Why Symbaroum is my D&D

[@jerichojeudy]

If you want to know more from the designer himself, here's a little interview he did recently. It contains very slight spoilers. Definitely worth the listen. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5y9q2V7jdubras

[@apophatos824]

The design decision to prioritise "fun" over "balance" seems to have really paid out for them. There are clearly some very nice min-maxy spell and ability combos in the system. But there are also lots of other jobs to do and ways that PCs can stand out. A sound approach that goes well with the move away from classes and opening up (pretty much) any ability to any PC.

[@jerichojeudy]

@@apophatos824 Whole heartedly agree. Having a fun character instead of a powerful one is widely underrated.

[@monkeymule1286]

"By adults, for adults" is spot on. Just picked this game up and that mature quality carries through the setting, the art, the clarity of the layout. Kinda blown away.

[@jerichojeudy]

Nice... Have fun trying this game out. :)

[@sthiel126]

Almost off topic but... THE ART 😍😍☝️

[@paulliston8561]

I have been listening alot to Symbaroum's world setting and stories, and it has been extremely inspiring. The art is amazing, very dark gaelic themes with Eastern Europe feel. I have been very inspired by it and by the "openness" of the story especially with feeling that players can dive to create and shape the story, instead of just "playing in the world" like most D&D campaigns feel to me.

[@jerichojeudy]

Very good description of the feel of this game. It's a game written by adults for experienced GMs.

[@dominicpizano887]

Love this!! I think with the whole OGL blunder if you maybe posted some tutorials for Symbaroum or intros you could garner a lot of new players! Keep up the great work!

[@jerichojeudy]

Thanks a lot!

[@baszeros]

i can see you broke your views record with this particular video. And good. More people should get to know your channel as it is a great source of tips, tricks, and modus operandi for Symbaroum (Original ruleset) GMs everywhere. And for GMs in general, as any GM for any system can benefit from your videos. Kudos, and keep doing them!

[@jerichojeudy]

Thanks! Yeah, it’s my first video with a general subject and the letters DnD in the title. :) Jokes aside, I have a lot of ideas for videos that use something I do in my campaign and blows it up to something more universal, I mean useful to more people. I’m thinking of doing 1 hour love streams for my actual GM prep videos, to cut back on editing and production time but still share the process.

[@MartijnVos]

I don't know anything about Symbaroum at all (except that some people really like it), and have reasons to not be a huge fan of D&D, but your explanation does sound like it addresses most of my problems with D&D. Maybe I'll check it out.

[@jerichojeudy]

There this, if you’re curious. It’s the PWYW quickstart. www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/279090

[@scottwalker6947]

D&D isn't Epic. It is Super Heroic Fantasy. Great video.

[@benjones1452]

The Art is beautiful 😮

[@jerichojeudy]

Yeah, it's really inspiring.

[@patrickbenjamin9056]

Wow! This sounds like the exact thing my friend has been looking to play. Thank you so much for the break down and comparisons. Excellent video.

[@MrRourk]

Free League for the win

[@tonyvillarreal1812]

I picked up 5E Ruins of Symbaroum few months back. And it's great. It's nice to have something different and new.

[@jerichojeudy]

Nice to hear! I'm thinking on making the RoS statblocks for my adventure Playing w Goblins, that's on Drivethru rpg. Might need some help with those eventually. :)

[@tonyvillarreal1812]

@@jerichojeudy Nice1 I like what they did with the ogres and trolls. Sometimes I have them sing before battle like Mongolian throat singers. And do a Haka to strike fear into their enemies.

[@windmark8040]

Great comparison and analysis!

[@jerichojeudy]

Hey thanks!

[@bc4198]

Great video, very interesting and compelling - I will check Symbaroum out, for sure!

[@sequoyahwright]

I appreciate your approach and delivery, sir. There are hundreds of RPGs available. Like any work of art, each provides a unique experience. This video explains why Symbaroum works best for you. It is not a competition or a zero-sum situation. I own many RPGs (including Symbaroum), and I use each to provide the specific experience they facilitate. I believe this to be an indication of a mature gamer. Maturity of sensibility, not necessarily age. I must mention the absolutely breathtaking art in Symbaroum. It would be equally at home on any coffee table. The images are incredibly evocative and narrative in style, with enough abstraction to engage the viewer's imagination, and enough detail to portray clearly what is happening. The art brings the setting to life, as should any artwork in an RPG, imo. It is a masterpiece. Thank you for your time and effort, sir!

[@CIFox]

Well, this is timely for me! I am starting a Symbaroum campaign finally, and have been looking for current content creators and hints and all that! I believe I linked here from the Discord, so hopefully you'll get a few more subscriptions. Guess I'll have to check out previous videos, too XD

[@jerichojeudy]

I’m not a true KZbinr, I just share stuff from my own campaign in case people might find it useful. My videos are about my actual efficient prep process and some session recaps. I always aim to prep 1 hour for four hours of play. I really dig this game and love it when new people try it out.

[@Kastoruz]

Symbaroum is a real gem, one of the best deep story roleplaying games on the market right now for sure.

[@reluctantartsy]

Leo, Merci! I own everything from Free League except MYZ and Symbaroum, so I thought I’d check it out. I love your content and had already sub’d many months ago. This is well timed, of course, and very welcome. I also recognized your accent immediately as I grew up in Deux Montagnes and lived in NDG for 12 years before moving to Blanc Sablon/Bonne Esperance and then NB. My wife introduced me to Le Valet early in ‘90 and I’m sure you are aware how much they helped the Montréal rpg scene. Thank you and I hope you continue uploads on the channel and diversify to possibly other systems.

[@jerichojeudy]

Le Valet d'Coeur is my FLGS, they are absolutely great and have the Bits and Mortar thing going. Much cheaper going through them since you don’t pay for shipping. I will try too. This is a hobby for me, so I do it on my spare time, which I don’t have a lot of, unfortunately.

[@Ike_of_pyke]

As someoene who is going to start a world based off ruins of Symbaroum (the 5e conversion ), this is a nice breakdown

[@jimsmith7162]

Your video is very good. I agree that starting out pre-gen characters are a plus. I started a one shot with The Promised Land adventure and it's pre-gen. My players liked it so much we are now on the start of a campaign.

[@jerichojeudy]

I love reading stories like that!

[@liamcage7208]

I like Symbaroum a lot. I only played the game a couple of times but was unable to find enough consistent available players who want to play something so far removed from classic D&D. I ended up converting the game world of Symbaroum (Ambria & the Davokar) to a heavily homebrewed gritty Pathfinder 2e campaign. The Symbaroum world is second to none in my opinion, it is overflowing with atmosphere and grim dark feel. I think a 2nd edition will eventually fill out the rules scatter across the different volumes. I would like to see some more fleshed out adventures in the Davokar as well, the Davokar itself is build for sandbox play. A little more Forbidden Lands like hex crawl details to it and it could be the definitive go to sandbox setting.

[@jerichojeudy]

That would be cool. A book filled with interesting encounters, adventure landscapes and setting as random tables…

[@mizzogames]

That's a great video about the system, thanks for sharing. You got a sub!

[@jerichojeudy]

Thanks a lot! Happy to help!

[@koolaidserpent]

I bought symbaroum, and loved it. Could not get my D&D group to buy in. Backed the Symbaroum for 5e Kickstarter. I love it as D&D much better than D&D as it's presented. It helps fix some of 5e issues...although not all.

[@SabersEdge]

Thank you very much. I recently bought Alien from Free League and saw their Symbaroum. I haven't played D&D for years. I tried Pathfinder but it didn't work for me. I started playing in the white boxed set originally and miss the open nature of the game. My son's play 5th Edition and there is some I like about that but my games always had a early medieval north European feel to them so when I saw Symbaroum I started reading some of the advertising material. I appreciated this explanation. I never liked levels and prefer skill based systems that don't over inflate HP's to the point where heros don't even have to worry about 10,000 orcs or whatever. No one who is invulnerable can ever lay any claim to bravery. To be a hero you have to risk something. Thanks for your explanation.

[@jerichojeudy]

It's my pleasure to spread my love for this game. :)

[@PossumMedic]

Interesting system thanks for the vid! I'm not a huge D&D fan (especially now!) but sometimes that's just what my players want. Maybe this would be a good compromise! :D

[@jerichojeudy]

Very well could be. I’ve often heard of people trying out a one shot and then the players clamouring for a campaign. :)

[@bonesshakin2543]

I have very little experience with D&D so I can’t compare it with Symbaroum. But I agree with all the points you made about Symbaroum snd that’s why I too think it’s a great game. The setting is very good and the lore so well thought through. The only thing I’m a bit worried about is that everything in the game is made to tell the story of ”Throne of thorns”. What happens when it is done? Where do you go from there?

[@weirdguy564]

My D&D replacements are numerous. Palladium Fantasy. I like the Strike vs Parry instead of Attack vs Armor Class. Next is Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool. If you want to not use the D20, this is the game. Roll your stat dice + skill dice + special ability dice, pick the best 2 results, add, and does it meet or beat the target number? If you want more traditional D&D, then Shadow of the Demon Lord (build your character over time by picking 3 careers as you play from over 70 choices). And last is Dragon Warriors. You don't roll damage. Your axe is fixed at 4 damage. However, you roll armor penetration. There is no AC in this game, but armor has a number of 4-8 points, and you roll your weapon's damage penetration of 1D4, 1D6, 1D8, ect. It also uses magic points instead of spell slots that you forget. Its a good game, and been around since the 80's.

[@jerichojeudy]

Oh Palladium Fantasy! You’re bringing me back down memory lane right there. :)

[@MischaESC2]

Well done video!

[@seanhembree6154]

Best primer on Symbaroum I've seen.

[@jerichojeudy]

Wow! Thanks!

[@apophatos824]

Couldn't agree more. I"ve been reading Symbaroum manuals for about 3 years now; and only just started GMing a campaign, and very much enjoying it. But I have to say, the manuals and presentation of the lore does seem to demand quite a bit of effort from the GM. There is quite a bit of detail in some areas, and some gaps in others. Gaps don't terribly offend me, as they invite the GM to bring in their own detail and link things into the nuances of the PCs, but they do take effort to resolve and can be speedbumps for GMs that are not ready to deal with them.

[@jerichojeudy]

I agree. For me it’s really perfect, because extrapolation of material comes easy to me. And I really hate reading splat books where every single domain and village is described.

[@xagemox]

Sweden had its own version of D&D called dragons and demons (new version Dragonbane). The Swedish version had no lore but was just a rule system and different monsters where you could create any world you wanted so most had their own worlds. This makes the Free League play a bit with their ideas after they grew up making their own worlds. Dragons and demons used to be the mystery, but after several years, the mystery disappears when everything is shown every day in various animated series and fantasy books. So I think what the Free League is looking for with symbaroum is a way to keep the mystery in the world. To make players experience the world as something new and unexplored. The campaign builds on this and I think the campaign tries to help the player and the gamemaster to create something new.

[@jerichojeudy]

Good point, there. They definitely try hard to make the mysteries of the setting last all through the campaign, and I love that.

[@jimmydesouza4375]

You should look up the system Ars Magica. It isn't a D20 system, but it has all of the positives you say of this game. It is basically a "mage's coven simulator" designed by the guy who made 3e DnD before he was hired by Wizards. It's also not setting specific (though it is primarily designed around a fantasy version of medieval Europe).

[@jerichojeudy]

I think I read it a long time ago. It's the one with companions as non mages and each player gets multiple PCs but only one mage?

[@jimmydesouza4375]

@@jerichojeudy That is the one, though you don’t need to have multiple chars, that is just an option for if you want to lean heavily into the scholarly side of magic. Also companions can be mages just not hermetic mages, and this can cause story hooks and such. Though also you might be thinking of an earlier edition. I am only familiar with 5e

[@mzako7448]

Fair video. No system is perfect. If it was, we'd all play it. For me, D&D still wins because it is not tied to a setting and supports more different styles of games as you pointed out, but if Free League ever releases a Symbaroum for more generic fantasy I'll reconsider :D

[@jerichojeudy]

That’s a cool idea! And I would suggest to the designers to make the Abilities and Traits simpler for NPCs, because GMing multiple NPCs with many different Abilities among themselves can be a challenge.

[@j.alexandermyersen1176]

@Matthias Zako If you aren’t aware, there is a 5E edition of Symbaroum out now for D&D, with 3 well written and richly designed sourcebooks.

[@gendor5199]

Do you find it easy to make up interesting plots in Symbaroum? I am constantly worried I will have missed some detail in some book that will change the nature of the official campaign that I want my players to experience along with my own sheisse. At the same time I struggle with interesting plots for the faction and politics of the game, like what will be interesting things, and how to stop my players from becoming overpowered too early from in-between adventures.

[@jerichojeudy]

Good points all around! I must say I’m a forever GM and have multiple decades of experience, and I’m a professional tv and film director as well. So creating story and drama has become natural to me. My first counsel would be to stop being afraid of ´breaking’ canon. If you like what you’re building, keep at it! No printed material will be better, because you are tailoring it to your taste and your player’s tastes. And you’re the only one to know what your table really likes. Regarding Symbaroums very spread out lore, I would also recommend using the command F option on your computer, ideally at folder level, to scan all your PDFs at once, when you wonder: what do we know about X. Lastly, the Symbaroum Discord is full of very helpful GMs that know the lore really well. So you’ll get quality guidance over there, really easily.

[@Chris3s]

Do you have any experience with multiple actions per turn systems like PF2e? What do you think of those? I like the flexibility of it, but not sure if the benefit outweighs the balancing and time to take your turn.

[@jerichojeudy]

Yeah, I play some games that have multiple actions, but most go for the Move Action + Combat Action combo or a variation of that type and I must say I prefer games where turns move fast around the table. It's more engaging and exciting for players when things go round faster. IMO.

[@j.alexandermyersen1176]

I just got Symbaroum for 5E and I am extremely impressed and captivated by it. I will eventually buy the original system as well. My table is going to be starting a campaign in Ambria and Davokar in about a month or so, so I am very excited. It is just so rich in concepts, characters, factions, and story hooks, while also being free and open to interpretation and your own direction. The prose/writing is well crafted and not shallow. I will be modifying D&D to make the game feel more dangerous, like the original system. Truly a masterclass in how to design a world setting. Go check it out folks.

[@jerichojeudy]

I agree, the setting is outstanding.

[@hellsente7826]

I'm putting Symbaroum, mostly true to the setting, in a part of my homebrew campaign setting. I'm not interested in the 5e version. I wonder which game systems Symbaroum could easily be adapted into? I'm not sure if I want my main campaign to be like Adventurer Conqueror King, or Castles and Crusades, or Basic... which would be an easier system to convert Symbaroum into?

[@jerichojeudy]

That's quite the question! You are starting a campaign and are still choosing which system to use, is that it? Do you have any preferences? Because if you keep the Symbaroum setting as is, the Symbaroum OG rules are the best fit, IMO. On the other hand, there is a fan adaptation to the Forbidden Lands rules out there somewhere that might interest you.

[@hellsente7826]

@@jerichojeudy I'm mostly just interested in putting the areas of Symb into an area of my campaign world. The rules are a secondary concern. I'm not sure which rules I want to run yet. I was going to use 5e, but yeah... don't want it tied to WotC's control in any way or support that debacle in the future. Forbidden Lands looks awesome too, and that's actually long the lines of how I would want to run my campaign (survivalist exploration). ... I just want to know which 5e-like systems Symbaroum could be easily converted to.

[@xagemox]

Symbaroum has several important parts. The corruption that darkens the world. The unknown and mysterious creatures are unusual and nothing is as you think. Different factions are trying to achieve different goals and you never know if what you are doing is right. This makes the world feel exciting in all aspects and you can always come across something unexpected that you haven't heard of.

[@TheFefiurek]

Even the D&D's advantages you listed make me think that Symbaroum should be a better choice. Especially the looser structure. Just hope it's not too overwhelming for a beginning GM lol

[@jerichojeudy]

I think it may be a mouthful for a beginning GM. But then again, many games are. :)

[@xagemox]

GMs dont roll =D in the original

[@jerichojeudy]

@@xagemox Yeah, and I love that, personally!

[@joelrefano5577]

Ciao, ad oggi dopo averlo giocato e masterato con amici ed Online posso confermare che Symbaroum è anche il mio D&D, detto questo buon game a tutti !

[@alicemursteinlesbefaen666]

this sounds like a fun game, i'd love to try it. i'll always like playing dnd, but i've begun exploring different systems recently, as a gamemaster i'm a bigger fan of systems with less crunchy rules and less focus on combat, as the collaborative freeform storytelling is my favourite part of rpgs. you mentioned that combat is much faster than in dnd, which seems like a plus, but how fun is it? dnd combat takes a long while but has the potential for very interesting tactical thinking with the large amount of player actions, abilities and spells, but most of that is more fun for people who know the rules well and have played for long. is symbaroum combat both fun for newer players and people with a lot of knowledge of the rules and mechanics?

[@jerichojeudy]

Symbaroum is my D&D because it does share a lot with D&D, even on the combat side. You can totally play Symbaroum tactically and Abilities will make you favour certain tactics over others, so you’ll need to move into position to make better use of your best Abilities, etc. It’s really fun. It’s not a super light super fast narrative combat system.

[@alicemursteinlesbefaen666]

@@jerichojeudy cool! thanks for the answer. sounds like something i’d like to try out, currently i have three campaigns going on in various systems, so i probably won’t buy any of the books myself in quite a while but i’ll keep an eye out if anyone else is running a symbaroum game near me

[@jerichojeudy]

@@alicemursteinlesbefaen666 I think you can find a free QuickStart on Drivethru, I should check… Sometimes giving that to a friendly DM can get them interested in running a one shot… ;)

[@alicemursteinlesbefaen666]

@@jerichojeudy oh cool!

[@Frederic_S]

Blades in the Dark is my D&D 😎

[@jerichojeudy]

A great game indeed!

[@rlmarin1968]

For me…Symbaroum is more of a mix between Game of Thrones and The Witcher. Regardless…it’s a really frickin cool game.

[@jerichojeudy]

Certainly is!

[@venusboys3]

The rules for Symbaroum are OK, but for myself, I think I'd like the setting from Symbaroum in a system like Mythras.

[@jerichojeudy]

That could work I think!

[@Andyyybeeeee]

They have a 5E version now right ? best of both worlds :)

[@jerichojeudy]

They do! But I wouldn't say that... :) People say its very good, too.

[@Andyyybeeeee]

@@jerichojeudy I have seen good reviews of the 5e version and have been tempted by what appears to be a slightly dark setting =)

[@griselame]

Good old Montréal :)

[@billcedarheath387]

Could you please provide a link to the Symbaroum Discord channel you mentioned?

[@jerichojeudy]

discord.gg/davokar-explorers-league-401618685908746241 Here you go!

[@billcedarheath387]

@@jerichojeudy Thanks for posting it. 🏆

[@WookieeRage]

Archetypes. There are Archetypes that help players focus their character creation to fit the various troupes in class fantasy RPGs. But as you commented, these aren't as deeply developed as D&D character classes.

[@jerichojeudy]

Absolutely not. They serve as guides to understand how to focus the biuild of your PC. And they provide fluff for your backstory and personality.

[@WookieeRage]

@@jerichojeudy thank you. I misunderstood the material.

[@antheaxe7340]

hope you mean the real symbaroum and Ruins of Symbaroum tha just symbaroum world but with dnd rules

[@jerichojeudy]

@@antheaxe7340 Yeah, the real Symbaroum.

[@misomiso8228]

I Don't understand - doesn't symbarum use the 5e system? if so how is the 'hit point bag' solved? Ty

[@jerichojeudy]

Ruins of Symbaroum is the 5e compatible version of the game. In this video, I'm talking about the Symbaroum original game which doesn't use 5e rules.

[@HujraadJohaansen]

HiBRiD has these features as well

[@jerichojeudy]

HiBRiD? Never heard of that game. What genre is it?

[@groovinhooves]

I can think of **ONE** rather major problem right now that adopting any system other than D&D would solve for a lot of folks (don't worry, I won't say anything more: it shouldn't be necessary, anyway).

[@groovinhooves]

I'm usually not **ONE** for overstatement...

[@jerichojeudy]

😅

[@8Sigurd]

I love their dark and gritty world, I love how much limits the magic gets, I love the freedom of its system mechanics.. But goddamn, the rules are written poorly. The description of almost every ability leaves so many questions, and the balance is impossible to adequately play as is - there are builds that allow a level 0 newbie to one-shot a boss-type enemy.

[@jerichojeudy]

True! It is version 1 of the game. They never updates the rules. I surely hope they will do so with Free League's team behind the effort, we could get rules that are more streamlined and just written better. As for Bosses, they did seem to realize that bosses need more Toughness, and later in the books started to use a new trait, Sturdy. :) I recommend adding that to your bosses as needed. As for one shotting enemies, I rather like that enemies mostly go down in one or two shots, because it speeds up combat. But rounded numbers for NPC damage and armour gives a big advantage to the PCs, especially when the NPC would normally benefit from multiple dice. I suggest adding one or two to base damage and armour values in those cases.

[@thekaxmax]

So, like GURPS but with levels and a d20

[@jerichojeudy]

There are no levels in Symbaroum. You just earn XP and buy Abilities and Powers or upgrade them to develop your character.

[@fbibarbie]

symbaroum is much better than dnd it's not even close

[@kori228]

it seems a bit too low/gritty fantasy for me

[@jerichojeudy]

It's actually very high fantasy. But it is gritty.

[@flavorgod]

I love Symbaroum setting and art bit the system is kinda bad

[@jerichojeudy]

Depends where you come from, I guess. But yeah, the system still feels fan project for certain things, it’s not polished and super developed yet. Still V1 after all. But I like it. Suits me and a dozen other folks. ;)

[@jerichojeudy]

Have you considered trying RoS? Just curious.

[@nathanielpatrick3766]

Literally so many games better than dnd

[@jerichojeudy]

Oh yeah!

[@sirellyn]

Most of the things you liked about Sumbaroum over D&D, I prefer in D&D. 1. Game world - Meh, this could go either way. This one is fine. 2. I like the numbers going up. It shows progression. Its measurable and easy to identify. The numbers never get to MMO numbers (in the quadrillions) so it's still easy enough to manage. 3. I HATE open class systems. Makes everyone as interesting (to me) as grey goo. You don't really have a role, or a speciality over what you kinda crafted for your character. There's nothing you have that anyone else couldn't get. You are as cheap as a figit spinner at a flea market. I'm especialy annoyed at "be whatever you want" with today's generation. You CAN'T be whatever you want. There will be some things you are naturally good at, and some things you straight up will never be able to do. Play well with the cards you were dealt with rather than, feeling some delusion that will just make you and people around you miserable. It cheapens the crap out of magic. Gah. I could go off for hours on how this is horrible. For this reason alone I'd never play a system like that. 4. Setting. Sounds great! 2 and 3 are dealbreakers though. Secrets for DM also good. But it's been in use in lots of D&D modules. Still a good practise. I appreciate the excitement some has in bringing in new systems. So thanks for that.

[@jerichojeudy]

You should give this open class system a chance, because the game has archetypes, and the way Abilities are done doesn’t result in a party of grey goo, I assure you. Quite the contrary! For example, my group has a Goblin self taught cleric, a lady Templar of Prios (paladin if you will), a Barbarian ranger type, a Changeling Witch and scout, a pyromancer mage, a tinkerer mage, an Ogre ritualist with soul bond powers, two flaming servants (enchanted suits of armour).

[@Skiamakhos]

"It cheapens the crap out of magic. " Oh you have no idea... In Symbaroum magic always comes at a cost. You have a temporary threshold, which if you go over you will get a temporary corruption effect. If you go over your permanent threshold you'll get a permanent effect, like a limb might mutate, or you get a disfiguring skin condition or something. Go too far with this and you become an Abomination & your character is forfeit - they're now a monster.

[@Mr.RobotHead]

Interestingly, my experience (and opinion) with open class (or more appropriately "classless") systems is the opposite of yours. That's especially true for my experience with Symbaroum. I've found that players create a wide array of characters to form a diverse party, just as if they were picking character classes. The big difference is there's more room for variation from the class definition, and giving a character a skill that wouldn't normally be associated with a set class. As an example, in the Symbaroum game I'm playing in, our party consists of a Cleric, a Witch, a Barbarian, and a Hunter (archetypes / general "class"). We absolutely all have roles. We're also not completely limited to those roles, and a couple of players have picked up "outside" skills that the overall party lacked. I also don't feel it cheapens magic, especially not in Symbaroum. In Symbaroum a character pretty much needs to specialize in magic (ie, put all of their skills into various magic skills) in order to not accidentally kill themselves with it. I'm playing the Hunter in our game. I COULD take a magic skill, at the expense of taking a skill that builds on what I can already do. Actually USING that magic is likely to have very bad side effects that my character cannot withstand. So, for me, magic feels much more rare, dangerous, and mystical than in D&D where nearly every class gets some sort of spell list or magic ability. But obviously, experiences vary greatly. Since you've got some dealbreakers, but the setting sounds interesting, maybe take a look at the 5e version of Symbaroum. I haven't looked at it, but I'm guessing it keeps classes and levels. I'm not sure how well that works, though, as the original Symbaroum setting and system go hand-in-hand in creating the horror aspect of the game.

[@Skiamakhos]

@@Mr.RobotHead yeah, just reading through the core rules last night I was looking at different ways to spec out a witch, or a ninja-like assassin, or a tanky berserker. There's so much flexibility I think people willlargely look at what they want their characters to be rather than be cookie-cutter meta characters.

[@kosterix123]

It’s irrelevant. You go with whatever is available. There is no best system and it’s all about the dm and players.

[@jerichojeudy]

Thank you for this opinion! But I can also tell you that from a DM standpoint, DMing a system that is geared towards the type of game you want to run helps a million.

[@ObfuscateMoon]

lmao this guy played 5e caster once and gave up

[@Jergal1]

Salut! Vive Montréal!

[@jerichojeudy]

Yé! Salut!

[@Jergal1]

@@jerichojeudy Je serais bien curieux d'essayer ce système un jour 😎 En ce moment je fais un retour au racine. Je DM une game de Old-School Essentials pour une petite table de joueur dans Villeray