Why The Hobbit Sucks Part One: The Dwarves

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In Peter Jackson's three-part attempt to become George Lucas, meet the dwarves! The least memorable characters with foot-long beards since whoever was in the last Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
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The Hobbit Trilogy is the property of Warner Bros.

[@JustWrite]

I'm a little hard on Jackson here, and try to give him his due in a follow up video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5nam5Rurs-reJo

[@SkaYouth]

good for you for trying to 'fix' the damage that had been done. but still, fuck you anyway.

[@nuggetsfan231]

dude i just discovered your channel just wanted to drop by and say you're awesome

[@RashidMBey]

These videos convinced me to subscribe. I came for your sardonic wit, but I stayed for your insight. I'm glad you've matured your content and nuanced your subjects. You've transformed your sensational cynicism into sagacious scholarship. I'm really, really proud of this channel, and it's one of the few channels of my decade or more of KZbin experience for which I can say that.

[@nuggetsfan231]

Rashid M. Bey a well worded comment on KZbin? Get out lol

[@the81kid]

I thought all the points you made were good.

[@jasonl3277]

Hobbit trilogy is still way better than GOT season 8

[@Anna-tk7ui]

That's a given.

[@RedFloyd469]

@northern_lights When the vast majority of the fanbase happen to agree with the statement, and when the writing of Season 8 is so vapidly hilarious that pretty much no sane person is claiming that D&D did a good job.

[@imcarolean]

@northern_lights its objective tho

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

Bullshit. As much as I disliked season 8, I'd take it over this rancid shit pile any day.

[@sugibrar6886]

They are both great, but compared to lord of the rings or the first 6 season of GoT they are not that good

[@Drower]

If The Hobbit is three movies, Lord of the Rings should be 18 movies.

[@alegria1813]

The first movie used like half the first book so yeah if they wanted to turn the whole saga into movies they needed at least 6 movies

[@giokun100]

The problem is not the length. It's that they butchered Beorn's arc, Mirkwood arc and more. Instead we got cheesy action scenes and dwelf multiculti love.

[@cambick2338]

Time to finally give good ol' Tom Bombadillo his respect

[@thedefiant6244]

Drabant yesss very true

[@haillobster7154]

And ten trilogies for the Silmarillion! 😁👍

[@Domenico44055]

A funny thing that most people missed about Bombur is that he is the FASTEST runner of them all depite being the fattest. This is shown when they run towards Beorn's house and i think a couple more times in shorter distances. This also adds up to what Gimli said about dwarves, that they are natural born sprinters, not made for long distances

[@andrew-rn9ui]

As gimli runs across half of middle earth chasing after the urukai somehow keeping up with legolas and aragorn 🤣 , One of the funny things I always think about the og trilogy

[@Cernumospete]

The only Dwarf I ever cared about was Gimli, son of Glóin.

[@Cernumospete]

@Azog the defiler Well, somebody does. You wanna tell us something, Azog?

[@steyn5511]

@Azog the defiler Fuck of azog, you and your orc friends are ugly

[@Flexie1234]

@Azog the defiler Awhh what happened to your arm?

[@Kohana.gu18]

thats lord of rings......MAN Atleast know what u want to say.

[@Cernumospete]

@@Kohana.gu18 What came first? The dragon or the ring?

[@jean-jacquesgourdin1725]

"Having 13 dwarves all with similar sounding names was just a running joke when Tolkien wrote the book back in the thirties" Well, the joke's on you: those names come directly from the original dwarves in nordic mythology. Tolkien was just a big nerd.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yup

[@BobTheArchmage]

@Ishmam Masud - Cuz I Can "Snorri likes naming EVERYTHING", you make it sounds like Snorri invented Norse mythology, when he was just writing down what already existed.

[@mothyroom4089]

Jean-Jacques Gourdin period

[@anonb4632]

@Wrath-Amon Does he have ADHD or autism? Make up your mind!

[@obiwankenobi9141]

Sort of like Tolkien’s fan.

[@whynottalklikeapirat]

Thorin, Óin, Gloin, Kili, Fili, Dori, Nori, Ori, Bifur, Bombur, Bofur, Dwalin, Balin - and Stalin

[@squamish4244]

Only one of these dwarves is genocidal! Try and guess which one!

[@whynottalklikeapirat]

Valar Hmm. Bombur always seemed quite horribly peckish ...

[@Tlevids]

All of the dwarves are guilty of mass genocide: see the goblin chase scene.

[@lrush6983]

+whynottalklikeapirat You're one over the mark w/ Stalin Stalin was a dictator of the Soviet Union and was a terrible man! And yes, I know you were joking. Just wanted to point somethin' out

[@brentblackwolf6325]

I'm stealing this

[@kyeronelma4835]

The fact they messed with the lore purely for padding and to introduce an unnecessary love-triangle is what screwed it all up.

[@dancingderwish1067]

true

[@reek4062]

you mean Aragorn and Eowyn?

[@dancingderwish1067]

@@reek4062 I guess he means Kili and Tauriel

[@reek4062]

@@dancingderwish1067 Hobbit haters don't complain about the love subplot in the Two Towers

[@dancingderwish1067]

@@reek4062 maybe that is because the Aragorn/Eowyn love subplot is discreetly hinted in the book (The Return of the King) as well and becuase both Aragorn and Eowyn are "real" persons from the book which is not case of Tauriel

[@hannibalchow3425]

It’s crazy that you can read the book pretty much in the same amount of time it takes too watch the trilogy.

[@thedictationofallah]

But the book is far better

[@acoupleofgsanrandaneaniandann]

The Hobbit just feels thin. Like butter scraped over too much bread.

[@ComedyLoverGirl]

The first movie was mostly just running around. You can FEEL that the crew wasn't ready and didn't really know what they were doing and were just filming because they had to.

[@timesthree5757]

No it didn't they pretty much kept to the core of the book.

[@timesthree5757]

@@ComedyLoverGirl You could say that about lotr first movie.

[@elliadorabi3809]

One does not simply call the Hobbit a good movie

[@timesthree5757]

@Scuttle Scrub No, it is the reason why LOTR should've been six movies.

[@TrisketsCheese]

Don't blame Jackson for the trilogy. I'm sure it wasn't his decision to split it into 3 movies, it was probably the studio's attempt to squeeze every last penny out of the franchise. Hence why he looks like he wants to kill himself in most of the interviews.

[@ActualDrunkAtheist]

Um, Jackson is a joke. Why do you think Tolkiens son has announced to the public that he refuses to allow them to put The Silmarillion to film. It is arguably far superior to Tolkiens third age works and no one wants to see it butchered. Directors like Abrams, Jackson don't care about the story or the lore, they simply want to add as many special effects and terrible fight scenes with those special effects as they can so zombies can look at them and go "ooo pretty colors". Pretty colors do not a good movie make.

[@cam9378]

This. you may not really like Jackson, but the reason the original trilogy was so good was because he quite literally poured everything he was into the films. There's a really weird story behind how the Hobbit trilogy got made. New Line was semi-threatening Jackson to try and goad him into directing, essentially so they could put his name on it (because it was on the original trilogy). He got thrown the films, and without anywhere close to the amount of time or passion to give, and was expected to weave it into gold. In all the behind the scenes stuff around these movies, Jackson acts like he's just kind of going through the motions, and sometimes he outright looks/acts depressed. As shit as these movies are, it's not really his fault. It doesn't mean he didn't do a bad job, because he did, but he had a very low chance to succeed

[@tomasxfranco]

The Silmarillion is also not written in a way that's easy to translate into a movie. For the record, the way the hobbit is written it couldn't be done well as a single movie, but 2 would be perfectly reasonable.

[@HaganeNoGijutsushi]

Jackson could have quit. It's not like he was starving for money and about to end on the street. He's a big enough name he could have some leverage. He could have defended his artistic integrity instead of lending his name to this travesty. He made his choice, he made a mistake. Had he refused, maybe someone else would have done it in his place, but it wouldn't have been his responsibility.

[@marcomeme4875]

Hagane no Gijutsushi there are contracts and shit you know

[@aishas4818]

My 13 year old ass knowing all the names of the dwarves, their roles, eating up all the annuals and official film guides, watching every behind the scenes ever: Oh.

[@MoonlightWalnut]

Please don’t tell me you’ve done that without having watched lord of the rings as well. If you love this trilogy and world so much, I hope you’ve watched the latter, larger part of it.

[@ladynatalie4081]

Oof same

[@katiewatie51]

girl same... and now watching the movies without that 12 year old excitement im like 👁👄👁 this is shite

[@bobbyberro8107]

Dibidibidissapointed _in_life yeah same and getting the Lego sets

[@MrMoleHole]

Ngl this was me, I still remember all the dwarves names

[@evan-gi8cd]

Jackson wasn’t even in charge of the hobbit trilogies, he got thrown in late and tried to combine his view of the movies with the previous directors to finish the movie on time and it got all screwed. I don’t know the full story but it was screwed from the beginning. There are ALOT of things wrong with the hobbit trilogy but it’s not all peter Jackson’s fault

[@mjl11]

Nah mostly the fault of Warner Brothers, they also screwed up the DC movies from Zack Snyder for example. They just wanna compete with Disney but fck it all up instead.

[@alecocothunder8277]

I agree with you. They should have just give Peter Jackson some time. The LOTR was great because it was prepared. That i can say it needs work

[@ddespair]

Well he sure looked comfortable taking credit for the films in his production blogs, including the last one where’s he’s polishing awards.

[@evan-gi8cd]

@@ddespair did the hobbit even get rewards? Lawl

[@Shadowkey392]

@fee foo and yet, amazingly, despite all the problems, they still turned out three perfectly good movies. Not LOTR good, but still good.

[@SkintSNIPER262]

Well, they had 3.5 years of pre production for LOTR, and only 3 months for The Hobbit. The Studio was rushing them. watch all the BTS for The Hobbit. Jackson seems so stressed and exhausted. Constantly thinking on the fly due to lack of time. He was forced to rely on a lot of post productions. Jackson didn't even want any part of this

[@BluStarGalaxy]

Why not say to the studio I need more time and if not I am not directing the movies. Jackson did this to himself.

[@SkintSNIPER262]

we don't know what went on. Those who control the money control the movie. Not the director

[@Proud2bGreek1]

@@SkintSNIPER262 That's what Bluelaser is talking about. Jackson was in it for the money, he could've told them that he needs more time or he won't direct them but he didn't.

[@AragornGhost15]

Their was a real pressure of the studio, some actors said it.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

@@Proud2bGreek1 You have no clue what went on, you're just jumping to whatever seems the most worthy of your outrage or cynicism. You fall into the predictable trap of blaming the director for everything, when there's never been a time where the director had less power in Hollywood than the post-Great Recession period. Arguably even less power than the apotheosis of the Hollywood system.

[@jenniferstaite2781]

Don't blame jackson for this, wb wanted money. That's why the split the movie. A director doesn't have total control over a movie, that's why extended version or so-called director cuts exists. The funny thing about this is that jackson did really good scenes in all this mess and if the studio didn't intefere like they did then the hobbit could've bern great and just two movies as pj wanted then to be.

[@gamble777888]

First Hobbit wasn't that bad. It wasn't great, but it didn't offend me like the next two. Would have worked so much better as a two part story.

[@TheschwartzB]

To go even further, Jackson wanted to make just one movie, not three. He didn't have control over that decision and that's part of why the trilogy ended up being so bad, aside from him being brought on last minute to direct, which caused many problems by itself. Jackson ended up having to pull material from things like the SIlmarillion in order to fill all the time he needed. The whole thing was drawn out way too long. I barely remember the second movie and never saw the third.

[@O.G.H.]

Stop defending Jackson. If he really cared, he could ask for more time, and refuse to work in this movie if they declined his request. But he wanted the dollars, that's why he signed up for this garbage.

[@rjlchristie]

Nah, Jackson turns everthing Tolkien into monster/creature movies and/or splatter films. He just can't help himself.

[@aloeveriea4633]

@@O.G.H. i think you overestimate how much power directors have. they are always on time crunches and there are rarely cases where they aren't being hammered by the studio.

[@felipe5211]

You forget to say that we have a dwarf who don't look like a dwarf so we can have a bayface on screen. That I believe was the most stupid part.

[@immydubby5789]

I was confused at first. Why are there good looking dwarves with trimmed beard? They don't look like dwarves at all

[@dancingderwish1067]

@@immydubby5789 those are metrosexual dwarves :D

[@JustAPrayer]

I agree I didn’t like that either. The king of dwarves is played by an actor who isn’t short and looks more like he belonges in Aragon’s race than in Gimli’s? That’s so stupid. Kili and Thorin should have been short and had goofy beards too. Especially since they shoehorned Legalas and his father into the movies so they already had a character bringing the fanservice, they didn’t need more.

[@matheuscaneta1194]

I understood that they were supposed to be all related and so that was a way to hint they were all related among dwarves who all look alive. But they had hands and feet of dwarves which wasn't that bad. they were just handsome dwarves.

[@ronin99942]

Why the hobbit sucks: Peter Jackson wasn't given much time, and was literally working 21 hours a day to make the damn movies after Guillermo Del Toro was removed (2 years had already passed when del toro was working on it) Man didnt have time to even prepare Imagine preparing your whole syllabus from scratch in a day before your exam tomorrow

[@benni1015]

Probably a cashgrab from the studio behind it. I heard the license was running out, so they had to make smth fast.

[@gryphon8023]

Well when you try to stretch one book that should be one movie into three movies yeah it’s gonna be garbage

[@Softpaw1996]

then perhaps he should have said no.

[@ggsay1687]

He could just say, no.

[@Bennahr_Fett]

Like nancy reagen "Just say No"

[@Bellatrix76]

Blame the studio for everything, including chasing off del Toro. Jackson didn't even want to direct this.

[@benjamincarmona5883]

And it shows. You just cant believe that the guy who directed this is the same that directed the masterpiece that the LotR trilogy is.

[@AL-hb1hw]

Sad but true, and an exhausted Jackson seemed more like he was an abused spouse to the studio than a director.

[@jesperburns]

@@AL-hb1hw Exhausted and downright depressed, he appears to have had a mental breakdown during the first few weeks of taking over filming at which point the second director just shot some filler content because everyone was already in costume and Peter had wandered off.

[@SkintSNIPER262]

Well, they had 3.5 years of pre production for LOTR, and only 3 months for The Hobbit. The Studio was rushing them. watch all the BTS for The Hobbit. Jackson seems so stressed and exhausted. Constantly thinking on the fly due to lack of time. He was forced to rely on a lot of post productions.

[@benjamincarmona5883]

@Khalid Ibn Alwaleed Ok

[@nodak81]

Always irritated me that the dwarves are all goofy-looking except for the two that have major parts, Thorin and Kili.

[@ianhayes3980]

i could be wrong but im pretty sure that i read some where that they dont look like the the others is because they are not 100 percent dwarf, filli and killi are part elf/elvish or what ever you want to call it and thorin is part human where as the other 10 dwarfs are 100 percent dwarf

[@BkSonic]

@@ianhayes3980 nope , there is no half elf-dwarf in all midle eartg history , they hated so much throughthe ages xd , and thorin fili and kili are from the house of durin , the most important dwarf house , so them are 100% pure dwarfs

[@Jonnell01]

@@ianhayes3980 I thought dwarves can't breed with the other races

[@waltonvelvet]

It irritated me that Thorin, Fili, Kili, etc. DIDN'T have larger beards and looked what you might deem "goofy". I like the designs of the more dwarf-ish ones far more.

[@Jonnell01]

@@waltonvelvet I think Thorin and Fili look fine, Kili's nose looks too elvish/human and not dwarvish tho and he should have some more beard but not every dwarf needs a very long beard. Just atleast a defined beard and a dwarf shaped nose

[@thecollector427]

The fact that PJ had so little time to prepare for these movies and somehow he still made them at least watchable just shows how great of a director he is.

[@morning8599]

The main problem for me with some dwarves is they are too handsome and good looking.

[@JustAPrayer]

I agree I didn’t like that either. The one dwarf who gets the girl and the one dwarf who’s king are both played by an actor who aren’t short and looks more like they belonges in Aragon’s race than in Gimli’s? That’s so stupid. Kili and Thorin should have been short and had goofy beards too. Especially since they shoehorned Legalas and his father into the movies so they already had a character bringing the fanservice, they didn’t need more.

[@morning8599]

@@JustAPrayer yeah Kili is so cute that he almost looks like an elf or human. I look at him and don't see a dwarf.

[@rabiyaashraf950]

@@morning8599 yep, Aiden Turner would make an excellent elf

[@tangofett4065]

I actually enjoyed the Hobbit trilogy. My biggest complaint though was the CG orcs over the practical fx and costumes of the LOTR orcs. Sometimes the CG orcs would take me right out of the scene 😕

[@98Dreadboy]

I think Peter Jackson would have loved to make practical orcs with actors he just didn't have enough time which is a shame.

[@benjamingrezik373]

these movies were made with a much smaller budget than the lord of the rings and thus the majority was spent on cgi

[@marmitaa8619]

I too enjoyed it expect for Tauriel. That crap belongs in the trash.

[@Carloszavalalol]

@@marmitaa8619 she was hot tho

[@marmitaa8619]

@@Carloszavalalol Ah yes. Let me judge her character by her appearance. This ain't Kim Kardashian or one of those whores who are famous by plastic surgery.

[@becki8000]

While this video is accurate, I do feel sorry for Peter Jackson who gets all the blame (Like at the start of this video)- it was the greedy studio who wrecked the Hobbit! If Jackson had argued against them or threatened to walk, well they'd made it perfectly clear they were willing to hire someone else. He stayed to try and do the best for the fans- yes he failed, but anyone would have.

[@madeline5138]

+Becki P Exactly, thank you.

[@sdaftermath123]

+Becki P i would have rather seen a 3 and a half, to 4 hour movie...maybe 2 parts tops, not 3 parts. and the dwarf part i totally agree with. We never got to know any of them except for thorin, and the old dwarf who was like thorins guidance. there was ZERO character development in this movie. this movie was a mess.

[@aspie182]

+Becki P Blah blah blah. Jackass deserves the blame because 1) he does not care, 2) he does not care, 3) he does not care, 4) he has an enormous bias towards characters, and that bias severely undercuts the dramatic tension of the film, 5) Jackass cannot take even the slightest criticism of himself… I could go on for days. By the way, describe Tauriel to me without saying what she looks like, or what her role/profession in the film is.

[@firetori72]

+sdaftermath123 Originally Jackson only wanted to shoot two movies, but like Becki said, the studio put him in a bind and forced him to do three films - on top of that they demanded the Kili/Legolas/Tauriel love triangle thing :/ So yeah it's really not Jackson's fault, check out the behind the scenes on the Battle of the Five Armies, they explain it a bit in there.

[@aspie182]

+firetori72 I really do not know how to break this to you, but directors subvert pushy studios all of the time. Jackass could have written intelligent roles for Superman… I mean, Legolas, Tauriel, and Kili, even dropping tasty bits of dialogue for them to basically say to the audience “we’re only here because the studio wants us here”. Instead, he makes more than two dozen characters shallower than the piss stains I have left on concrete, and tries once again to make Elves the absolute ¡UBERMENSCH! of the story world. But yeah, it is all the studio’s fault.

[@adamcrookedsmile]

I was so bummed when Thorin's companions charged into the Battle of the Five Armies wearing ... their travel gear. In the book they go into Erebor's armoury and pick out all the best pieces of weaponry they could possibly find. In the book they were armed and armoured to the teeth, not wearing travel coats and funny hats. One of countless sins in The Hobbit films which were for the most part unenjoyable.

[@user-xx6vy9ri8p]

The even wore the armour on the wall but took it off...

[@daleogilvie3576]

That was the big disappointment for me. The dwarves, especially Thorin should have been such great fighters, but in the big fights they worked as well as Gondor armor in lotr.

[@raggo1955]

They had no time anything else this trilogy was rushed from the start after del toro dropped out.

[@adamcrookedsmile]

@@raggo1955 they had no time because they made it a trilogy.

[@adamcrookedsmile]

@@daleogilvie3576 yes the treatment they gave the Gondorian army in LOTR was aggravating. The catapult scenes were cool though.

[@TerminatorTheory]

*Ouch this hurts. I watched all three of The Hobbit movies at the theater with my dad and I loved them! I guess this movie isn't for everyone.*

[@ashleigh20_04]

Same I love them so much. They make me cry everytime. I seriously didn’t know they were hated it makes me sad

[@1eighty]

@@ashleigh20_04 The movies had their moments, it was the cgi that kinda ruined them but I like them anyways.

[@rolandb.1866]

@@1eighty how did the CGI ruin the films? Should they make armies and film it on a mountain?

[@rolandb.1866]

@Neil Deep bigger battles in lotr were made with CGI. But they used practical effects in smaller scenes. That would have been good in the hobbit too. CgI is overused in the hobbit and that's why it looks mediocre

[@user-li9bg3be3i]

It certainly not for those who actually read the book and loved the original characters and their interactions bc Jackson just threw them all to the window and created an expensive fanfic instead c:

[@chloe1-2-3-4-5]

Top dwarf tip: if their names sound phonetically similar, they're probably related :D

[@vodfives5555]

That's good advice there xD

[@headphonic8]

Chloe B same goes for hobbits. Ham and Sam Gamgee. Also the River folk. Sméagol and Déagol

[@chloe1-2-3-4-5]

Now that I think about it, it's pretty true of the Men in Middle Earth, too... Aragorn/Arathorn, etc. I reckon it was probably Tolkien making it easier for himself :P

[@thatfunkyduuude]

And if they look more like men than dwarfs, they're probably gonna die in the movies.

[@youtubecommenter2]

headphonic8 I don't want to be that guy, but I'm going to be anyways. Déagol and Sméagol weren't related.

[@aaryanbhardwaj40]

Oh God, that Orlando Bloom one caught me off guard!

[@Dustyholes]

The Delusionist And His Demons as I read this comment that exact part came up lolll

[@fatherlucid4995]

Wouldn’t mind seeing a remake that’s book accurate.

[@scottbilger9294]

Watch the Rankin-Bass Cartoon.

[@malibutaa]

Same for LOTR, even though I love that trilogy

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

@@malibutaa I don't think you could make much better movies about the lord of the rings, thant there already are. you could make them more accurate to the books, but that would make them almost certainly much worse movies. you could make a multiple season tv show, that could work. but the movies are imo a very good adaption. they did leave stuff out, but they didn't fuck with the lore like for example the middle-earth games or the hobbit movies do

[@malibutaa]

@@HeavyMetalGamingHD I agree that the LOTR are great. I wouldn’t have minded seeing the nameless things in the deeps of Khazer Dum, Gildor (even though we got something close to it in the extended), the pitch black shot of the flying Nazgul that Legolas took from the other side of the Nimrodel or hell, maybe even seeing Tom Bombadil. The best way to do this would be as you said, a series, but I feel like they’d mess that up.

[@JMRabil675]

Its almost impossible to adapt the books perfectly unfortunately. They would be like 6 hours each. Stuff has to get cut out, and of course the slimy producers add stuff to make it more "hollywood friendly"

[@TheFish711]

I still have good memories of seeing each one in theaters. I can recognize the issues but I still love these movies regardless.

[@gekkeplayer8682]

same

[@willster17yt]

Me too

[@SlapStyleAnims]

Same

[@hanshotfirst1138]

To be fair, it's not like Tolkien gives them a ton of different personalities in the novel either.

[@npsck1802]

hanshotfirst1138 But the novel was like 300 pages, this is a triology

[@kirisuta8496]

Because it's a short story for kids. That's why all their names sound silly and similar, he wrote it for children after having told it to his own.

[@sleepysera]

That, pretty much. I mean, I still think that if you have more screen time at hand than it takes to read the entire book, you SHOULD expand on their character, but aside from Balin, Bombur, Thorin and maaaybe Fili and Kili, the other dwarves were rarely even brought up by name again after their introduction at the very start. So it's not like the filmmakers had a lot to work with in terms of base material.

[@npsck1802]

HaichaoTeaLover No, but they already changed other things, so why couldn't they change more? You don't even have to give all of them a backstory, but you have to give se viewers *something* in order to make them feel for the characters.

[@LesterBrunt1983]

But why is it even needed? Bilbo goes on an adventure with 13 Dwarfes to take back their mountain. Do you really need to know every single dwarf's background? The story is more about a group, a company, who go through all kinds of troubles and struggles. The background of each member is not that important to the overal story.

[@breakfastmachinearchive8]

A lot of this criticism is spot-on, but unnecessarily harsh on Peter Jackson. Jackson, and really almost everyone involved in the pre-production and production of the Hobbit movies, pretty much admitted a while back that the whole thing was a clusterfuck from the start, the studio didn't give them nearly enough time to get everything planned out so they had to make everything up as they went, and none of them had a good time overall, in contrast to the warm, fuzzy memories of the making of the LOTR movies. The movies suck, but blame the studio, not Jackson.

[@kingdolani]

Yes, and I think Jackson only directed the Hobbit movies because he didn't want a newcomer to ruin the Tolkien/Lotr franchise. He did the best with what he had.

[@harrydrake4173]

+PDolan So, like Lucas, he had the temerity to think that only he was worthy to direct the prequels? I wish we had got to see Guillermo del Toro's interpretation.

[@imyoubutbalder]

+Harry Drake Del Toro left the project willingly very shortly before the film was slated to begin production. Peter Jackson came back on board after Del Toro left. Jackson only had a few weeks of pre production as opposed to Del Toro's almost 2 1/2 years. It wasn't cause he felt only he was worthy, but because he didn't really have a choice.

[@suckahtubeyew1821]

+Sean Gentry Yeah like he accurately says in the video: The Hobbit was a fairytale not an epic trilogy(his admission to the studio's doing); he probably should've started the video with that line instead of the Jackson bash to avoid repetitive threads like this one.

[@21nickik]

Peter Jackson could and should have left and kept his integrity. Then the studio would have to deal with two directors walking and the fans would have known what the studio is doing. Ruining the franchise himself was not the right solution.

[@thecustomizer2008]

When you realize that Frodo spent less time with the Warriors 3 and Merry and Pipin than Bilbo does with the 13 dwarves. But you feel like they have more chemestry in 1 movie than bilbo had in 3 movies

[@DeepikaGinger]

That’s because they forgot that the series was supposed to be about Bilbo, and instead made it about Thorin, and made Bilbo’s arc mainly about his relationship with Thorin (and the Ring).

[@BrandonSmith-mj9nf]

Frodo and Legolas never acknowledge each other in any way throughout all 3 movies.

[@Oscareuh]

7:15 There is a payoff in the extended editions. They should have kept it in the theatrical cut. It's in the third movie. Bilbo is about to leave Erebor but pretends that he isn't and Bofur sees right through him and says: "Goodbye Bilbo".

[@matheuscaneta1194]

not only that, he's the one to tell Bilbo when he could leave and pass unoticed, cause the next guy who would be on watch guard was a heavy sleeper

[@kubla9834]

For some reason I find the ending of the hobbit really sad because I knew that would possibly be the last middle earth movie in a long time.

[@mrsilikeeggs]

And not only that, it's a shit and boring movie that finishes it off. It went from three great ones, to two okay watchable ones, to one boring and mediocre one. :(

[@kubla9834]

sucks it ended like that :(

[@morinor1340]

Ygdzfuijksalpapsw94th032q-widk9 98 sucks it even started

[@morinor1340]

ok, dont take my previous comment to seriously. the lotr movies were good movies, but even there some stuff was depicted wrong, made not epic enough or over dramatized. i mean, seriously, why is sauron a burning eyeball? or where is the great darkness sauron brought over the west(in the movie, the battle on the pelenor looks like a bit clouded, but otherwise normal daylight)? why does frodo has to be stabbed by a troll instead of an orc? and why do we have always perfect view on a castle that is supposed to always be covered in magical shadows and smoke from a nearby volcano?

[@bennettfender1546]

Morinor what's wrong with small changes Jurassic park did it jaws did it I could go on the point is you Tolkien fans have to stop complaining don't get me wrong I adore Tolkien's story's but they have to be changes because it is an adaptation that simple they don't get any special treatment.

[@lizardperson9648]

"Why would you wear a hat in battle instead of helmet" Cause it is an ushanka! It gives you the power of kommunism.

[@tommymack3210]

Jurchen Chan Makes no sense

[@tommymack3210]

Jurchen Chan Why do I need the power of a flaud system?

[@squamish4244]

It looks like a Russian hat, is the joke.

[@JoinMeInDeathBaby]

@Car-Men "yet"😂

[@dragonguard9998]

@Car-Men You must be fun at parties.

[@Rekken200]

Warner's fault, NOT Jackson's.

[@OMagela]

.

[@Bennahr_Fett]

BOO

[@StarMarine1084]

Warner is quite good at ruining things aren't they?

[@xzxblue090uwu4]

@@StarMarine1084 yep. Just look at justice league In 2017.

[@Shadowkey392]

Actually it was Jackson’s fault, as Warner Bros gave him complete creative control.

[@Wmei64]

I don’t care what anyone says, I will always love all the 6 films

[@RealNTAF]

me too, could be worse...the hobbit trilogy is so much better than the star wars sequel train wreck trilogy

[@mjl11]

@@RealNTAF the sequels are pretty good... Said no smart person ever, they're just birdshit.

[@annoyingkid360theannoying7]

same i will always love the movies

[@PrinceKenway]

@@RealNTAF it's even better than the prequel trilogy of SW to be fair. With The new Planet Of The Apes I think is best PREQUEL trilogy of all time.

[@ceratedsign4825]

@@PrinceKenway i think these chsnnels are unknowingly hsrd on the film directors A Lot, ask anyone if they wanted to watch the hobbit snd they wont pull a funny face and go ew worst film of all time never, they focus a lot on the negatives and hwve noncontrast to thenpositives so comes across ws if they hate the film sll together, as well as the title calling it s "failure" lol but its just there are some things about the films, that they dont do xyz 100% or even close to a good stsndard of the other, action snd visuals and the feneral gist of the film is stunning, but the chsr development a lil meh, still an amazing fil.

[@jpb6564]

I still enjoyed the movies even if they weren't perfect

[@kesty9019]

yeah not everything has to be perfect

[@Silent_Shadow]

Yes

[@brodericksiz625]

JPB man I envy you: I slept through about half of the first movie (I almost never sleep through movies, regardless of how tired I am atm) and never felt like watching the other two, based on how boring I found the first. I just didn't care. Which saddens me a bit, since I really really like the source material as well as the TLOTR movie adaptation. I wish I could have enjoyed it despite its flaws, like you, instead I just found it profoundly boring and uninteresting.

[@chatteyj]

@@brodericksiz625 Splitting a small book into three movies was always going to be a disaster, especially in todays climate of cgi, lack of emphasis on character development and plot coherency.

[@Lazslo_L]

@@brodericksiz625 You should give it another chance bro

[@johnstag2030]

The Dwarves are also too handsome. Dwarves are "unlovely" in Tolkien's own words.

[@hieratics]

And they of course had to make the handsome dwarf falling in love with a she-elf in that stupid filler plot

[@clan21clan76]

If your biggest concern is they are too good looking that is cool.

[@michaelscott-joynt3215]

@@clan21clan76 No one said it was of greatest concern, it's just an observation. When you rationalize this with the comment above, about the love story, you can do this magical thing where you detect a pattern in the film's production, which is a clue as to why these films feel uninspiring, inconsistent, and unlovable. The evidence is everywhere that this trilogy was about money rather than efficacy, unlike LOTR.

[@clan21clan76]

@@michaelscott-joynt3215 everyone sees movies differently. I see both trilogies as good, but others may not see it that way. I think if they made only one movie people will complain that they rushed through it and didn't tell the story. The same thing happens to the old dark crystal. They tried to fit it all in a 2 hr span and there was no back story.

[@timothylongmore7325]

@@michaelscott-joynt3215 That's for sure. I think they could have been true to Tolkiens story and still made a trilogy. Perhaps shorter on eah episode. The hobbit had a magical feel to it that moved right along with action. This was totally lost. Fortunately this story can still be made into a great movie. Probably never happen. I waited almost 60 years for this version.

[@Drigo924]

Not all the dwarves were really super fleshed out in the book either but with so much time I was hoping they would go way more in depth with each of them.

[@alilarhdiri9666]

They showed us that Dwalin was also fighting along side Thorin the first time they met Azog, so that may say they're close brothers in arms

[@violetlavi2207]

true but that isn't really drawn to attention the way his scenes with Balin are

[@ElProf]

7:14 There was KIND OF a payoff to that, although it came much, much later. Bofur is the one who catches Bilbo when he's [OBLIGATORY SPOILER FOR THE THIRD MOVIE] sneaking out of Erebor to give the arkenstone to Thranduil and they have another, in my opinion significant, conversation where Bofur thinks Bilbo is leaving again and he essentially tells him "It's okay to leave, I understand." You know what? Bofur is a chill guy. I've decided that I like him.

[@ElProf]

I would argue that some dwarves actually are memorable. Thorin, for obvious reasons. Balin because he does seem like the second in command. Kili because he's the most human-looking of the lot and his interactions with Tauriel. Dwalin and Bombur because of their looks. Fili after it's mentioned that he would be king someday. Bofur because of his little, but memorable, interactions with Bilbo. The rest of the lot, though? I have no idea who Óin, Gloin, Dori, Nori, Ori, and Bifur are. Only other dwarf that stood out to me was the one with the horn, who I just discovered is Óin and would never have been able to pick out of a lineup of dwarves if he didn't have his horn with him.

[@NotFlappy12]

@@ElProf totally true. One more thing though: Gloin is Gimli's father, and looks a little bit like him too

[@somniator3205]

@@ElProf In fact they had a difficult task. In the book it's totally fine to have 13 characters with only four to five being constantly active. But in a movie this doesn't work. So they had to add quirks and trademarks to each dwarf. Thorin is well written in the book and in my opinion, Armitage nailed it. Balin is the voice of reason, Dwalin a battlescarred hotshot warrior who resembles traditional dwarven characteristics (secretive, mistrusting, aggressive), Dori is a fussy dwarf (just look at his hairdo) and acts as a overcaring motherly character to Ori, who is young and naive (there are several scenes where Dori treats Ori like a child like the scene with the lunch in Rivendell). Nori is a thief and slightly vain. Oin is, apart from being old and nearly deaf, the medic of the group (they even joked on set, that Oin coined the word ointment), while Gloin is, apart from being Gimlis father, a banker. He's the one taking care of the troll gold and it's his money they need to pay Bard when entering Laketown. Bofur, as you correctly pointed out, is Bilbo's (and the audience's) access to the dwarven group (you could say the most human dwarf). Bofur's trademark is the axe in his head, which let's him speak only ancient dwarvish and Bombur is the comic relief character. Fili and Kili are Thorin's nephews and therefor kind of royal, but also a dangerous mixture of eagerness and inexperienced. Considering the amount (or rather lack) of details Professor Tolkien gave us concerning most of the dwarves (except for Thorin, Balin, Dori, Bombur, Fili and Kili, all we know from the books about the dwarves are the colours of their hoods and beards) these appear to be quite well thought through characters.

[@postmodernprophet3491]

It's not in the theatrical version. I had to search for the scene. That means, not good story telling.

[@merearihipipi-takoko5867]

I hate

[@PaganMinn]

the hobbit films were great fantasy flicks and i enjoyed seeing different parts of middle earth. it was no lord of the rings but it sure as hell isnt nearly as terrible as people make it out to be.

[@SunnyLovetts]

damn straight, some people just love hopping on the hate train because others are aboard it...

[@fawnieee]

@@SunnyLovetts my issues are just the lore tbh, (and I know LOTR isnt perfect but there are important references to history). And just Tauriel, she's an abomination, only one family in all races of elves have red hair and she's certainly not related to them, she's 600 years old but and is a baby but her hair is longer than not only Arwens ... But Galadriels too?? The elf that is OLDER THAN THE MOON? Also, it would be impossible for an elf and dwarf to be in love, it is just physically impossible and historically there's a good reason elves and dwarves hate one another... But it is impossible. It also just completely ruins the important of Gimli's and Leggys friendship. I'm also just tired of Hollywood's fake "yey pro woman movement!" (While they hire pedophiles and rapists who are convicted all the time) and just write in pathetic, same old, perfect Mary sue female characters who are "omg I'm a rebel and I fell in love with the people my people hate" nonsense, and that a female forced written in always is a love interest. It's exhausting. Like women are real humans guys you don't have to only write perfect inhuman beings for women, trust me, we want variation, we're not gonna be insulted if you mix it up a bit. 🙄 Other than that I did enjoy it, Smaug was something to behold and was just something so damn good. I've never seen such a beautiful dragon that's so idk... Enrapturing? But terrifying at the same time. Smaug was just God damn beautiful and perfection.

[@magmamelon7621]

@@fawnieee I agree. I loved the movies as a whole and I think that while not as good as LOTR they are still amazing films. However, Tauriel spoilt it for me. It felt to me that, like you said, the character of Tauriel just felt forced because they wanted a female character. The lore is really annoying too. Although I did like most of the Dol Guldur stuff (I felt the Ringwraiths were slightly off, but that's just my preference). However, I think there is one character who is miles worse than Tauriel - that's Radagast. He is a Maiar, a regal being of Valinor. And they make him seem more like a drug addict and give him a hat with bird poop on. I think that is far worse than Tauriel (granted she is bad too though). There were also other parts of his character that were so out of place for the lunatic they were portraying him as. Seriously, a drug addict can hold off the Witch King of Angmar? I love the Hobbit movies. They are really great in my opinion 75% of the time. But the other 25% is some of the worst 25% that ever existed in Middle-Earth.

[@CosmixxSlopShop]

Facts

[@hyperfire1134]

Angel Adriel cough, the last of us 2

[@BDTPBO]

I remember being angry at how drawn out these movies were. I paid to see all of them but got more and more upset with each one with how terrible they were.

[@AlphaCentauri24]

I keep rewatching these 7 video essays repeatedly. It is as much an education in scripting as it is a criticism of The Hobbit trilogy.

[@CEWThree]

The problem with the dwarves is that they're all together, all the time, and there are 13 of them. The party includes 15 people with Bilbo and Gandalf. In Lord of the Rings, the Fellowship starts out as 9, although all but three of them are introduced gradually on the way to Rivendell. We get to know the party one bit at a time. And then, by the end of Fellowship, there are only 7, and they're split off into 3 separate groups. This allows for more one on one conversations and examinations of small group dynamics. Plus, they all have their own character arcs (Frodo with the Ring, Sam and his stabilizing love of the Shire, Boromir wanting to restore honor to Gondor, Aragorn's struggle with the mantle of kingship). In The Hobbit, both the book and the films, EVERYONE has the same goal, and they're all working towards it together basically all the time (by the way, I think this is why Jackson and co. split the party in the last act of Desolation of Smaug). There isn't time for one on one conversations because every chat is a group chat, the group is half again the size of the Fellowship, and the movies are SHORTER (by this, I mean the Extended Editions are shorter than the Lord of the Rings theatrical editions). Maybe if Jackson had been given another year or two, he could have either cracked this problem by taking further adaptational liberties or shrunk the script down and made the decision not to give the dwarves beefy characterization.

[@Itoyokofan]

@Charmiskit Well, then you could leave Bilbo off, because gnomes won't need him for the lucky number.

[@eannacarr9630]

Anyone else really like the first hobbit?

[@alexnorth3393]

Yes and number 2.

[@dbodooley]

I loved it so much.

[@kimmson6356]

Yes i do

[@blueskybelyr]

Eanna Carr Oh I absolutely loved it. Which is why the second movie was disappointing, and the third one was a sucker punch. Everything the dude says in the video is spot on. No pay-off whatsoever.

[@rixx1269]

All of them

[@PotatoJonson]

The dwarves were literally over-designed. They ended up looking artificial and therefore hard to care about.

[@christg989]

The entire trilogy looked artificial. I hated the look tbh. LOTR seemed so believable due to its style and smart use of effects.

[@diedawachtel4689]

@@christg989 Yep, for me, it looked so plastic-like, too much CGI...

[@avirex1040]

In the extended version of the 3rd movie, after Bilbo found the Ring, he left Erebor with a rope. Bofur was there as a guard, but let Bilbo go. Bilbo then said he will be back. Very good scene in my opinion. Sorry for my English.

[@GangStalker17]

I think youre putting too much on to Jackson, if im not mistaken, i believe he was a last minute addition after Del Torro left and I dont think it was his decision to split the book up as they did You made some good points however.

[@TKDLION]

He was a last minute addition as director, but he was already closely involved as producer.

[@DiePieCLOCK]

TKDLION producer doesn't necessarily result in a good film. or have any part of creating/making the stories and storylines

[@duggiedug9148]

Average Human I remember watching the making of on KZbin years before the first movie came out. A blog Peter Jackson made. Anyway, in that blog and I think right before the first one was released, the decision was made. They decided to split the last two movies after the first was released possibly, not sure exactly when. Can’t remember the reasons why either

[@Kaiyanwang82]

This doesn't explain crap like the bunny sled or Alfrid

[@dion789]

I really enjoy the Hobbit movies, especially 1 and 2. But I agree with most of your criticism on it. Contrary to popular belief, it's possble to enjoy a movie while still recognizing it's faults. Despite that, there are a lot of things about the movies that I think are beautifully done that also deserve recognizion. Blind hate is just stupid.

[@geneparmesan8748]

Dion7 I think most of the disappointment toward these movies comes from the fact that most of what makes them good was done better in the originals, or at least was borrowed heavily from the originals. As far as things that were honestly good in these movies that were totally absent in the originals, all that's here is: 1.) the dwarf costume designs . Tragically not paid off, because the movie doesn't give us dwarf characters. 2.) the Misty Mountains song, though any version of the Hobbit would use a Hans Zimmer score so I'm being generous by adding this. 3.) Benedict Cumberbatch as Smaug and Martin Freeman as Bilbo. Everything else I can think of was either already done in LOTR, or at least derived in some way from LOTR. Have I missed things you liked?

[@sleepysera]

1 and 2 were fun movies. Yes, they had their own little flaws and some over the top ridiculousness, but but they were about a silly rather spontaneous adventure and it was a joy to finally see a book I love on the big screen WITHOUT having everything cut out that I love about the book to focus hundreds of pages into 2 hours of film. And because we knew there was a 3rd movie still in the making, loose story threads or scenes that felt like a set-up for later were still fine, because "surely, they'll all pay off in the end". But that never happened. I know it's maybe unfair to blame it all on the final movie, but at least for me it felt like you can get away with a lot as long as you all resolve it well, and that's where they really fell short.

[@defaultuser9423]

Whatever is done well can be attributed to Tolkien's genius story than to the filmmakers' merit. Well not all of it. The movie did have its positives.

[@moldycarrot9267]

''Contrary to popular belief, it's possble to enjoy a movie while still recognizing it's faults.'' I have to disagree here. These movies are riddled with so many faults and lost opportunities, that I cannot overlook them. But maybe there's something in the movies for you that just isn't there for me. And maybe you adapted the silly-movie-mindless-entertainment mindset going into it which frankly only goes for a specific type of film (i.e pacific rim)

[@kylieroxas8096]

I agree :)

[@retrospect6904]

Peter himself admitted that he winged it. Producers and studios did not give him nearly enough prep time. Most of the scenes didn't even have story boards and was mostly running off of his experiences. Look at some of the behind the scenes and compare them to LOTR behind the scenes. Everybody is drained and not having as much fun.

[@samsam2235]

I wanna be honest: just seeing Gandalf again made me a happy man.

[@jesse_cole]

The varied look of the dwarves was my beef as well. Some of them look like an homage to the late-seventies classic cartoon... and then there's the ones who look like "sexy dwarves," who might as well be a different species. It's the most pointless and inconsistent thing they could possibly have done.

[@gittevandevelde2208]

Like there is a lot of variety in humans, there may be also a lot of variety in dwarves? I remember when, watching it, I wasn't like: "Oh, these all look different! This is weird! Genetic variety!" instead I was like: "Oh, that dwarf is ugly. That dwarf is hot. Guess not all dwarves win the genetic lottery"

[@LordVader1094]

@@gittevandevelde2208 That's not the case in LotR though. LotR is Fantasy, it's not supposed to have genetic variety in dwarves and elves.

[@gittevandevelde2208]

@@LordVader1094 Well, it was never actually made clear that dwarves and elves all should look the same. In the films, none of the races do. Their are ugly humans and good-looking humans. Ugly hobbits and good-looking hobbits. Ugly elves and...You get the point. Of course, there are generally less 'ugly' elves than ugly dwarves, but that's also relative. Some of the handsome dwarves have the same uglynesslevel than ugly elves and for me personally, it just really doesn't bother me because I like variety and at least it helps me differ between the characters, which can be difficult when they all have the same generic bland look.

[@nemou4985]

@@gittevandevelde2208 However some dwarves LOOK like humans (the "hot" ones) and some just don't. That doesn't make sense. A different species would havce a different standard for attractiveness. Considering female dwarves are bearded...

[@zasmal9413]

There are 'clan' differences (firebeards etc) between the dwarves and this lends to different physicalities. Half of the company are cousins and longbeards, whereas Bifur, Bofur and Bombur are completely separate. For fans, these differences make sense and add to the lore they are familiar with. The same is true of elves (silvan, sindarin etc that have specific looks to them).

[@josephhamrick9501]

I got a ton more out of the films than you did I guess. Watching them all six in two days is simply so beautiful.

[@701delbronx8]

Same, I love these movies

[@c17sam90]

A lot of this stuff is in the film but in the extended cuts

[@bilalkhares9337]

Honestly the scene with Thorin would have been so much better with Balin, especially after what he says to Bilbo about 'there's one I could call King'

[@TheSilverPhoenix100]

I really think before you go around blaming Peter Jackson maybe actually look where the blame lies. First of Warner Bros wanted a 3 part movie for a book that was shorter than any of the 3 books that made the Lord of the Rings. Peter filled time by using actual things that were alluded to in Lord of the Rings (the battle with Sauron and the White council plotline) however Warner Bros had them create the female elf and expand on her relationship with Kili...which was stupid. Also you compalin about the dwarves but frankly what you see is what you get from them as Tolkien never flushed them out or gave them personalities, hell id go so far as to say Jackson did a much better job with this. All in all I have to say this isnt a good review as its obvious you either havent read the books or dont really remember them

[@Commander_Shepard.]

He aleady mentioned in vid that if it was just a fairy tale 2 hour long movie he wouldn't have cared about each individual dwarf. Just like THE ONE book it's based off. But this is an LOTR level epic movie trilogy.

[@livingonamar]

Jackson decided to make them 3 movies. He didn't ask for more time and kinda just made it as production went along. All the problems are directly from Jacksons decisions. "People think it's a cold-blooded cash grab from the studio, and no it didn't come from the studio at all," Jackson details, "It came from Fran, Philipa, and I." That's his own words Source if you dont believe me: www.cinemablend.com/new/Peter-Jackson-Explains-Where-Hobbit-Would-Have-Been-Split-Two-Movies-40721.html

[@ianw.5047]

he's only taking about the movie. So the white council was really confusing for we before i read the book. Its useless to "The Hobbit" because its THE HOBBIT not THE HOBBIT AND SAURON FORESHADOWING. Peter even said he didn't was to direct it because it was emotional hard for him to compete with his own movies.

[@IcyDeath91]

FantasticLog how was the white council part confusing? They even added the high fells of rhudaur scene to connect the dots for everybody. That scene wasn't canon but helped the story for poeple who hadn't read the books.

[@seanm81416]

I still enjoyed the trilogy. It may not have been as great as it could have been but still a good experience in my humble opinion.

[@charlieslawnik3284]

I think a lot of the imperfections of the movie are made up for by how perfect Martin Freeman’s performance is

[@ferretmom4ever858]

Don’t blame Tolkien, none of this was in the book!

[@RealNTAF]

not true, much of it was in the book. except for legolas, turiel, the fighting at dol guldor, and the actual battle of the five armies.

[@nochannelmusician769]

There was not much character development with the dwarves in the books at all so at least PJ tried to put something substantive there, even if the result was extremely rushed

[@alexanderrobertson2950]

Not being snippy, just pointing out, Dwalin was also in the prolog fight at Moria. He just has more hair on his head during it so you can’t really recognise him. Totally agreeing with your point though, lol

[@stephanielorraine1898]

Yes and he hug balin after the fight

[@Cory_Dora]

Yeah, Peter Jackson didnt even want to do these films. How different it could have been if the original concept been kept.

[@andreboy1]

Then he shouldn't have been involved at all if he didn't want to do them.

[@raggo1955]

He probably did it for the money and being sentimental for the material with the cast.

[@manfrombritain6816]

But every time i watch the dwarves fight the orcs and thorin takes up the branch i still get goosebumps

[@mainstreetsaint36]

The Dwarves get more character development in the extended editions. Most notably is that Bifur loses his axe bit in his head and tells them where they could stick it.

[@Horny_Fruit_Flies]

I still really liked the movies, even with the obvious flaws, it had many entertaining parts to it that I could appreciate. I really agree about the dwarves being ccompletely forgettable, though.. They could have scrapped those ham-fisted romance scenes, and kicked out Legolas for more screen time with the dwarves. I mean, they were the CORE part of the book, right?

[@XandriaRavenheart]

I loved the movies and the book too...But sadly, I couldn't even remember Thorin after I read the book...I guess there really isn't a lot of source material for Jackson to drag into three movies. They should've at least asked Christopher Tolkien for something more on the dwarves...

[@MeldinX2]

Yep but that's why he should have made it into 1 or 2 movies only at maximum. I mean the lord of the rings HAS 3 books that are ALOT longer than Bilbo that is one kinda short book. So it made sense to make LOTR into 3 movies. It make no sense to have 3 almost 3 hour long films based on a 300 pages long book. And they diden't even follow the book that closely and changed alot of thing and added alot of flashy action scenes. If they can do that then why not instead make better character development? This said though i did really enjoy the films. I thought they did do alot of things really well even though The lord of the rings trilogy is alot better.

[@FadeToBlack740]

Horny Fruit Flies agree. I loved the movies

[@JohnDoe-fv3vs]

I can barely stomach to watch it, Tolkien would have rolled over in his grave if he knew how it turned out.

[@henkkamatikaine2808]

Hobbits don't suck, It's just that they don't go by the book as much as lotr did, so HC lotr fans are mad about this. But as movies they are great. Great acting and also great visually. Maybe little less "serious" than lotr movies were and thus, not as touching. But to say they suck, is exaggerating imo.

[@Sinnbad21]

This trilogy just felt kinda goofy. It didn’t have the mystery the original 3 did. Like right off the bat of the Fellowship there is the creepy yet memorable theme music playing while Galadriel is explaining in her creepy yet soothing voice about the dissemination of the rings. There was a sort of dark mystery to the original trilogy. But this trilogy felt very Disney to me. I still enjoyed it though

[@pinkfreud62]

I never seen the Hobbit trilogy, but I love LotR. That's how I always assumed the Hobbit was, though. More light hearted even though it would have it's moments. LotR was more mysterious and ominous because of the whole story itself.

[@maazahmedpoke]

Thats because it's an adaptation of the hobbit not lotr, so of course its going to be different. The hobbit was written as a story for kids while lotr was written for a slightly older audience. I swear to god it feels like he didnt even read either series and is shitting on it just because it isnt lotr.

[@Sinnbad21]

@@maazahmedpoke i see what you are saying but it doesn’t really matter if they are different books. They both had hobbits but lotr didn’t have hobbits flipping around in barrels and doing crazy stuff. That’s what I’m talking about. Hope that makes sense. My point is they were set in the same world and close to the same time but one was somber and serious while the other was just goofy. I still really liked the movies though

[@maazahmedpoke]

@@Sinnbad21 Personally to me that sequence felt true to the source material in spirit since hobit is itself a fun comedic adventure story for kids. It isnt supposed to be super dark and serious 24/7.

[@Sinnbad21]

@@maazahmedpoke ah gotcha. Well it’s been ages since I’ve read it so I don’t remember it that well. But when you put it that way it makes a little more sense

[@kimnielsen8183]

I remember all the names from the fellowship of the ring, I watched that like 10 years ago. From the Hobbit, I can remember Smaug and Bilbo, I watched that a couple of months ago.

[@nickfitchner3218]

While I enjoyed this trilogy you definitely bring up some good points. Especially the whole dwalin, balin thing.

[@isaacjones748]

Thin? Possibly. Bad? Arguably. Doesn't explain why I keep watching it and enjoy it as much as the original trilogy. It's ironic but I think reading the books drew me so far into the magic of the setting and the story that I can overlook the Hobbit's problems just because I'm now such a fanboy and just want more LOTR content

[@PatkaBoy831]

shite

[@Blackhawk211]

the you sir, are exactly the reason we are getting half baked turds instead of more effort into these films like Lotr. A sheep is what you are

[@ben2560]

The Volcanic Masochist thats harsh... are you a sheep, cause you want more content? Are you going to be a rebel, wont achieve anything with it, but you are able to say: I stood up against the consuming society and didnt like hobbit movies! Being able to overlook bad things, making your life easier and enjoyable wont make you a sheep

[@Blackhawk211]

@@ben2560 You are not a sheep for liking it. But you are a sheep if you dont have a critical mind at all and just devour things without question. This is how we end up with lazy cashgrabs like the hobbit instead of actual passion projects like the lotr trilogy. Hobbit was one very short childrens story. It could and should have been 1 movie, or at most 2. But no WB had to milk every last penny out of Tolkiens name

[@theveganape]

I agree that the characterisation of the Dwarves was horribly mishandled. What's weird is that Peter Jackson nailed the characterisation of a large group in The Lord of the Rings trilogy. We know he can do it, but he just didn't.

[@gorzagh4297]

The Vegan Ape that's a bit easier since they already have some characterization built into their characters.

[@Pilusmagnus]

Also in LOTR the characters are introduced progressively. You meet Frodo, then Gandalf, then Sam, then Merry and Pippin, then Aragorn, then Legolas Gimli and Boromir. And that's only nine. In The Hobbit you're immediatly surrounded by 13 Dwarves plus Gandalf and the main character. Very hard to get us to know each of them then.

[@geneparmesan8748]

Pilusmagnus I know what you're saying, and that's a good point about lotr introducing them progressively vs the Hobbit dumping them all on us at once, but they still could have progressively gotten moments. Hell, Balin and Dwalin got good progressive introductions, before the other dwarves started showing up to the door in 3s and 4s.

[@kayest.claire932]

The huge character dump is meant more for comic effect. Like Bilbo we're supposed to feel a bit overwhelmed. I know what you mean though. I couldn't put a name to most of the faces in a lineup.

[@Korijenkins1414]

Another issue is that Jackson had waaaay less time to prepare when making the Hobbit trilogy, as he was not originally slated to be the director.

[@cleanserofnoobs4162]

"Before the dark times. Before Queer Theory."

[@lobsterthemobster2032]

I loved the book due to the interaction with the dwarves and Gandalf it made it feel more real

[@Mooseboy018]

Based on several interviews, it sounds like some of the dwarves (Fili and Bofur especially) were originally supposed to have much better payoff as characters. But for some reason they decided to completely abandon that in the last movie. Martin Freeman said they shot a scene with Bilbo and Bofur before Bilbo goes to give away the Arkenstone. It would have been similar to their scene together in AUJ. Hopefully stuff like this ends up in the extended edition. On another note, I think the point of having Dwalin being the one to confront Thorin was BECAUSE it was sort of unexpected. He was the tough yes-man that never seemed to have a problem with anything Thorin did. They could have certainly developed their relationship more, but I still think it meant more to have Dwalin be the one to tell Thorin that he's wrong. Balin was hesitant from the start, so having him help Thorin snap out of his madness may not have meant as much to the audience or Thorin by that point because it just would have been another scene of Balin being wise. By that point, Thorin had basically already heard all of Balin's criticisms and doubts. Someone with more unquestionable loyalty had to step up. It still could have worked well with Balin, but I think they actually made the right choice picking Dwalin.

[@JustWrite]

Mooseboy018 I didn't know that about the unused Bilbo/Bofur scene. I wonder why they cut it out? As far as the Balin/Dwalin debate goes, I do see what you mean that the unexpectedness of Dwalin criticizing Thorin may have been the reason they went that way. So perhaps it's not this scene that's the problem, but the lack of resolution when it comes to Balin. i.e. if had there been a Balin/Thorin scene, I may not have had as much of an issue with the Dwalin one.

[@RecklessDemonX]

Sage Rants They cut it out because they needed to shove some more scenes in there to appeal to the general audience... in the form of a dumbed down romance that has no substance or reason to exist whatsoever, and endless action scenes that seem like filler in order to keep the general audience satisfied, again. It absolutely baffles me how The Hobbit was handled. I quite liked the first film, mainly because I held high hopes for great stuff in the other two, thinking that those would end up being far better in the grand scheme of things, but then AUJ managed to end up being the one I liked best out of the three. It dragged on and on and on and the tone was inconsistent, but at least it had character moments. In the other two, character moments were lacking severely and the tone managed to stay inconsistent. Despicable. And then to think that it ended up being literally nothing like I and many others once expected - something at least a bit more akin to my all-time favorite movies, The Lord of the Rings. And that's not in the sense of being just as grand or epic but in the sense of how the source material would be handled. Wasted potential, this trilogy is, and I agree with all of your points from throughout the videos. Good job putting those together, I'd like to re-direct every single PJ apologist to them from now on.

[@IdaSantti]

Nathan H. Finally! Someone who also likes the first one, I thought I was the only one...

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

And as long as Hollywood thinks they have to appeal to "the general audiences" we'll keep having terrible movies. You either let a visionary director to realize their vision (Twin Peaks: The Return) or you make a movie for the fans (be faithful to the source material). If the director is good and their vision stands out, the movie will be a success. If the movie is properly made for fans (exactly what the new Inhumans series is NOT), these fans will bring the other audiences in, especially today with the Internet influencing people so much. I'm not saying David Lynch should have directed The Hobbit (god forbid!), but I'm saying that having less studio interference and allowing directors creative choices makes for better movies. This here is not entirely the case, as Jackson made some very poor choices. But then, that's the problem with many of Riddley Scott's films. Alien and Blade Runner scripts were not his idea and he just applied his brilliant directing skills to them. Prometheus and Covenant were his idea and they are two of the worst movies of all time above MST3K level.

[@powerofberzerker9487]

A lot of stuff that u said here is explained in extended edition and there is a many pay-offs regarding all the dwarves. Balin knew that Thorin went completely nuts and that he is only danger to other dwarves and they should keep away from him. He knew that Thorin have to fight this battle alone and win it, which his grand-father did not manage to accomplish! He made him stronger by letting him fight his own internal battle.

[@juancabardo21]

I actually liked The Hobbit. Legolas and Tauriel were definitely cool in the three films, and Bilbo’s adventure was fairly nice.

[@j.v.r.1981-]

Tauriel was a selfish, whiny brat. All that talk about fighting to save their world, while all she did was trying to find the dwarf she fell in love with ....

[@twisterman4184]

(Vampire hiss) Relax it's a joke 🙂

[@crookedbraincrookedbrain9874]

U dont deserve to have eyes

[@CorDharel]

I always wonder why people think that the people in the movies only talk to each other during screentime... I mean they travel for such a long time together do you really believe that all this time they are quiet and not talking to each other and only talk when you see them on screen?

[@CaptainFalkorm]

The problem with the Hobbit is, it's originally just a children book and making a children book into an epic movie trilogy doesn't make sense tone wise, which in turn makes the end product just awkward.

[@ryanwilliams4223]

I agree it made it look like a 2nd hand lord of the rings but worse,they films were good but they should of just made one film

[@JAF2991]

Hence, the movie is being called a cash grab for that reason.

[@-SayWhatAgainMF-]

@Shooting Star Damn I had no idea they almost went with Del Toro. Pan's Labyrinth is a perfect example of using fantasy elements without making it corny or ham fisted. I think Peter Jackson did a good job finding that balance with the LOTR trilogy, but I gotta say, some of the scenes in the Hobbit trilogy make me cringe or roll my eyes. I enjoyed them for the most part, but they kinda fall flat when compared to PJ's earlier work on LOTR.

[@Bayard1503]

Why not? considering it ends in a huge battle, that main characters die it could have worked if done correctly.

[@adamschaeffer1436]

Children's book? What like Curious George and Peppa Pig? What in the fucking holy hell is wrong with you for calling a 287 page, single spaced, 12 point font book filled with poetry and song, and zero pictures... a children's book! Wipe your runny, snowflake nose on the Harry Potter trash, but leave Tolkien out of it!!!

[@knessing7681]

you forgot that Dwalin was at the battle of Moria with Balin and Thorin in the after battle in that flash back. Dwalin is presented as a brother in arms type of character ... so yes it makes sense Dwalin would be close to Thorin.

[@MHScrat]

@Shahan Abidi There ARE a fair number of scenes where Dwalin and Thorin are off having conversations together, or sharing looks, or where Dwalin is saving Thorin. I never thought twice about the scene with Dwalin in the mountain.

[@samanthab9927]

The hobbit was a great story. I was 12 when I got it to read on summer break. It was the perfect intro to the world. SO WTF WAS THE MOVIE!?

[@lesleygiles8924]

The absolute worst thing I found was that Balin needed Thorin to identify the arrival of Smaug! Surely he should have known the signs for himself.

[@sareth90]

the dwarves are mentioned all together in the book, except for Balin and Fili and Kili so is logical not to create a narrative background for each of them.

[@tabmail6988]

Fili and kili are the sons of his sister, and it's mentioned in the novel when he comes to lake town

[@alegria1813]

Finally someone who fucking read the book

[@Shokwave8]

I‘m with you! Everybody cries about Legolas and Tauriel who were not mentioned in the book but then argue that the dwarfs need a backgroundstory that the book doesn‘t present. Thats just....

[@F5Metal]

Nemo Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.

[@qwertyTRiG]

@@Shokwave8 Well, if they're going to add something, it would be nice if they added something that made sense and actually contributed.

[@jasperlane591]

I do agree that we should have seen more of the dwarfs, but in Peter Jackson's defense the dwarfs in the book don't leave an impression on you either, having said that I would rather Peter Jackson make up characteristics then force a forbidden love between a dwarf and an elf.

[@dfhwze]

While in real life that elf made sweet love to one of the hobbits of LotR, crazy as sh** right !?

[@NevetsTSmith]

I'd agree. Aside from Thorin, the dwarves as a group are basically a single character.

[@Beevenhouse]

And we know that Peter Jackson does have this ability to make characters more interresting than they are in the books. Aragorn, for example, is much more of an interresting character in the films than he is in the books.

[@86upsmaya]

Jasper Lane they could have at least given them proper beards,how beards were important to dwarves. Their greeting was May your beard grow..

[@zachindes]

The Balin counter had me dying, something I didn't realize until you pointed it out and now I'm shaking my head

[@Nathan-rt5vj]

I watched the first one and couldn't bring myself to watch the next two. Maybe one day.

[@JedoDre]

Ah, the first 1.5 of the 3 movies was ok.

[@bouchandre]

It was not the fault of Peter Jackson, but the studio.

[@TKDLION]

I blame Peter Jackson 80%, the studio 20%.

[@agamer1016]

TKDLION I understand you're allowed an opinion but honestly, that's just plain stupid.

[@TKDLION]

Is it really? Is artistic integrity stupid? When someone signs on as the director of a movie they assume responsibility for that movie. This wasn't some first time director or anything. If they studio was pressuring him to include terrible ideas - like the Kili/Tauriel romance - he should have said no. If he threatened to leave the movie the studio probably would have relented. If not, he should have resigned. Besides, Jackson made some really bad decisions completely unrelated to studio influence.

[@MH-ql4nh]

Well, from what I understood, he was obliged to return to pick up the pieces after Guillermo del Toro left midway. Peter Jackson had a lot of people to answer to and he was desperate to make it work. Basically the dude was just miserable the whole time, so yeah, I don't blame him.

[@MrYouarethecancer]

It was a trilogy before Jackson even signed on, dude. he was hired to clean up Del Toros shit show.

[@ChocolateisIsNice]

You make a good point about how it should have been Dwarlin in the third film. I hadn't thought of that before but you're right.

[@justinblackfacetrudeau8943]

dude this vid is exactly what i was looking for! haha!

[@famousamos]

Hmm this got me thinking. I just realized that the other dwarves didnt show their background story or let their character develop as fully

[@sackthebastard]

Because they didn't get background in the book

[@rolandb.1866]

@@sackthebastard but they have developed more in the book

[@kroneexe]

@@rolandb.1866 There is no "books" there is only one single book, and it's a tale for children.

[@noahmedina5556]

@@rolandb.1866 Not really, I just finished the book 5 hours ago for the second time and I can only think of 3 (Thorin, Balin, and Bomber.) dwarves that stood out and did something the entire 276 page copy that I have. The others are just there and don't do anything for the most part and don't really grow unlike in the movie, most of the dwarves at least do something or have a moment, while in the book most of them don't. You only remember who Fili and Kili are because they died along with Thorin and were related to him.

[@rolandb.1866]

@@noahmedina5556 yeah, you are right When I wrote my comment I didn't really know much about the book. I wrote my opinion with literally no information about the book whatsoever.

[@kaylubproductions4517]

How to fix the movies: 1) Make two movies, not three 2) Write better and more enjoyable characters 3) Just make the movies like the book. There jackson, solved the problem

[@erockthehorse]

Studio forced him to make it a trilogy

[@kaylubproductions4517]

@@erockthehorse I don't know much about this kind of stuff, but at that point I would do what Respawn Entertainment did with EA for Apes Legends: put my foot down and say "This is how we're going to do it." After the success Jackson had with the Lord Of The Rings trilogy you would think he would have some creative leeway.

[@BeukendaalMason]

Honestly, Just Write is correct at the beginning of his presentation. The only thing the movies really needed was to present more time with each of the Dwarves and present more of their background, motivation, etc. This way you knew them better, invest in them more, and at the end feel a bigger payoff and sorrow as Bilbo leaves.

[@SkintSNIPER262]

Well, they had 3.5 years of pre production for LOTR, and only 3 months for The Hobbit. The Studio was rushing them. watch all the BTS for The Hobbit. Jackson seems so stressed and exhausted. Constantly thinking on the fly due to lack of time. He was forced to rely on a lot of post productions.

[@sadenb]

Trilogy wasn't the problem. The Hobbit has enough material for 3 movies. It is the characters that were written poorly and the script was not in the right place.

[@mizumuncher5809]

I feel like if you pat attention then all the characters do have a personality that you can see except for like 2, but there are constant scenes of the dwarf who cant hear and the dwarf on the boat who hogged all the money when they had to pay bard. Also there are 13 of them and they cant all have screen time on top of the elves and bilbo and gandalf and thorin and the dragon and the council and sauron

[@larrote6467]

they could've had 13 dwarves, but only really concentrate on 3 or 4 and the rest are more like extras

[@buckacre1348]

I loved all three movies in The Hobbit trilogy. It is obvious that Jackson respects both Tolkien's work and his movie audience.

[@Landibert]

Guys, I see no one talking about the real issue here. Why are there three humans between the dwarves? I mean c'mon nothing with this little beard can be a dwarf... Honestly, for some reason this is one of the things that irk me the most.

[@TKDLION]

You are not the only one that was bothered by that.

[@86upsmaya]

Landibert true. As soon as i saw Thorin i was like,where is his beard?

[@gittevandevelde2208]

Fili and Kili are relatively young in Dwarf therms, maybe their beard isn't 'full grown' yet (or they're secretly half-human) for Thorin...Just got to make the leader look hot, I guess.

[@adamalucard4655]

the time and liberty Peter Jackson had with preparation of Hobbit and LOTR just are completely uncomparable.He was considered as a last resort by wb.He basically did everything he could within the given time window.

[@fukurouyoru5929]

Here's a thought: what if the first movie had been used to establish the characters of the dwarven company? Being 'The Hobbit', you could still use Bilbo writing his book as a framing device, but insert an entire arc of Thorin meeting with Gandalf and gathering the other dwarves for an attempt on Erebor. It would allow time to get to know each one of them by introducing the party dynamic piecemeal, so that when ALL of them show up at Bag End the audience knows exactly the storm that has just befallen Bilbo Baggins. Rather than inserting meaningless filler to fluff the existing story, you could expand the narrative earlier and actually have the new material contribute something instead of getting in the book's way.

[@MrMoleHole]

That could be interesting, the only problem is that the dwarves, as they exist in the story of the Hobbit, are not at all integral to the story. They are just there on the journey and do not affect the plot at all. The main characters who are integral to the story are Bilbo, Gandalf and Thorin.

[@701delbronx8]

Make your own hobbit movie then

[@kyranblack5162]

The gold and smaug were the most interesting aspects of the movies. I was so hyped for desolation of smaug.

[@christinayerbury6746]

I think Smaug. Was underdone. In the movie he is like the end boss.

[@volpeverde6441]

I am fire....I am death....flap, flap....

[@Kiezkollege]

Second in command does not mean best friend.

[@Usammityduzntafraidofanythin]

I didn't really mind the dwarves, but the lack of environmental shots is what gets me. Everything feels really closed in. Hardly any horizon shots, and it looks like the ponies are on a golf course during green grass scenes.