Why The DCEU Is Constantly In CRISIS Mode

Much like DC Comics, the DC Extended Universe has started going down a road causing many die hard fans to suffer from Crossover Fatigue. Every few years DC Comics puts out another Crisis Book seemingly to clean up the timelines they have created over the last decade. When this happens over and over again, fans of DC Comics start to notice the stories becoming old and tired. Can the DCEU prevent this from happening? Or has it already started?
#DCComics #DCEU #Nerdstalgic
Written by Dave Baker
Edited by Dave Sadvari

[@monsterguyx6322]

As a lifelong Marvel and MCU fan I begrudgingly respected that, up until the 2000s, DC had an almost untouchable advantage in terms of brand recognition. The Holy Trinity of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman were almost certainly the most well-known superhero characters in the world, probably the only ones known to many people. They had a much more successful history of both animated and live-action TV and movies. So, seeing how poorly they have handled the DCEU is disappointing to any fan of the genre, and I sympathize with the diehard DC fans out there.

[@billyisles7505]

Maybe that's kinda the problem, they thought that the characters were so well known that they didn't need individual movies to establish them before jumping into crossover events... That and playing catch-up with the MCU obviously

[@bigbearkat2010]

Spider-Man is on their level but tbf that wasn't particularly relevant to the foundation of the MCU with Sony owning the rights.

[@alexallen126]

Yeah it kind of sucks. The best movie we’ve had from them in YEARS is the Zac Snyder cut Justice League. And that is an acquired taste

[@alexallen126]

Well The Suicide Squad was good too, but it took them two attempts to get it right. I just don’t understand how you can mess up these movies when there’s sooooo much content to draw from.

[@claudiabcarvalho]

Justice League was supposed to be a huge epic. Like, we were getting the team in live action for the first time ever! Instead, we got that Whedon/Johns pathetic cut. It was so embarrassing. Those Bruce Tim cartoons were a lot less silly than that, even the freaking OG Teen Titans cartoon was less silly than that. What we got in 2017 was a punch in the stomach, a really bad joke. I still can't believe what happened.

[@elcacciatore5851]

Basically, the problem is that DC generates their films as a response to Marvel's instead of doing their own thing.

[@BengaloFFM]

Snyder did his own thing but wasn't becoming the freedom he needs. His JL is great and BvS UE is simply awesome

[@tjclarke6074]

@@BengaloFFM Man of Steel was great too, unfortunately WB we're only half on board with him having a trilogy.

[@BengaloFFM]

@@tjclarke6074 Yeah, it's a shame. Finally some unique movies.

[@mageeaaron2624]

Pretty much

[@Aloam_sa]

@@BengaloFFM nah BvS kinda sucked.

[@AzA609]

The DCEU jumped way ahead and skipped a lot of steps in developing a good cinematic universe. The MCU took those little steps, where they developed each important character in their own movies to make you care about the heroes. DC went straight to the big team up movie before they introduced who their characters are. I didn't care when Superman died, but I did care when Iron Man died.

[@bigbearkat2010]

I think one of the big reasons Marvel took those little steps was the brand recognition the video mentioned. Most of the Marvel characters didn't really have that and the ones that did were sold off to other studios so they really had no choice but to do the individual movies and build up the brand so they could get the audience on board with a crossover. WB thought they could get away with skipping all that because they had a head start on brand recognition and seemingly every move since has been made in a poorly calculated attempt to make more money and catch up to Marvel. Heck they almost skipped the individual movies altogether by doing Justice League first a few years before and the only reason that movie didn't happen was because of a writer's strike.

[@bupemwenya9794]

What's wrong with going straight to a big team up movie? I think that's what made the DCEU interesting, it broke the formula that we had gotten used to.

[@mikomaxwell6313]

@@bupemwenya9794 lmao. Who’s we

[@bupemwenya9794]

@@mikomaxwell6313 we as the audience in general

[@ryanw9122]

@@mikomaxwell6313 i mean he's right, we as movie watchers are aware of and are used to this formula

[@hcstubbs3290]

I'll never understand why DC doesn't take a leaf out of their cartoons and tv shows to figure out why they work so much better than the movies... maybe it's because - for the most part - the characters act a lot like the comic book characters they're adapted from. 🙄 And I'm sick and tired of Batman movies that ignore the Batman family, specifically Robin. Killing off Dick Grayson before he even appeared on screen kind of ruined the DCEU from the get go for me. What's the point in the DCEU without Nightwing? He's kind of like the heart of the comics.

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

Same here. I wish they took cues from the DCAU. They had awesome programs.

[@TRainbowPitt]

I highly disagree that the DCU characters are like the comic book ones. They are more like the stereotypes of the characters specially like the 90s early 2000 type

[@theenviornmentartist2475]

BvS was not supposed to exist so soon. There was supposed to be a Batman Solo film covering all this but guess who wanted to catch up with the MCU? WB have constantly fucked with the directors vision no matter which movie they make. If you actually look at the track record? Almost every cringey scene in every WB movie was a decision made by the execs. They don't understand cinema and they shouldn't even be incharge of a franchise this big.

[@bigbearkat2010]

@@theenviornmentartist2475 I find that part especially funny because as part of the hype for BvS, WB had been promoted as this studio that made movies for the fans and gave their directors creative freedom as a way to sell the DCEU as the more creative driven universe as opposed to the supposedly homogenized and stiffling MCU which had been going through bad press at the time for chasing away folks like Edgar Wright, Patty Jenkins and Joss Whedon

[@stevenstygles255]

@@theenviornmentartist2475 oooohhh..... another Zack fan that blames the execs of WB instead of the mediocrity of Snyder

[@solidsnake99713]

DC needs to have more standalone movies. When they focus on one character without thinking of a massive universe it usually turns out well.

[@Xion999]

Honestly. Man of steel was amazing, as was Wonder Woman. They screwed it up by introducing characters before they had their own introductions

[@gabbar51ngh]

DC is more successful in solo movies compared to ensembles or crossovers. They should go with that. Question trilogy like Dark knight or a Green Arrow movie trilogy.

[@Christopher-ms5ke]

@@gabbar51ngh I’d love a Question series on HBO Max personally

[@thedarkknight5239]

that batfleck movie wouldve been awesome ngl

[@muhammadzidanashari3304]

I agree with you bro like for example the joker is very good

[@ZenithAMVs]

DC is trying to get to where Marvel is know and skip past the character arcs and connections. The reason why Marvel was so popular when it was first released is because they made it seem like each superhero movie was their own standalone movie and slowly teased towards a big fight with small cameos or easter eggs. Whereas DC just released Justice League before we even got to know most of the characters and what made it worse was that they tried giving those characters (like Flash and Cyborg) flashbacks to "make up for it". If DC continues doing what they're doing, they will never even be close to Marvel.

[@wayothefro3249]

@@Niop_Tres I think Flashpoint got announced first, but Marvel has clearly had plans for the multiverse probably long before DC did it, considering how Into the Spiderverse tested the waters for such a concept in the mainstream, Loki has already established it within the MCU, and presumably No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness will take the concept even farther, so I think Marvel has had it in their back pocket for far longer.

[@SuperSteph5]

Cyborg & Flash are shown off very well in the Synder Cut

[@sreeragjayagopal2054]

@@wayothefro3249 the plan to bring back Andrew Garfield and Tobey Maguire wasn't initiated until the news reported that Michael Keaton was coming back. Kevin Feige has done this before as well. He only green lit civil war because DCEU announced batman v Superman and thats a statement confirmed by either Kevin feige or the Russo bros. Not sure who. I enjoy both marvel and DC though.

[@wayothefro3249]

@@sreeragjayagopal2054 It was the Russos who talked about Civil War being pushed cause of BvS. However, Keaton was only confirmed for the Flashpoint movie in April of last year whereas Maguire and Andrew have been rumored to appear in No Way Home long before that and still haven't been officially confirmed. The MCU and DCEU totally feed off of each other, like the DCEU wouldn't have even existed if not for the MCU, but I feel like Marvel really beat DC to the multiversal punch.

[@spider-man500]

OK, Zack Snyder's Justice Leagie was great. It gave Cyborg and Flash's origins within the team up film. Because the film was allowed to be long. It was allowed to stretch its time, allow the origins, and the team up, and was done well.

[@jbearclowater]

A big part of the DCEU's issue was that WB kept getting in the way of themselves. Every time a movie didn't meet a certain expectation, they gave the director mandates to fix in the next one, and ended up micro-managing their films to a point of ruining them. Man of Steel doesn't meet their box office expectations? Add Batman to the next one. BvS gets a low critical score? Add more jokes to Suicide Squad, even if it leaves scenes feeling out of place with one another. Suicide Squad fails critically? Clearly the problem is our movies are too long, so make sure to tell Joss Whedon not to let Justice League be more than 2 hours long (among *many* issues with how they handled that movie). If they stayed out of the way of their directors and just let them do their thing, some of those movies might have been much better off for it.

[@har5814]

WB is infested with pathetic reactive panicking execs.

[@Vesohag]

Exactly.

[@TheN1ghtwalker]

Finally a sane comment

[@lordchungus1552]

I agree WB is dumb and Zack Snyder is also a shit director

[@arfhat89]

Curious how different or similar things would be if the just made the ultimate cut of BvS the one that released in theaters originally. The reviews would definitely get a boost but the question is by how much to where WB would be satisfied enough to not trigger the domino effect that killed the DCEU.

[@rcc_96]

“You see where you’re going? Now let’s worry about how you get there.” -Hawkeye DC cared too much about the destination and not enough about the journey.

[@deonambrose]

Warner brothers are such Idiots

[@JacobGrim]

You mean Warner Bros

[@morbiuscrystal4875]

@@JacobGrim DC

[@shealupkes]

same for marvel

[@eemazak4062]

@@deonambrose now what did yakko and wakko do to you?

[@williamdunbar2802]

The DCEU’s main problem is that it barely develops the characters in the actual movies, I really have no reason to care about Batman or Superman. That’s one of the reasons the Wonder Woman movie is good, because it develops why I should care about Diana

[@jobansand]

Wonder Woman was good until the last ten minutes.

[@diandremosley]

The Aquaman king of Atlantis animated trilogy has more character development then most DCEU Films.

[@ak_hoops]

THAT PART! Emphasis on IN the actual movies. Its literally "This is (insert any character), here you go..."

[@FabulousKilljoy917]

But even then it’s very surface-level and in JL & 1984 she’s reduced to a 90s sitcom trope of “oh gosh it’s hard to find a man”

[@deadmanwalking5748]

I wouldn't call it better, better than usual I think is more accurate

[@thomaspanditfan2435]

As much as i wont like to say this, the arrowverse is a perfect example of this. They slowly built up their characters and then gave them their own series and then slowly ramped it up with larger event type crossovers. we 1st got small scale stuff like flash vs arrow or world's finest, and then we slowly but surely moved onto the big boy stuff like crisis on earth x or elseworlds. They did not start off with big, they gradually made their way there. Would it have been good if they just had some sort of huge multiversal event fro the 1st crossover? Of course not. But for the 3rd? yea, it defntely would.

[@thomaspanditfan2435]

@@asimhussain8716 but that concept can be done very well if utilized properly. Look at flash season 6a (1 to 8). Seeing Barry's team worrying and caring for him, shows that what is about to come and how dangerous it will be. Arrow season 2 showed how Oliver started to reconnect with people and make himself a less of a monster (but sadly while u love the hell out of season 5, they overdid this team dynamic). This same goes for arrow season 8. If handled properly, the teams can be a very good thig. And also, someone teach this bloody fellas how to not overcrowd them. Flash should have only 3 to 4. Barry, Cisco, Caitlin, harry and Joe as an honorary guy. Arrow has Oliver, diggle, Roy, felicity and thea. That's it. No more. For the Barry thing in arrow season 2, I think that was the right call. I think inserting him as the flash in season 2 would have been too much, and since Slade was a very menacinf villain, I think Barry existinf would kind of ruin him. They did the right thing by saving him for the next year.

[@gabbar51ngh]

@@asimhussain8716 arrowverse is also a series & has way more episodes so they end up filling it with melodrama between characters. Either way a restraint few episodes would have made it a really good cinematic universe in their own

[@Coolsomeone234]

Arrow season 4 & 6 were atrocious and didn't develop characters at all. And Olicity

[@thomaspanditfan2435]

@@asimhussain8716 Wait, what? What was wrong with arrow season 5? It is one of the best seasons in the entire arrowverse in my opinion.

[@thomaspanditfan2435]

GOOD: Arrow season 1,2,5,7a,8. Flash season 1,2,3,6a. Legends of tomorrow season 2,3,5,. Superman and lois,. Stargirl season 1,2. Black lightning season 1,2,3. Supergirl season 2,4 AVERAGE: Arrow season 3,7b. Flash season 6b. Legends of tomorrow season 1. TRASH: Arrow season 4,6. Flash season 4,5,7. Legends of tomorrow season 4. Entire Batwoman

[@vodkaffee4856]

i don't know why they dont release their animated movies in cinemas; the Suicide squad animated movie came around the same time and is waaaay better than the OG live action

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

Apparently Warner Brothers don’t consider the DC animated projects as worthy of being seen in theaters. I think the last DC animated project that was in theaters was the Batman and Harley Quinn movie. It might be because Batman: Mask of the Phantom didn’t do well at the box office when it was first released. That’s just my theory.

[@vodkaffee4856]

@@mirandagoldstine8548 is sad because their animated project may be flawed but is way better than the stuff marvel is putting on cinemas

[@nightblockprimecraft9284]

Animated movies are not respected are fair poorly if not a Pixar/Dreamworks/Illumination film at the box office

[@KingOfMadCows]

They're made for TV and don't look good on the big screen. The average cost of an animated DC movie is only about $3.5 million. That's a little more than the cost of about 2 episodes of The Simpsons or Family Guy. They try to pinch pennies as much as possible with the animation and there's a lot of jank that will be easily noticeable on a movie theater screen. It's also not worth it financially since even low budget films get at least $10 million to advertise their theater release.

[@deadmanwalking5748]

​@@KingOfMadCows If they do what they do with that, Boy, I can only imagine what would they pull with some bigger investment

[@H.P._Lovecrafts_Beloved_Cat]

This could be easily fixed by having smaller, contained stories with simple stakes that don’t involve the end of the world. I’d still love to see a Batman movie where he gets to be the world’s greatest detective again, and not just the guy in a bat suit that punches people. Edit: And doesn’t show his parents dying again!

[@jamesleung0]

This is my point of view exactly. I'm tired of seeing planetary or universal crisis in every film crowding out character development. I grew up on Detective Comics and want to see world's "greatest detective" actually fight crime on the streets. I want to see Batman in a world like Netflix's Daredevil season 1. Just gritty, crawling around alleys, and taking down the local mob.

[@SuperSteph5]

That's what the new Batman movie will be focusing on I believe

[@H.P._Lovecrafts_Beloved_Cat]

@@SuperSteph5 I hope so. It looks promising.

[@ravensthatflywiththenightm7319]

Sadly Nolan's cemented that image for the younger fans. People are already starting to forget how Keaton's Batman was able to figure out how the Joker was slipping Smilex into hygiene products. People are starting to forget how Conroy's Batman spends nearly 50% of his episodes doing detective work. After Batman Begins suddenly the only thing people think of when it's Batman is some idiot with a stupid voice punching thugs and then bitching and moaning about it after.

[@Cjn03980]

Yes I would love for him to start out with small, not super-powered evil scientist villains, but robbers or muderers etc then maybe work from there to Aliens or whatever lol

[@madmaxmedia]

Marvel was forced to start small with Iron Man because they licensed their biggest IP to other studios. They had to focus on character and story development to create viewer engagement, rather than just try to profit from existing IP. I think this is a great example of how creative constraints can actually drive and improve creative work.

[@virgogaming6488]

The first Iron Man was an average movie as are all MCU movies.

[@user-qk3nq6cg7r]

@@virgogaming6488 That's cap, Iron man 1 is better than every DCEU movie by a long shot and the only DC movie that is better objectively is The Dark Knight which isn't even part of the DCEU.

[@TF2Fan101]

Three words: Warner Bros Executives.

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

Also they don’t involve the people who worked on the DCAU. Those people understand the DC characters so well and as a result they created some of the best cartoons that are still loved. I grew up on the DCAU and I have seen a few videos mentioning this problem. I feel like if they had involved those people associated with the DCAU we would have strong contenders for popularity in comic book movies.

[@woo3522]

The whole problem? Nah. Part of it? Definitely, yes. Zack didnt understand how to really craft these characters to make them “palatable” to the audiences. WB didnt understand how to manage a film universe.

[@pats3212]

It's not entirely the executive's fault, their rushed roadmap could have worked they just got the wrong person to do it, Snyder does NOT understand the characters, he wanted to "deconstruct" every single one of them in their first ever appareance in this universe, like you can make an Injustice or a TDKR movie WAY AFTER you've already stablished the vanilla versions of the characters, to make my point easier to understand imagine if Marvel did What If as their first stories instead of stablishing the vanilla versions of the characters

[@kaanfreakin5429]

@@pats3212 they should make new universe with matt reeves

[@ker7743]

@@kaanfreakin5429 Come on bruh. The Batman isn't even out yet . You're rushing it the way WB did for BVsS

[@kenz526]

The main problem with positioning event movies as the starting point is that there's too much reliance on them to succeed, which leads to too many cooks in the kitchen and incredibly convoluted movies that are ads for other movies. Contrast this with the MCU. They have had so many duds or mediocre movies in the mix (Thor 2, Iron Man 2, etc.), but it doesn't matter because most of the event movies are good and actually important. But even if they screw those up (Avengers 2, for instance), they can move past it because the audience still has fans of the individual characters, who were established on their own, and throughout the series. Also, it allows you to cut things out along the way that don't resonate rather than banking on everything to work out perfectly right at the beginning (including casting choices).

[@Deadmau5ismyhero]

It takes a lot to make a stew

[@MaxIronsThird]

Only sane comment in this entire section.

[@andyscott5277]

“They have had so many duds or mediocre movies in the mix" *Lists the only two real “duds”* 🙄

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@andyscott5277 Iron Man 3, Age of Ultron, Cpt Marvel, Thor 1, Cpt America 1, Black Panther, Black Widow, I.Hulk, Ant-Man 1 and 2, etc.

[@wayothefro3249]

@@MaxIronsThird The problem is that most of those movies you just named were received better both critically and financially than a majority of the DCEU movies. Solo movies, a majority of the time, are the best way to kick off and establish these characters. One of the most annoying defenses of Batfleck that I hear all the time is that "they would've established his character in a solo movie", which may very well be true, but now we'll never know and he's left as a character who gets all his clout for having one cool fight scene. Solo movies aren't always needed but they sure as hell help, even marvel with all of their success is still using solo movies to establish new characters like Shang-Chi or the Eternals.

[@dancliff2873]

I’ve been rooting for the DCEU for so long that I’m pretty burnt out. I’ve been hoping that they just stop and try again in like 10 years.

[@yermah9809]

This is the best way to describe feeling's towards dceu

[@RorikH]

I see that going two ways: 1) In ten years everyone has MCU fatigue because they decided that every character needed a show and also all of the main characters ran out their contracts so it's just Moon Knight, Ironheart, and the Eternals teaming up to fight Annihlus, and DC sweeps in and is like, hey, remember famous and popular super heroes like Batman and Superman? Cause we got em! And they make a ton of money. 2) In ten years everyone has superhero fatigue in general and the genre collapses. I personally feel that the MCU hasn't been that good since Endgame (Wandavision was cool though, Shang-Chi I liked the kung fu but not the final dragon fight). It just felt like the natural end, and it seems like it's just going to keep going forever regardless of quality because it's too big to stop and also the fact that the MCU still mostly has a reputation for quality will keep people going to the theaters. I'm also bummed that we'll never see Reed Richards and Iron Man hang out on screen.

[@dancliff2873]

@@RorikH fuck it, make 30+ years.

[@RorikH]

@@dancliff2873 That should work.

[@dancliff2873]

@@RorikH then it’s decided lol are you listening Warner bros?

[@dudetheman3]

I really hope that DC figures this out. As much as I love the MCU, I would be so happy and excited to see DC doing well.

[@inanimatesum4945]

My God that "doing what fans love, screwing up, wiping the slate" is literally the embodiment of DC. The animated movies were the perfect examples of this. For a while, DC dominated the animated space and honestly they could have even done theater releases to milk their incredible stories adapted to animated movies. Then Flashpoint happened and we had a WAVE of garbage. They speedran New 52 and when they saw how awful the stories were going and reception wasn't great, they did another Flashpoint. Although they started up with garbage by speedrunning Injustice! Absolutely mindboggling how much of a failure creative management has been.

[@damilolaowolabi6716]

DC is a hot piece of garbage. I have spent so much time defendoing the DCEU. At this point, ive already moved on a changed ship to marvel comics

[@uosdwiSrdewoH]

The CWverse managed to do the DCEU better on a fraction of the budget. Even their version of the Suicide Squad was so much better. I much prefer their Deadshot to what we got in the first movie. Their biggest problem is they don't adapt their stories the way Marvel does. There's no Kevin Feige overseeing everything. It's like each subsequent film isn't designed as part of a larger story but as a response to the previous film and almost a soft reboot that hopefully audiences will like. Doing it like this means the DCEU never gets off the ground because they're always trying to fix what they screwed up instead of stopping and thinking about where they want to go because they already announced the release date and making the date is always the priority.

[@Matt-xc6sp]

CW will probably continue to have the best Deathstroke for a long time

[@IhatenaldsMcDo]

@@Matt-xc6sp without a doubt. Such a damn shame.

[@ComicBookGuy420]

Yep, their Lawton was pretty damn cool, oh well

[@startrekmike]

I gotta be honest, I don't think the CWverse really would hold up to the scrutiny of a film audience. To be a bit blunt, I don't even really think CW's storytelling and writing format works unless you grew up with it and thus are able to overlook a lot of problems. Let's look at Arrow as a example. From the outset, it pretty quickly kinda fell lock-step in line with the Smallville format where the moody, mysterious main hero is immediately teamed up with a ragtag group of quirky friends who all speak to each other in awkward, almost pre-teen level dialogue. Watching Smallville, Arrow, The Flash, and the others all kinda feel like I am watching something specifically, almost exclusively written for the thirteen to sixteen age-group and while that isn't always a bad thing, in CW's case, it kinda is. The stories are not very good and the awkward, ham-handed dialogue doesn't really help.

[@gabrielmurray929]

Marvel having such a head start is a big part of it. Jumping from Man of Steel, and going straight to BvS to try and be where Marvel was is the core problem which comes off as being like Civil War except Civil War felt earned because Steve and Tony had been built up as characters and their relationship to each other had been built up, so when the two have a showdown over differing ideologies it feels earned and epic. Also Marvel just plans things out with their characters a lot better. Civil War was Marvel's 13th movie to BvS's being the 2nd movie of the DCEU. Also I personally feel that even the more flawed entries in the MCU like Thor: The Dark World, Iron Man 2 and the Incredible Hulk aren't particularly bad while stuff like Suicide Squad and the original cut of Justice League suck.

[@bashengatheblackmanta7003]

Agreed, here's what I think they should have done for dceu: 1-Man of steel 2-The batman(set 6months before mos) 3-Batman v superman worlds greatest 4-Wonder woman 5-Justice league(snyder's version) 6-aquaman 7-shazam 8-the flash 9-harley quinn&the bird of prey(a filler crossover movie and also a set up/prequel movie to the suicidsquad meant to tell Harleys story) 10-the suicidsquad:after the justice league event and the league become public heroes, Amanda assemble a her own team to work on to work for her on covert mission for her. The plot will revolve around the squad going after intergang(who are selling alien tech from jl in the black market) This

[@Whitneypyant]

@@bashengatheblackmanta7003 they should have done Aquaman, cyborg and the Flash before even doing Justice League.

[@TomCruz54321]

The funny thing is a lot of DC fan girls are completely happy with this direction. They deny all criticisms and they defend the sorry state the DCEU is in right now.

[@ahappyklingon3631]

ZSJL was no better. That somehow was worst than the theateriacl verson.

[@mylesbright8515]

Flash fans: Can we finally get a solo movie that focuses on Barry and expands the flash mythos DC: “WHaT , yOu SAiD YoU WaNt BaTMaN?”

[@DinoDave150]

That's pretty much DC when you ask them for anything.

[@alphareturns5988]

Bruh you haven't even watched the movie.

[@AdamOMcMurphy]

Warner Brothers more then DC, but we get you.

[@morbiuscrystal4875]

@@alphareturns5988 Ezra Miller sucks

[@rafdor5131]

@@morbiuscrystal4875 Grant Gustin is the definite flash but I think Ezra deserves a chance. I'm excited for his movie. I hope it doesn't suck.

[@theactionman007]

I've been saying it for years. Give Bruce Timm, Eric Radomski, Paul Dini, and anyone else they want the reins on the DC Movie Universe. They absolutely rocked all the animated series. Too bad WB doesn't take their animated series seriously.

[@anirbande7893]

It's also really stupid to use one-off stories which were meant to be deconstruction of the popular characters as the source material for movies meant to establish them. (I'm looking at you "The Dark Knight Returns"). These stories generally explore the 'fatal flaw' of the characters and take it to It's (usually) most extreme conclusions. I hope I don't need to elaborate what happens when you make the worst tendencies of a character their defining trait. The worst part is, the movies end up acting as an influence on the comics themselves in a weird sort of feedback loop and changing the characters until they're unrecognizable. Needless to say it's terrible idea if want to retain fans. And it shows in the sales figures.

[@joebove4]

When you get down to it, the groundwork for the DCEU’s failure was right there in the start. If you want to make an extended superhero universe, you have to start with people who actually care about that universe. Marvel had that with Jon Favreau. Zack Snyder made it clear that he not only didn’t like DC Comics, but that the only comic he really liked was Heavy Metal. And you just can’t start from that point. When your foundation is built on a creative vision from someone who neither likes nor appreciates the source material, everything else falls apart.

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

This is sadly true. I feel like had they gotten the people who worked on the much loved shows from the DCAU (DC animated universe) like Bruce Timm and Paul Dini as examples we would have a strong rival for Marvel movies. There’s a reason why the shows from the DCAU are so well loved. It’s because the people who worked on the linked projects had a deep love and respect for the characters. Personally I’m hoping that DC will contact at least one of the people and ask them if they want to work on the DCEU franchise (that and we get Static and Jon Stewart’s Green Lantern in a future DCEU project).

[@joebove4]

@@mirandagoldstine8548 honestly, I’d even take Greg Berlanti at this point. Whatever the shortcomings of his CW DC shows are, they at least demonstrate love of the comics and the characters.

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

@@joebove4 True. I just hope Warner Brothers realizes they might need people who actually care about the characters.

[@cookingwitchefzayy8830]

I think the problem with DC is that the people behind the DC movies is that they try to be marvel I think DC should focus on the writing of characters which DC has a strong suit in and the emotions of the characters like you said bigger isn't always better

[@sheet3334]

You cant say that when we have joker, zacks snyders justice league, bvs, birds of prey.. basically most of dc films including the upcoming batman.

[@shealupkes]

I think their main problem is they're emulating marvel perfectly and are getting the same result

[@Michael-mt6yb]

@Snehil Shrey both films were bad tho. I wish they would stop listening to sunder fans and just sit down and actually plan things out.

[@Michael-mt6yb]

@Snehil Shrey while I didn’t grow up interested in Marvel, I agree with you that NWH was great. Well planned out. It would have been nice for Zachary to intern and learn but we can only wish and hope he’s forever locked out from WB so we can focus on Reeves to save this universe.

[@LauraSurf]

@@Michael-mt6yb protect Matt at all cost. Keep Snyder away from all of these characters. He and his fans are horrible for this universe. I like what Matt is doing. They should follow ship. This is a man who is all work no talk, the exact opposite of Snyder.

[@IsaacGerken]

One of the biggest problem is that they keep repeating the heroes' origin stories. We all know by now Superman is from Krypton and grew up in Kansas, and that Batman's parents were killed. Every time I hear about either of those, I audibly groan. Repeating origin info makes it seem overly simple, wasting screen time that could move heroes forward as complex people. I never want to see pearls drop again. Ever. It isn't the casting, it's going back to the beginning, like the DCEU is running a very short, circular track, over and over.

[@mr.cloudgoggles355]

Y'know, when Tony died in Endgame, I honestly started crying, but when Superman died, I laughed

[@howmuchistoomuch]

Y'know,when clark died in bvs, I honestly started crying,but when ironman died, I laughed

[@deKlaw_04]

Y’know when Superman died I was sad especially when the world realized they were wrong about him finally embraced him. When iron man died, I was also sad because of his character arc after 11 years. Did I cry for both, no but I was still sad about it. I did cry when Superman got the black suit and the portals scene with all the hero’s in endgame so there’s that.

[@whysosnappy8016]

I couldn't give less of a shit about either but if I am being honest Tony's death still felt earnt unlike Superman's

[@shealupkes]

I laughed during both scenes, it was obvious they were bringing them back

[@md.zahidulislam9067]

Its because Superman has a history of being alive again. He is not a human being. One the other hand, Ironman is dead.

[@flamingknight1356]

DCEU will never compete with marvel unless they get their act together. They don’t bother giving us characters arcs when I watched BvD Superman’s death was like “oh he died well that’s sad I really don’t care because I know he will come back because this is only the 2nd installment” unlike when tony died you knew he wasn’t coming back because of the arc and journey he had. DC doesn’t give us anything to feel empathy for the characters. Unless they can start making us feel for the characters and doing better they can’t ever compete with marvel.

[@mr1nal]

Without making the audience care about the characters and building their story arcs, you can't make them butt heads against each other - Civil War worked because people knew what kind of character Tony is, and what kind of character Steve is - so it made sense for them to be on opposite sides and for the audience to understand their motivations - while BvS and to a larger extent Justice League felt forced! The problem lies that at the top for DCEU/WB - there are just producers and not comic-book enthusiasts who care about the characters and the story-arcs! They do not trust in their characters, keep on changing and rebooting story arcs & characters on a whim and just focus on trying to create 'big moments' which ultimately end up feeling hollow (the whole Steppenwolf thing in Justice League) The animated Justice League TV series had a such a great start and introduction to the whole Justice League saga - contrast this with the debacle that has been the live film adaptation! While I respect Snyder the film-maker, that was not how Justice League should have started - those conflicts can show up once you've made the audience care for the characters - and they took away what made Superman click in making him a brooding God in Man of Steel and then positioning him in such a way in Justice League that it made other characters look weak - I went with my non-comic book lover friend to watch Justice League and that was his response - these fellows are d*cks without Superman! As an ardent DC lover, I hope they take some correct inspiration from their own animated universe MCU and start making sensible movies!

[@jooei2810]

The latest Batman was a tour de force, hats off to Robert Pattinson and Matt Reeves for pulling it through!

[@smell-of-rain-and-coffee4041]

This! Also, the whole "subverting expectation" grimdark thing. While we like our childhood heroes challenged, we rarely like them destroyed. We have The Boys for that, and everyone enjoys it because it's the dark version of a thing we know and love. And but the actual thing - just let Bruce have his family?!

[@nothingherezero7182]

My guy have you never thought about the multiverse thered key difference and also It more like The hero from comic books plot into 21st century

[@doggoplex3462]

As a lifelong Superman AND DC Comics fan I can not possibly overstate how horrible Zack Snyder has been for the general view of DC characters. He fundamentally misunderstands the crucial parts of every DC character.

[@johnmoore6440]

You couldn’t be more correct

[@jobansand]

Yup. Superman is the embodiment of Love, Batman is Hope/Faith, Flash is Compassion, Wonder Woman is Justice and he doesn't understand any of that.

[@LuisSierra42]

Well, all that is over

[@elgenialbap]

You can see in the movies Snyder doesn't like the characters, he tries so hard to change what they represent to the point of making them unrecognizable.

[@EligorArgentum]

I believe snyder wanted they to finish as this embodiment. But he wanted even more for they not be, so they could be more down, tragic and etc. The point is that he inst rly...that good at telling a story. A Movie with his visual knowloged and a good director and writer would be a banger.

[@Nick-4K]

I just kinda hope DC just keeps doing all types of projects. Let the DCEU fans have their universe. Let the darker Batman fans have their universe. Let the Suicide Squad have their universe. Let Zack Snyder have his universe. They shouldn't follow the Marvel formula. They should do their own thing.

[@ChrisRobba]

Exactly, I love what dc is doing. Marvel is cheesy and boring to me. Dc’s films are much more interesting and diverse. I couldn’t disagree with this video more.

[@logannottheonefrommarvel9917]

I agree. I have nothing particularly against the DCEU, but it’s good to have some movies like Shazam and some movies like Joker that are a little bit more contained. Besides, I’m glad the DCEU is so varying compared to how similar so many Marvel movies tend to feel now.

[@jesseomollo9405]

Exactly I don't want that formulaic MCU stuff

[@LightsOnTrees]

It would be great if they did that, but they can't take there eye of Marvel. The Flash film, unfortunately, seems to be proof of that. If they were secure enough to just throw out a Flash film and see where it leads, I agree it would be much more enjoyable. But with all the flashpoint/ Keaton bologna it's just gonna be another bloated mess.

[@ChrisRobba]

Besides there’s a multiverse with endless realities in both marvel and Dc , why fans think everything needs to be the same makes no sense at all.

[@ontasbulent5709]

WB: Simple I was greedy and rushed my universe to catch up with Marvel and I hate my directors

[@ak_hoops]

"They're so desperate to show that they can compete with Marvel" THAT PART! Gosh I literally have a discussion on the DCEU's failure's at least once a week. And I think THIS is the root cause of the movies. Like I whole heartedly believe if they run (ran) their own race, then they could(ve) be(en) doing great! While on sheer IP they could compete, but they don't have marvel (DISNEY!) funds, so storytelling HAS to be better. But ehh we'll see. I just PRAY this flash movie is done right.

[@shealupkes]

to be fair general audiences don't pay for creative or thoughtful storytelling, they pay for haha funny men and violence, if people cared about character and plot marvel movies wouldn't make any money

[@joecool5356]

I feel your pain on having a discussion on DCEU’s failure’s so often and as a fan it hurts.

[@AndrewDeng]

@@shealupkes As someone who cares a helluva lot about plot and character in fiction, I heavily disagree. Sure, the mass audiences attend for the jokes and action, but people who became MCU fans stayed because Marvel set up a baseline for quality of character storytelling. I know you’re crazy blinded by anti-MCU bias from some other comment thread here, but Marvel does in fact think about their characters and stories quite a bit more than WB execs. Disney execs are also smart to not intervene that much in their movies.

[@vidarodinson5246]

@@shealupkes well if they think more about creativity and thoughtful story, MCU still have more money and successfull than DCEU. Do you not see DCEU mess all this time?

[@shealupkes]

@@AndrewDeng they set up a bar to clear for quality of character storytelling, and they're setting it lower every entry

[@PantaroParatroopa]

I miss when crossovers were strictly a one-on-one affair.

[@uriahturtleman817]

Batman Vs Superman Ultimate edition is absolutely spectacular, with the context of Zack Snyder’s justice league. He had originally planned to have it split into two movies, the studio condensed it into one. Then cut a vital 30 minutes from the film. They also charged him with introducing the Justice League, which is why he did it with the Emails between Bruce and Diana. If you ask me, he did the best with what was demanded from him. Imagine how his vision for the Trilogy would be for JL, without studio interference.

[@GameBreaker1055]

Yeah, that's the thing. DC always focuses on the big crisis and the colleteral damage and the angry faces, but completely ignores their characters themselves. I would not even say that most of them have personallity outside of the most superficial ones. The Dark Night trilogy also has a Batman that is... Not very emotionally expressive, but those movies focus more on the villains really. THAT Batman is also not part of any cinematic multiverse so it's not like he needs quirks that make him stand out when interacting with other DC characters. When you want characters to interact, they actually need to feel like characters and not just like the abilities and backstory they are based on.

[@angelq.1280]

Yess! Thank you for speaking about this problem. So many DC stories it’s hard to even keep track or care.

[@thwipkid]

Your videos always have the best edits, explanations, background music and topics that people don’t touch on enough.

[@47d75]

At this point, I'll see every Marvel movie they release, even if I never heard of the hero before, just so I can see how it all connects. But with DC, I'll go see the new Robert Pattinson Batman, and that's about it. The DCEU doesn't seem worth it to me in the same way the MCU does

[@merilum]

MCU is crap too

[@seb______]

@@asimhussain8716 or just let people form their own opinions on The Batman to tell if it was good or not. Give them money or don’t, they’ll all be released on digital anyways and you’ll still be giving them money regardless you see the movie on the big screen or not

[@Venom-ur3du]

@@asimhussain8716 SHUT UP

[@Venom-ur3du]

@@asimhussain8716 GO AWAY

[@Venom-ur3du]

@@asimhussain8716 SHUT UP

[@vsf_dave811]

The underlying problem with the DCEU is that it never set out to be a definitive DC experience. The whole thing was based on Zach Snyder’s take on Superman, which was fine as a stand-alone movie, but really doesn’t work as a universe starter like Iron Man 1 did. Then we get a rushed version of Batman that skips straight to the end of his career. I will say, Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman was pretty solid and was close to being a definitive experience. Aquaman was kinda interesting but missed the mark ultimately. Then we get versions of Flash and Cyborg that are really only shadows of their source material and are hastily introduced in a massive team up movie. Before you know it, you’re trying to jam together puzzle pieces that were never meant to fit together, resulting in the disjointed DCEU we have now. Marvel was so successful because at the bottom line, they created definitive live action versions of their characters with near perfect casting and a good balance of source material and creative story telling.

[@andyscott5277]

Yeah, but there’s nothing “fine” about MoS 😅

[@vsf_dave811]

@@andyscott5277 I honestly don’t mind it as a “version” of Superman and I think it did a lot of cool things. But it is absolutely not the definitive version of Superman.

[@andyscott5277]

@@vsf_dave811 just thought it was a travesty. A complete misrepresentation of the character. It’d be like a version of Batman becoming a Buddhist and practicing forgiveness 😅

[@vsf_dave811]

@@andyscott5277 lol I mostly agree. It’s a bad movie with a few great parts and some interesting concepts. I think the “Superman’s first flight” scene is arguably the best live action Superman scene ever. I liked Michael Shannon as Zod and thought his motivation was interesting. Henry Cavill was a great cast as Superman but the version they had him play detracted from his performance. At the end of the day, like I said, it just isn’t a definitive Superman.

[@tobsonasanya4765]

@@andyscott5277 no

[@noahtoons97]

I've noticed all of this from the beginning. You nailed it here dude!

[@LightsOnTrees]

Tom Holland's Spider-Man has been in 6 films and I'm not sick of watching him and not sick of his story. Of course the MCU hasn't been perfect, far from it. But it's been engaging and has known what to dump and what to continue with. What frustrates me about the DCEU is by committing to these big films they commit to there mistakes as well as there successes. It really doesn't matter that Thor 2 was pretty dismal, I just don't rewatch it, I do however rewatch Thor: Ragnarok and I can be pretty sure that Thor 4 will be more like the latter than the former, because Marvel put it's eggs in a lot of baskets then riffed on what worked.

[@shashankdwivedi5694]

Let me get this straight argument of using Tom Holland as character not being bored by same can be said of DCEU characters? And same can be said about DCEU movies like Synder cutJL, BVS Ultimate edition ,WW ?

[@Venom-ur3du]

@@asimhussain8716 SHUT UP

[@harshith5759]

@@asimhussain8716 not to mention, ww84 completely ruined her and took her character arc backwards. That's only one of the few problems the movie had though. And ZSJL and bvs UE Were improvements over their first cuts, but even then they're still mediocre.

[@shealupkes]

you're part of the problem

[@therookie5714]

@@asimhussain8716 yeah. They should have brought the flash from the tv show in imo. Would have been a lot more of an emotional connection.

[@AndreggvilJammer]

The Justice League/JLU animated show literally set out a blueprint for the DCEU to follow for character and plot development. Don't understand why they never did so, it's disappointing as someone who's been a DC fan since childhood.

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

I know. I have a feeling that if Warner Brothers were to announce that a DCAU alumnus had signed on there would be a ton of hype.

[@adadani]

This video was on point with my frustrations with DC and WB. I do think, we should not exclude the Chris Nolan Batman series’s because to your point, they focused on that one character and developed it, if they would’ve continued that same concept with other characters, who knows how that would’ve turned out

[@josefrootgum]

It all began falling apart when Superman snapped Zod's neck. Can't build a tall skyscraper with a shoddy foundation.

[@junaidkykartoot2413]

Man, you cleared my my every inch of my mind on this topic.Amazing.

[@trevonpernell0814]

When will people start putting the blame of the DCEU's establishmemt SQUARELY on the shoulders of WB? They are at fault. DC could only do but so much with little to no investment into them outside of comics for the longest time.

[@nothingherezero7182]

Because they taken out major plot points hell the one that Most people actually seen the Snyder cut of the flash running back in time they cut that out they also cut out for the actual good but most of the time they don't and also they trying to get marvel money fast and quickly they tried catching up with just like two movies

[@nothingherezero7182]

Because they taken out major plot points hell the one that Most people actually seen the Snyder cut of the flash running back in time they cut that out they also cut out for the actual good but most of the time they don't and also they trying to get marvel money fast and quickly they tried catching up with just like two movies

[@trevonpernell0814]

@@nothingherezero7182 Yeah, WARNER BROTHERS did that, not DC.

[@brittonius2]

The moment I saw that Batman/Superman symbol for DoJ, the very 1st thing I said was: "It's too soon for this, they're going to fast." I feel like your explaination put to words why.

[@BuckarooBanzai84]

THANK YOU so much!! I'm glad somebody is finally unafraid to come out and say it! =)

[@wllngtnjhnsn]

The problem with the DCEU is that it’s being run and micromanaged by men/women in suits that don’t care for the content nor the talent trying to bring said content to life. It’s why BvS (theatrical) happened, why something as ridiculous as Josstice League was allowed to exist at all, and why we’ve seen the studio fall out with so much respected talent over the last couple of years.

[@wayothefro3249]

the BvS director's cut ain't much better than the theatrical version and the same goes for the Snyder Cut, the fact of the matter is, DC chose the wrong guy to plan out their universe and that's becoming more and more painfully clear with these other director's coming in and finding way more success than Snyder ever did.

[@nyameleyefekaska2895]

@@wayothefro3249 BvS ultimate when released was number 1 on blu-ray for literal months. It turns out a movie is great when you don’t take out 30min worth of footage integral to the plot. The Snyder Cut is being hailed as a global phenomenon. This isn’t me stroking Zack’s ego this is me pointing out that this guy was their Fiege. In his universe they had a Martian Manhunter, Grail, Atom, SuperGirl, Batgirl, Desaad, Darkseid, And other characters literally living in that world. The world was massive and had was rich with mythology and all that good stuff, but everything was rushed. Not by Zack but by the studio heads. Also his movies were all successful. The only successful movies in the DCEU that weren’t standalones (financially) was WW, Aquaman, and Shazam and the were all connected to Zack’s work. TSS (even though it was amazing) flopped and we’re not gonna talk about ww1984.

[@itsmeagain_gerome3652]

@@nyameleyefekaska2895 agree

[@davidashton3671]

@@nyameleyefekaska2895 We all knew the reason TSS flopped was due to the pandemic, let's not kid ourselves. It should be obvious just with its receptions.

[@gonefishinglol04]

The entire dceu gives me a headache it's just all over the place.

[@waxilliamladrian]

The most well received films in the DCEU were the ones that WB execs didn't shove their grubby hands in. WB is the problem, constantly trying to keep up with Marvel instead of letting DC do it's own thing. Another element is that generally speaking, most critics of specifically the Snyder trilogy tell me things like "you should be able to understand a movie on first viewing" which is not what those films are going for. It's a combination of a bad company in charge of the property and the general audiences looking for something a little more digestible, causing that company to constantly question their property and make baffling last minute changes. WB execs thought Flash time traveling was too complicated for people to understand and took it out of JL but told writer Chris Terrio to have Batman brand Luthor at the end of BvS (undoing his arc,) that should tell you everything you need to know about WB. They don't understand these characters and hamper the creatives they hire that do.

[@SerssVlog]

Most ppl wont uderstand the true u are saying

[@RorikH]

Does Snyder understand the characters? Wasn't everyone's complaint that he didn't understand Superman, or Batman? "Yes guns, yes killing" and all that.

[@papaparsley7695]

@@Matt90Nine honestly it just depends on what would make the story better, for example if the move "the green knight" was entirely digestible on the first watch then it would definitely take a lot of the charm and intrigue out of it. Though obviously it also depends on preference ig

[@waxilliamladrian]

@@Matt90Nine "Inception is more complex and still made sense" tell that to the people who still debate it today. BvS was also hacked up by the studio and the full version was received much more positively on home release. BvS isn't perfect but I cannot tell you how many times I've had to defend things that if you're just paying attention or have seen it more than once, you should know. That film is deceptively dense and often misunderstood, in my experience. A good balance is ideal and there are studio notes on the Snyder trilogy that I totally agree with, for sure.

[@waxilliamladrian]

@@RorikH One of my big takeaways from the response to the Snyder Cut from previous critics was that yes, Zack does understand the characters and they misjudged him. I was surprised to see several reviewers who didn't like his take say that for JL. He likes extreme action and all but the trilogy takes those characters on a journey for a reason, they are not completed arcs really until JL. I read a lot of comics, like a lot. And have for decades. He gets the characters, he was just doing something different with them. I think his trilogy shows how you can adapt and make changes while still keeping the spirit of the character, similar to Nolan's drastic changes to the characters in his movies.

[@dannybenhur6123]

Nice concept, I like how you pointed out Event movies.

[@beermanmccool1226]

I disagree about Justice League being WB's biggest misstep, though it's a big one to be sure. Their biggest misstep was killing Superman in the _second movie_ of their big, decade long, multi-movie cinematic universe. One of the biggest criticisms of Man of Steel was that Superman was cold and distant, which resulted in a main character most audiences didn't like. Then Batman v Superman comes along and all the character development people wanted for Clark just...wasn't there, because even though his name is in the title of the direct sequel to his own movie, he was reduced to a moving plot-device instead of a character and the majority of what little screen-time he has is spent on him just looking sad in the sky, or looking sad on a farm, or looking in a burning building, or looking sad on a snowy mountain. They did nothing to make people _like_ this Superman, but expected shock, awe, and tears over killing him. You want failure? Generations of children and even some adults are traumatized by the on-screen deaths of a lion dad, a dinosaur mom, and a talking truck that turns into a robot. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice stabbed Superman through the heart and killed him, graphically and brutally on-screen, then spent the following 20 minutes showing how sad the world was that he was gone (same world that did nothing but call him a scary space monster, but whatever)...and basically nobody cared.

[@realranbirkapoor3570]

Finally someone who said that. All this time, I thought that I was the only one who had a problem with Superman dying in the second movie, I am glad somebody understood that it was wrong. The thing is, Doomsday is supposed to be like Superman's arch nemesis, like it's supposed to be at like the Endgame of DC. Well, they wasted him in the last 30 minutes of BvS, I just feel sad that there are MANY villains for Superman like Bizzaro, Manchester Black, Lex Luthor in the Lexosuit (which I wished they kept in BvS but they didn't), Parasite, and many more. Heck, even till this day we haven't got to see Braniac on the big screen who is like one of the biggest villains in DC. What do you think?

[@sterling9314]

I’ve been a DC comics fan for pretty much my whole life, and it breaks my heart to see their movies fuck up so bad.

[@Vitaphone]

The other interesting dilemma DC faces by this approach is that when characters we don’t know (not to be confused with recognizing) with say a character we have spent time with… is they are in a dilemma of giving a big beat moment or plot moment to this new character to establish them as why the audience should care about the character, but when they do this to a lot of the audience who isn’t a fan of said character is going to naturally feel like it was un earned for this character, meaning established character such a Superman should have a big beat (story wise)but since the since the film is trying to introduce a character we know nothing about they give big beats to said character instead of the character we already know that more organically should have that beat or plot point… it leads to really forced and inorganic storytelling.

[@matthewweflen]

The bizarre thing is that DC has not one but *two* expert creative teams who have already succeeded in creating well-received interlocking story universes - the animated shows of the 1990s and the Arrowverse on CW. Both teams demonstrated understanding of their characters and an ability to build stories over time by starting with strong character stories. Why WB refused to leverage their input is beyond me.

[@Antwannnn]

I cried over Yondu, a character I was only introduced to in 2014, and never batted an eye for Superman. That's why DC fails.

[@jvmeel7454]

I feel this on a molecular level

[@rafdor5131]

This is so true.

[@bigboy2281]

Honestly it’s amazing the the dceu is this bad HOW do I care more about a talking raccoon and a tree the freaking BATMAN AND SUPERMAN 😭

[@jvmeel7454]

@@bigboy2281 Its honestly really funny that the DCEU let itself become such a dumpster fire😭

[@jorgecortinhal7654]

Guys, the problem is WB fired many directors and messed up many movies, mainly in the second movie BvS (a movie that already was divisive and complex) and Suicide Squad, the 1st team-up movies.

[@thesahel7218]

The only reason we cared about the Bruce vs Clark fight was because they were already friends for like two decades. The dceu just had two strangers fighting in a wet warehouse.

[@surfersilver6610]

Meanwhile in the MCU we cared about the Stark vs Rogers fight because they were friends for like 2 movies.....The MCU had two heroes fighting in a cold Silo bunker. The fact they made us care when they only had a few movies vs Bats & Supes DECADES of movies, Animation, TV shows and general public knowledge of the characters vs the unknown Iron man & Cap, says a lot about both studios. Only Marvel's Spider-man & Hulk are well known to the general public around the world, like DC's Bats & Supes. Marvel has no female equivalent to Wonder Woman.

[@Romezguide]

Really loving your channel!!

[@nickalexander3755]

See, this is why, despite their faults, and all of the hate they garner, I have a lot of respect for the DC shows on the CW. We had two seasons of Arrow before the Flash even showed up. And then they started small with the crossovers. These characters already had a connection, they knew each other, they've worked together before, now they both are teaming up on a larger scale. Then Supergirl got thrown into the mix. That one is especially noticable because Supergirl really did have to stand on its own for an entire season, since it was on a completely different network in a completely different continuity, and that's how they ended up introducing the multiverse. It felt natural, since viewers of all shows would be excited to see them team up, since it wasn't thought to be possible before. Say what you want about the shows themselves, but they accomplished what the DCEU tried and failed to do. And they did it all without Batman or even Superman for the firstany years

[@kazinadbiralamadit6905]

You know you & some other guy in the comments of this video are actually have some of my favourite comments on KZbin regarding the Arrowverse. I am a massive Arrowverse but even I can say the are very far from flawless, but you both recognise that & admit it but also show that how they succeeded where the DCEU failed.

[@Oriansenshi]

I think the problem is that the intro movies to the DCEU were very polarizing. Zack snyder's vision was not for everyone, and what he was crafting was not something that the general audience would latch onto. Then going into justice league it felt like we had no characters we knew and cared about. And since then it has just been varying degrees of damage control with some standout hits.

[@herloss448]

He was crafting garbage actually Simple

[@hyjonksidk9568]

I needed this. Sums up what I’ve been saying all along

[@ak_hoops]

MAN! Kinda speechless...you hit it all spot on! Wow! I feel seen 😭

[@TIGER-xk4gk]

While no other company could ever replicate the success of the MCU it does feel disappointing that DC has always fallen short on it

[@ANDREWjkl1]

DC: low quality films, 1 or 2 great ones MCU: consistent average quality, fun/forgettable films

[@Bobby_30]

That's why these "average quality" movies are breaking box office records right? Eternals was bad, and Thor 2 was bad let's be honest

[@ANDREWjkl1]

@@Bobby_30 It's because they're fun, man. I enjoy them, but I don't have any strong feelings about them, except one or two of them. I'm not trying to sound pretentious, it's just my opinion.

[@YY-wu7et]

@@Bobby_30 “durr popular = good” Marvel shitsniffers, everyone.

[@Bobby_30]

@@YY-wu7et You're a buffoon lmao. You've never watched endgame, spiderman homecoming, avengers 1, or any MCU movies? It's as popular and successful right now for a reason. It gives the fans the most entertainment. DC animated movies are better than DCEU 🤣🤣

[@joecool5356]

Thank you, I thought I was crazy when my friends didn’t see this blatant waste of potential. I love DC, as a child the animated stories were so good that it helped shape my morals and pull me into comics. I became immersed their world and now it’s nothing but constant disappointment as they sully their own name that also leads to the average person to assume that DC must just be a lame version of Marvel or worse. It hurts so much when people look down on something you cherish but I cannot blame them.

[@surfersilver6610]

"Hey Joe, where you going with that bird in you hand?" "Hey Joe, where you going with that bird in you hand?" "I'm going down to see my poodle lady, you know I caught her messing round with another Hu-man" "I'm going down to see my poodle lady, you know I caught her messing round with another Hu-man" I'm not a 'DC guy' but I'm disappointed in WB/DC, because with all the HIGH PRAISE I've heard/read about their animations, I keep saying "why not hire THOSE guys to write for the movies& assist directing" but alas it doesn't happen. smdh. I feel you man I feel you. I grew up watching the Camp 60's Batman & Robin TV show & that had more care about the characters (By top actors & the writers)than the movies. The actors COMMITTED to the 'silly' roles and made it a great thing instead of just phoning in their performances. Ceasar Romero's Joker, The Riddler, The Penguin....all true to their 'silly'(from an adult perspective) comic characters. Snyder missed the point of everything doesn't have to be broody or serious with these characters and make us have fun & care before you go all serious, broody & dark.

[@joecool5356]

@@surfersilver6610 Thanks for this reply, I’m just glad I’m not alone in this opinion. I love the reference, Peanuts really helped shape my childhood as well

[@Harkness197]

Great video, growing up I was a super DC fan due to the cartoons but honestly since the hero industry hit the big screens I've preferred Marvel for the reasons you discussed.

[@iarland9693]

This is a fantastic video.

[@MrGameFreak777]

The X-Men movies had a similar issue with just going from event to event to event. First you have First Class, a movie that establises the X-Men and it is a good movie, but after that it is all event movies. Days of Futures's Past, Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix. They keep introducing new characters and putting them in world ending events, but why should we care. The characters are not developed so if they die or turn evil there is no impact.

[@therookie5714]

They should have continued on with the story following X-men days of future past and returned to the X-men 1-3 formula with the classic characters

[@therookie5714]

We also never got a conclusion to the og magneto and Xavier which sucks because there actors were so good

[@Realivangarcia]

@@therookie5714 Xavier dies in Logan and Magneto was killed by Xavier. It was hinted that Xavier had a heart attack which he telepathically killed most of the X-men that were in the mansion. Logan was one of the only survivors and also why we don’t see any other X-men in the movie.

[@therookie5714]

@@Realivangarcia it’s confirmed that “Logan” was an alternate universe and days of future past is the ending to the X-men 1-3 timeline

[@kingrix]

Why does no one at WB understand this simple problem? It's not rocket science. Just make good films that focus on character and story, and the box office will reward that. Wonder Woman and Aquaman are the most successful DC films because they have character arcs and stories the audience can follow.

[@WL1264]

did aquaman really have gud character and story? movie just looked cool and had cool action scenes....and jason mamoa has fun personality....... even wonder woman tho......being very generous here.....

[@kingrix]

@@WL1264 I didn't say Aquaman had good character and story, only that it had a character arc (which it did as Arthur goes through quite a change over the course of the film) and a story the audience could follow (which it also did as there is an inciting incident, a quest, conflict, retrieval of a macguffin, and resolution). People are entitled to their own opinion as to the quality of those aspects of the movie, but one cannot deny in good faith that they were present.

[@herloss448]

Aquaman is the only one from those 2 had a character arc .WW didn't have character development

[@anthonycomito403]

This is a great explanation

[@ameliawarfield5637]

I'm impressed with this informative video.

[@MaxIronsThird]

Identity Crisis isn't actually a CRISIS event.

[@DeBadmus]

I think your analysis was delivered quite well. I personally wanted DC to do well and geez!! They have disappointed nearly every time. In my opinion, ONLY Shazam stands apart (Wonder Woman was way too boring). ‘Event fatigue’ is accurate; we should fall in love with the individual characters before any major event. Why WB can’t seem to understand that is a mystery.

[@gainsgamingNYC]

Oh shit, Tyler's back. Hope all is good!!

[@The_Infamous_Boogyman]

I certainly like a LOT of the Snyder cut over the original, but without the senseless abuse of slow mo (a sesame seed? A hot dog?) It would've run a lot better and probably been around 3hrs maybe even 3 1/2 but he abused the hell out of that effect. But the glass shattering to save Iris was pretty bomb.

[@dylandelarosa3075]

I agree. They went too big too soon. However, they should’ve owned their initial mistake. And took stepped back and like you said develop each character JL introduced into their own franchise, then build up to the crisis

[@KingdomHearts3x]

Grant Gustin over Ezra Miller based on how the characters are written.

[@Water_Me_Loan_64_YT]

:)

[@powangel1418]

Grant Gustin is The best flash Tbh If only the show stayed Good 😔

[@powangel1418]

@Snehil Shrey W Cap

[@jaycole4390]

Ezra is cringe

[@whysosnappy8016]

I will take ZSJL Flash over S4-S6 Gustin Flash any day and unlike Gustin , Miller doesn't need to bitch to his friends at Star Labs and have terrible sappy conversations with Iris

[@shazzbutter]

Wow. Well-articulated.

[@nasirmeraj618]

10:40 Dear God, that chicken strut run is absurd. 🤭 Really solid points.

[@javoryduncan2224]

Its sad that the most developed character in all of the DCEU is a sidekick to a Main Villain. When Harley Quinn has the most development before your star hero's and star villains you know you've fucked up.

[@aleczero4646]

What's going on with the movie you had the kickstarter for last year?

[@aarondolan973]

The Snyder cut is 4 hours and 2 mins that is not “almost 4 and a half hours long”??

[@Hollowdude15]

Nice video man :]

[@glyle2504]

They started with Superman-cool. The VERY NEXT THING was Batman V Superman before we even got a Batman movie. We get a Wonder Woman movie because she was ALSO in BVS…and then it’s straight to Justice League. I just don’t get it, it’s like…build your foundation first. Don’t introduce your flagship hero in a double-feature. Don’t introduce Doomsday and Wonder Woman in that movie. It just doesn’t make sense.

[@Xion999]

I had high hopes after seeing man of steel in 2013. That movie, at the time, was amazing.

[@jjk28141984]

Gotta do it... but... to "Umm actually..." you... Your description of Flashpoint is not really accurate. Barry Allen doesn't jump to multiple dimensions. He goes back in time to save his mother and completely changes the mainline DC Universe. I won't go into the retcons to that but thats how it was pitched to us and how it was originally written. So Didio was somewhat justified in describing as "not a Crisis" book. Also, I don't think there can possible be a discussion about whether or not The Synder Cut is a better film than the theatrical cut. Of course, it is. The theatrical cut was widely considered by critics and fans as pretty awful. I don't care if you think the Synder Cut is only .0001% better. It is better. As others have pointed out in the comments, its abundantly clear that DC has never been the problem. Terrible, terrible decisions made by Warner Brothers executives were to blame. I respect ANYONE'S opinions regarding a dislike for Snyder's vision. But a bulk of the decisions regarding Justice League amounted to a year-end profits and executives' bonuses being boosted by a shorter runtime which meant more showings, which in their minds meant more money. But what they failed to grasp is that only about half of the fanbase was onboard anyways. A course correction was needed. But Joss Wheadon was a mistake. If fairly well substantiated rumors are to be believed, filmmakers like Muschietti, Wan, and Dwayne Johnson have fully supported the Synder Cut and consider their films a followup to it. As for The Flash, I think its clear that it is their attempt at the FINAL course correction. It will probably merge all well received concepts together, losing a lot in the process, and will finally set a clear course...at least that should be the plan.

[@Name-qn8ew]

WB didn't had a proper plan they should've done like henry cavill said on an interview setting up their main heroes one by one each their own movies and then a team up film in future project aka justice league but no they f***ed that up especially when BvS was already introduced very very early, and i hope flashpoint fix everything in a right way

[@marcosantos9071]

The problem is that DC life action sucks… DCEU or not… we, casual viewers, and what would be the majority just do not enjoy DC, is not just the event fatigue.

[@zhongxina8426]

The 90's DC animations had one thing most of the DCEU doesn't have. Good writing.

[@mirandagoldstine8548]

Very true. The DCAU was awesome. I wish they got Paul Dini involved or even Dwayne McDuffy before he passed away. I’m hopeful that The Batman will take some inspiration from Batman the Animated Series with it being focused around a mystery.

[@saxyrep1]

I have to disagree with everyone here : A flashpoint paradox retcon for the DCEU is the best way to revive it.

[@rafdor5131]

Couldn't agree more.

[@Xion999]

The flash: days of future past 😏

[@ShadeDraws]

Normies could not care less about DC anymore. Making a super-convoluted movie that only nerds would get is absolutely the last thing they should do. Your average movie-goer doesn't care about continuity; they just want quality movies.

[@gabbar51ngh]

Fuck that. Reboot the whole thing. Let few movies which worked well keep on going like gal"s wonder woman, Aquaman, Shazam,etc. Then close it off for good. Start completely afresh

[@saxyrep1]

@@ShadeDraws Yeah but let's be honest : Comics book noobs aren't the goal here. A normie wouldn't have any problem with an adaption of a superhero that's violates everything the character stands for. Also, comics are very mainstream now, so unless you're 50 or up, you have a pretty good knowledge of JL characters. And, I agree with the people who made the video in that trying to "be first" or better than Marvel is what led to the trainwrecks we've had. If they just try to embrass the fully nerdy side of things while making coherent stories and compelling characters, the flicks will be good and successful and it doesn't matter if it's more or less than Marvel. Also, I hope they make them R rated. That won't affect sales negatively, in fact, it's the opposite IMHO.

[@luismoreno-tr7ze]

EXCELENT VIDEO

[@enzodapan5016]

Tbh I'm liking their new direction now compared to what Snyder has done. More character focused movies like BoP, Shazam, and TSS where there's no tease to some bigger thing and letting the directors do what they want. Tho it may not be perfect (WW84 and the cancelled New Gods movie) I'm having my hopes up to their experimental approach.

[@dobi287]

The idea that you need a solo film for every character to "fall in love" with any character is ludicrous and relatively new. It was not popular to think that dumb shit until the mcu BOOMED in 2012 with avengers And for some odd reason this caused the hive mind to forget all the team movies that came before *STARWARS* ninja turtles Lethal weapon Lord of the rings Charlie's angels Predator Alien The a team Transformers _And on and on_ Or more likely all these freshly christened "experts" are exceedingly YOUNG and the mcu is what got them into franchise film making so they hold that as THE gold standard

[@kazuhasgloves]

oh this is gonna be interesting.

[@bojacknorseman9009]

Small note/correction: Man of Steel was less a response to the MCU but rather a hope to continue the massive success of the Nolan Batman trilogy into other DC characters - Snyder is hired to direct in 2010 and principal photography begins in 2011, a time when the MCU has released a few very successful movies but pre-Avengers and the beginning of it becoming a cultural juggernaut. The “response to the MCU” happens when Snyder pitches the sequel as containing Batman to set up the Justice League and more. Indeed, even the term DCEU doesn’t come from DC itself, but from an Entertainment Weekly article about Batman v Superman. This of course speaks to the way in which there wasn’t a clear central vision behind the film universe beyond that of Snyder himself.

[@vichofernandez1453]

I saw all of the movie animated films of dc, the last bundle started with flashpoint, an event film as you put it, it was left mostly at that but it started that whole universe and the quality of movies varies but the overall feel for the continuity of the movies was pretty good.