Why Spain (Still) Has Cities in Africa

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Spain has several territories, including two small cities, on the northern coast of Africa. These behave essentially like any other city in Spain, but why do they still belong to Spain?
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📖 SOURCES:
www.bbc.com/news/world-africa...
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[KhAnubis]

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[Karlo]

Make video about croatia geografy like you did with indonesia and egypt

[RangerRilles]

Oh wow its today!

[Miguel Rosario]

coolest sponsor ever

[A]

Spain always had cities in Africa. That is Spain since the early birth of the country in the late Middle Ages.

[Incog B]

@A I love Morocco ☺️

[Jesus Davis]

In Spanish the term plazas de soberanía is not currently used for Ceuta & Melilla, it's used only for the outlying islands

[Geoffrey Charles]

And what do you call them then?

[CBZ 1068]

@Geoffrey Charles Ciudades autónomas

[Mesa Escritorio]

@Geoffrey Charles autonomous cities

[Luciano Casaroli]

@Incog B no. That’s not what Spain calls them. It’s in the constitution: autonomous cities of Ceuta and Melilla.

[Geography Joe]

I’ve been to Ceuta on my way to Morocco, it was shocking to see how tall the border fences are. But ceuta itself was weirdly unremarkable, with the same architecture I’d expect from anywhere else in Spain. Its really quite interesting, plus there are more spanish flags in ceuta than I’d seen anywhere else

[Julian Witkowicz]

Yup, same here, I visited Mellija where I was crossing the border. City was simply...boring, but border, damn man. I felt like a criminal running away from Spanish law or smth

[Ixamisus]

my grandma is from ceuta!

[Incog B]

Ceuta has a major place in the Moroccan imaginary, because it hides an important symbolic for us. Many Spanish ignore it, but before the Portuguese took Ceuta, it was the 4th largest Moroccan city (after Fes, Marrakech and Meknes) and it was the largest Moroccan port. When the portuguese took it, the local population either fled to Tetouan / Fes or the rural neighboring area and the least lucky where enslaved and sent to Portugal. Having flags there does not erase it was ours, and the economic and symbolic meaning behind it. And yes we will fight, and yes the U.S. and France will back us.

[Ixamisus]

@Incog B you really think they will fight the EU?

[Incog B]

@Ixamisus Who said the EU would back Spain? Spain is like a neglected child rn doing the most these past 2 weeks.. they just announced surrender of the Western Sahara .. we (Morocco) were backed by western powers; Spain is seen as not stable, and it’s leadership is truly not.. very much weirdos. Opps i said too much;)

[Tokyo Anal Dynamine]

Hey, I know I already pointed this out in a different video, but since my native language is Spanish I want to point out again that I really appreciate the efforts you make to pronounce foreign names correctly. Even if it's not 100% perfect it really does make your videos look better researched, and it makes your content much more enjoyable to watch. A lot of youtubers really mangle foreign pronunciations and it makes me wonder just how informed they are when they do things like mess up the Spanish soft G.

[Medic Volivill]

Tasventi LP because of how many people don't make the least effort in pronunciation. Language is culture and its always appreciated that a foreginer tries to respect that.

[Miliba]

ikr! youtubers constantly mispronounce "croats" as "crotes"

[Eric Burton]

@Medic Volivill To me it's not a matter of trying or respect. It's ignorance. How he pronounced it in English is how most Americans would pronounce it phonetically if they had never had heard a native speaker pronounce. The reason why I say it's not a matter of respect is because to me it seems more like a way to try and make people feel dumb. And the reason why I say that is because I'm from a state in the US that has alot of weird pronounciations because the name started out Ojibwe, then French, then English and alot of the times the written word got stuck in the French version of the Ojibwe word. And people from places like Spain (or elsewhere) tell locals how they should pronounce the word! If you are against that, and think that the local version of the pronounciation should always be respected then I agree. It just seems to me like there are alot of double standards. Sorry for the rant, it just happened recently, so it was fresh and seeing these comments set me off because of the hypocracy! For all I know all of the people commenting this on this video and liking it wouldn't be the ones telling locals how to pronounce their own city just because they are American. But it definitely happens alot.

[Cesar Rodriguez]

Interesting video about Ceuta and Melilla, my mum's older brother did his military service in these cities in the late 50's. Would loved to have asked him loads of questions about his time in North Africa. My dad was lucky and ended up in Jaca in the Pyrenees.

[Traveling is FREEDOM]

This seems to be a very interesting place, I hope I can visit sometime in the future. Seeing and sharing places like this is why I love traveling and make videos so much! And please keep up the great job! Subscribed!!

[Steve Nesbit]

Back in 1975... just after leaving the Peace Corps in West Africa... I visited Moracco and planned to travel through Spain and France to England. I took a bus to Ceuta from Fes, but it didn't actually go into Ceuta. The bus pulled over on the side of the main road where a dirt/gravel road intersected. The driver pointed down that road and said, "Ceuta". A few other people and I got our luggage from the bus and walked about 100 yards down the road where our passports were checked and we entered Ceuta. I don't remember much about it because I took the ferry to Algeciras in mainland Spain the next day. (Nice view of Gibraltar crossing over by the way...) At that time though, I don't remember any fences... just a dusty small border post.

[Agar Triker]

Nice for you to visit.

[kjul]

I always thought these territories were some leftovers from the Spanish colonial area, really interesting and well made video!

[theancientone]

Just a few days ago I‘ve seen these on a map and i‘ve been wondering why these cities are there. Thanks for the video, it was really informative!

[De costa a costa]

The situation for Ceuta and Melilla has nothing to do with Gibraltar. Gibraltar was given to the British crown under a series of conditions which have been repeatedly ignored over the centuries, a population replacement and a grade of autonomy for Gibraltar which was never considered as possible.

[Samuel Hitch]

At the end of the day all 3 are Ill gotten gains. All 3 are still modern day colonies. Please don't tell me you can seriously call out Gibraltar as a colony in one breath and not cueta and meililla? By the way I'm British and I'm admitting that I think Gibraltar is kind of a colony as I call it how I see it, but so are cueta and Melilla and I'm pretty sure any Moroccan would say the same thing to you that you say about the British but X 2

[De costa a costa]

@Samuel Hitch Ceuta and Melilla are not colonies, they are Spain like Madrid itself. I am not going to feed a debate which doesn't exist

[Samuel Hitch]

@De costa a costa thats the oldest trick in the book. What would you say if tomorrow the UK absorbed Gibraltar and declared it was another state within the United Kingdom? You wouldn't accept it. Well I not any morrocan accept your silly argument that those cities are anything but the remnants of the Spanish empire. Madrid isn't sitting on the coast of Morocco FFS 😂

[De costa a costa]

@Samuel Hitch Man, you are the only one mentioning the Spanish empire. United Kingdom absorbed Gibraltar like 300 years ago, skipping the rules they accepted to follow. Ceuta and Melilla have been Spanish for more than 400 years. They were never Moroccan, they will never be. They were founded as Portuguese and Spanish cities respectively. Honestly, I am unable to see the correlation between their position on the map and a reason for a justified Moroccan colonisation.

[Samuel Hitch]

@De costa a costa exactly can't see correlation with Gibraltars position on a map and it being Spanish. I've stolen the below from a post on Quora as I too don't have the time to get into it. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It makes nationalists (on both sides) feel good to rattle sabres and playing on perceived injustices is a great way of getting attention, especially in the run up to an election. Those who believe that Spain’s rights to Ceuta, for example, are stronger than the British claims to Gibraltar ought to check their history books. Ceuta was ceded to Spain by Portugal in 1668, under the Treaty of Lisbon, so has only been in possession of Ceuta for 45 years longer than the British have been in possession of Gibraltar. Likewise, those who claim that Spain have been in possession of Ceuta for longer than the Kingdom of Morocco existed are on equally thin ice: the current royal family of Morocco - the Alaouite dynasty - have been ruling the country since 1666 (only two years after Spain gained Ceuta from Portugal), with the interruptions since being colonial enterprises by powers including Spain, which is no fault of the Moroccans. Treaties can be rewritten and superseded but the crux of the matter is that the status quo always trumps the counterfactual. “What might have been” or indeed “what might in future be” might be very interesting but “how things actually are now” must always be the starting point for a process of examination. So, just as the British have a right to claim Gibraltar as “theirs” due to Treaties signed in the past, so does Spain have a right to claim Ceuta and (an even stronger claim to) Melilla. Worth noting that Morocco also claims territory that others believe is theirs - principally, Western Sahara, which Spain ceded in 1975, was immediately invaded and claimed by Morocco, in contradiction of the ICJ 1975 judgement that the Sarawi’s have the right to self determination. No one comes out of this well, frankly. These “possessions” are all a slightly uncomfortable vestige of colonial history. Lacking a clear solution to any of these problems of claim and counter claim, it’s perhaps worth reflecting that the process we usually fall back on for determining the outcome of such questions is democratic, understanding that the people who actually live in these places should probably be the ones to choose which country the land they live on “belongs to”, or if they want to be independent. As things stand: the people of Gibraltar clearly want Gibraltar to remain British. the people of Ceuta and Melilla clearly want their enclaves to remain Spanish. the people of Western Sahara almost certainly want Western Sahara to be independent. the goats on Perejil, Mogador etc almost certainly don’t care who rules but their owners have a clear preference for Morocco.

[MrViking]

Fun fact, the EU stretch over three continents: Europe, Africa and South America (French Guyana and several islands in the Caribbean) and three oceans: the Atlantic Ocean, the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean (french islands outside Madagascar)

[Key West]

And Pacific. Since Polynesia is a French dom tom

[PD_1945]

You're forget little french Island near newfoundland which in north America or you can argue Greenland which is Denmark autonomous area still be in north America and in EU too. (In case you count bounce of Caribbean are in south America)

[MrViking]

@PD_1945 actually not. The French islands, st pierre and miquelon are french but not EU. The same for Greenland which is also not EU. There are also several other islands around the world which are European but not EU.

[Javi1234]

@MrViking they re France, so they are EU, they re just not Schengen Area for free movement. Dont say thanks.

[Mateus Cavalheri Pereira]

@Javi1234 Only nine territories located significantly far from the European continent shelf are formally and legally part of the EU, those recognised as "Outermost Regions" (OMRs). This includes the Canary Islands, Azores, Reunion, Guadeloupe, but does NOT include St Pierre et Miquelon (the French Islands in North America). St Pierre et Miquelon, like other territories such as New Caledonia, French Polynesia, Greenland, Aruba, etc... are called "Overseas Countries and Territories" (OCTs) and are formally and legally NOT part of the European Union. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_territories_of_members_of_the_European_Economic_Area

[Tobi Rates]

Very interesting! I’d never heard of these cities, or their exclave status. Video looks and sounds smashing. Keep up the good work, and good to see you traveling again!

[Incog B]

"The mule women of Melilla on the border of Spain and Morocco Documentary " on KZbin

[Miguel Lázaro Gil]

You should have talked about "La marcha verde" which was a invasion of the Spanish Sahara in 1973. Morocco sent hundreds of thousands of civilians to walk into Spanish territory and Spain (with Franco severely ill and many conflicts with Sahara independentists) decided to leave all together. Some people say they tried to repeat that strat with Ceuta.

[Mr_Lemons]

La marcha verde was in 1975, but yeah. 1973 is the year of the foundation of the polisario front. Also worth to mention that it was backed by France and most notably the US and the CIA, contributing a lot to the general logistics of the marcha. The interest being to avoid a polisario front controlled by Algeria, then a soviet aligning country.

[R Spyro]

First time I see a foreigner so well informed about this topic. Good job.

[007 The World Is Your Oyster]

The Spanish protectorate in Morocco was quite large during World War Two as opposed to what the case is at present. So much so that a plane load of American paratroopers got detained there by Franco's forces during Operation Torch and were held until February 1943.

[Robert Flores]

I love this video. Very informative. Wish I knew this when I was in Morocco . Keep these videos coming.

[Audio Videando]

Ceuta (Abyla) and Melilla (Rusadir) were Phoenician colonies since about 700 aC, and due to their position on the coast, their history is more intertwined with Spain than with the African interior.

[morad benazzouz]

what is that for an infantile argument ? Maybee you should left granada toledo sevilla, they got more in cammon with their islamic history, than with manchego eating people ? What aboute that ?

[Audio Videando]

@morad benazzouz I know those 3 cities. Spent childhood years in Toledo and youth in Sevilla. Also been several times in Granada. So, like we say, go teach your grandma how to fry eggs.

[Audio Videando]

@morad benazzouz Let me explain something to you: we don't think God's job is to tell you what to wear, what to eat and what to drink. We don't like those restrictions

[morad benazzouz]

@Audio Videando you explained nothing, in terms of education and knowledge, your folk lost it when we left, maybee it will be better to be not so rassist.

[Audio Videando]

@morad benazzouz I didn't say anything racist. Better save the accusation for real racists

[מ.מ.]

0:14 Yes, Czechia would definitely be landlocked if that would happen.

[Alkalus]

Can't be more landlocked than it already is.

[מ.מ.]

@Alkalus Uzbekistan and Liechtenstein would argue that it definitely can be.

[Mod Maker 🇵🇱]

@Wonderbread But Germany is temporarily giving Czechia it's ports.

[Quuaaarrrk!!]

@Wonderbread So have a bunch of other countries (such as Austria, Hungary, Serbia), it's simply a silly small mistake

[Wren W.]

I know you tried to get the pronunciation - like you always do - but most locals in Ceuta would pronounce it ['seu.ta]. Ceuta is one of the few parts of Spain that has seseo, where /s/, /z/ and /c/ are pronounced as [s]. That said, in media interviews with the locals and in universities, you'll mostly hear ['θeu.ta] since pronouncing /c/ and /z/ as [θ] has more prestige. Cruz Ortiz, R. (2020). Seseo, ceceo y distinción de /s/ y /θ/: el caso de los políticos andaluces en Madrid. Fernández García, A. (2015). Repensar las fronteras lingüísticas del territorio español: Melilla, entre mosaico sociológico y paradigma lingüístico. Knoerrich, S. (2012). When Spain meets Morocco: discourses, language choices and linguistic policy in Ceuta and Melilla. Sayahi, L. (2011). Spanish in Contact with Arabic. Tilmatine, M. (2009). Ceuta y Melilla: elementos para una aproximación sociolingüística.

[Tokyo Anal Dynamine]

Oh that's fascinating. Is the dialect in Ceuta/Melilla similar to the one in Andalusia besides the seseo?

[Jesus Davis]

There's a Spanish CNN anchor from Melilla, I've heard him mix both forms. Your explanation makes total sense on why he does that 👍🏽

[Incog B]

Bcs it’s Moroccan 💀..

[Pát]

@Incog B Pero si son parte de españa... 🤣

[Moe Elma]

Its pronounced Sebta in arabic by the people who founded the city and you stole the land and changed the pronounciation... not chhhhhrouta lol

[Switchblade]

As someone who sees themselves as a geographical genius, you blow my mind, these are the incredible things I'm into, appreciate you pal

[Cordell]

I lived in Melilla! It's interesting to see Melilla & Ceuta getting some attention lately. One interesting thing in Melilla & I believe Ceuta too is they love their multiculturalism. They have a square of culture that shows the cooperation of the Spanish, Indians, Jews & Moroccans. The people are extremely patriotic & are majority Spanish but they still value other cultures. Moroccans tend to hate Melilla & Ceuta from my experience in Morocco & with refugees in Melilla & some Spanish people on the mainland barely know they exist. Not all of course but it's like you wouldn't know every town in your country. That's how Spanish they are. One thing that can't be denied though is Morocco has no claim to them aside from the fact that they are close to Morocco. According to international law, the Moroccan claim is considered extremely weak.

[Carmen N]

Every spanish person knows about Ceuta and Melilla, what do you mean?😅

[Cordell]

@Carmen N Not true 😂 Ask around if you're living in Spain. Most have heard something about them but until the last few years not so much. Before the recent tensions some people I asked on the mainland didn't even know they existed, especially people under 25. I've had entire groups of teenage students ask me where Melilla is, not one of them knowing it exists

[Carmen N]

@Cordell I'm spanish and have been living in Spain all my life. It's true that some young people can be uneducated, and their geography is not very good (not just regarding Ceuta and Melilla, but maybe even other provinces they haven't come across), but the people who dont know about Ceuta and Melilla are a very small minority, I've never come across someone who didn't know about them.

[Cordell]

@Carmen N Really? That's very surprising as it is very different to my experience in my 15 years in Spain. I've spent a lot of time in both Catalonia & Galicia so possibly it's more common in those regions but I've definitely found it to be the case. Not just students though, adults also. Recently people are definitely hearing more about them but back 13 years ago when I moved from Melilla to Girona, people had no clue where Melilla was & had no clue that it was in Africa. They have been on tv more and more recently though.

[Carmen N]

@Cordell I mean there's obviously people fron the older generations, like my grandparents, who didn't have access to education outside of learning to read and write, so there's people who lack general knowledge, but that's the case in every other country, it's not a thing of whether Ceuta and Melilla are considered an important territory or not. Actually, and I can only talk about my experience being from a younger generation, in geography class the most basic thing we study is every spanish territory, it's so basic it's almost like the abcs, thats why its hard for me to believe that some people wouldn't know them, but maybe that was the case 13 years ago, I wouldn't know. Obviously there's uncultured people everywhere, but it doesnt reflect the majority of the spanish

[Sugondese]

I have to say I really liked the Fate of Iberia and the events with it

[Phuckin U]

Nice video KhAnubis. Another crazy thing about those two enclaves are they borders. Even though these are two cities they have some of the most craziest borders in the world. The amount of guards that are there as well as the multiple layers of security and fencing that they have set up. The amount of security that have is for a very good reason. The reason why is like some kind of cheat code for migrants. Since those enclaves are legally are part of Spain and Spain is apart of the European Union that means those cities are also officially apart of the E.U. as Khanubis already explained. That being said if the any migrants/immigrants who somehow made into the city they are immediately not allowed to be deported. The second they make it onto that soil that is it, because as mentioned earlier those cities (and those other pieces of land) are legally apart of the European Union making those cities (and pieces of land) subject to the laws of the E.U. Upon making it inside the city they could either choose to remain there in those cities are they could go and get taken to Europe and they could choose any country within the E.U. That being said, most migrants if not all of the migrants/immigrants now this. So large groups of these people start arriving and they camp somewhere outside on the morrocan side, waiting for more immigrants to show up to their camp sight, where they sleep, prepare food, eat and make and discuss their plans for the next day when they will be entering the city. Their playbook is to overwhelm the guards thru complete force and power if numbers and as many people to scale the multiple fences all at once. Other will engage the guards and try to slow them down, sacrificing their chance but for others to have the possibility to maybe make it thru all the obstacles and into the city because as they say, they cant stop all of them. Once they decide that they have enough people they begin to make their way out of their camps where they begin to make their way to the border. There are hundreds, more likely thousands of people, just about about all them young men whom are economic migrants. Upon realizing they are getting closer to the border they all begin to run. There reach the border showing up out of nowhere, wall full of people all running where they soon ambush the guards. Hundreds of those people make it across all those levels of the border and then they hundreds of people are seen running thru the city. Now that they are celebrating they begin to cause havoc which lasts until the next day. Homes are broken into, drivers are attacked, woman begin staying inside or making sure they aren't alone since reports of woman getting sexually assaulted and some of them raped while others were almost kidnapped. They are almost never charged and if some are its sometimes like one or two people even though the locals are reporting it was many many more. Soon after they are then taken to Europe and are released over there.

[Thomas]

The Spanish govt should start putting so much security & such walls , electric wiring ect....& such that not even a rat can squeak through.........as for the ones who care to get through electronic wiring they should set up or electrified metal.mesh nets in the water & land mines on the beach .....a collection of pine boxes for them.that try illegally to enter.

[Kanarimortem]

Thanks for speaking the truth against immigration lovers. Greetings from Uruguay (rightfully hispanic, though we are multicultural in the good way)

[Sky Leonidas]

I am spanish and I approve this video, impressive, a good % of spaniards dont know as much as you do about this conflict

[adriennefloreen]

It's awesome that you went there to get footage for this video! Also your pun rhyme is hilarious. The story at the end about how Spain made Morocco mad and how Morocco tried to get them back by letting in illegal immigrants is also hilarious. Imagine the president of Morocco giving the order. "Spain pissed me off and I can't complain, so let all the immigrants flood their border!"

[Aym Hii]

most of immigrant were from sub saharen contries and its not morocco business to protect the borders

[Incog B]

@Aym Hii they never said anything about that:)

[Weapon]

You make excellent content my friend, keep it up!

[lel Senpai]

Hi i`m from Ceuta. Ceuta is more spanish than granada because portugal conquer it after the end of the reconquista

[Mark Quinton]

And that's the same reason Gibraltar is British!

[iker fernandez]

@Mark Quinton Gibraltar was centuries later than Ceuta.

[Mark Quinton]

@iker fernandez Morocco predates Spain as a country. However if we are only counting the time after a country freed itself from foreign occupation, than Spain has only been a country since the end of Napoleonic Wars and Britain has held Gibraltar longer than that. The fact of the matter is, is that as long as Spain holds on to Cueta and their other colonies, they lack a logical argument for regaining Gibraltar.

[Gonzalo Sánchez Martín]

@Mark Quinton Do you realize that basically no one in Spain cares about Gibraltar being British, right? Sometimes someone says "¡Gibraltar Español!" as a joke, but no one is taking it seriously. There are no political parties in Spain claiming that Gibraltar should be Spanish

[Ylyan_VL]

@Gonzalo Sánchez Martín Te tendría que importar más que los ingleses estén en Gibraltar de forma ilícita, pues controlan la puerta del Mediterráneo. España jamás cedió Gibraltar a Reino Unido, España solo le dió propiedades/puertos en Gibraltar y Reino Unido en su máxima desfachatez reclamó esos puertos como territorio inglés.

[Carlos]

Guam, Islas Marianas del Norte, Islas Vírgenes, Puerto Rico, Haway y Samoa, son colonias de su país, los EEUU, mientras que Ceuta y Melilla son ciudades autónomas, cuyos ciudadanos tienen los mismos derechos y deberes que el resto de los españoles. ¿Por qué los habitantes de esas colonias siguen siendo (aún) súbditos de los EEUU de Norteamérica.

[CruzziGil]

The Whataboutism is going strong here. Just waiting until he he brings up Gibraltar lmao

[Carlos]

@CruzziGil No, no es "y tú más". Es "no metas tus narices donde no tienes derecho a hacerlo". Lo de Gibraltar queda para los británicos, que, al contrario que España con sus ciudades africanas, usurpan un territorio español en contra de la legalidad internacional y los tratados firmados con España. En cuanto a los gringos, solo decirles que tienen una excelente oportunidad de empezar dando ejemplo, abandonando las bases militares que tienen en suelo español. Hasta nunca, colonos.

[Irondequoit]

@Carlos Sin hacer mención a que en Gibraltar los británicos han expandido sus límites más allá de lo que establece el tratado de Utretch.

[Carlos_93]

@Irondequoit cierto, se quedaron con el istmo nunca cedido, en el cual hicieron un aeropuerto y además que no han dejado de ganar terreno al mar. Se cedieron las aguas del puerto ¡pero el de la época! No el que vemos hoy día.

[Berber Bro]

Although part of Europe, being in Africa the enclaves have many special arrangements going on. For example, setting foot on their soils doesn't automatically grant you access to the European asylum system.

[Veron W]

I thought that wasn’t the case?

[Caroline Gelgot]

Love this style of video, well done!

[Jannette Berends]

Great video. I’ve been through Ceuta in 1981, lovely town. And very Spanish indeed.

[Incog B]

Just like Canary is Spanish or how Angola is French

[CEO of Uzbekistan]

Half right

[Incog B]

@CEO of Uzbekistan

[Miguel Rey]

@Incog B Canary Islands are not part os Spain?

[Incog B]

@Miguel Rey They are litterally in Africa and Spain moved in a new population in 14000s and genocided the Amazigh.

[Revin Hatol]

*Had the African Romance language (which went extinct during the Middle Ages) even survived to this day, Ceuta and Melilla would adopt that language as co-official with Spanish.*

[Opiniones de JACC's Opinions]

I mean African Romance is a catch-all as it wasn't one language or at least it might not have been.

[Carlitos El cremita]

@Opiniones de JACC's Opinions ofc its not.In fact africans could stablish countries of nowadays thanks to the languages that europeans left them bc there are toooo many ethnicities

[Incog B]

@Carlitos El cremita what are you saying? lmao

[Carlitos El cremita]

@Incog B african countries didnt exist back then and they couldnt understand each other bc their languages were too diferent(africa is a big continent with many cultures inside of it).So in that aspect the colonization was good for providing the native ppl a language that actually lets them form countries(unite those tribes/ethnicities under the same state)

[3st 3st]

​@Carlitos El cremita None of what you said had anything to do with the discussion. They are talking about the form of Latin spoken in northern Africa when the place was part of the Roman Empire.

[jorgy jojo]

Well, there are some inaccuracies in the video. Gali is not just the leader of a group seeking independence. He is the president of the Government of Western Sahara which a country that is almost fully invaded by Morocco and most of the saharawis are refugees in Algeria nowadays. Morocco has invaded the Western Sahara and kicked out the original population

[Thomas Van hiel]

Liar thats not true you just said this because you mad at morocco who claims their territory cueta and melila canary islands

[Professor Politics]

Holy crap that ad transition was smoooooth. Hats off to you; incredibly clever to use the sponsorship to help make the point you were discussing.

[Fowchiii LIED, PUPPIES DIED]

Well isn’t that precious. Thank you for teaching us all, some history, I truly appreciate this. It’s fascinating, but also essential.

[Belopan]

me as having a spanish father and a morrocan mother i appreciate this video cuz i heard a different story form two different sides and never the actual story

[justgeorge247]

Amazing, you're traveling to Ceuta and doing a video about it. Awesome!

[Saiyan_Elite]

That was actually a really good video! Thank you.

[Jay Thompson]

Good job Paradox this is a good way to low key support your games.

[porculizador]

very nice history lesson... i always wondered about these two cities 👍👍

[Makaveli]

Canary islands are geographically part of Africa too and were originally inhabited by North African tribes

[David C]

North African tribes more related to present day spaniards than to arab invaders. We the spaniards are constantly accused of invading America, but it seems nobody remembers that lots of cultures were destroyed by the religion of peace and love. For example, the old egyptian culture.

[Makaveli]

@David C First of all, the original canarians were Berbers from Morocco. Yes, berbers mixed with spaniards during islamic period but youre still overwhelmingly european, genetically and culturally. Secondly, the arabs were the ones who brought civilization to your country. Spain was insignificant before that time. Dont forget that berbers and arab are both semitic people, so berbers are more related to arabs than to spaniards. Main berber y-dna is e1b1b which they share with other north african and middle eastern people.

[David C]

@Makaveli Do you know the aqueduct of Segovia? It was constructed by the Romans. Spain was very important to Rome. The first non italian people who were given Roman Citizenship were from Spain, specifically from Cádiz (Gades). Even nowadays you can see some seats on the Colisseum were reserved for the Gades nobility. Check it and correct me if I'm wrong. Two of the most loved roman emperors were of hispanic origin (probably romans mixed with local nobility). Séneca is a well known philosopher coming from Hispania. Insignificant Spain? It never was, it is not and it will never be. Deal with it. What can you say about your country in that time? You herded goats? And what's more important, what are your countries today? People only want to visit Egypt and only because of the Pyramids, constructed by non arab non muslim people.

[Mulan Ho]

@David C the maternal line is still 70% native, the land needs to be repopulated by the Amazigh, as we know which areas they came from.

[Mulan Ho]

@David C btw i am from china and a big fan of morrocco❤

[agustin rodriguez]

Ceuta y Melilla son españolas antes de que existiera el estado marroquí como tal. En el Rif sólo había cabillas que no sé sometían al sultán, qué quedé claro de una vez .🇪🇦💪❤️

[Mulan Ho]

the Riffian people are from Morrocco?

[Islam Zarrouk]

@Mulan Ho yes of course

[Dra Cul]

Thats true

[Mulan Ho]

@Dra Cul True lmao

[LayZ]

lo tomaste a la fuerza

[Sebastian Stiernspetz]

I'm Swedish and my grandfather worked as a guest worker engineer in Algeria during the 1970s-80s. One time he told me a story. When he was driving (yes, driving) back to Sweden he entered Ceuta to take a ferry back to Spain. They almost didn't let him cross. I forgot why. Yes, I suck at telling stories, but I'm trying. Quiet.

[Nicolás Perchner]

You make me laugh so hard

[Marvin Brando]

Waiting for the rest of the story

[Flo Punkt]

Why wouldn't he take a ferry to Marseille?

[Beaver252]

Oh so you're Swedish? Name every Swedish person.

[ABCDE DIAZ]

¿No tenía dinero para el billete del ferry tal vez?

[Alex]

Before it was portuguese it had been captured an populated by Iberian Taifas, such as the Taifa of Malaga. So in essence it has always been Spanish. Far longer than for example, other places like the Canary Islands.

[Incog B]

Taifas are Berbers.

[Incog B]

Simple Google

[Retardationnation]

as a Philadelphian it's weird to hear Septa used as a name of a place and not the transportation service. SEPTA is South Eastern Pennsylvania transportation authority.

[rahsaan hill]

And they are the worst lol. Those bus drivers will run you over.

[Iya]

Ayo I'm Philadelphian (living in Madrid)

[Volodymyr Zablotsky]

Fellow a Philadelphian! Though the greatest Philadelphia was the original Greek City that was destroyed by the Turks

[will]

The situation in Western Sahara is so sad. I really hope in the near future more humanitarian attention is directed toward it, seeing as it's quite literally gen0cide and expulsion of nomad peoples. But the Spanish government is often compliant, and it doesn't get paid the attention it deserves

[Mulan Ho]

hi, from china, the Sahroui people are from Morrocco😂😂 the invaders are Spanish, Latina/o, Hassinya Bedouin (i think i spelled that right but those are Arabs from the Hilal Invasion) & some Sudanese nomads. can u explain why Spanish people continously harrass moroccans? This is what i learned from research. Thanks.

[will]

@Mulan Ho Sahrawi people are not Moroccan, they are being persecuted by Morocco

[will]

@Mulan Ho And to answer your question, Spain has a long history of harassing Morocco because of the dictator Francisco Franco who ruled Spain until 1975 and held colonialist intentions

[Mulan Ho]

@will then were are they from? i visit morocco and they are mostly moroccan, the real one the others are Spanish,Arab/Sudanese.. please explain.!

[Jokla Ching]

How beautiful are those cities. Madre España el país de mí sueño. Love from the Philippines ♥️

[Garbancito Lentejas]

Filipinas is my dreams love...

[Jokla Ching]

@Garbancito Lentejas you're always welcome here 🥰

[Garbancito Lentejas]

@Jokla Ching Gracias. Salamat

[Iya]

Filipinas en mi opinión es el mejor país de asia

[Raul Manuel Sánchez Casado]

Comparing Gibraltar with ceuta and Melilla is kind of insane

[Carles massia urko Æ]

Es guiri

[max white]

How about catalonia and the basque countries which wanted out of Spain?

[guershh]

​@max white the basque country independence thing is now more of a meme than anything and the Catalonia situation was just political bullshit as most of the people in both sides wish to remain Spanish

[max white]

@guershh2957 let them have a referendum then, sorted, but your government won't.

[Selia 🔮]

I think it is insane just to u , there is something wrong with u guys , mellila n ceuta , Canary Islands are moroccan either u accept it or not .

[Luis Gonzalez]

There are thousands of people trying to go over the fence from Marroco to Spain. But there is none that go from Spain to moroco. Free Sahara 🇪🇭

[special one]

Free Catalonia and Basque

[Mulan Ho]

hi, from china, the Sahroui people are from Morrocco😂😂 the invaders are Spanish, Latina/o, Hassinya Bedouin (i think i spelled that right but those are Arabs from the Hilal Invasion) & some Sudanese nomads. can u explain why Spanish people continously harrass moroccans? This is what i learned from research. Thanks.

[Luis Gonzalez]

@Mulan Ho For territory, because it are our weaker neighbors. Why China harass Vietnam, India, Japan, Taiwan, etc.?

[Mulan Ho]

@Luis Gonzalez I don’t agree with my government, thats why I ask why so many Spanish do this to Marrooco.!

[Raul Israel]

It bugs me how he put Czechia landlocked without Gibraltar but not France because Czechia def has a sea

[Barca]

I love how KhAnubis pronounced the name of Ceuta wrong, and then pronounced it right but says that’s just what the natives calm it LMAO

[KhAnubis]

There are two ways I pronounce a foreign word: the correct way, and the anglicized way when I don't want it to sound unnatural in an English sentence

[Barca]

@KhAnubis but also with Melilla, very common mistake but it’s actually pronounced meliya, because double L In Spanish is pronounced like a y

[perico]

Tell you that these cities were taken because the Spanish vision was the recomposition of the Roman province of Hispania and among others there was what is called the Hispania tingitana that was the entire area of the Rif, which would have been taken if the forces had not dedicated to America

[Ilija]

Congrats on the paradox collab! wasn't expecting that

[Gillam The Greatest]

ngl i really wish you would have marked all the little rocks and stuff on the map when you were talking about them. made me all curious

[Pony4Koma]

8:17 I, as a Portuguese, approve of this joke! 9:15 You missed a chance to use a translation of Morroco's real name there...

[Incog B]

what is Morocco’s ‘real’ name?

[Tatratram]

@Incog B "Al-Maghrib", roughly meaning "West".

[Incog B]

@Tatratram many meanings;) actually

[Pony4Koma]

@Incog B It would translate as something like "Kingdom of the West" or "Kingdom of the Sunset" (I like the second one~)

[Fernando Laguía]

You forgot two fundamental facts. Ceuta and Melilla were also part of the Roman province named Hispania (Mauritania Tingitana) and also they were part of the Caliphate of Córdoba, which was also a Spanish Kingdom (Muslim in that case but never dependent of Magreb) and also Taifa Kingdoms after the fall of the Caliphate. So, it’s accurate to affirm that Ceuta and Melilla has been more linked to Iberian Peninsula than to Magreb almost all their history.

[MrColuber]

The Portuguese that conquered Ceuta actually called it Ceita. Only later on and due to Spanish influence did the Portuguese start calling the city Ceuta.

[sebta omilla]

The arabic name is the original name. Ceuta is a twist of it.

[MrColuber]

@sebta omilla The original name is Abyla, which is Punic. Punic is related to arabic, but they're not the same.

[2000 denes]

So basically: the northern part of gibraltar is british, and the southern part is spanish. That makes sense

[Joan]

Um not the northern part just a tiny rock

[Jorge Gomez]

If you think the Spanish are petty about holding to old colonial claims, the French are masters of that. Technically, France has borders in North and South America.

[Iya]

UK and USA too

[ismael guzman]

Ceuta and Melilla aren't colonial claims

[Jorge Gomez]

@ismael guzman Cope

[Jorge Gomez]

@Iya UK tries and the US claims are mostly bases, not enclaves.

[ismael guzman]

@Jorge Gomez xd

[Lucas Blevins]

This is one of the best in-video ads I’ve ever seen. One of my favorite videos of yours too! Keep it up man

[M A]

The fact that both cities are on the African mainland seems to be confusing many people. As though that automatically means they must be colonial projects Spain has no legitimate rights to. The logic here seems to be that Morocco must have a claims simply because the cities are closer to them than they are to Spain?? Because if they had the same history but were located on the other side of the Mediterranean closer to Spain is seriously doubt anyone would even entertain the idea that 500+ year old conquered territory is not legitimately Spain's.

[Incog B]

no bcs they are Moroccan & belong to Morocco

[Angel F]

@Incog B Díselo a la ONU, Hassan.

[Incog B]

@Angel F Ok, I will write a letter.

[xElenaboo •]

Its literally moroccan land. Spain has no business in africa

[Beni Cabanas]

@xElenaboo • Now say it without whining 😁

[Triancey]

Great job, thank you so much.

[korpiz]

You could make a video asking why Turkey still has lands in Europe as well.

[Mestizo Un solo]

Spain have those lands in North Africa FOR THE LAST 500 years you know 🤔

[cygańskibigos]

Love your videos!👍

[Enrique Juste]

Title saying “Still” leads to serious confusion. Ceuta & Melilla + other enclaves have been Spanish for many centuries now. Morroco wasn’t even formed.

[ziyad RGB]

What he said that marined was morroco and Spain stol it

[Iulius Caesar]

They were Spanish cities all before all those other countries exist, in fact the whole Rif was, spaniards have been living there for centuries and the Kingdom of Spain holds an efective control over those territories.

[Incog B]

That’s news to us and news to every historian to exist .

[pf]

Good video KhAnubis. One clarification: Ceuta and Melilla were Spanish territories, centuries ahead of Morocco existing as a country. Gibraltar occupation should have ended, based on the Utrecht peace agreement: so UK occupation is illegal, and under a weak United Nations supervision. So nothing to do with the Spanish cities…

[James Hepburn]

The people of Gibraltar strongly want to stay British. Several plebiscites over the years have resulted in near unanimity for staying as is. The people speak English, drive what few streets there are on the left, are proud of being British, and essentially want nothing to do with Spain. Seems they should have the same rights as the Ceuta & Melilla Spanish have, namely to determine for themselves. Spain’s main problem in gaining Gibraltar back after its wartime loss about 300 years ago now, is NO OTHER country wants Spain in control there. NOBODY trusts the former Franco fiefdom to be in charge of such an important sea gate, let alone run it responsibly. They well remember Spain closing off land access to Gibraltar a few times when Spain had some extended hissy fits.

[pf]

@James Hepburn James, yes being a tax haven is more attractive than being part of the most economically depressed area of Spain. But that has nothing to do with history, signed treaties, and legality. Neither Franco...

[Garbancito Lentejas]

@James Hepburn The people of Gibraltar live in La Linea.. what you say people from Gibraltar... they are people from Czyprus, Albania, Greece, Malta etc etc.. they are not natives from Gribraltar but people brought by British in 19th Century....Ceuta y Melilla has never been moroccian. but Spanish from.... Rome´s days?

[Garbancito Lentejas]

​@James Hepburn Islamic population in Ceuta has come in recent years as an illegal population... Gibraltar issue has nothing to do with Ceuta. The latter never belonged to Morocco.....

[\ Emib \]

In every place in the world there seems to exist a random piece of land populated by people that can define themselves europeans citizens 🇪🇺 and use the euro 💶.

[Cristian XD]

Ceuta and melilla is spain from 1415/1495

[Jonny]

Don't mind me , just a Portuguese passing by to say that Ceuta has the most beautiful coat of arms in all Spain and to remind Spain that we signed and kept our word Ceuta was ceded to Spain but Spain is still forgetting to return Olivença, so...if u please 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[DEC2721]

Let's see...Olivença, Olivença... doesn't show up, sorry. Unless you mean Olivenza, which we can't return because we're still looking at it.

[Jonny]

​@DEC2721 😄 oh really well thats what i call limited knowledge but it's ok i understand i'll help u out "Olivenza (Spanish: [oliˈβenθa]) or Olivença (Portuguese: [oliˈvẽsɐ])" but well acording with the Congress of Vienna of 1815 as legit owners we could even call it Olivenza and both would be happy😁😁. meanwhile i was looking up at Spain but only shows up España, weird thing now i know what u experienced, guess you're right😂😂

[Jonny]

Jaun de Alzate Apreciated :P but they choose to stay with spain after the end of the union so we honoured and ceded was their will :P

[Incog B]

We will come for you too don’t worry

[Flashback]

Looks like a lot of people dont know the definition of what is a colony

[Otto Vrizo]

Lets be real, no one would ever choose to stop being spanish and become moroccan.

[Incog B]

Who’se choice

[Omar Bayezza]

I❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦

[Fe deLibre]

Ceuta y Melilla son dos ciudades españolas, pertenecientes a España desde dos y tres siglos antes del nacimiento de USA. ¡Hay que estudiar historia!

[Fe deLibre]

Mocrovich 🇲🇦 Por tu propio bien: estudia historia y de paso entérate que Marruecos y en concreto la familia real produce, exporta y se beneficia del comercio drogadictor de hachís en el mundo. Por cierto, si estudias historia o filosofía, no te drogues con hachis, sino seguirás creyendo las mismas mentiras que te cuentan tus líderes políticos y religiosos.

[Zeineb Ledou]

Spain in africa😂😂😂 hour claims are historically not accurate.

[Mace]

Cool educational video!

[ssurfday]

The real question is why don’t they have more cities there?

[The_Fixer]

9:19 "Despite being good Catholics, Spain never pulled out of Ceuta and Melilla." Really underrated joke there, slipped by me the first time I watched this.

[Snoopy]

This video is quite biased towards the Spanish and doesn’t really reveal the true history about the Portuguese

[Bekisipho Tshili]

"Abandoned their colonies in Africa?" Wow!! All this time I am thinking they were forced to leave...

[LUCAS MAN]

You haven't even talked about the fact that those cities were already governed from the peninsula even before the Umayyads existed. During the Roman Empire.

[Veron W]

Morocco since 789AD.. education very bad in Spain😅

[Jobli]

yeah the phoenicians and the romans, they died off by the end of the antiquity

[ElRubenx]

@Veron W Education isn't bad in Spain, it's just that you're an ignorant. The Roman Empire existed centuries before the Umayyads. Most of Nothern Morocco was already ruled from the Iberian Peninsula during the roman empire, just look at the wikipedia map of the roman empire's territorial organization: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_diocese And Ceuta itself was already part of the Visigothic Kingdom of Hispania before the islamic invasion of 711 A.D.: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visigothic_Kingdom#/media/File:Hispania_700_AD.PNG

[eteatryu fykyfkgfgjfjy]

@Veron W the Roman Empire existed before ad so 1000 years before you guys became arabized

[simo hassane]

France cannot stay on the same path when it comes to its foreign policy, especially its strategic relations with a country like Morocco. She should give more opportunities to her political thinkers, because history has proven that he who does not change grows old

[Colin]

Yes, however France still majorly influences most of its former colonies and there’s actually videos on this topic how they still profit off their former Francophone colonies. France has many military bases in lots of said places so it’s almost just as good.

[StuffandThings]

@Colin Not to mention that they still hold French Guiana, Reunion, and territories in the pacific. French Guiana and Reunion aren't much of a problem but New Caledonia is very much so still treated like a colonial possession, with nickel mining destroying the land for profit and the natives being frequently outspoken and harmed. I'm surprised that situation remains so obscure.

[Colin]

@StuffandThings Agreed. You could argue their empire is still around, just a smaller, neo version. They have hundreds of islands in the pacific, and just out of our view, the government is projecting it’s influence. I’m not sure what’s taken the UN so long. A few territories who fairly voted to remain under the administration of said country is manageable as it may benefit both the territory and the country; but France’s situation is kind of unbelievable. The Portuguese have tons of islands in the pacific, and same with a few other former colonial powers. Why? Major organizations seem to think these are vague issues. I hope the territories/annexed lands that wish for independence gain it.

[Incog B]

@Colin France influences who?

[Colin]

@Incog BFrance is able to influence countries (to some extent) like Papua New Guinea and even Australia along with almost all the island countries in Oceania with New Caledonia, and lots of South America with French Guiana. Whether this is friendly trading or the French totally seizing control of the country’s finances, I am not sure, but either way neo-colonialism is just not good.

[Chris]

Ok straight up, those countries would not be landlocked because we have the Suez canal now. Cool video though!

[Dixon Davies]

The pronunciation of Ceuta "soota" the "e" is there keep the C soft. Malilla is pronouced " maliya" double L is pronounced as "y" in many languages. And there us a third exclave of Soain. Go find it !

[Peter Egan]

Ceuta could build itself a mini airport for E-STOL aircraft.

[Thorond0r]

A Spaniard here. A "Colony" means: territory subject to foreign rule. The Protectorate was a colony, that's why it was decolonised. Ceuta and Melilla were Spain before Morocco was formed. They were never a colony. There is nothing to "give back" since it was never their's. The Canary Islands are another part of Spain in Africa also and nobody talks about it. I guess it's because they are an archipelago, hence no land border. There are more Countries with territories (not colonies) in more than 1 continent: Turkey, Russian, UK, France, Spain, USA, The Netherlands...

[Brandon ocanto]

@Incog B what do you say if morocco did not exist until less than 100 years ago, morocco is a poor baby XD

[Incog B]

@Brandon ocanto i think u r mixing Morocco & spanish

[Jaime TheSpaniard]

@Incog B Morocco was founded along with the Alawite dynasty unifying the country in 1666. Maghreb is not the same as Morocco, like Hispania is not the same as Spain.

[Play Like a Boss]

@Incog B whole of Iberian peninsula was part of the Califate with Umayyads, taifas, Cordoba and Al Andalus, doesn’t justify

[SHM 99]

Excellent video. I just want to point out that Palma de Mallorca is incorrect, the name is just "Palma".

[Aqeel Ahmad]

Thanks for this very important video.

[Gavin Crump]

I always thought it would be neat if Britain gave Gibraltar to Spain in exchange for Spain giving these territories back to Morocco

[Anselmo]

It are different issues. Ceuta and Melilla are spanish cities but Gibraltar is a British Colony in spanish territory.

[Alejandro soto martin]

Giving back Ceuta ? To whom ? to Portugal ?

[Snoopy]

⁠@Anselmounder your logic …..Ceuta should be handed to the Portuguese . How can you have the word “Spanish” mixed with “African continent “ in the same sentence ? One that can make sense to the world ?

[Anselmo]

@Snoopy Yes, but Portugal and Spain were an unity during 60 years and when Portugal separated from Spain, the people of Ceuta decided to continue in Spain. And Spain has been a global state , in América, Filipinas and Africa during centuries.

[Snoopy]

@Anselmo well when Gibraltar was conquered by the Anglo Dutch , in 1704 and the treaty was signed in perpetuity in 1713 , Since then it has been British and will remain British till its inhabitants wish otherwise, and on 2 occasions have held legal referendum , obviously the Spanish simply don’t respect or understand the word NO ! I can’t expect much from a society so laid back and so corrupt at the same time .

[sam will]

"Straights of Gibraltar" is a way lamer name, wish we kept calling it "The Pillars of Hercules"

[KhAnubis]

Tecnically the Pillars of Hercules actually refers to the lands either side of the strait (i.e. the Rock of Gibraltar and Jebel Musa in Morocco), not the waterway itself

[sam will]

@KhAnubis It is still an objectively cooler name.

[Scythal]

@sam will What about the "Channel of the Pillars" or the "Herculean Channel"?

[sam will]

@Scythal Herculean Channel sounds dope but in order to keep things culturally neutral with a Christian nation in the "western" tradition on one side and an african islamic nation on the other "Channel of the Pillars" would be equally cool and more diplomatic.

[Juan Ausensi]

@sam will Well, Hercules is neither Christian or Islamic, so I think it's pretty neutral.

[Miranda Pillsbury]

Their residents are not completely spanish...you failed to mention that Melila has a 45% Moroccan population and Ceuta has something like 25-30% Moroccan population. If you meant citizens sure but you meant it as in ethnic group.

[Alejandro soto martin]

It´s doesn´t exist moroccans as an ethnic group. Those people are full spanish citizens of North African berberian Amazigh origin. Not Moroccans. Or maybe all North Africans are also Moroccans ? Tunisians are moroccans ? Egyptians are moroccans ?

[FunkéJames]

Czechia would still have access to the sea through a port leased in hamburg tho the treaty for that expires in the coming years

[Exploshaun]

I find it funny how what the British is to Spain is the same as what the Spanish is to Morocco. Keeping the peninsulas while claiming the peninsula is kinda hypocritical imo. Regardless it's pretty obvious that the borders aren't gonna change anytime soon and both countries should relinquish their claims and focus on something else.

[Veron W]

thanks for the suggestion ..but no

[ismael guzman]

technically Gibraltar is considered a colony by the UN while Ceuta and Melilla are not

[Alex Potts]

"Despite being good Catholics, Spain never pulled out of Ceuta and Melilla" Is... is that a joke about how they're not supposed to use contraception?

[Dezfyah]

Great video, it was well done and informative. Just a shame that Morocco don't consider themselves as a part of Africa.

[Incog B]

We are North Africa. Respect us and we respect you

[Omar Mtk]

@Милен Димитров sahara was moroccan since Almravid days 😂

[cbhorxo]

0:14 But Czechia IS landlocked!

[madjh]

Easy answer: They are main land, not colognies. They are consider like other cities in Spain. That is the diferent from that cities and Gibraltar for example, Gibraltar is a cologny .

[frige]

Oh ofcourse when spain does it it's not a colony when The UK does it then it's a colony Logic

[J Q]

You forgot ro say thar Brahim Ghali has spanish pasaport. Therefore he is spanish. This is from the time of Spanish Sahara befor Marroco conquere it.

[Patja]

I'm getting a huge dejavu and would have sworn you spoke about this before.

[Volodymyr Zablotsky]

The Romans fought hard, reconquering the city from the Vandals and holding off till 711! Would have been useful if they had it until 1453

[BLOS BLOS JR IN THE HOUSE]

Ceuta and Melilla are part of Spain many centuries before Morocco was even formed. The people there are actually the most pro Spanish and patriotic in the entire country. They are as Spanish as any other city in Spain and both have the possibility of becoming “comunidades autónomas” (the Spanish version of states in the USA however they have declined due to their small sizes, yet they are in no way what we consider colonies. They are integral cities to Spain.

[Mark Quinton]

Gibraltar is an integral part of the UK.

[Leonzo Suarez]

@Mark Quinton Gibraltar is not integral part if the UK because it is not politically equal to say Wales for example. That's the key difference. Gibraltar is more like Puerto Rico in that they are a colonial posesion since they don't form an integrated part of the country like the mainland. The case of Ceuta and Melilla is different because they are actually integrated into the mainland political system.

[Alvaro Hernani]

You have described it very well, they are fully integrated in the Spanish territory

[frank salz]

Bullshit muslims ruled spain for 800 years way before spain was called spain it was known as iberia and ruled by romans and germans muslims were the first to unite iberia into an asemblence of a country under 'Abd Rahman' who detached 'spain' away from the Abbasid Caliphate into a seperate country before that the concept of unity of spain was not imagined by people some went as far as saying portugal and naples was an integral part of spain no one percieved what and where the boundaries were but what set the motion and idea of 'Spain' being united was Abd Rahman who was the first to unite near entirety of iberia into 1 state ceuta and other enclaves have been ruled by spain for less than 400 years muslims ruled in Granada for 800 years the Kingdom of Granada has more right to exist

[Leonzo Suarez]

@frank salz that the heck you are smoking? First of all, the Romans called the Iberean peninsula Hispania, and it was one of the core Roman territories. The first to create the first Spanish state were the Goths; the Regnum Gothorum or Kingdom of the Goths. It was a Christian kingdom inhabited by Hispanoromans and Goths, who at this point were basically blond Romans since they only spoke Latin and knew, followed, and enforce Roman law. The Muslim invasion took advantage of the internal civil war. By the 700s, Hispania have been ruled by Romans and Romanised people for almost a milenum. The whole ideal of the Reconquista was the re-establishment of the Gothic Kingdom, and that included the reconquest of Vandal North Africa. The notion of Hispania is far older than the arrival of the Muslims. By your logic, modern day Morroco and Algeria have to be Christian Latin nations.

[Guilherme Idéias]

If france can have whole countries bigger than portugal in south america... why the fuss with ceuta ?