Why Steve Is The Most Overrated Character In Smash History

[@paristrats]

Thanks for all the support, over 1000 views & 100 comments is honestly way more than I expected! I never specified a time frame on replying to every comment but it's been 2 days now & I feel I've given an adequate amount of time so no guarantee I'll reply to comments from this point on. I'll still reply if I have something of value to say though. Happy New Year!

[@sagegang6957]

I like how you said mining isnt feasible unless you're behind a wall when pretty much every top level steve will reliably mine for resources behind a wall because most characters cant reliably deal with it

[@paristrats]

I'm not going to deny that wall is powerful but almost every character can still break it or jump over it (sorry Little Mac). Usually I think it's down to the players fighting against Steve & not their characters. As I said in the video you can react & hit Steve for building wall if you're close enough.

[@Bryghtt]

​@@paristratshe can just Minecraft away or not mine and just cook you either way. The point of walls being breakable or jumping over them, is so shit your going to be punished, you obviously have not played a good steve

[@xanander4693]

@@paristratsMost characters cannot deal with breaking walls. Steve can react to them hitting blocks with an f-smash or dash attack or whatever. And you can’t react to Steve building blocks always. The example you showed was bad. No good Steve player is going to build a wall right in front of the opponent.

[@sagegang6957]

@@paristrats unless you can hit through the wall with a disjoint, steve will definitely be able to react to any option to deal with the wall, especially since he can tech his own terrain, its not hard to find examples of this at the high level at all

[@Robert-gn7ec]

Steve can build a wall then use up b to fly to the other side of the map

[@packun_jonk3276]

This is missing a lot of the actual reasons why steve is broken or at best is dismissive of it. The biggest problem with steve is the risk vs reward aspect of fighting steve for most characters. Take dealing with blocks for example. Most characters as you said only have 2 ways to deal with it, jumping over or breaking them. Theres two problems with trying to jump over them. Firstly most steves build their walls by a platform so that the platform acts as more of a roof. This makes it much easier for steve to react or predict to the route that you would take to challenge him and hence easier to punish which leads into the second problem. You cannot land on steve because up tilt is a frame 6 combo option that leads to big damage or kills. He also has access to up smash which is a massive frame 8 hitbox that kills most characters ridiculously early for how active and fast it is. Not being able to land on steve is a huge issue due to how little space youre left with after you jump over the walls and you have very little options for mixing up your landing in such little space especially if youre a character that had to expend their double jump to get there in the first place. Your best possible realistic reward for going through this gauntlet is maybe a ledgetrap/edgeguard scenario for most characters. Steve on the other hand can spam up tilt on where he thinks your gonna land and if it hits you can get comboed for 40% on the low end or die from stuff like up tilt bair, up tilt up smash etc. if he misses he could risk getting sent into the aforementioned ledgetrap situation. High commitment and risk for a low to mid reward for the challenger, and low risk/commitment and high reward for steve. Also this is not a risk you can just not take because you CANNOT let steve mine or else you WILL lose unless youre a character with a reliable timeout game with steve (sonic, zss) Similar applies to breaking the blocks, a lot of characters have no reliable ways to break blocks like stone or wood (stone being the material youll be fighting against on ps2) Most characters require 2 aerials or tilts to take out fresh blocks that arent dirt or an equivalent which leaves steve plenty of time to react and prepare with a minecart, fsmash through the wall, or any number of other things (most daunting being his frame 13 forward smash that hits through the wall and can kill at 90 with diamond). The share of risk vs reward is shared in this scenario as well as well as this being an almost forced interaction. This is not to say it is IMPOSSIBLE to beat it because it clearly isnt, but this is all about the risk vs reward aspect of the interaction as a whole that will be forced upon whoever steve is fighting; except for certain exceptions that can avoid it altogether such as zss, sonic, hero. It is no coincidence that these characters have a favorable matchup vs steve (among other reasons like their high movement). The factor of risk vs reward in most interactions with steve will be skewed in steves favor just by his nature which is why dismissing the wall scenario and saying "just break them lol" is not a valid argument. You can apply this to most interactions with steve (dealing with minecart/anvil, mining below ledge, etc) but i wont do that because this comment is long enough as it is lol.

[@paristrats]

The part about hitting Steve on reaction for making wall was largely a joke & can rarely be done. Honestly I agree with your point about risk vs reward & that is why Steve is potentially the best character in the game. In hindsight I'd probably have him at 2nd or 3rd on the tier list, he is a pretty broken character.

[@hazyhayley7488]

@@paristrats Sounds like Steve isn’t overrated and your video is missing the point without tackling the actual issues.

[@Perciprius_91]

@@paristratsEver heard of Brawl Metaknight?

[@PlagueDrHK]

Projectile, sword character. Now ur argument is invalid. Top 10 character. Overrated as hell though.

[@TwinHacari]

Steve uptilt is easy to land on. Git gud at timing instead of crying 😂

[@Wizard_Lizard_]

1:54 Ah yes, just "react" to the frame 4 option. Because that's realistic. Note: The fastest move the average person actually reacts to is around frame 20+. A prediction or anticipation is not a reaction. People commonly confuse these things. You want to know just how impossible reacting to Steve Block is? Pro Tekken players commonly get hit by Hellsweep. Hellsweep is a frame 16 move and is considered "invisible". You block Hellsweeps via prediction, not reaction. And you want people to react to a move that is x4 as fast as a Hellsweep?

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

Yeah that part was mind numbingly stupid. Good Steve's rarely just set up the walls in neutral. Normally they do it while the opponent is in hitstun or after sending out a minecart so that they're forced into a defensive option for a short period of time.

[@matthiashopkins7502]

the idea is that they should think twice of putting up blocks. also they set up two to three blocks, which is way different than putting up one block like it would do much.

[@paristrats]

You can react if Steve builds a 3 block pillar, though I will acknowledge you'll usually be too far away.

[@xjgal7702]

Block is 15 frames total so even reacting to the block coming out by the time the Steve can act again is barely humanly possible 😂

[@matthiashopkins7502]

@@xjgal7702 if ur setting up blocks ur usually committing to doing it, if they’re trying to set up shop behind the wall then they’re more focused on doing that then counter play

[@morefrost964]

You should make this a series of all the characters

[@paristrats]

@@morefrost964 Like a series where I talk about a character being super over or underrated? That’s actually a pretty good idea, I might do that in the future.

[@morefrost964]

@paristrats yea. I follow this guy who does like "blank is overpowered " videos which are just like compilations of him playing the character but you can do like what you did for Steve. Like overrated but give like the benefits of them

[@farewell418]

The problem with resources is that every weapon with every resource has a technique and they really don’t matter that much. Wood has the best combo set as it has the lowest KB of the 4, low KB on an up tilt is infamous as very strong and this is one of the reasons Pichu was so strong until they eventually nerfed it (by adding more KB to it). They need to add more KB on his wood tools and then nerf it on his diamond tools, this counts as various other nerfs in the next game. He has a moving command grab and a dair that can kill G&W mid stage at 66% with perfect DI. His neutral B is arguably the best in the game (argument with monado arts, which I still think is better). And one of the most important things, he was way too much versatility, what I mean by this is: he can adjust to any playstyle, if someone wants to time you out, Steve is just gonna mine and get stronger. If someone wants to go aggressive, Steve is gonna do safe punishes until it kills. He’s definitely overrated because he’s compared to Meta Knight and Bayonetta in Brawl and 64 but he’s definitely the best character in the game by a mile. I can add how easy his ledgetrapping is and the fact that most his moves kill light characters at like 70% but I think you know that.

[@paristrats]

The problem with wood, stone & gold tools is that they break - not that they aren't powerful. Minecart & anvil are very good moves but are also completely reactable. Anvil does not kill G&W from centre stage at 66% even with max rage, so I'm assuming you mean in juggle scenarios where it can be reflected with bucket to kill Steve. I do agree that Steve's neutral B is broken, not much to say there. I agree with much of the rest of your comment but still think that Pikachu & Joker are just a little more broken.

[@StoopedDaDum]

@@paristrats minecart and anvil might be reactable if he's far away from you sure but not only do they basically mean he has no disadvantage they also can kill stupidly early. The steve players are just bad and don't play well and spam (because they honestly can get away with it a lot of the time) but once you fight a steve who actually knows how to play the game it's not fun. A lot of the counterplay you mentioned in the video has is its own counterplay the steve can implement that's honestly much much easier and safer to execute. Like when you say you can just react to steve's block, 1. you can't just react it's like frame 5 or something and 2 he can just place 1 block or 2. I also don't think you mentioned steve's strengths whatsoever. He's the second most touch of death character in the game, but unlike kazuya he has a good disadvantage state and recovery. Acola is considered like probably still #1 in the world and he barely does any steve tech at all. When he plays any other character you can see how many mistakes he actually gets away with because he plays steve. Even knowing the basic combos is enough because he does like 70% off an up tilt that you can WALK with in neutral, that's incredibly safe on shield especially with diamond or gold and is STUPID fast. It's easy for him to punish you for breaking blocks and even easier when you try going over the blocks. He gets so many opportunities to mine in neutral and unless you are literally on top of him all game (which is risky because u have to play so carefully around him or he'll up tilt you) he's going to mine a good amount. I don't think the fact his tools can break hold him back that much. Only one tool is breaking at a time and if he knocks you away with a throw or minecart he just gets to recraft them easily. Joker and Pikachu have much easier counterplay. Arsene recovery is awful, arsene can be camped out and without arsene he cannot kill you unless he can edgeguard you. Joker is not a rushdown char like people used to think and having to close in the distance with arsene can be difficult. You have a limited amount of time to quickly yoink a kill or rack up as much damage as you. 100% busted character but no where near steve levels. He doesn't have true combos that deal nearly the same amount of damage. Steve gets arsene back air on his diamond pickaxe. Pikachu also does not have the same type of damage output as either character doesn't have as many disjoints and is light. Both Joker and Pikachu also require some level of intelligence and skill when you're playing the game. idk that's just my thoughts on him. I think his risk reward ratio is so skewed in his favor compared to any other character it's insane. You have aegis above him which is surprising to me considering how much more obvious the aegis counterplay is imo, just touch them offstage. What's holding steve back from being banned universally is that steve mains are lazy, and honestly they can be because they'll still win. I do not think acola outplays half the people he's beaten such as WebbJP and tweek at watch the throne. You have to play perfectly against this character and make 0 mistakes.

[@Robert-gn7ec]

@@StoopedDaDumyou spoke my mind

[@Robert-gn7ec]

@@paristratsthe issue with down air is the fact he can break shield, do it for free in the air, and it is a kill move that kills pretty early. It’s very similar to hydrant but it can be used more frequently

[@boogsss2]

OP thinks the fox is top 5 so take this with a grain of salt

[@illford]

I feel that whilst i don't want him banned, the whole "Break the blocks" move is very reductive, it's easy for some characters break em but we are also ignoring the fact that there's more than just dirt, but also he can punish a block break depending on positioning and how good the player is. Other issue is he's just really boring to watch. I enjoy zoners and slow games, i mean I enjoy watching Brawl. But idk man Steve just looks depressing especially as lower tier characters that just can't do a whole lot against him. Secondly his ass is NOT the most overrated character we've seen, that's insane hyperbole. It's really Moreso that people think he's 12/10 when he's like 9.5-10/10. Imo Steve shouldn't be banned if no other top tiers who broke the game were banned but i think his ass could be nerfed a fair amount and he'd still be good. Blocks alone truly do let you do some messed up things

[@farewell418]

Bayo and Meta knight were banned in multiple of locals around the world in Brawl and 64, but Steve is just boring to watch. I can see how they would want to ban steve specifically because of entertainment value and not strength.

[@paristrats]

Your first point is true. Steve is actually my favourite character to watch & if a character is really bad against him that issue's not specific to Steve as other characters such as Pikachu destroy low tiers as well. The video title is a joke for dramatic effect, I don't actually think Steve's the most overrated character in Smash history. Maybe I should have made that more clear in the video. And yeah, Steve along with many other top tiers does deserve some nerfs. He can definitely do some messed up things with blocks.

[@MrMonki-zc4pr]

While I disagree with much of your tier list, I’m glad that it doesn’t conform to many other tier lists I see around the web, and that you don’t seem to be scared to share your real opinions (like putting Bayonetta in c tier and have wario and diddy Kong 5th and 6th in the game) Also, while I don’t necessarily strongly disagree with many of your points, I feel to beat Steve, you have to work WAY harder than the Steve player does, which imo, depicts a character’s strength by a lot. Overall, a great video, excited to see more from you!

[@paristrats]

Thanks. The tier list is actually pretty old, I'll update it soon.

[@IsmaelIsaSnail]

I'm just at a loss of words

[@paristrats]

ok

[@mokeymok958]

good points. i think a lot of players kind of just let steve build walls for free, but youre right that they can just hit him for trying to build them. a good example of this is lucky's sets against steve, he's very good both at using plant's unique tools to attack steve behind walls, but also punishing steve while building walls in the first place

[@paristrats]

Yeah. I also should probably have mentioned that not every character can do it consistently.

[@raven-a]

My TO in Brazil uses a ruleset specifically to deal with Steve mining, even though we have no Steve mains in the city 😂🎉 The stages are: Battlefield (Regular, Small and Omega form, to not have FD) and the AC stages (Smashville and Town and City). No counterpicks ofc, all starters, very neat but lacks a bit of pizzaz, if you ask me

[@paristrats]

No PS2 is tragic 🥲

[@barbaricbacon9139]

I think the main problem with Steve and the main reason why some tournaments ban him is PMLG, which I think undoubtedly makes him the best character in the game. It’s a better combo breaker than shield monado, can be done at any time and lets you get reward for getting hit, which is extremely unintuitive game design. Outside of that, I still personally think he’s the best character in the game due to his sheer versatility, but I can definitely see an argument to be made for being in the top 5 (any lower is pushing it) and a lot of the tips brought up in the video do seem very helpful to know

[@ChampionLink]

3:00 ah yes, taking Steve to a stage that’s not available in most regions. I really appreciate the advice 👍

[@paristrats]

In my region Lylat's legal, but Steve also mines a bit slower on Pokemon Stadium 2, Hollow Bastion & Kalos Pokemon League.

[@smithclaxton3357]

​@@paristratson PS2 he gets iron easier

[@PrinceBirdy]

Me personally, I think he should be banned in some places but not in all.

[@raiden8929]

You completely neglected the reason hes being banned now, NIL

[@AvengerSpencer]

What, who is banning him for NIL, it’s been know for like 3 years

[@blaize5436]

bro if you actually believe this you know like next to nothing ab ultimate and this character lmao

[@paristrats]

I don't know a lot about NIL. If I see something that shows it's incredibly broken in tournament maybe I'll reassess my position on Steve.

[@bulbrobbob1882]

as someone who mega abuses nils as steve its not really game breaking just lets you get alot more out of steve but requires alot more time and effort so alot of steves dont learn it even the top ones barely know how to do them@@paristrats

[@CipherKnighto]

If only we actually could manifest Shulk’s potential I’d think he’d be the best possible Steve counter. I also think DDee said Steve can struggle with Ivysaur

[@donaldmcdonald3434]

I'm primarily a melee player and Steve is fucking hilarious to watch. I'm glad he's in the game for the luls.

[@zeo_o6395]

I dont see any steves struggle to get to mining. The risk reward to jumping over and hitting him or even breaking the block and being punished is in steves favor

[@zeo_o6395]

also there is no way anyone is going to support banning more characters after steve

[@zeo_o6395]

since that also hasnt happened in steve banned regions

[@paristrats]

Agreed. It's in Steve's favour that's why he's top 5.

[@paristrats]

It's already happened for some tournaments in some regions.

[@patchmuffin5248]

the one biggest problem i have with this video is that u mention a lot of points in an on paper sense. yes, feasibly u can jump over or attack the wall, however ur not accounting for stuff like spacing when wall goes up, character choice etc. ur not counting for the mental stack that steve can carry every time he leaves the ground, he doesnt need to always build a wall when he starts building, he can make a vantage point for example. either way i doubt even the best players can react almost perfectly every time steve starts to build walls without making it obvious for the steve on whatll happen next. in the examples of u hitting them, the options u showed were mere frames after the steve hit the button to start to build, the laser option was definitely below human reaction range, but i can see the argument for the aerial if it was a preemptive jump. i do appreciate, however, u showing the counterplay to minecart and explaining there are flaws in the counterplay, such as spacing. however, the 2nd biggest problem i have is how u mention steves movement. the way to get around it isnt rly just minecart, steve rly doesnt have to interact in the first place. he can easily make progress by turtling, allowing him to force the opponent to approach, and then the wall argument starts up again. then theres also the problem of how good his kit is at keeping out others from being hyper aggressive if he does choose to turtle. in the end tho, i agree with the rest of the points, and i do think this video is rly factual on the overall opinion of steve and his actual affect on the metagame,

[@TheBestFormOfHumor]

It's so annoying how he didn't feel like elaborating on anything he said to counter steve's options

[@paristrats]

@TheBestFormOfHumor If there's anything specific you'd like me to elaborate on you can reply here.

[@TheBestFormOfHumor]

@@paristrats Biggest one I would like a better explanation for is the "just hit them" approach to prevent Steve from camping behind blocks. I don't understand how this strategy is viable at all when the only real time this would be viable is if the Steve is doing it right next to you. 99% of the time they're going to be hiding behind blocks when you're on the other side of the stage, not in neutral. The other thing I'm sort of iffy about is punishing him for spamming Minecart. The thing that has me thinking about it more than the blocks is that it depends on what level of play we're talking about. High level players will easily adapt to being punished for spamming the move and simply find other ways out of disadvantage but your average person probably wont and thus the point can be applied to them. I know this isn't what you're asking but I also want to add that the main reason I dislike your lack of explanation on points is because I agree that Steve isn't banworthy and isn't as oppressive as people like to make him out to be. Honestly this entire video would have been so much better if you just said "be more aggressive" because that is what sums up most counter play vs Steve. Sorry if I sounded a bit bashful with my other reply or even in this one.

[@ironman1458]

Truth is smash players just need to accept the game is non-competitive. There's plenty of real competitive games to enjoy. Just let smash be the party game it is

[@MattDustyParker]

Steve is over rated.

[@paristrats]

You know it.

[@xanander4693]

This video pretty much was “Just learn the mu lol” without explaining why in any sort of meaningful depth.

[@paristrats]

I tried to explain my points as best I can while keeping the video short. Is there anything specific you'd like more detail on?

[@xanander4693]

@@paristrats Idk, I just thought you discovered some counter play and I got excited but everything you mentioned has been said before. Also sorry for calling your vid shallow, idk what came over me. But I honestly agree with you that Steve is overrated. Obviously he’s still the best character in the game but ppl like to exaggerate the gap between him and the second best character.

[@paristrats]

Thanks. I can see why you think he's the best character in the game but for now I still think he's probably not. Also the tier list in the video is old Steve's definitely top 3.@@xanander4693

[@xanander4693]

@@paristrats I’m still not convinced that you believe he isn’t top 1. I can see sonic being better but that’s it.

[@skyminoffline]

can u explain why sonic is not top tier

[@paristrats]

It's an old tier list, Sonic definitely should be top tier.

[@ribstix1014]

The difference between steve and every other character in the game, is that all the weaknesses you mentioned he has answers for. Being able to make terrain alone makes him top 1.

[@paristrats]

The terrain disappears very quickly if you're standing on it so that doesn't really apply. Also how does Steve deal with being slow if minecart can be reacted to & punished?

[@ribstix1014]

He can just, not minecart if the opponent positions against it putting him in a better spot to get out of disadvantage. Also, standing isn't the only reason building terrain is good.@@paristrats

[@Robert-gn7ec]

@@ribstix1014I’ve not seen any Steve’s just hang out on a block, they use it as the best recovery in the game and to set up deathtraps

[@boogsss2]

I'm just stuck on the fact that Paris thinks Sephiroth is top tier and that sonic isnt even top 10

[@paristrats]

The tier list is pretty old, when I make make a new one soon I'll put Sephiroth in high tier & Sonic in top 10.

[@benjaminsettlemire7006]

I'm using this as gospel

[@paristrats]

Thanks.

[@fonsie19]

As a TO, I've banned Steve in my region about a year ago. Our consensus here is not that he deserves a ban because he's op (I do think he's the best, but probably not by much) or because of results, as Meta Knight and Bayonetta should have taught the community that waiting for catastrophic results is just letting the game die. The real problem with Steve is just how much he skews the skillset and fundamentals on which Ultimate is built. A lot of Steve players are bad at the game but are good at Steve. Being good versus Steve has little to do with being good at the game, it's mostly just being ready for a million knowledge checks and not letting him mine. I sincerely even find it fun to play vs Steve, but he's just not playing Ultimate. Other characters stray a bit from Ultimate's general skillset as well, but none come closer to as egregiously as Steve. Even if he's not everywhere in bracket, he's still overly centralizing in the meta because he's the only character that forces you to know so much specific counterplay and minor matchup interactions and setups. No other character requires so much studying to play against. And there are over 80 characters in the game, arguably most of them are tournament viable, and everyone besides Steve lets you wing it in the matchup with just a solid gameplan and some basic knowledge on what characters can do. I can't see how Steve adds anything positive to the game competitively. Hyrule Temple is a very fun stage and I'm glad it's in the game and that doesn't mean it would ever get remotely close to a serious tournament ruleset, same with the beam sword, they just add variables that we don't consider to be part of what we want in this game's competitive experience, and Steve's very much in the same vein. Of course Kazuya and Sonic and Min Min are stupid and break some rules, but they don't fundamentally change the way the game works. Steve does.

[@paristrats]

No one plays Smash Ultimate competitively because of how much they like the beam sword or Hyrule Temple. An entire character is a much bigger deal than one stage or item. I personally considered quitting the game after Steve got banned but didn’t because he was only a secondary. If I mained him I likely would have quit the game & I know Steve mains who have. I also don’t think that Steve changes the fundamentals of the game as much as you say but that’s just me.

[@fonsie19]

@@paristrats I'd much rather have people dropping the game because they can't play Steve anymore than people dropping the game because of the sorry state the meta is in, which happens quite a lot more

[@phorchybug3286]

Yeah, this guy really was a stupid choice.

[@paristrats]

I personally like Steve a lot as a character in Ultimate but you're entitled to your opinion.

[@DGSnowolf]

Whenever people want to ban Steve I just want to point at his MU Chart which isnt even that wild. Cause yes he has a really good moveset with range, but not much range compared to other ranged characters. He is slow and has to use Minecart so when the opponents character has an easy answer for it you kinda HAVE to play campy. When a char has an easy answer for blocks, you cant camp, if you cant camp your moveset gets worse. There are quite a few chars that can beat Steve and even some others that can let him farm up to have his entire moveset and then still just camp or box HIM out. Cause he is still slow and doesnt have the best of ranges. He is more of a G&W char in the way that he completely invalidates and stomps a bunch of characters even other high/top tiers, which is why people think he is so broken. He beats Mario, Diddy, Joker, Fox, Wario which are used by the big players here. So they are annoyed by Steve and therefore the fanbase is annoyed by Steve. But he still loses quite a bit of matchups even to other high and top tiers like Min Min, Snake, Cloud, Sonic, Game & Watch. His MU chart is actually kind of underwhelming for his Top 5 Status. And judging by MU chart the only chars that should be considered for a ban are Sonic and Kazuya.

[@xanander4693]

While steve mu chart isn’t as good as say g&w or Sonic’s he still has a top 10 mu spread, which is good. And even the characters that “beat” him still have to respect a lot of his tools or else they lose. And the real reason Steve losing mus don’t really feel losing is bc Steve plays in the exact same way regardless of the character. Realistically Steve only loses about 5 mus.

[@DGSnowolf]

Well no like I just said when their blocks get removed from the equasion they have to play more aggressive and if minecart gets taken out, more campy. So some mu force a certain playstyle out of him. But they are playstyles that function perfectly well and could even be the preferable choice of the Steve anyway. If the recipe for -2ing steve is having more range, countering minecart, easily dealing with blocks and being able to edgeguard him, then his -2 matchups would be: Cloud, Min Min and Hero. If -1 is being able to deal with Blocks and stopping him from getting resources OR stopping him from spamming minecart taking away his approach and also being able to brawl with him through range or speed, then his -1 matchups are: Sonic, Belmonts, Sephiroth, Palutena, Falco, Snake, Pokemon Trainer, ZSS, G&W and maybe MegaMan/Duck Hunt theyre too rare for me to be able to tell. But that's a lot more than 5 and I think the only ones arguable are Sonic, Sephiroth and Palutena.@@xanander4693

[@paristrats]

I agree that Steve loses only about 5 mus but that's not grounds for a ban or even for an argument that he's the best character in the game@@xanander4693

[@paristrats]

I agree with pretty much everything you say here.

[@StoopedDaDum]

his matchup chart does not matter at all. he only “loses” matchups if the steve player is bad. steve is supposed to lose to sephiroth and tweek has never beaten acola. the last time they played tweek’s diddy kong came closer to beating acola than sephiroth. the only character he loses to is cloud and maybe sonic, but when you can touch of death any character your bad matchups do not matter, unless you are kazuya playing against min min or sonic

[@lyncario5515]

I will forever say that Steve has been fraudchecking the entire Smash playerbase and that the way many want him banned is a good showing of how the vast majority of Ultimate players are massive scrubs who are unable to adapt. The best way to beat Steve is with agressive play + correct spacing, you don't let the ressource gatherer get more ressources for free because of course he's going to be good if you let him, and you beat his blocks without getting punished just with correct spacing, Steve's range is pretty short, he's not going to punish you unless he commits to a very predictable Minecart from that position. Now I get it, not every characters can do that. And yeah, sucks to be Little Mac and Ganondorf, good thing that almost every other characters have option for breaking blocks safely. But hey, Ultimate's more or less passive meta that favors large stage has allowed the character who thrives with it to thrive, oh woah. It's no wonder that Acola is the best player as of now since he's the only top player who is actually willing to adapt to the meta evolving.

[@ElChadou1]

mii brawler top tier?!?!?!

[@paristrats]

I'm not very knowledgeable about Mii Brawler he just feels top tier to me. I'm biased though because I suck against Mii Brawler.

[@MattDustyParker]

Let's play sometime, I'll give you brawler experience ​@@paristrats

[@paristrats]

Sure, I'm from NSW Australia. Do you have Twitter/X or Discord so we can DM?@@MattDustyParker

[@jeffbell9129]

Not like Steve is winning the most majors and getting the most top 8’s--deffo overrated

[@s_stellar_rr]

Skibiti

[@DennisPragerIsGodUWU]

Somebody already said the thing about blocks being a 4 frame startup move but to add to this. Its 15 total frames which humans also can't react to. Also like what if you try to read the Steve will make a wall, if you're wrong you just jump into Up Tilt into 80%. Also about Minecart its also not as simple as just reacting. What if you go to break blocks and get punished by it, what about if you whiff and a cart is coming at you? Your argument assumes Steve throws it out when you're doing nothing. Also again I think you know what the reward Steve gets for it is.

[@paristrats]

Personally I've been able to react to 3 block pillars so I think it is possible. I'm not saying minecart is bad, I'm saying if you're not in endlag you can punish it.

[@Bryghtt]

Pikachu number 1? Sonic 1 fucking spot above chrom? Chrom better than rob? Pokemon trainer that fucking high? Bowser in low tier? Sephiroth in top tier? Shulk below luigi and lucina? Dawg this is worst than the "official tier list" also i hope that is not sora in s tier

[@paristrats]

This is an old tier list & some of my opinions have changed since making it. But Pikachu is still number 1.

[@Bryghtt]

@@paristrats 💀💀💀 what ever you say buddy

[@StorialessTauri]

There are a lot of things that does not make common sense on punishing steve, since only a few number of characters can even deal with his shenanigans but saying, punish him when he builds doesnt make sense since its a frame 4 option which nobody can react that fast unless they are predicting the opponent and the biggest issue is that.... no steve is going to mine or build blocks in front of you,. so not only will you be too slow to attempt something, you're just obviously leaving yourself open for major damage or just losing a stock all together. I might wanna say you should look at top play or just examine how most steve players uses him before making some faulty claims ways to deal with him... other than that the other information is really good

[@paristrats]

I was largely joking when I said you can just punish Steve blocks on reaction but if they build a 3 block pillar & you're close enough it is possible, I've done it myself. Also I have watched a lot of Steve tournament sets.

[@Mizuhitami]

what charackters are better and why? :0

[@paristrats]

I think Pikachu is better because of his better neutral & overall movement but it's pretty close.

[@Mizuhitami]

ok only pika?@@paristrats

[@Myster_kirbs]

I am not for the ban, but I disagree with the "hit him before he builds the blocks" argument. Most of the time if I fight a good enough Steve, I will lose neutral a single time, they will hit me away and then build blocks, where I am in no capacity to punish them for it. Then starts the entire problem with the logic of the video (in my humble opinion): once he has his blocks up, I have to approach or he gets his win condition and resources being finite becomes irrelevant. Jumping over is committal and is the best way to get 60%/die, and breaking the blocks makes me be in endlag, so I still get the short end of the stick. He simply has so many mixups from then on (sending minecart in the wall's hole to cover dash in / shield / attack, just retreating and building another wall, grabbing, fsmashing, or even sliding up B are things you have to be careful of). That also makes him being slow completely irrelevant, as you're gonna be approaching him anyways, so he doesn't need mobility. As for another topic, pushing him out of the way of crafting is nice, but he can almost immediately attack out of the crafting animation, so once again, you are risking 60%/death, is it worth it? I think the biggest problem with fighting Steve isn't that minecart is hard to punish, or that diamond is too strong, but simply that it is a character who's playstyle forces you to approach, but has such an amazing punish game that you have to be borderline perfect if you want to approach, and that its weaknesses become nigh irrelevant if they get the smallest opportunity to play their game. To give you props on something, I agree that people need to get better at pressuring a Steve with no iron, but having no iron doesn't render Steve defenseless, even with no mats, he always has upsmash which means you still cant pressure him carelessly at high percents and need to be careful, so its not even like he's a bad character without iron.

[@paristrats]

I was partly joking when I said 'why do people complain about wall so much'. I'm aware you are usually too far away to punish Steve for building wall. I like your analysis a lot & do think that Steve probably is a little bit over-tuned. In my personal experience I've found Steve's gameplay loop to not be unbeatable but I haven't fought Acola so who knows!

[@PlagueDrHK]

He has one mix up. The other is running away. Simply play a char who counters the one mixup or rushes him down too hard. So much counterplay it's funny..you're basically playing a luigi with a wonderwing. OP but little mix up and slow.

[@reploidzer0936]

do you just assume that people who think steve are broken dont already know about the stuff you mentioned?? steve can still be top 1 while still having a semblance of a weakness lol you didnt mention anything about his absurd damage output, diamond and gold normals, powered minecart, steves ledgetrapping, steves touch of death combos, etc i think your argument for "steve shouldnt be banned because you can actually punish steve for doing _" kinda falls apart when literally every top 10 player (hell maybe even top 10 or 50) that isnt acola or miya thinks he should be banned and that steve is top 1 however, i do agree with your final point about how banning steve in some regions can hurt the players traveling if they go to regions where he isn't banned, and that banning steve can lead to characters like kazuya or sonic being banned. that is true, and i've seen it for myself in my own and other's regions my counterpoints aside, this was still a well-made video, your editing and script were solid

[@paristrats]

I understand why most people say Steve is top 1 & I think he's pretty close, I just want to mention a lot of those things for people who don't know much about the character. I did show multiple long combos in the video & thought including the other things like ledge trapping & powered mine carts would kill the pacing of the video without really adding that much, but perhaps it would have been worth it to include some of those things. Your point about the number of international top players supporting a Steve ban is not something I can comment on with any legitimacy as I don't know these players or their views I can only share my own.

[@Leon.K69]

The problem people (not me) have with banning steve is that it will get rid of any Steve mains, but like if you only played the game because of this dlc fighters tyen why bother at all

[@MrTNT49]

I think the "if we ban Steve, people might start to ban other characters" argument is incredibly stupid. First, in any competitive game, rules are curated, as they should be, to keep the game conpetitive and fun to watch. It is a normal and necessary thing. Second, Steve is only bannable, because he is both the best character in the game by far AND is degenerate (skips multiple essential parts of the game). That's why Min-Min should never be banned, although she is degenerate, since there are many characters that are better than her.

[@TwinHacari]

People play so soft. Cant pressure to save their lives and get mad they cant out camp a steve so they say hes broken. His defense is weak and dair OOS lacks range. Easily cracks under pressure and thats why Miya keeps winning a bad mu.

[@paristrats]

True

[@paristrats]

NOTE: Steve mines faster on Final Destination & slower on other stages, so while I say in the video it takes 7 seconds of mining to get diamond it usually takes longer.

[@echospace7347]

2:00 because not every character has the tools for it. Your using a top tier Ofc it’s gonna be easy

[@paristrats]

Yeah a worse character would have a harder time against blocks but that's just the way the game works, Steve does beat the majority of the cast. Also a lot of other projectiles can probably do the same thing. And if it's easy to beat Steve blocks with any top tier than why is Steve so broken?

[@redapetfm2162]

Steve should not be banned anywhere. That being said, no every character cannot “safely” destroy blocks. You risk getting F-smashed and dying at 80. You jump over and get up-tilted into back-air or NIL up-smash. Punishing Steve building blocks isn’t even really feasible and he can use it to survive longer from teching. Not to mention on some stages Steve can just mine up in the air. You literally lose 1 interaction to prevent him from mining and he gets diamond anyway. I don’t see how he is “overrated” when his tools and mechanics aren’t even optimized and he’s already the best character in the game.

[@paristrats]

The part about hitting Steve on reaction for making wall was largely a joke & can rarely be done. The video title was also an exaggeration for dramatic effect. I don't think it's very practical for Steve to mine in the air against most characters.

[@pwizandtheween3652]

Naw, Steve busted af.

[@nage9465]

I think your analysis of block is too reductive. Yes most characters can break it or jump over it but these are all punishable on the steves end so theres a lot more that goes into dealing with blocks. And while these mixups are being played steve is getting more time to mine resources. It really doesnt take him that long to get resources. Many chatacters mechanics are on much longer cooldown than it takes steve to get diamond (joker arsene, luma) which he doesnt even really need it just pushes him over the edge of broken. Also pushing steve away from his table is so easy for him to hit you for it that its pretty much never worth doing and the time it takes him to craft is so low that even if succesful he will still b able to craft after with no risk.

[@paristrats]

I wanted to keep the video short so I didn't go into a lot of detail about blocks, but I think that what you are saying about blocks is pretty accurate. Yes Steve can get diamond pretty quickly but he needs uninterrupted time, whereas Joker just needs to get hit. Pushing Steve away from his crafting table is risky but it's sometimes worth doing.

[@MrTNT49]

Agreed. I've been saying for years, that characters that can deal with blocks easily (Palutena, Ivysaur,...) don't win the matchup automatically. Ut just means that thwy have a chance to win. In fact, if your character can't deal, with blocks, that means you automatically lose abysmally.

[@Lynxical]

I feel like you missed the point on... a lot, you can't "just" react to blocks, it's a guessing game, not all characters have a Wolf forward air that sweeps above to hit early, or a projectile to just hit him(which can be reacted to), either, if Steve starts building, it's done in a way where Steve is actively pushing himself AWAY from the opponent to sit in a corner and mine. At the start of a match, players are too far away to hit Steve with something to stop him from building 3 blocks up to start mining. A lot of the examples you showed were just downright unrealistic, if you showed me top players doing this counterplay I'd be more inclined to believe you, but top players have tried and tried and tried to learn the matchup only for Steve to just Steve the opponent regardless of what you do. Steve has too much X Factor to factor in, it's too easy for him to snowball into a comeback or a massive lead, you have to deal with 50 different potential options at once, it's really just not fun to deal with, and this is coming from someone who is good against Steve. Also Pyra/Mythra at 4th? Really? Aegis is barely Top 10, if even that, Aegis is by far more overrated than Steve. Cloud better than Aegis.

[@paristrats]

I was partly joking when I said you can just react & punish blocks you’re usually too far away. I made a personal choice to take most of my clips from my own replays first because it’s quicker & easier & second because I prefer having my own play mostly so that I can roast it. Personally I really enjoy fighting against Steve but yeah he can make big comebacks or the game can really snowball in his favour very fast. The tier list is an old one & my opinion of the strengths of some characters has shifted. I’d move Pyra/Mythra down a little if I made one now.

[@e5ryergsdfg3q465]

Get out of here click baiter.

[@gabrion6512]

Classic steve main defending steve😂

[@paristrats]

I main Wolf, Steve is just a secondary.

[@AdamPolishPants]

reply or else you are lie

[@paristrats]

Ok

[@AdamPolishPants]

@@paristrats dude you arent lie

[@AngelShoryuken]

Good video

[@paristrats]

Thanks!

[@esperanzabrandon2176]

*Promo sm* 💕

[@omega-dp6jd]

pikachu is not the best character in the game

[@paristrats]

I personally think Pikachu is the best character in the game but I'm a little biased because I main Wolf who sucks against Pikachu.

[@omega-dp6jd]

@@paristrats so the reason pikachu isn’t the best in the game: terrible air acceleration, no range, and relies on crazy setups to get kills. The other top tiers don’t rely on execution heavy setups to kill like pikachu. Resources are a weakness for Steve, at top level though breaking walls is a guaranteed punish, which is why ppl want to ban him. He’s definitely really strong and best character in the game

[@fightsalad]

Love this video & love Steve! ❤

[@paristrats]

I love Enderman more but Steve's ok I guess.

[@DavionLane]

He sucks

[@xanander4693]

Yea, he’s worst character

[@paristrats]

I thought that was Kirby's thing?

[@-Noeh-]

No offense but if someone doesn’t put ganon as the worst character in The game then they automatically has no say in anything smash related

[@Asuma741]

He did, last tier is "unsure"

[@DennisPragerIsGodUWU]

He is ranked the lowest. The tier below that is an IDK tier.

[@phorchybug3286]

Yeah, he's kinda lame. Not THE worst but yeah, I don't care for him.

[@paristrats]

I did put Ganon at the bottom. The 'Unsure' tier below was for characters I didn't know where to put.

[@StoopedDaDum]

he literally did put it as the worst lol

[@pokeapolo]

If you reply to this comment then you know this video was cap and he should be banned (And if u dont then your outtro is a lie 🥲)

[@paristrats]

He's already banned in my country so this makes no difference to me. And I am a man of my word!

[@SolrMK]

Good video

[@paristrats]

@@SolrMK Thanks