Why The Expanse Was Locked Out of the Emmys | In The Frame

Every awards season brings its share of flubs and snubs, overlooking shows or performances that deserve recognition. Here at The Escapist, we are big fans of The Expanse. Personally, I have singled it out as a worthy successor to Game of Thrones and the defining science fiction show of the past 10 years. The Expanse absolutely deserves more awards and the attention that more mainstream recognition would bring to the show. Even with a single season left to broadcast, it is a monumental accomplishment that deserves consideration among the peaks of the modern television landscape.
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#TheExpanse

[@AK-nc4ul]

The Expanse is far and above almost all of the major TV favorites. Arguably the best sci-fi show of all time... in my opinion, it is.

[@yosefshekelberg5433]

Battlestar Galactica.

[@James-mb3je]

@@yosefshekelberg5433 yep that was great too, not a fan of the mysticism however but the expanse is better

[@airidaskondrotas3696]

Babylon 5?

[@foldionepapyrus3441]

@@airidaskondrotas3696 Yeah, I think for me that one might just be better TV, before The Expanse Babylon 5 was the one I'd pick for sure. But damn is it hard to choose between the few really stand out Sci-fi's for 'best of all time'. You also have to deal with questions like does something looking dated effectively eliminate it from being 'best ever' even if its really good and at the time was mindblowingly good, or can dafter less hard sci-fi be a winner - well crafted old stuff can still be very charming but it can't match more recent well crafted shows for SFX and likely look dated in other ways too - V for instance is a very fun older sci-fi, Gerry Anderson's UFO and Space Precinct are very very dated looking but really good for what they are. And can something like Doctor Who (old or new) with its unique style compete in the same category.

[@evildude951]

It also doesn't help that the expanse includes subtle but clear commentaries on historic colonialism and corporate views on the value of human life - neither of which would play well in that arena. Much easier to nominate the train wreck that was the end of got

[@dedcaesar2325]

@@MB-fy8kk Damn! I was just going to say that. Not only that, but it shows how diversity should be handled, by acknowledging and accepting it and not making it the driving force/sole characteristic of the characters in the show.

[@getnohappy]

@@dedcaesar2325 I was thinking the same. Expanse has probably the most diverse set of both actors and (importantly) characters of a modern show, but just low-key gets on with it. Ironically, not making that the shows selling point has probably limited its exposure.

[@TJH1]

The Expanse is so much better than any other science fiction show we have received in many years and it has been utterly overlooked. A crying shame. We are so starved for "hard" science fiction television. We mostly get served fantasy television pretending to be something it isn't. Again, such a shame.

[@Brownyman]

“The Expanse” is a time machine, not a television show. Therefor it can’t be nominated for an Emmy.

[@StickWithTrigger]

the expanse is an amazing show

[@Darren_Mooney]

It is!

[@CaptainVideoBlaster]

Emmys are bought, not earned.

[@pamdemonia]

The expanse is absolutely amazing. Deep and subtle and huge.

[@Darren_Mooney]

It is.

[@Skleog]

Nowadays, who even cares about awards? They're always whether influenced by social and political trends, and let's not forget the personal bias that faceless juries are carrying. IRL, a worthy piece of cinema will rarely get a deserved award.

[@airlemental]

This actually explains why I always hate awards programs. I had never really put it all into words, but now it’s much clearer. Thank You. I will continue to watch and rewatch the Expanse for many years, but not waste any screen time on awards shows.

[@dennisdavidov782]

It is bizzare that a mediocre show like The Mandalorian gets dozens of nominations while The Expanse gets none.

[@mrcheesemunch]

Who wants interesting and unique entertainment with excellent world building when you can have laughably predicable plots, weak action and...haha funny baby!

[@hollandscottthomas]

I enjoy both for different reasons, but THE EXPANSE is far and away the best scifi show in years and years and deserves some godsdamned respect and recognition!

[@R1project0]

tbh I just hope the Expanse's influence is going to inspire people to make better scifi

[@tracymetherell8744]

The Expanse is among the best Sci Fi shows ever. It has been on Amazon for HALF of its life. It deserves better.

[@getnohappy]

6:28 whenever I hear about viewing figures in the 80s/90s as a benchmark (for anything), it makes me want to grab a megaphone, break into a media producer's club, and scream *breath* THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE TO WATCH OR DO THEN *ahem* ^^

[@Darren_Mooney]

To be fair, the trend has accelerated in the last decade.

[@ThatFanBoyGuy]

The worst part about movies, television and video games being considered art is that it creates the art snob. "If it's popular, it truly can't be good! This little obscure movie/video game/television show is true art and truly good!" Whether for the "right" reason on the "wrong" reason, it is popular for a reason.

[@yodal_]

I gave an audible "Oof" at that dig at Green Book.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Julia Roberts’ reaction is kinda great.

[@mrcheesemunch]

Because it's one of the only genuinely good shows running right now and we can't have a good show clearing house

[@furyxan]

I'm convinced that The Expanse is just too smart a show for your average TV viewer or critic and that always holds it back from getting the views and attention it deserves.

[@elvisibra]

I mean, they tried to make it dumber with 2nd half of s5, and it was pretty dumb, compared to other 4 and a half seasons, but you can never be dumb enough for Emmys, and that's what I'm afraid of, that they'll go full on dumb with s6 attempting to get an Emmy, and when that still doesn't happen, tiny part of the show that already wasn't obliterated by audience, will get vaporised..

[@Krystalmyth]

If GoT Season 8 got nominated that many times, then the Emmys have become the Grammys to me. They're worthless.

[@Yesquire0]

34 nominations for a season that obliterated all of the entertainment value of the seven seasons that preceded it? Did they have a category for Bleachbit Show of the Year?

[@Krystalmyth]

@@Yesquire0 Seriously. That's what I'm maddest about. I can't even go back and enjoy the first few seasons ever again. They destroyed a legacy. A really good one.... and they literally weren't even rushed to do it. HBO told them they could have taken the time, but they didn't want to. Because of their juicy Star Wars contract... which they lost as a result of their stupid greed. Disney saw that trash and changed their minds. GoT what they deserved.

[@hollandscottthomas]

@@Krystalmyth I will never not be disappointed by how hard D&D fucked the whole GoT franchise with their shortsightedness. Give give it to someone else if you don't want to finish it ffs! The directors were totally capable of handling it better.

[@tj3603]

It may also have something to do with the fact that every Holywood award nomination requires heavy lobbying of judges and members of committees. It well-known secret.

[@quiett6191]

The Expanse wasn't even not nominated in the Saturn Awards this year. You know what topped the list for receiving the most noms? Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker, including a nomination for writing🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@andrewxu3602]

Hey Darren, are you still reading the comments?

[@Darren_Mooney]

I am! It’s been a busy week, but I still check in. (I don’t think there’s too much that requires me to weigh in this week!)

[@andrewxu3602]

@@Darren_Mooney Cool! One of the ways The Expanse had changed the way I view sci-fi is by showing how so many of its commonplace tropes (artificial gravity that can just be turned on and off, shields on spaceships, inertial dampening) exist purely out of convenience and have no actual basis in reality. It also shows that there are much more creative ways to allocate a high budget than simply having the main characters fight a CGI monster, or including a studio-mandated action scene every single episode (cough cough). Moving forward, I want action movies/shows to have less of that, and more of a dozen people shooting at each other in microgravity. I want to see more space battles where bullets carve right through ships. And maybe one day we can get to the point where movies can believably show a hundred people walking around in 0.2g.

[@LikeTheBuffalo]

Now do one on why INVINCIBLE was excluded.

[@Der_Bierbaron]

I read some books and tried to recommend them plus the tv show to friends, yet it’s more niche than it deserves to be. Also the story feels longer than it should be. After opening all the portals, I thought they would be more creative and science fiction-y

[@Krystalmyth]

It isn't very good scifi to me. I miss Incorporated. :/

[@lucidnonsense942]

Expense's problem is also that the books get weaker as they go on. It starts as gritty hard sci-fi, with a focus on geopolitics (solarpolitics, I guess,) but turns into fantasy fiction heist procedural. Plus, the bloat... good grief, the bloat... Corey's editor needs a kick up their proverbial.

[@hollandscottthomas]

I don't understand why, if these awards shows are so uncomfortable letting scifi/fantasy stories touch their serious dramas, that they don't just make a separate category for them. Like, animation finally has its own award. Comedies and musicals are (weirdly) lumped together. Why not just have a "Best Science Fiction or Fantasy" category?

[@kevineusebio]

there aren't enough musicals on television to warrant its own category

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

While the Academy has its serious problems - the wilful exclusion of mocap from any award and the way 'Best Animated' has been 'Best The-show-I-think-my-kids-actually-watched-maybe' stand out - the voting structure seems to help as much as it hinders. Whenever a popular film has enough Oscars juice to get a nomination, audiences take it seriously, and breakthroughs like Parasite being so good it really did get the votes keep it in the public eye. While the Emmys voting structure seems to allow it to be more popular, it end up becoming more populist, with TV shows clearly nominated because they are well known instead of for actual merit being so common people don't even joke about it any more. Trying to draw the line between popular recognition and populist soft-pandering seems exceptionally difficult.

[@freddice8156]

To add to that, award shows never took animated films seriously too like genre shows except they never bothered to change that. Every freaking is a Disney or Pixar films despite being mediocre and outshined by lots of other great animated films.

[@RichardPhillips1066]

What's what? A Massive white elephant

[@travisspazz1624]

Uh excuse me. The Killing is one of the best cop shows in the last decade with one of the best endings as well!!

[@Billyisyourdad]

Does it get better as it goes? I've been trying but i'm 10 episodes in and it's just not grabbing me

[@robertwinslade3104]

Season 1 is easily the weakest IMO, although I still enjoyed it. Season 2 is a huge step-up in quality

[@Yesquire0]

It's all a matter of taste. If you like shoot-em-up space opera, and are annoyed by the mystery genre, then you probably are at best neutral with what you've seen so far. The action does pick up considerably from where you are through the end of s.3., and having all mysteries revealed to you is immensely satisfying.

[@roaminronin7818]

3 > 2 > 1 or 4 > 5 imo.. seasons 2 & 3 are excellent. I think most people struggled early before getting hooked.. it was late in season 1 when it just started clicking for me

[@TheCreepypro]

injustices like what happened to the expanse and to scifi in general is why I stopped watching awards shows I love scifi and most things in it so why watch awards shows that refuse to acknowledge them? especially since most of the time they are popularity contests from people who don't even understand what makes any of the stuff they award good thus making most of the awards inconsequential but I digress when awards shows actually start giving awards out on merit instead of popularity I'll watch again

[@Dibbsi]

It's too late capitan Picard, I've seen it all.

[@Darren_Mooney]

Sadly, I didn’t get to include his classic “the Captain needs to do more fighting and f&!king” advice to then-new writer Ronald D. Moore.

[@a.b.6988]

Hot take: The expanse's acting wasn't very good, in any season. A few actors were outstanding, (Alex, Amos, Fred, Dawes, Miller), many were mediocre, and a few main characters were just all around bad actors. The writing wasn't very good most of the time, and a lot of the necessary shortcuts around the books' hard to depict plot were nonsensical and hand-wavy. There isn't a lot to commend there except the special effects, the setting (which is really the book authors' doing), or a few actors' performances.

[@krepes8685]

Im inclined to agree, and yet I’m somehow still able to look past those issues and enjoy it. Though I must say, the actors for Amos, Alex and Miller are fantastic. Perhaps the universe in which it is set eclipses the show itself? The Mass Effect games are kinda like that.

[@pseudonymousbeing987]

Your comment seems to imply that you're not aware that the two authors are central to the show's production. This is categorically not a GRRM and Benioff and Weise situation. And by writing which component do you mean? That's too broad a word to mean much of anything to me. Also what egregious shortcuts were taken?

[@hoon_sol]

Alex and Fred weren't outstanding actors in any way, shape, or form, they were quite mediocre; Amos, Dawes, and Miller were, though (Dawes being played by veteran actor Jarred Harris should be mentioned). Other great actors/actresses which have been recurring are Bobbie, Drummer, and Ashford. Also, the writing is stellar.

[@TheCybercoco]

If Hollywood wants to stop bleeding viewership, then perhaps Hollywood should stop doing stupid things like showering accolades on shows and seasons that viewers are pissed off about. Stop attempting to rub salt on wounds. Hollywood (and media in general) has done an effective job at creating an "us vs. them" environment when it comes to the viewers and fans. And they wonder why people are not watching anymore. So out of touch.

[@rikusschulze6249]

well, black panther only was recognized because it was one of the blackest films ever xD

[@hollandscottthomas]

It won best costume design, best production design and best original score, all of which were the top of the industry that year.

[@unvergebeneid]

The Sopranos lost to 24? Really?

[@Darren_Mooney]

24’s fifth season, to be fair. Which was a good season. But yeah, HBO wasn’t yet controlling the breeze that decided how the Emmys blew.

[@dedcaesar2325]

Lovecraft Country nominated for outstanding drama series gets cancelled and not getting a season 2. The Expanse 5 seasons deep and getting better with each season, survived cancellation after 3 seasons, 6th season just finished filming gets...nothing. What the fuck?!

[@redryder3721]

I think the real issue is we are two worlds looking at each other, like a fish in an aquarium and a cat looking at each other. The emmies cater to a certain demographic. A highly social demographic who watch theatre, who drink wine, and who think staying up until 10pm is an uncouth, barbaric practice. They don't understand sci-fi and fantasy. Not our problem. I've never watched these award ceremonies you speak of. The emmys, and whatever the other one was.

[@maxpower2480]

Well, at least your podcast got me watching it... Just started season 3. Like it so far, but you severely undersold how bad some of the actors are... One in particular is... an experience...

[@realpopchaser]

It's simple. Awards people are not smart about science and don't understand science and this reflect their attitude about scj fi shows. We need to get smarter people who understands science in the academy.

[@invadervim9037]

The Emmy's are a joke so it's OK

[@nioutest]

Dunno, i love sci-fi, but i think this show has really lots of flaws too, i am not necessarily sure it absolutely deserves an award.

[@jpeters213]

Its really hard for me too admit this but. . . . compared to all the previous seasons I didn't think season 5 of the expanse was very good. >.< Don't know why, but things just felt off to me, the show didn't click and I wasn't enjoying it anymore

[@larrymcmorris8731]

And?? What matters is the fact you enjoy not some crappy award!!

[@Darren_Mooney]

To be fair, this is the closing argument that the video makes.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

If the awards didn't matter beyond the industry, they wouldn't be televised and it would be just another work conference. Shows that win get views, get renewals, get spin-offs; the people who win for shows can get hired on this basis. While awards like the Emmys are significant, the way they play motte-and-bailey between critical appraisal and marketing campaign should be criticised.

[@john6l4]

The new season of the Expanse wasn't very good, honestly. Past season left me bored and unfulfilled.

[@dedcaesar2325]

Season 4 felt a little dull to me, but still great. But I loved season 5.

[@roaminronin7818]

Agreed, started strong but then started moving into eyeroll territory as it went on... and I love this show! Perhaps a sign of the times because the writing for most everything is terrible the past couple years.

[@MooKyTig]

It's almost like the drop in interest in these shows was correlated with the preachy woke political bs they started shoving down our throats... oh wait no, that couldn't possibly be the reason. smh. Edited: By "these shows" I meant the Oscars, Emmys, etc. not the movies/tv shows.

[@robertwinslade3104]

The Expanse was always overtly political, I don't know why some people seemed to only start noticing that in season 5 and suddenly decided it was a bad thing

[@Darren_Mooney]

This logic is… unconvincing. After all, the Oscars have long recognised and awarded socially conscious films. At the ceremony’s peak popularity, it was awarding films like “Schindler’s List”, “Driving Miss Daisy”, and so on and so forth. If anything, those movies are far more “worthy” (inverted commas intentional) than, say, “Parasite” or “Moonlight.”

[@Darren_Mooney]

@@robertwinslade3104 To be fair, see also: “Doctor Who.”

[@MooKyTig]

@@robertwinslade3104 To me there has always been a difference between a show having politics and "being political." I think in the case of the Expanse I see a lot of arguments where people are trying to read *way* to much into it, strangely enough, in a way that conforms to their per-existing bias. Shocking :) I apologize if my original comment was unclear - I did mean the loss in popularity of the Oscars and the like, not the Expanse - so I edited it. I think the video nailed the problem with the Expanse and awards... the genre will never get respect from these people.

[@Wobby266]

@@Darren_Mooney Why are they more worthy?

[@MrArekrem]

Because it's not very good. It over-relies on conflict and is tiring because of that. Everyone is a sociopath. Same problems as with the new Star Trek shows.

[@Yesquire0]

That's an odd take on The Expanse. Most people revel in the realization that none of the characters are pure evil, that all are nuanced tremendously, with even the supposed villains having perfectly logical reasons for their behavior and their choices. It's what sets The Expanse apart and above most other shows. In real life, you rarely find a purely evil person anywhere. People always view themselves as the "good guy" in any conflict, and think they have rational and unbiased reasons for viewing themselves that way. I'd agree the show is based upon "conflict" between and within nations, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a TV show or movie that isn't based upon interpersonal or international conflict. Forest Gump, maybe? Even Forest had a lot of interpersonal conflict.

[@hollandscottthomas]

Every story ever written relies on conflict. It's fundamental to storytelling.