Why the Moral Ambiguity of Rings of Power makes no sense.

[@matthewkuchinski1769]

Anyone who truly read Lord of the Rings would know that while the battle of good versus evil took center stage, there was indeed plenty of nuance throughout the books. For example, the peoples known as the Wild Men and the Haradrim were both contrary to the perception of pure evil that Sauron and Saruman's other legions (the Orcs, the Easterlings, the Corsairs of Umbar, the half men half orcs) actually entailed. With the Wild Men Saruman used his famous powerful voice and the long-held grievances of the Wild Men towards Rohan to compel them to join his army. And when the surviving Wild Men that were in Saruman's host that attacked Helm's Deep were captured, the humane treatment they received from the Rohirrim absolutely stunned them and caused them to question Saruman's lies. This then causes some of the Wild Men to offer their services to Rohan to allow them to take a secret route that Sauron did not know about so as to launch the decisive charge that would turn the tide at Pelennor Fields. And in the story of the Haradrim, it is revealed through Tolkien's work that they splintered over the cause of Sauron. While some were indeed willing participants in his campaigns, plenty were actually intent on resisting him. However, with the deaths of many of their leaders and people, those who resisted were conscripted into Sauron's ranks.

[@LaffeeTaffeeGG]

Tolkien does say that the orcs could maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe be redeemed somehow in some way, but it's definitely not because they have families and just want to live in peace. It would take some insane moral gymnastics and a huge amount of development, but because Orcs are a part of Middle-Earth, they're subject to Middle-Earth's rules which are inherently good, which does mean that Orcs have a snowball's chance in the fires of Mount Doom to -be good- not be entirely evil.

[@bad-people6510]

A catholic denying a path to redemption would be literally heresy, so he had to take extreme lengths to push them all into the evil corner to begin with.

[@kostantza1]

I know, I think people often miss that Tolkien was thinking in fundamentally spiritual and theological ways, and that he thought they could be redeemed by their ultimate creator (since Morgoth twisted but not created) was meant existentially and metaphysically, not on the actual physical world, where they were unambiguously evil.

[@GreatGreebo]

I completely *agree* with the points you make in this video. Thank you for a well done video. Cheers!

[@kostantza1]

Well said. Very well said indeed. Imagine if Adar couldn't help but love his "children" (I think it's implied he's their progenitor, like, fathered them...yeah, best not think of that one, Morgoth would presumably be evil enough to) and he's the one who tries through evil means to get a home for them, believing they'll be able to live peacefully between them if they're not hunted or enslaved like they've always been....and his children end up betraying him exactly because Sauron appeals to their baser nature which Adar is too blinded by paternal love to see. Now, *that* would have been both tragic and orc-like, and Sauron could get to be an actual manipulator instead of the marginally smarter person among dumb as bricks people.

[@justthinkingoutloud2538]

I made a video on my channel about Rings of Power's treatment of the orcs, both how it compares to what Tolkien wrote, and how it fails on its own. You made similar points as I did, while also giving a fantastic broader analysis of Tolkien's themes and how Rings of Power sabatoges them. Fantastic video!

[@ejoshcoron]

7:53 love the grinch reference 😂

[@jessicapinto3817]

Don't be hasty, Master Meriadoc. You weren't and it shows, good essay on the topic! *Edit: and great closing line

[@Stryder231]

Orcs did reproduce in the way of Eru, and Sauron did aspire for perfection.

[@averagecarpentryskills7148]

You know why LOTRs is superior? When I think of Sean Bean in Fellowship of the Ring I think Boromir. When I think of Sean Bean in Game of Thrones I think Sean Bean (even though he was one of the better characters).

[@Mgauge]

It always bothers me when writers try to make villains "sympathetic" by letting them get a little teary after slaughtering civilians or making the "heroes" act a little jerky sometimes. It shows such a shallow, self-centered understanding of morality and a lack of self-awareness on the part of the writers understanding of what they actually communicated.

[@Aeg0r]

3 subscribers? I'm 4th lol! This channel will have tens of thousands of subscribers, quote this.

[@hajtomjones4077]

5th hahaha!

[@lp6702sv]

​@@hajtomjones407714th!

[@bad-people6510]

104th Moving. (It was at about 40 when I checked yesterday)

[@Z3sty_St4r]

Well, orcs got to have families - I mean, Bolg was the son of Azog. That is how it is written. So Bolg had a daddy that he somewhat looked up to? LOTR - the books - have lots of nuance. Patricidal Elves, traitors and the such.

[@bring-out]

Good stuff, but you need better audio

[@calebcapson811]

Pretty sure they reproduce in the novels. Also Adar is likely one of the 1st elves that was tortured and morphed into an orc, hence his dark elf features, and the reverence from the orcs. He probably suffered more than any of them. Idk but Im not going back and reading to find out.

[@justthinkingoutloud2538]

The point is not that orcs don't reproduce, but most animals in the real world reproduce without a loving family unit. The real problem is that the orcs don't love war and violence, the very trait that defines them in the books, and just want to settle down in peace, even while seeming to revel in war in every battle scene. They can't even be consistent while ruining the lore.

[@MrWhiskers65]

Comment for the algorithm

[@paul1720]

Just what youtube needs; another reactionary bottomfeeder.

[@solarboi3984]

You 13% that’s pushing this trash agenda and desecrating Tolkien’s legacy is the real bottom freeders. The show is down views 50% 7 percent MORE than the 1st season. Idiots like you being able to vote is more scary than the Sauron in this show!!

[@solarboi3984]

L

[@LinRaN_DanceR]

Quote from your intro: ''...but some would accuse it of being very shallow that a black and white morality is inherently less complex than one of moral ambiguity... I (...) disagree and honestly these ideas aren't that hard to disprove...'' - all 12 minutes i was waiting that you can approve WHY black and white morality better than moral ambiguity. Nothing. You just said that LOTR was created in black-white morale way and if you try to add moral ambiguity above it, the story will be broken. I have expected some opinion why B&W morale better (more complex, more interesting) than moral ambiguity. I'd love to see less Black&White basement for so great world as Middle-Earth. And lacking of argumentation why evil is evil except this pure-nature makes LOTR in my eyes less complex and interesting. I think its just easier to build a story with B&W morale. I'd love to know your opinion from this perspective! And thanks for video, that was really interesting enough to watch untill the end. I have enjoyed picture and thoughts.

[@patrickhackett7881]

Most of the appeal of LOTR is its unusually well written and nuanced black and white morality.