Why Some Rapiers are "Too" Flexible... (Are They?)

[@CountRazladov]

Love the armory wall. Really adds to the atmosphere, and there's just something inherently nice about seeing you just pick up any piece of your collection you want to show from it. Keep up the good work, been here for 10 years and loved every second of your content.

[@gavinwelch9110]

1:09 Shenanigans aside, that ring thrust was amazing 😂

[@hangry3102]

1:01

[@jaxirraywhisper741]

I wonder how many tries it took him to film.

[@RockingRavine]

You can definetely tell Skall has been upping his game lately. Your videos are getting better every time, man.

[@Skallagrim]

Well, the views are getting fewer and the ad revenue lower, so the only thing I can do is try to make better videos.

[@RockingRavine]

@@Skallagrim While we as viewers can't do much about the algorithm and stuff like that, rest assured we'll still be supporting you any way we can. I'll try to comment in most of your future uploads. Might not be much, but it's the way I can help right now. Anyways, your hard work will pay off. (:

[@lscibor]

Dunno how it works that some fascinating stuff has like 800 views, while some random crap has 800k. Despite the popularity of fantasy, GoT, RPGs, and all that stuff, the topic is still relatively niche, I would guess.

[@Skallagrim]

@@RockingRavine Thank you.

[@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369]

I sure do love engaging on this video@@RockingRavine

[@ObeliskEye]

damn, the ring stab shot looked awesome

[@irrelevantfish1978]

Contrary to what you might think, steel's stiffness (ie, how much it flexes with a specific amount of force) is basically unaffected by heat treatment. I think what you're mistaking for stiffness is actually the yield point (ie, how much it can flex before it doesn't spring back to true), which is quite different. However, you _can_ make rapiers stiffer without adding weight, changing the mass distribution, or even reducing the true edge's cutting capacity. How? By reducing profile taper, increasing distal taper, and making some/all of its length single-edged. You see, thickness has _way_ more effect on stiffness than width. All other things being equal, a blade that's twice as wide will be roughly twice as stiff, while a blade that's twice as _thick_ will be roughly _eight times_ as stiff. Thus, making the blade narrower and thicker will make it stiffer without increasing the weight (hence, the spike-like "blades" of pure thrusting swords like the estoc). However, if you make a sword narrower and thicker but keep the same cross-section, you also increase the edge angle, and that kills the blade's ability to cut. However, a single-edged sword can have a more acute edge angle than a double-edged sword of the same width (hence the dominance of single-edged blades on cut-centric swords). Thus, going with a blunt spine will allow a cross-section that's stiffer while being equally sharp and agile. In other words, you want a rapier that's a bit more like a 19th-century military sword. It's not an accident that when the scientific method and sword combat collided, almost 100% of blades were backswords with little/no profile taper.

[@benjaminabbott4705]

Are there any examples of single-edged rapiers? It makes me wonder how Guillaume Marey-Monge would have designed a rapier.

[@irrelevantfish1978]

@@benjaminabbott4705 Not sure if there were any single-edged rapiers, but I think the HEMA Misfits article on the Marey saber gives enough information to make a pretty good guess as to what a Marey rapier would've looked like, and is also a really interesting read with a lot of fascinating pictures of the remarkable sword Marey-Monge designed. First, I don't think there's any doubt that a "Marey rapier" would be a backsword with a partially sharpened false edge, just as I described, and it's safe to assume that it would share many characteristics with his saber, most notably its fullered spine and asymmetric "fullered" handguard. Also, it would likely have the "Z-shaped point" (ie, offset fullers that run off the end of the sword rather than terminating, creating a cross-section that kind of zig-zags), as that would make for a significantly lighter, nimbler tip.

[@DamienHanma]

9:19 estoc! He mentioned MY FAVORITE

[@twinarcher8123]

Estoc bestoc

[@DamienHanma]

@@twinarcher8123 yes! thrust till they bust

[@Wyrsa]

As someone who trains rapier (Giganti, Cappoferro, and Fabrics) in my experience the floppiness when you land a thrust isn't the issue it's in trying to gain leverage over your opponents sword. These edges aren't sharp so they aren't going to bite, which then allows for your opponent to slide onto the flat of your blade and bend it out of the way. That's just one example of course.

[@Benjanuva]

As someone just starting Giganti, would this be why he says to keep the edge toward your opponent's blade? He mentions that a lot in the disengage.

[@Wyrsa]

@@Benjanuva yes indeed that's correct, but again without the sharp edge to bite, the swords slide in funny ways. The stiffer the blade the less this lack of bite or excess sliding matters and structure becomes the deciding factor

[@Groddon]

Ring challenge into ring sponsorship/advertizing: nice combo, 9/10.

[@thepacific2933]

stay thrusty folks

[@codyclick190]

The wall is looking great, Skall! I really liked the "allocate points" analogy here.

[@jeffgoode9865]

"stay thrusty" is an underrated gem.

[@justmutantjed]

OK but for real, I did actually jump when you did that pommel-strike at 10:16 . Startled the heck outta me.

[@fuferito]

You can't go wrong with a Monty Python-inspired intro.

[@paleoph6168]

*"Dirty Monty" Python

[@trumpetwizard7250]

It's Dirty Harry

[@nahuelmat]

It's Dirty Harry not Python

[@st0rmrider]

What about the sudden ending?

[@fuferito]

@@st0rmrider, Haven't you seen _The Holy Grail?_

[@argentandroid5732]

I used to have a rapier like this. The people I fenced with it complained about it all the time. They said it was like fighting a rubber sword. Lol 😂

[@romms8937]

I love that your content has not changed a bit over the years not matter how big you get and how you keep the right mix of humor to serious discussion. It's nice to get goo info and not feel like I'm just hearing someone read a wiki page.

[@b.h.abbott-motley2427]

We don't know for sure, but I suspect George Silver's "short sword" was similar to the LK Chen Saxony, but with a basket hilt & somewhat lighter blade. For a tall man, Silver specified a blade length of 39-40 inches, which matches the Saxony. Silver complained that many long rapiers were too heavy & described his short sword as "light" repeatedly. He also wrote to use in a thumb-up sabre-type grip for some action, which gets difficult with heavier swords. There are extant British basket-hilted swords with blades in the range Silver recommended that weigh around 1.2kg.

[@Benjanuva]

Funny. I'm a shorter man (5'4") and practice with a 42" rapier. That reach advantage is no joke.

[@benjaminabbott4705]

@@Benjanuva That's close to what some rapier masters, such as a Ridolfo Capo Ferro, recommended: that the sword overall should come from the ground to just under the armpit. Girard Thibault criticized this length as excessive & instead wrote that the cross should reach the navel. Rob Childs, one of the best rapier fencers alive, surprisingly recommends almost exactly the same blade length as Silver did: half one's height plus three inches.

[@andyedwards9222]

Silver advocated a sword length so that you could move your sword point behind an out reached parry dagger. To long and you had to move around your own blade.

[@andyedwards9222]

Excellent video, good to see you're confident enough to review and change your own ideas and thoughts if necessary.

[@JUDE-fn3ee]

Love the outtakes, let the shenanigans flow!

[@LuxisAlukard]

Nice intro, great video, fenomenal background (weapons wall), geniuos ad transition and fun outtakes!

[@RyanCook-zc9iw]

Good video skall. It's cool being able to see your whole armory standing guard behind you.

[@draugr905]

I still think for me the sidesword is still what works I like that well-rounded approach

[@Dir_Grobbman]

same, i love the munich town guard sword, it does everything.

[@pandorasboxofcatvideos5892]

Loved this video. also now curious about estocs

[@pedrogaiao8527]

They are among the stiff-est of ALL Swords I know. The ridge/Square/triangular section is awesome

[@thanatosdraco0000]

"Stay Thrusty" - potential merch idea? XD

[@CreepyMF]

Id buy that :D

[@weonconpatasbreadcake6494]

The stay thrusty at the end. simply fantastic

[@dylanboczar999]

Loved the outtakes tbh. Very fun (and had me sticking around to the very end!)

[@Flamewolf14]

I really liked the description of thinking of making swords as like putting points into certain skills based on the amount of weight or metal you have, thrusting, cutting, point of balance/ liveliness, hand protection and idk if there were more but I think there is potential for that being used for crafting in a video game. I certainly would like to try my hand at making a system like that but would appreciate seeing it tried at all

[@talonhammer]

I tend to watch any video about rapiers you post, Skall. I want to learn all there is to know about this type of blade 👀

[@kingof-bunz6506]

I wonder if a pipe back design would be an effective solution to this issue you’d sacrifice a back edge but you can always add a false edge to the tip and you’d have a rod running up the back which would certainly add to the stiffness

[@StarshadowMelody]

"It's a sharpened piece of rebar. I don't know what else you want me to say, you seem proficient enough with it already."

[@Dojibu]

Gotta say, that transition from intro into the sponsor talk was pretty smooth. Not something one sees too much in ways that work well too terribly often. Great job!

[@adamstanisaw2892]

Great vid Skall, stay thrusty.

[@James-id7ok]

That will be my motto for work tomorrow ‘stay thrusty’ 😁

[@frankmg4250]

if u put a laser point to the hilt, facing foward? it will be easier to trust in the opponent, in specific points?

[@mikoajpietrych6168]

better yet you could blind opponent that way

[@kamchatmonk]

And a scope. And a flashlight. And a tactical handle. And a grenade launcher. And camo paint job.

[@martins.4240]

@@kamchatmonk Don't forget the bipod for extra accuracy.

[@Balanceofbalanceofmind]

Love your creativity man. Love how you put the KZbin algorithm monster at the beginning. Was just gonna leave a like like I usually do but instead wanted to leave a comment after the correlation of likes being like cudgels, spears being comments and axe's being shares. Lol. None of my friends really into this stuff which sucks but if I had people that were I'd def send it and swing an axe at the monster but if I can't do that I might as well take a stab at leaving a comment, yeah? Cudgels are cool too tho at the end of the day... lol... it's just for the level of effort and care you put into your videos, I wanna offer more than just a swing of a cudgel... lol. Keep it up man. You're doing great. The way you structure your videos and just the way you carry yourself in general is genuinely helpful and inspiring to me as a young man. Wanted to just let you that. Thank you for sharing yourself with us... You're doing more than you realize... and I couldn't be more thankful haha. Keep it up... You're doing great...

[@agish3169]

I love the wall, great video man!

[@bapabs]

Lord algorithm, may you bless this man.

[@Braun_98]

Been loving the videos lately Skall!

[@bsanchezzz3861]

You can genuinely tell the passion that someone has for something based on how they speak. Your videos are great, your love for the topics you talk about, the information you give, the entertainment and honesty of your videos, I love it all. Thanks for making theses videos.

[@michaelimhof4212]

You could actually do quite a lot with heat treatment or the right choice of steel (nowadays, anyway). But none of that would really improve things. What you want most is a blade that doesn't break, and springs back to its original shape after bending (like yours all did), because if there's permanent damage, you're out of the fight. By making it stiffer, you would take away from this, either causing it to deform plastically (permanently) more easily, or to break. So, it's best to just accept the floppiness, or choose a different blade type that isn't too bendy.

[@kyuken893]

You've been doing well with the videos lately.

[@Skallagrim]

Thanks. I'm satisfied with the quality, but apparently the algorithm is not.

[@caelaxaeandzyllynn]

I always love the out takes

[@chricre]

Nice call out at the end. Loved this video. I prefer my rapier stiff with some flexibility. There are some rings which might not be as easy to get through, and some which move around erratically. Overall, when collecting rings, I prefer not to be as fast as a certain hedgehog. I prefer a moderately agile thrusting tip to my rapier. I would stop here even though I have the energy to continue. 😂

[@joshuaward2106]

Love the vids my man and have for a long time now. Commenting to help you out with the algorithm

[@raphlvlogs271]

Rapier blades were probably found on non European swords as well since in the early modern era Germany manufactured a lot of sword blades which were often exported and sold overseas then hilted locally

[@lscibor]

Germans (and not only Germans, though they had by far most potent industry), were exporting blades to their customers expectations, though, to be hilted in local fashion, as you mentioned. So mostly XIIIa - like (even into 18th century) or similar, blades for claymores (both greatsword and backsword types) for Scottish, sabre blades to Poland, Balkans and entire Eastern Europe and Western Asia, tulwar blades to India, and so on. They mostly wouldn't export rapier blades to someone who had never used or hilted a rapier.

[@atom8248]

@@lsciborThere's quite a few surviving rapier blades in india, hilted as pata (gauntlet sword) sometimes long katar or on tulwar hilts.

[@sharpestbulb]

"Stay thrusty, San Diego. I'm Skal Burgundy"

[@Loki_Firegod]

Very good video, made me laugh as well as learn a bit (or rather, think about something I hadn't spent too much time on before). I would remind people that the flex of the rapier in the chainmail test video isn't really representative. In the time rapiers were around, hardly anybody wore chainmail. Moreover, in the context rapiers were used, you wouldn't typically wear any armor (unless very sneakily to get an advantage in a duel). So, when stabbing unarmored people, the flex would mostly be much less extreme (except when you hit bone point-on, and even so it should be less extreme). I personally think that some replica chainmail is quite hole-y, too. I know, it's 4-in-1 and many surviving examples and archaeological finds were too. But I'd like to see arrows and pointy sharp things (rapiers, daggers, swords, spears) tested against riveted mail that's 6-in-1 or even 8-in-1, and compare the finds. Usually, when arrows or other narrow things penetrate chainmail, it's because they go through a ring and force it open. But with a more dense weave, it should be much, much harder to get far enough in. I personally have no equipment to do such a test at the moment, but I intend to make a 6-in-1 mail shirt as soon as I can get the raw material. I know it'll be heavier (although using smaller rings allows for some weight reduction), but I think the additional protection will be well worth it.

[@kamilszadkowski8864]

You're on a roll with those videos lately Skall!

[@StarMystro]

God I love your humor Skall- the outtakes had me rolling! Interesting topic too- I always thought some rapiers looked way too floppy

[@BruceEEvans1]

I am an engineer. I know not to limit myself from crazy ideas when someone ELSE has to do it. How to make the rapier blade stiffer without dramatically increasing weight. You heard of pipe-backed blades. Howzabout a pipe-spined blade. Add a half-round raised beam running along each apex of a diamond cross section blade from the ricasso almost to the point. How would you make such a blade> I dunno. Remember, I don't have to do it.

[@BWinced]

Modern high carbon steel makes them springy. Toledo swordsmiths forge-welded iron strips around a softer steel core and then quenched and tempered the blade to make them stiffer. It would be cool if you could get a hold of a historical blade to compare.

[@xIxAmxKh2xI]

wowwwww, it took me this long to realize what's going on with the legendary beast of ahhhhh and the knights in the intro........

[@rougezero1317]

I really enjoyed this video. I would like to learn more about rapiers though. maybe in a more well rounded approach than focusing in a specific attribute.

[@andrekrzyzowiec4063]

also let us not forget that you actually don't need that much stabbing power at all, if the blade is rigid enough to penetrate clothing+flesh it is usualy enough for dueling every day carry weapon like that, you aren't likely to encounter significant armor with that weapon. You don't need to pierce all the way to the other side and having it more rigid when you lounge with the weight of your body can mean dreaking (or getting stuck) on hitting something hard, like the thick bone, piece of metal or hardwood like in buckler or partial armor.

[@lscibor]

Period manuals and treatises show total penetration of very thick, robust bones though, like the skull. Of course, there's always the question about just how accurate are they Even if author knew a lot about anatomy (obvious from the pictures) and probably a lot about dueling, he might have been, as always, exaggerating, due to rule of cool.

[@Bombingham]

How about a thin cylinder that gradually gets thinner and pointy? Only the last quarter or so would be sharp but it would be very stiff and still kinda light. Pretty much a metal spear at this point though lol

[@robertpatter5509]

You could make it more rigid. Use a thick triangular blade. Merge the triangular Smallsword blade, make it thicker and add the Rapier guard type. Plus the triangular blade doesn't cut. Its all thrust. Which means its rigidity is as good as it can get. All you need is a very sharp point. Sort of like the Cold Steel triangular Smallsword profile. Its much thicker than antiques.

[@gojilla3820]

I love when skall is loving a video

[@Laggerslam]

Continuing to be the best channel for information about HEMA weapons and more. Love to have you in my Repertoire as a reference for world building.

[@MrPlainsflyer]

"Well in all of the tavern drinking ibe forgotten myself so you have to ask yourself one question, do you feel lucky???"

[@엘제-k9u]

Estoc has a special place in my heart. It's basically a pointy metal stick, chunky and stiff. But it never bends, and since bendable blades seemed "weak" in my eyes, it's almost always my weapon of choice when creating OCs for worldbuilding and stuff. Rapiers are good, of course, but it's not really for me.

[@CMBlessing81]

Excellent video. Loved the outtakes!

[@МихаилБатькович-м2ь]

To develop this topic, you could check difference between damage to flesh between stiff and floppy rapiers. Besides, before your videos about rapiers (this and previous) I kind of... Didn't treat them like a serious weapon. Now I do understand why they are such as they are. Thnx for your videos, besides. I don't know wether I will need all that information, but it is very interesting anyway)

[@zeroblade6599]

One thing I found in fencing (decades ago, so could have changed) with the very bendy blades is the ability to stab around the corner. One of my fencing classmates would regularly hit me around my gard and could even stab me in the back from the front. Probably a handy skill in duels with little to no armour

[@furiacabocla2furiacabocla589]

Rapier needs good Rapierist to work. There is the blade and the warrior that make it mortal and fearable.

[@zedusan2141]

There are 3 letters here saving this entire comment

[@matthewbentley1311]

Great energy, love the passion and the quality it brings

[@GameTimeWhy]

I love watching you have fun doing what you do

[@grantcox4764]

Love the dirty intro outtake...

[@weldroid]

Really informative and professional video, thank you!

[@efethecaptain6]

I guess against an afraid/hesitant opponent I'd pick the longer lighter agile rapier, I can basically keep him in the distance but against a brave and tough opponent, he can basically charge and even take a thrust into the body, but then would slice me up, so I'd need something more deadly per cut.

[@callmeent4789]

Loving your rapier era, I've been planning to make synthetic training rapier's and the insight is great

[@fabijanbaric9816]

I love how one video guided you to this one. Very fun.

[@daniegamin]

Excellent Ad segue Skall, that gets a like.

[@Einken]

Luckilly The Animator had a fatal heart attack and the Black beast of AAAAaaaaghhhh was contained to the introduction.....

[@thornescapes7707]

It's also worth mentioning that in many civilian contexts you aren't expecting to be dealing with mail. The floppier sword would probably slide through fabric like butter.

[@cocacola4blood365]

This is my favorite channel for sword and melee weapon education. It even surpasses Metatron and Shadiversity, no easy feat by far.

[@clothar23]

Meteoric Iron ring.hmmm...A sponsorship I like.

[@Justice-ian]

Cruciform or Trefoil - doesn't mean making it thicker; in fact, for a given amount of metal, it could be thinner and sharper for equal or greater stiffness. Harder to make, of course, but most changes are tradeoffs.

[@KaijuAlert]

Really good subject for a video, I always wondered about these bendy rapiers.

[@Markbell73]

Fresh and bendy!

[@grouchypseudopod354]

Stay thrusty my friends.

[@robertagu5533]

If some certain forging shows are to be a good standard for judgment... would say it's not a a how bendy those sorta rapiers are BUT how durable they are an can they easily bend back to the original meant shape while still being effective weapons. Think kinda prefer the Rapier that both cuts and stabs. Problem with the very highly bendable an stabby one is if you can block an/or parry something that basically ONLY is effective One way, especially, if it's really hard tmfor them to recover any an you negated any further means to fight you you've basically won.

[@jrockoclock7088]

I'd love for you to do a deeper dive into estocs, they seem super interesting

[@Andrew-qw1kq]

I can absolutely see where the trade off to get an extra 2" of reach with a sword that is still stiff enough to pierce a person's heart was worth the trade off in fencing/deuling even if it's not something you'd want for a battle weapon.

[@ShagShaggio]

You've got some good points. Cheers!

[@steelwasp9375]

An + cross-section reinforcement from base to middle of the blade doesn't seem to sacrifice all that much in terms of cutting performance, it's not like you're going to be chopping through things that low, and It will draw-cut just as well.

[@skyborne80]

If Skallagrim hit the bullseye in the ring challenge on the first take, I'm impressed 👍🏻

[@EnglishMemorial]

When I was a young man, I fenced a bit in college. I was not good, but some of the good foil guys, and maybe saber, could utilize the flexibility of their blades and "flick" the point. Easier to do in saber, certainly, with electronic scoring. Is there any historical treatise that would use this strategy, utilizing flexible blades like the ones mentioned here?

[@synthemagician4686]

Skall, thank you.

[@animistchannel]

After all those variable comparisons... I loved the jian. In theory I favor the messers, but these days my carpal tunnels disagree.

[@nazarnovitsky9868]

Thanks for the new video !

[@basilefff]

I mean, I personally think that if you're going all in on the thrust with such a disregard for the cut, might as well go with non flat blade. In one of the museums of Napoleonic era I saw almost exclusively blades for thrusting with sort of T shaped blade

[@Ry955r]

I am commenting to raise the rating of this video, I hope for your success in the future

[@Skallagrim]

I appreciate it.

[@scottbraun2457]

I'm curious about who the, "grumpy Englishman", was supposed to be..lol.

[@ramonvelasquez8431]

"Yeah, we're a serious channel here" Also Skall: "stiffness and thrusting ghe ghe ghe..." 😆🤣😂 Nice vid, man. Actually very informative!

[@BleedingBasco]

I wouldn't want the bendy blade inside me. It'd rip my insides as it flexes like that

[@solanumtinkr8280]

To keep the weight down on the Han Dynasty sword, could you add a modern alloy/composite light weight basket/dome for hand protection?

[@boaragile82]

As always, worth watching to the very end :))

[@ibrokemykeyboard]

wow i LOVE pointy metal bars

[@napalmholocaust9093]

I'd like to have a sword from a long blank that fillet knives are punched out of. Flex is an "issue" with blades cut from crosscut saws. I keep the original spring temper (I can't improve it) and grind them out. Another issue is that without a bolster, it can work the first pin loose from that much flex. I could probably make a sword if I found some saw blades not pitted. Have you guys ever seen the giant 1foot by 20 or 30 foot steel bandsaw blades? I can get them in whatever lengths I want for ten bucks a foot and they'll cut to order if I call ahead. I nearly had forgotten about them, I have a one foot chunk and they had 4 foot on a pallet in back. People use them for clock faces, paint them or whatever. I make blades, that's why I have it. My crazy barber had a belt sword. It was flexible enough to go into a sheath that went through his belt loops.

[@napalmholocaust9093]

My barber suddenly whipping that out and yelling mfkr at me was quite a surprise. He pulled it out so fast (I wasn't paying attention initially) it was like it magically appeared between us. It was 💩 tho, way too thin and flexible to be a useful blade.

[@generalsci3831]

Informative and persuasive. Loved the video. :)

[@bvoyelr]

I wonder how many takes that "ring challenge" scene took before you hit the mark.

[@Skallagrim]

It was the 4th. :)

[@AndSendMe]

The standard of judgment is historical weapons, end of story. Replica makers don't always follow the refined blade design of originals. Some of course have never even seen one.

[@bIackfeather]

Actually the flexibility might actually be a boon in the case of going against chain mail armour. The floppiness might save the blade from a hit that would chip it, by instead just deflecting away. I'm not anyone with any particular sword knowledge though.