Why So Many ADC Players Have Anime Main Character Syndrome | League of Legends

[@loptr9581]

ADCs complain the most out of any role in the game, but IMO they also have the most reason to complain out of any role in the game.

[@enginerunsable]

Agreed.

[@reaganjones7684]

🧢

[@ButterNuss.]

Every role has things to complain about. Top has no agency, Jungle gets blamed for everything, ADCs get blown up, mid had like 6 gank paths for the longest time and Supports are supports (and mad about it). Perfectly balanced. ADC players just like to play victim as if every other role was perfectly fine.

[@alihorda]

They are the most braindead role so they can't complain

[@mostafaelzohirey9187]

​@@ButterNuss.Well supports are mad about ADCs

[@HeavensBane53]

Also something worth remembering about ADCs in early league: they were often needed for turret pushing. There was a time when AP didn't give you any damage to turrets and toplane was mostly tanks, so the only person on your team who could actually push was the ADC. It's a factor in how early league metas developed, which later got turned into the standard the game was designed around, that I never see get brought up. I think most people forget there was a time when only your attack damage did anything to turrets. Of course, this is another thing that has long since been outsourced to other roles. Now pushing is more the domain of top laners and even mages can chunk through towers.

[@orshabaal8990]

a select few mages can push towers effectively, namely those with attack speed or passives/item passives that interact with turret, or very late game mages with abnormal ap like veigar. But other than that, non of them will ever compete with a marksman with 2.5 attackspeed, and early on marksmen are way way way better at damaging turrets.

[@erinbyrnes5921]

It's funny how allowing everyone to destroy towers made Riot add plates to towers to prevent them from falling too early. It's artificial game length. Even tanks can take towers quickly with their turret busting rune.

[@WhenYouGoMadd]

Riot should remove AP damage to towers. So that the Bottom role can have more of an identity.

[@Sonicx5040]

​@@orshabaal8990 Because early on, bot lane tower is the only one that doesn't have damage resistance. Caitlyn can take a tower plate at 4 minutes, sure. But the same Caitlyn at the same time will do half as much damage to the mid tower at most.

[@KAANEJ]

​@@orshabaal8990nothing will ever compete with rengar as steroid 3 shotting towers that shits funny as hell

[@MajinCanon]

There is some sort of special pain that you feel when you are 2/10 and still the main focus of the enemy

[@entro-p1]

I just had a ap malphite support that did just that (I was playing Ashe) He flash R ignite off cd, until he figured out that… he didn’t need to ignite (still oneshoted me)

[@MajinCanon]

@@entro-p1 ff 15 ashe feeding

[@artiom677]

We call this kda farming

[@orshabaal8990]

it comes with the role autoscaling into late game. putting them at 2/10 isnt enough as it would to put lets say an ahri or zed at 2/10 because the adc will eventually be the strongest regardless, so each kill is an attempt at delaying that.

[@justinjakeashton]

Maybe because you have the easiest time in the game farming from a safe distance and magically start oneshotting everyone the moment you get your 3rd item?

[@userjerf2993]

Someone also mentioned this but in team fights, if you’re already struggling in game, it really feels like you can’t do anything. If you’re not doing enough damage to the frontline, you get blamed. If you try to damage the back line, you get one shot. If nobody helps you survive from the assassin or mage, you get one shot and blamed. It’s lose-lose unless you hard win lane, and even then in this season you can just get one shot by a mage who isn’t even fed and lose the whole fight/game. People expect ADCs to carry in situations where it’s impossible to do so, in pro play they get peel and proper support, in solo queue you get a Teemo sup and then they ping you like it’s your fault you don’t do any damage

[@Lkabss]

There was a moment during worlds this past year that really made me give up. Jdg was playing zeri lulu - a notoriously amazing scaling lane that just needs to survive. So when they got a lead bot lane early, it was HUGE. Beyond what Jdg could expect. 5 minutes later Im watching one of the best botlane combos in the game get zoned from an entire teamfight from a *single* azir soldier.

[@00J-Tone]

To be fair, Azir is just that guy

[@coolchrisable]

@@00J-Tone His soldier was jsut standing there MENCINGLY

[@forseti3811]

Your comment got me curious, which game are you referring to exactly? I don’t recall Weibo playing Zeri Lulu at Worlds 2023, unless you’re talking about a different Worlds?

[@Lkabss]

@forseti3811 you're actually completely right, mb. This was jdg vs t1 game 4. About 22 minutes into the game after the knights ori ult under t1s tower. Watched it right before worlds finals so got the teams mixed up.

[@alpacaodoom]

​@Lkabss my brother in christ, it was faker playing azir. Ofc they were gonna have issues, that is the worst situation for any man to be in. Honestly if I was at a worlds game and faker picked azir at match point, it's time to walk into the ocean.

[@h4roeverynyan55]

Another thing to mention is that usually as ADC, you don't feel like you are able to play the game until 3 to 4 items at which point the game is already decided most of the time. When I play Camille top and hit the Triforce powerspike I feel delighted, because a single Q does a quarter of the enemies healthbar, but when I'm playing Ashe it feels like i tickle the enemies, so I don't actually have any fun at all until 25 minutes into the game. ADC gameplay feels like a never ending cycle of "Oh boy the game started I can't wait to farm for 20 minutes" > *game is over* > "Oh boy..."

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

When is this? Is this Season 9? Because nowadays Trinity sucks balls and Camille loses vs most of the toplane roster right now.

[@louisvuitton1859]

@@Geheimnis-c2e okay not triforce then, now it’s sundered sky. lol not an argument dude

[@orshabaal8990]

i mean, i would never play a late game champion and then complain about my powerspike being... late game... at that point i would play another character because im not retarded.

[@akeyrus6774]

⁠@@orshabaal8990most ADCs are unfortunately "late game champions" since you need double your top/mid items in order to actually do some dmg in fights, otherwise if you ought to play something that’s able to win early and snowball like Draven or Samira, you’re still very dependent on your supp/jungle/mid especially with the new map alteration that just makes it a nightmare for you to survive in and out of lane.

[@akeyrus6774]

Having to buy LDR or smthng with pen just to do 100 more dmg to a 4000hp sion min 25, a sion that deals 300hp per auto with titanic only. ADC was once THE dps rôle obviously, unfortunately solo laners are much better at doing that reliably while still being able to survive.

[@cmknight9992]

It can't be main character syndrome if assassins don't let them be characters

[@amilo5]

you got the real reason

[@ur_boyfriend8612]

or bruiser. or tanks. or mages. or the support leona with a sunfire melting a jihn while he tickles her.

[@theikachi]

to be fair, its the job of an Assassin to not let them be the main characters, but today, brusiers have more easily to kill an ADC, the still get the ADC below 80% with his/her abilities and 2 AA and boom, dead

[@MadIIMike]

Well, they are the main character in a Re:Zero kinda way.

[@hamdepaf6686]

It is absolutely anime main character syndrome when you have a Harem of Assassins trying to f*ck you even tho you are the most bland person around.

[@captaintenacity8761]

As a bot main that switched to top/support, the role can be summed up as “zero agency and zero sympathy; and damn sure no empathy”

[@UhOhUmm]

If you play a damage dealing support like Lux or Xerath you can outdamage the ADC in majority of solo queue matches. It's just sad. These days there are multiple one tricks that play melee champs in botlane (yasuo/fiora/qiyana) and get all the way to master/grandmaster. Should not be possible.

[@izidorfalosny]

​@UhOhUmm I love playing adc with my duo. When I play solo, I just pick support Senna, because playing with random supports is agony. I have above 80% wr with her and don't remember a single game where I had lower damage than my adc.

[@BrightWulph]

​@izidorfalosny Reminds me of the only time I played Yuumi support (I had a broken wrist and Yuimi can be played almost completely one-handed) with a random, as my adc duo was auto-filled mid. My adc random did alright, but was getting pretty creamed, think they had three deaths at 10 min mostly due to bad luck and poor placing (Yuumi shield early can only do so much) I was trying to be encouraging and letting the random know I wasn't upset, but my gosh our top lane was loosing their goddamned mind. Just endlessly insulting the adc for being "crap" and threatening to feed and go AFK etc, acting like an absolute prima dona. Funny thing is, our ADC got some good shut-downs during some fights and ended up becoming a killing machine and we ended up winning.

[@yeban5116]

Cry

[@kerumochka693]

​@@yeban5116так не сри, маменькин топлейнер

[@THEkullerpuller]

After maining adc for years I think the thing that got me to finally quit the role the most is that often after a loss you feel like there was nothing you could do even if you played perfectly. If I'm playing any other role I feel like I can have impact on the game no matter how my early game went and I can always go back and look at things I could have done differently to prevent the loss. As an ADC I often felt like the game is decided by things completely out of my control, no matter how well I play. Even If You get fed early and are ahead in items the baron fight that decides the game is still decided by things like do you have vision on the enemy assassin/bruiser? Does your team peel if they get on you (which most of the time you can't actually prevent due to the mobility they have)? Does your engage actually wait for you the get into position? The fact that you are way ahead and could do a lot of damage is at best third or forth most important factor in this equation. I think the problem is that other roles have more of an ability to actually create the circumstances they need to win/carry whereas on adc the circumstances are dictated to you and you need to hope that everything is right for you to do your job.

[@dimitripollard7781]

I think this really summed it up. And I would add on that because so many new roles have carry potential you're no longer seen as worth playing around/protecting anymore. You don't win lane in ten minutes? Your support is now the teams support. Good luck. Team fights where you need peel? Peel for yourself the tank sion is deep diving to get kills and your support is following. You're not the wincon anymore but the game still balances you like you are. Not to mention that similar to some more stationary mages your range is beginning to matter less and less. High movement speed assassin's and bruisers and dashes galore. You can't maintain the distance that's meant to be your advantage

[@anthonyfaiell3263]

To add onto the range advantage point. Yea, if "stationary" low mobility characters have more damage by even 100 or 200, it doesn't really matter because high mobility carries are still one shotting. So it's not like that tiny bonus even really means anything in most practical scenarios.

[@Twitch-oq3ir]

cait has 650 range yone's 3rd Q has 1050 range. His E is a 300 range dash and gives insane movementspeed and his R also has 1000 range. without movementcommand he has a range of 2350. There is a reason why a lot of people play senna nowadays.

[@donkylefernandez4680]

Interesting, this seems like a side effect of power spiking where adcs go from 0-100 in 4 fucking items whereas everyone else gets a nice 25% per item.

[@donkylefernandez4680]

@@kosmique ADCs counter stat sticks... sometimes... So increasing their range anymore would invalidate characters like Mundo (build a thornmail), Nasus (flash Q one shot), Trundle, and Mordekaiser. They're already forced to take damage just to get in your range barring something like Counterstrike. Although, I would like to see a stop to these Cho'gaths, Mundos, and Sions literally walking through my auto attacks. That little range can be called the warning shot and only be available on a cool down like- GIVE EVERY ADC AN INHERENT RAPID FIRE CANNON

[@einjharrelraca]

@@Twitch-oq3ir oh you want a disgusting example. caitlyn has 650 range. as you said. skarner e, the aoe damage, slow, shield in a cirlce around him is at 700. caitlyn can NEVER interact with skarner without being instantly killed. mordekaiser? the juggernaut, the "low range super tanks"? yeah his point and click, delete the adc button is at the same range as caitlyn, so there are zero adcs who can ever interact with a post level 6 mordekaiser (the only time you are going to see him), without being zero counterplay killed by him now. like christ. why the fuck is the "long range glass cannon" being outranged by "short range super tanks"?

[@garen_4_life]

Vars's most NSFW video to date "if you are 0/3 as jinx you are useless, die, step on a lego, delete system/32 irl, end your legacy" edit: thanks for 800 likes

[@robby091000]

Naa, I think him loosing his mine on the damage Briar deals with her E is the most NSFW moment

[@LaplacianDalembertian]

IDK i never get crybaby adcs, cause when I que adc I get support who trolls and enemy adc plays perfectly. Still waiting to see when enemy adc will be afk.

[@lawsontse1545]

Lore accurate for jinx

[@mrpillow8065]

"...Then all throughout mid-game they get _________ by the enemy assasin or diver..."

[@Safineya]

I fully agree with that statement tho. ad "carry" that goes 0/3 and is only complaining without trying to solve the situation doesn't deserve no nothing. They are the reason games are lost but rarely if ever are they the reason the game is won.

[@dravendraven1471]

What do you mean anime main character syndrome? I, Draven, donate gold to the enemy team whenever I get paired up with a horrible support just to make them win the game much more easier.

[@lostlegionnaire3767]

Name checks out

[@Dexuz]

Hello Tyler1

[@_ScarCrow]

Hmm a fellow zeal and mobility boots enjoyer

[@Adjusting1]

Goat

[@bug5654]

This guy is holding up the entire League of Draven on his shoulders for us all.

[@user-fc7st1nu9m]

As a support main, I hate when my adc does well in lane we lose because by the end of laning phase the enemy yone is already 6/0

[@flowspersonaluploads3528]

Yone is so frusterating cause in top it feels like he doesn't need to engage with the game like you do. Minion aggro, wave mechanics, and such just don't matter. He just E Q3 W AA Q AA and you can't respond to it really.

[@hggpi]

As a support main i hate bot lane

[@Ihudth]

I was playing support velkoz, crushed lane, was 6/1 almost a full item ahead of a 2/5 yone. He dives me with no wave, misses q and his ult, tanks my kit, and tower, walks straight into my ult autos a few times, w, e out and 100 to 0 me. That's when I realized phreak is a fucking moron and there balance team are unable to be objective or do their job with anything resembling competence. Case and point zeri and yummi, how many changes, how many reworks, what's their current state? If you failed any task at your job that many times in a row, you wouldn't only be fired, your boss would be convinced you smoke crack on your breaks.

[@intoHeck1964]

Enemy yone doesnt even need to be 6/0. He just needs berserkers+1item and to be of equal level and he with still kill any adc from off screen.

[@Carpatouille]

Yone is Riot's mistake, like Sylas, Yasuo, K'Sante, Yuumi, Caitlyn, Fiora, Gwen, Leblanc, Zed, Veigar, which for all of them should be reworked into something more healthy for the game.

[@TekkatV2]

There are 10 players on the rift. 8 are playing League of Legends. 2 are playing Dark Souls.

[@ivannintendo]

With ranged attacks and vamp, they're actually playing Bloodborne

[@malekf5251]

Ohhh my god this, as an adc main I feel my heart beat everytime there's a fight at objectives

[@einjharrelraca]

@@ivannintendo ranged attacks that are outranged by the vast majority of the "melee" rouster. XD

[@midorayo1149]

​@@einjharrelracajust like bloodborne You out there with tiny pew pew against cursed beasts

[@einjharrelraca]

@@midorayo1149 pretty much. XD

[@zidaryn]

Part of the problem with being an ADC is, like the vid says, damage is everywhere now. But with that damage being everywhere squishy ADCs end up one shot. There are less tanks, more assassins and you're expected to keep yourself alive and CS like a boss.

[@Safineya]

Just do it then lol. Broken champs like Nilah who COMPLETELY BLOCKS BASIC ATTACKS and even lowers dmg of spells, Samira whk SHUTS DOWN ANY SKILLSHOT that flies on her, Caitlyn who you can't even get on thanks to her range, Senna........just fking Senna, Zeri who builds bruiser/tank and still shreds. Ad "carries" have the most broken champs in the game and are still crying for buffs cause they are all bad at the game. Else why would they be crying about balance with so much unbalanced crap in their own champ pool?

[@lunadead]

​@@SafineyaThey wouldn't exist if mid lane mages or things like brand and Zyra just one shots adc with much effort at all

[@Slimycookie]

⁠@@Safineyathe same champions you mentioned would be broken if their role solely depended on their own skills. Botlane dynamic heavily depends on what champions the supports are playin. The same Nilah who completely negates basic attacks have lower range compared to the other botlaners -> thus making it harder to farm, (weaker against good support who knows how to poke), or engage supports that just locks them down). For Samira (she’s not adc, she’s fkin assassin, i hate her). The thing is if the adc role was so broken, everyone would be picking it top or mid. Vayne/Kalista/Varus top for example. I admit they are good in certain toplane matchups but honestly only advantage they have is the range and the only reason they are getting picked top is because they don’t have to worry about their support messing up on toplane. It’s a constant mental warfare in botlane about how to farm while keeping eye on enemy adc, enemy support, your adc, enemy jungle, your jungle, enemy mid, your mid. Ps: it would be very good if your success only depended on your performance only, they say some asc’s are being toxic but you can’t help but be toxic if your support keeps getting your cs, messing up and dying constantly to enemy botlane, not warding, being camped. The reasons adc’s cannot perform are so much and half of them are because they need to depend on other people(support)

[@MarcosPaulo-su6ex]

​@@Safineya hur dur, Nilah is Broken, K'sante hello b¡tch, Samira W is broken, Yasuo W having 4 times more duration, Pantheon tanking EVERYTHING, FIORA w making her imune to the game( excluding turrets ) like she blocks stun and True damage and stun

[@einjharrelraca]

@@Safineya hahahaha. time to point out how bad you are. you mentioned never being able to get into caitlyn range. of the 93 melee champions in this game, 83 of them have tools that outrange a rapidfire cannon caitlyn. you are quite litteraly just bad if you cant get on her in 2024.

[@valven6058]

I'm an ADC main since season 9 and I don't lash out at my team but you hit the nail on the head. It feels so frustrating to only have one job (damage) and everyone else can do it just as well while having all the survival or mobility options of their normal role. That and having to deal with the "Bot Lane Fiestas" all early game and then getting blamed for it later when I can't keep up with the ADC that did get all the help is probably the worst feeling for me in league. Oh also the pings when the enemy assassin kills me in 0.39 secs are just the best, "Yes I did see him leap out at me" "No I didn't have time to react" Lol.

[@livingreverie5951]

Not to mention that you kinda lose more faith the moment your support Instant Hovers and Locks in Senna (mostly the ladder) or an artillery mage It mostly means that they aren’t gonna play for you, give a damn about you, or give the slightest fuck about helping the team cause they would rather focus on getting kills to be helpful At the same time I sit there seeing the damage charge of my 0/5/11 Lux support dealing triple my damage as I went 5/1/12 on Ashe as Lux has only Stormsurge as I run around with Tri Force, Bork, And Wits End

[@RainerRilke3]

I'ts just baffling that Riot expects players not to complain when playing a class that's pretty much unchanged for the entire history of the game while every single other aspect of the game has radically changed multiple times already. All of the checks and balances that used to exist for other classes were removed, diminished, or are clearly not favoured by Riot's modern design philosophy, meanwhile ADC not only hasn't changed but has gotten significantly more dififcult to execute by virtue of other classes being easier to execute; and we're talking classes whose sole express purpose in the game is preventing ADCs from being able to play the game outside of gray screen.

[@hyd3334]

My problem with this video is that Vars consistenly says "they just have dmg" yes, but they have MUCH more dmg compared to any role if they play their cards right, lets just say im playing darius toplane, i run ghost and flash, i stomp the lane with 30cs lead and 3 kills, and 4 platings but then the enemy adc with half less item runs me down. Why? SIMPLE they have the range advantage and the most dmg out of all the roles(if you ask me). ADC is THE BEST role to carry(as it was designed), but sadly the playerbase and their mentality "i need to make a play since i am the carry" ruins the game a lot of the times, they dont wait for their team and die in a 1v2 or 1v3, making his or her team lose a drake and possibly a baron.

[@thekingofawesomeness9173]

I've been saying it for a while the ADC role needs something of a rework. With so many ways to become irrelevant to the game and everyone else able to do what you do and survive even with a team you become useless so fast then just endlessly get one shot

[@skyler1469]

Just play safe bro, under tower where you are safe :) yea you are stucked on one thing only, if you lose early its bye bye meanwhile rest of the team has more to do than just dmg but tbh these days adcs have mobility and survival options

[@Void_Serenity]

ADC is my secondary role so I've played it a lot, though mid lane is my main role. On Reddit, there always seems to be this sort of us vs. them battle between ADC mains, and everyone else on the League subreddit. You'll often hear ADCs complaining about how frustrating the role feels to play and they're really not wrong, and I'm saying this as an assassin main. When others' counterpoint tends to be "yeah but ADC meta", I believe they're entirely missing the point and especially have no clue how terrible the role feels in solo queue. Bot lane mains also tend to clutch onto the culture of the lane quite closely, so you often hear about them complaining about APCs going bot as well. I can sympathise with that too because mages have way more tools and burst at their disposal, and hit their spikes way sooner than typical ADCs. Of course you'll get an ADC with an overly inflated ego and act totally unnecessarily, but at the same time people really don't seem to actually understand how the complete lack of agency and incessant dogpiling feels freakin HORRIBLE. (I think I tend to see top laners bitching about ADCs the most, too. And their solo queue experience would be almost the exact opposite.)

[@luckerowl8990]

APCs aren't the problem, it's the specific picks that are absolutely insane giga broken or just plain boring to play against. when swain/seraphine are meta bot its fucking miserable, let alone shit like ziggs where looking away for 5 seconds leads to him taking your entire tower

[@livingreverie5951]

@@luckerowl8990don’t get started with the Taric Sona way back then

[@spencerdaugherty311]

top laners loveeeee to bitch and moan about adc's

[@wh1sp3rr]

This, and the fact that regardless of how well we play, regardless of how cooperative we are, regardless of how supportive and positive we act, we still get the stereotyping of being extremely toxic.

[@joshaltea]

Facts

[@themonkeys96]

I think there's also 2 other factors to consider: Uptime and Target selection critique. ADCs are expected to have high uptime while ironically being one of the fastest roles to drop. Often for other carry roles, getting one key play off in a fight before dying is worth it. Simply hitting a shock wave, blitz hook, assassination, ornn engage, or renata ult counter engage and then dying still has a massive swing to the fight. Meanwhile, the majority of an ADCs value is deeply connected with how long they're alive. There output is spread throughout the fight instead of primarily being loaded onto a single ability or combo. And this desire to stay alive for as long as possible leads to critique of playing safe. Often you're simply trying to attack the highest priority target you can while playing safe. This often leads to critique of "Why aren't you focusing X target?" while said target is behind a tank, a mage, guarded by a support, and trying to attack said target is overextend you to an assassin pick. But if you do overextend to listen to their incorrect call, you die and are blamed for dying. You're damned if you do...

[@samuelgarcia2510]

And damned if you don't

[@pianopride212]

This is why Kai'Sa, Vayne, and Samira are some of the most popular ADCs of all time. They get to skip the front to back if they want to because they get tools to jump and slaughter the backline akin to an assassin

[@themonkeys96]

@@pianopride212 Ironically, I think the exact opposite consideration is more at play. Currently, according the mobalytics, MF, Ez, Caitlyn, and Jhin hold the top 4 play rates, totaling 88.6% of total roll presence. The latter 3 are able to influence the fight from a significant distance away. Jhin can use W and ult from 2 screens away, caitlyn has range and E, and Ez is stupidly safe. MF is a unique situation. Her entire gameplan in teamfights is find a safe spot. Then ult. She almost leans more towards the frontloaded "mage" gameplan. It's easier to not be upset about an MF's death, so long as they got a good ult off.

[@timercolen1586]

​@themonkeys96 the rest are true but mf isn't really unique she is just overturned on lethality items. Her kit is very good for a meta where crit is bad because then she doesn't have to worry about hyper scaling crit adcs being better than her late. Her ult is great but also can really be a bait in this burst meta. Her best tool is her move speed being able to actually out run enemies which is something most adcs can't do without a condition.

[@themonkeys96]

@@timercolen1586 I mean MF is always getting recommended due to her single minded ult gameplan, even when she builds crit as that also increases ult damage.

[@kevingriffith6011]

The reason why they stopped calling the role ADC is because the top 4 ADCs were Swain, Seraphine, Ziggs and Veigar at one point. Mage ADCs bypass almost every single problem that marksmen have that you mentioned in this video. They have utility when they fall too far behind to do damage, they come online way earlier, and the team has plenty of damage already without needing a 6 item ADC to drive the game home.

[@megzmap8963]

I don't understand why people keep continue calling them ADC instead of Botlaner. ADC got 3 different definitions (Attack Damage Carry, Botlaner, Marksman) and it's really confusing

[@WhenYouGoMadd]

People seem to forget that Bottom is just the Role where the meta shifted to putting the ADC. As long as a team has an ADC they should be fine, it doesn't necessarily have to be in the Bottom Role. As long as you have a Yasuo, Yone, or Master Yi. Needing an additional ADC isn't really necessary. Unless they've done a really weird build.

[@einjharrelraca]

@@megzmap8963 that is because rito is for some fucking reason DEAD SET on changing the name of ADC to Marksman, and the community has been telling them for the last 5 years "fuck off, we aren't doing that".

[@einjharrelraca]

@@WhenYouGoMadd my issue is that ADCs are only allowed botlane. every single fucking time an adc becomes strong in another lane without riots EXPRESS PERMISSION, riot gutts them into the fucking dirt with no mercy. kog mid? ezreal mid? ezreal jungle? lucien mid? lucien mid the second time? (we was REWORKED OUT OF THE LANE THIS TIME btw XD) tristana mid/top twitch jungle kog jungle kalista top ashe top ashe support jhin support miss fortune support All fucking gutted because they left the botlane. That is why it is horseshit that adcs aren't even the best in the only position riot will let them be fucking played in And before all the top lane cry babies come in, Vayne top PEAKED at a 0.4% pick rate, you saw it maybe 1/225 games. most of you dont even fucking PLAY 225 games in a season. She was not meta top.

[@imnoncreative1233]

@@einjharrelraca toplane vayne rn has a 1.9 pick rate while seraphine who is the only non-adc champ with a pick rate above 1.0(she has a 2.0 pick rate). So clearly vayne top isn't dead. Next we have tristan mid which has a 1.9 pick rate in solo queue and is still seen constantly in pro play so its clearly not dead. Does this mean seraphine should be allowed to be played bot, no but adcs top/mid are cancer as well.

[@unauthkuromi9256]

Honestly this is so true, and perfectly encapsulates the pain of maining adc rn. There was another person who said that you couldn't play adc without have to check off a list of things that need to go right, and if any of them don't get checked you just don't get to play the game, sucks to suck. Like it's to the point where I am almost getting tilted in champ select because my support locks Senna, like they are immediately going into the game thinking I will not do my job as a carry and that they will just do it. Or troll supports. Or shen/TF just being in my lane whenever. It's kinda the worst, but then you get those moments where everything lines up and you get to do the cool ADC thing or penta or smth (As a Samira main it is the best feeling getting to pop off like that) and it keeps you stuck lol. ADC is an addiction for sure.

[@wesha3953]

I actually tilt the second tehy lock senna, sona or yuumi fuck all of them

[@Poske_Ygo]

Senna has both heal and shield, A doumbo

[@Yvy-temp]

I think mid laners also have this problem but they blame it more on junglers like most of the lanes so it doesn't sound as whiny as "my support is terrible"

[@dankmemes8254]

At this point it is a tradition to blame the jungler no matter what

[@ibrahim5463]

If mid lose jungle lose and vice versa

[@hteety]

It's more common top. As a mid laner, it's simply easier to not get fucked so bad that we get mad. This is extra true with the brush adjustments making it way easier to actually see jungle hanks amd traps. Toxicity tends to come from having a bad time, amd it's just so hard to have that bad off a time in mid bevause we have 50 safety nets when we get behind. Every role other than support just has way more potential to snowball out of control, leading to them just having a worse time and making the game more frustrating. But if all you're looking for is a role where you can avoid tilting, mid is definitely the easiest,though losing also affects other lanes a lot because you control prio for the whole map.

[@manuelius6306]

I really don't get the blame game at all. First of all, who asked and Secondly, why be rude to a stranger just because he is not doing to well at a game...

[@MIDO44444]

​@@manuelius6306 its a competitive game and if you are losing because of someone else's mistake you will be mad thats generally what it is all about

[@The5lacker]

Something I think you missed about the early role of ADCs is how they interact with Towers: namely, they’re REALLY good at hurting them, especially back in the day. Mid-late game, if you were fighting under the tower, you also had to worry about the enemy ADC chipping away at it from the edge of its range. You were essentially forced to engage on them, but unlike a melee DPS they were basically a single step from being out of your tower’s range, removing your advantage. Nowadays, teamfights and towers are taken radically differently, so this niche strength of ADCs is also radically devalued, in addition to carrying being something *everyone* can do now.

[@holyromanempire3445]

Yep, it's crazy to see an Azir or TF destroy a full HP Tower in 5 Autos in the lategame and standing there like.... wait a Minute, this used to be my Job. Why tf did i even pick Jinx?

[@ebenholz9]

that niche strength is long gone ever since turret damage scaled with ap

[@JustinSeizure]

@@ebenholz9 it's so damn stupid to see veigar chunk turrets with his autos. I remember how ap's couldn't push for s*it back in the day, but how it is now is just bs.

[@Lukashoffmann94]

@@ebenholz9Wouldn’t call it niche, as towers are a mandatory objective on your way to win a game. It is sad to see adc just being sustained dps and nothing else.

[@TheDoctorOfThrills]

Remember when they outsourced turret chipping to siege minions with baron+banner?

[@3ssenti4L]

Long time adc main since s2. This explanation of the eroding of the purpose of ADC, my favorite role, hit the nail on the head. It really holds me back from wanting to dabble in solo q again.

[@PeterKocic]

I'm also a seasoned adc since s2, I feel ya. I'm still doing solo q but this video hit hard

[@133774c05]

Yeah, been on and off since Vayne launched, and the way that other roles have been updated, and the power creep of other roles have made ADC often irrelevant. You aren't needed for objectives, the baron pit being more attractive early game. And many other reasons.

[@CitrusThirteen]

I've said this for a long time, but ADCs are in league what supports are in games like Overwatch. They are the primary target for the enemies, and their role in a fight is actually less about dealing damage/healing but staying alive to be a constant threat. Since ADCs usually don't have that big of an issue with dealing damage since most of it comes from their auto attacks, they are basically a constant stream of damage that reduces the enemies collective health bar. Same goes for healers in other games only with their own teams health bars. This is interesting because with one or two exceptions, league doesn't really have the dedicated "healer" role like other games do

[@intoHeck1964]

Another issue with ADC is, most of the time, your personal success does not matter without your team to support you. All too often I see a 3 item, 8-0 adc die in a 1v1 to a 1.5 item, 2-7 irelia/jax which just results in giving the enemy team bounty gold. Almost every fight, the pressure is on the ADC to play perfectly against their opponent or they die, even when they are ahead. Their reliance on their team means even when they play perfectly, they can still die because someone else made a mistake.

[@BLKCLVR]

In my experience, it boils down to having to rely on someone else to win lane while being the most feast or famine class. Even when you're feasting, you have to play so carefully and travel with a pack because you don't actually win duels against almost any other class unless you're grossly ahead. It feels at every point in the game like you need good teammates, and you just can't expect that to be true.

[@violetbitch9492]

especially if you're not even being ignored but all the other allies are actively taking all the resources in front of your nose while being ahead even in exp just by design.

[@inbeing3464]

if non-league players say that league of legends bring out extreme toxicity in people, then league players say that adc role brings out the absolute worst of toxicity in people. Honestly it is kinda understandable. You're so useless for the first half of the game that you need a second player to babysit you during the laning phase, and theres just so many things in the game that can easily screw you over if you make even a small mistake. Its not to say adc is a bad role or a weak role, but it is genuinely the most frustrating role in the game.

[@ignacioperez5479]

Is the only role where You can do everything perfect, make 1 mistake and lose the game

[@inbeing3464]

@@ignacioperez5479 thats not really true, your mistake does matter way more than other roles but its really not that big.

[@whatyalokingat1735]

not to mention it a coin flip with the other person, you can play fine, great even but it not alway confirm winning lane if the second person doesn't know what they doing and that aspect just make it soooo much worse

[@ioiioooio193]

@@inbeing3464 it IS that big, we can all agree a fed adc can carry games, but so can other roles, its just as an adc even when fed its the only role where you still need your teammates to help you regardless of how fed you are.

[@inbeing3464]

@@whatyalokingat1735 that is definitely true, a big part of why adc players are so toxic is probably because they have to rely on a completely random person for their success, unlike other roles that are mostly independent.

[@ghosttiger38]

I have noticed that as an adc player I never really get any honours even if I was hard carrying because the top laner never noticed anyway, the jungler never ganked me and so never really payed attention to me, the mid laner got ganked by jungle a lot and so honours the jungler, and the support either actually cares and gives me the honour, or was making my lane harder and thinks it was my fault

[@holyromanempire3445]

Jup, had a 32/1/5 MF Game recently where i dealt twice the damage of all my teammates combined and did a solo 1v4 quadra kill to end the game and not a single member of my Team gave a fck, just doing my expected job. But dare going 0/2 after getting level 2 ganked and four man dove at Level 5 and miss a drake fight because you're still on your way back to lane and enjoy the spam pings and bot diff comments and your jungler, mid and toplaner never letting you farm a single minion again if they can deny it 'because you're usless anyway'

[@0xlich]

He said it best, "It's a thankless role".

[@victorfonseca7258]

An ADC complaining for not getting honors is completely new to me. For a support to get more than 1 honor, he/she needs to play like a diamond smurfing in bronze. Most of the time, if the support manages to feed a carry though setting up vision, ganking or peeling, everyone is going to honor the one who got fed.

[@Underworlder5]

@@0xlich in the past, the common consensus in class based multiplayer games was "support is the thankless role". now that thanking the support has become common courtesy, it seems to have flipped to "damage dealer is the thankless role". how about we just give everyone due credit and leave it at that?

[@SoraNeet]

@@victorfonseca7258 I'm swapping from ADC to Supp and i get way too many honors, it's absurd the amount i'm receiving compared to what i had before, i'm sick of ADC role being a thankless role

[@Flatebo31]

I think you captured it exactly. As an ADC main, I tend to feel like I have to play everything absolutely perfectly to have any impact on the game. Obviously I'm not actually playing perfectly, and there are things I can improve, but my best games can just be torn apart by a bruiser or assassin that misses every ability but can just auto me to death. The biggest thing I point to when other roles say they have the same level of agency is Thebausffs. He can die 12 times in a game, but he has solo XP and has the ability to split push. When he finally is on the same screen as an ADC they are just one-shot. You're also just out leveled by every champ in the game, which adds to the lack of defensive stats. You start out down a level compared to jungle, mid is normally 6 when you're 4, and you don't get to remedy that until you're into mid game.

[@bradhurst6834]

I won lane hard as draven was like level 11 by 15 minutes, had 1 and a half items the enemy trundle lvl 10 got destroyed only had a tiamat and his doran shield. So what does he do? Path bot lane after one of his many deaths, comes from jungle because we have no vision cause it's low elo. It was a pure 1v1 cause enemy bot was dead and my support had recalled and what happens? He deletes me in seconds and I barely even took 25% of his hp using all of my cooldowns. That was with item and lvl advantage, adc is a joke role until very late game.

[@thecanadiankiwibirb4512]

The problem is, to carry you don't need the ADC's help if you are fed - But a fed ADC needs help to carry if they are fed And since egos are massive in league, after running it down people don't want to help their ADC carry, they want to ragesplit and lose the game

[@servant_symm]

Right. No one else has to dodge EVERY skill shot (or you die), position perfectly always, micro manage for enemy abilities as hard, all just to still die anyway to things out of your control. It actually is the closest thing to turning the game on hard mode

[@reload6887]

If you play support, you have to realize that your mistakes impact your ADC way more than it impacts yourself. Stealing minions, pushing the wave, spamming the wave with spells, stealing kills, giving just one free kill, ... As a support main, I know that no matter how bad my laning phase was, I can still provide utility with CC, healing, shielding, wards. Mistakes aren't so impactful, so I am less careful. But for my ADC, it's a whole different story. They get blamed way more often than me, even if I am the one who trolled way harder. I hope this video helps people understand how easy it is to make ADCs useless. When playing ADC, I had that one game where my support was getting hard diffed. She was playing Rell, and sat under tower most of the time, and I was getting dove before her eyes. She probably didn't know her champion well. I got completely destroyed by the enemy botlane, jungler, and midlaner, all this during laning phase. My team said I should just accept I had to give up my lane, in favor of them having impact on other parts of the map. Then, later in the game, they blamed me for being useless. Our jungler praised our toplaner for being good, cuz I was such a bad player. But they never gave me the tools to play. It was one of the worst games I've ever had.

[@voltiolord57123]

Actually good takes in this one. Playing ADC is a very infuriating experience indeed, as you say: do everything right: that's just what's expected. Do ONE THING wrong and die from it at a bad time (even if the rest of the team could've bailed you out but chose not to): you solo lsot the game, report adc, gg bot diff... While having next to 0 agency in early game. Life is tough...

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

Well, at least it's not like jungle, where if you do things right and your laners are getting solo fucked it's still you solo lost the game jg gap report jg gg jg diff

[@violetbitch9492]

@@Pyrrha_Nikos it's only not your fault if your laners keep pushing and dying under enemy turret, otherwise you can always help. Adcs can't do anything in any scenario

[@Rebellions]

@@Pyrrha_Nikos That's the Double-Edged sword of playing the role that has the most agency in the game. The Pros: You have the most agency in the game, you can leverage it to turn an otherwise even or potentially bad game into a full-on comp stomp. The Cons: *You have the most agency in the game* you are spoiled for choice in actions and therefore the most prone to taking the incorrect ones and failing to leverage that power properly.

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

@@Rebellions except the concept of jungle having the most agency it the game is complete cope from laners. It's not a weak role, and it's certainly the role that CAN have the most early game impact, but it doesn't have the most agency in the game because anything you can do is 100% tied to your surrounding lane states. It's the role that has the most options, for sure. But all its options are also tied to external factors like what lanes did you draft vs what the enemy drafted, or is mid and bot pushing to the enemy so I can for dragon (and even if it is, I might not be able to because bot needs to base, for example). It doesn't matter if my individual jg matchup is Graves vs Shyvana and I should be able to bully the fuck out of her, if I have Kassadin mid I can never invade because I will never ever in the history of time will have mid prio

[@robertov.dibisceglia7887]

This is well put together! The environment around botlane has evolved so much I think a ADC-midscope would be greatly appreciated from Riot. To have ways to integrate the ADC role into modern league. It got a lot of people quitting the role because its heartbreaking to know you did everything you can only to get outsourced by other champions who can do what you do for lower econ. It's sad because I'm an adc main since season 5 and I don't think its an easy fix.

[@Haelda]

Seeing adc as a prio role since season start screams the role is dying. As an adc main I thought about switching roles but I'd rather just stop playing till they fix the underlying issues.

[@sighman9209]

@@Haelda More about Solos not wanting to be counterpicked tbh

[@irl_girldemo]

I agree and think that's why mage bot laners have become so popular. If you fall behind on Seraphine bot for instance, you still have mountains of crowd control and utility to fall back on. You can even just go straight support enchanter build if you want to which is what most people seem to be doing atm.

[@kauewc2204]

Definitely. From a jinx enjoyer to a seraphine player on mid. Having perfect CS and not being at gun point because I died once is awesome. Also my teammates even try to safe me, I can't even remember how long it had been that a shen had ulted me, but today 4 times in the same game, he even typed "MB" once because I died due to him missing E. No way I return to bot Lane in general, sometimes maybe Tristana mid, but seraphine just feels better to play, and people are glad u picked it

[@duytran9086]

Feels like SoloQ ADCs just don't want to adapt to the new environment. Their time of being the only carry (or at least DPS carry) is long gone. You can blame Riot, your team for making ADC stop being unique as a pure dmg dealer. Or you can adapt and play other shit like mage, bruiser bot lane.

[@minhanhbui3325]

i honestly think they should create more characters like senna , ad dps yet tons of usefulness even if u fall behind , however those charachters must be targetet for adc role

[@orshabaal8990]

popular? would you call a collective pickrate of less than 5% popular? mages botlane have not been popular since s8. wake up from your delusions.

[@GE_Photon_Lord]

​@@orshabaal8990Mages botlane are played today...

[@ANiCKiN]

ADC has to play against 3.5 players. Name another role with this problem. You are trying to win while enemy jungle camps you, enemy dives you and your support is farming your creeps.

[@volcanicviper5984]

speaking of thankless role, i was in a discord server where this guy would post his adc games where he would go like 15-20 kills and hard carry his team and complain about not getting a single honor.

[@dreamysylveon8108]

I really like being an ADC, but whenever I get 4 man ganked and everyone just tells me to "just play save", makes me feel so frustrated and helpless. Being made the whole reason that we lost the game every time made me actually quit. Usually when I played with people I know, they told me they just play with me because I am an ADC who doesn't INT.. they usually carried the game and I felt useless every time because they did all the flashy cool stuff, while I had to cling on to live.. so yeah, I don't really miss it tbh. Awesome video, made me finally feel understood.

[@noremac387]

I've been playing an adc since s3. One thing I want to touch on is how kiting drastically changed over the years. Back then, in s3 s4 and s5, you could kite. Now I dont mean just space gliding. You could orb walk do enough damage to kill the opponent and not take too much yourself. Nowadays, not only does every class have a dash, every class is more tanky (up until recently every mage item had hp in it), and adcs are being released with 500 or less range. You can't kite. It's a team effort to kite now, and people dont want to be bothered by it. One of the main mechanics of adcs and it is getting close to impossible to do wach season. Im not even going to talk about the level gap. Where you're a good 2 to 3 levels down compared to everyone on the enemy team. And that's if you win lane!!

[@rawbhd4477]

@@noremac387coming out of lane ahead for the enemy mid lamer to be 4 levels up because your support never matches roams, how can i play the game?

[@noremac387]

@rawbhd4477 Sometimes, I wonder how the game would be if sharing exp would be removed. It probably isn't a good idea in the long run, but idc anymore lol.

[@poom323]

​@@noremac387 I feel like actual Tank is suffer roughly same thing as Adc in this season. While many assassin and mage (or even some bruiser) are surpass ADC for damage dealing range, some bruise r, mage and assassin are surpass the survivability of Tank as well especially early game.

[@noremac387]

@poom323 In my opinion, damage and lethality need to be lowered. Idk why they reverted the lethality changes and got rid of early armor. I remember in the old days, like around season 1 - season 5, it was a requirement for riot employees to play the game. You would even see a riot employee in your game from time to time. Sometimes, it feels like the balance team doesn't play the game anymore.

[@MrssS4Jumper]

Reached Diamond 2 as an ADC Main in S13. The role itself is very fun to play, and the potential dmg you can deal is the highest in the game. In my opinion, the main problem lies in the potential part, especially in S14 with all the buffs to mages and assasins. The amount of times I found myself loosing the game after a good laning phase, going like 130cs and 2/0 at min 15 with Ashe or Caitlyn, having 1,5-2 items leaving lane and still feeling like I have no impact if the enemy isn´t significantly behind, is astonishing. Right now in S14, if you get touched by any enemy player, you are simply dead. Its not about avoiding CC or main damage spells and afterwards doing your consistent damage on targets, its about doing as much damage as possible from the furthest range or in the quickest way possible, making yourself an artillery champion like Jhin, or being a "ranged assasin" like Draven, Nilah, Samira (or going full annoying mode and play Seraphine or Tham AD). The classic ADC gameplay doesn´t exist anymore, the only reason why champions who fit in the classic ADC role are still being played is that you have to share EXP on one role somewhere on the map, and that these champions are the least lvl dependent ones. These dynamics are the reason why ADCs have the "Anime Main Character Syndrome". They have the highest potential, and the lowest average outcome, which makes the role the most frustrating to play. You have the highest dmg, but the lowest 1v1 potential, even getting beat by a Morgana support, or a Brand, or a Xerath. And if any other role passes you way and finds a chance to even touch you, it is game over.

[@Ihudth]

Nice try riot. Everyone knows better.

[@Meowest21]

I get a stupid copy pasta from a friend every time I lose an 0/2 ADC match. He doesn't understand the value of an ADC/Support combo.

[@MastermindRidendo]

Ever seen a 0/5 yone land an ult and 100 to 0 a 5/0 miss fortune? I have.

[@ume-f5j]

ever seen a useless jax run down an adc endlessly with a 3 item difference in favor of the adc? of course you have

[@einjharrelraca]

@@ume-f5j my favorite was watching a talon with just a dirk instant killing a 4 item adc while being 6 levels down (talon lvl 9 vs 1jinx lvl 15) XD. Want me to make it worse? he didnt even land the second portion of his w, it was litteraly point and click instant kill XD.

[@ume-f5j]

@@einjharrelraca lmaoo its ok open red side botlane even more pls riot

[@SamuAguiaHP]

@@einjharrelraca skill issue

[@73d_th3_Master_Of_Shadows]

​@@einjharrelracaLier

[@Tada_Room]

As and ADC main, when I saw this thumbnail I already expected the video to be another outrage on ADCs being problematic and hearing all the jokes about them not being needed to win, however I was pleasantly surprised.

[@dio2809]

I think aswell that they can be frustrated because of support being the role with the most diversity in level. Sometimes you'll get a main support, with a perfect understanding of the match up, who will go in at the right timing, ward at the right moment, roam when needed, apply pressure, deny cs... When the next game you'll have a main top autofill support first timing blitz, standing three meters behind you for all game long... So you cant touch one cs and since you need to have a lead to be efficient as adc you just get more frustrated because at this point game is no longer in your hands.

[@julianvillacorta2902]

I'm and ad main and I agree with all you said in the vid. People are crying to give ADC a buff, and while that would make me happy on a surface level, I know that they would become wildly out of control if it was as simple as buffing IE and crit items. Goldfunneling is an unfun strat for everyone but the person who is being funneled in soloq, and increasing gold scaling on marksman will just lead to that, much like it used to be. Playing as long as I have, I'm really happy that the other roles find that they have much more value than they used to. Riot has done a great job with that, but I do feel like the other roles forget where we started. ADC should still be the DPS role, but I think it just needs to get a little more guaranteed value than it used to. A simple solution could be to shift power away from marksman items and put more in their base kit. The gold scaling they used to have is still there but now that everyone wants the money, you can't rely on being given the same resources as pro botlaners do. Maybe all they need to do is make that scaling less important. Give botlane more XP, more base damages and reduce the ratios on every marksman. That way they still end up with similar power but are less reliant on being funneled to get there. I think most botlaners still love having our only role be do damage but would just like the opportunity to do that more often. This would require another full class rework but I think its really necessary to make everybody happy. We should still get 1 shot if we misposition etc, but doing .5 damage to everybody when you fall behind feels really miserable on a class that gets blown up whether you are 15/0 or 0/15. If tanks get guaranteed durability and engage, splitters get guaranteed pushing power, supports get guaranteed utility, JG gets guaranteed map pressure, it only stands to reason that ADC should get guaranteed teamfight DPS that is not tied to 10K worth of gold. If malphite can press R and do something with literally 0 gold, I don't see why adcs shouldnt get to do the same, at least to some degree. You can really see this issue displayed on the ADCs that have good win rates right now. Vayne (free guaranteed true damage), MF(free damage with a good ult no matter how far behind you are) , Twitch(free stats when you press r and good ways to get picks even when behind) , Jhin (Free utility with traps and w to catch people and 4th shot does guaranteed crit and missing HP damage). What do yall think. Theres definitely a world where adcs can have more value for free and still be balanced, as after all thats what all the other classes get. It should come at the cost of their 15/0 giga damage that we all fear, look at and say damn ADC OP. But the consistency is really necessary if the class is going to FEEL good to play in soloq. Whether it really is already or not.

[@RainerRilke3]

As an ADC main, I agree. I also thought about it thourughly and honestly the only reason ADC is and will ever be dogshit is the fact that funnelling exists and is viable. It's a boring strat that takes more sacrifice than skill to pull off. As it stands, ADCs are pretty much the only role that can get permanently fucked over for the rest of the game by being camped. Like not even the early game jungler who stops farming to permagank bot gets punished as much as the ADC, who FROM THE GET GO has already agreed to forgo their early power for lategame scaling and now has neither because some other player has alreayd decided for them that they wont be allowed to play the game.

[@TheRelicOfOwls]

To be honest this is exactly how dota carries are typically balanced. They have busted kits by default that only get emphasized by items, but most of the time you actually itemize to cover weaknesses rather than more damage etc.

[@zeyadhossam8193]

an an ADC main i can say unfortunately if they buffed ADCs champions not the role but the champions you will find a lot of degenerate fucks who will play them in top lane , that is probably the reason why we have low resistances from the first place

[@poom323]

I feel like many actual tank need this treatment now as well. Tank have a lot less survivability during early game nowadays, Tank need 3-4 item to be tanky (or 2-3 item if oppponent troll the draft) while bruiser, mage, assassin can just pick a bit of tank item to be unkillable.

[@banyani4048]

honestly most people complaining about adc should bless themselves with a few games of adc 🙏 I'm a support main playing jgl / adc occasionally and the experience is just... different.

[@bearbyboy5183]

Playing adc as sup main just gives u so much perspective. Never felt so vulnerable to being dove by 4 people while the sup start blaming u for dieing

[@banyani4048]

@@bearbyboy5183 That too, i play both to get a better understanding for my lane partner. But also, i swore to myself to never pick ADC without a premade (pain), so were more coordinated. What i feel most vulnerable about when playing ADC is the fact that a lot of times i feel like i dont have my own game in control. theres so many external factors that play into my own game, and most of them i cant even directly influence. Junglers ganking, midlaners roaming, supports supporting and making their own decisions, two constant enemy laners, toplaners who i havent seen all game but still basically oneshot me with a 3 level advantage. i love ADCs and the role and the champions so much, but it just feels so bad playing it. And no, i dont want to play APCs because they dont have the playstyle i desire. I genuinely am so mad that the pro scene basically directs the entire games balancing.

[@laurensd.l.2717]

I was about to say the same thing, started out as support/jungle but got tired of adc's completely freaking out over the littlest things. Decided to give adc a crack myself and it actually is a completely miserable experience. Even in late game soloq (low elo), when you finally made it to where you needed to get. You get abandoned by the team once a fight breaks out and get cc-chained, 1tapped or run down by a prancing bambi. "GG bot gap ff" No thanks!

[@banyani4048]

@@laurensd.l.2717 Had a game recently where I was even early, high cs, even had decent damage (based off the post game graphs). Overall, good game. We won. I felt like i didnt do ANYTHING that game. The minute i got my last item and i was about to deal big damage (i hope), my teammates ended. So, i played everything really well, did my stuff, cs'd well, took part in fights i could and played careful asf to get to my last item, the time where im supposed to shine just for it to... end, exactly at that moment. oh boi was i mad so anyways, lets be real, even if i had 6 items id still die in a snap to some mage or assassin being behind in levels and items.

[@pictureversion]

This is also why as a fill player I think more people should at least play some of every role. Then you can make a decision if people are justified in their pain or if they're just brats. Each role has their pros and cons.

[@cj9378]

I always try my best to keep the main character syndrome in check and keep resonable,and i like to belive to most ADCs do.But when a midlaner does 5x times more dmg than you while you also get oneshot by assassins in one button...it messes with you man...

[@servant_symm]

wOmP wOmP iTs cUz yOu aRe 2 lEvElS dOwN cRy mOre

[@alice.pesconi]

That's the reason why I play in bot lane with champions that have great utility like Seraphine or Ashe. You can still be a threat when ahead, but you still got your utilitys when behind. It's absolutely frustrating trying to ADC normally in the past few years...

[@Kingofredeyes]

My issue as a support main with ADCs is when they have it set in their head how a match-up goes and won't deviate from it at all. Like when I'm an all-in support like Leona and the enemy support is a Zyra, you can't play that lane passive, you will lose to the poke. You need the early lvl 2, and you need to all. If you can't get that, then you have to avoid poke until the wave bounces and you get lvl 3 first and all in. So many ADCs just think you just sit back and eat poke while farming. You will scale, but you realistically can't survive long enough unless the zyra is bad. He'll I've had games with an ADC trying that feeding 3 deaths and then finally going in with my all in to score a double kill, and them revert back to passive farming. It's infuriating. If you are an ADC, you MUST follow your support's lead in the early game. If you don't, you will lose the lane. If your support is bad, yes, you may have to change up, but if you don't at least give them a chance to get you ahead, you never will be.

[@Furiasu]

Those clips from the older League made me feel really sontalgic, mainly because people didn't die 2 secs after the fight begins, they could at leat fight bakc, unlike today 1 shot meta

[@CaptainStoutland]

I feel like you really hit the nail on the head with this one. I used to main bot for a long time and now I don't even play SR anymore and rarely play the game since you either lose early from being ganked or the enemy being better or not working with your support well, it's frustrating to sit in a 20-30 minute game and not do anything for the entire game since you either lost early or everyone else did well so what you do as an ADC doesn't matter. I'm not sure if this would have mattered if this was mentioned in the video or not but mage bot lanes/supports have become more common place and can dumpster an ADC into oblivion which makes the process of falling behind feel worse

[@pianopride212]

I unironically said for years that I wanted Spellthief's and Scythe removed from the game full stop. Give ancient coin back to those that need the mana regen, but supports need to not be bigger damage threats than ADCs in lane. This season, I got my wish: spellthief's is gone, but Zak's and Bloodsong ironically do more damage than the old items ever did

[@AlastorXIV]

As a master tier ADC player you put it very well into words what we feel as bot laners. Our class of champion simply needs so much more to do the same things as everyone else, we are born without privilege and still expected to become something with so many things left outside of our control. The only way for this to change is if champion design changes and ADCs lose their identity. Its why the best ADCS for the last few seasons have always been AD Casters more than traditional Crit Marksman, they can abuse all the items every other class does and are better balanced due to the fact that their dps isn't tied to AA's so they scale faster/with fewer stats. Sadly for the 4 other roles to be happy ADC must remain helpless, or people have to accept that Marksman will die out for AD caster champs that have the same 1v9 Potential as everyone else.

[@matosmartin4447]

Mages and hybrid on-hit characters are better. Or play yash, nilah, samira, draven, lethality mf.

[@Overspark1999]

@@matosmartin4447 fuck all of these champions you just listed. i genuinely hate all of them with a burning passion

[@maoc389]

The other thing is, they want to keep adc weak because they balance for pro play where adc is strong, which makes it miserable in soloq. The few weeks where it was jinx/aphelios or lucian/zeri were boring as fuck to watch but man, as a player, adc never felt better in those weeks. Having huge overhead shields so you couldn't get one shot felt really really good. But it made proplay boring so they changed it. It's just so fucking stupid.

[@einjharrelraca]

@@maoc389 my favorite is that pro play isnt even any better. we just sat through a full years of castors every single game saying "OH MAH GERD YONE DASHED 4 TIMES AND THEN AOE INSTANT KILLED THE ENTIRE TEAM IN 1 SKILLSHOT THAT HE COULDN'T REALLY MISS WHAT A PLAY ZEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS!!!!!".

[@alexithymia6288]

Playing bot lane is really a coin flip at this point. Building tank items is pretty much out of the question, so even when you're 10/0 you can still be dropped in a single combo from the 1/8 mid lane assassin or the 2/10 jungler. On the flip side, I've personally had some rough games where I'm 0/3 or 0/5 by the time landing phase is about to end, yet still I come back to lane and get jumped on by the jungler who was sitting in the alcove as well as a TP from the top and/or mid laner to send me back to base again. I think you're spot-on when you say nobody cares about the ADC or bot laner(s) anymore, since so many other champs and roles have ridiculous damage output, which is problematic because the glass cannon bot laners typically need a solid team to get picks and/or provide CC for them to reach their true damage potential. One pick I have found pretty consistent success on is Miss Fortune; she has multiple build paths, can avoid building boots if you decide to build Ghostblade (which you should because it's insanely good on her), and for lower elos you can abuse the enemy's lack of awareness to deal huge damage with Q bounces. My backup pick is Caitlyn because of how safe she is, due to both her E and having the highest base attack range of any champ in the game until later on when Senna, Trist, and Jinx get leveled up.

[@twentysevenkey]

ADC main here, you speak from my soul. Although i can describe myself as not having main character syndrome and MCS also annoys me alot seeing it on other players. The way i deal with the hardships i have to go through as an ADC is essentially trying to "not play *that* game". What i mean by that is finding ways of escaping situations where all i can do is Dmg and where i'd be useless if i was behind. This can be achieved by picking champions and following game strategies that focus on or involve other things than just doing Dmg. Meaning i go for CC, self reliance through tankiness and movement speed, (split-) pushing power, AoE Debuffing. Yes it means i often can not be that one giga dmg carry that people expect, but i can do so many more other things and my matches reflect the fact that i can be highly useful for the team even when behind and still win after losing lane. I dont need to be the "reason" we win the match, i just need to do everything possible to not be the reason we lose, and also support the other 4 team members in whatever way fits best in the current state of the game.

[@da_chowda]

Can you elaborate on more specific examples of this? Do you mean you play Ashe and Varus exclusively and build a few bruiser items instead of ADC items?

[@nicksmith516]

Yo that is very well put. If more league players would understand the "I don't need to be the reason we win, I just need to not be the reason we lose" mentality, they'd climb way smoother and we'd probably have a better community overall. Too many games I get where my adc(I know, stereotypical) loses lane then proceeds to purposely go bot til the die, respawn and repeat the rest of the game while flaming their support... If only they just try and mitigate loss, pick up farm where they can, and just wait for a good opportunity (that will inevitably come) to fight with advantage, they'll still get fed and can win the game. Unfortunately too many egos in Emerald and they don't care to get wins if they aren't the ones getting fed.

[@basic-7566]

aint reading allat💯

[@hggpi]

Anime character monologue

[@00J-Tone]

​@nicksmith516 Sure but big roles require big egos and supports aren't always angels. Some seemingly tank your lane. They engage on a fat wave, they get caught out against strong engage, they mess up your wave management and my personal favorite being they snipe cs to attempt to damage the enemy. I'd rather get 5 manned down bot on repeat than have a bad supp. Its like your best friend is actually your worst enemy. I'd prefer to lane solo at that point. Nothing is more rage inducing than a supp who very early on ruins your lane.

[@brokenmekhane5807]

Honestly I don't blame the adc for crying anymore, there is a damn good reason why they are always priority que. The day i saw my Nami just straight up 1v1 the enemy adc was the day i knew the whole class was beyond saving lol

[@PowerEd8]

The crit items suck, and many adc's have skills, etc - that scale with it

[@einjharrelraca]

@@PowerEd8 and every single time an adc finds a way to not build crit and still succed riot gutts their entire fucking kit, and then ductapes a crit ratio onto them as "compensation", thus perma gutting the champion until crit items aren't complete dogshit.

[@NeuroNinjaAlexander]

But don't forget that Rito can't buff crit items because damn near every other role becomes too broken Almost like it's a champ design failure Honestly I sometimes wonder if mages get more use out of crit items :/

[@einjharrelraca]

@NeuroNinjaAlexander with shadowflame they very well might get more use out of infinity edge than the average adc. XD

[@EternalPancake1]

I'd also like to say, not all supports even have the tools to protect ADC's from certain situations therefore their quite doomed in some situations and it'll infuriate the ADC for the Support themselves even daring to pick a support that may not have those tools. It's quite unfortunate, it's likely the reason Sona is so hated, with things like a Youmuus insane movement speed Kayn or Graves running at an ADC, and certain supports simply can't stop them from completely blowing up their ADC, so in soloque it gets even worse.

[@inplane9970]

On the topic of Sona, people don't realize how powerful her level 1-3 is. If she uses her W passive against the enemy ADC, she automatically wins the trade by default because she can decrease their damage output by 30%. If she stacks her passive properly and waits for cooldowns, she can basically do that for the entire skirmish. It's an ADCs duty to learn the strengths of their Support and play from it. If all they do is run and weakside themselves, then they bring it upon themselves to perpetually be behind. It's the reason I play Karma. I push the advantage regardless of my ADCs decision because I know what's best for them. I can't fix their mechanics or positioning, but I can fix their lane.

[@chibihime8908]

I agree! I'm a support main that specializes mainly enchanters (though I play a mean Leona) so many people think that Sona just presses W the whole game but she is so versatile and provides so much for her team. I understand that ADCs have it rough but bot lane in general is just a shit show regardless. Constantly having four to five people diving you while your team can't prrovide the same support. It's one of many reasons I quit League.@@inplane9970

[@Rodrik18]

​@@inplane9970on top of this, if you are playing a higher pressure support (that may not have as good tools for protecting) and you DO get an adc who knows their windows and can run away on the enemy lane with your higher pressure and damage, you end up scaling to the stratosphere.

[@StonedDragons]

Sona main here and I find Sona can also be an extreme lane bully, especially against melee engage supports if you shield yourself with minions and aggressively use Q into boosted auto in the early levels. You stack your support item super fast as well to the benefit of your other supportly duties. But at the same time it's the worst feeling in the world to get a bad ADC as Sona, being an item reliant enchanter who hyperscales into the late game you can be reduced to an ult-bot, you need them to do well to get assists, but few other champions can as regularly get 30+ assists if games go well. Naturally you also get yelled at if you refuse to follow the single braincell ADC who continues to face check the MF/Naut Combo.

[@USHCCode_Blue]

My god I've never had anyone say it out loud the amount of games where I was hovering sona and was yelled at for it has truly made me jaded@@StonedDragons

[@zachtemoro2116]

Went from being a Jinx OTP to a Braum OTP 6 months ago. The botlane just isn’t fun anymore without the proper help and when people ignore your carry nature. So I decided to forfeit my dmg potential to actually allow others the chance to 1 v 9 carry in the role thats supposed to be played that way. Imma be honest, I get nothing but praise from my ADC’s. More often than not they just wanted a consistent support who’s able to actually help them live longer than a second while also providing them an easier time in lane. Passively grant Armor and MR, intercepting Projectiles, and consistent CC, I’ve had maybe 1/99 ADC’s flame me and you could probably argue it was mb that game. With that said I’ve long since abandoned Bot role as a whole just bc Riot doesn’t give AF about them, and gone full Jng/Supp main. More often than not I see way too many cringe Mage supps and terrible Jngler’s who actively ruin the game for their Bot Lane than actual bot laners being bad.

[@kili3117]

Why forfeit damage potential? Play some scaling midlaner. Azir, Ori, Syndra, Viktor, etc... you scale just as well as any adc without all the downsides of being adc.

[@zachtemoro2116]

@@kili3117 … my brother in christ did you just not read anything I said besides “forfeit dmg potential”? I’m a supp main now who play’s Braum, IE a Tank/Warden who’s sole job is to protect my Squishy teammates. Where in any part of that did I say I was looking to plat a midlane Mage? I’d much rather be a help to my team who allows my ADC to be the ACTUAL Attack Dmg Carry (instead of cringe Support Zyra, Brand, and Lux)

[@alecasone]

I'm a jinx opt as well and I try to do the same for my carries. I'd played Karma for a long ass time as more of a bruiser to poke and eventually lock down for a kill. Most people seem to enjoy it.

[@YugoShokan-t8w]

Im a main jungle but tried out adc for a while mainlu because I got 2 legendary skins for ezreal so i tried him out. Something that i also noticed that even when you are ahead, your team refuses to play around you and then get mad at you for not providing enough damage when all it takes is one single mistake for the 0/8 talon to one shot you, so peel being none existent unless with a duo I can see the frustrations of playing the role

[@violetbitch9492]

people say adcs have main character syndrome but i'd say all the dumbass bruiser tanks that could peel for us going 1v3 and inting before the team arrives so that i can't play the game and we auto lose is more that than anything.

[@mordecaiissad8529]

I agree in general, league always suffered from the fact that most people simply don't understand team fights. I don't play ADCs but I've seen it a million times. There's tons of players that don't understand how to play with their team and get wrecked. However I think ADCs are also the role that tends to absolutely refuse to accept that sometimes the best they can do for their team is be a good enough distraction/bait/utility. Understanding that there is a carry on the team that can get this done and it isn't you is part of the game.

[@einjharrelraca]

@@mordecaiissad8529 now. imagine we told a bruiser in this game "yeah we understand you aren't even getting to play the fucking game by default cause of your role, but you just gotta be a good distraction so the people who are actually allowed to play the game can play". I can already hear the fucking hashinshin's writing my death threats for even suggesting such a thing.

[@mordecaiissad8529]

@@einjharrelraca hashinshin type players are always known as a liability regardless of their role. We had t1 doing the same thing, demanding to be baby sat or they feed. The point is this is draft and game specific and is relevant for all roles. It's the reality of the game. You either have players that are liabilities like hash, t1 and co. that will baby rage because they aren't the star of this match or you have players that understand that winning the game sometimes means helping your team carry get things done to the best of your ability and that the carry this match isn't you.

[@einjharrelraca]

@@mordecaiissad8529 you see thats the issue. there is no other role that has to deal with this horseshit. thats my entire point. no other class in this game is as useless as an adc who doesnt have 3 completed items and boots by default. When you're entire roles job in 90+% of games is "be bait" maybe the role needs some help.

[@sadomsa__8365]

Something not mentioned is the level gap between bot and the solo laners. If you win bot lane your still 2-3 levels down and one shot by everything else in the game. You can't take your bot lane win and carry it over to losing lanes because a fed top beats ADC, a fed mid beats ADC, a fed jng beats ADC. you have very little agency in the game even when you win lane.

[@Skarpyre]

More or less. As former adc main, we internalized being the useless h*e once in a while, it's part of the gameplay do be as little harmful for the team as possible. It's not a matter of being useful, it's about being the least useless possible. Now, we should draw the focus towards the jungle, crying for priorities without knowing the matchup mechanics, blaming kayle for not contesting the void grubs against darius is something that I still see in masters. Junglers out there are something we should discuss of. The term crybabies suits them more than adcs, which would, according to riot, be something between Lord DGAF and the scarred veteran. (I'm referring at tilt types)

[@coolbrotherf127]

I've played ADC as my for 4 years now and most frustrations come from having supports who don't really understand how synergize with their ADCs well. It makes games more frustrating than they should be sometimes and when it happens multiple games in a row most people will just get mad at that point. At this point I'm so used to it that it don't even say anything unless they are intentionally trolling.

[@lavacrush1234]

I put up with the adc role for that 1 in 10 games where I hit 6 items and I am the sole decider of the game. If I die we lose. If I don't take out 3 of the enemy by myself in a team fight we lose. 6 item jinx in team fight feels so good I put up with the bad of the role

[@gabrieltixidor5817]

Great Video (from an ADC main) but I would also add that Botlane is a duo lane instead of the other, which means 1 of them disfunctionning can cause both of them to get stomp. Maybe are they both good but playing different playstyle, as long as there is no synergy between adc and sup during laning phase the game starts to completly change. Mid/Top can hold a match up knowing it right, they are able to know how to trade and when/where they have advantage or not. As a botlane, most of the times you will try to trade ennemies knowing you have advantage, but as your mate do not share your view, you'll get taken down just cause you cannot communicate properly. Actually I've more winrate playing ADC midlane than bot and a way better winrate playing with a sup duo than solo. I actually understand this meta is about topside in really early so I won't blame any support who leave lanes to help other (I encourage them to do so, so I can solo farm/XP and get power spike faster), but most of my loss in this season are Support getting roaming diffed. Like the ennemy roam on every lanes to help while mine is just here to steal xp and make no pressure on the other adc who's able to solo farm and take advantage while having is team being helped. As an ADC now, your main role is to be a decoy and damaging is now secondary, but other people playing champs with 5 dashes have to understand that they have to wait for the ACDs to take the focus to start dashing in and not before or else no adcs will be able to follow up any move when they're crossing the whole map to make some as I say "TikTok plays" and try to 1v5 (they always fail). To finish this, main character syndrome is now in the hand of the playmakers champs like viego/yone/riven or all this kind of high mobility champ with 1v5 ability and no longer in ADC's hand and they have to understand it

[@briargray2355]

As a support main, I have a rather different take on why so many of them have main character syndrome: Ya know those little kids who are told they're entitled to a bunch of stuff and then expect everyone else to give them that all the time no matter what? ADCs are dependent on their team (mainly support and a solid bit jungle), which sets up this idea, at it's core, "it is my teams job to get me fed and let me carry and be the star of the show". ADC is the only role with a literal designated lane partner to try and ensure your progress. This is how it work ideally, in a world where every ADC player plays like a high elo ADC. I, as a support, ideally would always have an ADC worth sitting through a grey screen for. But most of us are not in high elo. These ADCs want to be treated like they're competent enough to hard carry, but don't follow up on your engages, don't back up when the enemy midlaner or jungler has been pinged as approaching, and waste every bit of effort made to peel for them only for them to run in with 10% hp and insta-die. And I feel more than other roles, ADC is one where the whole team can usually pick up pretty instantly if they're a terrible player. Come into the lobby telling the support who to ban, starts boasting, starts picking a fight with the midlaner. Once in lane they're eating every skillshot, missing all their CS, spam pinging their teammates the moment they die a totally avoidable death early. And then there's Jhin players, who pretty much always have Chad energy.

[@EebyDeeby515]

Having moved to dota recently I like how they handle the role of "ADC" I think if League wants to keep its dedicated carry role they need to make them stronger late and make their items more efficient for them the later the game goes. Or even change the map to make it more rectangular and see how that shifts meta and how and where champs are played

[@JustAViewer44]

How does "adc" work in Dota?

[@qseit5140]

​@@JustAViewer44adc in dota has many options to deal damage and be "fat". Dota has small pool of heros who can one-shot you. A lot of adc has blinks, dashes and "tricks" best example will be: Anti-mage, Phantom Lancet and Phantom Assasin. Carry in dota deserve it's name, while in lol adc wildcard between OK and trash bag

[@KiroFlutterwing]

@@JustAViewer44 Carrys in Dota start out ultra useless. You farm for about 3/4rds of games, and then all your team has to do, is completely helicopter around you, spending everything on protecting you. Some Heroes start at a Power level of 2000 While the Carry starts at 200. In the late game, the 2000 Starter, can achieve a maximum of 6000 While the Carry easily can go way OVER 9000. Point be told: This is HYPERsimplified. It's much more complex than that, but usually that's how a dota Game Plays out. In the Late game your main Purpose is to Defend the Carry by any means necessary. Your Carry dies early in the Fight, welp get ready to be cleaned up by their Carry.

[@blackice8634]

@@KiroFlutterwing Current state of league I don't think the games last long enough. Ultra bursty meta right now which means games pretty much end around 25 minutes on average right now. ADC need some sort of survivability given to them in the early game that makes them somewhat able to fend for themselves or make it so that everyone hits 6 at the same time and then the decrease in exp gains happens for bot lane. Because generally the reason why bot gets ganked so much is because mid and jungle can be level 6 while bot is 5 and at worst 4.

[@KiroFlutterwing]

@@blackice8634 Haha i think league is absolutely SHIT since S14 started. I had 0 Fun since. Rito just playing into the tiny dick powerfantasy of Assassins or Burstmage players. Played a game yesterday, where the Enemy Zoe missed EVERYTHING. just hit my ADC with a Autoattack for 60% of his health. Its so absolutely stupid faceroll bullshit atm. I love the Idea behind S14... but the execution... oof... absolutely awful.

[@yaboyengin2158]

I main adc and a problem I’d say the role has is the disparity between solo queue and pro play. Not sure about exact numbers but most pro play pentas I’ve seen have been the adc because they play around their adc. But in solo queue there’s far less peel and protection that an adc may need. It’s also tough to balance when you have to take into account ranged champs going into other roles and notoriously giving melee champs an annoying early game. In the end the role has high highs and low lows and I’ve come to accept it.

[@MisterAssasine]

pentakill isnt a useful metric as its (except for champs like yi) the easiest role to get a penta due to constant dps. Melees can only get in range of a few, not 5 champs. Midlaners are often burst-oriented, have cooldowns, they can oneshot some players. ADC can permanently attack and kill 5 players if the fight works great

[@einjharrelraca]

the issue is that adcs are strong late in a game where only the first 7 minutes matter.

[@EEFLmao]

As a toplaner I laugh with my 1/6/2 170cs and 4 tower plating, and I see this as an absolute win

[@gregorsmirnow6337]

5:48: "What's wrong with having top, jungle, mid, and support having more carry agency? Nothing." Completely agreed. What definitely *is* a problem is that they can all carry through ADC levels of damage. As long as carrying is defined as doing the most damage to important targets, then allowing all 5 roles to carry is a problem. It reminds me of how WoW used to have each class do one or 2 things well and be completely dog water at the things that they weren't meant to do well. It forced different classes to come together to cover each other's weaknesses. Both games suffer from lack of class identity now, though.

[@Gibbysaurio]

As someone who played adc back when the game wasn't complete dogshit: the game used to have a sense of purpose in the roles, the same way there are scorers, defenders and passers in any "ball" sport there was the frontline, the damage dealers and the supportive elements in LoL. Adc and Mid were the damage dealers, toplane (and in some metas the jungler) were frontliners and the support was tasked with keeping people alive. It was very easy to know what you had to do in every teamfight because roles had a core objective, to tank, to deal damage and to help your teammates. Since now all the roles deals exorbitant damage, no one thinks about the game in terms of goals and objectives but to use spells with maximum efficiency. Nobody really bothers anymore to teamfight, it's really just a deathmatch with no regards for teamplay, that's why as the adc I have to fistfight the akali and just die with no counterplay so I can spectate my team dive their backline. I really don't understand why it must be this way, a pro defender or goalie in football will never score a goal but they still love playing their role and feel pride for it, same way a striker will never save a ball from going in the goal. In the same way, I don't understand why all classes need to have carry potential through damage. In my opinion the only reason why it is the way it currently is, is because riot is incompetent and can't make tanking and supporting compeling so they just give them damage as a band aid for people who used to be unhappy with those roles.

[@lloydnoid6506]

Bot lane is the ONLY role that refuses to allow multiple classes to go there. Top lane has tanks and fighters. Mid lane has assassins and mages. Supports have tanks and enchanters Jungler has EVERYTHING Bot lane has marksmen, and will never have anything else. Its weird. I dont get why mages cant go there, or just anyone with a good neutral game. Thats why i loved playing Mundo bot

[@JBMVoid]

They did go other lane that it ruin game. Problem is riot balance

[@danilakalinin6261]

I personally switched to top from adc because of that. It kinda feels unfair how much more "scaling carry" i feel as Gwen than let's say Sivir. I think weak early game of marksman is justified but class overall should scale better in late. Bigger payoff for early suffering. Only problem i see is solo lane marksman meta if class will get buffed as they could have very little counterplay if buffed.

[@tatzecom]

the counterplay lies in how fragile they are and how weak they are early somehow this prevalent notion exists that if you play ADC, you should be extremely weak early because of your scaling, but your scaling is really stunted down because other roles should still be relevant

[@Lukashoffmann94]

Lategame adcs are still fine, they don’t need more strength in that regard, but it simply takes them too long to reach that point. Games got quite a bit shorter over the seasons, due to Herald, demolish, void grubs, ap tower dmg, etc. The minion gold nerfs back in the day also didn’t help in that regard.

[@einjharrelraca]

@@Lukashoffmann94 not even just that. ADC builds used to be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper before season 8 as well. phantom dancer, static shiv and a bunch of other as items used to be 2200 to 2500 gold, and infinity edged used to be 3200. so you could reasonablly hit a 3 item adc core with 7900 gold. versus today, where the most common adc core is 9400 gold. BUT WAIT WE AREN'T DONE YET. All of the adc attack speed items also used to build out of a component named avarice blade, which gave adcs, not only extra gold per minute as a stat, but also gave 2 extra gold per minion killed, each completed attack speed item generated about 250 extra gold in the time it took to farm the item out as well. so adcs are requiring an extra 1500 gold, AND lost on average 500 gold in income at the same time.

[@Zakaker]

Great video. ADC was my first main role (partially because I got introduced to the game by a support main) but I eventually dropped it in favor of jungle and support because having to waste half an hour of my life only to _not_ play the game because either my team refused to cooperate or I lost lane and became useless got frustrating real quick. And even now, despite playing the roles that are supposed to focus the most on supporting their team, if I see my ADC feeding I have no qualms leaving them to fend for themselves because like you said, if they can't do damage then they're completely useless

[@violetbitch9492]

it's so cute that other roles can see an adc int and say "fuck em i'll carry" but adcs see other lanes int and have to accept the LP loss

[@Matt-the-sink]

This is part of the problem. When they start losing, that's usually a sign for you to help, not leave them. I promise it pays off more than the few cs you lose not helping them. I'm curious how many deaths you need before you consider them feeding, too.....

[@violetbitch9492]

@@Matt-the-sink 9/10 times they are losing because they are worse players and you will end up giving the enemies kills instead of just losing a few cs while their fed adc can be oneshot with any other fed laner

[@Zakaker]

@@violetbitch9492 This, I gave up on ganking hard losing lanes cuz they will typically waste the advantage and die during or after the gank. I remember getting the enemy toplaner to low HP and trying to set up a dive only to watch my teammate int under their tower before I could even get there

[@AmadísdeGaulaa]

i think ADC palyers lose their minds by 2 things: -autofill support players - being one shoted by 0 5 0 champions (a lot of times this is the consecuence of having autofilled supports) So yeah, though i dont think is the most mentally demand role, that's for the TOPLANE

[@hugonamur4013]

Sincerely, all of the problems you mentioned are true, and riot really needs to do something about the role, particularly the crit builds which take way too long to be of any use in the current meta. But, mentally speaking, the worst part about the role is how unrewarding it is. If you lose as an adc, you're the fault for the lost game, for world hunger and our mothers not liking us. But if you not only win, but even get fed and really get to use your role all out to snatch that win, it just gets ignored. No honors, no nice messages, no gg, being 18/1/12 is "expected". The only honors I sometimes get are from my support if any, and I'm not sure people realize the amount of focus, micromanagement and stress it takes to come out of a game with such stats. Junglers may get flamed too, but they also get much more attentiol for playing well, while adcs are expected to play like doublelift or blast themselves.

[@ekim4926]

For context I am starting out and have a support who’s way better than me teaching me the ins and out of the game. When I first heard of the term “Carry”, I naturally assumed that I would be the one to carry the team to victory, it’s in the name, right? Nah, I got out damaged by my support a good 3 times all the time, which is fair enough, since he is very good and plays clamps that can deal damage like Senna, but it didn’t do much to my ego. I was explained that even though my champ is relatively strong early game (I play Ashe mainly by the way,) I won’t deal considerable damage until I have not only at least 3 items, somewhat keep up with the levels, while everyone else is not building as many items, because I was fed so many cs, which I still have to be good enough to last hit while not feeding into the opposite carry, but I suppose that’s the same thing for every role, so there’s that. Then I chilled 1 game on the top lane and I realised what everyone is saying about how ADCs have no agency. It’s not about not having no agency, it’s about those agency arriving late, usually when games were more or less decided, while being a good bit better than the other botlane duo (to get that power lead, even if you are a hyper like Kog if you’re 6 items and the enemy Ashe also has 6 items there is no guarantee for winning the deciding team fight), but play a bruiser into a bruiser and I realised that I might lose lane, but I have chances to make mistakes, because I’m naturally more tanky while only deal a little less damage, the margins for error are much higher. Maybe there could be something to be said about how skill intensive ADC is that leads to bot lane at least in lower ranks are coin-flipped (I am well aware that in other lanes at higher levels that is also the case, but novice players like me are less able to punish a Darius than a Jhin). I lost lane but still was a reasonable bag of meat and with my hook, the fed ADC was still hesitant to walk up to me, that’s pressure I could never get as an ADC. People say that there is too much damage in the game. I agree, but I also think that there is too much stats, everyone else is so tanky and deals more than enough damage and so early on too. Why bother with a glass cannon when you can play the executioner? Furthermore, I am accompanied by a support, which in my case I trust because I knew him personally and he is better than me, very much so, he calls the shot, he set up plays, if I play against a support of my level I won’t trust anyone like that. There would be misplays, miscommunications that leads to cs and lives deficiencies . Maybe in pro play Keria and Guma are gods and understand each other, but you can’t expect the same kind of understanding in 2 random gold or so players, right?

[@Ilyena]

I find it interesting that you said you assumed the carry in ad carry meant they're the ones who carry the game, cause when I had my brief time playing in 2016/7 and starting again recently, essentially from scratch, I took it as, well the attack damage carry. Carrying damage potential, not the game. Being heavily influenced by the faker hype back then, I always took it as the mid laner to be the focus and carry of the game whether they're mage or assassin.

[@minhocho5487]

A top main here. Playing bit lane both support and adc without a duo is like being stuck in a mental asylum. It will drive you crazy. Adc mains complain a lot, yes, but they do deserve it for the agony they go through.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

you main top and yet you say this. unbelievable.

[@einjharrelraca]

@@Geheimnis-c2e top lane has been one of the only 2 roles that have mattered for the last 5 years sooooooo.

[@freneko1695]

As a traditional adc main I love trying to scale at 20 mins farming a wave next to tower just for the enemy Yone with two items to pop out of a bush with 3 dashes and kill me with two autos.

[@theycallmetiger7340]

Shoulda had vision on the bush 4head /j

[@orshabaal8990]

this problem is universal, not an adc thing. adc may be his prio target, however, because of how strong they are, but yeah keep suffering from success!

[@theycallmetiger7340]

@@orshabaal8990 adc's moreso since less util on every marksman, if you have more than one util and use correctly a solo tower dive is near impossible

[@orshabaal8990]

@@theycallmetiger7340 if a yone tries to dive me id rather be tristana, vayne or cait than swain

[@theycallmetiger7340]

@@orshabaal8990 Truth! Swain has no self peel!

[@marcopolo3936]

Of course as an adc you get more frustrated because 1) 70% of the lane is support so if your support is braindead you are lost 2) you rely on your teammates to peal for you in teamfights, it doesnt matter if you are 5/0 in lane but enemy team has Vex Noc and your janna is frontlining

[@felmiers]

you cannot call ppl braindead if you can't even spell peel LMAOO and this is coming from an ADC main. you just want to excuse your evident stupidity on your team and not yourself

[@marcopolo3936]

@felmiers what do you main. Mid lane and cry about support dif and jngl dif when you lose lane. You have the most broken kit in league and still manage to lose games. Or top lane. You are a tank, oneshot people and your only job is to use your cc in teamfight. You have to click one button you can not even do that. Or jngl main. You die before every objective or get your baron stolen by a lux combo. Invade enemy jngl and die while no lane has prio. Or you are a stupid support main that roams when your adc has slow push, or go "help for voids" and let your adc die 1v3 under tower and lose all the Exp and cry about adc dif. Adc is the hardest role to play. Give it a try and see. You think jngl is hardest but guess what you can do nothing whole game and just farm and cross map. As a midlaner if you lose lane you can roam and kill them under level adc get back to the game. As top lane it doesnt matter if you fall behind you build your 2/3 tank items you dont die and do dmg. As support you have the most impact in early game but you can still do nothing sit with your adc afk and do nothing. But guess what. If you lose lane as adc (it might not be your fault by the way while all other lanes are always their fault) you can not roam you can do nothing. You can not farm sometimes because you get 4 man dove while your midlaner jerks in midlane spam pinging enemy is missing Give adc a try and see what you have to say

[@Crowned_Hearts]

I feel like the MAIN problem is a 0 5 Zed, Katarina, Talon, Khazix oneshotting an 8 0 ADC. There is a reason why Newer ADC's have more defensive options and offensive options. Samira W and R (and her E at launch as you could use it on an ally to back off) Nilah W, AOE cleave passive with 100% uptime and double E dash, Zeri's infinite wallride etc. etc. The champs need it to survive nowadays. And its also hillarious to see the other players complain about not being able to kill the ADC in some rare games and call the champs OP. I dont think the problem is not so much us having an MC syndrome its everyone else having a problem with ADC's being on the same power level as them. I dont know its hard to explain if you have never played ADC but ask yourself. When was the last time you saw an ADC on the enemy team and felt like they were a threat. Bro I DO play all 5 roles btw and I know when I am not playing ADC, even as a support I cant feel threatened by the ADC unless they are like 9 0 super fed. There is a fundemental problem here.

[@reaganjaegan]

This video feels so validating, I started off maining ADC but now I rarely enjoy playing that role because it feels so bad when you just get stomped into the ground all game. I wouldn't consider myself one of the crybabies but, I totally get it.

[@williammell845]

I think with the way the balance of the game is being shifted Marksmen should be going mid-lane as it's the shortest and safest lane, and Mages should be going bottom lane to out clear, out push, and outdamage the enemy bot-lanes. The terrible fragility of marksmen is mitigated by being in the shortest lane, and only having 1 laner to focus them down. But they do need to become more proactive with wards. And Mages in the bottom lane are able to clear waves and farm in the long bottom lane with no worries, and tend to have AOE for the 2v2 and 3v3 fights that break out all the time in bottom lane.

[@thekirbycrafter7229]

Huh....you know, you may be on to something, especially considering the metas where marksmen went mid and mages went bot.

[@Lukashoffmann94]

Main problem with that idea is midlane being easier to reach for the enemy jungler and the general lack of survival skills on adcs. You already see trist and ez being played mid, but you can’t do that with an Ashe and not expect to be ganked 24/7.

[@einjharrelraca]

it wont happen. every single time an adc has left botlane for any kind of consistant preformance without riot EXPRESS permission, riot has gutted them so far into the fucking dirt its not even funny. ezreal going jungle caused riot to nerf him so hard his adc winrate went from 48% to 41% in the botlane over fucking night, and ezreal isnt even the only or the worst example of this.

[@Ratty524]

I used to main bot lane for a period but what got me to quit was the realization that I had to work way harder to do the same things nearly every other class of champion does in the game and even if I performed well, farmed efficiently, I could never do enough damage by mid game compared to some fed bruiser on top lane or a jungler who got diffed. The games overall feature creep kind of destroyed what little agency the role had.

[@FutayuriShironeko]

Bottom as a role isnt one sided as just adc, as Umayan showed to the world in 2019, but most bot lane players are hyper one dimentional with all the same attitude of Umayan when they are less than 30% of who he used to be.

[@TealRubyy]

A lot of ADC's role in the game got distributed to the other lanes. The big one is damage. Damage creep is everywhere. Then there's pushing turrets and getting objectives. Sure, taking objectives, ADCs are still useful, but something is inherently wrong when a Ziggs or an Azir downs towers equally fast or faster than ADCs. The power of an ADC got diluted to the point where they are glorified cannon minions. Keep ADC alive to push turrets and objective. If it dies, no problem, the enemy wasted resources to do so, thus Mid, Top, and Jungle will just clean up the fight. When all you have going for your role is damage, what happen when you are no longer needed?

[@NoFatVampires]

Big part is also that it used to be by far the most important role. Only person who could do any real damage to towers or epic monsters

[@orendamusic7577]

It’s crazy that ad is a role that can wind up doing less than 10k dmg in a game just because a different guy (sup) runs it down I only play it duo with comms at this point

[@chiyue5676]

facts 7/10 games adc lowest dmg on the team

[@einjharrelraca]

@@chiyue5676 that because adcs are a dps class in a game where everyone is dying to a wet fart. Yay jinx has a dps of 900 so she takes 3.2s to kill the 3k hp twitch talon has a burst of 4.7k and thus kills the twitch in an instant like, sure cool. adcs have the highest dps in a game where fights only last for 3 seconds. Well, other than for our fucking bruiser overlords. they are still fighting after we all spawn from the last teamfight where they both 1v4ed both teams while being 3/12.

[@marvinbange1216]

This pretty much summs up why i stopped playing adc years ago, despite it being my favorite role in concept and houses most of my favorite champs. To much headache and frustration for little to reward. Its like you said every role progressed into the modern league, while botlane is still stuck in 2014.

[@Static2332]

As one team starts pull ahead or gain prio they will pressure to bot lane. This is to shutdown two players, including the one dimensional dmg role, and stack Dragons wincon. While all that excess pressure is bot the losing team will OFTEN enjoy uncontested farm, xp, tower plates and topside objectives. Simply put it's SELFISH. They choose to get themselves stronger while their lane opponent snowballs bot. Bot becomes a pressure exhaust valve and people think they caught up or got ahead because they played well. Then flame the adc for doing poorly. So the teams SACRIFICIAL PAWN complains the most. SHOCKER.

[@Jelliesuu]

as a new player who has been playing adc, im playing 1v4 every game botlane against enemy supp,adc,my supp and my will to live

[@galactick3816]

If riot wants dedicated "Damage" role, they should honestly make sure that the teams really feel when they don't have that person with them. Give assasins long CDs even in the game so that they can't one shot a person blink away and then instantly one shot another person, burst mages shouldn't be dropping nukes every 2-3 seconds, battle mages shouldn't have the same uptime/sustain as marksmen since they get more safety. Skirmishers/divers should have to be forced to decide between being able to blow up one person or be able to survive more than ten seconds. Yone should be deleted from the game. Tanks also suffered from the increase in carry champs since late game tanks usually only had to worry about 1, max 2 sources of DPS, not 4 and had to get their own DMG buffed to compensate. I feel that if by 25 minutes the ADC doesn't have half of the team's DMG on average (yes, there will be outliers with someone getting insanely fed) then the game is unbalanced, and the fix isn't to increase the ADC's DMG

[@EtherealRune]

Great video, couldn't agree more. Even as support I don't take my "role" too serious anymore because if my ADC is not doing so hot but another lane does, I just abandon my lane and help out somewhere else because my chance of winning simply is higher that way. ADCs are not the main damage roles anymore and in certain circumstances they get eliminated by a 6/13 Talon anyways, even if they are ahead; making any advantage absolute void.

[@IanRoyFCabel]

Why my ADC never takes Lantern 💀

[@LordGhostTurkey]

I feel this on a spiritual level.

[@TheSlayer117]

Tbf, Ive seen many thresh put their lanterns in very awkward positions that could get the adc cc'ed/killed. And a while back, on rare instances you couldnt even click the fucking thing

[@imaginefinding]

I been playing the lol mobile and there's a button that you can press to auto take lantern, that felt so wrong​@@TheSlayer117

[@banyani4048]

@@TheSlayer117 Not being able to click the lantern and it just straight up not working honestly has almost gotten me killed sometimes

[@The_White]

I often don't take the lantern. Not because I don't want to, but because the enemy support, ADC or even a minion body blocks it so it's impossible to click on it.

[@juxtiicc]

No, yeah, I main Zeri ADC and I've literally had a Pyke flame me for dying when the only times I died were when he literally pulled the enemy towards me when I would try to escape. Like????? Why would you pull the enemy towards the ADC on 10 or less hp?????? Are you insane????? It's so fucked, man, you have to learn how to carry without any help because you genuinely never know when you're going to get a team that gives a shit about you.

[@ridero4812]

I think main character syndrome is really not only an ADC problem. Practically every role has "carry" champions nowdays, people who want to play for their team are the minority, everyone wants to do damage and everyone wants to feel like they can 1v9 the enemy team. But its also because despite league being a team game at its core, nobody feels like they can trust their team.

[@Caesar-LXIX]

Adc main since season 4, since season 9 I started playing with no chat, have music all game, expect to receive 0 help from jungle and support and expect enemy support to be keria and his jungle is prime canyon. Helped a lot

[@jole5468]

ok this is true, but we can also agree that there are way too many supports who are just trolls who want to ruin the game for the adc right?

[@ninjixu5082]

As a mid support player, I’ve seen too adcs walk up into 2v1s when I go place a ward and then complain about support diff rather than positioning better

[@LordGhostTurkey]

We don't claim them as supports. A real support would endure the suffering of living in the fed ADCs shadow.

[@jordipernillo3026]

Nice try deflecting blame. Own up to your bullshit

[@ThePaceMaker127]

We cannot agree to blame shifting :)

[@JustAViewer44]

Not really, not a real main support. It's always the adc that steals jg or tries to splitpush in top when things go south. Always.

[@tylerhymel300]

I kind of get it when the Adc is doing their best and getting flamed as their yone support runs it down and ints but somehow its the adcs fault as well.

[@DyrianLightbringer]

What's really terrible is solo queue. Bot lane is the only one that is shared. If you're in solo, you're paired with someone you've probably never played with before. You have no idea how they play, if they like to go all-in, poke, play defensive, or what. Plus, it's human nature not to see our own faults. If the ADC is killed, it's the support's fault. If bot lane is falling behind, why didn't jungle gank? When you're top or mid, you're in lane alone, you expect to fight alone, you don't rely on anyone else, so when you fall behind, it's your fault. If the enemy jungler ganks you, it's you who didn't have vision or played too far up. In bot lane, it's easy to blame your partner. What's worse is that people who play ADC main might not understand jungling, so if they fall behind, they start blaming jungle for never ganking the lane, but a good jungler knows you play around your winning lanes, not your losing lanes. If you gank a losing lane, you're more likely to feed an already fed opponent, but if you gank a winning lane, you push your ally's advantage and take the tower faster, or kill the lane opponent, freeing up that ally to help you get an objective. Then you end up with an ADC player whining the entire game about not getting any help in lane. As Vars pointed out, an ADC who falls behind in damage really doesn't have any other job to do. However, there are two people in the bot lane, and if the bot lane is losing, that doesn't really impact the support. Support can still do their job in the mid to late game by supporting the players who aren't behind, so supports often aren't as toxic as ADCs.

[@hugonamur4013]

But that is specifically the point, and what he pointed out! As a support, you can trash your lane and then still roam and be useful. As a jungler, you can be trash too and still be required for your smite, but as an adc, if you trash your lane you're done, if the jungler ganks lvl 3 and suicides on their botlane because they have no insight in wave management and pressure, or the cd's of his teammates, they effectively make their adc useless unless the latter manages to play much better than his equal rank lane role opponent AND their supp and jungler to come out on top of the laning phase. Well, that's if the mid doesn't wander down with a 2 lvl lead and more mobility than a cracked up cat. The man is right to say that, while it does not justify a permanently whining behaviour, there are undeniable reasons as to why it exists.

[@DyrianLightbringer]

@@hugonamur4013 yes. The point of my comment was to highlight a couple of details around adc in solo queue that contribute to the overall cause that Vars didn't mention.

[@433evilLr]

Bot lane problems : The support offently can't match with the ADC. Supports nowadays: Senna,Ashe , Yummi , shaco . All of them are useless. People who play support doesn't realise that ADC need space for farming, tank for sustain the lane. Almost every support doesn't know that the red wards are important for dewarding. Also need a wards for anti gank and wards in the dragon pit . Second problem are the junglers . So they don't gank bot lane for take early dragon which is advantage in someways . They do drake first then they gank ,90% of the games doesn't work like that . ADC suffers whey they are 4vs2 and the team is sleeping and doesn't care about the lane. Yes for anyone who ask IM ADC I love that role . Yes we cry a lot but don't forget we can carry late game if u take care for us ❤.

[@Blu_Moon_Owl]

I “main” jungle but I also play a lot of ADC and Mid. I like playing ADC because being able to land my skill shots, get kills, and work along with my support feels great. The main problem I tend to see is even though in bot is 2v2, it’s really 1v3 or 1v4. Your support can help with all they have but it won’t matter when the enemy Tank or assassin ignores it just to get you and their team back them up for the kill. That puts you behind and give them an opportunity to get a tower, a Drake or roam to another lane.

[@ToasteBlade]

I was an adc main for years when I started playing in S3, until one game completely broke me. I was jinx with a Leona support. All game I was being flamed for being caught out and useless. But the thing was, no one would ever peel from me. Even the enemy team pointed this out. I strictly remember being run down by an enemy team mate and my Leona just walking past me then flaming me in all chat for dying so far away from the fight. The enemy team defended me, pointing out that my entire team was literally letting them walk up to me with no resistance the entire game and that I was positioning fine. Just no one was helping me. I stopped playing ADC after that game and moved to support and jungle to make sure no one else had to deal with that.

[@mastercalabaster9824]

you are a hero. I experience this a lot. Supports just don't seem to give a shit. I mean, obviously they just misplay all the time but the way it feels is "you don't give a shit" To me it feels insulting.

[@JunkSync]

>Be me, a tank player. >give my life to let the adc survive various times through the game so he can carry/escape >adc trash talks me for dying too many times >me now, going ap support next game.

[@WhenYouGoMadd]

I think this is a problem exclusive to NA. The NA meta has shifted to a completely different type of game. Which is one of the main reasons NA never wins tournaments. This combined with a Role that is all about math and mechanics that struggles to function on it's own leads to a lot of problems. The Bottom role was designed to be reliant on it's team, but when the team abandons their Bottom player. And goes against the meta it can lead to a lot of animosity.

[@Twitch-oq3ir]

Reading the 14.2 patchnotes "What’s more, unorthodox lane opponents, such as mages in Bot Lane, tend to throw players off, leading to non-optimal shard selections that contribute to strong statistical performances on these mages (despite not actually being as powerful as stats would suggest)." was the biggest cope i have ever read in my life. they are basicly saying that mages have high wr bot because of the fking shards. Yea totally not because they spike at 1 item and can take over the game while the enemy adc needs at bare minimum 3 items unless he plays lethality which is also completely broken. With the logic of Riot these mages should be weaker bot now? Well look at the 5 highest winrate botlaners: Senna(crit,lethality), Seraphine(Mage/Support), Twisted Fate (anything ig?), Swain(Mage) and Nilah(crit,lethality) even Vayne on the 6th spot i have never seen go onhit, its always Crit lethality. I agree with the main point of the video but also have to add because of that you are obviously reliant on the support and jungle position doing well and if the enemy adc gets handfed and you dont, you will never do what your role is supposed to. You are so far behind that you cant 1v1 anyone on the map not even the enemy enchanter, your damage in squirmishes is irrelevant so you either farm up or flip the game and hope you get the lasthits in the fights with your very low damage. You decide to go side and farm up? Have fun only pushing 1 wave because you cant leave your turret since your degen supp didnt ward anything on your side of the map. i also agree with the "its always your fault" how many times did i get reported when my support literally trolled me and i tried to play the game. Sometimes i find adc also relaxing, since you only have 1 real choice, you dont have to do anything, if you get behind in early put some relaxing music on and go full brain afk. If i want elo i play support, if i want funi play adc(not saying that i will have fun). Tbh i rarely play adc below Master nowadays because you will get trolled significantly more in Diamond and below.