Why "Star Wars: The Clone Wars" Doesn't Fit In Legends | Part 2

[@ariesstorm9577]

“This time we’ll do it together.” “We already tried that last week.” “My powers have doubled since the last time we met Count.” “Really? After three years of level pegging you’ve all of a sudden gotten twice as powerful since last Tuesday?” “You fool! I have been trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku.” “Yeah, I already figured that out after the first, second or third time we duelled prior to this. This isn’t the first time we’ve crossed blades even though according to your statement it is.” Honestly how the writers overlooked so much is astonishing 😂

[@75JUNAKI]

Aries Storm Agreed plotholes in TCW

[@nihluxler8823]

They were so proud of all the times they pulled the « missed it by that much... » trick to prevent Grievous and Anakin from ever meeting face to face, because it was apparently such a big deal for ROTS continuity-wise, but they couldn’t be bothered to do the same for every other line of dialogue. It really comes off as window dressing.

[@jermo1470]

@@CygnusX1123 yeah we know that is were this entire video is about

[@tymgames8307]

@@CygnusX1123 it's sad for some fans but it's true. I feel like to realise that Dave Filoni is not better than Rian Johnson. Except for this part to please a lot of fans

[@tymgames8307]

@@CygnusX1123 maybe I enjoyed some stuff from Disney star wars but I care for the pre TCW and or Disney stuff more too

[@daklr2501]

tcw was fun, but it doesn't fit in legends, and i accept this. don't exactly understand why others don't

[@obitwokenobi9808]

Daklr Because it was around when Legends was still canon and some people consider it part of it since it pre-dates Disney. Also, some people grew up with it and they hate the Disney canon.

[@taylorbyrne1111]

Daklr same

[@KurokamiNajimi]

It's not that they don't accept it it's that this guy portrays that he doesn't even like TCW (yes I know he does like it)

[@inventorking9124]

I admit that removing TCW from legends would allow Disney’s canon to better stand out from legends, but with a few retcons, a lot of TCW stories actually could fit into legends: Major retcon 1: The TCW movie takes place 7 MONTHS after Geonosis. The 501st and 212th were one of the first and few units to adopt unique color schemes, a process that was gradual and not really completed until phase 2 was introduced. Generally, my idea is to move T-canon below L-canon. The New Mandos settled on another world, (maybe Kelvala) that they call New Mandalore, ignoring the surviving clans and vise versa, with Death Watch targeting them as a symbol of everything they hate, as opposed to disorganized clans of disgrunted warriors. Ahsoka was still framed and left, but another Jedi, instead of Bariss, was her close friend and the culprit. ARC Troopers were initially trained from birth, but as the war progresses, regular clones were trained to fulfill special ops roles. We already see this with the regular clones serving in Fordo’s squad, I think they should be called Beta-class ARC troopers. Most of the Padawan Anakin stories, since they all take place months apart anyway, could probably fit into the seven months between Geonosis and Christophsis. This would fit the development of the characters better: I have a hard time believing that Obi-Wan, deeply attuned to the galaxy’s life, flora, fauna, and sentients, believed that all clones were the same. After one month, though, I can buy it. The clones have names and personalities inn seven weeks? Naw. Seven Months working with Anakin and Obi-Wan? Sure. Anakin’s bond with Rex? Not after seven weeks. Seven Months? Absolutely. Regs were already portrayed as having names and personalities in the RC novels. The legends-retconned version of TCW would probably end with season 5, though, since both of Season 6’s best arcs don’t make sense for the lore. That being said, I do accept that in its complete, unreturned form, TCW doesn’t fit in the original lore. I’m only doing this because I enjoyed TCW, most of my least favorite parts of the story (b-serial Grievous) would be eliminated by putting L-canon first, and one of my favorite Star Wars novels is No Prisoners, which wouldn’t be canon in either timeline without TCW. I suppose I would accept a rewrite of that novel that removed/replaced Ahsoka’s role in the story with another character, replaced Rex’s past on Teth with Jabiiim, etc. Apart from that, I don’t really care about the rest of the TCW legends tie-ins, but for fans of those books, I think that something similar could be done for those books (Ex. Wild space, remove the tie in to the Lost Artoo storyline and have it be solely about Obi-Wan and Bail). I love TCW, but maybe it should be separate from the original clone wars depiction.

[@inventorking9124]

Sonymnms 52 It was already established that second and third gen clones had names in Labyrinth. The clones in the Republic Commando books are pretty much the same as TCW. Corr, a regular trooper, deserts alongside the commandos. He actually calls for the execution of the chancellor (albeit jokingly.) To be fair, he spent time with the Nulls and Omega Squad, but what’s the difference between that and working with a fiercely independent Jedi who constantly disobeys the council’s orders? Mandalorian Influence? Captain Rex’s jaig eyes. Those books already established that Kaminoans simply don’t understand human psychology, they can only engineer predispositions. The clones grew up in a conform or be killed environment, obviously they wouldn’t dare show their individuality. Just saying, that’s one point that is easily debunked. I’m starting to agree that TCW is Disney canon, not legends.

[@James-th2oo]

Here's one very critical thing you also missed. In Season 1, the episode "Grievous' lair", it is shown that General Grievous was a warrior that gradually replaced his own bodyparts with cybernetics. He, himself, calls them "upgrades" in the same episode. This is completely contradictory to the original Grievous backstory as a Kaleesh warrior that was crippled by Count Dooku, and forced into a cybernetic body by the Banking Clan in order to fight again.

[@75JUNAKI]

Robert Ortiz-Wilson agreed

[@ArcTrooper269]

@Robert Ortiz-Wilson RUIN ALMOST EVERYTHING OF EVERYONE

[@NobleRaider2747]

Well, the original Grievous backstory, most of it, got recanonized

[@chocov1233]

I thought that had to do with the unnecessary changes to his brain by Dooku and Palpatine. TCW did make him pretty lame though.

[@spideysg1163]

@@NobleRaider2747 nope

[@damianluna7700]

I know this video is 5 years old as of me typing this, But it's aged incredibly well because of how many people are starting to point out the gaping large flaws in the clone wars today. This video is more relevant now than ever.

[@dtxspeaks268]

Yea. It looks like the Gen Z kiddies who grew up with TCW are starting to mature and listen to the OGs for once

[@SolurVoludun]

@@dtxspeaks268even I who was 5 when Revenge of the Sith came out, had a very small knowledge of the EU. Barely any, though. When TCW came out and Ahsoka was introduced I felt some reluctance to accept her, but since I didn’t know any better I gaslighted myself into accepting her. But later, when my knowledge on the Expanded Universe got a little deeper, the cracks appeared, and know I fully reject TCW

[@clonetrooper2003]

@@SolurVoludun ditto. I like the show but its nothing speical

[@oldylad]

@@clonetrooper2003it’s mediocre and people like it because they watched it as a kid, it also does a lot of damage to the films if you know anything about them. I watched recently and I had to stop watching for months at a time to get all the way through, it’s one of the worst pieces of Star Wars meds I’ve consimes

[@tardarsauce3355]

Filoni’s ongoing disregard for canon must’ve made him a corporate nemesis to Leland Chee. Chee must be pulling his hair out whenever Filoni writes a new episode

[@Daniel_Huffman]

I kind of feel bad for Leeland Chee. He got a really cool job with a nice title, only to spend six years putting up with Filoni's antics, not to mention abusing George Lucas' authority to get around any of Chee's objections, only for the new leadership to nuke the EU and render all of his work meaningless while his colleagues blatantly antagonize its fans. Something tells me that his silence on the matter is not voluntary.

[@tardarsauce3355]

@@Daniel_Huffman Filoni and lucasfilm really know how to ruin a guy’s dream job

[@wadejesen7963]

Somehow I get the feeling that Chee wasn’t good at his one job.

[@tardarsauce3355]

@@wadejesen7963 I mean it’s possible but we can’t say for sure without any hard evidence. My first instinct is that Filoni wanted to do his own thing and he was able to do so because he was higher on the totem pole than Chee and because he had Lucas’s backing.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@Daniel_Huffman Who's antagonizing the fans? You think the sexist weirdos whining about "Disney and their evil SJW agenda" are real fans? Also, Lucas was gonna retcon the EU away with his version of the sequels

[@xYSarenArteriusxY]

I always knew TCW retconned things. But seeing the choping board diagram makes it a lot worse than I thought. I'm surprised there isn't a bigger movement for the removal of TCW from the Legends continuity

[@daklr2501]

exactly

[@rcbmmines4579]

xYSarenArteriusxY I hope the rest of the fan base see these videos so when Legends return as a Co equal canon (and at this point it will) they can eliminate TCW. Anyways this is good even for pro Disney canon fans since at least they finally have some good content exclusive to their continuity which they have none right now. Sure there’s Rogue One and Rebels but I’ll take Kyle Katarn and Galen Marek over both any day. Not even a competition really.

[@conradojavier7547]

xYSarenArteriusxY We already have a movement, their names are Down With Disney & it's Treatment of franchise & fans, & Anti Canon, Pro EU.

[@chadkingoffuckmountain970]

Conrado Javier Too bad that movement is full of jackasses who harassed that one actress into deleting their Instagram though

[@rcbmmines4579]

Captain Fordo IIRC it was never confirmed to be the reason for why she left Instagram but that was the story Lucasfilm and the mainstream media used to further highlight the fan base as “toxic”. Most critics of Rose criticize the character and how she was written and not Tere actress portraying her or her race. Heck most people praise her for doing what she can with it. Like with the rest of the film’s flaws, Rose is a bad character because of Rian Johnson’s writing and direction.

[@OGStarwars]

You not only show how much TCW breaks continuity - you show how much continuity the EU. Evident that George and his staff maintained a great timeline.

[@joeker5208]

Thank god it’s gone

[@kingorange7739]

@@joeker5208 um no

[@joeker5208]

@@kingorange7739 not taking it back. EU sucks

[@kingorange7739]

@@joeker5208 really. How does it suck?

[@joeker5208]

@@kingorange7739 really didn’t care any of storylines or depictions of the characters. Very boring and melodramatic

[@zandarmaver5569]

55:47 *whistles* would yah look at all that destruction. Jeez that's extensive. Most excellent work.

[@MattMelon519]

It's hilarious that at points it even contradicts the actual movies.

[@luckykennedy7364]

And this was a period when the films were finished. Old expanding universe offers when the films weren’t finished had the excuse of saying well we didn’t know what the fuck was gonna happen. TCW came years after leaving them with no goddamn excuse.

[@AshanBhatoa]

With Lucas supplied recontexualisation, yes.

[@ChosenOne-il4bm]

No IT does no the multimedia project does Grevious The sepratist being all evil The Jedi look like war mongers to many over powered characters dooku has to many dark side adepts

[@dtxspeaks268]

​@@ChosenOne-il4bmstill better than your TCW and other Filoni sewage. Hell I'd take the Clone Wars Multimedia Project over the actual Prequels themselves

[@dtxspeaks268]

​@@ChosenOne-il4bma lot of your Gen Z kids only love TCW because it's what you grew up with. Us OGs knew the show was a mediocre reboot

[@otamanvasyl9949]

I have found another inconsistency: In Expanded Universe Gardulla the Hutt was killed by Jango Fett. But in TCW she is alive.

[@SolurVoludun]

Exactly

[@barkley8285]

For those who just want a rundown of things changed: -Darth Maul -general grievous -asaajj Ventress -Quinlan vos -bariss offee -Anakin Skywalker -mandalore and it’s culture -dathomir and it’s culture -even piell death -adi Gallia death

[@AnimaVox_]

Count Dooku belongs on this list too.

[@dr.boring7022]

@@AnimaVox_ Im not familiar with EU Dooku. What major changes did he go through?

[@AnimaVox_]

@@dr.boring7022 Basically, the films and EU portrayed him as a bit more nuanced, someone who initially had his heart in the right place. TCW wrote him like a generic Saturday morning cartoon villain, he had no real depth.

[@dr.boring7022]

@@AnimaVox_ I mean, I can kind of see that one. In Episode 2, he was trying to be kind to Obiwan (or perhaps manipulative), but now he's in the middle of a war, so I can understand why he became more efficient and ruthless. Everyone else had pretty much unrealistic changes.

[@AnimaVox_]

@@dr.boring7022 Sure, to some extent Dooku was ruthless. However, he was never really Sidious-levels of ruthless, and he didn't have Sith eyes in the movies nor in the EU, to my knowledge. That's one of many inconsistencies in TCW regarding the films.

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

29:45 To add insult to injury, Eeth Koth had been kept alive after Order 66 in the Disney continuity, where he apparently, left the Order to become a priest and marry a Zabrak woman. Vader kills him, and his newborn daughter is taken by the Empire. Talk about shitty continuation....

[@VitorHunter12]

Barris Offee looks older like 24 yrs in Attack of the Clones already while she is like 16 yrs in TCW so yeah. Also i think the guys from Wookiepedia should move all of The Clone Wars stuff to the new canon pages already.

[@VitorHunter12]

Yeah sorry for my english, i'm gonna edit it.

[@alialramadhan4748]

@@VitorHunter12 i feel your pain

[@Tracer_Krieg]

Barriss was actual 21 by the time of RotS (18 at Geonosis), making her 4 years old than Ahsoka. That being said, she was consistently depicted, though not stated, to be Ahsoka's age.

[@jacktheflash8478]

VitorHunter well it exists in legends so they can’t

[@rcbmmines4579]

It is really annoying to see them still on the Legends pages especially now when it's completed in Canon. At the very least they kept the CWMP in the articles but I agree they should separate them eventually.

[@arrowheadwaterbottle6815]

Everytime I try and tell a TCW fanboy that the show doesn't fit in with legends I get insulted and any attempt to show them goes ignored.........

[@75JUNAKI]

Arrowhead Water Bottle Exactly

[@bionic-tale4313]

Too bad many people fail to see the points being made in the video..................

[@generalj216]

Why do we always have to insult each other with “fanboys”? Yeah we are fans and it’s fine.

[@dtxspeaks268]

​@@generalj216because TCW fanboys are just that- FANBOYS, with zero critical thinking skills or a willingness to listen to those with more experience

[@oldylad]

@@generalj216a fanboy is someone who religiously defends or consumes a piece of media while completely ignoring its flaws and jumping to insults the moment anyone criticizes their holy cow, a fan is someone who likes the media but is also capable of understanding its flaws and isn’t overly attached to it, hope this helps

[@aarondoesyt3194]

I've just learned a terrible truth, I think Dave Filoni is a Sith Lord

[@wadejesen7963]

A Sith Lord?

[@arkfounder7056]

He is a ritual accomplice that was set long before Star Wars was made.

[@ArcTrooper269]

​@@arkfounder7056a, yes, Key-giggling, the Filoni Crew's favorite way to hide the lack of competent writing

[@snake56]

6:08 This explains the crap that Filoni made with SW Rebels and also why Ahsoka is slowly turning into a Disney Princess.

[@tymgames8307]

Exactly

[@brndonlu9635]

Well not excatly.

[@strukacz5782]

@@brndonlu9635 i mean. Se is literally everywhere. I watched mando and there was ahsoka, we got season 7 full of ahsoka, i fü¢king opened my fridge, and there was AHSOKA.

[@sw3aty_forte]

@@strukacz5782 LOL

[@bluesaberproductions8991]

Wow. Shocking. I've long suspected that filoni was manipulative and deceitful towards George, but THIS! Deliberately concealing his plans to violate George's wishes? WOW.

[@eliroth9978]

Actually, Fordo didn't tell the whole truth. While the ending was changed from the original version, the original version simply had Ahsoka return to the temple rather than having her killed. Additionally, Filoni actually convinced Lucas that that ending would work best. The so called change that Filoni did behind Lucas's back was ending the episode with a fade out to the credits rather than a ring-out as to not comprimise the emotional weight.

[@bluesaberproductions8991]

I know that he was talking about the fade out. I'm not sure whether George accepted the change to Ahsoka's fate or whether filoni just stalled long enough to get lucky when disney rebooted the franchise.

[@eliroth9978]

George accepted the change because it worked well with the episode.

[@bluesaberproductions8991]

Did he? filoni slipped it behind his back. He admits to it. He deliberately didn't show it to him in the rough cut.

[@eliroth9978]

Again, the thing he changed was the transition to the credits. Thats not exactly a massive change.

[@Darksnovia]

Jesus I knew TCW contradicted the expanded universe and the movies but I never knew to this extent that it did wow.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

I didn't know either just how much material TCW contradicted. Maybe its for the best that TCW should just be ripped out of the Old EU timeline for good.

[@Darksnovia]

Tony Campuzzano the problem I have with TCW is Dave filoni had no respect for the source material that came before it including the movies. I can make an argument that TCW along with its sequel Rebels doesn't even fit with their own Canon either. Both shows to me are glorified fanfiction even though they're both better than the sequels and the spin-off movies that Disney has shit out it's still not saying much.

[@GuardianAngel871]

@@ironinquisitor3656 As a person that actually likes TCW for the most part, I really do have agree with this sentiment and just be very separate from the original EU timeline.

[@alialramadhan4748]

well we could say one of the few positives of tcw is that we have this great video

[@KurokamiNajimi]

Aside from it being implied Anakin hasn't faced Dooku how does TCW not fit with the ROTS film? That specifically fits much better with the film vs the novel where there's no damage control at all

[@jayyyymorris]

If I was going to have Ahsoka in TCWMMP I would've just kept Anakin a Padawan and then just have Ahsoka come on as a Padawan as well. They just become friends and comment, complain, critique, contemplate and hopefully learn from all their shared battles together. They develop a similar relationship to that of Obi-Wan and Anakin. This would've allowed Ahsoka to stay and still largely focus on the (in my opinion) better version of Anakin we got in the Legends EU. Even Ahsoka's specific story arc wouldn't even conflict that much. She would still get blamed for a bombing at the jedi temple, she's expelled and finally even though she's found not guilty she still leaves. Though obviously during all this, in the EU timeline, Anakin is very much away on the frontlines, but her story could still fit with some adjustments. Because of this, it could still be used as another factor for why Anakin chose the darkside. Because he saw all the hypocrisy the Jedi council were doing and Ahsoka was just another example of that. This is all my opinion of course :)

[@luckykennedy7364]

That is a very well thought out work around…it’s great

[@FMK03]

Ahsoka should've been Plo Koon's apprentice. She should've grown from her experinces, and learned from them. I highly recommend the channel I'mYourAlibi, as it exposes filoni's framing tricks. For example, countless times throughout TCW, both Anakin and Obi-Wan commit countless war crimes. However, they're always framed as heroic and not disrespectful to the sanctity of a ceasefire or pretending to surrender.

[@justinarzola4584]

​@@FMK03 I heard filoni wanted plo koon to be Ahsoka's master, George wanted her to be Anakin's.

[@FMK03]

@@justinarzola4584 Assuming this is true, Filoni is still to blame, given he was able to keep Ahsoka alive when George wanted her dead. If that is indeed true, then both Filoni and George are to blame. George for causing the logical fallacy/inconsistency and Filoni for agreeing to go along with the logical fallacy/inconsistency.

[@oldylad]

@@justinarzola4584George wanted Anakin to have a padawan who dies prior to episode 3 which isn’t that bad of a change

[@Jbush69]

That was a strong kid at the begining of the video. *DAMN*

[@zillafire101]

THat was a child Kyle Katarn.

[@timmartian9973]

I remember that narris offees character had always been in lego sets of episode 3 working with clones, then they say that she was let back in the jedi order. What?

[@ArcTrooper269]

There's also the fact that in CW 2003, Anakin & Padme CANNONICALLY concieve Luke & Leia RIGHT AFTER Anakin got his scar in the eye, (the show lefts it pretty clear through the shot & even Gendy confrims that in the DVD commentary) Yet in TCW Anakin has his scar SINCE EPISODE 1, 3 years before Episode 3 & Padme is completely fine & athletic while Anakin already has his skar Those 2 shows SIMPLY CANNOT GO TOE TO TOE

[@obitwokenobi9808]

Season 7 retconed the canon Ahsoka novel, FYI.

[@Actuallyfactually]

More logic why I’m drawing to Fordo’s statements

[@_draxin_0514]

Its ironic really, "lets retcon the entirety of forty years worth of worldbuilding and content just so we can make our own inconsistent mess of a timeline."

[@ariq4209]

It was released in 2016. S7 was planned wayy before the show got cancelled.

[@ibmm3358]

And the first scene for TBB recon the comics xd

[@Nebulasecura]

@@ariq4209 yes but why would they purposely approve the canon novel if they were working on season 7 when it clearly contradicts the novel

[@Aikurisu]

Seeing all this makes me think now the worst thing that ever happened to Star Wars was Dave Filoni himself...

[@KylePhantomK94]

And people actually want Filoni to take over Lucasfilm?

[@ironinquisitor3656]

I don't want Filoni to take over at all.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

+Latvian Dragon not me.

[@anon_laughing_man]

Dave Foloni is a hack. The Clone Wars sucks and takes a chain saw to not just the EU but also the main line G canon movies. Filoni is literally rewriting Star Wars in his image. The new Ahsoka show will do this even more.

[@mike16apha16]

THANK YOU! Barris Offee was utterly slaughtered in TCW!!!

[@jacktheflash8478]

Saberian Dream I understand jake skywalker but what’s with the other names?

[@mike16apha16]

@@jacktheflash8478 Barris Offee, Quilin Vos, and Grievous also got Jake Skywalkered

[@jacktheflash8478]

Hazama Terumi they didn’t well Vos sorta did but both versions of him are great at least

[@mike16apha16]

@@jacktheflash8478 beach bum vs super spy? TCW sucks at portraying Vos and he an needless cameo

[@jacktheflash8478]

Hazama Terumi personally I like both

[@ironinquisitor3656]

What's really funny is Pablo Hidalgo said to not believe anything he says or take it seriously on his twitter.

[@maleexile9053]

Ironinquisitor huh

[@azjedijack]

I think its best to not take seriously someone who publicly supported beheading rich people.

[@bionic-tale4313]

@Chosen One Why are you keep saying this when are debunk you on these claims?

[@azjedijack]

@Chosen one Roffman was close to lucas the whole time, lucas himself flip flopped a lot of the time so theres times he implied the eu was canon as many times as he supposedly said it didnt (those quotes are out of context anyway). And I believe the only reason Lucas conflicted at times is because when he wanted to make the prequels he wanted to tell his own story and not be beholden to other works but eventually found a way to create retcons around them. He even told them not to do stories other than totj set before episode iv because of this.

[@Daniel_Huffman]

Even if Hidalgo means it as a joke, he's still willfully spreading misinformation. If he really cared, he would take the time to debunk the misconceptions that he inadvertently(?) created.

[@sambascom2884]

One thing I have to say about the hierarchy of canon with TCW in the old Expanded Universe is that if TCW is going to remain in it, it should still have it's own hierarchy of T-Canon, but should be placed underneath S-Canon because it even was contradictory to some of the things in S-Canon. Placing it in S-Canon would still destroy parts of the EU.

[@bassmantjox1299]

I agree with you.

[@joshuafranklin9630]

​​@Chosen One watch his other video dude and touch some grass.

[@imyouralibi6208]

The amount of work that must have gone into this video genuinely scares me. I take my hat off to you, sir.

[@zacharymccants77]

Depa Billaba being the master of Kanan Jarrus also doesn’t make sense. I know that is established in Rebels and shown during The Bad Batch. However, it’s just another example of Filoni not caring about the EU. In Shatterpoint, Depa turns to the Dark Side and goes crazy, igniting part of her lightsaber into her head, which leaves her in a coma.

[@Wade_Tyler]

Kanan Jarrus is from the Disney canon timeline, not legends but yes, Filoni even screwed up his backstory with the bad batch!

[@AncestorEmpire1]

Part 4: Barry Allen: I ruined the timeline Lucasfilm under Kathleen and Dave: Hold our cosmopolitans

[@hungnguyenquang7247]

Good one's

[@Little-Dewott-2010]

Can't believe that Gwendolyn Christie made a misleading statement stating that her character Captain Phasma is the first leading female Star Wars villain in a film but we have that nightsister witch in the second Ewoks live action movie which is now Legends, Zamm Weasel in Star Wars Episode II Attack of the Clones, and Asajj Ventress in the Clone Wars movie which are both in the Disney canon.

[@GuardianAngel871]

There's also Kreia/Darth Traya in KOTOR II. At least in regards to major female SW villains.

[@PhotonTrooperGaming]

the saddest part is that Phasma was pretty useless after wall. Cool armor but in the end was a forgettable character.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@PhotonTrooperGaming her only point was Finn's development

[@katofdarkcrest]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 and there wasn't much of that(Finn's character development) in the trilogy he was relegated to comic relief and his one big D@m hero moment was stolen from him by the racist stereotype female asian bad driver

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@katofdarkcrest He would've died for nothing so that's fine. You didn't see the ship falling apart as he's heading into the weapon?

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Some things that I'd like to point out: 1) I think that the issues with characters from the films, especially with development, is that characters such as Anakin and Obi Wan are mostly their Revenge of the Sith version (especially in appearance, I'm not sure when Kenobi got on the council in TCW). 2) I've heard it mentioned that another planet that got messed up by TCW was Ryloth. 3) There are other Jedi were retconed to have survived the same Gunship crash that Eeth Koth, such as Sora Bulk from the Republic comics. 4) I think the only parts of the original Clone Wars and/or Labyrinth Of Evil that could survive are the parts of the Battle of Coruscant (perhaps the entirety of volume 3 of the original CW show or novel if season 7 doesn't fall into Legends). 5) Even if TCW was viewed in Legends as Galactic Republic or Galactic Empire propaganda is how some of the storylines would be shown (Mortis would have no place in either) and there'd be no way the Empire would show the Jedi in such a positive light as Palpatine was pushing for Jedi hatred even in the clone wars. It would at least give a reason why Anakin is so prominent as some of the battles could have happened (such as the ones that didn't do much to screw up the timeline outside of using certain characters) just with other Jedi being involved.

[@katofdarkcrest]

Yep Ryloth was a tidally locked planet in the EU. were the Twi'leks could only survive in caves that dotted the mountainous region betwixt the dayside and nightside of the planet

[@ltb1345]

It would've been Republic propaganda, not Imperial.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Even though I already did a video on this subject. You should do an entire video debunking the lie that "The Expanded Universe was "never" canon." counter with evidence it was canon.

[@iceomistar4302]

@@saberiandream316 Dave Filoni has made it clear he doesn't care for the old EU

[@ironinquisitor3656]

@@beanbunny607 I'll give his videos a chance when I have time. Listening to both sides is good.

[@bluesaberproductions8991]

I think TCW was meant to be part of the EU canon, but it has no priority over other EU works. Lucas himself said that TCW, like the EU, was NOT a part of the Star Wars saga, which only includes the 6 films. Which doesn't mean it wasn't canon but clearly makes a distinction. If TCW was canon, so was the EU. If the EU wasn't canon, neither was TCW. It doesn't make sense for disney to keep that one cartoon. "The epic itself (Star Wars) is basically about one man... The story about Anakin Skywalker and his fall into the dark side and redemption by his son, that's finished. It was started when he was 10, it ends when he died. There's no more story to tell. All that stuff is really not part of what this is." Also the article I found this in says that "Stylistically and tonally, however, the film almost takes place in AN ENTIRELY SEPARATE UNIVERSE, Lucas said, (emphasis added) likening the storytelling possibilities to the broad canvas 'World War II.'" www.mtv.com/…/star-wars-mastermind-george-lucas-exp…/ filoni has tried to build up a false identity by claiming TCW was the only non-film work Lucas approved of, and that he was George's right-hand man, but that really isn't the case. He disobeyed and contradicted George multiple times, and now in rebels he's going farther and farther from Lucas' vision; George wanted to kill off Ahsoka in TCW but filoni made her survive until after Endor! filoni was only one of many EU authors George worked with, and from filoni's interviews it's clear Lucas was no more involved with TCW than with other EU projects like The Force Unleashed and Shadows of the Empire: "The writers and I always try to keep in mind the big events in the Star Wars timeline and where those are at, and when we meet with George [Lucas] we kinda touch base as far as “Hey, we’d like to do this, and this would connect pretty directly with that,” so we get his sign off on all these kind of things, which is pretty fantastic for us, as we always know we’re going to work with what George intended. Right now, I have a really good idea of how everything fits together - I’ve been having meetings with George this week about some big overall story points, so it’s a really good time for us story-wise and we can really see a pretty complete picture of our series now." filoni was unbearably arrogant in claiming that he understood Star Wars and followed Lucas' vision while the EU authors did not. This was obviously not true as Lucas worked very closely with EU writers. It's like when Mara Jade lears she's only one of many Emperor's Hands; she thinks she's special and unique, but in reality is just one of many pawns. And notice how filoni says he's meeting with George "this week." That implies that this was a rare event. In the 2003 microseries Lucas met Tartovsky EVERY SUNDAY. And remember, Lucas killed off two major beloved characters- one of which was IN THE FILMS- in the NJO series, whereas in TCW he couldn't kill off one character that half the fandom hated because filoni loved his baby Ahsoka.

[@spideysg1163]

Half the fandom doesn’t hate Ahsoka you 🤡

[@Legomanarthur]

Wonderful video, absolutely wonderful. Thank you very much for your work. As you said, the fact that Filoni changed the events of the Clone Wars on purpose was probably for a total reboot of the EU, I thought the same thing wether it was secretly the goal or not. Long live the Legends Clone Wars, the true Clone Wars story.

[@yoshiplaysmc2163]

If you look at The Clone Wars on its own it’s pretty good. There are plenty of arcs that have good stories to tell, especially in the later seasons. I think the arc that is almost mandatory for Star Wars fans to watch is the very last arc of the show where Yoda learns to become a force ghost.

[@Legomanarthur]

The only arc I genuinely liked was the one on Umbara with Pong Krell betraying his troops, it's literally the only arc I have watched without having any negative feeling whatsoever. I've watched TCW only to see how different it was to the original story, and I would be lying if I said that I enjoyed it for the most part. Most episodes had me annoyed at the way characters were treated and how they always took the easy route narratively speaking - which is also something they have done with Rebels. But my dislike for this show is pretty biased since I can't get over the fact that it replaced and contradicted original story in pretty much every way, and to some extent the movies themselves.

[@yoshiplaysmc2163]

Legomanarthur I'm not a hardcore fan like many people here, but I do get why so many Legends fans would be really annoyed. As someone who know much of that content TCW created many stories that I really liked. My personal favorite is either The Battle of Umbara (which you mentioned), or the arc where Maul took over Mandalore. After listening to this entire video though it does make me think how much better the show could've been if Anakin was still a padawan and worked his way to become a knight through the series.

[@Legomanarthur]

I'm okay with people liking TCW, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that is perfectly fine with me. I grew up with the 2003 CW show and the Republic comics as my introduction to the Clone Wars and in a way the expanded universe. Some grew up with TCW or perhaps watched it first so I can understand why they would hold it in such high regard. My only wish is that more people would get to know what the Clone Wars was about before TCW. To me it is such a great and gritty story and I think it's really a shame that it has been completely shadowed by what I consider to be an inferior story, but it is my opinion. If you have never read any of the Dark Horse comics covering that period I highly recommend them to you. If you're interested in Anakin, the battle of Jabiim and his time with the Tusken Jedi A'Sharad Hett is a must read.

[@fjbz3737]

Legomanarthur I first watched the original trilogy when I was young and then the clone wars when it was coming out, I'm one of those TCW people you're talking about

[@SwfanredLotr]

Totally agreed with Barris Offee. For someone who hasn't read her novels yeg I felt that they treated her character very bad and the worst part is that her fate is still unknown without signs of a proper redemption.

[@wolfpredator1000]

Fantastic work, man! I'm eager to see you come up with a video this complex about the EU not only as official canon but also clarifying the "inconsistencies" haters love to point out over and over again. Always the same things with those guys.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Its always good to see people do this. I'm thinking about doing videos too very soon. This week I might record a video about proof the EU was canon and debunk that tired old Starlog quote people like to pull out and cherry pick (The one where George Lucas never says the word canon).

[@wolfpredator1000]

I hope to see that. It's funny because many times Lucas mentioned the EU as part of his saga in multiple interviews. Maybe they still can be linked.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Yep. in fact George Lucas stated the Eu was part of the story of the Star Wars Saga AKA the movies in the reprint of Splinter of The Mind's Eye. "After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story-however many films it took to tell-was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."

[@mariobadia4553]

Even though legends never was the official canon like you so elegantly say.

[@mariobadia4553]

@@ironinquisitor3656 www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/08/guest-editorial-did-george-lucas-consider-the-expanded-universe-canon.html/%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwiH0dOOlfXmAhVRwlkKHT7aBXEQFjALegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0yEZttF1LSMlOZSUqaq5yL&ampcf=1

[@Wade_Tyler]

I remember playing Elite Squadron on DS and wondering “Why is Dathomir green and not red, like in TCW?” Oh how clueless I was back then.

[@imyouralibi6208]

Bro, I feel you. TCW fans are a hopeless case 😂

[@wwmandalore]

What sucks is now Ahsoka is back working with Anakin and Obi-Wan and is basically a Jedi again. Couldn't commit to the bit, Filoni?

[@TurKlack]

@Asier Etxeberria Irastorza She never stopped veing a jedi. Don't be fooled by Filonis words. She leaves the temple, but that's about it.

[@2010SJohnny]

While I grew to despise TCW for destroying Previous Continuity in the EU, I believe TCW is fine within Disney Canon however, and considering I'm mostly now a fan of both Timelines, I can essentially love both The 2003 Clone Wars series and TCW.

[@Revali69]

@@beanbunny607 bruh no it’s more like Dave filoni’s fan fiction so it should be in Disney canon

[@sippeon9047]

@@Revali69 You could call any EU Star Wars material whether pre-Disney or not fanfiction if it isn't made by George himself though.

[@FMK03]

@@sippeon9047 That logic applies to filoni's work too.

[@sippeon9047]

@@FMK03 I never excluded Filoni's work on Star Wars from that idea.

[@whitecreamymilk8436]

@@sippeon9047 Lucas is a hack.. as proven by the shit he wrote and greenlighted.

[@noahfessenden6478]

You've twice described why I can't stand TCW. Now if only Dark Horse could write the comics again.

[@AshanBhatoa]

TCW, as a show is frankly quite amazing, however this show perhaps had an equal cause of destruction for an already rich and existent continuity.

[@MotherLover1984]

​ it's actually pretty standard, nothing special

[@alienmorality]

​@AshanBhatoa it's not that good a show it's somewhat enjoyable but it's severely lacking in writing quality

[@Jedi_Spartan]

TCW vs CWMMP seems like a Star Wars version of the Fall of Reach

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Also, what I hate about TCW Grevious is that he was captured by F*****G GUNGANS!

[@sebastianradoch8062]

I really liked The Clone Wars, at least the parts with massive clone action. I think from a visual and action standpoint TCW was good. But... BUT!! The Story was terrible. I loved the clones in the Republic Commando books, I loved how the Mandalorian culture was told and expended by Karen Traviss. It truly is a masterpiece and a very important addition to the Star Wars Lore. And TCW.. well pissed on that. As much as I loved TWC for seeing my beloved clones and Mandalorians in action I hated it ten times more for destroying the Mandalorian Culture and other established lore. So yeah, TCW should only belong to the Disney Canon, I don't really care about it to be honest and it should be banned from the *Original Canon* (I prefer that, "Legends' sounds insulting) Kandosi ner'vod, great job!

[@violentscorl697]

Sebastian Radoch Wow. You just put everything I had to say on the matter in words👌🏻 The EU will always be canon to me, and with it the real Mandalorians and clones. Ignore those osik‘la hypocritical glowstickswingers and screw whatever the hell the „new Mandalorians“ were supposed to be a million times. Oya Manda!

[@rcbmmines4579]

Sebastian Radoch I don’t like calling them “Legends” either but hey look at it this way, that’s them basically admitting these stories are far more legendary then most of what they do now.

[@inventorking9124]

(I agree that TCW doesn’t fit in legends, even if I love both it and the EU multimedia project). That being said, the portrayal of the clones in TCW isn’t that different from the way they are portrayed in Republic Commando. Traviss already established that they all have names and unique personalities, even the regular troopers. As for the apparent increased independence, in Order 66, Corr (possibly jokingly) proposed that they submit Palpatine and the Senate to a firing squad. To be fair, he spent years working in special forces with the Nulls, though. Mandalorian influence is still present, albeit only shown via kamas and jaig eyes.

[@mariobadia4553]

@@saberiandream316 you do realize they will not do anything with Legends? Disney will only focus on Canon materials. I mean the sequel series to Star Wars Rebels will release sometime this year

[@mariobadia4553]

@@saberiandream316 I like how you arrogantly say that people that like legends are the larger market when 90% of people who watch the movies have no clue what Legends even is nor do they care!

[@CanadianPale]

Ahsoka is basically a malignant tumour on the body of Star Wars continuity.

[@CanadianPale]

@@Stella-nx6sc Ahsoka is what happens when some random neckbeard gets a budget for his fan-fic OC.

[@BlyUehara37]

22:50 TCW cgi ruined Quinlan Vos for me From being an excellent and dark character he became just a simple buffoon without any relevance in TCW But well TCW fans defend this because they do not know anything about the original Quinlan Vos He was also the teacher of Aayla Secura she was a teenager/young woman in Legends while in TCW Aayla is already an older and more experienced Jedi master and has a cold attitude unlike her Legends counterpart So nope TCW cgi never respect anything from the EU but the funny thing is that Wookiepedia is still putting the whole TCW show as part of Legends

[@eliroth9978]

Read Dark Disciple if you want a darker Quinlon Vos. It's based off of an unmade clone wars arc.

[@BlyUehara37]

Cameron David is not the same Vos

[@BansheeNT-D]

And TCW turned Bly into a softy...

[@viljami.je.jaakkkola]

I would like to thank you for not only making me see how much TCW contradicts the rest of the old EU, but for also making me want to read the entirety of the Clone Wars multimedia project. Initially I only intended to read the Republic Commando books as part of my old EU readthrough, but now I am planning on reading all the Clone Wars multimedia novels and comics, or at least the ones that I can get my hands on. The story of Quinlan Vos seems particularly interesting.

[@darthlucasfuu]

Quinlan Vos was a so good character, with a so great story arc, you will not regret, promise! Read all the Republic comics, start in "Star Wars (1998)" ones, on Prelude to Rebellion arc, and read "Star Wars - Jedi Council: Acts of War" during the first arcs too (happened before episode I). After you get into the Clone Wars part, read "Star Wars Jedi" comic series (Mace Windu, Shaak Ti, Aayla Secura, Count Dooku and Yoda), and "Star Wars: Obsession", before episode III parts (Saleucami arc, for example). And bonus: "Star Wars - Clone Wars Adventures", a Clone Wars (2003) tied comics series.

[@endman105]

Hell, the changes TCW made to General Grievous to fit George's vision of the Kaleesh warlord that would itself be a part 3. An easy 45 minute part 3. Grievous in TCW feels no more smart than the Jedi he's facing, with episode 1 of the bad batch confirming that right after ROTS's beginning, he launches massive counter attacks all across the galaxy with whatever droid armies he can put together. Not something you would do unless it was quite literally a last ditch effort for him to escape unscathed. But he was already at utapou safe from the Republic. Why? Why waste the droid army when he even knows the clones can take out the droids fast? It makes no sense

[@ne3333t]

48:18 I'm pretty sure grievous' first appearance was in the Star Wars: Clone Wars miniseries... But, I completely agree with the video. Heh, I forgot you were Manda-Lore for a while there XD

[@ariesstorm9577]

TCW should have focused on Ahsoka Tano, going from a Youngling at the Temple and being thrust into the harsh reality of war as the Padawan of Plo Koon, forcing her to grow up quicker than most children. Don’t omit Anakin completely from the show, he can be a senior Padawan Ahsoka looks up to and idolises: he is the master she secretly wants. Captain Rex could be an ARC trooper that serves in Plo Koon’s 104th Battalion and second in command of the special forces unit The Wolfpack. Rex was originally a member of the Muunilinst 10 who was reassigned shortly after. While Plo and Commander Wolfe deal with the grander scale of the war, we would see a more personal view of the war through the eyes of Ahsoka and Rex who bond over the course of the series. Savage Opress is alluded to being the brother of Darth Maul and is a champion warrior of Mother Talzin’s secluded clan on Dathomir. Dooku goes to Dathomir to recruit more Nightsisters into his army but Talzin refuses, instead gifting him her champion and Savage becomes one of Dooku’s Dark Acolytes. Savage will be the primary villain antagonist of the series, at times using lesser villains for Ahsoka to overcome and develop while he too develops as a character. In this series Maul remains dead on Naboo. There are no inhibitor chips, Clones are simply bred to be completely obedient to any official order given to them. Only the ARC troopers and Commandos have free will; commanders are a grey area where they are less independent than the aforementioned clone trooper types but more so than the rank and file clones. Grievous can become less competent, but not as drastically as TCW portrays him to be. But enough that Dooku feels the need to train him in lightsaber combat in preparation for his “special mission” to Coruscant (as we see them doing in the original clone wars 2D series).

[@Actuallyfactually]

Wait so Rex is now an alpha class arc that means he can’t be on Genosis or the first battle at least

[@GuardianAngel871]

That's more or less how I would go about with certain characters of TCW in my personal canon along with other things that you mentioned.

[@ltb1345]

That's perfect.

[@FMK03]

How about this? Grievous can simply have already been merely familiar with lightsaber combat and is a bit of a natural at it.

[@DarthBalsamic]

The Asokha portion was interesting to me in that after going through Legends and watching TCW for the first time, her character made no sense to me. Among many aspects of TCW that I didn't like, though it had it's good points here and there, her character was one of them. She read as a totem character for Anakin and nothing more. I actually though even her character development was meaningless. I simply got nothing out of that and knew it was going nowhere. With this video this also confirms, among many examples I can cite, that Asokha was indeed another giant sjw cash grab and nothing more. Disney seems to be doing alot of these cash grab placement characters(cough Baby Yoda cough). Us Legends fans can spot it immediately because it never makes sense, particularly when they shoehorn and parlay the characters into other stories, which is why I despised Rebels to the point where I couldn't watch it at all anymore and skipped the last 2 seasons completely; all while debuting goofy products from folks like the voice actor of Asokha who clearly knows nothing about Star Wars. I still get upset every time I hear that talking point where they say Star Wars has no prominent female characters. That usually exposes a fraud right there and they don't even know it. At this point, I'm just aggravated with this debauchery because it all just reads as a gigantic cash grab at the expense of the Legends universe which was far better and substantive. It's a middle finger to us EU guys.

[@ironinquisitor3656]

Get ready for comments from TCW fanboys and EU haters.

[@fjbz3737]

Ironinquisitor Why can't people like hem both?

[@taylorbyrne1111]

I love TCW but this video is true

[@RiverOfBlacklights]

Ironinquisitor Guess which show is back from the "dead"? I guess Di$ney and Kennedyfilm are desperate to make some $$$ so they pulled an Abrams and are now re-hashing TCW as their "new" show... *_AGAIN..._*

[@ironinquisitor3656]

+River of Blacklights Makes sense considering the fiasco with TLJ and Solo. Honestly (Even though I prefer the old 2003 clone wars and the multimedia project) I'm kind of exciting we might actually get some good Star Wars content with new TCW episodes. I think this is a sign we could see Legends potentially continued as well. Who knows we'll see what happens.

[@RamallaRed]

Ironinquisitor #IroninquisitorIsIdiot

[@daklr2501]

>new legends timeline officially announced by disney >it continues along the politically forced path of disney starwars >mfw

[@galaxies101]

Yeah, that's why the Give Us Legends movement is a hopeless endeavor lol

[@bluesaberproductions8991]

You lost me at 31:18. No one was planning for the reboot in 2008. It took everyone- including George and the EU authors- by surprise. It would not have happened if disney hadn't taken over. No new "story group" would be formed, no more future movies made, nothing. I do agree that there was a conspiracy here. filoni was actively trying to undermine the EU, but it was for his own selfish reasons. His image is based on the illusion he's created of being George's right-hand man and disciple. The "EU-was-ever-canon" movement had already begun to emphasize the idea that George considered only the 6 films canon, so Dave Filoni convinced everyone that TCW, unlike the EU, was "canon." TO prove that he, unlike the EU authors, was working in line with George's vision, he created pointless retcons just to prove he could, and attributing them to George. Contrary to popular belief, George did not consider TCW to be any higher in canon status than the EU; in his interviews, he said it was not part of his saga, using the same wording so often cited to denounce the EU as non-canon in his other interviews. There is no reason to believe he considered TCW any higher than, say, the Force Unleashed, but filoni fed on people's ignorance, and now you've got people begging him to make a new movie, insisting that he's trying to undermine disney from within, saying that he and only he understands Star Wars and George Lucas. It's a lie, and it's built on a more dangerous lie: that the EU was never canon for George. All these retcons can be traced to that source or to George's ignorance, which filoni took advantage of to produce MORE retcons. As you have pointed out, dave filoni and his fans have greatly exaggerated Lucas' involvement in TCW.

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

42:46 I'm afraid not. Shatterpoint has been LONG retconned since Rebels' first airing. Instead of falling to a coma due to Dark Side corruption, Depa Billaba has fallen into a coma after an attack by Grievous, only to wake up and take Kanan Jarrus (Caleb Dume) as her Padawan, until Order 66.

[@Terencedesouza3651]

Support the legends, they are the true Canon

[@humannerd26]

56:07 that's actually sad. So many story-line's and Arcs gone. I only started looking into the multi-media project a couple of months ago (i never really got into legend except for battle front 2, jedi star fighter and star wars clone wars)i did grow up watching TCW and i was so confused about Anakin. in star wars clone wars he doesn't listen to obi wan and chases after ventress anyways. he gets mad at him. Then OOPS never mind he's responsible enough to have his own student. Dave Filoni is a good writer i won't lie, but if he made TCW a CGI animated version of the multimedia project and had his own episodes with Ahsoka squeezed into the background of arcs it could've worked and still had new fans see a new character and the old fans who didn't care about her could ignore the episodes she was in and still have the same enjoyment.

[@ArcTrooper269]

FUN FACT, IRWIN DAYAÁN (LATINO VOICE OF ANAKIN) HATE TCW & IS PRO-LEGENDS MOVEMENT

[@75JUNAKI]

Awesome but wait I’m new to SW since 1/2018 so what medium (misspelling) did he voice Anakin?

[@ArcTrooper269]

@@75JUNAKI EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE PREQUELS, THE OG 2003 SERIES, FEW MOBILE GAMES & BATTLEFRONT, *HE WAS FIRED FROM STUDIO ACUSTICO(DISNEY'S DUB STUDIO IN MEXICO) SO HE ISN'T ANYMORE THE VOICE OF ANAKIN IN REBELS, FORCES OF DESITINY, EA BATTLEFRONT & TCW 2008* _THAT MAN IS A LEGEND_

[@spartacus936]

Tío, he intentado buscar información sobre lo que dijiste sobre el actor de doblaje latino de Anakin, pero no encontré nada al respecto. ¿Cuáles son tus fuentes? PD: Últimamente te estoy encontrando en los comentarios bajo muchos vídeos. ¿Coincidencia? XD

[@ArcTrooper269]

@spartacus936 Fijate que ya borró los videos, pero hace algún tiempo había subido fandubs a su twitter de Anakin insultando a Disney & a las secuelas, sospecho que son de la época que le habían quitado al personaje (que fue cuando Carlo Vazquez comenzó a doblar a Anakin), pero viendo que no solo borró sus esos videos, sino que además sí participó en TCW s7, Ahsoka & Tales of Jedi, probablemente ya no comparta ése pensamiento & mi comentario envejeció del asco

[@BigAl4244]

I can agree TCW shouldn't be apart of the Legends Timeliene. That being said, I think it still gives a good perspective of how the Clone Wars took place and the events between II and III . After all, George did have some input on the creative aspects. This was also before they were sold to Disney it's not as kiddish or Disney as you think. Filoni definitely did some harm to the EU with TCW though. More than i realized after watching this.

[@pablocardoso7830]

I was there when TCW began, and even then I told myself "This can't fit".

[@obitwokenobi9808]

I thought Matt Wilkins wasn't very fond of TCW. He said himself, "I kinda didn't like The Clone Wars."

[@rcbmmines4579]

Meme Guy he wasn’t. He favored the Tartakovsky show and the rest of the CWMP.

[@obitwokenobi9808]

RCBM Mines And yet this guy is saying, "He's a fan of TCW." 3:55 to be exact and even says so in the captions. Unless my eyes and ears are deceiving me, I'm sure that's what he said. I'm sure this is just a mistake on his part, maybe he meant to say, "Isn't" but I was sitting here like, "wtf?"

[@rcbmmines4579]

Meme Guy He probably meant he liked it but not as much as the Tartakovsky show to establish that he’s watched both. He actually used his video as a source in the last one as it had a lot of good criticisms of TCW.

[@ThRvnchst]

Matt has said he's mostly 50/50 on it.

[@ThRvnchst]

@@saberiandream316 Well... I'd love to, but I'm in a bit of a situation at the moment. Just a couple days ago, a guy I had an argument with falsely reported my account and got it temporarily disabled. Currently trying to get it back-I'll let you know when I do. In the meantime, if you need any info, just let me know here I guess.

[@JamesA4]

Fantastic video! I loved old EU Star Wars. Star Wars is finished, to me it ended 13 years ago with Revenge of the Sith in 2005. I gave the Disney stuff a try but I can't enjoy it at all. Thanks for keeping authentic Star Wars alive.

[@davidrooker1200]

you are a fanboy

[@AzureKnight2]

Yeah, there's a lot of good post-RotJ and old Republic stuff released in the EU after Revenge of the Sith. While I get behind your sentiment, there's still good EU stuff out there. :)

[@christsabakalos2594]

@@saberiandream316 Agree. I am curently reading them and I cant get enough of them

[@ltb1345]

@@AzureKnight2 Yeah.

[@delta2372]

I am extremely late here but the old EU material feels more mature than what we are getting now from disney, and every time I try to bring this up with my friends how filoni is a hack and this show is what helped to nuke the entire EU I get the usual "filoni is a huge EU fan he tried to save as much as he could before Kennedy and disney axed it!"

[@irvingramirez2335]

Starting to feel Dave did this out of spite

[@Ssethtzeentach_enjoyer]

After watching these videos, it makes sense that his intentions are bad, but I don't understand what happened to him that caused his intentions to go negative.

[@talonnewton5486]

37:58 TCW had a weird promotion system with arc troopers. With domino squad we saw them as the arc squad in training in their backstory episode. There is a group of arc troopers over saying their final test mentioning that these are going to be the next generation of arc trooper But then the show depicted them as “Regs” meaning that in TCW cannon they aren’t immediately deployed as ARC troopers but the ARC trooper program is more of a career track where they won on field experience before getting the promotion I guess? Like I said It’s weird and would make more sense with a human military rather than a clone one.

[@gabethebabe3337]

The propaganda explanation is good because it also could be used to explain inhibitor chips. They never existed. Palpatine simply made up the idea to help explain why the clones killed ALL Jedi seemingly on a whim because 4 Jedi attacked him. The chips make the clones appear as friendly heroes in universe, but in reality they simply followed orders with no question.

[@timmartian9973]

republic commando is my favorite of the legends I got plagueis to read now!!!!!

[@SkyStarNova]

Hard core research bro. I never cared for the Prequels Era stuff, but if the CW Multimedia Project works within the Original Canon, then TCW goes. Disney can keep it for all I care. After all, we fans make our own canon, when we choose what to buy and support, not New Lucasfilm nor Disney, only us. Long Live Real Star Wars! Long Live Legacy!

[@SkyStarNova]

@Asier Etxeberria Irastorza Yes I do.

[@SkyStarNova]

@Asier Etxeberria Irastorza Enjoy it then. I just don't support plagiarized, cheap rip offs.

[@SkyStarNova]

@Asier Etxeberria Irastorza Whats a rip off to me? What Disney does, that's a rip off to me. From the very start that's what they've done and will continue to do. Specially with Star Wars.

[@SkyStarNova]

@Asier Etxeberria Irastorza They are. Thats a fact. You can like then all you want, thats ok. I just happen to know my star Wars and what KKfilms/Disney does is not it. You want specifics? Here you go. The Farce Awakens itself is a rip off of the Thrawn Trilogy plot, with the story structure of ANH and plagiarized characters from the Legacy Vol.2 series. Kylo Ren is a cheap rip off of Jacen, but the rest of the characters are from the Legacy Vol. 2 series. Rey has the scavenger job of Legacy Vol. 2 main character, Ania. while Jyn Erzo from Rogue One has the rest of Ania's characteristics.

[@SkyStarNova]

​@Asier Etxeberria Irastorza You are right with that, Lucas himself is to blame for this screw up. He started it with his "Special Editions". I remember Kybo, the fat, bad guy. Jyn Erso having Jan Ors aspects are just a result that Rogue One is a somewhat retelling of the same events as Dark Forces. I personally love Rogue One. Though not original at all, its execution was acceptable, quite a lucky shot. If you haven't read the Thrawn Trilogy you dont know why TFA rips off its plot. Yes, it features the OT characters but the time period and execution is logical and makes sense, TFA does not. Obviously you haven't read Legacy Vol. 2 either, or you would know explicitly why TFA has cheap versions of its characters and ideas.

[@anotherperson6146]

That Bariss thing drove me nuts.

[@jankrizkovsky9446]

I started reading clone wars comics (From SW: Republic) and it's a f@ing awesome! :D Every time I pick some random Dark Horse comics Star Wars book, It's so good. It's sad to me, that they threw it away and disregards it now. They could've done so much with it if they continued.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

I really like that holofilm theory idea! Especially considering one legends story were there was this fake actor thst played obiwan to trick Luke this one time. It would make sense to show the separatist as super incompetent, when actually their army was made of ruthless murder machines and nigh unstoppable war lords. The Mortis ark could show a misconstrued perspective on how the force works to the public (though all thr scenes with future vision would need some explaining. Nit the first time media has predicted the future but still ) at the end of the day keeping them completely separate and continuing is the best option though.

[@inventorking9124]

I would go with a cross between the S-canon and the COMPNOR explanation: Here’s my retcon: All of the characters in TCW actually existed in legends, but any events that contradict the EU that occurred were COMPNOR messing with the records, so the story’s accuracy could be labeled as questionable. Ahsoka Tano was an actual padawan framed by the Jedi council, but she wasn’t Anakin’s padawan, maybe she was Plo Koon’s instead. This opens the door for a whole new wave of CW stories pertaining to TCW’s characters. Plus, this way, non of the TCW EU stories have to be disregarded. Any contradictions could just be written off as COMPNOR tampering, while stuff that does fit could have actually happened. There we go, TCW fits legends without actually messing anything up.

[@psgaming101craup4]

If lucas films were smart as you mate.

[@inventorking9124]

Further adding to this, maybe stories that don’t directly reference the EU, like Clone Wars: Wild Space, the junior novels, or the TCW comics, could be completely absorbed into the Disney Canon, while stuff that does, like Clone Wars: No Prisoners, could be S-canon, with the COMPNOR explanation accounting for any variance.

[@vr5076]

You know, considering that TCW depicted the Mandalorians only as humans with blonde hair and blue eyes, a COMPNOR explanation could be given as an example of the Empire's specieism. But I don't know how one would explain how TCW's Mandalorians have only the said physical traits since there wasn't much "racism" within human cultures depicted in Star Wars.

[@weegee_darthno4045]

The COMPNOR solution honestly fits perfectly

[@inventorking9124]

​@@DIEGhostfish Yeah, if I were to make one mega-timeline combining the best from Legends and Canon, I'd extend the clone wars era for another couple of years, allowing a bloc within which TCW could have taken place. I love TCW, and I love Ahsoka and her bond with Anakin, I just agree that the show doesn't really fit in Legends.

[@loganberlew3191]

I’m a fan of TCW but here is my rule of thumb, when there is a serious conflict between TCW and somthing else, I follow pre established lore, I tend to use some of the info in the COMPNOR, for things like Galia’s death, but I pretty much follow pre existing canon, bc I love Legends way more then TCW

[@scottishsocilast5310]

Wish there was timeline without the TCW it does not fit inside the EU and that’s ok just have 2 sperate universes I’ll enjoy both.

[@Tracer_Krieg]

I have to disagree on one specific point. Lucas *was not* involved with the Holiday Special. According to J.W. Rinzler, "Everybody agreed that a television special was a good idea." Lucas was busy moving his production company to a new location, which was not heavily involved in the special. This is why the Holiday Special was what it was; it was given to TV people who had to make up shit because Lucas and Kurtz were not involved with the finished product in any meaningful capacity. As Kurtz himself stated: "It did start out to be a lot better [with a different script]. We had half a dozen meetings with the TV company that was making it. In the end, because of work on promoting Star Wars and working on the next film, we realized we had no time. So we just left it to them and just had the occasional meetings with them, provided them with access to props and the actors, and that was it."

[@Delta-es1lg]

I grew up more with TCW as opposed to the multimedia project, and I always kinda assumed that while TCW overwrote *some* of the old Clone Wars lore, it still *mostly* fit (my impression of old clone wars lore was pretty much Battlefront 2 and the prequel movies, so you may understand how I came to that conclusion) and so it was okay to stay in legends. But as Disney's Star Wars continues to self destruct, I've become more interested in the Legends timeline through fanworks and some of the older games, and videos like this only make me more intrigued. Seeing how much lore TCW retconned and contradicted really came as a shock. I like TCW, but I don't see it as nearly as much of a pillar of Star Wars as I used too (It has good moments, but it's not nearly as good as some people say.) These videos and your one about the "Truth about the EU" really opened my eyes a bit to how much I didn't know about Star Wars before the Disney buyout, and I do kinda hope that Disney does let people publish stories in Legends again, although I doubt that will happen. I definitely will be looking further into the Clone Wars multimedia project and the EU in general, and your videos have been a great push in that direction, so thank you!

[@DIEGhostfish]

17:58 It's actually hard for me to remember too many major battles in TCW as far as the Repbulic winning a victory and the planet changing hands. Cristophsis, Neo-Ryloth, Neo-Mandalore, Lemur World (But the CIS had actually just won a different battle in the beginning of the Lemur episode), Rodia, Zygerra, and Onderon, plus a rematch on Geonosis. That's not many worlds

[@SwfanredLotr]

I remembered that they conquered Felucia at the beginning of season 2.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@SwfanredLotr THat changed hands a few times didn't it?

[@maverickay5807]

I agree with everything you had to say in your part one video, I am a huge fan of the Clone Wars multimedia project, and I can't wait to sit back and watch part 2 as you don't and do some of my favorite Star Wars lore!

[@wyattstudios21]

I have a friend who believes that Thrawn debuted in rebels.

[@SolurVoludun]

Talk about illiteracy

[@wyattstudios21]

@ IKR he’s a Disney consumer

[@ArcTrooper269]

@@wyattstudios21 sure you want to keep him as a friend? beacuse Disney is not particulary a thing that's worth to support

[@mike16apha16]

O_o holy crap, TCW even takes a massive dumb on the movies as well!

[@markotinio4338]

Yes please make an hour-long video dedicated to debunking myths about the EU (such as that it was never considered canon, had no continuity whatsoever, etc)

[@ironinquisitor3656]

he needs to do that and debunk that tired old Starlog quote where George Lucas never even said the word canon.

[@RiverOfBlacklights]

Someone else already did that on a video called, *_'Old Star Wars EU wasn't canon... Lol wut'_* which I advise every EU fan and EU hater to check out. It's probably the best video here on KZbin at the moment that proves the entire EU *_WAS_* canon up until April 25, 2014. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJacXpSum9OApa8 Still, it would never hurt to have another video to reinforce that one. Anything to finally shut up uninformed EU haters and their "half-truths", invalid Lucas "quotes" and flaccid opinions which they always *_TRY_* to pass of as "facts"...

[@ironinquisitor3656]

+River of Blacklights I agree. I also recorded a video proving the EU was canon and I might post it sometime soon. Its also a response to Hellogreedo's bullshit video and a response to some guy named Brian Young claiming "the EU was never canon" based on that cherry picked misinterpreted Starlog quote.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@ironinquisitor3656 Damn someone's butthurt

[@ironinquisitor3656]

@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 And?

[@taunttitan1714]

Oh my God Yes That's exactly what TCW is Propaganda HoloDrama's created by the Empire whereas The Clone Wars Multi Media project is what's really happening

[@SolurVoludun]

Exactly

[@tychoordo3753]

Problem with the Republic Propaganda theory is that TCW contains references to events not publicly known like Anakins marriage. And the COMPNOR explanation falls flat on it's face since it openly portrays the Palpatine as evil.

[@kingorange7739]

It could be New Republic propaganda to help explain why the overthrow of the Empire was needed and how democracy should be restored. With the Jedi and pro democracy people being portrayed as mostly purely good and basically blame everything that went wrong on the Sith and power hungry officers that got a bad reputation during the Imperial era like Tarkin for example

[@theunknownuser9609]

@@kingorange7739 Ahsokas's last arc on Season 5 was quite critical of the Jedi. Same with the Martez Sisters arc.

[@kingorange7739]

@@theunknownuser9609 not necessarily. Season 5 highlighted a mistake that was carried out due to one of them going rogue. As for season 7, it could be used as simply a platform of how the war was preventing the Jedi from helping everyone. Basically another way to demonize Palpatine

[@theunknownuser9609]

@@kingorange7739 It's more than highlighting a mistake. If anything, that mistake hightlighted the problems of the Order. You have Mace Windu already with his mind made up that Ahsoka is guilty once the trial begins. It shows the Coruscant people in front of the Jedi Temple protesting against the war while also showing you the discontent of the people in the most disfavored part of Coruscant in the form of Letta Turmond's character. Not to mention the "Hero"s On Both Sides" episode and the Onderon arc where the Jedi basically aid terrorists and do mental gymnastics to justify it by saying they're "revolutionaries".

[@kingorange7739]

@@theunknownuser9609 the onderorn arc goes out of their way to show it wasn’t aiding terrorists. Literally they were built as rebels and basically operating in the same kind of manner as the Rebel Alliance. As for season 5 as I mentioned before, they couldn’t pretend citizens weren’t getting discruntled by the war. But it goes out of its way to highlight that the Sith was to blame, not the Jedi. While I would agree it doesn’t design itself for the Jedi to make the right decisions all the time, it does paint it to make clear that the Jedi were not at fault.

[@AhsokaFanboy1138]

9:47 There were several stories that thought there were only three million clones in the whole war, as well. Mundi returns from Hypori, the conversation goes from his report to how Jedi, specifically Anakin, should be promoted early to replace their losses, and his knighting takes place two years later? Obi-Wan fights Durge on Muunilinst, where he's a silent slasher villain, and in litterally all of Durge's other stories, he's a jabbering madman who never stops talking. Also, did Grievous kill an Ithorian and Talz with his four arms trick to capture Palpatine, or did he kill an Ithorian, Talz, Twi'lek, and Human by activating a set of repulsorlifts hidden in his legs? And while that was going on, was Anakin wrecking a Techno Union lab, or chasing Dooku through an abandoned corporate complex? 12:17 So, Ventress's master traveled the galaxy. A Yuzzum, a stone age race from Endor, wound up in Jabba's Palace on Tatooine in ROTJ as a singer. 15:05 Is there some rule every young future famous person must appear in a story? 16:52 The Republic loses plenty in TCW. Abregado Rae, where Plo Koon's fleet is destroyed, is a core world. There are plenty of battles on Devaron, a Core or Colonies world. Also, the Outer Rim is the franchise's favorite place. 17:10 Which makes no sense. 18:03 Which is how pretty much every hero thinks the war is going in universe, regardless of timeline. 22:59 Which doesn't flow with looking like a surfer dude, which is why I never took his stories seriously. Good thing that TCW ran with his appearance reflecting his character. 24:48 Because adult actors never play teenagers, which means that, because her actress in AOTC is older than Hayden, she's older than Anakin. Oh wait, that happens all the time. 30:24 I read the sourcebook that said Eeth Koth died at Geonosis. It said he died along with Sora Bulq when their shuttle exploded. And yet, all of Bulq's stories take place afterward. As for Jango not being a Mandalorian, one bureaucrat angrily denying something to a nosy outsider, right after denying there is a problem, shortly before his boss admits there is a problem, doesn't decanonize Jango's Mandalorian status. It just means there are some people who dislike Jango. Similarly, Grievous claiming he chose the cybernetic alteration as opposed to accept it in desperation is just him angry at the implication his doctor made.

[@damienlarson4145]

much like darth maul being alive makes no sense, i think the idea of anakin being a jedi knight in the beginning of the war makes no sense either.

[@75JUNAKI]

Damien Larson Yee

[@aznsbd]

Kenobi: How is it that we can be winning every battle but still be losing the war? Rob Stark: Hold my beer.

[@AlOstosman]

This video, part 1 and the comments in support of you have ALL aged like thousands of years old Babylonian Fine Wine At this point, filoni is even contradicting the things of the newest canon, even some he himswlf wrote XD

[@ArcTrooper269]

The dude & his crew can't keep their own contunuity even when LITTERALLY their lives depend on it

[@AzureKnight2]

Also, with the Medstar Duology gone, that hurts the Coruscant Nights Trilogy and The Last Jedi (the novel, not Rian Johnson's godawful movie). And I always knew in my head i had to treat TCW as quasi-canon because of the lore breaking, and some just dumb decisions, I never knew it was this bad. Thanks for laying it out.

[@anthimetardif9627]

That video was incredible, I don't see how anybody could disagree with you after watching it

[@lolmuffins1]

At least the new filoni wars season can't ruin the EU any more.

[@cptace]

Dang, I'm late to the party!! You did an excellent job man. I'm a TCW and a Dave Filoni fan, but I never thought it was compatible with the EU. After hearing this thorough breakdown though, I am honestly disappointed in Filoni. I will definitely be looking into the EU now.

[@bluesaberproductions8991]

Also, I wonder if it should be considered S-canon. Maybe it's not so much a part of the canon, but a kid-friendly portrayal loosely tied to actual events in the conflict. For example, the Mon Calamari arc was loosely based on events that were already a part of the Clone Wars timeline (we saw Kit Fisto leading Mon Cals against Quarren in the microseries) but they made sure it included all the main characters in the series and they added in some plot that seemed kiddish. Consider this quote from filoni himself: "I personally as a fan never think of it as discrediting any of the other material, it's just that other material is from a different point of view, a different look at the war and take on the war. It's an ever-Expanding Universe in a lot of ways."

[@ironinquisitor3656]

I agree that TCW should be S-canon.

[@eliroth9978]

Bluesaber Productions TCW battle of Mon Cala was a lot more violent than the one in the 2003 show. It involves much more death and even includes a character's head being blown off with his bloody remains shown sinking in the water

[@bluesaberproductions8991]

I meant kiddish in the sense that all the main characters happen to be there and there's a kid-friendly moral theme. Nothing wrong with that, but it seems targeted towards that audience. Of course it's violent, but how can you not consider arcs like the Droid Squad kid friendly? Not that the show is all a kids' show, but it's not an adult show either.

[@eliroth9978]

The shows target audiance was around 9-14. And it wasnt even intended to go onto cartoon network, it was intended for fox.

[@bluesaberproductions8991]

There's no problem with a show being targeted towards kids. I just think it's overrated compared to the rest of the EU

[@somethingwithultra7231]

To be honest, the thing is if they didn't wanna pull a weird shofty marketing ploy for TCW with Ahsoka. They could have easily done something that the Republic comics did to an extent, being the introduction of new Jedi Knights through pairing them up with characters that have already been established. There they maybe could've had her somewhat befriend Anakin at least, I doubt to the weird insane extent they went into for TCW (to where they're seeing each other as siblings). But with how unlenient the council was towards Anakin going on missions alone, could have had it work into Palpatine's schemes to exploit that in some way. Maybe similar to that Jedi Master who's force was bombarded due to him wanting to test Palpatine's midichlorian count. Would have had her serve her purpose while tying up a lose end & potentially serve as a piece of development for ROTS. Also on another note, it feels kind of weird how Ahsoka almost seems to be like a replacement version for Aayla Secura. Who was also a popular character from the CWMMP v and made a cameo in the films after first appearing, but at least got an appropriate loose end in G-canon. Whereas Ahsoka is literally alive in what would be Luke's jedi new order for Legends, and actually kind of should be if they're really saying TCW is canon to Legends as well.

[@brandonframe1743]

Pretty much TCW isn't legends or canon; its Fanfiction

[@75JUNAKI]

Ashire MGTOW no it's Disney cannon

[@ArcTrooper269]

@Holy Emperor Souther AGREE, BROTHER

[@Doombringer_r]

@Holy Emperor Souther Fits perfectly into Disney Canon with that then

[@Doombringer_r]

@Holy Emperor Souther is that a fucking gif

[@bionic-tale4313]

Well its still a great show, but I can admit it can't fit in legends. I wish more people would see that, but unfortunately they can't because they cannot admit it too themselves, because they grew up with the show.

[@iJosh64]

I believe they meant to fit it into Legends, but as you said, a square peg can't go in a round hole.

[@Rhys-Lightning]

"TCW is Republic propaganda". I REALLY like that explanation and it totally works

[@spartacus936]

I have created a new theory to explain the existence of TCW and make it fit in the Expanded Universe without contradicting anything. The Propaganda theory makes no sense, because in TCW Order 66 is not represented as a good thing and in the series it is also very clear that Palpatine is the Sith Lord. So, the series cannot be Republic propaganda, because the Republic under Palpatine’s control would never have represented these things. I have created a theory that makes much more sense and that can explain not only the existence of TCW, but also the existence of Rebels, The Bad Batch, The Mandalorian and Rogue One. My theory is very simple: TCW, The Bad Batch, Rebels, Rogue One and The Mandalorian are TV series and movies, exactly like in our real world. I mean, what really happened during the Clone Wars and during the Empire Era is told in the Expanded Universe books and comics, while TCW, The Bad Batch, Rebels, Rogue One and The Mandalorian are simply TV series and movies created within the Galaxy itself, to tell in an entrataining way the events of Galactic History. These series and movies contradict real history because they are entertainment products, and therefore do not have to be historically accurate. These series and films were created by the Galactic Alliance between the end of the Yuuzhan Vong War and the Sith-Imperial War. They would practically be the equivalent of "Inglourious Basterds", "Vickings" and "Rome" in the Star Wars universe, that is, they are series and movies that are set in times that have really existed and tell some real stories, but they mostly contradict the real history because they’re entertainment series, and therefore they don’t have to be historically accurate and meticulous.

[@theunknownuser9609]

2003 Clone Wars feel way more like propaganda with a bunch of action and painting the Jedi as unstoppable forces fighting for what's right (I'm talking about the Tartakovsky show not the rest of the multimedia project) The Clone Wars is quite critical of the Jedi

[@blonded0532]

I do think that Ahsoka ended up being a genuinely good and interesting character in the end instead of a “strong female” insert. As a hardcore legends purist, even I accept Ahsoka and part of her ark in rebels as well as part of my own headcanon.

[@bassmantjox1299]

T canon bellow S canon.

[@andrewdau1299]

This is the most comprehensive video I have seen on the CGI Clone Wars series and Legends. Thank you dude this is awesome.

[@Donker_Dank]

13:06 this definitely didnt age well given that Talzin is mauls momma

[@theketaminefrog6366]

Yeah, it's funny that TCW retconned even retcons caused by it in the first place xD