Why The Dragonborn Sucks

[@marcpiedrafita9644]

Video made by Alduin

[@uraverageskeleton6480]

Nani!!!!

[@superbrian7997]

Marc Piedrafita bwahahahaha 😂🤣

[@uraverageskeleton6480]

@@superbrian7997 bwa?

[@superbrian7997]

Sᴋᴇʟᴇᴛᴏʀ The boy “Bwahahaha!” Is way to laugh out loud... 😆

[@uraverageskeleton6480]

@@superbrian7997 interesting

[@Shadowrider1032]

"No such real attachment to Paarthunax" Me:"You picking a fight?"

[@PeteTheGrouch]

Nobody disrespects Dragon Sensei..

[@margisama]

I was attached enough to Paarth to download a mod to kill Delphine when she told me to kill him XD

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

To play devil's advocate, player's attachment to Paarth generally isn't real attachment because most times the attachment just comes out of a desire to hate Delphine/not kill Paarth. It's not really that players build a bond with the character over time but rather they don't want to make a bad choice in killing a morally good character just because some retarded bitch told you to do so

[@anoldtimer]

CoOlKyUbI96 Are YOU picking a fight?

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

@@anoldtimer I believe that's the idea when playing devil's advocate lmaoo

[@cybersloth2467]

The hero of Kvatch / Champion of Cyrodiil was a literal nobody. You gain fame as you do quests and people could love you or hate you depending on your actions. Skyrim didn't have a reputation system and people always treated you the same no matter what you did.

[@davidhatcher7016]

Mistake

[@alan4070]

You are wrong about that

[@davidhatcher7016]

@@alan4070 how?

[@alan4070]

@@davidhatcher7016 people don't treat you always the same in skyrim while not the best they do treat you differently if you killed someone's spouse and they know you did it they will hate you and if a child sees you kill there parents you can adopt them again not the best but people don't treat you the same

[@davidhatcher7016]

@@alan4070 yeah

[@bonehawk1173]

Dragonborn: saves nirn from dragons, vampires and everything else, clears dungeons singlehandedly, and stops the empire in skyrim or the stormcloaks. Hold guard: citizen

[@andrazprelec8263]

lets be honest none of the elder scrolls games were particulary immersive, from bugs to small pools of voice actros and prerecorded lines they are not realy worlds that suck you in

[@bonehawk1173]

@@andrazprelec8263 that's why mods are a beautiful thing am I right?

[@djmesa7203]

The thing I liked about oblivion was that you weren't the true hero, It was Martin septim

[@somegreekdude9225]

Sean bean*

[@davidhatcher7016]

Yeah

[@shadowstrider5033]

And then you became the mad god.

[@georgehutter339]

Agreed the "main character" was more of a bodyguard become hero everyone knew and came to hate or respect.

[@georgehutter339]

@@shadowstrider5033 and according to theory go on vacation in the blue palace

[@Baldilocks88]

"The dragonborn is simply better than everyone else" My Dragonborn: Runs to some hunters for help because he's being chased by a bear.

[@babygurleatsshickennuggits4201]

I'll be level 90 still running away because I know damn well that bear is still going to get me

[@egeorgiades93]

Never underestimate the DovaBear.

[@Nehauon]

Fus Ro Dah, and then use your weapon

[@cryotherapy7557]

Ong😭

[@mannypardo1080]

The Dragonborn always struck me as the blandest Elder Scrolls hero. The Nerevarine has a better prophecy and the Hero of Kvatch fights more dire threats with fewer resources.

[@flamesofchaos13]

Let's not forget the Eternal Champion saved the Emperor after 10 whole years of exploring and fighting with only a ghost for help. Then there's the Hero of Daggerfall dealing with well everyone in High Rock and their Mad God stopping an entire multi-sided civil war in secret.

[@kodey1m]

@@flamesofchaos13 I agree. These two were honestly the best heroes. The Agent starts off with a lot of complexity already thanks to their backstory you shape and then there many actions moving forward and the Eternal Champion fought against a truly cunning villain posing as the emperor who took every oppertunity he had to threaten and mock you in your dreams.

[@thebeyblademaniac]

I wouldn't say some Daedric Prince is a more dire threat than the literal end times, an aedric off shoot of a major god that is meant to consume the world in its entirety. It is however true that the Hero of Kvatch made do with far less than the Dragonborn had. The Dragonborn's lore is also interesting outside of the game due to the stuff with the Shezzarine, Talos-link etc. It isn't obvious in the game itself, unlike in Morrowind, but it's still interesting.

[@kodey1m]

@@thebeyblademaniac I agree. Honestly the fact that the Last Dragonborn is the Last Dragonborn is one of the things I like about them. They're still one of the blandest heroes though. My gripes just come from a different angle to most of the community. But then I get that a lot considering I think Skyrim and Morrowind are the weakest instalments in the series.

[@kyrieeleison9599]

Because you play as what you want It's an rpg You make him whatever you want U cant expect the game to do everything for you You longhammer wielding Skeleton

[@TitansBaneYT]

The thing I liked the most about the Hero of Kvatch was that even though Uriel said you had a greater destiny than being a prisoner, in the end of it all you weren’t the most important person in the story nor the real hero. Martin was, he ended the Oblivion crisis and stopped Mehrunes Dagon. Yeah, you helped set the events in motion but really you were kinda just like a side character in Martin’s story. I just like that you aren’t some prophesied hero like Morrowind or Skyrim. You’re just some prisoner who was asked to give an amulet to the last heir and help him become the true hero in Oblivion.

[@c4onmylip]

Eh, I wouldn't call Martin the actual hero and say the Champion of Cyrodiil just helped, I would argue it'sthe other way around. YOU did all the work, you're the one who went in and shut all the gates, you gathered the soldiers, you went and fought the Mythic down, you literally did everything while Martin spent half the quest having philosophical debates with himself and then just showed up at the end to save the day. Martin stole the credit and history remembers him being the hero because he became the avatar, I would argue the Champion is the actual hero, Martin wouldn't even be alive long enough to become the avatar if you didn't save his ass from Kvatch.

[@c4onmylip]

If anything, they're both the hero of the tale if you want to be romantic about it.

[@pupthatmayoooo6893]

I need to ask you to stop! That Shouting is making people nervous.

[@MrCjosue24]

"Too bad. There’s more where that came from."

[@arvindraghavan403]

@@MrCjosue24 I've got my eyes on you

[@MrCjosue24]

Arvind Raghavan 🤣🤣🤣

[@greirath1771]

Hail companion

[@joshmadden6976]

Do you get to the cloud district very often? Oh what am I saying, OFFCOURSE YOU DONT. *INSERT MARKED FOR DEATH SHOUT HERE

[@Cadewick]

Actually The dragonborn has faced defeat: >Mercer Frey betrayal >Astrid betrayal >Dark brotherhood destroyed because of you >Companions leader dies because you left Jorrvaskr >Savos Aren murdered because of you >High resentment from Riften citizens after jointing thieves guild >Was framed and sent to jail during the forsworn conspiracy >Was played by Sam in “A Night To Remember” and had to fix everything >Getting dragon souls swiped by Miraak The Dragonborn might not necessarily have a personality or character arc, but it’s character is defined through the player who created it and the imagination that makes the roleplaying aspect of the game come to life.

[@yellow_triad]

These don't count; the game requires you to fail in these circumstances.

[@laras8911]

It’s still neat to know these defeats even though it’s scripted. Gives you a chance to give a damn and role play.

[@nocthemedic2951]

@@yellow_triad but the video explicitly says losing to a hard boss doesn't count either. So if you can't lose to a hard boss, and you can't lose to a script event, how the fuck do you lose?

[@craigstege6376]

@@nocthemedic2951 The lack of really good character development outside of the dragon born is an issue in that regard too. You don't really lose anything if other people die unexpectedly. You are ALWAYS the agent of change, to the point that you can basically just reload anytime something goes wrong. The Elderscrolls games are all bad for this mind you - they don't have choices play out far enough down the line that the player is stuck in a sense of unsettled difficulty with the realization they could have changed this outcome six quests ago, but if they did they'd lose out on x, which is desirable, but came at the cost of y. It's not just the protagonist, it's the world development that Bethesda uses, everything is exceedingly reactive rather than just happening with or without the player. None of the losses have any real impact on the character because the character does not have enough other relationships networked into the game to have any real reinforcement of the bonds of friendship and so forth. None of it happens without the player's input and consent. No defeat is really a set back, just a minor speed bump.

[@nocthemedic2951]

@@craigstege6376 stop bitching about skyrim because it's not a copy paste of the Witcher. The Dragonborn doesn't NEEED relationships, the Dragonborn NEEDS to stop alduin. Everything else is a subplot for you to enjoy

[@joerobins5649]

The Witcher is always brought up in comparison to the Elder Scrolls, and that makes so little sense to me. The two games are so different that they're practically separate genres. There seems to be this idea that you can't make a game as good as Witcher 3 unless you do the things Witcher 3 did, and that's absurd when you're talking about games with completely different core designs. Yes, The Witcher 3 had great storytelling, choices, and character dramas. That does NOT mean that EVERY fantasy game has to have those traits. ESPECIALLY when those traits completely violate the core design of the game.

[@SiefausOsna]

Witcher 3 > Skyrim

[@ZombieBarioth]

The Witcher series, unlike most other games are also based on a novel series first and foremost, whereas those like The Elder Scrolls are based on DnD style role play. Of course the Witcher is going to be better written and tighter focused, its their world and you're just along for the wide. The 'problem' with TES is one inherent to interactive mediums as a whole, the more freedom and control you give the audience the harder it is to tell a cohesive story.

[@teddycouch9306]

@@ZombieBarioth Name one way skyrim has anything to do with dnd. I'll wait.

[@ZombieBarioth]

@@teddycouch9306 I was talking about the series as a whole. You don't have to look any further than Morrowind's combat system to see the classic RPG roots. Skyrim keeps the spirit intact, they just got rid of the dice roll system for combat, did away with set classes, and replaced attributes with the actual skills they govern. Basically, they thought outside the stat management box in favor of pure role play.

[@teddycouch9306]

@@ZombieBarioth Fucking lol okay then.

[@leedraconis5793]

The best game with a customizable, unique, and developing character? Dragon Age, particularly origin. It hits all the marks you spoke of, while still not being stuck in a prewritten character like in the Witcher.

[@theleanbusinessman5431]

You win this round

[@sylesdeas_8502]

Dragon Age is one of the best Fantasy RPG’s out there in my opinion. Origins being the best.

[@kiefermcginty6189]

My wife's favorite game of all time

[@motivateddad]

exactly in my mind the whole time

[@edwardelric717]

I hate the table top/strategy style of Dragon Age. When I first got it, I thought it was going to be Oblivion but better. Don't get me wrong, story and characters are decent but there's just something unfulfilling about not being able to control a character.

[@niamhmorrissey2187]

The Dragonborn needs a better reputation system, a smoother transition from nobody to badass, and maybe a few cutscenes of him losing (similar to when he first met Miraak) But aside from those things, I don't really see much problem with the DB. Comparing him to characters like Geralt doesn't really make sense considering Geralt is an established character within that world with an official name, face & personality and doesn't just need dialogue options to talk. Sure there's some wiggle room to put your own small spin on him, but at the end of the day, you're playing as Geralt. The DB on the other hand is pretty much an empty vessel for you to do whatever you want in the world. It's much harder for a blank slate to go through character development than a fully fleshed out & established character.

[@yakumaemelyne7443]

Empty vessel but you still know you tried to cross the border so as a normal person you shouldnt go see the jarl and all but try to cross the border again but eh you're blocked by the PROPHECY

[@sheogorath979]

@@yakumaemelyne7443 a normal person wouldn't be allowed to see the Jarl of course, unless said person had information about a bloody dragon on rampage in the hold

[@tingispingis]

It's a blank slate so you're supposed to develop your own character through how you interact with the world and your actions. Sadly Bethesda didn't make that possible

[@snxffys6436]

There’s a reputation mod that fixes this stuff you are also treated poorly if people find out your a lycanthropy or a vampire

[@greirath1771]

@@snxffys6436 but if i need a mod to fix the game, thats just retarded.

[@jefthereaper]

"The Dragonborn sucks" Actually, he blows.

[@Sir_Nixon]

And the dragonborn is an idiot

[@Sir_Nixon]

On underage kids

[@Himmyjewett]

@@Sir_Nixon you just called yourself an idiot

[@gyronnax]

@@Sir_Nixon am idiot like yourself

[@istaka1416]

Smart 😂

[@mattj500]

As much as I love the witcher 3. Skyrim was so goddamn immersive when i played it on my xbox 360 for the first time. It was literally the only thing I wanted to do for WEEKS. It's the only game that has ever done that to me. I'm still playing it today mind you.

[@ckopen7192]

skyrims bad, play oblivion

[@mattj500]

@@ckopen7192 anime is gay

[@wazirtahfiz3087]

@@mattj500 lol

[@ellisbarnett0292]

Immersive? Yeah, I’m immersed. I’m the DRAGONBORN FROM THE LEGENDS OF OLD literally killed a dragon that was chosen by a god to EAT THE WORLD, but yeah, that kid in the street, or the bandits, or any other npc for that matter treats me like some random ass vagrant... oh I’m immersed alright...

[@g1n882]

I don't understand why ya'll shiting on the guy for being immersed. So what he had fun it's not the end of the world and that's just how he feels respect that, and bro me two I first played on PS3, but I know what you mean Skyrim is my favorite game even over RDR2. Really the only thing I think sucks is how long it takes to be able to craft Dragon shit

[@unitNitro]

The thing is, the Dovahkiin is NOT INTENDED to be a fully developed character. He is designed this way on purpose. More than most games the Dovahkiin is truly "the Players's character". As in the player and the player ALONE is who determines the Dovahkiin's personality and depth. It is a Role-playing game afterall, you are given the role of "Dragonborn of Legend" and you are given the freedom to play that role, any way you wish. And only YOU can determine where his story begins and ends. Rather than playing through soomeone elses story never truly making their personalities, or controlling their thoughts, Skyrim lets you play your very own character. The only prerequisites being that for some reason the character is convinced to fulfill their destiny and stop alduin. (Though even that can be ignored with no consequence in the beginning of the game, meaning you don't even have to BE dragonborn)

[@june5204]

Still no choices. I can't even tell the blades that im not going to kill paarthurnax

[@RoyalJesusChrist]

Okay Todd. Sure thing. Great job.

[@soundofnellody262]

Although I agree with you, I just wish my character would not become leader of every faction and that the NPC's act a bit different the more you get into mainstory and major factions. Actually, I like that Dragonborn doesn't talk. I make my own conversations in my head rather than hear him saying somthing totally out of place. I love the Witcher games. But Geralt is Geralt to me. I had not to add anything to his character. Dragonborn is who I want him/her to be. But as a sideeffect, I really don't feel attached to anyone in Skyrim. Except Lydia. ;)

[@soundofnellody262]

@Rosario Manorang Manik I don't. Example: I like to play as an conjurer / necromancer. However, in my roleplay I try to join the college of Winterhold to learn more about this "forbidden" art. If I follow through with this questline (which I like) I end up being the arch mage. Despite I am a total noob. That is absolutly ridiculous. So I stop this faction - quests after a certain point. But it feels unfinished. Bethesda has the habbit to make the player always the faction leader. Even if it's not one bit logical.

[@saddemon2022]

Id accept that if the game gave me, you know, the means to actually roleplay.

[@connorsullivan2745]

You can’t give a blank-sheet one-fits-all roleplaying character any sort of character development! You just can’t! If you do, you immediately rule out 99% of role play builds! For other games with set character, sure, but Skyrim does not have a set character! You’re meant to create your own character, so the game would just be flipping the audience off if they forced them to reverse whatever they were roleplaying. The Dragonborn fits with the lore, and his entire purpose is to defeat Alduin. It isn’t a Mary Sue, it’s a long-prophesied saviour, and it isn’t telling their story, it’s giving the player a vessel to experience the actual story, which is the world around you, not your character.

[@shadowstrider5033]

This.

[@InanisNihil]

yes... exactly... just like GTA ONLINE...the online protagonist... i think rockstar did a good job actually acknowledging it in a story mode mission... where the Online player is mentioned.. butt stated to be extremely unpredictable.. so it acknowledges we the players are actually cannon to the main story mode.. butt does not define anything that any one of us is.. cause by being highly unpredictable.. the character at any moment and every moment is all of us.. had they actually defined anything... as u said.. it would throw out role playing completely.. so as the DB.. 😜 im am offended a video was hating on me... motherfucking dont know what i been thru... 😂

[@litchtheshinigami8936]

it actually could be possible if they make it in a way where you need to rediscover yourself and you can actually choose certain things a bit like a class system. say a mage has put a spell on them wich is why they don't remember anything. maybe a townsperson found the protag wounded at the edge of town and nursed them back to health despite her mother disagreeing as who knows how they got into that trouble in the first place.. only to find out that you yourself are someone destined to save the world but not just straight away like in skyrim no later on and slowly a bit more like morrowind did. you need to piece things together and maybe by the choices you make in conversations you can gain certain knowledge points about yourself wich you can then spend in character values wich then make the character have even more roleplay value.. or at least in my opinion.. you could still have the lore heavy hero person everyone expects but you won't find out about any of that untill later. and you begin as a nobody someone plucked of the streets.. maybe to fit the elder scrolls theme of waking up in a prison you were mistaken for a noble (or maybe actually are that noble) and someone pinned a murder on you that never happened thus the guards let you go because they found the real person who murdered someone

[@deadlydanny9713]

Well it is kinda mary sue-y but still you develop the character through roleplay its the point of the game. The problem with the witcher is you are either good or bad monster hunt man lol. In skyrim, you are the hero and you tell your story.

[@nigelcarter6895]

Enjoy your 69th like my fam. I give you my blessing

[@thefinalantagonist]

"The Dragonborn is superior to everyone else" Mudcrab: *sad claw noises*

[@barrygormley3986]

Another thing to note is that the Dragonborn’s personality changes noticeably depending on what each faction expects of them. In the companions quest-line, he’s a noble warrior. In the Clan-Volkihar quest-line, he seems to genuinely care about the fate of Vampire-kind and Serana (who I’d argue is the only is the only character he comes close to forming a genuine attachment too, even if this disappears when the quest-line is completed). In The Dark Brotherhood, he’s an arrogant assassin who enjoys taunting his victims before he strikes. In the main quest, he’s basically just a guy who asks questions so that the player can understand what’s happening.

[@ClasherG1416]

I can’t unsee this.

[@mallios13]

Wall of text. TL;DR: The Dovahkiin can't be compared to Geralt or similar characters, because that's apples and oranges. TES is a 2nd Person narrative, while Witcher is 1st Person narrative. The Dovahkiin is who you make, Geralt is made by the writers regardless of what you say. It's hard to say that the character lacks character development when the figure belongs to a game in which characterization is deliberately snubbed because they're supposed to be you, or whomever you create. Bethesda can't progress a character you made; if you want an example of Bethesda trying to address this very issue, look to Fallout 4. In FO4, the protagonist(s) is Nate/Nora, who have a relatively defined background and around whom the story is based. You get to see Nate/Nora progress with a clear arc as they make it through the wasteland of the Commonwealth - surviving culture shock, raiders, mutant beasts, etc. - all to find their lost son. The story is designed so this arc is multidirectional; you can choose to ally with your missing son or you can work against him. Nate/Nora aren't inherently better than everyone, in fact they actually begin with a disadvantage of being oblivious to the 220 years they missed out on and have to learn on their feet, and make allies because their only inherent friend is Codsworth, a Mr. Handy robot. They don't have a group of people to fall back on, there were no other survivors of Vault 111 to group together and try to make something of a home in the ruined vault. This was met with massive negativity, as players despised the idea of an RPG protagonist in which you create still having to adhere to a definitive backstory. What's more, people even hated that these characters were fully voiced. For all the flack Skyrim has received, few people actually hated the notion of the Dovahkiin, because the character was what the player made of it. All the growth, progress, etc. was largely left to the player's discretion and interpretation. You might as well condemn MMO player characters for the same issues. Video game heroes not suffering loss is really no different than virtually every story; be it video games, TV shows or film. Rarely do we see heroes actually suffer any form of defeat. In the case of the Dovahkiin, one could argue that the various questlines do take a toll on their person. Daedric quests generally involve the player becoming to some extent a minion of that daedric lord; the finale of Skyrim, in the Dragonborn DLC, also effectively saw the Last Dragonborn becoming a pawn to Herma Mora; replacing MIraak in that role. In much the same way that the Nerevarine is said to have left for Akavir, or the Hero of Kvatch becoming the next Sheogorath, the Dovahkiin may be bound to Herma Mora's will forever onwards. We could also say that the Dovahkiin being compelled to kill Paarthurnax is a form of loss; the only alternative to that is to ignore the Blades, but otherwise you're forced to kill a benign and benevolent dragon. Another form of progress could be found in the Civil War storyline; you choose the fate of Tamriel to some extent. Either you support the Empire, quell the rebellion, and allow the Empire to maintain two provinces; the other being High Rock. Or you support the rebellion and further weaken the Empire, joining with many other provinces in establishing autonomy, like Morrowind, Hammerfell and Black Marsh. Either way you choose, there's still a loss based on your choice; the Empire becomes weaker because it seeks to control all the provinces instead of form an alliance with autonomous nations, or the Empire allows Talos worship to die out and the Dominion gets closer to their ultimate goal. The Witcher series deals with a definitive character: Geralt. You aren't playing a character you created with a backstory you invent, you're playing a specific person and have virtually no authority over who and what they are. You might as well compare the Dovahkiin to any of the assassin protagonists of the Assassin's Creed series, because similarly, you didn't make them. This video sounds like a massive case of Apples vs Oranges. The Dovahkiin isn't worse than Geralt because they lack character development, they're two totally different types of characters. TES and such games are effectively told from a 2nd Person narrative, whereas Witcher and the like are either 1st or 3rd Person narrative; 2nd person being those Choose Your Own Adventure books, while 1st/3rd person are any standard work of fiction where you either play through their perspective completely, or you play from a more omniscient standpoint.

[@bladeb5163]

The Dragonborn isn't a blank slate, he/she will always be the dragonborn (unless you have skyrim unbound). You will always fight Alduin, Miraak and Harkon, Just like great will always fight the wild hunt, gaunter, etc. Your character has a narrative(a canon) that will play out same as geralts. The only difference is you have access to more cosmetic changes and more ways of building said dragonborn. I'm just saying, customising your overall looks doesn't make them not comparable.

[@mallios13]

@@bladeb5163 That doesn't mean the character isn't a blank slate, that means that regardless of what character you choose to make, the game only has that content to offer. And just because your character is ultimately compelled to do those things doesn't mean there aren't choices along the way that are for you to pick between. Skyrim Unbound also doesn't change those end results, it's just an alternate start mod, and even the original start still clearly showcases your character as a blank slate, as that's where you choose their race, gender and appearance, on top of the fact that the ramifications of your being captured and soon to be beheaded by the Empire are still for you to choose. The only way the Dragonborn isn't a blank slate is if you model your character off the promotional content's rendition of the Dovahkiin; if you play anything but that, you aren't playing the signature character, you've opted for a blank slate to fill in as you choose. You also have the option to forgo playing the main quest and civil war questlines, and instead play out your character as someone who is never declared the Dragonborn, but instead becomes one of the leading members of the other factions.

[@bladeb5163]

@@mallios13 If that's so, couldn't you also call geralt a blank slate, he has the same limitations placed upon him. Again customising your character and choosing a build does not make the dragonborn, incomparable to geralt. His personality is given change through dialogue just like the dragonborn's (in fact the depth of the change is even greater than what you can do in skyrim, because Bethesda actually suck at dialogue and writing in general.) You can forgo the main quest in the witcher too, you can forgo everything. Outside of canon the character's are still very comparable. Giving a character a voice and taking away the ability to customize theyre birthday suit, doesnt make them incomparable. If so you would have to say the sole survivor and the dragonborn are incomparable. It sounds like your defending the bad writing.(no offense to you.) Just because geralt has a past and profession set in stone doesn't make them incomparable, and just because your dragonborn doesn't have one doesn't make him/her incomparable to geralt or any character. Choices and conflict give depth to a character and those choices make them comparable to every other work of fiction. The problem with the dragonborn is that there is really no choice, outside of appearance and building your character. There is no branching storyline, no choices that have depth, no personality for you to have in the game. Most of what the dragonborn will say will either be a question, buy/sell dialogue, or yes or no.

[@kmk_music]

wow that's a long comment

[@bladeb5163]

@Mad Max Rockatansky no you dont, Geralt in the games is only geralt in name, you shape his personality. The dragonborn doesn't get to have a personality outside of the chosen one. Its always yes, sometimes no, and exposition. Again a character creator doesn't give your character personality. And skyrim has none.

[@trickyrat483]

Yep, the character is bland as hell. But seriously, who cares. The game is all about The World, The Journey, and The Dragons. It never really was about the character; you make him/her whatever you want, to suit your personal preferences and playstyle.

[@chufeng6223]

I am just angry because shouts are useless. Old spells from Oblivion were 1000 times stronger....

[@wiibrockster]

True. If I want my character to be an Orc Barbarian or An Imperial Crusader then I can. Hell one of my characters is An Altmer mage who's secretly a Thalmor Operative

[@chufeng6223]

@@wiibrockster Not really. I think Oblivion did a better job at that. But still, TES games still draw you to certain identity. Not asbsolutely but they kinda do and I think that situation is worse in Skyrim and Morrowind then Oblivion. Its natural for dragonborn to be nord and its natural for neravarine to be dunmer. You can argue that its natural fopr Sheogorath yo be imperial but considering his abilities and nature its not neccessarely so. Thats why I cant wait for a game in Summerset iseles since I absolutely love Altmer race and their buffs.

[@ditzyblonde9920]

You get better all of those in Morrowind but way better, plus good character lore. Minus the dragons.

[@chufeng6223]

@@ditzyblonde9920 yes but the whole story makes only sense if you play as dunmer with all that lore. Also gameplay is extremely boring with its combat system. Only good things about it is enchanting and the fact some skills have ridiculous caps. But the map is too small and there are many level restrictions for quests meant to make you advance slower aswell as Fast Travel being removed due to small map...

[@bq1013]

With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created. Thought you said the nerevarine cant fail.

[@devarain]

Nerevarine actually have CHIM. He can load game, I mean reverse time. Thats why he can kill 2 fake Gods easily

[@uja11]

I've come to accept the blandness of the MC of Skyrim but, in the very particular case of Skyrim, it's exactly what I wanted. Character development is always good but sometimes it's fun to just project yourself onto this demigod-like person and do things that way. It's just another form of escapism.

[@rangopistacho6928]

to be honest considering how trash the real world is right now i think we could all use some more escapism. it helps to remind us of better times

[@uja11]

@@rangopistacho6928 thank you, you now reminded me of skyrim and thus I have to install it back again lol

[@rangopistacho6928]

@@uja11 hey i got back into skyrim again too. i love the idea of being an all powerful wise and knowing dragonborn

[@melissagarrett9719]

I feel like this could have been fixed if Bethesda added back in the reputation. I mean, all Bethesda games kinda have you start quests at the lowest point and work your way up. You kind of have to start at the bottom. I feel like Fallout New Vegas did this the best. I was so shocked the first time I went into an NCR camp and talked to an NPC and they commented about how my character was a big hero and what was I doing in their camp. The biggest thing in RPGs in my opinion is making the player character have an impact on the world. Having characters and npcs bring things up about quests you've done and the changes in the world around them kinda helps you build that character into the one you want. I usually play good characters, and when I took out the powder gangers and made my way into Nipton to Boxcar, the crippled powder ganger in the shop, he referred to the Courier as the Powder Ganger's Grim Reaper. I'm not saying that the system can't be improved. But in a game where the protagonist is a blank slate meant for the player to project a personality and potentially a backstory onto, it's important to make them feel like they are more than just a ghost moving through the world. In Skyrim, it never matters who you are. You can be a thief but also be an honorable companion. A member of the dark brotherhood... but also never kill anyone. It doesn't make sense and breaks immersion. Reputations fix that. Because suddenly to enter the Dark Brotherhood, I might have to kill X many people before gaining enough notoriety with the faction to be worthy of membership. Oblivion did this particularly well. Once you killed so many people the Dark Brotherhood quest line would start. Basically, to sum up what I've been ranting about, when you can't have a prebuilt character with a traditional character arc, you can you can build your world in such a way that the player can make their own arc. Honorable Hero, Silent Killer, Grunt for hire, or maybe you just wanna murder everything in sight... all that is cool. You just have to have the world and npcs acknowledge your actions and give the player a springboard to create the Dragonborn they want to be.

[@TheKorbi]

Very well said.

[@greirath1771]

Im sure you made a good point, but... thats to damn long to read.

[@melissagarrett9719]

@@greirath1771 Sorry. 😅

[@greirath1771]

@@melissagarrett9719 lol

[@tokisugar]

Especially coming off of New Vegas, Bethesda could have taken notes from obsidian to make skyrim much better.

[@Galimeer5]

I think UpIsNotJump put it very well in his Skyrim VR video: Sometimes, when we get back from school or work, we don't want to dive into a complex story that explores themes of blurred morality and the unintended consequences of our actions. Sometimes we just want to switch off and get lost in an uncomplicated world that's beautiful to look at and fun to explore.

[@ananousous]

Which is perfectly fine, it's why Skyrim is a good game. But it's also why Skyrim's a subpar rpg.

[@greirath1771]

@@ananousous dont you fucking dare

[@leonardpanergo7066]

@@ananousous Skyrim does best as an action rpg imo, basically an action game with somewhat rpg elements on it. Oblivion on the other hand, i found it to be a better roleplaying experience and as an rpg. This coming from a guy that has spent more than 1000 hours in skyrim.

[@MrOsmodeus]

yeah action games are fun. but skyrim still isn't an RPG. your choices in skyrim are barely surface level. even the biggest choices like where you fall on the civil war don't really have any impact on the world. if maven becomes jarl she doesn't send riften's guards out to attack whiterun and solitude to shutdown her rival businesses. each npc has about a day to a weeks worth of story to them and after that they're just looping through it, the whole world just feels empty. would the world feel so empty if we didn't hear about arrows in knees and trips to the cloud district CONSTANTLY. nazeem's got the memory of a goldfish, guards don't have families, guards just spout lines about what your skill levels are at. even nonsensical shit like "hey enchanter my swords blunt, dull old thing can't cut butter" that's a blacksmiths problem. "hey summoner summon me up a bed" pretty sure a daedric bed would be counterproductive either because you're sleeping on duty or because daedric... simple immersion buffs like choices in quests, reputations with factions which are in the game just barely used, people referencing your achievements. like if guards can tell me about brittleshin pass they should be able to hear i cleared out brittleshin pass making the road to falkreath safer. if clear out kolskeger mine of forsworn the people of markarth should make mention of it for the next few weeks because they're families can get back to work. if i kill the local wordwall dragon you better believe people should talk about that. npc's should have conversations about my exploits if they aren't supposed to know the details. "did you hear somebody killed Narfi?" " really!? who would want poor narfi dead?" Skyrim is the first elder scrolls where the players existence feels unnecessary. you have little impact on their lives and your disappearance has little impact on them either.

[@lordjub-jub5254]

I always love how people can both simultaneously feel the world bends to much to the DB and also doesn’t do it enough

[@fq3530]

You may not have been able to fail in Morrowind or oblivion but you had to work to become stronger, the amount of duties and requirements needed to advance in morrowind’s guilds means that your character actually develops and becomes stronger rather than being handed powers no one else has.

[@AvartiPlaysGames]

This is a good point.

[@austinbolton1260]

I agree I do still think the dragonborn is an amazing character and most powerful of any game to date. wish he had a bit more if an ending

[@georgehutter339]

And becoming an over powered courier or a person to fetch things in a sense.

[@yellow_triad]

And you could actually fail in Morrowind's Main Quest

[@Mysticpaw]

@@yellow_triad Yes. There's that cave with bodies of ppl who had tried to fulfill the nerevarine prophesy.

[@TarikCutuk]

You could still make the player character fully customizable and have them be more engaging. You'd simply increase the number of dialogue options, the depth of the conversation system, and the quality of the writing.

[@ananousous]

Are you really asking Bethesda to put some effort in making their games? We don't do that here.

[@tokisugar]

@@ananousous True, thats for the modders.

[@jimbomclimbo7467]

@@tokisugar bethesda games are just game engines at this point

[@ХристоМартунковграфЛозенски]

True, but they'd need to account for a wide array of possible scenarios based on your character's race, sex and whatever options you may have picked in the game at this point. That's quite a lot of possibilities; still, they should perhaps take a bit longer to do it all and have an engaging, finished, well-written game.

[@lytherael2309]

I don't think it's fair comparing the Dragonborn to Geralt, to be honest. There's nothing customizable about Geralt, except his decisions. He's pretty much an "NPC", well not really, but in the sense of him being a character in the world with his own thoughts and feelings regardless of player choice. The Dragonborn isn't a person. It's wrong ot talk about him -as- a person, because he's basically not a character, he's you. Can you really talk about Soap as a character in Call of Duty MW1? Or any of the classes in Diablo 2? Really, it's like comparing a five year old playing with two sticks on a block of wood to Mozart. You sure can, in theory, but why though? One side clearly and objectively wins.

[@swagmoneymaxswagallday3639]

Personally I’d argue that the Dragonborn isn’t “you” per say but rather they are whatever persona you impose onto them

[@chiquitadave3304]

Hes talking about the canon story. The dragonborn isnt you, hes a hero and you are seeing that heros journey through his eyes. Gameplay wise yeah hes you, but story wise hes a dragon slayer that saves the world. The character of the dragonborn is the thing being criticized. Because the Dragonborn is a Gary Stu/Mary Sue and can shout so loud that the Jarl of Whiterun will have to pull his face of of his ass. Its fair to compare the two because it's on the basis of character development and their impact on the story, and the dragonborn is a crap character with no development.

[@radzilla748]

@@chiquitadave3304 remember when people complained that Nate from fallout 4 had too much development to be properly roleplayed with

[@chiquitadave3304]

@@radzilla748 It wasnt that he had too much development, its that he and Nora had no choice but to be the good guys, which is a rather lack of development. They were forced down a linear path and it gave no creative freedom to the players in what they wanted to choose to be. But that doesnt mean that a character cant have a backstory or some development. It doesnt have to be emotional development or moral development. I mean that having a character that can do whatever they want lore wise is a bad way to tell a story. The gameplay of the game is up to you and that's not what I'm arguing. I'm talking about the story, the lore of the Elder Scrolls games. What you do in the game is up to you and doesnt affect me. I'm saying that story wise the Dragonborn is a Mary Sue, compared to every other hero in the Elder Scrolls universe their journey was a cake walk. They never confronted an unstoppable foe or immovable object. Which is what the previous elder scrolls games had and gave their characters the development they needed. When I say development in not saying their character develops a personality of their own. I'm saying as a hero how their story develops and what they face.

[@radzilla748]

@@chiquitadave3304 I'm not doing this.. you obviously made up your mind. Cause your argument doesn't make a whole lotta sense. The Dragonborn literally had to fight an aspect of a time God, while helping in civil war that's ravaging through the land of Skyrim and learn to harness his new found abilities to scream someone to death. The game may have been easy for the sake of gameplay but I'd definitely say that what he achieved was difficult and impressive. I feel like a lot of people here want a witcher 3 experience from elder scrolls and don't even know it. Even the previous games had boring blank slates. Morrowind=a réincarnation of a dead hero. Oblivion=future champion prophesied to help the emperor save the world. Skyrim isn't much different and the lore behind dragonborns in general is quite extensive and interesting. And also ask yourself right now if you would like to play Skyrim with every character having the same backstory or would you rather come up with a unique one for everyone you play with the only limitation being you were wrongfully or rightfully imprisoned.

[@warlordz5779]

The protagonist should get a personality and backstory maker, where you get mutiple choice of a backstory based on your race or gender at least, kinda like what dragon age Origins does

[@veeya9188]

It’d be interesting to have your own personal quests in Skyrim since the beginning. Each quest would differ to the player’s background and race.

[@xxthexboxnoobxx4174]

Daggerfall had a system like that where it depended on what class you were + the answers you chose to background questions. It was pretty cool and I was surprised and pleased to see it implemented as it gives your characters class some merit and explanation.

[@KimJungGooner]

In the alternate start mod live another life, you choose a set of options to start as whatever you want. You can be a soldier in the Imperial Legion, and start out in Castle Dour with Imperial Gear, you can be a Dunmer starting in Raven Rock, etc.

[@littlemoth4956]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard for an open world role-playing. The whole POINT is that you make your own story.

[@warlordz5779]

@@littlemoth4956 yeah but starting story is good, a complete blank slit is stupid

[@amdrewy1015]

Ratio L Take+Bozo

[@chiquitadave3304]

His point is that the dragonborn in the canon universe has no backstory. Its true you can give him one, but it's a tactic that Bethesda's used more than once to be a bit more lazy with the games story.

[@davidhatcher7016]

@@chiquitadave3304 exactly

[@jacerobinson481]

Well that’s the point of it the Dragonborns backstory is unknown and doesn’t matter it’s what he does that matters but how and who does it doesn’t matter it’s just the role any hero plays you as the Dragonborn don’t need that backstory.

[@oofym353]

@@jacerobinson481 Exactly, if bethesda start giving main characters backstories it will be a fallout 4 situation where there is far less roleplay potential.

[@simone7268]

I like how people complain about Fallout 4 giving the Sole Survivor a back story and then complain about Skyrim not giving the Dovahkiin a back story. When Bethesda releases a new Fallout or TES it's always like this, now everyone hates Fallout 4,but when Fallout 5 will come out everyone will love Fallout 4 and hate Fallout 5, same goes for Skyrim.

[@zacharyvinson2338]

You’re just jealous cause you can’t carry around 6000 pounds of cheese

[@dr.calibrations7984]

"I'm going to play as a crazy person who is really, really dumb." Lol no, you're a lawyer.

[@o58-x3q]

2:12. Well, I always considered the first time you meet Miraak a defeat (the one and only moment I felt that) - this with the fact that his second fight with the Dragonborn is literally the last thing on the official timeline are the two main reasons why I think that he’s better than Alduin and Hakon as a villain. Still, if you don’t consider a defeat, you have to acknowledge that in that moment he humiliates the Last Dragonborn by reducing him powerless, and even though he couldn’t really kill him, his speech (and stealing the Dragon Souls) does a good job at putting pressure and lowering the Dragonborn’s confidence.

[@MizanQistina]

The Dragonborn is a Mary Sue i. escape from execution because a dragon saved him/her ii. soon afterward being trusted to bring the news to the local leader iii. then being trusted by the local leader to carry out missions iv. quickly learn an ancient magic without effort because having special blood and an incarnation of ancient god v. then kill a dragon, absorb it's power and being hailed as a hero and a Messiah by the local leader vi. can do everything, become the hero of all towns and the leader of all factions, loved by everyone and sung by all bards

[@ciphymasterofmedia9104]

I agree with people here that the dragonborn is really just meant to be blank so the player can substitute the character's backstory and emotions/attachments with their own. Take my character here: Dracon is an argonian orphan. He was born in the wilds with only his mother to protect him. She lives off the land and doesn't go around populated areas that often. Dracon grows up only learning from his mother but then she passes away as she was frail for an argonian and died of natural causes. Dracon is now left to fend for himself and to bury his mother. Because of the nature of the wilderness, he grew to trust his instincts and understands killing is a form of self defense. When he gathers the courage to actually go out and explore when he is older, he stumbles into a fight between stormcloaks and imperials and is taken prisoner. Dracon meets other people for the first time and the first thing he experiences is being beaten and tied down and hauled off. Right away he is scared for his life and traumatized. His natural reaction at that time is to kill his attackers but he can't. He is powerless to escape. Next thing he knows he is about to be killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Then alduin comes in interrupts the entire execution. Dracon is now faced with an even greater threat. Now his instinct is to run for his life. The poor argonian is traumatized for life. He runs and escapes and bumps into hadvar who guides him through helgen and to safety. Hadvar was the first to offer him some sympathy and is now helping him escape and survive. Remembering the conversation with ralof and the thief when they were being carted into helgen, Dracon gains understanding that the stormcloaks were to blame for the violence currently going on between the stormcloaks and imperials. He decides not to trust Ralof and goes with Hadvar instead When Dracon does make it out of helgen with hadvar, his first instinct is to explore his new surroundings for a bit and then head to riverwood. He is nervous in riverwood and doesn't know who to trust. His natural instinct is to kill anyone and anything that approaches him because he is still trying to recover from his traumatic experience. Only after some interaction with Hadvar's family does he begin to ease up. From there the main story progresses with Dracon heading to whiterun and slaying the dragon there. Although as soon as he finds out he is dragonborn, Dracon becomes obsessed with his new found power, believing that growing more powerful would protect him. The more powerful he grows, the more angry he gets and the more killing is solidified as a method of dealing with every problem. Dracon becomes entangled in some of the guilds and factions within Skyrim. With completing each one, he grows more and more darkened. The companions and allies he grows attached to die in front of him and he keeps vowing to avenge their deaths through more bloodshed and power. The war and bloodshed Dracon witnesses in skyrim are what drive him deeper and deeper into his violent nature. People assuring him that he is the dragonborn only makes him believe his path is the right one. Eventually he becomes so obsessed with power that he feels entitled to rulership of skyrim. He joins the imperial legion to kill ulfric and later finds out his future to kill the emperor of tamriel within the dark brotherhood. He learns to play multiple sides in the conflict within Skyrim and this knowledge drives him into becoming a cunning tyrannical overlord who joins factions only to gain influence in them and control them, in turn influencing events in Skyrim to his ideals. He even kills paarthurnax for the sake of obtaining a small army of blades to back him up. Dracon only ever stops to have a family with a dark elf he met in the college of winterhold. He is enticed by her gentle and kind nature as well as her clumsiness. He does learn somewhat of how to care for others but his lack of experience leads him to be overprotective of his family. He sees them as items that give some emotional support and stability on his life. Dracon only begins losing himself after becoming a vampire lord to gain immortality so that his power could last an eternity. When his family is out at risk and the questionable actions of the vampires challenge Dracon's ideals, only then does he start to break and regret his choices and actions and gives up on being seeking eternal power. That is the story of Dracon, my dragonborn character who was actually complex and his development in his own story was meaningful.

[@riliame]

About this whole "dull protagonist with no backstory or personality", I'd actually call it a strength of the Dragonborn's character. The reason I sit down and play Skyrim again and again, is because of the absolute freedom I have to create my own character. If I want a power-hungry sociopath, then I can, with my character now having a reason to, go and do all the Daedric quests and become the Champion of Mora. If I want an insecure, awkward hero who just can't handle the burden of saving the world, then I can make that too. My greatest criticism towards Skyrim has to be the lack of dialogue and options in quests. This limits the full role-playing experience, and I hope TES 6 includes more options and customisation options in dialogue. But I *do not* want them to make a fleshed out protagonist with some compelling backstory and personality. I am so thankful and glad that the actual Dragonborn in-game has no in-game character development, because that means I can make my own. I suppose it comes down to taste, but I often have long inner monologues as my character as I play the game, and put myself in their situation. I internally voice the thoughts of my character, and am glad that the game has no "this is what your protagonist thinks in this situation, and this is how s/he reacts. This is her/his character development, deal with it." The in-game Dragonborn is a blank paper that you yourself can fill with colours and shapes. It is also true that how the hero is in-game, is far from good enough for a fleshed out novel protagonist, but this isn't a novel, and though there's a lot of pressure nowadays on having "character development" and "fleshed out, deep personalities" I don't consider it a must for video games. Certainly not the ones where you're supposed to make your own protagonist.

[@ellisbarnett0292]

Riliame Blum but it’s not exactly tailor made to your taste though is it? At the end of the day you’re still the Dragonborn (that no one gives a shit about btw, you’ll still get treated like a nobody) you still have to play through the storyline of killing Alduin. Not to mention multiple in game details that imply the dragon born SHOULD BE (canonically) a Nord. So really, you’re not whoever you want to be, doing whatever you want, because in the bigger picture you’re still a set character doing a set action.

[@truerebel5467]

​@@ellisbarnett0292 Well what game do you know that have infinite amounts of paths for roleplayability? There aren't any. A game can present multiple paths to the player but there will never be a game with infinite paths, that's just absurd to even expect. The game was set to allow players to experience the prophecy of TLD while allowing players to freely roleplay their character however they choose. Canonically a Dragonborn is of all "mortal" races. Nords have absolutely nothing to do with dragonborn whatsoever hence the term "Dragon" born and not something like Nordborn? Even the opening scene tells you that your character was crossing the border from Cyrodiil even if you play a nord so the game really do not give off the sense that your character should be nord at all. Play as a nord and the game will still treat you as if you're a dunmer, like shit. I agree with you that bethesda did a poor job at immersing the players sense of reputation and npc's perception of your accomplishments. You would think that TLD would be highly respected due to how they wield powers of gods and being in the nordic patheon or the fact that he face down and cleared the underworld (Sovngarde) of the god of the apocalypse/armageddon Alduin. Thankfully the game is very modular and these problems are no longer an issues thanks to mod authors

[@ellisbarnett0292]

LogicxX PhantomXx well removing the shit storyline, or at least making it optional for DB role players, would be a great start. A vampire /assassin/ thief as the Dragonborn? Really? It makes no sense... neither does forcing you to go through every quest line at some point (aside from dark brotherhood) it’s difficult to role play when there’s so much forced on to you.

[@caporegime1259]

Agreed! To bad ES went online... What a lazy way to giveus an ES6. Greed!

[@thiccnasty9687]

Capo Regime ESO is definitely not a way to give us ES6 lol they are entirely different genres. ES6 can’t get here soon enough though, I just hope they don’t half ass it.

[@Nostroman_Praetor]

I was explaining to my little sister how many abilities I had access to as the dragonborn and she started freaking out about how stupidly overpowered I was

[@clockmaker9273]

i think, that i like the inigo mod so much, because it adds an acctually human character, and makes everything feel more alive. plus, he is awsome

[@georgehutter339]

True, i have him too along with Lucien and Kaidan they all together make it very entertaining

[@clockmaker9273]

@@georgehutter339 kaiden always make me uncomfortable for some reason i cant even tell

[@georgehutter339]

@@clockmaker9273 true but lucien in my game accused him of murdering rabbits so that was pretty worth it for me

[@clockmaker9273]

@@georgehutter339 i dont know lucien, but he sounds fun. ill check the mod out

[@georgehutter339]

@@clockmaker9273 he can be kinda whiney but he's got a decent quest line

[@minor7805]

I think not having a backstory is a good thing that's kinda like a staple for elder scrolls

[@joebloggs5318]

If I wanted the backstory to change the outcome of the game I'd play Mass Effect

[@gorillabbq4811]

He is the dragon born. Born of dragon blood, he walks between the realm of mortal, and immortal. I don't know about you, but you must be a man of protagonist progression, and possibly only that. Those of the dragon blood are always blessed with the status of legend, there is nothing else to it. Your character started as a legend the moment he was born. It is his right. Rumors speak that within the game, there is a throne belonging to Shor himself within Sovngarde. None but Shor can sit upon his throne. In Sovngarde, the last dragonborn sits upon the throne without effort if the chair is activated. Have fun with that.

[@mcihay246]

Skyrim is a game where the world revolves around the Dragonborn. They're fated to succeed and to be the best. It's like a self-insert fanfiction where the player is the delusional writer. Not saying its a huge problem, but such a thing breaks immersion just to make the player feel good. Compared to making the player character a completely blank slate to realistically immerse yourself onto the character.

[@mcihay246]

@Rosario Manorang Manik Of course. But that still doesn't change how the player is said Dragonborn. The one fated to defeat Alduin. Their prime purpose. Where greatness is already in the character, instead of discovering an individual's greatness through their own merits instead of what's been fated to be. Plus, the Dragonborn also happens to not only be the Listener, the person in Kodlak's dreams, but also someone that Brynjolf immediately finds a special liking to as a few examples. It's just too coincidental to be special to so many without the Dragon blood necessarily being involved.

[@mcihay246]

@Rosario Manorang Manik ... How does that change something that is still predetermined? Saying that the main quest is optional and can be ignored isn't a great argument, since that's similar to ignoring a mainline series but read the spin-offs. The main quest is there for a reason. To give purpose and a narrative to the Dragonborn. Sure it can be ignored, but the progression is always there. Dragonborn evades execution, discovers they're Dragonborn, re-establish The Blades, meets Paarthurnax, learn Dragonrend from Heroes gone, defeat Alduin in Sovngarde. Nothing else. You can't join Alduin. You can't ignore it knowing that the narrative still hasn't ended. It is a pre-determined narrative regardless. Honestly, the few quests that aren't like this is... -The disappointing extermination of the Dark Brotherhood by doing one (I repeat, one) quest with the Penitus Oculatus. -Having a choice in choosing to join the Dawnguards or Harkon's Coven of Volkihar. (Unfortunately, regardless of your choices, it always ends with Harkon being killed.) -Choosing between joining The Stormcloaks or The Imperials (Which is arguably the better questlines in the game due to the choices involved, except that the player cannot end the war in more diplomatic terms). -A majority of the Daedric Quests where you don't have to join them and instead choose not to. These quests have a modicum of choice for the player, and the usually having the questline end with the player's choices. Unfortunately, there is so little choice at all. Usually only point A to point B. Not Point A to point C, or D. Missed potential.

[@mcihay246]

@Rosario Manorang Manik That's actually a fair point. Apologies for the late reply. KZbin and it's unreliable notifications. Regarding many of your arguments, they do make a modicum of sense. I give you that. There is only so much that you can do indeed, not that it still isn't a shame regardless that the options are still limited. How speechcraft skills aren't as useful in the dialogue side of things, because there's so little options to solve problems other than to "receive quest, find item/kill boss, receive reward, repeat." But there is something I do find a little irritating however. This is in regards to how despite being the Dragonborn, you can be cast out from The Blades. No matter the speech level or your efforts in defeating Alduin, Paarthurnax is still a target to be killed. It's another "Receive Quest, Find Item/Kill Boss, Receive Reward, Repeat." But... I think I know what my problems are with the Dragonborn... The playable character is restrained by the limited mechanics of the game. So it's not the character's fault, but moreso what the developer has provided... even if New Vegas did such a better job with the Dialogue system than what Skyrim could ever accomplish. P.S. Glad that there's at least an agreement with the Daedric Quests.

[@mcihay246]

@Rosario Manorang Manik Cool. I'm glad we've come to some form of agreement. It's not the Dragonborn that's a bad character. But moreso the lack of available options that the Dragonborn can carry out based on the mechanics, and the writing of certain parts of the narrative that sucks. Which in turn limits and affects the character that the player has chosen to role play as. It is how it is, but these limitations can still affect the player experience regardless. Skyrim is no doubt still a great game, but one cannot deny that it isn't exactly perfect in the RP side of things.

[@LOKITYZ]

The Interesting NPCs mod does an awesome job adding additional flair to your Dragonborn. It gives you a lot of different dialogue options from humorous, clever, heroic, to straight out evil. By adding so many new NPCs to the game and additional options to interact with them, it also gives you so many opportunities to express your Dragonborn's personality better....

[@KarasiqueRiba]

This mod has one negative side - it contrasts with other Skyrim. When you play it a little bit - it become obvious how Bethesda failed much of Skyrim NPCs.

[@michaelbrown8195]

The elder scrolls has never been about the character, it has always been about the world surrounding the character. Whereas the Witcher is all about the journey of Geralt

[@thatguyjohnmarston3480]

Ikr

[@smileywater]

You’re comparing skyrim to the witcher, good job. In the witcher you have to follow a linear storyline with no customization and limited choices. Obviously he’s going to have a damn backstory and character development! In Skyrim, Bethesda is basically saying that you are the dragonborn and you may do whatever you want. You’re pretty much saying you’d rather play as a protagonist with an already written story, then be the protagonist and make your own story. Really stupid argument and pointless video. I think Bethesda knows what they’re doing with their games. I don’t want to play as John fucking Snow, i want to play as myself! Lol

[@ananousous]

"In the *witcher* you have to follow a linear storyline with no customization and limited choices" Unless you meant to say Skyrim there, your fanboy delusions run deep.

[@smileywater]

Anonymous Anonymous I have the witcher! Just because it’s open world, doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a linear story.

[@ananousous]

@@smileywater You might own the Witcher 3, but if you think its story is more linear than Skyrim's then you certainly haven't played it

[@tuantrananh4015]

and Geralt he a very great character but he doesn't have any character development though, he the same old badass geralt from the first 2 game

[@moseslalmuanpuia8988]

@@smileywater I haven't played witcher but I agree with you that this is an unnecessary thing to gripe on skyrim. Many silent protagonist rpg games fall for this problem and skyrim just happens to be one of them.

[@TheRetroPerspective]

I think you're right that this is an inherent problem with the Elder Scrolls and the way the player character is "made" but it's also a fault of Bethesda's lack of detailed writing now compared with how it was in Morrowind. Quests focus more on the setting and world-building than how things are effecting the characters within that world so although it's fun as hell to roleplay in the sandbox of Skyrim, this all leads to apathy from the player towards the characters rather than being truly involved in the story as you are with the Witcher.

[@aisaacnordrac3089]

If Skyrim gave any personality to the Dragonborn I would've enjoyed it way less.

[@georgehutter339]

True but i would have liked a wider array of dialogue, like add in some sass or something. Tell people to get their own stupid rock with writing, things like that

[@ellisbarnett0292]

Hannah Hutter yeah like actual depth, rather than the character themselves being the stupid rock instead

[@nancydawson3870]

Hannah Hutter like in the fallout games

[@aisaacnordrac3089]

@@georgehutter339 Agreed, I don't want the MC to be a soulless answering machine, but I also don't want all the dialogue options to be different levels of asshole like in Fallout 4, I wanna be a jerk with a heart of gold.

[@valshades6515]

"No emotional attachment to Paarthunaax" Amazing, every word you just said. Was weong

[@justiceabanecarpenter6675]

I think it would be really cool if you could make up your past as you go along. They actually did do this in the Dawngaurd dlc where Serena asks you about your family, and you could choose a number of different options. I feel it would be really good for characters to ask the Dragonborn more personal questions, such as “do you have a best friend?” and Dragonborn could reply “yes, but they died years ago.” Dialogue like this would not only give the player character backstory, but possibly even a bond between player and Dragonborn being one in the same. I feel like that would’ve been really cool.

[@yep1486]

there's a quest where a prisoner talks about his backstory while asking you about your past, like who's your family

[@Meowmento]

I strongly disagree with some of your arguments "the lack of Character development" Well, the thing is i am myself a very hardcore good character arc, story lover when i watch movies or play some games. But the reason why it didnt bothered me while playing Skyrim is because, you know its a game, where you experience it by yourself and not by a character written like the Witcher, where you role play as Geralt a well crafted character thrown into an awesome story. In Skyrim you never really knows the emotion of your protagonist, its just for you to decide. Its like you take the corpse of a soulless body and experience the world by yourself, it was kind of the same in Oblivion, was the Champion of Cyrodiil even sad by the death of Martin, is that why he becomes mad and join the dark brotherhood? You just experience the story, and since the hero is not something with a true form its just for you to decide what to feel. "The Dragonborn doesnt suffer any form of defeat" -well maybe yes but also no, its true that the last dragonborn gets to defeat all the antagonist but does it all leads to an happy ending? Even if you defeat Alduin as Paarthurnax mention that the end of the world would eventually happen and the protagonist is just delaying it, and the blades eventually wants you to kill Paarthurnax, one of the very few mentor characters in the ESO games, and then he says that famous quote "What is better to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort". You might got to think that Paarthurnax needs to pay for his past crimes since what you did in the past cannot be forgotten, but also he did help you and now as he said he has overcome his evil nature and that is not an easy thing to do for a creature with that kind of nature. Choices like this might not affect a lot the games but still makes you think of the responsibility of your actions. Same for the civil war quest, while not being as great as it was originally planed no matter who's side you choose stormcloak or imperials its never really a happy ending there is still some bitter sweet effects. If the stormcloaks win, Skyrim might get to be free, but it also gets weaker, Balgruuf get exiled, the silver-blood takes Markarth and the people might get more hostile againts foreigner. If the imperials win, Skyrim have more power but then again, the people will lose their traditions, the Black briar would gain even more power and so on. Also the Dragonborn DLC, you get to defeat Miraak but its not a very pleasant ending since Hermaeus Mora has used you and Miraak kind of warned that you might end up as him. Who knows what Mora can do to Solstheim after, or if the Dragonborn will end up seeking more and more knowledge and become something even worse than Miraak. There are more choices like that in Skyrim where you might have to sacrifice something to get one thing and makes you think what is the right choice, while i do agree that it could have been better and more impactful but it still nailed some parts where it makes you question and reflect the real world. I honestly think Skyrim is kind of underappreciated in some points and need more recognition, its the most philosophic Elders Scrolls game so far.

[@Meowmento]

and btw some people might think that the dragonborn is kind of typical prophechy heroes but i think that the Dovahkiin is a lot more complex then people think he is. there are lots of prophecies style hero in fantasy but the one in Skyrim is has a very well made lore behind it. Your the hero not because you are the son of someone important(yes i know you are called dragon"born") you accidently found something, or you know you have "good heart". You are gifted to use a power fluently called Dragon Language, where you can shout words and transform it to some sort of power. Honestly thats kind of unique and creative elements than just calling it "magic". It kind of give more colors to the hero to give him a unique power that we never saw in other games. How are you going to use these power are your choices

[@adge5182]

I totally agree with you

[@cherrywish_alt]

I always found it weird how (if we tried) we could become the leader to almost all the factions in the game, without even given a chance to decide. I never wanted to become an archmage or the leader of the Theives Guild, I just wanted to play through the missions and get trophies/achievements And when you think about being a literal Assassin and the Dragonborn, it really makes you wonder if you're the hero of Skyrim, or a murderer who kills innocent people for money

[@laras8911]

KitCat56 I wish they added a choicesoyou didn’t have be leader.

[@cherrywish_alt]

@@laras8911 yesss i would've much preferred just being apart of the factions

[@Snickersnek]

One big reason I find the Dragonborn lacklustre is... well.. he's not a very good user of the Voice. His 'signature' shout, the one we all know in Unrelenting Force is basically just a cone of stunning. Which, yes IS useful and a handy trick for an adventurer to know.. the Voice is capable of far, far, FAR more than that. This is the same Voice which broke sieges and shattered walls. It is a power on par with Akaviri sword-singing or Dwemer Tonal Architecture as it forces the world to heed to it's Words. And the Last Dragonborn... pushes Lydia off a cliff with it. The most powerful shouts available to the Last Dragonborn are arguably Clear Skies and Storm Call which are really the only ones which really showcase how powerful the Voice should be. The Greybeards and their oaths of silence were originally born because ancient Tongues could not speak at all without bringing destruction. This same Voice with which Tiber Septim in his capacity as Talos Stormcrown breathed and Cyrodiil changed from Jungled interior to forested lands. A man who none could look at without seeing a Dragon such was his power. By any comparison the Last Dragonborn is equal to a "pretty good" Tongue. Hardly a legend, hardly a master and hardly deserving of the praise that the Greybeards, Miraak and Paarthurnax lay on the Last Dragonborn. Everything we do in-game is just what Tongues can do anyway. Yet at every instance I'm told that I'm so wonderful and my Voice is strong. I'd have preferred it if throughout my adventures I'm told I'm a talented novice but it will take many years to gain my true power. It'd have the same effect of the endless "you're so strong dragonborn-senpai" but also make sense compared to all the in-game records. It would make struggles against Miraak and Alduin far more interesting as a novice bringing Voice, Magicka and weaponry to stand against true masters that cause destruction through simple voicelines, not even Shouting. I don't know, it just feels like I'm playing a Dragonborn larp or something, with everyone pretending I'm an amazing Dragonborn despite being an average Tongue... or an Archmage when I'm an average Mage- hey wait a minute..

[@c4onmylip]

Well, you have to consider the game mechanic aspect of it. TES has always been about "game first, put the lore in after" type franchise and it would be stupidly OP to be able to level all the cities in the game or to reshape the land or enslave the entire population of the game world just by slapping that shout key. Obviously they can't do that while in the game, but it's also hinted at that the dragon born hasn't learned the full scope of his power yet while playing him, so you may actually see in future games, lore added to show his power or the wild shit he can do with the Thu'um that they couldn't shiw us on screen. Take a look at the creation of solstiem, it's referenced in game that the entire island broke off because of the battle between Miraak and another dragon priest, then you fight Miraak and he mostly just shouts stupid shit like dragon aspect and whirlwind sprint.. I don't disagree with your take on the dialogue though, Skyrim does have shit dialogue compared to say, Morrowind. The Nerevarine was constantly questioned on even if he was the actual incarnate, whereas no one bats an eye if you say you're the dragonborn, that's what creates that illusion of a power fantasy when in reality, you're no more of a prophesied hero than the Nereverine was, actually less so. Like they had a cult and worshippers waiting on you to come back, in Skyrim hardly anyone knew the prophecy, they just knew about dragonborns from stories where they did fantastic things.

[@basiliimakedonas1109]

Bro, the hero of Kvatch had Jauffrey lose the amulet of kings to the Mythic dawn which severely fucked the whole empire for many CENTURIES and lead to the death of his friend and most important person at the time, Martin

[@yep1486]

*insert lore meme ost*

[@void9399]

1.- First mistake you make, thinking that the Dragonborn is superior to almost any other person. I remind you that the first time a dragon ends up dead it happens when the Dragonborn still does not know the thu'um, and when the Dragonborn is supported by the Whiterun guards. The Dragonborn is not stronger than a skillful battlemage or spellsword. The magic in the world of Elder Scrolls is extremely powerful, but in the game is reduced by issues of gameplay and balance. You just have to see the art that appears in Legends, a simple ice spell can kill an armed orc without any problem. 2.- No, in Skyrim there is not much of an evolution of the Dragonborn as a character because the game of Skyrim, and all the games of Bethesda, give a great weight to the player, for which, the development of the character is not shown. You are committing a false analogy fallacy when comparing a game like Skyrim, which has an "open narrative", with Kingdom Come: Deliverance, which has a "closed narrative". That means, that the second game has a character that has already established some development and history, and is shown through the game. The same goes for games like The Witcher, Final Fantasy IX, etc. In the Elder Scrolls games, this does not happen because the story and personality of the protagonist is usually left to the player. 3.- "The Dragonborn never suffers a defeat". Tremendous affirmation, and completely wrong. Do not you remember that right at the beginning of the game they will decapitate the Dragonborn? Do not you remember that the first time the Dragonborn meets Miraak, he ends up kneeling due to the power of the first Dragonborn? Even if you think about it symbolically, you suffer a "defeat" or "humiliation" from Alduin when he tells you that you do not even know the language of the dragons. Something that increases as a player because in reality, you do not know what Alduin is saying unless you look for it on the internet. It really makes you feel that you do not know the language and you are not worthy. 4.- And again, committing the fallacy of false analogy when comparing The Witcher, with a game like Skyrim. Hey, genius, The Witcher game handles a structured narrative, which seeks to show you the story of Geralt. In Skyrim they can not do the same because the Dragonborn does not have a "face", does not have a "past" nor really a "future". The player can choose a race among ten, and choose the sex of the character. The player can decide if the Dragonborn was an alchemist, or was a beggar, or simply an addict to the Skooma, for that reason is that you can not show an already structured narrative. That's also why The Witcher deals with videos to increase the drama of the narrative, but Bethesda has always avoided as much as possible to put videos, because they do not support their type of game. 5.- What happy ending exists in Skyrim? A province mired in war? A province full of dead due to war, vampires, and dragons? A dragonborn that will surely end up in the service of Hermaeus Mora? The story of the Dragonborn is not an "epic" story, it is the story of a subject who does not know that he has a special power, and when he finds out that he has it, he still has to go to learn, and after that, he is humiliated by Alduin for not knowing the language and calling himself a Dovah. He ends up getting the help of other heroes to kill Alduin, then ends up being humiliated again by Miraak until he gets help to defeat him, only to end up being the "slave" of a Daedra. Tremendous story, surely represents happiness. 6.- Of course, it's good that you recognize the difference in Skyrim and The Witcher games. So you should stop making the comparison between the two games, since both games have different objectives. 7.- The Dragonborn is also an "underdog". He does not know that he has a special power, and when he finds out, he still has to go and learn. Even for the end with Miraak the Dragonborn continues to learn new skills. And his powers, considering the lore, are not superior to those of an experienced battemage, or people with similar powers. In conclusion, Bethesda will never put a protagonist like The Witcher because the game of Elder Scrolls has another goal, which is to grant complete freedom to the player in different elements, and the sacrifice they make with that is just losing the advantages of a narrative closed, like the one presented in The Witcher, Final Fantasy IX, Dragon Age, etc.

[@gothic3theageofwar565]

This is a absolutely correct. Especially the “underdog” part. We are supposed to be a reincarnation of Tiber Septim, underdog with great and glorious destiny

[@gothic3theageofwar565]

Gabriel Pineda Fanfiction. Pure speculation.

[@void9399]

@@gothic3theageofwar565 Well no, that's in the lore. The figure of Talos did not even exist before Morrowind. That was the result of what happens at the end of Daggerfall.

[@gothic3theageofwar565]

Gabriel Pineda Every game in TES saga adds a piece of Lore. Much of Skyrim version of Talos contradicts what you say. I bet you’re one of those weirdos who say Talos is Breton 😂 Come on man how can you even think Talos is three people? That’s crazy garbage, it’s the false story of Tiber Septim. The man met Wulfhart and Zurin Arctus during his mortal life that’s true but they didn’t do a Dragonball fusion, that’s hilarious

[@brandon9172]

Another thing is his comparisons to the previous elder scrolls protagonists. We have lore and perspectives on them that have been shown outside of their original games.

[@jalenprice23]

This vid made me realize that the Skyrim protagonist and the Dark Souls protagonist are exact opposites

[@frankshcleuterbomb2538]

Underrated comment

[@statelessmoth]

Been watching a lot of your videos lately (just subbed actually, keep it up) but I'm not a huge fan of this one. It seems like you've fundamentally misunderstood the point of the Dragonborn. They are intentionally left as such a blank slate because you, the player, are supposed to give them their personality, development, and backstory. The DB only has as much depth as you're willing to give them, so if you can't be bothered to do something like, write a backstory, or develop them as a character throughout the game, then you're gonna have a shallow experience. But, if you're willing to focus on roleplay, write a real, genuine backstory, and build them as a character, then you will end up with one of the best roleplaying experiences available, because although the Dragonborn can be a very shallow character if you're lazy, they can also be one of the most in-depth and interesting characters ever, provided you're willing to make it happen. Giving the elder scrolls a set character (which even you said wouldn't be a great idea), or forcing them to act certain ways, would be a HUGE blow to the RP aspect, just for the sake of people who can't be bothered to put even a speck of effort into making a real character. Ultimately, all of the problems you have with the DB, can be fixed by writing a backstory, focusing on RP over power-gaming, and putting in a little effort.

[@griseo3300]

But the problem is, DB is not a blank slate. You're essentially told that you're the Dragonborn; the one who shall defeat Alduin. Sure, whether or not you do it is up to you, but the game doesn't stop if you don't. I would rather see an ending where if you didn't kill Alduin, he fulfills his role as the World Eater and destroys everything on Nirn. That would make the role of being the Dragonborn more.. weighty? If not, then strip out the Dragonborn narrative entirely. If you want to be a completely blank slate, you cannot be prophesied to kill Alduin. Youwalked into Sovengard, not because you were special, but because you had to in order to save humanity. You didn't do it because you were destined to, you did it because it was the right thing to do.

[@ananousous]

@@griseo3300 uSe YOuR IMaGinATion

[@matthewbibby8921]

@@griseo3300 ... What if your character says "fuck that noise" immediately after walking out of helgan and runs off to become a thief, like they always have been. Maybe you've committed some horrible atrocity in your past, and this is your way of making up for it. Fuck it, maybe you're a goddam cat man called S'oggy Balls, the brother of J'zargo, who could never master the expert level destruction spells so instead learned "catrate", the art of punching the shit out of things. (... That's a reference, sorry for confusing the crap out of you, but it IS part of someone's series on youtube, hence the endless creativity allowed by skyrim's lack of character) You can be a Werewolf who can't control themselves during transformations, an evil wizard, assassin, or a kind hearted preist, or maybe a champion of meridian with a quest to stomp out all the undead in Skyrim, dragons just aren't your problem. Yes, Skyrim does railroad you a little bit, but I've never had a problem breaking off of the railroads, especially when there's plenty of chances to do so, such as when you leave Riverwood or Helgan if your character is so inclined. I've done so many playthroughs where I haven't even got to the first dragon fight, a bunch more where I roleplay as a side character with the intention of another of my character's being the Dragonborn, I've had one Dragonborn who did the questline for power (who's stronger than the dude who killed the world eater) and only one or two who genuinely committed themselves to being the Dragonborn of prophecy, of which I still had fun with via a wood elf descended from my ESO player, who recently had their family name torn down by the new Aldmeri Dominion who don't really care for equality and has to seek her own destiny, and a Nord who started off as a simple Hunter but got roped into all this and only truly accepts their responsibility's near the end. And are you saying that you want to force the character to be the Dragonborn, because if they don't then the game ends? That's bullshit, I wanna be a thief this time, he's not going after dragons, and I don't want the game to end because I didn't do the main quest for the sake of my own roleplaying experience. With that being said, I see your points, but what you're saying isn't even what was said in the video, which details how the Dragonborn doesn't have a character ark... No shit they don't, because that's up to YOU to do. It's a roleplaying game, it'd be a pretty weak one if they did all that for you. (*cough* Fallout 4 *cough*) For the record I agree that being a prophecised hero can be a bit weird in roleplaying games, but as long as you can break out before being told you're the hero of prophecy, it's alright... At the end of the day ANY game with dire stakes is gonna be weird if you avoid a quest that should have consequences by now, and I do agree that it's be far better to have more alternative endings in Skyrim to quests, that IS a big weakness of the game (or: let me join the silver hand and make them an actual faction, why can't I join the Thalmor, and yes, letting alduin do his thing and seeing the aftermath, maybe in exchange for power or something would be a nice option, but at the same time... What then? Does the game end? What if you want to carry on to the other questlines? Itd be a bit difficult to remake all of Skyrim under a new dragon cult... At the end of the day there's ups and downs to both, I think Skyrim could do with a bit more leeway in how you can effect the outcome of quests, but only to an extent, as in, a couple missed opportunities I see, but as long as you can skip the main quest, it's fine for me, especially since other games don't make it so dam easy to insert these headcanons into the game)

[@c4onmylip]

@@griseo3300 that's not true at all, take a look at any of the other games, they're all blank slates too (no back story at all) and are the prophesied heroes of their own. You dont have to do the main quest and never find out about the prophecy at all or you can fully embrace it and go full stride into battle, it's possible because you're the one in control and you can do what you want with the blank slate you have.

[@rileymcdonald8110]

They could always make the next elder scrolls main character a person found at a shipwreck and can't remember his/her past that might be cool

[@elijahjohnson1952]

If you skip tge main quest you are technically not the Dragonborn.

[@carlgrau5910]

Dude parathanx really?? After the first meeting him I loved him! He is the only chara in the whole game that truly has brain and heart. My goodnesss ... Good vid

[@ellisbarnett0292]

Carl Grau and then you’re ordered to kill him by a low ranking blades member who is sworn to serve the Dragonborn but nevertheless, you end up serving her

[@mapleflag6518]

Then he brings up paarthurnax in his “why Delphine is an idiot” video.

[@greycrimson3228]

i would be really unsure about the next Elder Scrolls game if it didn't have character customization but it would be interesting if the dialogue options became more wise and smart trough what the character who is a complete extension of ourselves, grows. It would be like we grow as the player, not as a character of that game and slowly getting immersed into that world trough that growth, this could be a good idea and not throw out the window of the feel of the last game

[@ellisbarnett0292]

Grey Crimson or, heaven forbid me from asking too much, if choices actually mattered and had deeper consequences than a single line of dialogue from generic npc #2586

[@MyHellaKitty]

Millennial talk! Witcher is like getting your Lego's per-assembled for you. Skyrim is like getting the huge Pirate ship set, that you have to assemble your self. You can either stick to the instruction guide or do your own thing as you go. Another example is Skyrim is like a coloring book ready for you to fill in. Witcher is a storybook and you're just stepping into the role. Some people just like to fill in the blanks themselves. This allows the Dragonborn character to be a unique experience for different players. It's not everyone's cup of tea and I am fine with that. Skyrim is doing something right to keep players coming back for nearly a decade. The Dragonborn doesn't suck. People comparing Witcher to Dragonborn and suggesting to change the formula that others enjoy suck.

[@Kassadin8088]

Miss Katness this is exactly how I feel about the whole Witcher vs Skyrim thing. I Very much agree. I don’t want Elderscrolls to lose what drew me to it in the first place.

[@LuceLaska]

I think you're right and that a Fable style of play would help improve the character as would making choices matter

[@Joshcoshbagosh]

this is a weird video. The Witcher 3 and Skyrim are COMPLETELY different styles of games. The "Dragonborn" isn't a specifically crafted pre set character with a name and some predefined personality like Geralt. The Dragonborn is a blank slate. He isn't Geralt. He isn't Commander Shepard. He isn't the dude from Kingdom Come. He is "you". He is as interesting as YOU make him. This is how it works in all the TES games

[@jonhillman871]

i'm divided on this issue. a more fleshed out, less epic, vulnerable character can make for a better scripted story but a bland, ambiguous character leaves it up to you to fill in the blanks with your own ideas and preferences. and you can create your own unique experiences and challenges for yourself based on your vision for your dragonborn. i don't think elder scrolls 6 needs to be more like the witcher or kcd (excellent games!). we've all come to expect a lot more player agency and flexibility in elder scrolls. the games have similar nomenclature and style but they really provide different game experiences.

[@DrCooch]

An initially ambiguous Character should be presented with situations by which to properly flesh out their Character at the players discretion. A more Diverse set of Dialogue options and the ability to Impact a Questline Significantly as a consequence of those choices is a well designed Opportunity for a player to flesh out their own character. Skyrim doesn't do any of this however and pushes Ambiguity to the max. The only Player Agency given is in the leveling and playstyle department and for me that isn't sufficient for a game that encourages Player Agency. Either way Blandness or Scripted aren't the only options

[@chiquitadave3304]

You can be ambiguous with a character, but still give them a backstory. Even minorly, I know everyone points to it, but it fits. Fallout New Vegas had an ambiguous start, the most you knew was that you were carrying a package and you got shot. But as you progress from DLC to DLC you see the courier develop in a way that shows they have character. None of the freedom to develop your character is taken away from you. You can still be a good, evil or neutral character knowing the couriers past. I can see where your coming from, I just disagree that it has to be one or the other.

[@nocthemedic2951]

@@chiquitadave3304 yeah he had a past, but he was basically mine wiped and turned into a completely different person after getting shot in the head so what's your point.

[@chiquitadave3304]

@@nocthemedic2951 Amnesia or memory loss is never mentioned in game. My point was that you dont have to choose an ambiguous character for player freedom, or a structured character for a better story. You can have a small backstory and make it something that can be taken in multiple differing ways, that way you can develop the character and have them fit in the world instead of just appearing once you turned the game on or being a player controlled npc.

[@nocthemedic2951]

@@chiquitadave3304 the doctor in the very beginning of the game tells you that the gunshot mess with your head. From the beginning of the game on Words the past iteration of The Courier doesn't matter because your version of The Courier is then placed in. It's the same with the Dragonborn. It doesn't matter who he was before you were introduced because you are the Dragonborn you are the Dragonborn character just because you're not creative enough to make your own back story doesn't mean it's a problem with the game

[@Empathetik]

"There is no point at which the Dragonborn majorly fails" Me: "No! Sven! If only he'd been a metre to the right if my Werewolf claws..."

[@_Cerb_]

Seems like most people forget that you can "interact" with your own backstory in game in the dialogue with Serana when you are searching for her mother in Volkihar castle. She asks how was Dragonborn's parents like. She is literally the only NPC in the game beside Hadvar (idk does that count?) that actually ask personal question about the Dragonborn.

[@themrlace]

Everyone arguing that "YOU make the dragonborn" and "the character is what you make it", but in the end there's no real change inside the game world no matter what actions I take. So what exactly is the point of my character, if it will always be the same inside the game? If all the game is me just IMAGINING what I am while I'm really not, why even play the game? Just go daydream or something.

[@aaron75fy]

so the Stormcloaks don't occupy Solitude if you back them in the war? the status of the Dark Brotherhood doesn't change? I see those as real changes, if you don't like the game why are you playing it? you do you and let me do me, no one is fucking forcing you to agree

[@themrlace]

​@@aaron75fy This has almost zero effect tho. As you said, yes they start occupying Solitude. And then? Nothing else. People aren't suddenly respecting you for defeating the Imperials, for example. And it's not as if I don't like the game, but I'm still allowed to criticize it.

[@cstains5543]

What Bethesda needs is to have multiple potential endings to major quests and side quests, not just straight forward you win or you replay a save until you win endings. That and have some events ongoing as you play regardless of whether you involve yourself or not. Like a Second Great War occurring in ES6 for instance even if you never join a major warring faction with the potential for a winner to emerge while you are on the side lines if enough time passes in the game. A lot of this could be achieved with simple decisions, like a side quest where you can spare a traitorous city guard officer at the end of a side quest who comes from a powerful family where you receive some immediate benefit from the family, but if you do he later comes back to kill some NPC most players will like and whose death most people will see as your fault. But if you do kill the officer his family will send several Dark Brotherhood assassins after you.

[@HansRulezGl]

They did a good job with Serana and the little talks one could have with her. You asked about her family, she asked about yours. If more characters were to humanize the LDB like this it wouldn't be such a bland ecporience.

[@kubawojtylak657]

This👆

[@christianvondruska8244]

It's ironic, really. Bethesda's choice to make the player character the most important person in the universe, the literal "chosen one", actually lead to the dragonborn being the least important person in the universe. The reason for this (in my opinion at least) is because the player character will always be the dragonborn, no matter what. If the player joins the thieves guild, they're just the dragon born, but a thief. If the player character is the profisied chosen one, they're no one. If the player character was no one special, they'd be able to truly blend into the world, have struggles, and most importantly, they'd actually have choices.

[@kaitlynsgonecrazy3366]

Dragon age series allows you to see a back story and have a full customized character. I believe the elder scrolls needs to implement something like they have.

[@sparklepawz1185]

The nerevarine starts as a literal nobody that walks like a snail, has to take the bus, and fails his spells 70% of the time. By the end he's literally a god that can jump across the world, fly, and teleport. The hero of Kvatch is just average person living in the empire, where one imperial guard can mean the death of them if they dare pick up a carrot from the floor. It's all about Martin. Everything revolves around him. Find him, protect him, help him, and then watch as he saves the world. The Dragonborn is the literal prophetic, divine blessed, nordic demigod of myth and legend that can use magic so powerful it can tear continents apart yet guards taunt you, threaten you, and in order to hold a peace council you have to ask for help from the greybeards while also not being able to pretty much end the civil war all together by saying "I'm a demigod that the nords of skyrim all admire. Why don't I become the high king and anyone who disagrees with me can challenge me to that duel Ulfric is so obsessed over." I mean seriously who will stop you? you can solo armies with your shouts and the patriotic nords won't really stand against a mythical figure of nord legends. But I really like skyrim and it's fun just shouting Nazeem to the cloud district since he seems so fond of going there.

[@DjangoFatt]

Yeah I never liked the Dragonborn prophecy, the title felt so hollow

[@davidhatcher7016]

:(

[@davidspearim5552]

I do like the dragon born but I feel like the story of Skyrim was not completed and I'm pretty sure that there were two people who hacked into Skyrim and found missing beta and storylines and plots and other stuff and I'm pretty sure that Bethesda actually said that it's not completed

[@bouncycow3010]

I see the Dragonborn as a projection of me into Skyrim, vs Gerald, which is more like an NPC which I can help nudge in the right direction, and watch develop. The dragonborns lack of personality really makes Skyrim special for me, and helps me to immerse myself into the world, even though he may be a shallow character on the surface.

[@Simtar123]

I think good writing for npc is more important for character development. Delphine is hard to get invested in because she rarely show any other sides than "Stern female quest giver" What makes Delphine happy? What makes Delphine sad? What flaws does she have? What trauma has she gone through? And how does she show all of this to the player? That is where good story telling is to me ☺️

[@JohnZ117]

Getting back to being a Blade again. The slaughter of the Blades and her self-imposed exile. Bigotry, "He's a dragon, all dragons are evil, go kill Parthuunax." See answer 2. Through dialogue, exploration of her home, and learning more of the recent history of the Blades through various means in the province. And also she doesn't, because reluctance to divulge information about herself is a part of her character.

[@joebloggs5318]

It would have been more interesting if we found Esbern dying in the sewers and he tells us when to find Alduin's Wall then Delphine dies in the process of getting there. To be honest after we learn about Dragonrend both of them are kind of useless and serve no purpose for the rest of the story. Allies dying left and right kind of gives more emotional impact, and could address the criticism raised in the video of Dragonborn never loses. Besides...I thought both of them were kind of irritating!

[@lennchen5432]

As I see it, noone can realy compare TSC-Skyrim with The Witcher Series, because the secondary is related to an already existing story with fleshed out characters even before the first games came out. Meanwhile TSC-Skyrim merely has a character that is basicaly the player themself - it's a self isnert just like in an mmo. A blank canvas to experience the lore wich you can find merely in books or even by some chit-chatting with npcs, adventure, venture and horting gold. It is lika medicore mmo in a rather lonely world with fantasy aspects. And yet I loved playing Skyrim many times with different characters. The game was more like experiencing Skyrim and Solstheim as a playground and nothing else. Surely the mainstory was about saving the world but in the end it's more linear, because the game is meant for the player to learn more about the background lore of it's universe. Both games work with different formulas. I have a personal prefference towards the Witcher 3 too and it got me interessted to buy at least one of the books but that doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy venturing through Skyrim, Solstheim and the other region from Oblivion. As I personaly see it you can't compare these two. Why? Because they are so different in the core of the story-telling.

[@grantdelosangeles5357]

A guy playing as the dragonborn dissing the dragonborn... So technically He's Dissing himself

[@Vexis_plays_games]

"There is no real attachment to those characters" Uh excuse me. I cried when I killed Paarthurnax because I didn't know how to get the quest line out. I didn't want to kill him and now the Grey bears hate me. I actually started an entire new save because I was so upset with myself. Don't you DARE say there isn't emotional attachment to him!

[@Freethinker_94]

It's all just opinion

[@thegreatfugginpotato3922]

I wish Bethesda would let you make a kinda back story, like pick from a few prompts that make it up. Let's say they did that for Skyrim. You pick from a few prompts and the outcome is that you had a dream about dragons and in that dream you were told to go to the graybeards. So you decide to go through with it and see if the dream was a prophetic or not, but you get captured by the imperials and taken to helgen. There for seeing a real dragon. And realizing ok something's up. Then you go on to find out your a dragon born destined to save Skyrim. Or another possibility from picking could be that you and your family are a bunch of poor farmers on the other side of the border, and you decided enough poverty I'm gonna go out and be an adventurer. This one could work out well because 1 your dressed in rags at the beginning of the game and have no gold. 2. You would have to struggle a bit more in battles til you start leveling up because again your poor and probably not well taken care of. I think choosing a back story would work out for elder scroll 6 because depending on what you get, you could have a certain amount of skill, gold, or whatever, but let's say your rich brat, then you'd have an even harder time in battle because you were pampered and lazy, but if you were again a poor farm kid, you might have an upper hand in some things like strength and how much you can carry as well as stamina.

[@badendhappy2903]

The power that gives the Dragonborn his power is not his intrinsic ability of the Thu'um, but rather each time he dies, he wakes up next to the bed where he last slept and gets to try again.

[@yep1486]

his identity as a player's avatar console commands choosen 1 role cheat mods mods in general

[@gothic3theageofwar565]

I disagree completely. It’s absolutely cool to play as a hero like Tiber Septim was. In Skyrim we are supposed to be a reincarnation of Talos and follow his path towards the Ruby Throne. If we see it this way the Dragonborn is the BEST protagonist. For people who want character development and an end to Skyrim. Install Rigmor of Cyrodiil mod. Here you have the full masterpiece of Skyrim story. The true epilogue of the Dragonborn story.

[@geraltgrey-mane695]

Thats is one of the biggest problem i have with babyborn :) they never realy do anything with him. Etc become high king of Skyrim etc or become emperor of the empire with his newly formed Blades. No they didnt want that they wanted the player character gone from the world like the rest of the player character from the other games

[@meliagant1650]

The difference between the dragonborn and other main characters is you. You are the dragonborn. You are not guiding a premade character through his story. You yourself are intended to feel like you are the dragonborn.

[@chiquitadave3304]

I agree with the dragon born being a boring character. He was a random Joe Shmoe you picked up after he got busted trying to do whatever he was doing. Then he was given ultimate power in the form of shouting, then the dawn guard or lord harkons court at his side as he assaulted miraak the first and most powerful dragon born. He never lost, never faltered and never had a motivation besides what every other heros motive is, save the world because every other hero does that. In the dragonborn dlcs we got some development in the sense he had to basically fight himself, kinda, it was a battle of supremecy. That had to be won with the sacrifice of a skaal chieftain and subservience to a daedric lord. But that's where it ended, no more after that. He was the single most powerful thing on the planet. With the Nerevarine as you said he was an underdog. Everything was pitted against him and he had to build himself up to be the hero to save morrowind. Overcoming huge obstacles and killing a large amount of enemies. Fighting through Dwarven Ruin after dwarven ruin, contracting the plague and having to find a cure, becoming immortal in the process. Having to ally up with the very people that hate you: the tribunal. Which btw you have to kill in later Dlcs. Then after killing Dagoth Ur, has to participate in Hircines trials and comes out on top after facing the strongest beings on the planet. After that he sails to Akavir and its left up to us to decide what happens to him afterward. Then with the hero of Kvatch, he was a prisoner in the imperial city placed there by the gods with absolutley nothing to save the entire planet. The difference between skyrims and oblivions plot is you fail a couple of times, you come to the edge of (no pun intended) oblivion and back and barely survive, and even surviving came with a sacrifice of the emperor. Leaving Cyrodil in more turmoil and still so much work to do. Then as if Mehrunes Dagon wasnt a big enough threat an ancient ayleid king comes back to life to kill the Aedra (gods) and the Hero of Kvatch has to go on a crusade to stop him. In which he dies, but is resurrected by the gods as thanks. Then as if his journey was over he hears about a portal open in the waters near Leyawin. Goes to investigate and comes upon a whole new world with various people and places to go and see. Again he has to go through more obstacles to even see the ruler of the realm, sheogorath. Then after he meets him has to undo some of what he did, stop something that is guaranteed to happen, keep the realm of chaos in chaos and stop the forces of order. Then at the end of it all you fail to stop it, and have to go toe to toe with a Daedric Lord, a God. Then when the dust settles you are the new Sheogorath, the new mad God. Ruling over a realm as demented as you now are. The best part of it all is the fact that Morrowind and Oblivion are 7 years apart and you can still feel the events of Morrowind shake the world of Oblivion as people are still talking about it. That's how cool those characters and games are. I'm bound to have gotten something wrong in this huge rant, so please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. But Oblivion and Morrowind were way better games and had way better stories than Skyrim.

[@philburtthecommunistlizard5975]

...The point of not giving protagonists a backstory is so you can make your own and roleplay. I much prefer that to playing a pre-made character.

[@Schemingzy]

Although you aren't just the dragonborn. The thing I love about this game is that you can create your own personality and add to the story :) For example, wanna be An evil Dragonborn? Make youself an assassin! Want to be a mage? Join the college! By doing this stuff you get to add on to the dragonborn's story, and your personality can be devoloped by the choices the dragonborn makes . Kill Parthurnaux or don't . Kill and eat that one guy, or don't . Help the rieklings or the nords Ect :) Edit: btw isn't it kinda funny how hardly any of the npc's actually acknowledge you as dragonborn lol. Yeah you slay Alduin, so what? Nazeem will still be an asshole towards you XD

[@Bloodschosen2457]

I play Skyrim because sometimes I don't want a developed story, I just want to yell at someone so hard they go flying off a mountain

[@humannomore7759]

Problem is, you are the Dragonborn from what I understand, there literally is no character, just you. So yeah, it'd be weird if the protagonist had emotional growth when you're roleplaying them to be a certain way if you get what I mean

[@cmp6291]

This is why I like the Nerevarine, if one fails, Azura can always get another one as seen by the several failed Nerevarines in the Cavern of the Incarnate. The way you became the full fledged Nerevarine was through ticking off a "chosen one" checklist. It felt like anyone else could have done it.

[@MegaAgamon]

That my friend is because the Dragonborn is the "silent protagonist" meaning that he is whatever the player intends him to be, it is a roleplay game with 0 backstory and 0 characteristics. You want to play a murder hobo you can an honorable hero, you can, a morally ambiguous character, you can. Because unlike witcher you don't play Geralt's story. You play YOUR DRAGONBORN'S STORY the dragonborn you choose to create. also do not say that we don't care about PAARTHUNAX! WE DO! DRAGON-SENSEI MUST BE PROTECTED F*CK THE BLADES XD

[@andreluizrsim]

Skyrim is rich of decisions for to make, the problem is the lack o reputation. When you get to a village for the fist time, people show their prejudices to Geralt, but the you help the people, more they start to behave different, for good or bad. If we helped Jars loyal to the empire and we start to be hated by the cities aligned to the Stormclocks, more we could filled tension about this quest. If more we helped Deadras more priests starts to hate the Dragonborn. That's the way to make TES6 a absolute success.

[@CDPW]

The dragonborns godlike abilities is what made skyrim immersive for me.

[@pwojo9776]

After replaying Skyrim recently, I've noticed something: The Dragonborn is both a nobody that's everyone else's errand-boy and also the typical over-powered player-character. I think part of it is because you the player have very little agency, and whenever you do it's usually because someone else told you to do one or the other. Like, the second you decide to go to warn Whiterun of the dragon attacks, you're just set on a path of people telling you what to do. You don't even know you're the Dragonborn at this point. You're a nobody with probably shit armor you either robbed off a bandit or looted from an ancient tomb. You're an ex-con, a veritable fugitive, by all odds you should be dead. You didn't come here to Skyrim to do any of this, and we don't even know why we're here. Sure, you can roleplay a reason as to why you are here, but even with no idea of what the rest of the world is like (like say Skyrim is your first Elder Scrolls game, for a lot of people it probably was, you have no context for anything and suddenly you're facing immanent death), you are here by purely chance. You're just like "okay, I guess I'll help, let me see what I can do", and suddenly you're just drinking dragons like capri-suns, being told where to go next by whatever Nord-beard McDrunk-nuts tells you to after like a pretty good chance he calls you a slur in the process. And you don't even get to say no to any of this. This isn't the typical hero's journey, which is supposed to have a refusal of the call to action, you just don't get to refuse at all, and everything else just happens like you're completely fine with all of this.

[@SwordSkill2]

This video should be renamed: Why the Dragornborn character development sucks, but of course it would have to be clickbaity to get views.

[@AvartiPlaysGames]

Exactly.

[@colinmunro3158]

Another way to lessen the negative impacts of a fully customizable protagonist is to have the player pick from a list of backstories during character creation. Furthermore, backstories could be kept believable by having prerequisites like playing a specific race or by conferring bonuses like a plus to stats or giving starting equipment. The main advantage of choosing a backstory during character creation is that the game world can treat protagonists with different backstories differently from one another. For example, a particular character may treat the protagonist differently, or it may be made easier or harder to join certain guilds. In implementing this feature into an Elder Scrolls game it’s important that it doesn’t bar the player from anything, but rather make certain things easier or harder in a believable way.

[@drew230]

This is y we heavily mod our games

[@caporegime1259]

Lol and you call yourself a gamer lol

[@drew230]

@@caporegime1259 when you've run through the normal game and shit so many times what more is there to do if not create a larger expansion?

[@Sylentmana]

I guess becoming a slave to tentacle god of knowledge doesn't count as a defeat then. Hermaeus Mora plays you like a fiddle and claims you as his slave by the end of the Dragonborn DLC and that isn't a defeat or failure to you?

[@matthewbibby8921]

"The Dragonborn never suffers defeat" Mercer Frey: Lol Ancano: Lol Miraak: Lol Commander Maro: Lol The silver hand: Lol Thonar Silver Blood: Lol (Yes I know all of these characters get beaten in the end but... All of their quest lines feature a low point in the story where something bad happens that the character is unable to prevent, hence they are beaten before rising to the challenge and coming out on top in the end, it's not often but it is in the majority of the big faction quest lines. Unless you want the player to... Not be able to finish quests because they get beaten... Um... Alright) I'm rather confused by this whole video though, you act as thought the Dragonborn is a defined character within a story, whereas... It's a blank slate for the player to do what they want. Narratively, the Dragonborn... CAN fail, by falling down a dark path and straying from being a hero, if the player chooses to roleplay that way. It's a roleplay game, the character can suffer defeat whenever the player chooses to make it so, or maybe the backstory that the player makes includes a major defeat, so... What's the point here? With that being said, yes, the character being a special chosen one is a bit meh, I do like the idea of being a character who isn't some fated superhero, but in Skyrim... Its not really the case. You're on par with dragons, the main antagonists, but you aren't invincible, as proven by the fact that... You can die to bandits, hell you aren't even the only one who can shout, all you can really do is learn shouts easier and absorb dragon souls, which is indeed very useful and powerful, but you still kinda have to earn it if you're talking about power scaling development. Overall I gotta disagree with this video, even though I do like having heroes who aren't special or the chosen one of some prophecy (as apparent by the fact that I often don't even do the main quest so I can live out my days as a simple mortal) I don't see how the Dragonborn can even be a bad protagonist when whether that's the case or not is entirely up to the player. It's like saying "fighters in DnD are bad characters", it... It doesn't work, because that differ's based on the character or whoever's playing them. The Witcher 3 by comparison is not Skyrim, it IS a roleplaying game but it has a defined character, you can't make up a backstory or create and project your own character because Geralt is already his own, this is a completely unfair comparison. For example, I've had a dwemer fanatic traveling around with all the dwemer artifacts, a dwemer sphere companion, with a big interest in the lore and history of them, being an absolute tank in the process, her sister by comparison, ANOTHER one of my character's, is a cheerful pickpocket with a complete inability to leave anything shiny alone. I've put a cursed ring of hiricine on a Werewolf character before to roleplay them as a Werewolf with no control over transformations, I've had a self indulgent wizard hell bent on gaining all the power possible, a worshipper of meridian on a quest to destroy every undead creature in tamriel, and I've even had a wood elf who descended from my ESO character but got kicked out of Valenwood when the new Dominion invaded and tore her legacy down, forcing her to find a new destiny for herself. In the Witcher, you can't do this, Geralt is Geralt, and will always be Geralt, with his own set backstory, and even to an extent, a personality, he can't be anything else. This is great for crafting a character who can grow and change, but leaves little room for roleplaying... Not to say you can't roleplay at all, but... You're creativeness is heavily limited to what's been preset. The Dragonborn meanwhile, is indeed objectively worse, cause they aren't a character, they're a template for you to roleplay ontop of. And I've played Fallout 4, when they DID give you a backstory, and I hated it, because I couldn't roleplay what I was beforehand. This isn't objective nor lazy, this is just your personal taste in games being different to others. I personally would've had a much worse time with Skyrim if the character was already defined, because I fell in love with the game for it's roleplaying. (Though I'll even admit that wasn't perfect either, much better examples of it being done in games like FONV where there was a greater variety in outcomes during actual quests, but I digress...) On top of that though, if you're arguing that a prophecised hero can't be a good character... Gonna also have to disagree. Darth Vader was a child of prophecy meant to bring balance to the force, and while the execution was a bit shaky in the prequels, nobody is gonna deny that Darth Vader is a bad character when he ended up fulfilling the prophecy by destroying the emperor. In terms of power, Saitama from One Punch man is a GREAT character despite almost no fights last beyond one of his punches being thrown, and he's never struggled physically during any of the major fights. Still a great character thoufh. Knowing the character is gonna do something, or even giving them a massive power boost doesn't mean anything if you're smart about how you go about it.

[@goldedrag111]

Finally.

[@SkyQueenDragon]

*Spoiler Warning for Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion* bellow So I realize this video is old and nobody will likely see this comment but I do wish to make one comment about the whole "failing" thing. If you look at the story in Oblivion and how it ended ... you will realize that technically the Hero of Kvach did fail in the main storyline. His primary objective was to protect Martin and make him Emperor so he could light the Dragonsfires, all before Mehrunes Dagon shows up. However, that did not happen. Dagon shows up, the barriers that protect Nirn from Oblivion is gone, and Martin ends up sacrificing himself so that he can become the Avatar for Akatosh to clean up the mess. So in the end, Martin is dead ... the barrier is now gone ... and a god had to clean up after the Hero of Kvatch failed to get Martin there in time. Of course, the protagonist still gets credited for what happened but ... honestly, it's not well deserved, and I remember when I first played through Oblivion I felt a sense of emptiness when they all rewarded me. Like ... nobody mentioned how Martin was now gone and that it was his sacrifice that actual saved everyone.

[@nucleargypsy9470]

Baldur's Gate and dragon age origins did pretty well with character development for a fully customizable character. Skyrim has so much stuff to do I figured that and being very easy to play are it's main draws...and of course mods which really aren't even by the team that made the game but yeah.

[@pacha2516]

I think an honor system like RDR2 would add much more depth to the Dragonborn. For example, gaining honor for helping NPCs and killing enemies like Alduin and Miraak, and losing honor for stealing, murder and joining the Dark Brotherhood.

[@belalugosisdead4444]

It's an rpg, you're supposed to be the character development

[@Shadow61250]

Yes

[@comradecthulhu6052]

Bellaroo But the game doesn’t allow you to. You can’t be evil and have that effect the world. If I murder several merchants, I’m still the Dragonborn to the people of Skyrim, as if I saved the merchants from bandits instead of killing them. I can’t choose my class, the older games allowed you to do both that or create your own class.

[@nocthemedic2951]

@@comradecthulhu6052 you realize how limiting the class system is for roleplay? If you're forced to choose a class you can't go outside of it. But what Skyrim does you can basically make your own classes. Nothing is Stopping You from being a paladin that only uses maces and restoration Magic.

[@chipputer]

@@comradecthulhu6052 Being good or evil has no effect on you being the Dragonborn. Miraak is still dragonborn despite clearly having malicious intent.