Why The Browning Hi Power Magazine "Safety" Is Particularly Awful...

[@BlokeontheRange]

In case I didn't bring it out enough in the video, the trigger pull is atrocious due to the sprung plate sliding on the front of the mag and removing the damn thing makes it all much, much better :)

[@ambisinisterengineering5242]

A friend of mine shot ipsc with an old browning. It was a bit clapped out but he used to do well but the mag safety was the first thing that got fixed by becoming a spare part that never made it back in reassembly. The slides used to crack on them under the rails by the breach face and near the ejection port but really nice firearms

[@nunyabidniz2868]

If you live somewhere that actual removal may expose you to potential legal issues, it can still be improved mightily by judicious adjustment of spring tension and polishing & lubing the front of magazines and the face of the "shoe" that rides against them...

[@automaticbobcat9166]

Nothing says safety like requiring a soldier to insert an ammunition feeding device into their firearm in order to be able to pull the trigger as part of routine maintenance.

[@BlokeontheRange]

exactly!

[@coolsenjoyer]

Clearly the militaries using Hi-Power should've issued their men with a decocking device that's like outwardly magazine shaped but doesn't actually function as a magazine. Problem solved 😎

[@nirfz]

@@coolsenjoyer 🫡 So at an eqipment check you need to proove that you got your pistol, your magazines, your "magazine shaped device that works for decocking but not as a magazine" in it's seperate pouch so it won't be mistaken for a magazine, your NBC mask, your....

[@mrjockt]

In the R.A.F. we were shown how to just use our finger, if it was long enough, to do the job.

[@luisnunes3863]

It also says: never allow non-users to make rules or draw specifications for any product. Goes double for products with lethal properties! 😁😁👍👍

[@Rileysworld727]

The problem with the magazine safety is that its a mechanical solution to a training issue. Its better to just train people to treat the gun as if its always loaded. If you are going to pull the trigger for dry fire training or reassembly its better to have the magazine removed and to physically check the chamber before pulling the trigger. Ive seen many people "clear the gun" only to put a loaded magazine back in and accidentally chamber a round. That British army training video is exactly why the ability to pull the trigger without inserting a magazine is so important. You should never have a gun and live ammo together while cleaning it.

[@88porpoise]

Part of the issue with the "just train people" idea is that you may have a massive conscript army where they have a relatively short period of service and are expected to be able to be mobilized and sent into combat rapidly without much more training. I am not saying the magazine safety is a good idea, but you can't always provide the ideal amount of training so implementing systems that ideally shouldn't be necessary due to training can make sense.

[@Rileysworld727]

@@88porpoiseThe magazine safety is meant to stop you from pulling out the magazine, thinking you cleared the gun and then accidently shooting the round left in the chamber and it does this. However it creates a new way to have an accidental discharge as after cleaning you may put a loaded magazine in the gun, drop the slide, and pull the trigger as a way to decock the gun. The only safe way to decock a gun with a magazine safety is to drop the slide first, then load the mag, and then pull the trigger. However without an magazine safety on the gun if you follow the basic procedure of 1st remove the magazine, 2nd lock the slide open, 3rd check the chamber, 4th drop the slide, 5th pull the trigger. Then there should be no way the gun can fire after following these steps. I hope that i shed some light on the fact that some training is required no matter what.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Yup. The mag safety increases the likelihood of the gun not being cleared properly. It's a solution looking for a problem and sounds good to people who haven't spent enough quality time around firearms.

[@detritus23]

@@BlokeontheRange That assumes proper training with firearms handling. For those of us who have been properly trained and have been handling firearms properly with regularity, it seems a no-brainer. However, particularly after 2019, I have seen a large number of untrained and dangerously clueless new pistol-owners do unbelievably dangerous (from an experienced firearms handler’s perspective) on the range (I am an RSO). I don’t like magazine safeties, but being in the U.S., where firearms ownership regularly comes without training or interest in training, it can be better than nothing.

[@CandidZulu]

@@88porpoise The problem is really that many people are often very stupid. There has to be redundant safety devices for that reason. I've seen a clip of one officer shoot another in the back with a Glock, since he had the finger on the trigger while walking with the gun in the hand, no threat anywhere in sight. One more safety on the Glock and one officer would not have been shot in the back perhaps.

[@Treblaine]

That "unthinking moment" video is an extraordinary time capsule of what terrible firearms handling used to be normal.

[@TheOz91]

The magazine safety is what reminds me of a scene from the SWAT film (2003; starring Colin Farrell and Samuel L. Jackson) where the main character has a fight with the main antagonist played by Jeremy Renner. Renner's character struggled with Farrell's character over a pistol, and while Farrell's character eventually had control over it, Renner's character had the magazine removed. I then thought "wait, can't you just shoot off the round in the chamber?" as Farrell's character then proceeded to rack the slide and ejects the round from the chamber before fighting hand to hand. Now, I need to check what firearm was used in the scene but if it was a California-compliant pistol, then it would likely have a magazine safety. This is the probably the only time I saw in pop culture where the magazine safety implicitly drives the plot of a film.

[@zyad48]

Making a reply because I'd like to know if you figure it out :o

[@Charstring]

IMFDB says maybe the Kimber Custom TLE II?

[@TheOz91]

@@Charstring That pistol is what LAPD SWAT uses. However, it's a 1911 and those have a grip safety, but not a magazine safety. Therefore, it's most likely that he didn't fire for plot reasons. And he doesn't have the desire to actually shoot the guy, just to kick his ass.

[@zoiders]

Sig P226 Sport.

[@zoiders]

@@TheOz91 The movie uses Kimbers. Jeremy Renners rouge SWAT officer though is packing a stainless Sig P226 Sport with a compensator that bolted to the light rail.

[@alexeywulph7389]

Only problem is, that KZbin is extremely vague with what goes as a "modification of a firearm". They rather rule it as a "manufacture of a firearm", and as one another channel has encountered several times, simply instructing how to field strip a firearm seems to cause that. Which really sucks since that means KZbin simply doesn't want people to be safe with their own arms.

[@krockpotbroccoli65]

The people who run KZbin are like politicians. They just hate guns and gun owners and want all of us disarmed with our mouths on the curb in front of the stasi. If that's their goal, there's really no point in crafting consistent rules on the subject.

[@anomonyous]

Lol. No. KZbin just doesn't want regular people to have any at all.

[@314299]

I removed the magazine safety from my MKII Browning to improve the trigger pull, but had to put it back when I went to shoot in the Canadian National Service Arms competition as they require such things in "issue type" pistols and check to make sure they are present. The "solution" was to polish up the contact points on the magazines, the contact point of the magazine safety. The result was acceptable and could be lived with and I managed to place 2nd in one of the events. A GP35 with a mag safety still has a better trigger than a Glock.

[@Chlorate299]

I've scarsely even held a firearm in my life, and 30 seconds into this video I caught myself wondering who thought that was a good idea.

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

Mag safeties are like forward assists, a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist

[@chpet1655]

Yes best description of the issue

[@Pest789]

The fumbled reload gun disabler and the jam enhancer are definitely like two peas in some sort of pea container.

[@recoilrob324]

The forward assist CAN come in handy at times, but the mag safety on the HP is just atrocious. Having to slide up the front of the magazine is guaranteed to add creep and grittiness to the pull and my HP had it removed as quickly as I could get the gun apart.

[@MellowFellowOfYellow]

Except the forward assist doesn’t ruin the function of an AR-15 if you choose to never use it…..

[@AIRRAID2]

What's going on? An 80's rap ?

[@Hibernicus1968]

I've always loved the Hi Power. Carried one for many years. I've never liked the magazine safety on the pistol. When I joined the police department I worked for twenty-two years ago, I was issued an S&W 6906. That also had a magazine safety, but unlike the Hi Power's version, that one did _not_ prevent speed reloads, and make the trigger pull worse. Different design, different mechanism. So I didn't mind it. The Hi Power's is indeed awful from an ergonomic point of view. But I lived with it in the Hi Power I carried off duty, because for legal reasons, it's a _bad_ idea to remove a factory safety mechanism on any gun you carry for possible use in self-defense. For the one I used to carry, I had those magazines with the mousetrap springs in the base that kick the magazine out. That solved the speed reload problem, but it did nothing about the heavier, mushier trigger that the magazine safety caused. That's why I'm glad that the Springfield Armory SA-35 I now have, has eliminated the much disliked magazine safety. Now I have the best of all possible worlds: a Hi Power, a pistol I love, and shoot well, without the ergonomic compromise of the magazine safety. I've no worry about potential legal consequences of removing it if I ever have to use the pistol in self-defense. The factory itself left it off, so the problem is solved. My SA-35 has far and away the best trigger I've ever felt from a factory-stock Hi Power, and I don't need special magazines to accomplish a speed reload.

[@Hibernicus1968]

An update to this comment -- I have a Belgian Hi Power (.40S&W converted to 9mm so I can shoot +P ammo in it with no worries about durability), but again, for potential liability reasons, I didn't want to remove the magazine disconnect, since I plan to carry this gun. I recently got it back from Cylinder & Slide, who did their fantastic trigger job on the Hi Power, which involves installing a new, and slightly different sear lever. This necessitates drilling a second hole in the slide, because it relocates the roll pin that holds the sear lever in farther aft. This moves the fulcrum on which that lever pivots rearward, and gives you more leverage. It brings the trigger of this Hi Power down to where it's comparable with the trigger pull on the SA-35, even though the magazine disconnect is retained.

[@robertbrandywine]

@@Hibernicus1968 What is the pull weight on your SA-35? I think I saw one tested on KZbin and it was about 6 1/2 pounds.

[@Hibernicus1968]

@@robertbrandywine Right at 5lbs.

[@awmperry]

Mag safeties are also terrible in combat firearms. Having that one chambered round during a mag change can be vital.

[@Simon_Nonymous]

Ah takes me back many years to finding out you couldn't fire the weapon off without a mag in it, and getting my finger up there once I worked out what to do! Still never saw why this was considered a safety feature, it was and is just an annoyance!!

[@88porpoise]

I would assume the theory comes down to two things: 1) We don't want the dumb squaddie assuming the gun is safe because it has no magazine and then blasting his friend with the one in the chamber. 2) You shouldn't ever be firing your pistol without a magazine in it, so let's remove the ability to do so just in case. There are serious issues with those ideas, but they are what I can see as seeming logical at a glance without any in depth thought. It is worth noting that the Hi Power was designed to meet French military requirements from the 1920s, where most of the people involved (both the decision makers and the users) wouldn't have had much experience with automatic pistols (and most of that experience being with .32 Rubys and similar pistols).

[@JaredAF]

When I removed mine it improved the trigger pull incredibly. The weight was lower but more importantly, the trigger was so much smoother with a crisp let off instead of the mushy trigger it had before. The mechanism is so stupid and over-engineered once you look at other mag disconnect safeties out there.

[@1972glm]

In Tiger King, kid who shot himself said something like "it's a Ruger, they don't go off without the clip in!" and put it to his own head and BOOM. So your assessment that with untrained people the magazine disconnect leads them to believe a gun is 'safe' even with a round in the chamber is spot on. A few times cops have used it to disable their duty weapon as it's being taken from them. That's the ONLY scenario I can see a disconnect being helpful, but it's specifically with police that are specifically trained with this specific safety in their sidearms.

[@3of11]

The “clearing barrel” is the best solution the us military uses (a safe direction to pull the trigger in after clearing the weapon). Been plenty of clearing barrels shot over the years. If I need to pull the trigger I like to point it downwards toward my safe door + concrete floor. Yeah it might send shrapnel back at me but it keeps everyone else safe and motivates ones to be really sure it’s clear.

[@zoiders]

The British Army actually has loading/unloading bays. That's a purpose built concrete and brick stop butt with sand in it that you stand in while loading or unloading when coming on or off duty, most have room for two. Its far more safe than a mere barrel as its effectively a 3 foot long indoor rifle range with dedicated firing bays. The video purposely shows abuse of a weapon and poor NSPs. Its not indicative of how NSPs are actually done.

[@spraynpray]

I prefer a piece of ar500 on the floor. Very lazy, which suits me.

[@ColeDedhand]

Little known fact: If you disable the magazine safety on a BHP it will actually blow both your lungs outside your body.

[@dillonc7955]

Gotta watch out for those absolutely devastating 9mm rounds too

[@dmg4415]

My wife had one once, and according to the rules for competition You could never remove a safety feature. I polished the surfaces to shine like mirrors, helped a lot but not totaly. It was changed to a SW39 with alu frame.

[@mencken8]

Back in the day, when I owned a Hi-Power, my first move after buying it was to drive out the pin and remove the magazine safety. I still got rid of it and bought a 1911 because I didn’t like all that trigger takeup.

[@chpet1655]

How dare you ! The Hi-Power is perfect in every way and it’s even in 9mm so it will blow out everyone’s lungs ! Everyone… All jokes aside I just had to comment how gorgeous this example is.

[@BlokeontheRange]

It was mint when I got it. Only proof-fired. And only cost me about $450, so I'm super happy I was scrolling Facebook as Mrs Glauser posted it! :D

[@terben7339]

When I bought my Browning Hi Power back in 1982, I decided to leave my magazine safety in.....a small container of useless gun parts that I've accumulated. Should I ever dispose of the firearm, I can return it to factory standard....if I remember.

[@CeltKnight]

In my previous law enforcement career, my first duty pistol was a Browning Hi-Power. I still have it and still carry it occasionally. Despite many years, countless miles, and a whole lot of rounds (many +p+) it still shoots like a dream. BUT, yeah, that magazine safety ... whew ... it's a pain. I never got around to removing it, but I did have an action job done on it and the trigger pull was much improved then. But still, magazine safeties are, as you say, mostly the creation of people who don't USE the firearms. Love the content of this channel!

[@BlokeontheRange]

Thanks!

[@detritus23]

The Ruger Mark IV magazine disconnect is pretty good in terms of staying out of your way. However, it is a magazine disconnect.

[@earlyriser8998]

interesting to see the details of the various ways people salve the same problem. Especially when they are all just learning / discovering new ideas and techniques on this new style of weapon.

[@aries_9130]

Very interesting, Bloke! Unfortunately removing the magazine safety on my father's pistol didn't do that much to improve the trigger pull, it's still fairly bad compared to other guns of even the same era. Oh well. It's a display piece now.

[@Panzerfan93]

i removed it on both of my Hi Powers too, a wider trigger like the one from Cylinder&Slide makes it also more comfortable to shoot (and you can't add the mag saftey on that one)

[@danmack111]

The first thing I did when I bought a High Power, the day I got it, was pull the mag safety out, and it went from having an atrocious trigger to having the best triggers out of all of my surplus service pistols

[@cheesenoodles8316]

You have nicely ID'd the only thing I do not like on the Hi Power. I just live with it.

[@stewbacca117]

aaah, the old 'AN UNTHINKING MOMENT" video. That takes me back abut 20 years... and yes magazine safeties are bad and anyone who likes them should feel bad. bad drills.

[@culshie]

Back in the day every clearing bay had to have a magazine on a string or a chain so the H.P. could be made safe, a unnecessary complication for someone coming off a fourteen hour patrol and probably dead tired or worse completely wired up if things had gone poorly. On a different note I have seen ones produced by F.N. during the German occupation that did not have the mag safety.

[@robertbrandywine]

What is a clearing bay?

[@culshie]

@@robertbrandywine At the entrance to a facility where a loaded F/A is either not required or prohibited you will make safe your F/A (unload and prove clear under supervision) in reverse it could be called the loading bay. Usually comprising a sandbag wall and abutments to provide a safe direction for the F/A muzzle.

[@robertbrandywine]

@@culshie Thanks.

[@alexgustavsson5955]

Is there a difference in how clean the break is on the first example Hi Power with the rocker vs. the second with the trigger bow? I imagine it has a lot to do with friction, it could be that the rocker design without modification has less contact with the frame/slide and thus a cleaner break?

[@BlokeontheRange]

The rocker relies on good slide to frame fit for a good trigger pul, so isn't really a very good design.

[@Rileysworld727]

@@BlokeontheRange ive always wondered why the Hi-Power has crappy trigger compared to the P210 despite them both being single action only and this video really helps show why.

[@robertbrandywine]

As I received it, my BHP had a trigger pull of 9 pounds. I had a gunsmith smooth and lighten the trigger to about 7 1/2 pounds. Then I removed the magazine safety and it dropped the pull to 5 1/4 pounds.

[@lib556]

Bang on. It is my understanding that mag safeties were the rage post WW1 for some stupid reason. Unfortunately FN kept making their BHPs with them. Inglis Canada made many thousands during WW2 with the safety and we've been suffering ever since. I personally know of a few accidents resulting in wounds in our army because people get mixed up on the order of the actions or their minds wander... all because of that stupid safety. When I bought a BHP back in the 90s, I took it to a gun smithing friend and had the safety removed. The trigger was much better afterward.

[@blackhawk7r221]

The French, who showed a huge interest in making a large purchase of Hi-Powers while it was being designed, demanded a mag safety be installed. So it became standard.

[@lib556]

@@blackhawk7r221 I believe that's what I said. 😁

[@ianto1150]

Hi Bloke, You`re right. I was in the British Regular Army from 1970 to 1995. As a skill-at-arms instructor I taught all Infantry platoon weapons to recruits, nco`s and for a period, officers. Those like me who did not have long fingers had the problems you outline. I know of two incidents in NI when officer`s shot themselves messing up these drills. (Both shot in the foot, no lasting damage thankfully). Other than that I thought the 9-Milly was a fine piece of kit.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Thanks for that! I have a pam which has inserting an *empty* mag, with no mention of a finger, as the drill. As if a shagged out officer or whoever would empty a full mag, ease springs, then re-fill the mag... Hence I'm sure people used loaded mags to do it in practice with obviously predictable results...

[@ianto1150]

@@BlokeontheRange Hi Bloke, you`re right, I`m sure there was an amendment to the pamphlet at some stage. Perhaps a viewer from Small Arms School Corps could enlighten us.

[@BlokeontheRange]

I'd be really interested if/when middle-fingering went into the pam or if it ended up just being end-user best-practice :)

[@jamesbromstead4949]

This video reminded me of all your past British Army safety training videos... which in turn reminded me of the equally cringey US Army safety training videos. Ahhh, horrible nostalgia!

[@entropyachieved750]

Always an interesting video, Bloke

[@kodiakkeith]

I've owned and carried BHPs for many years, currently a gussied up aluminum framed version. The mag safety is the first thing to go. The trend for a generation (since Glock) is no safety at all (either thumb or mag) so I don't hesitate to remove it.

[@jimsiress9687]

Personally preferred method; There is a 'sweet spot' within the length of the magazine disconnect plunger spring that allows the retention of the parts while rendering the disconnect feature disengaged. Using trial & error, shorten the spring until magazine disconnect is rendered inoperative. Then mirror polish the back side of magazine disconnect plunger that engaged the front face of the magazine body. This done correctly leaves pistol appearing as unmodified while working in part as a trigger over travel stop as compared to total removal of the parts. Mirror polish at parts engagement on the magazine body can be done as well if you wish but from past experience does not seem to add much overall. Just food for your thoughts Bloke 👍 Hope you might try this mod then compare & contrast with total parts removal. Personal success with this mod for decades. Seeing to the adjustment & polish of all other fire control components by competent craftsman is highly advised for reliable longevity. HP's are fine straps, just need a little TLC for discriminating shooters. From across the Pond, as been said. I hope this is of some consideration & you find helpful 👍

[@TurboDieselWeasel1]

Mag safety was the first thing I removed on my P210... I felt like it did improve the trigger feel a bit, as the bar doesn't slide against the nub anymore. Either way, I like to be able to de-cock my gun without a magazin inserted.

[@commander31able60]

my first experience with a magazine safety was with the Five-seveN. I promptly took it apart and cut off the bar that the magazine presses on when it's loaded. problem solved.

[@ianjones1034]

The Springfield Armory SA35 rectifies the Browning's shortcomings ,larger safety leaver ,magazine disconnect removed hence better trigger and better sights

[@jamesfairmind2247]

Bloke at the Range, when the Germans took over the FN factory and also the Norwegian HP factory, they deleted the mag safety. What part of the USA do you live in BTW?

[@BlokeontheRange]

What Norwegian HP factory? I don't live in the USA.

[@jamesfairmind2247]

@@BlokeontheRange I believe a batch were made at the Konesburg factory where the Norwegian 1911's were built under licence for the Norwegian army. I just wondered because I am a Brit too and obviously no longer have access to handguns. I have owned 4 Browning Mk3's in the past.

[@HypocriticYT]

My Inglis has a good trigger pull. Just polish the plunger face and front bit of the magazines. They can be quite accurate. Sometimes the hammer bent and sear bent don’t align properly giving heavier trigger pull. Once the slack is taken up the trigger pull can be fine.

[@Satchmoeddie]

They were on my Hi Powers but now they are loose parts rattling about inside old film tins.

[@stephenshallcross7832]

There are more moving parts on the trigger than in a Ford Engine from the seventies, that transfer bar takes so long to move that I used to have pulled the trigger twice more before it fired the first shot. The Hi Power is the British Commonwealth equivalent of the 1911, the mere mention of which sends droves of people in to Rapture and ecstasy. They are both OK but they don't match the Hype. When the SHTF I was glad I had disconnected my Mag safety, and the next time it happened I was glad someone had issued me a Beretta 92.

[@rs52594]

Thankfully the used HP Mark III that I got that had the magazine disconnect already removed so the trigger is not that bad at all.

[@AlejandroGarcia-mu4ww]

What show/movie is that @01:40?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Type what's written at the bottom of the screen into the youtube search function :)

[@zoiders]

I learned to finger the mag well of my Browning to bypass the mag safety for NSPs. Of course if you had stumpy fingers you were out of luck.

[@amschind]

It's pretty telling that EVERY type of safety has vanished save for those integrated into the trigger (trigger tabs and DA/SA pistols with decockers having taken over). I have maybe the only Hi-Power with a 1911 style thumb safety (the P226 X5), and that may be the only situation where a manual safety is good idea: a single action built to be carried in Condition 1.

[@cpssee]

Just don't ever pull the trigger on anything when you aren't meaning to shoot.

[@spraynpray]

The argument for the mag safety I've heard is that if a police officer loses their firearm to an attacker, they can go back in time to before losing the firearm and eject the magazine instead of using the firearm as intended. That way, less than lethal force can be attempted. Not having a time machine, nor knowing of any departments issued portable versions, I suggest against having mag safeties.

[@CMBlessing81]

According to Massad Ayoob, there have been cases where police officers have been able to eject the magazine of a firearms they were about to lose control of, and thus were not shot after the other person got full control of the firearm. It's a corner case, and requires specific training to do, but could definitely be valid if you're committed to it.

[@megatherium100]

Can somebody explain to me the logic and/or justification behind magazine safeties and why did they came about?

[@BlokeontheRange]

I literally sounds good and safe. I'll do a vid on the general principle and going more into detail of the accident recreated in the training video at a later stage.

[@3ducs]

I used to have a Hi Power, it was OK but had a lousy trigger. I removed the magazine safety and it got much better. It isn't difficult to remove and the benefit of doing so is large. But I sold the pistol, it didn't fit my hand so well.

[@TomElliottJackson]

Experienced some vicious slide-bite from a Hi Power, my hands are just too fat for it I guess

[@TheArmourersBench]

Haha, An Unthinking Moment cameo.

[@BlokeontheRange]

I'm going to do another vid on mag safeties as a general thing, using the entirety of that reconstruction there.

[@maverickpaladin4155]

2 questions...why did they include it and never delete it until this year? If the 1911 trigger is so good (which it is), why wasn't it incorporated into the P35, P210, etc?

[@chaimafaghet7343]

Because pistols are almost irrelevant to armed forces and them having a good trigger is even less relevant. It would have been included for administrative handling reasons.

[@maverickpaladin4155]

@@chaimafaghet7343 so was it mandated by whoever issued one of the first contracts?

[@kevinoliver3083]

The magazine safety was included because it was specified by the French. Who requested high-capacity 9mm pistol after WW1. That also why magazine capacity is 13 rather than 15 rounds. And of course in the end the French Army bought something completely different.

[@adrianotero7963]

I find that using a 1500 wet sandpaper on the front of the magazine area will remove all the parkerizing or bluing needed to improve the trigger substancialy.....unless you just dont care for that type of safety device and want to remove it anyway.....my 2 cents.....

[@zermomia]

Love your video colors,, the quality matches the voice,... BBC's Late 70s to 90s video quality.

[@mgreen7063]

Another reason for them no one mentioned (that I saw) was removing the magazine when entering a weapons-free area like a jail. without clearing and storing your pistol. Possibly explains the popularity of the Smith semi autos with various departments in the US a while ago. I agree, training is a far better option. The unuseability of a weapon in a gun grab situation if the magazine has been removed is another instance, but I can't ever recall reading about that happening. Far more likely to have a safety on and not have a bad guy not be able to figure it out before the good guy could get to a backup weapon, flee, or the bad guy is shot by someone else. If you haven't guessed, I'm against them. Removed one from a Star 9mm I own. It didn't improve the trigger much that I found, but I think that's more to do with it being a Star.

[@jamesritchie2167]

Like the middle finger bodge. Got 2 Hi Powers. Carry mine regularly here in USA! Land of the Free! 🇿🇦🇬🇧🇺🇸

[@AirsoftTipsandReviews]

great demo!

[@jeanmac271]

Arme magnifique dommage que le guidage de la culasse soit si court ce qui nuit gravement à la précision. J'avais un modèle Capitan je n'ai jamais réussi les résultats que je faisais avec mon SIG P210

[@petesheppard1709]

Well, it *was* a circa 1930s idea that, AIUI, was not part of the original design. As far as NDs go, I once long ago fumbled the drill with a 1911 and shot out a tire… Bear in mind that many striker guns have to be dry fired to remove the slide-the Sig P320 doesn’t, which is one reason I like mine.

[@BlokeontheRange]

It was part of the initial French spec it was designed to :)

[@petesheppard1709]

@@BlokeontheRange Ah. Thanks! 🙂

[@AlejandroGarcia-mu4ww]

Springfield Armory is making a version of the Hi-Power, I believe it doesn't have the magazine safety

[@jackstecker5796]

Every firearm I've ever owned or been issued, that had a magazine "safety", I replaced parts, or removed parts, to disable the magazine "safety". The first was my Ruger, 22/45. Found a guy who made replacement bushings, pulled the whole magazine safety out and replaced it. Whoever thought this was a good idea, I would gladly tie a line around them, cast them from the bowsprit, and keel-haul them. Firing pin safeties, are a whole other kettle of fish. Read about a police officer who, after court, was balancing his Sig 220, in the holster, on top of a box of documents. Well, since he thumbed down the hammer, while pulling the trigger, he disabled the firing pin safety. When the holstered pistol slid off the documents box, it landed on the hammer, and fired the .45ACP 230 grain hollow point into his head. With, unfortunately, predictable results. Train, train, train with your equipment. Then train some more. Learn all the idiosyncrasies of any weapon you carry. And for the love of God, keep your booger hook off of the bang switch.

[@funkla65]

For all the scorn heaped upon grip safeties, I think they are half as dumb as magazine safeties. Even if the magazine safety doesn't add friction to the trigger pull, it will usually add unnecessary friction to magazine insertion/ejection.

[@exploatores]

Looks like Tommy forgot that. he should point the pistol in a safe direction. I think making a hole in the basement floor it a bit embarrasing. but shooting other. even if it is a accident that is another thing.

[@peteranderson037]

1:37 When desk pops go wrong.

[@jamesritchie2167]

Yes its a bloody pain the arse. The new FN Hi Power and SA 58 models by passed this issue.

[@18robsmith]

As ever the engineering and workmanship required on a semi-automatic hand gun gets the engineer-juices in me flowing. Shame that the basic concept of this so-called safety is so poor.

[@M.M.83-U]

0:42 like most military personnel in a conscription army?

[@44hawk28]

Reason they put magazine safeties on certain firearms. It's because every once in awhile an officer gets his hands on one. And it doesn't usually end well. Because some of them do not know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of. And I'm not being facetious.

[@onpsxmember]

A magazine safety definitely has downsides but when they were required in some police forces including an external safety there were far less cops shot with their own duty pistols in the 90s. But now most pull the trigger to disassemble so designs really wised up. It's all a matter of training.

[@tbjtbj4786]

I agree the hp that I have had didn't have the best trigger but it was still better than most of the plastic gun triggers. But its not just a traing issue. There have been a few documented cases were s@w mag drops keepted cops from being shot with there gun. And that was one big part to some dept. Wanting the mag safety.

[@eloiseharbeson2483]

The only pistol that I own that has a magazine safety is my FN FiveseveN and I despise it. AFAIK it just complicates stripping and reassembly.

[@andrewbear1057]

There might be a reason FN removed it from the "modernized" 2022 version...

[@onkelmicke9670]

The best type of magazine safety is the one that is easily removed.

[@MFKR696]

Perfect example of a "lawyer-safety". That way of doing things seriously needs to die, but I don't think it's going anywhere...

[@blackhawk7r221]

This was a French requirement back in the 1930’s. When in hand to hand combat and you are at risk of losing your sidearm, simply hit the mag release to render it inoperable.

[@pmgn8444]

How dare you disparage John Moses Browning's (1855-1926) last design! The Model 1935 HP was his second greatest achievement (after the 1911). If M. Saive, er, Mr. Browning wanted a mag safety, then it MUST have a mag safety! Otherwise, a more than vaguely interesting vid. I have a Inglis Hi Power with a 0Txxxx serial and UK 'ED FTR 62' markings. It didn't have the mag safety when I bought it. Since I wanted a more accurate representation of a Cold War pistol and I don't use it for general shooting, I put the mag safety back in. Yes, I'm weird...

[@blackhawk7r221]

It was the French who demanded a mag safety be added.

[@truckerallikatuk]

Could be worse, they could have built the transfer bar into the magazine...

[@kansasboi8742]

the cool ist mag safty i ever saw was on a mexicn made 1911 the mex laws said the ned a mag safty for civ gun the mag buttion was made big on the back sid if the mag was not in the buttion would go in more than normal and lock the trigger bar is super cool ill show you if i find it

[@anomonyous]

If I didn't know any better, I'd have said this was an attempt to get people to buy more magazines.

[@mysterymete]

80% of the way through the video. Finally get a notification for it. YT is great. Fantastic. Amazing. Come to think of it, I never got a Patreon notification, even though I see comments that are *days* old. Fock the wots?....

[@mysterymete]

Oh, I see. I don't pay enough. Hrrmmph.

[@NateTheScot]

Isn't the idea of a mag safety literally how Tiger King's boyfriend blew his brains out and died during the show? He was going "Hey look see this gun it won't fire if the mag isn't inserted" but he hadn't put the mag safety on or something. Maybe i'm misunderstanding/misremembering as it's been a couple years since i watched it and i'm not a handgun person.

[@tacticalmanatee]

By far the worst magazine safety out there, to my knowledge, is that found on the Seecamp pocket pistols. This safety is actuated by the trigger bar riding alongside one side of the magazine, and without a magazine to support it the bar will bend itself out of shape into the mag well and lock up. This not only means that the trigger pull can easily damage the trigger linkage by pulling too hard without the magazine, but the safety serves another purpose as well: the slide cannot be cycled without the magazine in place. It can be drawn back maybe a quarter inch, enough to see if there is brass in the chamber, but if there is a round in the chamber but no magazine the gun cannot be unloaded until a magazine is inserted. Someone unfamiliar with the gun attempting to unload the chamber without the magazine will almost certainly result in the trigger bar being broken. This "safety" feature is horribly unsafe, as it requires even experienced users to fully unload the gun by either cycling all the rounds out of the magazine by cycling the slide, which is a lot of opportunity for some sort of accident and is annoying in general as now you need to reload the magazine with cartridges, or they must drop the loaded magazine a half inch, hold it there awkwardly with a pinky while they cycle the slide to get the chambered round out, and hope they didn't have the magazine slightly too high and load another round into the chamber after removing the chambered round. Horrible design. The designer excused it by claiming that the gun was perfectly safe without a magazine and advised owners to simply remove the magazine to make it safe, even around children, and just let the chambered round stay put.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Oh wow. That's incredible....

[@tacticalmanatee]

​@@BlokeontheRange the real shame is that the gun itself is very well made and one of, if not the, smallest guns in a caliber larger than .22 or .25. It's a .32ACP or .380ACP pistol the same size as a .25ACP baby browning. The engineering required to make that work is rather impressive. But that makes the truly appalling magazine "safety" all the more unfortunate.

[@SnoopReddogg]

If the ADF added up all the money they've infringed diggers for because of magazine safety related Browning Hi-Power NDs, they could buy a whole batch of better pistols

[@jimbo1278]

my experiance is with the Canadian Forces Engles prodused Highpowers. beautifull pistols and fits my hand perfictly but the mag dissconect is cancer. thank god this consept has gone the way of the dinosaur and wont infect any newer handguns. its understandable in the early 1900s when they didnt trust/ fully understand comen police/military personel. same thing for the rifle mag cut off. but by 1935 thease sistems shuld have been compleatly removed. the mag disconect was alwase a mistake and never shuld have been introduced. it apsolutly causes NDs. in the sandbox we were requierd to use clearing barrles when ressembeling our HPs BECAUSE repeated NDs would happen. Bloke that is a lovely example of a Mk. 3. thank you for making this vidio 🙂

[@BlokeontheRange]

Thanks. Unfortunately, due to California and other jurisdictions, mag safeties have not gone fully away. BTW this is a Mk.1, 1974 build which came to me mint and unfired (other than proof).

[@jimbo1278]

@@BlokeontheRange thank you very much for the correction. i saw the hammer and safty and thaught it was the Mk.3 modle. im even more impressed with the condidtion. again thank you for all the time and work you put into making these vidios. 🙂

[@ChristianMcAngus]

Shouldn't a single action pistol come with a manual decocker? That would've avoided the accident shown in the army training film.

[@BlokeontheRange]

It would also have put the pistol into an unsafe condition cos most single action pistols aren't designed to be fully safe with the hammer down over a loaded chamber (I'm aware anecdotally of a Danish lieutenant who thought he knew better by carrying a P210 hammer down on a loaded chamber and shot himself in the leg as a result). I'm unaware of any single action only pistol having a manual decocker.

[@luisantolafrancis519]

@@BlokeontheRange The Polish VIS p35 RADOM pistol had a decocker.

[@HypocriticYT]

Mag lips can spread and give problems. Not the best magazine to keep loaded and stored. You can easily bend the lips back again .

[@zdub8438]

Imagine what fantastic guns we would have today if people were smart enough to give browning their money and trust the process instead of force their stupid requirements onto perfection.

[@Trumplican]

ALL magazine safeties are awful. If you aren't smart enough to clear the chamber you shouldnt own a firearm.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Agreed 100%! :D

[@Trumplican]

@@BlokeontheRange :D thanks for the reply and the great video!

[@simonjones6128]

Interesting mikey

[@loquat44-40]

The BP high power was a good pistol in 1935 and there are much better 9mm hand guns out there today. Basic gun handling 101. Verify that the chamber is empty prior to pulling the trigger and even then point the gun in safe direction when pulling the trigger. When dry firing inside of the home I also chose a structure of the house that an AD bullet could hit that will not endanger any one or cause significant damage. I sure do not want to shoot my fridge or hit the dog for sure. In 60 plus years of handling guns I have never yet had an 'empty' gun go off, that is to say not AD's or ND's yet.

[@billwhite7015]

Biggest drawback -- lose the mag and your pistol becomes a rock...

[@xavierfumat7567]

what if, what if... I have no problems with it or removed! Still waiting for my military call up or even my local neighborhood drive by shooting to test the trigger! What a joke!!!

[@antoninolatorre8355]

hi, bloke !!! good video ... but i think the idiots can fire a live round lost in the chamber ever with magazine safety either without magazine safety ...!!! another thing is its drawing, if it can improve the sear or the sear became rough ... bye bye

[@fuser662]

My unpopular opinion, the BHP one is better because it's easy to remove :-)

[@etaservices7343]

MY STAR BM HAD ONE A BIT DIFFERENT THAN ALL OF THESE

[@manganvbg90]

The springfield sa35 copy dropped that safety 😌

[@davidgcalderone]

My standard salty comment to help the algorithm, "Sodium Chloride!"

[@johnkilcer]

I hate magazine safeties. On my modern guns I just get rid of them.

[@worldtraveler930]

I Prefer Pepper to salt anyway!!! 🤠👍