I checked the health mechanic and, for example Grimm, has the same amount of health through 2 upgrades (800) and only get more (930) once the nail is upgraded to coiled Unless the hk wiki is wrong, then I don't see a problem in upgrading it at least twice No hate meant here I just love the game too much and talk about it too much, I love your content Windette keep it up

[@PJOZeus]

Think grim is unique in that respect, like there's plenty that jump up on 2, some which jump up on 1 etc Unless you're going pure spells (especially as like a gimmick run) then nail upgrades are still beneficial, but a full spell build might be slightly worth it as you'd be dealing most of the damage in spells anyway and getting less nail hits in overall

[@olivierboo831]

I was not aware of this, but by how much compared to the nail increase?

[@millz0249]

The nail gets stronger way faster, they just scale the boss with your nail so that you have a chance of beating it no matter how far in the gam you are

[@Bobbiit]

@@millz0249I mean you really are NOT supposed to fight stuff like watcher knights or like hollow knight with no upgrades

[@abadminecraftplayer]

Not as much as the nail increase, proportionally

[@ZeroDim]

The problem isn't the nail damage you do more than enough with the nail upgrades to be out damaging a base nail but the problem comes with spells not nail scaling

[@qualified_educational_user2919]

Have fun getting to those bosses with 0 nail upgrades

[@user-tt1wm3gk4r]

I want my hard mode windette, do not deny me my right to a challenge.

[@500werewolf]

"No Nail Upgrades." The true way to play Hollow Knight!

[@mrblakeboy1420]

the only hard boss in my playthrough of charmless no upgrades hollow knight was watcher knights. i can’t get sealed siblings, dream no more, or either of the pantheon endings because of kingsoul. the only ending possible is the hollow knight fight’s ending

[@daifuku75]

​@@mrblakeboy1420 Watcher knights? They're so easy, just spam soul and down slashes. To be fair idk what choices you have since you have a no charm no upgrade, so a lot of bosses are locked off, but even Hornet sentinel is harder than watcher knights!

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

Legit this has become true for me. I played randomizers so much that having nail upgrades makes the game seem weird.

[@mahmoudramadan9291]

Since the bosses gets more health the nail also gets more damage so it's perfectly balanced and also I CAN FINALLY SUFFER FROM THE BOSSES killed lost kin first try killed soul tyrant 3rd try and killed failed champion 7th try... Damn I didn't know I struggled alot with this guy

[@JustAnotherDustsans]

The nail upgrades are still super worth it since the last upgrade makes you deal 21 dmg (pure nail). The bosses wozld need to get a 4.25 to get balanced out, so getting nail upgrades still makes the game way easier

[@Videogamesandart834]

I just noticed that the health for the dead cells guy is the health pots it’s such a fun reference

[@icsiao]

shouldve found this video before getting the pure nail😭😭

[@StormTheOnigiri]

ehh upgrading it is better in the long run. unless you're doing a speedrun.

[@SkyKing5634]

In a Casual play through. Getting the mail upgrades are beneficial. In a speed run. They are counter productive

[@EmperorZ19]

Uh, no, this is borderline misinformation. Some enemies and bosses, largely those that are likely to be fought at variable points in the game, get a health boost to PARTIALLY counteract your increased nail damage, but the increased nail damage is always greater than the health boost, not all enemies get a health boost, and those that do usually only get a boost at certain upgrade levels. The whole thing is just a mechanic to make it so that players don't totally steamroll enemies that they didn't fight until later. It fascilltates the game's nonlinear design. Eschewing nail upgrades is only maybe worth it in a purely spell focused, speedrun-suited build.

[@Ganonussyszestygorillagrip]

This is *STRAIGHT UP* misinformation lol. Thank you for setting the record straight.

[@davis4718]

I have fun watching your videos, and you signal handedly got me through the first boss and green path

[@bluehairedboy2010-iw4es]

Thank you for helping me develop a fourth brain cell by watching this

[@xernash]

You upgrade the nail, not for the damage, but for the future lovely couple

[@Zekrozma3]

I’m a total masochist, i’m going for pure nail.

[@ZCRIMSHAW_KATAMARI]

little does this fool know, I am a masochist

[@azamibra7312]

Do you know the skin cuz I know the skin Tap more to reveal Skin:dead cells

[@hiib0t]

Jokes on you cause I've grown 4 brain sells

[@DefNotSkittles]

Thats like saying "Dont get spells becaus ethen your shade will get harder to kill"

[@Lcrexx]

Man's playing as the beheaded

[@saulgoodmansfingerr8527]

Hollow knight shorts when Hollow knight pants walk in

[@jackie6361]

me and my three brain cells feel attacked

[@Tairrow]

Damn, wish someone would’ve told me that 37 minutes and 19 seconds ago…

[@TheCoolRaboot]

At least the radiance doesn't get more health if you upgrade your nail.

[@gaghhuh2943]

The collector is a huge exception to "nail upgrade make game harder". Btw the health bosses gain is proportional to how much damage boost you get on your nail. But it makes easier everything but the bosses which is kinda nice for randomizers and for noobs

[@danielblanco3494]

Bruh i was looking for this video and gave up. Then I entered YT shorts XD

[@Mizu.]

Took me 92% of the game for me to notice that I did need to upgrade my nail

[@TendoTheDude]

Crazy thing about making the enemy stronger, you get a subsequent increase in your own strength. Hollow Knight is designed to be exponentially more difficult but likewise more rewarding and you have LESS than three brain cells if you try and deny that progression...

[@Fridge_fucker]

I need to upgrade my nail to kill nailsmith

[@BLZ231]

You know it’s bad when the alligator picture is the most wholesome post in the video.

[@K_A_R2892]

But but but I only got 1 cell cruising my brain...am I still allowed to watch?

[@basselakos2467]

*unbreakable strength joins the chat*

[@shibe_exe2749]

This video has convinced me to upgrade my nail.

[@primary4849]

Bro on a mission to make noobs rage quit

[@Flowery0]

Alright a fucking good loop

[@Sonicplays6230]

Bro my 1 brain cell just said screw it im gone

[@Boogie_Woogie866]

It pleases me to know that dead cells had a two way crossover with hollow knight

[@zisischartampilas6601]

it makes it significantly easier

[@LilRemoteCtrl]

This is ridiculous! It took me ages just to knock down the Soul Tyrant ONCE with my unupgraded nail!

[@lilymarra1668]

Genuinely the best loop I’ve ever seen lol

[@persondy-t]

B-but I can one hit primal aspids with a charge attack…

[@nuuruarked6117]

Oooh, a dead cells skin, you're cook

[@nuuruarked6117]

I mean cool

[@Misxch]

make me I will upgrade my nail EVERY SINGLE TIME… including yours

[@Nathan-explosion_games]

Im gonna upgrade my nail anyway

[@user-qx6jn4gj9i]

Even if husk sentries gain more health (which I doubt do) they still get easier as you upgrade your nail

[@IceGoddessRukia]

[Me on my way to get the last pale ore] How about I do it anyway???

[@0_bus]

If he's bringing up "the pale lurker" and "the crystal guardian" you know there ain't that many bosses affected by this

[@Hoverbeanie]

3 brain cells? I have no brain cells, should I leave?

[@ModernValkyrie23]

I wish i knew this before i upgrade twice

[@mildlyentertainingham]

He got the beheaded skin

[@ILoveLittleChildren]

I hear you, counter argument: primal aspids

[@lemonking96]

But I'm doing it all. Give me that dead bug.

[@gabrielrussell526]

The first time I played I was always to scared to use spells because I always thought "What if I need to heal during a boss fight." While being a one mask and full soul.

[@ThatGuy-xg7eb]

This encouraged me to do a max% run with no nail upgrades

[@xanderhell2038]

Is that a little Dead cells guy? Nice

[@Hallowed_Gaming]

It may make them have more health but you still kill them in less hits. The only downside to upgrading your nail is that the mentioned bosses harder in godhome with the nail binding. (pure and coiled nail both and the one directly before that do 13 damage with said binding.) take a way, only get the 1st and 2nd nail upgrade.

[@Grapely]

Can we talk about the fact he was at 69 geo there?