Why the Heartline Coaster is so Terrible

The Heartline Twister Coaster has by the far the worst stats in the game, making it one of the worst coaster types. In this video we find out how this came to be.
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[@MarcelVos]

I have gotten quite some comments about trying to win scenarios with only heartline coasters and similar challenges. The problem with this is that those challenges aren't particularly super difficult because the Heartline coaster is still a rollercoaster, and rollercoasters are by default really good rides. The heartline is bad for a rollercoaster, but it's still miles better than a go-karts or spiral slide.

[@TrianglePants]

How about a puzzle-park with a checkerboard-like fencing layout? Funzinnu, a Korean channel, streamed footage of such a park. Really good channel for puzzle-park streams, eve if most footage is a few months to several years old.

[@RaynmanPlays]

I came into the comments specifically to suggest this. Now I'm sad.

[@juliamavroidi8601]

Only Spiral Slides challenge

[@claudetheclaudeqc6600]

In recent OpenRCT2 versions, it get an pretty good exitement buff, and a small nausea buff

[@KroutonCing]

Also better then the space rings.

[@eier5472]

My guess is that Chris Sawyer programmed the Heartline Twister, and to a lesser extent the Standup Coaster, this way, because they were both made by a Japanese company called Togo. Their rides in Japan are usually rated very exciting and are good in shape, but when Togo entered the US market with their Ultra-Twister (the Heartline), the rides were not well built and maintained, which lead to a very rough and unpleasant ride experience. Togo also built Windjammer Surfracers at Knott's Berry Farm, which had *huge* maintenance problems, and after KBF sued Togo US essentially went bankrupt, and all of their rides in the US - except one - were dismantled shortly after.

[@roddydykes7053]

That’s some interesting RCT/real life ride lore

[@Yoshi348]

I hear this a lot but a big problem is that at the end of the day, putting a cool and unique looking roller coaster in your game and then making it suck isn't exactly a good experience for your players and the game, so it doesn't really explain anything.

[@keiyakins]

Clearly we need a "park is Japanese" flag to buff it

[@StarfoxHUN]

I think its a bit more simple than that. I think Chris Sawyer just made the stats based on his personal experience riding the Coasters during his travelling after TTD's success. And so he just did not enjoyed (that much) riding the 'Heartline' so he gave it bad stats in the game.

[@RemixedVoice]

Chris Sawyer is from UK, not USA. I don't know if UK had any Togo's

[@spamwise249]

Spent so much of my time building increasingly elaborate versions of these thinking "this'll be the one that's good" and was always disappointed. Both sad and encouraging to learn just how bad it really is.

[@askthepizzaguy]

At least you know, it was never your fault.

[@Paintplayer1]

Yep, you can confidently say that it was the coaster itself that was the problem, not your design

[@tsm2112]

From what I understand, John Wardley worked as a technical advisor on the game to some degree and was part of the team that developed Nemesis at Alton Towers. At some point while planning for the site where Nemesis now sits, John Wardley was able to ride the Arrow Dynamics prototype pipeline coaster and came away from the experience thoroughly unimpressed. My guess is that John Wardley relayed his negative experience to Chris Sawyer at some point in the game's development, and the opinion found it's way into the game's code.

[@reillywalker195]

John Wardley did indeed find Arrow's pipeline prototype boring, although Chris Sawyer based his pipeline coaster in RCT on TOGO's model. My guess is that Sawyer gave it bad stats for two reasons: Wardley's thoughts on Arrow's prototype, and TOGO International's poor ride quality. While TOGO's Japanese rides are all or mostly well-regarded, their rides outside of Japan were and are known to be rough and unpleasant.

[@knightwolf3511]

@@reillywalker195 i kinda wonder if the ride stats are based part on real world on how popular a ride is also heartline vertical lift in japan kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKKmiYWMqrlraaM

[@CentralJerseyRailfan]

@@knightwolf3511 it’s possible the RCT Ultra Twister is specifically based off the Astroworld version at the time because of the 45° lift

[@oneandonlysound3453]

I wish they'd included the Arrow Prototype pipeline coaster in one of the RCT2 expansions. If that ridicoulous 4-accross dive that is more like a wild mouse got in when none were ever built I wish it had, RCT3 is just ugly to me tbh (since it is on there, and also buggy city).

[@frtzkng]

The coaster you're talking about is the Arrow Pipeline, not the Heartline shown in the video. The Pipeline prototype is really obscure but found its way into RCT3

[@BrumBrum2222]

That is dedication to destroying the Heartline Coaster to give it lower stats in every way lol. Gotta admire Sawyers commitment.

[@TheLuchaBear]

For me the Heartline Coaster is THE guilty pleasure coaster to put in your park. Yes, it has terrible stats. Yes, it doesn't have that many special track pieces. Yes, it kinda is one dimensional... but heck, I'm still gonna use it when it's an option, because its unique look alone makes it worth it for me.

[@cleanerben9636]

build one above your torture maze to display dominance over the guests

[@TheLuchaBear]

@@cleanerben9636 "One" ... *evil laugh*

[@lemonbread8019]

I think a mod with custom track pieces and rebalanced stats for the heartline twister would be cool. Vertical lifts like the ones in japan, a turntable and dive loop piece, that sort of thing.

[@axeliasalaria8905]

Id love this, if only to make them more like the real thing. The vertical lift is so cool IRL.

[@lemonbread8019]

​@@axeliasalaria8905 The best part is how they tilt into it, it's something straight out of imagination.

[@AdamSmith-gs2dv]

@@axeliasalaria8905 It actually is based off a real one, it's based off of Ultra Twister at Six Flags Astroworld. It had a 45 degree but the transfer piece was mechanical not the off thing in the game

[@Wiimeiser]

Maybe a new version of the Heartline for consistency/parity with existing scenarios. That's what I'd do.

[@sarttan]

I'd just be happy with additional track pieces tbh.

[@princesscadance197]

The sheer level of pure malice this guy has for the Heartline Twist is impressive.

[@TheMartianGeek]

This could apply either to Marcel or Chris Sawyer, and it would still be true.

[@amethyphoenix]

It's like what Marcel said in his "all coaster types in one sentence" video. What exactly did the Heartline do to Chris Sawyer that made him make the coaster THAT terrible? But to play devil's advocate and to reference the end of the video, the Heartline is just there for the memes at this point.

[@Corpsegrinderr]

the heartline coaster killed my family

[@digitalizedmind6784]

i honestly like it despite its flaws, becuase it's buffed in open rct2 and being fun to build is just as important as having useful stats imo. Meanwhile marcel takes the fattest shits on this poor tube coaster thing

[@RickRaptor105]

2:45 of course the right coaster has a higher excitement rating, who wouldn't be hyped to ride a coaster with completely invisible track sections

[@BigDBrian]

I've got an invisible dress on sale that you may be interested in...

[@jonnnnniej]

@@BigDBrianand I've got some invisible shoes that will go with it really well!

[@sabretooth1997]

I do kind of get why the scenery and synchronization bonuses are reduced. You're sitting more or less inside a cage, inside a tube. Your interactions with and visibility of other elements of the park are therefore understandably reduced. Same goes for interaction with other rides, especially considering that as the only truly "linear" ride (excluding the chairlift and shuttle-mode transport rides), there really isn't much opportunity for meaningful interaction anyway. Plus, you're in a cage in a tube. The real insult would be if, say, you built a looping coaster around a heartline, and the excitement bonus given to the looping coaster due to the heartline was less than it would be from any other type, say for example, a corkscrew or another looping.

[@TS_Mind_Swept]

"Only truely linear" Reverse freefall coaster: Am I nothing to you?!

[@sabretooth1997]

@@TS_Mind_Swept Apparently nothing, seeing as I conveniently forgot about it...

[@cubicinfinity2]

It would become hilarious if it LOWERED the stats of the lopping coaster.

[@sabretooth1997]

@@cubicinfinity2 Sounds like a new stat requirement. All rides built within 16 tiles of a Heartline get their excitement ratings divided by 2. Now imagine a scenario involving a smallish park that has a couple big pre-built Heartlines. One of the stipulations is that they are historic and can not be modified.

[@TS_Mind_Swept]

@@cubicinfinity2 "You're bringing down the property for all use of the whole neighborhood!"

[@cranapple3367]

The balance change I'd make is to make it attract more guests to the park. It's a unique coaster type, so it being a way to bring lots of people in would make sense. Maybe the first Heartline should have some insane contribution to the soft guest cap like 200 or something.

[@Gin-toki]

This and perhaps some more unique track elements such as vertical lift and others.

[@beez1717]

That's a really good idea! It makes it a good idea to actually build one!

[@CentralJerseyRailfan]

Might be just me but the real world Togo Ultra Twisters (especially the dive loop one at Rusutsu Resort) appear way more exciting than the game makes it seem.

[@veggiet2009]

I was coming to the comments to ask this very question, "How does it stack up against real world examples?" I only have second hand knowledge from the internet. I've heard of caged type coasters that allow train cars to spin having a finicky reputation, like they're great if they're maintained by skilled operaters and your train car has well balanced rider weights, but if it goes improperly maintained and the weight of riders is off it can easily create a more nauseous and intense experience. The one thing that I could see being very logical is the scenery bonus, as when you're in this ride you're in a cage most of the time, scenery is not that visible and would not add that much real world excitement to a ride. This seems to be the logic with giving the inverted coaster more of a scenery boost, as the coaster is literally placing guests facing the ground where most of the scenery will logically be.

[@keiyakins]

The rule of thumb for Togo coasters is that in Japan they're pretty great but overseas they're miserable.

[@florianlonnes2283]

Ive only been on the one in Japan, Rusutsu Resort. Given its pretty old but it was a really painful experience, rough and it hurt my head. Comparable to the worst Vekoma SLCs

[@bocahdongo7769]

@@keiyakinsEven in Japan, they are all of you can remember that arguably being good Other than that, either will kill your head, groin, or literally kill you

[@EndiXIV]

I know what you mean but the idea that they "seem better than they seem" is a paradox and I thought that was funny

[@felinetrousers]

Chris Sawyer was like "fuck this coaster type in particular"

[@asterash3389]

I went into this thinking "hey, maybe the heartline is so bad because of some kind of glitch, or an overlooked effect or something" But no, it seems Chris Sawyer really did just get bullied by a heartline twister coaster as a child and decided to take vengeance in this game.

[@DarkOmegaMK2]

During development, the Heartline coaster spilled hot coffee on accident on Chris Sawyer. Chris Sawyer retaliated accordingly.

[@rikschaaf]

I also disliked building with it. Both the fact that it didn't have turns and the fact that it loses all momentum when reversing directions made it very unsatisfactory to build with.

[@svenjanssen8210]

Don’t bully the Heartline Coaster, it has feelings too, they may be twisted, but it has them😢

[@lahodal]

Heart-twisting comment..

[@Gameprojordan]

Even if it sucks I still like having one in my park. I like the little Bengal tiger cars for it that were included in the wacky worlds expansion

[@gfrewqpoiu]

This has actually been changed in OpenRCT 0.4.0. The base excitement is now 3.00 instead of 1.40 and the Ride Bonus Value was increased to 70 from 35.

[@AlexanderWilithinIII]

My theory for why the Heartline gets such low bonuses from scenery, surrounding coasters, and synchronized stations is that from a realistic standpoint, I don't think guests would be able to see all that much while on it. Each car is just surrounded by hundreds of metal pipes, really limiting visibility.

[@Pystro]

That could also explain the increased nausea from g-forces. They surely disorient you more if you are limited in how much of the track you see. But that still leaves the higher intensity modifier, and the high nausea and intensity bases unexplained. Also, I think you should still get decent bonuses from synchronization. The point of that is to have a car close to your side, and the pipes block that direction much less than any views close to the forwards and backwards direction.

[@Skipatronic]

I had a Heartline Twister in one of my parks as a kid and I think exactly 1 person had it as their favorite ride.

[@mysteryninja354]

Honestly, the Heartline almost seems better as a really unique transport ride than a proper roller coaster.

[@BenvolioZF]

I have a theory that the exploit in RCT1 with the super high excitement with the transfer/roll/transfer setup made Chris Sawyer overcorrect in future versions.

[@CouchPotator]

but isn't it just as bad in RCT1?

[@scottthewaterwarrior]

The what now?

[@mattiatorX]

@@scottthewaterwarrior There was a bug in RCT1 where you could build a heartline with 255.0 excitement (I believe due to the entire heartline roll being considered "air time") in certain configurations. This was later fixed in RCT Classic and RCT2 as far as I know.

[@MrCheeze]

@@mattiatorX But did it still have equally awful stats if that exploit isn't used?

[@mattiatorX]

@@MrCheeze yep.

[@sinom_00]

I always use Heartlines and leave em in test mode or assign more handymen around it. They just look so cool.

[@jordanbradford7729]

This made me think of some future challenges you could try: * winning scenarios using only heartline coasters * winning scenarios by building coasters that don't have any of the ride features the coaster types are named for, such as corkscrew coasters with no corkscrews, looping coasters with no loops, etc.

[@Hazearil]

Wooden coaster without wood.

[@homestar92]

My theory for why the stats are so bad is that a single tile wide coaster with great stats would be a little bit overpowered. Then again, shuttle loops exist, so...

[@Codraroll]

The Inverted Impulse is also a single tile wide, but doesn't have the same hopeless stats.

[@reillywalker195]

@@Codraroll The Inverted Impulse Coaster has one downside over the Heartline, but it rarely matters: its drop height requirement. The Impulse needs to be much taller, which can be a problem in custom parks with height restrictions.

[@josephlaspisa7120]

I wonder if the devs were worried about it being easy to spam due to it only taking up one row of tiles (plus entrance and exit) If it were on par with other coasters, players could make rows of 10 excitement coasters with no real downside.

[@DoctorAllanGrey]

I feel like this was probably the most likely reason that it has such nerfed stats, for sure.

[@finaldusk1821]

That does make sense, but the countermeasures taken to avoid this are clearly overkill.

[@ClemPal]

I came to the same conclusion, even commented something similar, just laid the blame at Sawyer though lol. I bet that's what it is.

[@Codraroll]

Nah, the Inverted Impulse coaster has the same property of taking up no space at all, but it also has decent stats. Same with the Reverse Freefall.

[@masicbemester]

@@Codraroll now I want to try to fill a park with rows and rows of Reverse Freefalls

[@mrvenom88]

Can't say I agree on the rebalancing comment. OpenRCT2 fixes various strange things (glitched path bonuses, etc) and this seems no different. It's such a bizarre decision to have one coaster type be rubbish with no niche application or explanation. The Inverted Impulse Coaster takes up even less space and is reasonably good, and comparably priced for construction. This extends to the space rings in my opinion, as they're arguably a net negative to your park once built. It's not reasonable to have trap options in a game like this, in my opinion.

[@thundereagle4130]

Plus the fact they added new special elements like photo shoots on roller coasters that didn't have them. And you can argue the ''refurbish'' option shouldn't be in the game since the idea is the demolish old rides and replace them with new ones, constantly evolving your park. Personally I'd say make 2 versions. One with ''enhanced balance'' one with ''vanilla balance''. Just add a checkbox (or maybe a few checkboxes for thing like refurbishment) in the options menu. If they can add both RCT1 and 2's menu's, it shouldn't be to difficult to make a A and B file for different rides.

[@Grantzow]

Couldn't agree more. "The spirit of the game" is to build cool parks and to have fun. The way heartline is right now makes it appear less in parks and is not as fun as it could be, with better stats but also new tracks etc.

[@D3cepti0ns]

Maybe if you've ridden a heartline coaster in real life you wouldn't think its stats are underrated. Chris Sawyer didn't create ride stats based on popular online opinion, maybe it just sucks that bad if you've ever ridden one.

[@greatbrandini3967]

Agreed, the stats on the Heartline completely discourage ever building them in your park, at any stage of the game. RCT is about creativity and building interesting/unique rides, but the built in stats make it pretty much impossible to build a good HTC in game

[@mrvenom88]

@@D3cepti0ns in that case, include a different ride. We don't see plenty of IRL common flat rides because they're rubbish, after all.

[@illusionismm]

Personally, I think Sawyer realized that it would be really easy to cram 5+ heartlines in a tiny space, and so nerfed it into the ground to dissuade people from cheesing scenarios unfortunately, he forgot about microcoasters

[@zaklamp89]

Chri Sawyer is a themepark enthusiast he probably rode every coastertype in the game, this type got his stomach rolling and headache bursting I guess.

[@TehNoobiness]

IMO the answer to "should OpenRCT2 fix this" is to add some form of modding support, and create a "rebalance" mod that ships with OpenRCT and can be toggled on and off at the player's leisure.

[@spider0804]

Maybe Chris Sawyer rode a heartline coaster and hated it. Locked up in those tight over shoulder restraints going slowly through a track completely surrounded by supports juddering every time you hit a direction change. The real life coaster looks like it is a terrible experience to be honest.

[@brycem8161]

The shoulder restraints on the real thing ARE terrible.

[@BjornTheWombat]

ngl I would like to see an option in OpenRCT2 for a stat rebalance, i know it is not what OpenRCT2 is about but it is kinda silly how bad the stats can be

[@Krasbin]

I think it is in order for the heartline coaster. It's stats are just so bad in general, compared to any other coaster type.

[@mattiatorX]

@@Krasbin IMO the best way to fix some of the "bad" coaster types would be to bring in track elements the rides had in real life. Like the mini suspended pretty commonly had a vertical lift system, as did the heartline. Helix drops for the mini suspended, like the regular suspended, would also make it a lot more versatile.

[@Death1rock1334]

In openttd you have a settings page to change whatever parameters you want. including different bug fixes, or more settings of the original version. Openrct2 needs this!

[@kr46428]

The number of settings in OpenTTD has grown quite a fair amount over time. OpenRCT2 already has more settings and options than RCT2 ever had, and it is likely to continue to grow.

[@roberte2945]

10 minutes long? This is going to be a bloodbath.

[@ShinySwalot]

I wonder how Chris ever thought of those multiplier numbers, like did he just get a randomizer to run for the stats? or are they rounded off fractions?

[@merobo5066]

The numbers for inverted coaster and the observation tower make the rounded fraction hypothesis seem likely imo

[@emmata98]

getting less excitement from other things around is understandable since you can't see much outside of the tracks, when riding. But else I don't know

[@MenloMarseilles]

9:04 is an interesting point. I think I agree with it, at least in the Heartline Twister Coaster's particular case; its problem is its naturally bad stats, which is about as deliberate as design decisions can get in a game like this (even if the reasons for those decisions are a mystery). But it makes me wonder whether OpenRCT2 patches for other memetically awful coaster types might actually make sense. For instance, what if the Multi-Dimensional Coaster properly took seat position into account when calculating G-forces? Would it become a more useful/worthwhile coaster type if designers could use seat rotation to get finer control over the factors you described at 4:27, or to avoid excessive G-force penalties for track layouts that "should" exceed them?

[@scottthewaterwarrior]

I feel a good way to do it would be to create a seperate ride with a similar name thus preserving the origonal for memes and folks who want the authentic RCT experience.

[@Wiimeiser]

@@scottthewaterwarrior Would be useful for scenario compatibility, too.

[@Localhorst86]

Genuine question: rides get a scenery bonus for nearby scenery. What does "nearby" mean? How many tiles does it stretch outward and is it different for every ride type?

[@jonnnnniej]

Good question, now I wanna know too! :)

[@sabretooth1997]

I want to say Marcel addressed this in a past video but I'm not entirely sure. I do know there was some expose on how the bonus is a bit ridiculous in light of the tower rides, given that the scenery nearest the ride gives the most impact - despite the real life bonus being the fact that you could see the scenery much farther away.

[@Gameprojordan]

My guess it's similar to if not the same as the length of the perimeter of surrounding scenery available when saving a ride with nearby scenery included. I don't know exactly how many tiles but iirc it's consistently the same for all rides

[@MrDwarfpitcher]

@@sabretooth1997 he did make a video And I know that it had a cap of 24? Or 48? Anyway The scenery does not matter Any scenery is good. Also note that scebery is nust one variable. Rides close, under or over and paths also boost excitement so just use them too with a reasonable degree

[@umbrellaoli]

Even 7.29 excitment rating on the heartline coaster is huge achievement.

[@dyacktman]

Having ridden the Ultra Twister at Six Flags Astroworld when it was in operation, I can say that Sawyer's coding for the EIN on this ride type is just about spot on.

[@chrinschbro]

YES Finally You are completely explaining why it is so bad :) and not just ripping off on it ;)

[@Samuel_Hearfield]

My excitement record for the Heartline is around 6.2. Also the RCT3 version of the heartline is superior by far.

[@FoxMan_FF]

I think you've done three videos now explaining why this is bad in one way or another! It's a shame it has such bad stats ingame, as it really is one of the coolest concepts for a rollercoaster I've seen in my life.

[@NaveyBlu]

This is so informative, I've always wanted a breakdown of how the EIN stats were calculated

[@Yokuyin]

I wish a half-loop and half-twist was added to the coaster, so it didn't lose all momentum at the transfer pieces.

[@lemonbreadd4427]

congrats, not only did the stats get boosted to almost normal in the latest patch of open rct2 but the discussion that led up to it specifically references your video

[@gymnasiast90]

I had the idea for years, though. The video inspired me to get off my arse and finally do it.

[@BabinSquared]

When I was young, and Six Flags Astroworld still existed, I rode the Ultra Twister rollercoaster. The low score is well-deserved. Nobody liked that thing.

[@reillywalker195]

That and John Wardley's dislike of Arrow's pipeline coaster prototype probably informed Chris Sawyer's decision. The only TOGO Ultra Twisters that have been well-liked are those still operating in Japan.

[@vertujoe2886]

This is the ultimate tribute to the heartline. And I love it more than ever before.

[@alexv3375]

If the OpenRCT2 mods get to that level, it would be cool to see them add the Dive Loop transfer to this type (ala the Ultra Twister at Rusutsu Resort, Japan) as an element at some point!

[@DaNiePred]

Would love to see an interview of you and Chris Sawyer discussing every bit and stat of RCT in all its versions...that would be a multi season series 😀

[@pigfish99]

I will give the heartline one thing, it's tube design makes for cool tunnel effects when doing merging techniques with other coasters.

[@TubeCody]

Thank you for having the courage to make this video

[@drewsapp4384]

They are also way more prone to crashing than other coaster types. It’s like clockwork every time I build one, it crashes. It’s even happened with the prebuilt

[@reillywalker195]

That's because their transfer sections present additional opportunities for crashes to happen. You need to set the coaster to only dispatch cars with full loads and, ideally, ensure that cars enter the transfer sections at speeds lower than 30 MPH (48 km/h).

[@Kacza42]

It's just Heartline's destiny to be bad. That's why in RCT3 devs actually fixed Mini Suspended Coaster by letting it have longer trains, and not only Heartline is still as bad as earlier, but there's many better rides with the same one-tile width gimmick

[@Samuel_Hearfield]

I’d argue the Heartline is better in RCT3 than RCT2. The stars are slightly better and the throughput is higher too.

[@Kacza42]

@@Samuel_Hearfield Maybe, but stat-wise it still feels like you got penalty for failed requirement

[@Krasbin]

I don't know if it is already on the cards, but I would love a discussion about how scenery works. Maybe it is very simple, but to be able to combine both min-max as well as aesthetics, good knowledge of scenery however simple might help. EDIT: for example, what is the range of a scenery item?

[@HalfDecentBackgammon]

I've heard from Houston natives that the old Heartline Twister at Astroworld was a rough ride. Still would like to experience it though.

[@imperiallarch7610]

It was kind of like being in a washing machine that was being shoved back and forth by a playful giant.

[@cynicanal111]

Define "rough". It was nowhere near as rough as any Arrow looper, which meant that for its era, it was pretty smooth. It wasn't as smooth as any post-Batman B&M, but those weren't common in Ultra Twister's heyday.

[@RainingMetal]

I don't remember being able to use an on-ride photo section with this either.

[@WereDictionary]

Marcel tends to kick the Heartline Twister Coaster in the teeth in every one of its appearances and I always wondered how much of that was the meme and how much of it was genuine. Turns out is 100% on both. I would also really love for someone from the RTC community to track down Chris Sawyer and ask him for an interview or some thoughts about the games.

[@deanyockey5939]

RTC Roller Toaster Cytoon.

[@expendableround6186]

No wonder the long-awaited 0.40 update for OpenRCT2 changed the stats.

[@kackers]

Marcel really can't say no to any opportunity to rag on the heartline coaster

[@thisisthelukas]

Lmao I love how the best reason to keep the coaster awful is for the memes.

[@GamePlague]

I wonder if during development there was something that made the heartline overpowered so it got nerfed like crazy but then whatever its advantage was got removed. I think it should be rebalanced at least a little, even if just increasing the base excitement to 1.8 so that it's only slightly the lowest.

[@sfisher923]

Sure the Heartline Twister might be the Mikan Tsumiki (Both of them under went years of bullying) of RCT2 but I still love them the same as the Hyper-Twister or Twister

[@shadow-scope-fsm7165]

The one time I find the Heartline Twister Coaster useful is in scenarios like Adrenaline Heights. Because of guests preferring rides with high Intensity, coasters like this (and by virtue the Stand-Up Steel RollerCoaster) actually work quite favourably.

[@magicalwizard99]

Marcel, I have an idea for a video -- I'm not sure if the idea is substantial enough for a whole video but the idea is: "how far will a guest go for a free food voucher?" You would buy the free food advertisement for an item like 'hotdogs' and then you'd put one single hotdog stand in the back of the park between a gauntlet of paths to see how far guests will go for their free dog. I'm not sure if guests who come into the park for the free food voucher are coded to actually seek out the specific food stand, but maybe it's worth looking into.

[@familybroakajonny]

Another advantage this coaster has is that it can ALWAYS be a safe break failure if you place the transfer piece just at the back of the station that way the trains won’t go through the station too fast and guests are completely unharmed

[@vitorfabreeltermann2551]

The next version of OpenRCT2 will change the stats of the Heartline Twister Coaster and this change is already available in the newest development build.

[@ThomasSumner]

Chris Sawyer answered a question recently about the Heartline's terrible stats! "Many rollercoaster types I’d never ridden myself before they made it into the game, in fact I’ve still not ridden a Heartline Twister style ride in real life to this day. So the ratings in the game were based on what I’d read from other riders, most of whom weren’t very complimentary about their experiences, hence the poor ratings in the game!"

[@__8120]

I need a compilation of every time you bully the heartline coaster

[@alphax4785]

In b4 Chris Sawyer chimes in saying it was a glitch / oversight that never got corrected...

[@_zigzak]

How are you guys saving on the new format? Every time i save something, no matter what file location, whatever changes are made don’t save, or it won’t load the park at all. Particularly when trying to make a scenario with all the items selected.

[@vetschaap]

De getallen op 3:18 tussen de haakjes zien eruit als vectoren. (Sawyer is Schots en zou geen komma gebruiken als decimaal scheidingsteken, en de extra spatie is ook vreemd.) Dus de eerste vector zou kunnen instellen dat de minimale excitement 3 is, maar de 00 daarna doet dan heel wat anders (onmogelijk te zeggen wat zonder de rest van de code).

[@berkkarsi]

Its such a shame that such an interesting Roller Coaster that is very different from others gets horrible stats.

[@HendayAllStar]

You should do a video on the information kiosk and if the park maps actually help guests navigate better

[@ericfuchs123]

Having ridden three Togo coasters in my lifetime, they were all rough and very unpleasant, so I imagine that was part of it. The Togo-style stand-up coaster is also hardcoded to suck, but not at this extremity, so I'm not sure what's up here.

[@discarddungeon]

The heartline twister may be so terrible because its real-life inspiration, the defunct Ultra Twister at Six Flags Astroworld, was plagued with constant technical issues from day one to the point that it spent more time undergoing maintenance to re-weld fractures than in actual operation, and some consider it one of the most ill-conceived roller coasters ever built.

[@das_harti8128]

Recently, thanks to Deurklink, i learnt that the heartline trains have sprites for curves, even for smal curves and also for banked ones! (At least in OpenRCT2) Unfortunatly not for up- and downwards banked turns.

[@richmountain1128]

I cheated a dive loop into one in OpenRCT2 and it became invisible.

[@LEWIS1992]

We news to make a Marcel Vos + Chris Sawyer interview happen ASAP!!

[@offrails]

I wonder if Chris Sawyer got a good TOGO-quality beating on a trip to Astroworld back in 1999.

[@lmitz]

I mean it makes sense why scenery and synchronization are less effective for the heartline because it is enclosed so it would be harder to see that stuff.

[@Crabmaster]

The point about not having OpenRCT2 change it is valid, technically balance changes could be left for a mod for those that want a changed experience.

[@AceAviations2]

They've since buffed it but I had to disagree with this idea, OpenRCT2 is very much it's own thing, it has: 1. SIGNIFICANTLY higher caps on stuff than vanilla RCT2 as well as uses a different save format 2. Other caster types got buffed with new elements, hell the Lopping, Flying and LIM Launch coaster types got buffed recently with new elements for them 3. Two brand new coaster types (soon to be 3) that aren't in Vanilla RCT2/C As you can see OpenRCT2 has already made pretty significant changes to RCT2/C, so altering the Heartline Twister Coaster is within what they've already done.

[@Crabmaster]

@@AceAviations2 Yeah, I suppose that's true. And each update since I made that comment will only make yours more true. I still wouldn't mind if the project were more strongly built around good mod integration with some of the new features being like default included mods, for those that might want to pick and choose with an otherwise mostly vanilla baseline. OpenTTD is a bit more like that.

[@Goldenblade14]

Finally, an entire video dedicated to bullying the Heartline Twister Coaster! I've waited years for this!

[@S4Meow]

If you have ever ridden one, you know why its intensity is so high. They are incredibly uncomfortable and rather boring.

[@SoulSurvivor14]

I’m glad you included your excitement record, because I was quite curious

[@thedalekditto15]

It’s interesting how nowadays coaster enthusiasts have quite good sentiments on this coaster, as the two in Japan are generally well liked, even if not mind blowing, but the one that ever opened in the US was not well managed in manufacturing and maintenance and had a worse layout. People assumed it was the ride models fault, but it was Togo us not being careful when they made rides in the us like the standards they held in Japan. Since that one closed around 16 years ago the reputation has gotten better as that memory is replaced by the Japan twisters unique and fun even if not mind blowing experience.

[@sonicshaman2997]

im really excited everytime you upload a new video, theyre always a pleasure to watch!

[@CGFarrellCHG]

Marcel my man, once the apocalypse ends, I'll be disappoint if you don't review a heartline IRL

[@DarkstarArchangel]

As if the Ride Overview wasn't enough, RCTJesus had to make a 10 minute video explaining how the game program the Heartline's terrible stats. If only it did 90 degree turns if players were allowed to build 90 degree twists.

[@ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Based on information in other comments, I think they actually _should_ rebalance it. Make it not as handicapped in the excitement department (It's supposed to be the TOGO pipeline coaster, not Arrow's version, so penalizing the excitement based on his consultant's impression of the Arrow version was Chris Sawyer just plain screwing up), and probably cut back the obscene nausea gain (unless the US models really were that nauseating).

[@jacobandkatherinetucker9530]

So, let's assume, someone set out to balance the Heartline, what other balances would you like to see? I'm interested in seeing what else you think would need a tweak.

[@reillywalker195]

The Mini Golf should get its operating costs lowered. That'd make it more realistic and a much better "ride" to use.

[@BxPanda7]

Maybe he nerfed it into oblivion to not encourage making parks with 100 of those all next to one another since they are so space efficient ?

[@shukterhousejive]

Chris Sawyer saw the CEO of Togo coasters at a grocery store in Tokyo. He told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but he didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. The CEO said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”. Chris was taken aback, and all he could say was “Huh?” but the CEO kept cutting him off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of his face. Chris walked away and continued with his shopping, and he heard him chuckle as he walked off. When Chris came to pay for his stuff up front he saw the CEO trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at Chris. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

[@Tharronis]

What if OpenRCT started provided re-balances as a new set of options? I can see both the appeal of a vanilla experience, and having config options that allow for a re-balanced "modern" experience. Re-balancing the heartline twister could be among those, perhaps?

[@planescaped]

I don't see why increasing the heartline's base stats to at least be in-line with the other rides would be a bad thing for open RCT2 to do...

[@caseysmith1718]

We need some videos to see if you can pass scenarios with only the heartline twister coaster or only using that coaster type!

[@jarlsparkley]

Where did you find that picture of Chris Sawyer, Marcel? I'm just curious, I've always been curious about his life but he's a very private person so I had never even been sure what he looked like until now.

[@Timmzy27]

There is also the fact that the Heartline only takes 1 tile in terms of width making it easy to tuck away at the back of your park out of sight, maybe it was potentially “nerfed” because of this? Imagine if it had good stats and packing 10 of these next to each other out the way? I mean we can spam the tiny corkscrew design and achieve way better results but at least the Heartline can look good doing that

[@axialmount5571]

very cool video. I was thinking you could call the "EIN" stats the "ExIN" stats and read the abbreviation to make it nicer to say and hear

[@MasterCrash123]

I think, instead of just tweaking the stats, the producers of OpenRCT2 could maybe have a cheat menu toggle for updated/better stat calculations for it. Those that want to use the Heartline with better stats can, and those who don't want to change it can choose not to enable it. Not sure how hard it would be to implement, but it could be an option.

[@scottthewaterwarrior]

I think it wouldbe OK if they made a new version of it called the Heartline R (Rebalanced). Then we would still have the normal one for memes and folks who want an authentic experience, but also make the thing actually worth building.

[@JD3Gamer]

I think the one thing the OpenRCT2 devs should add to the Heartline Twister is the inverted reverser drop that the best real life version has. It’s otherwise such a boring coaster to build that I avoid it unless I arbitrarily decide to build at least one of every ride available to me in a scenario.