Why the Brachialis Muscle Causes Biceps and Elbow Pain in Climbers

[@HoopersBeta]

Who always sticks around for the bloopers at the end? #gumbylife

[@StickyPaw]

I do. Where is that boulder in the thumbnail tho?!? Looks 🔥

[@HoopersBeta]

@@StickyPaw That's Can Opener on the Visor boulder at Black Mountain, CA :)

[@elfriederich]

I'm only here to watch the bloopers...

[@ajithsidhu7183]

@@HoopersBeta i feel weak outside biceps i can do 59 chin do but 1 pull up how do.i fix it

[@KSSyu13]

Bleep bloop bleep blop.

[@nicholaspakaluk8455]

Thanks for the video! I developed brachialis pain last spring when I started climbing again for the first time in two years. I was doing a lot of pullups, but I stopped training with pullups altogether due to the pain. Then about a month ago I found out I could do chinups without brachialis pain, and I've been doing lots of chinups. My brachialis has never felt better, and I feel pain there very rarely now. I'm not sure why chinups accelerated the healing of my brachialis, but I'm sure glad I can still train my back without pain in my arm.

[@andrewmccullough559]

Same - brachialis strain. Standard pull-ups cause moderate discomfort, but chin-ups or inward facing grip causes none. I think it's because the brachilias is a primary supinator -- it externally rotates the hand (to palm-up position). This is how they diagnosis brachilias strain: fully internally rotate your palm, which maximally elongates the brachialis, then flex the elbow. It should hurt a lot more. In the standard pull-up, the palm is somewhat internally rotated, putting a greater stretch on the brachilias. Even if it's not being recruited more throughout the range of motion, since the hands remain internally rotated, it's still being stretched more.

[@christopherribar1504]

wish I had watched this video sooner! I ruptured my distal biceps tendon a few weeks ago from over climbing/training and not taking well enough care of myself. Would love to hear a video and your thoughts on "are you training too much?" or what a "good" climbing/training schedule might look like...

[@VicLeTueurFouDu69]

This channel is way too good. Thank you for this content!

[@Keepswimming....123]

I’m not a climber but I was doing cable pulls like you describe at 4:20. I was on a row machine pulling without control and shooting forward. So FYI it can happen if you’re on a row machine.

[@TheDavveponken]

Same here. Didn't notice anything doing the exercise, but developed a very stiff tendon the following days and week. Last night my dumbass self thought it'd be a good idea to stretch it by pushing down on it in my armpit - and sure enough there was a tiny pop. Absolutely terrifying, but it didn't tear conpletely it seems. So if it's stiff, don't stretch it excessively...

[@davidc.7838]

@@TheDavveponkenhow are you doing now? How long your recovery took?

[@TheDavveponken]

@@davidc.7838 I tore it partially near the elbow from passive hanging I think. There was some minor bleeding but I've been afraid to do any real work. So I've made a great recovery. I do everyday stuff fine but haven't pushed it at all. I'm gonna soon. I tore my hamstring a few years ago and it seems to rake roughly a year before you can put pressure on it again. Sry to not be of more help

[@jasminklebic7306]

This was spot on, I am canoe sprint athlete, and I do a lot of biceps and forearm workout . And now after season I have this injury for a more than 1 month, when I do biceps curl I feel that my muscle is out of position, Now I am on full rest + ice and massages. - The thing that injured me was probably grip exercises

[@nbka8rs]

You guys really should have a lot more subs. Keep up the good work man, the only way is up!!!

[@HoopersBeta]

Just have to keep grinding! Thanks for the support.

[@user-sm9zs7sc8u]

Thank you so much!! You are the only person in the entire internet that talked about exactly my problem, and not just about tennis/golfer ellbow. I have specifically pain in the deep head of the biceps brachialis. I can reach the spot with my thumb, it’s below the bicep tendon, I „push it aside“ and below that, I feel a muscle , and if I press against it, I fell the exact pain. I feel the pain when I initiate ellbow flexion or when I extend my ellbow in the almost fully extended position, so these last centimeters of extension, which is another indicator for the deep biceps brachialis head. It fits both perfectly. I will do eccentric exercises and massage that spot, thank you so much, because I wasn’t understanding where my problem was exactly, so I was focusing on my forearm muscles, which was wrong!

[@HoopersBeta]

I'm happy that this video helped! I hope you heal well.

[@user-sm9zs7sc8u]

@@HoopersBeta thank you. In the last 2 months, I’ve completely stopped doing pull ups and now I started doing them again very slowly to try and strengthen the injured area back. It’s quite depressing since I was doing up to 20 KG extra on pull ups and now I can do only 10 times bodyweight, but it is worth it because a long lasting injury I’ve had for years is veeery slowly getting better. I’m not even a climber, I really only got the injury from heavy weighted pull ups.

[@m1ke896]

Exactly my problem. At the beginning I thought it was the pronator teres tendon, then doing some research came across the brachilis and doing exactly what you do as being make things better for me

[@JosephTurkot]

Did you manage to find a routine to heal this? I’m climbing and feel what I think is this pain in my left (weaker) arm. Wondering if you took time off from climbing or other strategies to heal it? Thanks!

[@LaptopiaLTD]

Thank you for the outstanding content! How is it possible for a channel of this calibre not to have more views and subscribers?

[@HoopersBeta]

We're going to take off any day now.... aaannnnyyyy day..... ;) But really, we are just stoked on the community that is already here! It's been fun answering all of the questions and putting this content out there for those that do know us!

[@LaptopiaLTD]

@@HoopersBeta This is very kind of you. Thank you! To assist and spread you wonderful work I've been sharing your content on multiple social platforms.

[@crazypeeps7218]

This is basically the welcoming pain to arm wrestling.

[@elfriederich]

You definitely deserve more subscriber! Very well researched and relevant videos 👌

[@HoopersBeta]

Thank you! Appreciate the support.

[@kivancacar]

Best video issued if not the only one mentioning this uncommon injury. Thank you very much. I think this might be the problem I've been dealing in the last few years. Pain I feel is near my elbow, in lateral side of my distal biceps attachment. Symptoms and testings are compatible with brachialis injury. Deeply tipping with my fingers, I can feel an achy spot there. In my case, wide grip pronated pullups is the main cause of the pain to arise, and Biceps Curls (especialy heavy d/b curl and straight bar curls) contribute to make things worse. Workout variations and extra rest days surely help but sooner or later I end up with not being able to perform any pull exercise except some rowing variations. All year around, one of my arms is usualy down from the same problem, left arm being the recent one. I feel cable pull downs/rows are less destructive than pull-ups. Same is true for ez-bar curls, instead of dumbell curls or strenght bar curls, but as I mentioned, my training suffers from long periods of inactivity. Any other suggestions?

[@HoopersBeta]

Just to be certain I would also check out our video about nerve tension and make sure you don't have issues with that as well. If the pain persists I would recommend seeing a professional to help get you on a specific rehab plan. Happy that this video was/is helpful though and hopefully all of your issues get sorted!

[@LePetitBat]

How is it going now?

[@harrysack9164]

Thank You!! During quarentine really had no choice but to do pullups. My pullups and back blew up in size and strength. Alot of work with the 40lb vest. Now starting to feel that inner/upper bicep paib when i do pullups, ive been laying off them. When i return to doing them i will try pulling more from my the back

[@rkdxs3338]

The same happened to me- I was obsessed with doing many pullups and wrecked by upper arms (elbow to shoulder). Taking breaks didn't help, because the repetitive motion is what dos the harm. What saved me was switching from high volume pulling training to low volume high intensity (OAP) and doing antagonist shoulder training. I hope this helps.

[@harrysack9164]

@@rkdxs3338 thank you brother!! I took some time off and returned, tried using a bit more lats less bicep, and started from the bottom again, lowering volume, reps and weight like u said and have been slowly progressing week by week. Also stretching just a tiny bit between sets seems to help. I will also try your recommendations, thanks again!!

[@vtheory7531]

Thanks for such an informative explanation! I've been having a combination of anterior delt and bicep pain since I got back into climbing, which I chalked it up to "doing too much too soon" (training more often and longer than before) and also poor technique where I'm using too much arm and not enough legs. I took a break from bouldering and had a couple of sessions with my physio to strengthen my external rotator cuff and loosen my pectorals (to correct my posture), and my shoulder seemed to have improved a bit. I then did a short bouldering session, and I notice a loss of strength and a twinge of pain on my brachialis which negatively impacted my climbs. So now I'm working on loading my bicep to rebuild strength and get it working without pain again. Fingers crossed the recovery will work!

[@BananaHammyForYou]

Best video I've seen on the topic thanks. I'm trying to diagnose my injury and struggling. All of the tests in your video caused no pain. I do have sharp pain while pronating my straight arm into a thumbs down position which intensifies as I bring it to my side (making a T with my body). Hopefully that description makes sense. The pain is around my bicep close to the elbow, 1-2 inches away.

[@pippilangstrumpf1713]

i am interested as well, i am expiriencing the same "problem" :)

[@HenryLee7997]

Finally. Maybe the only video about this type of injury. I'm going crazy with this. 1 year ago I started climbing and after a while I had to stop because the pain was too much (only while climbing and for no more than 30/40 minutes after). After 7 months, same story: at the beginning no problem, after 3/4 times, same pain. Stopped, and after 4 more months, again, same story. In the middle a neurosurgeon told that the pain was caused by compression of brachial nerve due to a c5/c6 hernia and that the surgery would have solved that. Done that, but after 4 months of rehab, as I wrote above, the pain returned when I started climbing again. Electromyography and ultrasound were both clear. No pain around the shoulder, no pain around or inside the elbow, only where you indicate in the video. No positive response to tests, but maybe because i have pain almost only while climbing, could that be the reason? I sincerely don't know what to do, anymore. The physiotherapist doesn't know what to think, eaither. Any other advice would be godsend, guys.

[@HoopersBeta]

There may still be tons you can do for this! It really just depends on what you have tried already. Hard to make a great recommendation here though. See if you can find a PT in your area that specializes in rock climbing or check out our website and shoot us an email. Sorry to hear about all your issues though! Definitely not fun :/

[@markc6571]

Great video. Ive been dealing with pain in the brachialis at outside elbow joint. Been using a lacrosse ball to roll vertically on a wall prior to doing pull ups. It has helped, but it's a stubborn muscle to heal. Thinking about seeing a physiotherapist. Most likely caused from doing too much volume with bad form.

[@Openroad_project]

This video finally made a concept click for me. For a long time I have had distal bicep tendinitis in the left elbow. I could treat and prevent the pain by using a rice bucket for forearm extensor exercises, but if I stopped doing that the pain would come back within a few weeks or so. About a year ago I started working on one arm hangs with the focus of retracting my scapula down and back (one arm hangs with shoulders parallel with the floor) and it turns out I was terrible at doing this on my left side but good on my right. I figured there could be a connection between that weak shoulder and my elbow pain, but never put it together until 3:00 into this video. Hopefully strengthening my left shoulder in the correct position will be a more Permanent to solution to my elbow pain than the rice bucket. Amazing videos! Excited to see this channel explode soon.

[@HoopersBeta]

That's awesome! Way to synthesize the information and apply it to your injury. Great awareness and I hope this significantly improves your issue!

[@Within_Clarity]

Wow! Thank you so much this is so incredibly helpful!

[@HoopersBeta]

Glad to hear it!

[@johnbonjovi410]

awesome, super helpful, and understandable. Thanks Hooper, I love and appreciate your videos and knowledge.

[@Justusperthes]

I've been looking around for info on this stuff! Thanks a lot for this useful video :)

[@jacknearing5283]

I'm severely guilty of being all cave, all undercling, all side pull, all the time.

[@HoopersBeta]

Get it together, Jack 😉 But I mean really, if you love it and you're staying injury free .... Keep doing what you love.

[@stroudsportsmassageinjuryr3860]

Fantastic explanation, I really appreciate the detail. Very nice tip with testing, not from below the wrist but pressure from the forearm. Any chance of video like this regarding possible brachioradialis injury/tendenosis. I’ve self diagnosed myself with that and found rehabing it with eccentric pronated and neutral bicep curls to be the key for me at least. But to be honest from what i can see the origin of the brachioradialis and the origin of the the lower lateral portion of the brachialis are next to each other. I certainly get pain in the belly of the brachioradialis so that’s a sure sign but also some aching deeper around the brachialis. I wonder about the relationship between the too muscles. Too much time on underclings in a cave was the cause, so you nailed it there. About to start training as a sports therapist so awesome to see someone applying their knowledge base to climbing as I would like to in the future.

[@HoopersBeta]

Good question! There is definitely a relationship. The brachioradialis works in concert with both the brachialis and the biceps brachii, it is somewhat more active in the nuetral and pronated forearm positions since the biceps brachii is not at it's mechanically advantaged position, but it is not a "prime" elbow flexor like the brachialis and/or biceps brachii. You did well with your own rehab of eccentrics in pronated and neutral position based on it's function! It also does a lot of work helping initiating both pronation and supination so it can be quite active in tasks that involve both those motions (particularly when the elbow is partially flexed) so think like, a screw driver. as well as rapid tasks such as hammering (all those home improvement projs) lol.

[@stroudsportsmassageinjuryr3860]

Hooper's Beta thanks for the answer and taking the time to reply. I’m spreading the word on your channel to friends, you’re informing and helping a lot of people, much appreciated.

[@kschorr83]

@@HoopersBeta What kind of weight should you be using for the eccentric bicep curls?

[@alexguy01]

I just found out about brachialis strain from David Macleod's book, "Make or Break". After having elbow pain for about a year and a half, I don't think treating it as golfer's elbow has been all that helpful. This video is great but was hoping for more exercises or other things I can do to get over the injury.

[@HoopersBeta]

Glad you found the video useful. In a case like yours having been dealing with it for 1.5 years, you made need more individualized advice specific to your injury.

[@markyfreakinjay8724]

I do tree work. This involves climbing and gripping all day long everyday... what can I do to ease brachialis pain without giving up the work I love??

[@Dendearts]

This is awesome. So much info. thanks!

[@johnbonjovi410]

Do you have any ideas of what the eccentric exercises / motion looks like? thanks, love all your videos!

[@FenixDown147]

@5:10

[@treywl740]

Always love this type of content on injury prevention and rehabilitation! I had a question about some wrist/forearm pain that I was wondering if you might be able to help a little with! I’ve greatly increased the amount of hangboard training and pull-ups I’ve been doing due to quarantine, and I *think* I might be starting to develop tendonitis in my ECU... I’m no expert but certain parts of my range of motion (especially pronation and supination) hurt quite a lot in my wrist and the outer portion of my forearm near to the wrist. It’s particularly painful under weight bearing or near the top of a pull-up on my hangboard, although it does hurt just like all the time. Anyways, I love your content and was just wondering if you have any immediate familiarity with this or advice for me! Thanks.

[@HoopersBeta]

Hey, I would check out this other video we made on TFCC injuries to make sure you don't have that going on. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2GrkHuAmLJksLM Pronation/supination, pain with weightbearing, and at the top of the pull up on a often times more narrow hangboard we are likely getting ulnar deviation which can all add up to a TFCC injury. If the video doesn't help and your symptoms don't match up, and it does appear to be more of an ECU injury, you need to pay attention to the positioning of your wrist during your hangs and pulls and you may need to do some cross training as well (we have made follow up videos regarding wrist stability/strength training as well).

[@hugohugohugohugo4800]

Do you have a video on the wrist flexor pain you mentioned in the video?

[@JNeathawk]

Thank you! Very comprehensive

[@HoopersBeta]

Thanks! That’s the goal 😁

[@talilkr5238]

I feel a sharp pull towards the portion where the arm bends i.e the crease. It is towards the brachia side. I feel it more when I do skull crushers or any heavy triceps exercise and also pull ups. What couldit be?

[@piter1196]

it's the first time I see parts of the video marked in the bar. cool mechanic

[@HoopersBeta]

I know right!? We thought it was pretty neat too

[@piter1196]

@@HoopersBeta weeell I know one more video platform where it was implememented a while ago ;)

[@coffca]

Ohh this happened to me when I started climbing, couldn't really figure out what was happening, but this is what makes most sense now, too much cave and poor technique. It was a strong numbing pain in the middle of the upper arm, mostly outside.

[@teamhyperplasia1368]

One year with pain in supinating position when testing ... anything I can do to help it ? Trying acupuncture tomorrow. Will try ultrasound also soon. Feeling helpless in canada quebec ...

[@TheRaveUnity]

So what’s being indicated, when applied resistance to the hand in a pronated position creates pain above my elbow on the lateral side ? When resistance to the wrist comes up negative for pain? Also will mention that I do have tender spots on lateral and medial brachialis if pressing or kneeding.

[@HoopersBeta]

Not sure I follow with your description of where the pressure is created. If I'm interpreting it correctly could be more of an extensor digitorum probably but again, not sure if I am following your description properly.

[@MorrisB3]

Thanks! All the videos I checked and got led to saying Bicep Tendonitis. Ha. No shoulder issues so I doubted that. Icing on end really seems to make a difference. Oh it still hurts. Lmao but it's more manageable. Sincerely, in Texas with no health insurance

[@montela5078]

Did u recover?

[@DonaldGaron]

What would you do if median nerve is compressed by the flexor digitorum superficialis and/or the biceps? I think that's what's going on in my case. Hurts especially when I bend elbow and when I supinate. MRI shows 0 tendon damage at medial epicondyle (pain is always felt in that area, close to the bone).

[@HoopersBeta]

Check out our nerve videos, we have a couple. Pay extra attention to the ulnar nerve one since you state more pain with elbow bending.

[@DonaldGaron]

Update! My PT found that the biceps, the aponeurosis and the pronator teres were all stuck with adhesions. We're pretty confident taking care of those will fix my pain!@@HoopersBeta

[@thealmightyoragutan612]

Had a labrum tear repaired 10 years ago. Brachialis is smaller than my other side and isn’t growing when I lift. Can you share thoughts on this?

[@johnbonjovi410]

I do have that mid upper arm pain that makes me believe it is the brachialis not the biceps!

[@guybien4621]

Thanks so much. Without trying to ask for too much, are there any other causes of pain in the areas you mentioned that you see commonly?

[@HoopersBeta]

Absolutely. A flexible digitorum superficialis or profundus injury, joint synovitis, lumbrical stains, etc. A fall could produce a volar plate injury or avulsion fracture but avulsion injuries are far less common. The most common are the pulley and FDP injuries, though.

[@guybien4621]

Hooper's Beta thanks very much

[@samuelbernier517]

Hello! I've been having huge issues with my brachialis on both arms from rock climbing for at least 3 months now. I've had a few appointments with a PT and she told me to do a few sets of pronated + hammer + supinated curls every day and to do scapular pull ups to learn to engage my back more. I've also done brachialis release exercise with a ball a few times a week for like a month. It really helps to reduce the pain when I do it but as soon as I climb more than 1 hour it comes back and the pain is so bad that I have to stop. I climb 2-3 times a week and I try to stop climbing before the pain appears to make my muscles used to climbing (at this point I've been climbing for like 8 months, why does my brachialis keep doing this...). Is there anything else I can do? I don't feel like it's getting much better and I've been trying to fix this for 2+ months now :(

[@JosephTurkot]

Did you find a solution for this?

[@robertomaligni]

19 months with pain in every pronaned pulling movement, and nothing seems to help

[@totothecat]

You've explained the risks, symptoms and treatment very well! I would like to know if we should strenghen the brachialis specifically for performance? There's a youtube video titled "Drew Ruana Teaches Climbing Strength" where he targets it with some exercises. Is it a good idea? Thanks!

[@HoopersBeta]

Yeah definitely, it can be helpful. If you can work it into your routine without overloading the tissue it can have it's benefits will pulling, lock offs, stabilization, etc. You just need to watch the volume of your training. If you are pumped and it is affecting your climbing, that's not a benefit. If you tie it in to the end of your routine and you know you have a day or two off to recover, awesome. The same can be said with any training though, it shouldn't be taking away from your climbing, it should be complimenting it.

[@ryanwood6407]

Hi, have you ever come across the symptom where it feels like the whole arm has like an intense dull ache lasting for about an hour after stopping. It feels quite hard to pinpoint where the pain is radiating from exactly .. I had this come on randomly whilst climbing (pretty moderate In intensity). I appreciate this way come across quite vague. Thanks in advance!

[@user-ei4bn9t]

I've just stumbled across this video while searching for my vague symptoms and experience a similar issue to this, except mine seems to be brought on by messing around doing monkey bars with bent arms. However I have no issues in the gym when training pullups, rows, or curls.

[@Villianova]

Dude, please tell me that you're not a doctor or have been to medical school because the human brachialis is not even on that side of the arm. It's on the outer side of the arm between the bicep and tricep. I have watched hundreds of videos over the years specifically for bodybuilding and the brachialis and you are the only person that has ever pointed at this part of the arm and said that is the brach. You literally pointed at where the bicep, tricep and forearm connect on the inner arm and just randomly called it brachialis. I laughed my ass off When you said there's no pictures of the double-headed brachialis on the internet. You don't even know what the brach actually looks like on top of where it even is.

[@HoopersBeta]

😆 what Emile meant when he wrote there were no pictures of it that means there are no free pictures. You can't just take any picture off the Internet and use it as your own so the supply of available pictures is limited. Also the brachialis can be palpated on the inside and outside as it sits directly under the bicep. So, what I'm pointing to is not wrong. We welcome comments on this channel but please refrain from the negative/attacking comments when you yourself may not have all the correct information.

[@andrewmccullough559]

What do you mean "not even on that side of the arm"? The first diagram, at 1:15, shows the brachialis (blue) underneath and somewhat distal to the biceps (red). It is, as you say, between the biceps and triceps, but it is a broad muscle and has a portion medial to the biceps as well as lateral to it, because it is wider. As Hooper said, your attack-style comment is unwarranted even if you were right. But to be derisive and wrong at the same time, appealing to countless hours watching bodybuilding videos (to no avail, it seems, judging from your photo), is a positively terrible look! For your own sake, mate, lay off the sneering tone. If you're going to sneer a little, as I'm doing here, do it more playfully instead of in feigned indignation about a person's credentials. Then watch the full video and get the information right.

[@HimanshuGupta-nt6kl]

Open an anatomy book first before you make yourself look ridiculous next time.

[@Hady_2424]

This is godsend. Thanks