Why Sonic's "Two Worlds" Theory Doesn't Make Sense (Why Do We Even Care)

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

If you want another video just like this one, check out David's theory on Sonic Forces not being canon (that we don't condone): kzbin.info/www/bejne/hX3cY6p6aptpoaM

[@lukaschris9333]

instablaster...

[@ItsMichaelReid]

How hard is it to have a world where there’s anamorphic creatures and humans living together ala “Who Framed Roger Rabbit?” And Looney Tunes? Sooooo much cleaner.

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

Right? If they played it straight (like they've done in some games), you don't really question it. Station Square, Green Hill, humans, and animals can all happily coexist, they just have to keep their chin up while doing so.

[@carterh914]

@@FindTheComputerRoom i agree.

[@andresmarrero8666]

@@FindTheComputerRoom all you need to do there is fix the art style so it looks like they are from the same reality.

[@calumbishop7082]

Andres Marrero That’s what Unleashed did.

[@caiosilva2167]

Roger Rabbit and Looney Tunes are very comedy focused and don't take themselves serious as Sonic games, if humans and anthros are to coexist an explanation should exist, from what i remember the Archie Comics actually handled that

[@TheAwesomeHyperon]

Remember, the inhabitants aren’t Mobians, they are “Sonic’s Worldians”.

[@GoldStorm07]

South Islanders

[@rynobehnke8289]

@@GoldStorm07 Na didn't you play Forces South Island is cancelt its now all Green Hill (Asia size edition)

[@MegaGeek-gr6ts]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@Treesarewoke]

Correct! Mobius is not and never was cannon

[@xenencross1717]

They are called Freedomians.

[@BrokenAce1295]

I just think the Sonic series (in terms of video games) should take place on planet Earth and leave it at that. The idea of 2 worlds is just confusing when there's already the existence of the Sol Dimension (Blaze) and the distant future (Silver) and Sonic games up to Unleashed already took place on planet Earth, to begin with. Sonic Team will just be juggling so many different worlds and universes to the point of it being a clusterfuck. The 2 worlds idea definitely works well with the Sonic Movie at least because of the usage of warp rings. It makes perfect sense when explained that way.

[@MarioSonicHQ]

All along, the song “His World” was alluding to this.

[@MrAppleSalad]

"Penders has admitted that's what he tried to do" "𝐏𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫𝐬 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐭𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐨 𝐝𝐨 𝐦𝐚𝐧𝐲 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬."

[@PipeGuy64Bit]

I never really gave much thought into this issue until the whole "another dimension" line from Sonic Forces. Honestly the whole confusion and inconsistency with this is something I'd completely buy given Sega's long history of incompetence in other more important ways.

[@lunakingsley.7247]

@UCli_7EEu3BREbWMDkmxHk8g we littarly see classic Sonic react to the phantom rube something that tails would know wouldn't happen with his sonic since they never saw the phantom rube that far in their past just like with in generations where they never went through those avents as their classic selves. This is so easy to understand that forces shouldn't have to hold your hands. I mean a bunch of fucking little kids figure this out but you dumbasses can't!?

[@LightChosenBlazer]

I find the idea of two worlds unnecessary but if every game started with Sonic dabbing through a portal, then I'd be down.

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

I agree.

[@CometX-ing]

So basically “Some western fans who like things one way get angry when it’s different and Sega’s with their incessant need to not make ANYONE angry, change it and only make things more complicated and annoying.”

[@littenfire3563]

I liked the adventure era. where cartoon animals and humans lived together and it was all one world

[@FlequilloSenpai]

@QuickThePorcupine But Sonic X is not canon

[@bowmaj8666]

That sums it up perfectly!

[@diegomedina9637]

Basically we should all blame that shitty gritty ass sonic cartoon from the 90s.

[@bowmaj8666]

@@diegomedina9637 Yeah, it is kind of a shame that the SATAM series was so popular that a lot of people who enjoyed that show now have a bit of a confused idea of what should and shouldn't be in anything Sonic related. I distinctly remember when Sonic Adventure and SA2 were still fairly new, there were people complaining about them and saying stuff like "Well this sucks! Who are all of these lame characters, where are the Freedom Fighters like Sally Acorn and Bunny Rabbot? Why is Sonic running around in a realistic looking city? He doesn't belong in places like that, he should be in places like Robotropolis and Knothole Village COS THAT'S MORE LIKE THE OLD GAMES! And what did they do to Robotnik? Robotnik doesn't look like that, he should have a pointy head, glowing red eyes and a metal arm JUST LIKE IN THE OLD GAMES!" I'm not kidding, a lot of people weren't judging those games on their own merits, they were just badmouthing it because it didn't match what they THOUGHT Sonic was all about, which was basically just the SATAM series. Some people just don't understand the idea of different continuities. It's why you still get people claiming that they should incorporate Sally into the games. But it's not as easy as people think. Personally, I think that ideas and characters from the SATAM series and the Archie Comics should remain their own thing, and the game's continuity needs to evolve with it's own ideas and concepts.

[@BonitoJoe111]

In SA, how did Angel Island get to the human world if it wasn't originally part of it? Gerald and Maria Robotnik are from earth. If they are Eggman's relatives, would't Eggman be from earth too? If not, how did Eggman get to Sonic's world? Why is there a Green Hill in the human world of SA2? Sonic Forces takes place in Sonic's world. G.U.N is from the human world. Who are Shadow, Rouge and Omega working for at that point? I hope one day they just drop the 2 worlds idea, and stick to it being one like what they originally planned.

[@ItsMichaelReid]

SamuraiJo1 Angel Island is the portal. *BOOM* done.

[@ThatGuy-tc6uv]

To make things even weirder, Sonic X (or at least the american dub) implied that Eggman had no idea he was from earth until he found the files concerning the Ark Incident.

[@GoldStorm07]

@@ThatGuy-tc6uv Which would make it possible that one of the experiments about the ARK flung Eggman into Sonic's world.

[@tonyt1616]

THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING FORCES' RELATIONSHIP WITH "There was only one world." FORCES WAS PROBABLY THE MOST EXPLICIT IN DEBUNKING THIS NONSENSE.

[@bowmaj8666]

@@ItsMichaelReid What sense does that make? The humans in Sonic games are clearly familiar with anthropomorphic animals, so if this two worlds thing is true then it must mean animals are travelling through the portal on a pretty regular basis! If it's Angel Island then how is Knuckles ok with all of these animals trespassing on his sacred home just so they can enter the human world so they can visit Twinkle Park in Station Square for a day, or something? And honestly ask yourself, how does this bonkers explanation make more logical sense than it just all taking place on a fantasy world where humans and anthros coexist, like the games clearly imply?

[@milky243]

I don’t understand why it has to be complicated. It’s not questionable if they leave it alone but they have to bring it up. I always thought that from sonic 1 to 3 & knuckles had no humans cause it was in islands in the middle of no where. and then in adventure he finally meets humans after hitching a ride with tails.

[@justcallmekai1554]

Thats what I thought too. Like The classic games usually takes place on Islands so my though was they were far away from any human civilization. I dont know if they were to keep the worldbuilding consistent to this day I would say it makes the overrall world building more interesting

[@Squishito]

I mean there's full on cities in the backgrounds of many classic Sonic levels. Spring Yard, Starlight, Casino Night, Chemical Plant, these are all clearly modern and inhabited locations. And then in Adventure we find out who is inhabiting them, humans, and some animal people. Like Dragon Ball having mostly humans but some monster and animal people inhabiting the world, not an unheard of fictional concept, hell it's even fitting seeing as Sonic is heavily inspired by Dragon Ball. But Iizuka had to muddle it up with this unnecessary explanation. Hell, there's a bunch of obvious evidence to imply that Adventure 1 and maybe even 2 are set on West Side Island, the same place as shown in Sonic 2. There was no separation between the classic and adventure games locations, they were the same world, same could be said about all the later games. Newer Sonic games worlds are the same as the old ones but with more detailed art styles and lore. The two worlds shit was either made up by Iizuka last minute or was a translation error or something.

[@milky243]

@@Squishito I think it was a translation error, world in Japanese has many different translations, and can actually mean society. so he could have meant that there is a human society and animal society, which makes sense. but I could be pulling at straws here

[@Squishito]

@@milky243 That's what I thought must of happened too, but apparently others at Sega confirmed it and there was an official series bible confirming it or whatever. I swear whoever made this two worlds thing up had zero prior knowledge on Sonic because it literally makes no sense and directly contradicts like every games story. The pains of being a Sonic fan lol.

[@lpfan4491]

@@milky243 that is still bull unless the mean the nocturnisclan or something like that(and they clearly don't for...those reasons). There obviously are more mobians(the name is just the easiest to remember) than are shown in games, but there is no dang society to them, they are disconnected. Amy(8)and Sonic(around 11) were able to just travel around without issue in the classic days for example. And tails was 4 years old according to the timeline and was practically abandoned, only being made fun of by some randos. That stuff is just not a thing.

[@Comkill117]

My favorite part is how not 2 games ago, Classic Sonic was just Sonic from the past but now he’s from an alternate universe. Which makes so much sense considering how there’s direct continuity between the classics and basically everything up to Lost World, with the exception of 06 which had its events erased in that game. Considering how Unleashed and the Adventure games both have full on world maps and all, they could easily explain that all the anthropomorphic characters are from different continents or islands than say Station Square, or Spagonia. Hell Adventure 2’s stage select map even had South Island with Green Hill on it. But nah, TWO WORLDS! Just like the best Xbox 360 game.

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

advance 2 and rush also had similar world maps to adventure 2

[@yourehereforthatarentyou]

and advance 2's map had angel island on it, if im not mistaken but im pretty sure angel island moves around so i dont think that means that where it was on the advance 2 map is where it always floats, bc it was over the ocean in sonic 3k and over the mystic ruins in adventure 1

[@RevenTH]

I love this specific type of videos so much. Also more David!!

[@SmooviesTV]

David is a national treasure. -Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog: The Movie

[@regulator062]

Just... the separate worlds and dimensions idea needs to go. Sonic and friends are from earth, end of. That's what the games show and I don't care what anyone at Sonic Team says, that's the canon. The previous games show this very clearly, with humans and anthropomorphic animals inhabiting the same world. That's the way it's been since Sonic 1. If they want to establish a brand new continuity that's one thing, like the Sonic Movie and its idea of separate worlds for instance, then okay, but the mainline Sonic games are one world. As far as the Mobius thing, none of the games actually call the world that, but on the other hand we have games like SA2 that very clearly show levels and elements from earth such as San Francisco and a Space Shuttle, for instance. The truth is Sonic has always been set on earth but not strictly the earth as we know it, rather a surreal version of earth. No different than Gotham City in Batman, for instance. Sonic is and has always been a mixture of realism and surrealism, even from the very first concept arts for the original game, and I see no problem with that. The separate worlds idea, one for Sonic and one for regular old Earth, simply doesn't belong in the canon. And btw where the heck would this magical portal to take Sonic and co. from world to world even be and why hasn't it been mentioned a single time in any of the game stories so far, not even once? It honestly feels a little bit insulting this idea/"explanation" was ever brought up at all. I'm sure they didn't mean to insult their fans with it, but when it's so obviously contradictory to what happens in the games it doesn't feel good they thought that was good enough in the first place or that fans would just accept it. Btw this is a really good video/analysis. I also think the separate world idea was an overreaction from the Sonic 06 backlash.

[@astrotrain3332]

This is the correct answer.

[@jdawson7877]

@@astrotrain3332 the reason they made up that 2 world thing is so they don't to put humans in sonic games

[@astrotrain3332]

@@jdawson7877 well they already ruined that with Sonic Adventure showing us that humans and Sonic are in the same world. And hey cousin lol

[@jdawson7877]

@@astrotrain3332 yeah that really shows that they don't care about continuity

[@lpfan4491]

I have nothing against the diffrent dimensions because it is a timelinesplit and cannot work without it being one. The experiences of classic and modern sonic in the whitesoace-incident are fundamentally diffrent from each other. The real issue is that tails abd eggman just know it in forces instead of figuring it out later. Oh, also, they messed up. real big. Their idea was for classic Sonic to not get the same later history as modern, but...yeah. Not really, logically. chaos will still break out of the master emerald. Classic Eggman clearly doesn't know about Shadow, so that will also happen. The black arms will show up regardless. The Erazor-thing does not even have eggman present and...well, Sonic Shuffle kinda happens too, but I think nobody cares about that game. And Sonic will also still grow up to have green eyes, but that is the obvious thing.

[@NintendoLover2005]

Who's here after Tailstube deconfirmed the 2 worlds?

[@DontChuckles]

Lol thank goodness it was deconfirmed.

[@LiveHedgehog]

The games were relatively consistent up until Lost World really. That and Forces were batshit crazy for no real reason. I submit the motion to strike Sonic Lost World and Sonic Forces from the canon.

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

I will agree

[@Eminster]

Forces should be recton far up the ass

[@sonicfan2403]

That's because Izuka lost his sanity over the years!

[@Ronan34753]

I'd throw Colours in there as well, but I guess we could keep Colours' DS version in it's place...I'd be okay with that.

[@isaacplayer4268]

How does Lost World (or Colors for that matter) conflict with any prior canon? It's set in a self-contained environment where past events aren't relevant to the situation. Generations causes more canon strife.

[@chiharris2810]

Just watched Scourge's Act 2 video on it. And man it just seems like he misses the entire point of why people hate it. It shouldn't be out jobs to figure out what the heck is even canon anymore. Sonic Team brought the idea of it up and they have done absolutely nothing with it. Why should we, the fans, actually just blindly accept it because "whether you like it or not its canon."....even though it has never been mentioned in game in the slightest and hasn't even been mentioned in clear "Animal World" settings like IDW.

[@chiharris2810]

It just somewhat boggles me how he is using the "oh it was just your headcanons the whole time" argument to somewhat dodge it.

[@Naruku2121]

@@chiharris2810 I'm not too fond of it, but I don't think it's 'impossible'. If you take Sonic Forces Map it doesn't seem to geographically match the one from Unleashed at all. And Unleashed's map could actually be seen in it's entirety sense Shadow The Hedgehog, which show's some precedence, keeping that it is a Human focused setting. Then there's the cases of Two Ice Cap Zone from Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure. The whole issue with Angel Island or how Green Hill seems to be really close to City Sonic Escapes from in SA2 but be in a completely different geological location in Forces despite that. My guess there's really too options Sega really doesn't care enough and all these inconsistances really are just, "It's A Video Game" Or there is actually two worlds. Or rather 'parallel' worlds. This is all my theorizing, but it could be plausible and I think the Chaos Emeralds are the linch pin to all of this. It's not to say the characters have to use them to travel between the worlds or anything. But overall The Chaos Emeralds are so ingrained in the lore that multiple ancient civilzations from the Echindas of Knuckles People worshiped them and the Master Emerald, to the Gaia Temples in a mostly Human-esque world like Unleashed. It's not impossible that they could be partially responsible for the links between what we thought was simply one world or whatever when we know the Emeralds are infamous for their reality warping, space time manipulating powers. Not to mention in most cases they retreat to strange different realms or dimensions only to be retrieved through portal hoping in a lot of cases. The Chaos Emeralds or the Master Emerald could even explain away most of the anomalies in the above paragraph. Angel Island is the easiest it's the home of the Master Emerald and one of the housing areas of the Chaos Emeralds who knows maybe the Island 'Orbits' between realms peroidcally and can end up in the likes of the Mystic Ruins. Maybe there's some overlap between the two worlds in some way that could explain the multiple 'Green Hills' and Ice Caps as a strange phenonma through Chaos Control. Maybe parts of Each other's worlds show up in different places? Chaos Control has been shown to at leas be able to warp something as nearly the size of the moon and relocate it if you take the feat of moving the Ark as some form of precedence. While it doesn't flat out explain anything, it does give some plausibility that maybe time far before even Sonic's time these world's were interconnected through some means either through one of the actions of the ancient civilizations of the past or as a result of the reality warping prowess of the emeralds themselves by the virtue of their existence that could of bridged them together in some way. (Also by no means am I saying Sega had masterminded this lore of 2 worlds since the beginning. For all we know they could of tossed a dart and saw where it lands just if they actually thought it out then existing material may already support it. In which case they got lucky...)

[@chiharris2810]

@@Naruku2121 I see your point. Like, its not that I entirely hate the two worlds as a standalone concept. Heck it could have been interesting if done correctly. But the problem is...it isnt even there in the games. It feels like the two worlds is an overreaction to the hatred of the humans in the early 2000s and it just does not work with previous continuity. There is getting rid of something that doesn't work and then there is just appeasing those probably never cared for the series beyond Sonic 2 when they should just be focusing on making a good game. I hate the logic some present as "Your no fun if you aren't curious about the two worlds because of that."

[@chiharris2810]

Because yes. In a series with a blue talking hedgehog that can go at the speed of sound who hangs out with a mutant kitsune who can fly, along with an echidna with two spikes on each of his knuckles and can knock down walls, along with an egg shaped doctor who wants to take over the world and turn everyone into his slaves. I totally want to think about how these animal people go from their world to another even though it is never established, how Eggman even got there, and Sonic and friends even made to another world. How anyone gets there in the first place, how the Chaos Emeralds hop to each world at random and how apparently whole landmasses from each world can he transported into the other somehow. It was first revealed in an interview for Sonic Colors for christ sake, they had so many chances to finally establish it but they just don't. Generations was probably the perfect time to settle this but I guess not. ...Real nice theory though man, I actually wouldn't mind too much if the Emeralds were the cause of this primarily because they are one of the main reasons this doesn't make sense in the first place. If only ST actually did something with this.

[@Naruku2121]

@@chiharris2810 Yeah, I do believe it's some tacked on response from Sega. My theory was just a hypothetical way that it *could* work without being too out of left field for the series if they ever chose to explore it then the safest answer would be using the Chaos Emeralds as the usual go to reason.

[@gamejitzu]

Not to mention that Sonic was apparently born on Christmas Island. I don't think this was ever directly retconned, and it was referenced on the Sonic Twitter (along with some other Earth things). But Christmas Island is a real-world island. So is Christmas Island in Sonic's world instead? Or was Sonic even born in "Sonic's world"?

[@k.brooks9654]

TWO WORLDS IS NO MORE! :D

[@supasphoje]

Izuka once said during a Q and A that the reason the moon looks perfectly fine is because the side Eggman didn't destroyed is facing earth lol. Wonder if the devs for sonic team have communicated the idea of the series having two worlds to other developers/writers in the series and if it has been given any specific consideration during pre production of the games.

[@ThatGuy-tc6uv]

I may be wrong since I heard it second hand, but Ian Flynn supposedly discussed the "two worlds" thing a bit. Sonic X was also written with that in mind, as everyone could tell.

[@lpfan4491]

Sonic X did it poorly too. The only reason they gave for the characters having to return is that if the worlds are nor properly seperated, time as a concept would stop working and both dimensions would fall into an eternal timefreeze(for some reason). You know what they did tho? Eggman broke that by taking Shadow with him. So now what?

[@andrewweidner7740]

I just want continuity man...fun video btw!

[@GordieKat]

So I guess when the Time Eater brought Sonic to the future it split the timeline creating the "classic" dimension. As for the two worlds theory I can't reconcile it. Shadow makes it not work.

[@Putuk22]

Rouge's 6D chess is not something I thought I needed in my life.

[@werewook]

Lore and world buidling is the last thing on their minds lol. You can tell they don't care very much when nearly every game introduces some plothole, inconsistency or straight up retcon. Makes me wonder if every Sonic game is rushed and the plot is the last thing on their priority list.

[@bowmaj8666]

Well, remember what a lot of fans and critics say; the story to a Sonic game doesn't matter! And Sega have really taken that to heart giving us all the inconsistent plotlines and botched continuity they can manage! And if you disagree, and you think that world and lore building, and character development is important then..... tough titty I guess? Apparently our options aren't worth jack! Not to mention, ever since Teen Titans Go! became popular, many writers have decided that it's way easier to turn popular characters into flanderized tools, just running around going "HERPY DERP, AIN'T WE SILLY, KIDS?" than actually understanding why people like them so much and writing them well!

[@Squishito]

Plots were heavily focused on in the Adventure games, and to an extent the classic games as well. Sonic 3 had an unusual focus on creating a narrative, albeit a simple one, focusing on Knuckles becoming a good guy, and Eggman raising the Death Egg again. Those cutscenes and attention to a plot and continuity to drive the player were mostly unseen to that extent in similar games at the time, usually being no more simple as "save the princess or whatever". The Adventure stories then expanded on stuff hinted at in the Classic games Japanese instruction manuals, those being filled with cool lore and plot since the beginning. SA2's plot may even be all about hinting at Sonic's backstory, with SA1's plot expanding on Knuckles' origin and the long foreshadowed lost civilization centered around the emeralds which had been mentioned since Sonic 2, and the origins of Angel Island. They definitely used to care, in fact it seemed to be a significant priority for a while. Sonic Adventure 2 was designed with the narrative in mind first and the levels being made after to accommodate, with Heroes being made in the opposite order, which is easily noticeable. They really used to care an admirable amount, but after 06 went down in flames for a bunch of unrelated catastrophes during development, they played it super safe and backpedaled on story, thinking that any similarities to 06 meant doom. Even now, the effects of 06 are still noticeable, the stories now are complete shit, the writing worse than a show for toddlers, plot holes and contradictions as far as the eye can see. They try more and more to dumb down Sonic games to market to outside audiences nowadays, which is really disappointing. They have no faith in the true spirit of the series, frightened of failure, so they spend their time trying to make Sonic into something it's not to appease an audience that never liked or cared for the series and basically want another Mario clone. Hopefully one day they decide to make a Sonic game that actually captures the spirit of the series again, and try to take more than 3 seconds skimming a Wikipedia page for reference to write a story.

[@MrAppleSalad]

they should honestly just retcon everything from Colors - now, it's not like there has been any real story since then. Have Classic Sonic be Sonic's younger self and have there be 1 world. It does NOT need to be this complicated.

[@alfo2804]

They absolutely need to do this. This would not anger anyone at all, since it's not like anyone who likes any of the games in the 2010's actually gives a shit about story. Plus, retconning a game doesn't delete it from history - you can still play and enjoy the games, despite their non-canonical plots.

[@Axel_Does_Stuff]

I think they should pull a Crash 4, and have the problematic games (such as '06 and the 2010's games) take place in alternate dimesions. Speaking of alt. Dimensions: They *really* need to set the record straight on the Classic Sonic timeline. 'Cuz like, is Sonic 4 canon? Is Sonic Mania canon? How many Classic Sonics even are there?!

[@ivanelugo]

@@Axel_Does_Stuff maybe the Sonic 4 is part of the Mania Dimension

[@Axel_Does_Stuff]

@@ivanelugo I really don't want that to be the case. But I can't disprove it so... Yeah, that might be a possibility.

[@mc-ate-bit3814]

"Within 8 months gagman quickly took over the world": *Sethoroth Stabs Mario* Eggman only took over the Sonic's Worldians part of the world: *Sethoroth misses Mario by his shoulder*

[@Zejgar]

There is a block of Sonic games from SA1 to Shadow that tried its best to have a cohesive world, with the obvious exception of Heroes and with a surprising inclusion of Shuffle. You guys are right, it did all go haywire with '06. By the way, weren't there Advance and Rush games, most of which provide an in-game map of the world? That's a decent example of a parallel world happening before this mess, and barely anything was wrong with it. Probably because the portable and the console worlds remained separate.

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

We're kind of guilty of forgetting about the handheld games a lot, I'll admit.

[@sezunemizuhana3870]

Heroes' plot takes place on South Island, BOOM, done.

[@Scandal262]

I think i figured it out. The DC universe's earth has extra locations like Gotham and Metropolis which are stand-ins for real locations but do not replace them. The explanation they give is that the DC earth is actually larger than the real-life earth. Similar situation with Sonic. The Sonic earth is larger than the real earth but is much bigger to allow it to fit in places like Green Hill and such. The anthropromorphic animals usually tend to stick to their own cities like we see in Forces but are able to visit cities generally populated by humans such as Soleana whereas humans generally dont go to the Zones because they dont have powers like super speed and flight so they cant handle that shit. The words "earth" and "mobius" are basically interchangeable explaining why we hear both

[@Squishito]

Mobius was never canon or ever canonically mentioned. It was the fake American canons name for Sonic's planet in old media and the Archie comics, the real games only ever were set on Earth, even in the old games.

[@lpfan4491]

Except we know that the humans in the series can interact with the setpieces and survive. A random kid(I think) in 06 accidentially got themself stuck because they jumped ontop of a roof using a spring and we can see Maria in a flashback-level in Shadow the Hedgehog interact with boostpads installed in the ARK(for some reason).

[@GumshoeGamer]

Oooooh boy, what even is Sonic anymore

[@Eminster]

Fucked up that's what. IDK how Sega and Sonic team fuck him up so badly.

[@KanasanDX]

Honestly, I think the 2 Worlds idea and the whole, Classic Sonic being from a different dimension retcon, kinda makes sense. It would be better if it was just 1 World as that would make the continuity much cleaner and less complicated, but I think 2 Worlds, personally, is fine. The "human world" that Adventure 1 and 2 takes place in is supposed to be basically Earth. And on Earth in the real world there aren't really any talking hedgehogs (at least from my experience I've never met one). And it doesn't really hurt the canon to say that there can be crossover between the worlds. After all, Amy lives in Station Square and Eggman is literally human, yet he is shown to be in both worlds. Again, it would be much cleaner if it was all in one world, but I can see that Iizuka wants to make the human world seem as close to Earth as possible so that the more wacky adventures can take place in the animal world. Not to say wacky adventures can't take place in the human world (they literally go to space and fight a giant biolizard in Adventure 2) Having 2 Worlds also makes it much easier to explain where some of the wacky characters come from. As for Classic Sonic being a different dimension that makes sense too. Back in Adventure 1 there was a flashback of how Tails met Sonic, however the characters had their modern designs. I'm guessing that events in the classic games ALSO took place in the modern games IN ADDITION to everything we see from Adventure onwards. However, the biggest problem with this theory is, as you said in the video, Angel Island. If there are 2 Worlds and different dimensions, does that mean there are multiple versions of Angel Island. The best explanation would be that, just how the characters travel from world to world (maybe from the warp rings from Sonic 1), so can the Island. Honestly, the 2 Worlds idea is kinda dumb, but I kinda get it. But what do i know?

[@DanJilek]

What universe or world does waku waku sonic patrol car fall into?

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

Due to the implied police brutality, ours.

[@loziclec.1295]

Sonic Team: "The games take place on Earth." Japanese fans who watch Dragon Ball which is a series where the president of Earth is a talking dog: "Cool." Western non-fans: "What the fuck? That's so weird!"

[@Scandal262]

So basically Sonic X and the Sonic movie are the only ones that got this right? And I guess Archie to a certain extent?

[@theminecraft2516]

The movie did not do it well

[@bowmaj8666]

@@theminecraft2516 I'd say the movie did it better than Sonic X!

[@theminecraft2516]

Bowmaj 86 By using real continents and ruining all canon that was SA1,SA2, and Unleashed????

[@bowmaj8666]

@@theminecraft2516 I don't understand your comment.

[@theminecraft2516]

Bowmaj 86 In the Sonic games the planet doesn’t use real continents

[@666ZX]

They're still the same Sonic and they're from the same planet and that planet has always been Earth in the games, but Classic Sonic from Sonic Generations just split off into a different timeline so he's going to have different experiences than Modern Sonic now. It's diverging the timeline starting from post Sonic 3 & Knuckles era and pre Sonic Adventure era. Still the Multiverse timeline that they're going with will forever have plot holes because you could change the past in Sonic CD without splitting off into an alternate branching timeline and even Sonic The Hedgehog 1 to Sonic Lost World and Sonic Mania mostly worked as a consistent canon (be it still with a bunch of potholes and outliers) but Sonic Forces makes absolutely no sense and they treat him like he is on a alien planet but he was never an alien in the game canon. Idk man it's wack I think it's because SEGA Of America didn't work on Sonic Forces and the team that worked on Sonic Forces just did not care about continuity or the developers actually didn't know the continuity for some odd reason. Pontiff at least tried understand the game continuity in Generations even though they weren't fans of Sonic in the first place.

[@vegetafan9922]

Who's to say that the Bad Future in Sonic CD didn't end up becoming alternate universe. In fact, the future Silver comes from still being wrecked dispite killing Solaris in the past further proves that. What I'm trying to is Multiverse theory is a bitch.

[@Shockwave677]

Rewatching. Honestly this is probably one of my fav videos from you guys

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

Thanks! We enjoyed making it so we’re glad you enjoy listening.

[@omaridaniels8427]

19:54- Well, can we say that Sonic 3 happened because of the Big Arm boss fight in Generations 3DS?

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

And angel island was in sonic adventure and 3 and K was with the echidna clan wiped out by perfect chaos

[@TheAntranig123]

I'm just waiting on David Thunderpants Lurker to write the next sonic game where it starts like a classic game but instead we follow a Flicky recovery through therapy for 40+ hours.

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

Death Stranding meets Flicky, please.

[@TheAntranig123]

@@FindTheComputerRoom Flicky Stranding

[@carterh914]

I don't know what Sega / Sonic Team should do. In my honest opinion I think they should kill the series off for now until they can find a way to rebirth it in a new way. One that feels like the series.

[@andresmarrero8666]

I am from the west and I never thought that there was two worlds. There was nothing to suggest that, there still is nothing to suggest that, nor did I ever think it was Earth. It was just Sonic's world which is clearly not our own. Anybody with two eyeballs can see that, and I never confused the SatAM show for the game world, the two just don't mix and I just assumed that they were just living their lives elsewhere. The two worlds idea creates more questions and issues than what it answers and they keep making excuses instead of acknowledging that continuity exists and be consistent with world building.

[@lpfan4491]

The games very much confirm it to be earth tho.

[@andresmarrero8666]

@@lpfan4491 not a single one does. Humans are just not included or shown which confirms nothing as they could simply be somewhere else on the planet.

[@lpfan4491]

Sa2: Literally says "earth" Shadow the Hedgehog: Black Doom calls it the "blue planet"(actual nickname of the earth) Unleashed:mentions of Gaia, a term closely related to the earth.

[@JD3Gamer]

Playing devil’s advocate here. You could argue that Angel Island is the connective bridge between the worlds. Like there’s an Angel Island in both Sonic’s world and the human world and there’s a portal or whatever connecting the two.

[@purpleboye_]

I align myself heavily with the "death of the author" school of thought when it comes to this. If the author is trying to tell me something is canon without ever putting it in the story, the author has lost any and all authority to make mandates concerning canon. Sorry JK Rowling, Hermione wasn't black and disabled. Sorry Iizuuka, you're just slapping a band-aid on contradictions as an excuse to play fast and loose with continuity.

[@littenfire3563]

exactly. It's not canon if it's not in the game/story. I stopped caring about Sonic continuity since the sonic writers have no idea what they're doing

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

Sonic team in Japan had it right in adventure games

[@lpfan4491]

Dang, tell that the kingdom hearts and kirby-people.

[@goldenboybenny7511]

I don’t believe in the death of the author thing it’s just a excuse for fans to pretend things that they don’t like are not canon when they clearly are.

[@purpleboye_]

@@goldenboybenny7511 If it's not IN THE STORY, it's not canon.

[@untapped8776]

Sonic X and the Sonic movie are the best versions of the 2 worlds thing. It makes total sense and I think it works for Sonic if you explain it as either Chaos powers or ring portals. It's just the fact that the games have inconsistencies.

[@sonicfan2403]

That's because they're their own media.

[@bowmaj8666]

Sonic X has inconsistencies too, and they make everything way more complicated than they need to be.

[@purplecatjake]

My headcanon for the sonic 'world' stuff has generally been that because of chaos emerald shenanigans eggman and the sonic crew keep traveling to new alternate dimensions and making a complete mess of them before traveling to the next unfortunate place. Every distinct setting is a new universe (Original series Mobius, Adventures 1+2 and Shadow the hedgehog are all an earth varient, '06 is it's own self enclosed dimension etc etc). It only seems to take one emerald to travel vast distances of time so having multiple emeralds probably rips huge holes in reality (as well as continuity).

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

Having Humans and Animals living together in Sonics world makes it feel more alive and big

[@ドラゴンリュー-f1x]

yeahhhhhhhhh two world closeeeeeeeeeeeee watching to tailstube

[@Michael-bb5dd]

Classic Sonic is still Sonic's past self, the timeline hasn't changed. Classic just became his own entity as a result of the events of Generations (and likely the Power of the Stars).

[@Michael-bb5dd]

@Super Mario Michael 2 Yes, he did. Both in the beginning and in White Space.

[@bowmaj8666]

So many things about the two worlds thing just don't add up. So humans and anthros can't all live on the same planet, but can travel to and from each others world by some unknown, unexplained method and interact with each other as if it's the norm? People say it makes absolutely no sense to have anthropomorphic animals coming from the same world as the humans, but it makes total sense that the human world has a fairy-like anthropomorphic animal as it's God of Light living in it's core? The world in the old Genesis/Mega Drive games apparently can't be the same one as the Adventure games, despite the fact that they both feature Angel Island, and the idea that Angel Island has the ability to travel between worlds without any definable explanation somehow makes more sense than the games taking place in one world like the games clearly imply! I'm always hearing fans who support this bonkers theory trying desperately to think of ways to explain why it makes sense, but they're clearly coming up with answers to problems that they themselves are creating. Just cut out the middle man! For example Professor Gerald must have travelled to Angel Island and seen the Master Emerald shrine in order to create the replica shrine in the core of the Eclipse Cannon. If you insist that this two worlds thing is true, you now have to invent a method of how he got to the animal world, or make up some BS like Angel Island can travel back and forth between worlds. Either way, it's clearly way more complicated and convoluted than just "He took a plane flew up to it!" It's like people complaining "Why does Mickey Mouse have a regular dog named Pluto for a pet, and yet his friend Goofy is an anthropomorphic dog! That doesn't make any sense! Disney should retcon in the explanation that Goofy comes from a separate universe entirely inhabited by anthropomorphic dogs, and that Goof Troop and A Goofy Movie take place in that world and whenever Goofy interacts with Mickey then he's travelled over to Mickey's world! But we don't need to show him actually doing it!" It's just not necessary!

[@jdawson7877]

the whole reason they made up that 2 worlds crap is just so they can have a excuse not to put humans in sonic games and they don't want to put human in sonic games is because 06 had them and sonicteam is scared to do anything that has the smallest bit of resemblance to 06

[@manicmania695]

Well

[@matthewcorm]

I'm confused.. 🤔 where's the computer room?

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[@miraclewillow1]

I saw a thread on twitter saying each of the 3 classics have a unique set of emeralds per island in the og japanese manuals

[@Axxidous]

Also in SA2 and Battle, GHZ is in the same world as Central City....... just saying

[@RednekGamurz]

I think if Chaos Control can take you to other worlds like how it's presented in Sonic X, then would it really be a stretch to say that Angel Island and the Echidna tribe stuff happened on Earth, then when Angel Island separated itself from the mainland, that the Master Emerald used Chaos Control to transport the whole island to another planet as another means to make sure the emeralds don't fall into the wrong hands? I mean, it's already crazy powerful, and it already makes Angel Island float with no question, so it doesn't seem too weird to me. The Time Eater thing is a weird point to bring up, cause even though it's called the Time Eater and not the Space Eater, Generations focuses on saving locations from the past. The 2 worlds thing doesn't mean 2 universes. Just because SA2 and Sonic 1 take place on different planets doesn't mean that they don't exist on the same timeline as each other, so I don't think Generations is really a mark against the 2 worlds thing. "Why don't Silver and Blaze go to another world in '06?" Maybe they just want to try and make things right. Maybe they would rather try to fix the world than to just abandon it as a lost cause. If anything, it adds to their characters to want to fight to make things right rather than to just say "welp, this world's fucked, bye!", but maybe that's just me. It's better that than to think that neither of them thought to just leave cause they're stupid or something. At the end of the day, would I rather all the games take place on a single world? Yeah, but when it comes to canon, creator's word is pretty absolute, so if Iizuka says the games take place on 2 worlds, they do. I wish it would be explained a bit further than it has, but at least that means these questions of how certain things work can be discussed and theorized.

[@ThatGuy-tc6uv]

I'd say it would be a stretch since the ruins of the Echidna society are in the Mystic Ruins. Did the Echidna tribe live on Earth, meaning there were animal people on Earth? Were they brought to Earth by the emerald and then, upon the Chaos incident happening, the island/master emerald/whatever decided to return to the world the people that abused its power came from?

[@RednekGamurz]

@@ThatGuy-tc6uv My theory is that the echidna tribe and the Master Emerald was on Earth, the whole Chaos thing happened, and when the Master Emerald separated Angel Island from the ruins, it Chaos Controlled the whole landmass to another planet, being Sonic's world. It did this as an extra precaution to avoid the ME's power from falling in the wrong hands.

[@ThatGuy-tc6uv]

@@RednekGamurz But the point of the two worlds is that there's a human world (Earth) and an anthropomorphic animal world (Mobius-I mean, "Sonic's World"). There shouldn't be anthropomorphic echidnas on Earth at all. This also raises questions as to how/why Gerald based the final version of Project Shadow on an animal person similar to those from Sonic's World (unless Black Doom also visited Sonic's World and decided, for some reason, to give Gerald the idea to base Shadow on that).

[@RednekGamurz]

@@ThatGuy-tc6uv As far as I know, we've never actually got any clarification on what the 2 worlds are, just that there are 2 worlds (unless you have a source that states otherwise). The popular fan theory on why Shadow is a hedgehog is that Gerald found some ancient echidna ruins and at least one of them had something similar to the mural of Super Sonic in Sonic & Knuckles, and he based Shadow off of that.

[@ThatGuy-tc6uv]

@@RednekGamurz The obvious implication is that the two worlds are Earth and Sonic's world, which is Sega's way of explaining why Sonic and co hang around humans in some games and other anthropomorphic animals in others. This is reflected in most media after a certain point: Compare Reboot-Archie which, although naming the world "Sonic's World", still had humans and anthros co-existing to IDW where humans are nowhere to be seen. Compare the Sonix X pilot, which took place on Sonic's World and had animal people, to the show proper which immediately teleports the cast to Earth. Compare Unleashed to Forces. There really isn't much reason to interpret "two worlds" as anything aside from that. Likewise, Gerald basing his research on the Echidnas brings up more questions given that those ruins shouldn't exist on Earth, but do anyway.

[@GoldStorm07]

Where do the Special Stages fit into all of this?

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

Over there

[@DerekMK]

Drugs

[@callumsparrow4379]

GoldStorm07 I’ve always though the Special Stages were in another plain of reality, not unlike the Sol Dimension.

[@Phantom-T]

Iirc, the Archie comics state that the special stages are pocket dimensions that the Chaos Emeralds create to protect themselves.

[@Comkill117]

I figured the Chaos Emeralds teleported Sonic to a little challenge thing to prove he was worthy of using them. By SA1 he had used them multiple times so he didn’t need to prove himself anymore.

[@Time_Fire199]

Ok, so I've been thinking about this for at least a minute, and I've got the answers. The solution lies in the Family Guy season 10 episode, "Back to the Pilot." Stewie and Brian travel back in time, and mess up our future so much that they continuously travel back to the initial point in the past and meet hundreds of their counterparts. What does this mean? Since so many Stewies and Brians from different timelines have met, this means that several timelines, including our original timeline, in which the Sonic Canon was written differently have combined, so we now live in a chaotic reality where many cohesive Sonic canons have combined into a single messy one.

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

Hmm. Yep, new headcanon

[@LiveHedgehog]

If you imagine that Sonic/Shadow used the Chaos Emeralds to restore the moon at the end of SA2, it makes the lack of a destroyed moon less annoying in future titles.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

To me, only one canon exists is the adventure series. The angel island in the adventure is 3and K

[@СозданиеБезымянное]

Sonic fans before: y hoomins, Sawnik live on Mabiuz, hoomins bad, Mabiunz good Sonic fans now: y Mabiunz, Sawnik live on Orf, hoomins good, Mabiunz bad

[@Axxidous]

Angel Island came from Mystic Ruins which was being explored by humans for the first time. This could imply that the whole place was new to their world. And I believe in Sonic X, Mystic Ruins an Angel Island both come over to the human world but originate from Sonic’s. That explains that one game that creates this issue. It could be a Bible that was created for the 3-D games, for Sonic X or even the movie and then just slapped on to everything. It’s also possible that it is just a guide to help the developers portray the characters a certain way. Maybe they decide something behind the scenes to portray the character that way, but then they never make it official in the story itself. Like how in The Walking Dead it is stated that they never refer to the zombies as zombies because they never had a zombie media in pop culture. But they never specifically state whether they’ve heard of the concept before or not in the comics or shows. They could at least say “ i’m surprised they were never any comics or movies about something like this“. Sonic then has the issue of SA2. Shadow being created in the human world. Which is already an issue in Sonic X. The only thing I can assume is that Eggman was born in the human world, but somehow ended up in Sonic’s world. Or was born there but left behind by accident. And that he may be connected to his grandfather having been there giving him inspiration for Shadow’s design, with or without meeting Black Doom. He still must have gotten the design from the Merrow in hidden palace on Angel Island, because the altar to the master Emerald is still on the ARK in Sonic X. I prefer to think that this new Bible is just to help them portray the characters differently. Like, behind the scenes they will see they are in a different world, so that way the developers remember to portray the game in a certain direction such as only showing humans are only showing animals. But if the Bible is meant to be taken literally in the games, then I can see it reflecting in the new movies the way things are going.

[@trailduster6bt]

Mystic Ruins isn’t a problem if you’re using Sonic X as the standard because in that show both the Mystic Ruins and Angel Island are transported to station square through chaos control. It refers to them as two islands

[@ivanelugo]

Yeah but that never happened on the games

[@СозданиеБезымянное]

And what about Blaze's dimension? Is it also separated in animal world and human world?

[@goldenboybenny7511]

Ok I support two worlds but I understand why others don’t But classic sonic being from another dimension creates no plot holes and only fix’s continuity errors. I honestly don’t see why people hate it.

[@JoseAlberto-dh8pf]

I think people would complain more becuase of the phantom ruby's existance "Why just now eggman decided to use the phantom ruby a gem that didnt exist before yet apprarently in mania it always existed under angel island" That would be on the same level as the time travel in 06, "Why didn't shadow used chaos control to stop Maria's death?"

[@goldenboybenny7511]

Jose Alberto classic sonic is another dimension so phantom ruby came from that dimension also shadow aimed to move onto his past at the end of shadow the hedgehog trying to bring Maia back with time travel would be the opposite of doing that.

[@goldenboybenny7511]

@Fluppie what’s welp officials the only thing that validly debunks/ retconns it back to one world was tailstube because it came from the official sonic KZbin channel.

[@FrostTheHobidon]

Ken Penders doesn’t own the name Mobius, that started by AoSTh

[@sparkly9294]

It's almost like it's cartoon hedgehog game and they don't care about lore and continuity.

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

It's a shame we didn't float that possibility multiple times..............wait who am I again

[@DerekMK]

Nah that can't be it

[@Eminster]

That is not an excuse.

[@Time_Fire199]

@@Eminster I mean, let's be honest, most cartoon TV shows lack any kind of real continuity, and are not criticized for it, so why should a cartoon video game series be expected to have continuity, especially when story means less in a video game than in a TV show or a movie?

[@Comkill117]

Paul Estrada because there was continuity existed for years until they just decided it didn’t.

[@sebastianbenavidesmorales2274]

have someone else notice how the world in the sonic riders games is very futuristic looking, with flying cars and stuff, which kinda fit with grand metropolis from sonic heroes?, while the cities from adventure 1-2, unleashed, 06 and STH, are very normal looking? so maybe there's two worlds after all

[@rynobehnke8289]

Than explain why GUN is investigating during the events of Riders Zero Gravity. And on top of these are the cities we saw in the classics (most Sonic 1) far more normal than the Futuristic ones from Heroes and the Riders games. (it gets worse with Forces which has both something as normal as City escape in the City levels and something as futuristic as the Heroes stages in Metropolis City)

[@xraiderblack1850]

Isn't Sonic Riders an alternate reality? That's why you never see any of the other characters until Free Riders in story.

[@breakfastbacon3764]

Planet Nonsense

[@PolarPhantom]

Mobius really hecked things up as well.

[@x-mighty7602]

I want to go to Sonikku'ZaWarudo haha.

[@comicfan1324]

I actually like the two worlds theory

[@hihi-nm3uy]

the most painful part about this video is watching you knock down the gaia minions and *not* spin-throw them at the others no srsly this unleashed gameplay is killing me

[@Kyle-lo8xb]

I'd love more discussions like this

[@LucidPhoton]

I've seen this video like 4 times in the last 3 days. This is such a fascinating topic and I love any video where David just rambles on and on about Sonic. I did see the Sonic forces Pocket dimension video❤️ don't ya worry. I feel like the two world theory is cool and I like it, the problem is that it's way too late to establish that. If this was established around adventure and they stuck with it and further explored it then alright but no, it comes out of nowhere and makes things convuluted. Maybe if they had used the "counter earth" hypothesis instead of an alternative dimension as a basis it would've made more sense but still at this point in the franchise it doesn't work. At this point I'd say the Earth Sonic lives on is much larger than our earth and there fore can have more continents and islands on it. That's the logic that Marvel and DC use at least. Sorry I just adore this kind of world building. Sonic has a surprising amount of it. ~

[@katelynthewhitewerewolf6376]

I never liked this theory anyway I always prefer The Sonic Characters and Humans in the same world because I always liked Anthro Animals and Humans in the same world same with Dragons and Humans. I always liked the coexist of Anthro Animals and Humans and Dragons and Humans in the same world together way more because it's better I hope the humans come back permanently in Sonic Frontiers and for the rest of The Sonic Series too. My favorite human designs are Shadow the Hedgehog Sonic 06 and Sonic Unleashed they have the best designs besides why are humans hated in The Sonic Series and nobody wants other humans in The Sonic Series? Eggman himself is a human and him being the only human doesn't make any sense because his grandfather created Shadow and Maria was Shadow's friend yet nearly everyone forgets this? Seriously what do they think Eggman is? A Mobian? He's not he's a human too.

[@rynagon_]

I think Earth being the planet that games takes place on is fine, I think it works if it’s a twisted version of Earth. But I think that it being Mobius or some place like Mobius is cooler, since I have an easier time believing all these crazy looking surreal places with signs of ancient echidna tribes, floating islands, and multicolored power emeralds actually exist. Plus I think Earth is a little boring, for Sonic anyways.

[@Nice_Person7379]

It’s an excuse to get rid of people in sonic. Amy clearly lives in the United Federation in a flat in Downtown.

[@JohnSmith-1066]

David is an intellectual goliath.

[@Pretty_Rad]

Didn't Tails' Sky Patrol have another human character in it as well? Though that entire game is just kind of bizarre in the first place.

[@ThatGuy-tc6uv]

There's a theory that it was originally supposed to be a Mickey Mouse game, so that's probably why.

[@Pretty_Rad]

@@ThatGuy-tc6uv That's interesting. The game is so off the wall that I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

[@mechashadow]

(Why do we even care?) David easily. Now that’s the easier answer of the two.

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

Curse him.

[@aortaplatinum]

There's actually never a single mention in English localizations of "Earth" in any game. It's always called "the world" or "the planet".

[@STikER326]

Sonic Adventure 2?

[@lpfan4491]

Yes, the name is in SA2. Plus, english localizations are not canon anyways.

[@ALegendaryBlueHedge]

Unleashed?

[@gryffindorftw6198]

Sonic’s continuity being a train wreck is a lesson in why it is important to take fans’ opinions into consideration but not to the point where you’re trying to make everyone happy and thereby cause the story and lore to lose cohesion and become a giant mess. It’s also a lesson in making sure you pay attention to the continuity you established instead of just tossing plot-points aside for no reason just to bring said plot-points back when it’s convenient, like the issue with the moon.

[@PolarPhantom]

Zelda has integrity at the very least.

[@Shockwave677]

Maybe we should've let the Ark blow up the human world in SA2

[@JohnnyLCob]

*I'm so jealous you got to talk to Jason Griffith.*

[@SegaSky]

Donate to my Kickstarter to commission Lani Minella to say "Aww heck baby."

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

I’ll give three dollars.

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

I think the main issue with sonic and humans is that sonic in real world inspired locations can work and people appreciate that. The actual *HUMAN* part of that doesnt. Sonic running on great wall of china? Cool. Sonic running on great wall with real life people? Weird and clashes overall. Unleashed was a valiant attempt but just looks even weirder in its own way. Sonic works best when hes in a world of animals like him, and the occasional human or other type of being existing. Its why the freedom fighters became popular, its why the western fanbase blew up as it did.

[@christinaw8660]

Just call it Mobius Sega and not be constrained to keeping them on Earth or tied to a stupid name like "Sonic's World" and be done with it.

[@GordieKat]

I miss the days of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. The series was finally consolidating back then.

[@damienmarquez4689]

I'm so fucking confused, but I think it makes sense?

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

Same.

[@MadSociety-uy6zg]

The youtuber not naming names that defends this theory just started calling me names lmfao 😂

[@Jayromi2]

When are we gonna get to the point where Sonic 06 is suddenly a good game now

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

I already see it in some places. More power to them I suppose.

[@JD3Gamer]

I treat each Sonic game as it's own contained thing unless the game explicitly says it's a direct sequel/prequel to another game. Like how Sonic 2 and Sonic 3&K are direct sequels. I do the same for the Zelda franchise. The devs clearly weren't thinking of a cohesive timeline so trying to piece every game together is ultimately a fruitless endeavor. Fun video though.

[@JoseAlberto-dh8pf]

FINALLY SOMEONE WITH COMMON SENSE

[@nowlwane9623]

Bad writing effects the quality of the IP

[@milesprower6720]

forces can't be Canon because green hill is on south island. But in forces it's on the main land. Also in SA2 green hill is clearly on a island to the side

[@Naruku2121]

I mean you could argue that with the phantom ruby Eggman could of warped reality to the point that land masses and other things that were out of place could of just got jumbled up. Sure that's up to interepation and your own opinion of the Phantom Ruby's power. On one hand it deals with illusions, on another hand it had illusions that could cause actual harm like that Sun thing Eggman was gonna nuke everyone with.

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

Honestly, Sonic odyssey better happen Mario odyssey proves the mushroom kingdom and metro kingdom are indeed in the same planet the mushroom kingdom is very far away to affect the galaxy games, sunshine is off on isle delfino the beanbean kingdom is in the continent of the mushroom kingdom

[@СозданиеБезымянное]

tbo I'm glad Ian Flynn didn't know there were two worlds when he wrote post-SGW Archie series. It's my favourite iteration of Sonic's world to date.

[@johnnycakemusic4069]

I stand by my opinion that the real story started in sonic 2, then got handed over to handheld games in 2005, then finally died in 2008 with chronicles. consistent lore and assets that defined the series, all killed because of ken penders and outcry from us fans and critics at the time to stop making "edgy" stories. everything past then hasnt stayed to a consistent timeline, hell, they don't have stories. colours, generations lost world, forces, that weird "boom" experiment. they dont seem to care anymore, stories are poorly written and just lazy upfront. I dont know why they even bother making games anymore. sonics reputation is tarnished beyond repair, the game quality is careening down again worse than the early 2000s, the story is loooooooong dead and inconsistent if it has one, andoverall, it seems sega/sonic team is getting tired or confused on how to make sonic games. the only active and so far consistent sonic creators are unsurprisingly the fans.

[@JayDayX116]

You guys forgot how mobius is a yugioh card. This whole video is invalid. I love you fuckin nerds.

[@Axxidous]

“Well Ken Penders trod to do a lot of things” I don’t know what that has to do with anything. The other dude was still right. Penders was going for a racial segregation thing. Therefore that’s what it was in the comics. And that happened and therefore is a point of reference for the main topic. Was it just to get in a remark about Penders upon hearing his name? o0

[@FindTheComputerRoom]

More like it was a way to get away from talking about him since it wasn’t as relevant to the topic. No point in dwelling on that when we could be talking about dabbing.

[@MadSociety-uy6zg]

Part of me just wants to cry so is Sonic generations not canon going through the past how is greenhill part of god I don't want to say modern Sonic's world I think I threw up in my mouth a little lol 🤮

[@calebricks4890]

Sonic lore just kinda seems like a confusing mess...Does it really even need to be tied together? Could it just be like Mario (I hope that's not heresy or something)? He played tennis, and went to space, and drifted around in a kart, but we don't know when or if it's the same Mario or even if it's the same universe...but it's not explained and doesn't need to be. It's a self contained experience and it doesn't need to be tied together. Sonic could potentially benefit from a model like that, I think.

[@Comkill117]

The thing is it wasn’t confusing until like 5 yeas ago. There was a pretty direct line from Sonic 1 through Generations.

[@pimposki6232]

well, until 06 anyway

[@plates7245]

The main reason is that from Sonic 1 to at least advanced 3 there is a timeline of events that is somewhat intuitive. It goes 1, CD,2,3&K,Adventure 1, Advanced 1, Adventure 2, Advanced 2, Heroes, Shadow, Sonic Battle, Advanced 3. Sonic Rush and 06 are when it gets difficult to follow because lack of Gemerald in Rush and the obvious 2 Blazes and later 2 Eggman Nega.

[@lpfan4491]

Yeah, 2006 onwards made it very confusing. Even Shadow tried its best to tie into the world naturally.